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Warhammer 2 Lore of Magic Tier Ranking
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ส.ค. 2024
- Tier list of all lores of magic in Total War: Warhammer 2. Check out link below to post your own ranking. tiermaker.com/...
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*I did take the passives into account but didn't mention them because the wiki doesn't and their impact doesn't really change how good or bad most of the spells are. since this was an hour long video i didn't want it to be an hour and 10 minutes. Sometimes I have to omit some details or else the video just becomes too long. I actually really didn't want this video to be an hour but talking about every single spell just took a while*
One hour long video is not that bad, especially about so complicated topic
@@Ax_Dj0 Completely agree, this is one very justified hour given the depth you went into. I feel a 30 minutes video would not have been informative enough and thus a bit disappointing. With the 1h, every lore got a bit of a spotlight, which is great. I mean, this hour was packed with information and advice, there are other content creators who do 40 minutes video on a single CA hint...
I think you just made the definitive Guide to Magic.
But Death and Wild passives are kinda good, basically mini-Arcane Conduit for 25 seconds.
The Heaven ones is kinda weird though, given that school doesn't have any anti-air spells
Thanks for the explanation. Was sitting for like 40 minutes wondering why you're ignoring the passives and then heard the note at the end xD
I have to say, though, that the passives seem to be integral to the viability of some lores - specifically Shield of Saphery comes to mind, which combos well with the spammable spells like Hand of Glory or Apotheosis.
Speaks volumes for me that I almost exclusively play Skaven and I completely forgot the lore of stealth existed until you brought it up.
So lore of stealth is sealthy who would have guessed 😂... rat ninjas OP🐀✊
Yeah, I admit that I have not heard of it, lol
It’s so good at stealth you forgot it existed
@@mcmarkmarkson7115 funnily enough Eshin is likely the Skaven faction that benefits least from their own lore since they already have plenty of stealth (then again I suppose the same could be said of Pestilens and poison)
I ignored it completely until starting an Eshin campaign, and discovered just how weak the lore is firsthand.
Legend you absolute mad lad, you keep pumping those tier lists and we can't get enough of them, keep up the great job! Hope you're doing well and having fun during your break!
Don’t want to insult. Such comments look like bootlicking and as a try to exalt the author, which doesn’t seem to be reciprocal, especially with such fame of him
No u mad lad
@@Kelerod no u salty
@@Kelerod Literally no need for this comment at all.
@@Kelerod You might be right, but can you elaborate?
Just to be clear - you can tier list every gameplay related aspect of this game for months on end and I'll keep coming back happy. It turns out this is the best way for you to get all your game knowledge across in an organised manner. I find myself look forward to your uploads while you're on the tier list kick!
Lore of metal: D tier. BALTAZAR GELT, SUPREME PATRIARCH: SS
So satisfying to get 1WoM Searing Doom on Gelt. Wouldn't blame the AI if it auto-surrendered any sieges Gelt rocked up to.
I do feel like metal is better than D tier though. I feel he undervalues it because he compares generic casters to Gelt and also just rarely ever recruits metal casters to give it a chance.
It should almost count as two separate entries in the list for Gelt and NotGelt.
Glittering robes for 0 cost is also pretty good, especially because you spend a lot of time fighting Vampire counts with weak AP.
Gelt's really amazing, isn't he? Probably only matched by Teclis, but that...nah, I think he's even better and more fun than Teclis.
@@goransekulic3671 Definitely more fun, to me. There's something about the juxtaposition of a wan elf mage on a mystical phoenix, commanding coruscating arcs of lightning across the battlefield, being just as effective as dude with a gold face flying around on a sky horse and slapping things with magic hot metal.
Reminder that Comet of Cassandora was always good, even before they fixed the bug.
It always killed the enemy and did a lot of damage, but the only issue was that the kills weren't assigned to the Wizard, so you couldn't visually see how much the Wizard killed and felt like it didn't kill anything. It always killed things, but now it properly shows that it does
You should do a Tier list of all Legendary Lords on the same list
You are on the same level as Tyrion.
He done it already, but for each race not all
Even better better would be a tier list of the same magic type caster LLs (Morathi/Malektih for dark, Tehenuahin/Malagor/Durthu for beasts, Azhag/Mannfred/Arkhan for death, etc)
I feel like Legend is enjoying these more than live streaming, great content without people pecking his head with dumb questions. Keep up the great work!
He probably gets much better statistics from these than the 6 hour runs. Takes way less effort than having to answer the same question for those 6 hours.
Also, the more Legends enjoys what he does, the more I enjoy it
@@guyincognito1406 Also analyzing and reflecting stuff is usually more fun than repeating the same steps over and over again. Legends probably has 5k+ hours in TWW2 nowawdays, he's bound to be a bit tired of it.
honestly i hope he never goes back to streaming at all. I feel like he's been enjoying himself much more doing just these kind of videos, and i also prefer to see he doing those things without having to stop mid-sentence and read aloud some repetitive jokes or a question that got asked like a million times over. I would rather watch his 3 hours saving a disaster campaign as he rambling to himself rather than 30 minutes of him livestreaming.
I think that is just the power of editing. Legends videos are great but his live streams are painful. He just goes on about viewer numbers way too much. We get it that it is his income but it would be nice to not hear about work when watching streams to relax.
I'm very interested to see this one. Well done, Legend.
Personal favorites: Life, Fire, High, and Light.
Vampire for me for a looooooonnng shot
About 1000 hours for warhammer1 and 2500 for warhammer 2 and I still really really really hate humans, maybe that’s why
Ps: other than markus and fey
Shadow, Light and Fire. High Magic for aesthetic
Dark magic, no doubt.
my favorites are fire, fire, fire and FIRE!
Another thing that makes pit of shades amazing is that it pins the targets it affects, as a dark elf player that just pairs so well with all the ark abilities
I also think both visually and audibly, it is the most satisfying spell to cast in the game. The way the sound drops out just before the screams of plebs fills the air... magnificent.
Plus you can cast it on walls during sieges!
and pit of shades doesn't move so you're not screwed by RNG movement like other vortex spells. It's an absolute blob killer.
I haven't used pit of shades that much, but Talons of Night in warhammer 3 is incredible for a similar reason. 100% armour piercing, MASSIVE AoE, lasts a good time, and best of all, it both pins units, and 9 times out of 10 the AI will walk more units into it, just like with net of amyntok. The fact that Miao Ying can cast it whilst in dragon form is absolutely incredible.
Lore of the Wild 1:56
Lore of Life 3:36
Lore of High Magic 5:23
Lore of Dark Magic 7:19
Lore of Ruin 10:44
Lore of Plague 14:06
Lore of Stealth 16:47
Lore of Nehekhara 19:06
Lore of the Deep 22:52
Little Waagh! 25:45
Big Waagh! 28:22
Lore of Light 30:40
Lore of Heavens 33:50
Lore of Fire 36:32
Lore of Death 39:35
Lore of Vampires 42:25
Lore of Metal 45:28
Lore of Shadows 48:39
Lore of Beasts 51:43
Runic Magic 54:50
MVP^
20:37 You can buff constructs with the Lore of Nehekhara, not only skeletons. Buffing Necrosphinxes, Khemrian Warsphinxes, Hierotitans, Bone Giants and Ushabti Greatbows is effective. Not saying that this lore is an amazing one, but you seem to be a bit too focused on damage spells and underestimate other spells quite a bit.
He's never considered buffs useful. But the area effect buff spells on archers, game long, is devastating. Rhuin, for example.
Its a bit of a hard one to rate to be 100% fair since tomb king armies are so varied. You cant really rate how good it is in their armies beyond base skele spam since their armies are insanely varied so in some armies nehek magic is decent in other ones its really not. Light magic is never wrong in any army so I guess a fair argument is you can always just safely use light magic with as good if not better results instead for tk so there is no reason to ever use nehek magic.
@@jamiefenwick8359 well like you said yourself it depends on the type of TK army you're building. Meaning in some cases there is absolutely a reason to use Nehek.
@@Ebb0Productions the issue is you have a very limited number(~12) of wizard heroes that tomb kings can recruit so hiring a lore of Nehekara wizard when you could be getting lore of light or shadows doesn't make much sense. If they had a max wizard capacity like most other factions of 100 it wouldn't be as big of a deal.
And how isn't the mapwide heal every time you cast a 3 wind weapon dmg increase buff on your strong fighter lord really juicy? I just don't get it
Thanks for the list! One minor point for the video, recast time should be considered. Some spells are meh, but you can cast them over and over, some do huge damage but have 2 minute recast timers.
Yeah, that difference is what puts Gelt so far above other Metal casters. He can call down th shrapnel every few seconds.
I would say you are severely undervaluing the Lore of the Deeps, which is my pick for strongest school in the game. Lets go through it!
1: Spiteful shot, its not for you infantry. Its for your artillery! Vampire coast have the same mortars and canons as the Empire, with the exception that they are cheaper, easier to recruit. (tier 2&3 compared to empires tier 3&4) But they have worse accuracy and cant hit things at range unless they have chevrons or this spell. Overcasting it means it last for 72 seconds and cost 4-6 winds. Not bad on a new lord that cant spend the winds better. Great on Queen Bess.
Also dont fear overcasting spells with Vampire coast. I'm fairly sure that the damage from miscasting is blocked by armor and VC lords get 120 armor with a mount. 70 without one. Never had a problem with it.
2: Tidecall does more damage when overcasted than the Heavens and Plague version of the spell. But it has a bit smaller AOE. It is also cheaper. You can get it down to 6 winds overcasted. Not a bad price against a bunched up enemy.
3: Fog is ok. -attack is probably the best type of debuff you can get and it lasts a fair while. Dont think the coast really needs it though. Spend your lvl up points on better spells.
4: Crabs are amazing! But they only last a short while so if they exist to tank enemies then they will be unsummoned long before they are killed. Its a good spell, but zombies are more cost efficient for the purpose.
5: Kraken's Pull. This Spell is AMAZING! But it does not do what you'd think it would. It is a huge stationary vortex that does small damage over time and also sucks in anything it hits in to its center. Why is that great? Because if a squad have some of its men sucked in to it then the rest of the squad will wait outside the vortex so that they can rejoin the lost troops! It essentially the Net spell from the Lore of Light! Only it last longer (20 sec vs 32 sec) and does damage as well. Also a -45% speed debuff for when its over. And the damage is mostly from the explosion at the end of the spell so the'll get stuck until the end.
A bit lower AOE and longer cast time though. But after the change to AOE-debuff targeting that does not mater as much anymore. The net have to hit the enemy flag to proc, but this spell only have to hit some units in the squad. (Dont know how many though).
6: Vangheist's Revenge: It is wind of death. Whats not to like! Comparable damage and lower cost, but it has longer cast time so make sure that you have pinned the enemies you are targeting so that they cant move out of the way.
I watched a video awhile back done by zerchoivich or whatever his name is testing the accuracy increases and for the most part it’s very negligible.
@@TeaserTravlein can still be usefull since youll be casting in the aproaching fase which means you will get the WoM back anyway.
I literally made a post on the warhammer 2 forums exactly like this. lore of deeps is SO undervalued, im glad someone shares my opinion of it.
Accuracy for queen bess let u pick about 4-8 shots with INCREDIBLE accuracy, unless enemy will specially avoid it.
U just need to shoot only in infantry, not monsters or cav. Each shot hits like a comet of cassadore - obliterate about 70% of unit if shot will be perfect. And that spell let u shot perfectly from 350 meters in any squad ;)
It's a great lore for sure, summon crabs biggest problem is they block all the gunners that you will likely roll with, so its less useful than other gun factions + summons (Skaven). It has the damage and utility like vampire, but lacks the healing, so you end up having to bring a vampire caster with you anyway and that's really the problem, when you have vampire magic, you don't need lore of deeps.
Dark magic is great because dark elves can't heal themselves easily otherwise. Having a pegasus or dragon mounted lord that can recover health can be really useful, and if it's Morathi, she's a doomstack on her own due to it
Yeah that's my one criticism of the video, he evaluates lore of the little waaagh pretty explicitly based on the Lord mount that makes it cheaper, saying that this is a super cheap spell with low impact and that is a spell with low impact and it works by casting them over and over again.
Soulstealer is an amazing spell to have on a black dragon, even on a slightly weaker one and one of the few spells that deals passable damage to stacked SEMs.
Also unrelated to soulstealer swords is one of the few first tier vortex spells and for that it imo deals more than decent damage even when it isn't overcast. I vastly prefer it over burning head which imo always hits a bit weak unless you're scorching rats. It sucks vs armor, but it's fairly cheap with a low cd for a vortex and one of the spells that even not overcast can easily decimate archers and if you overcast it is is decent in chokepoint situations or against blobbs. To boot the one thing you don't really care about as DE is heavily armored infantry, which is the one thing swords is worse against than heavy vortex spells like purple sun.
@@RevanofCorriban well, he rated the little Waagh based on the Spiderweb Shrine because its the only Little Waagh Caster you should get, Orc Shamans with Big Waagh are just the better choice for your Hero Capacity, so its actually fair to rate the little Waagh based on the only caster that you'll actually use it with.
Im surprised little waagh is above shadow tbh. Shadow is quite strong, and its worth noting that pit of shades is one of the few spells that can be cast on a wall.
Both pit of shades and plague can do that and they won me so many sieges.
Little Waagh is good because the goblin shaman lord, not the hero version. Half cost spells on the spider shrine.
Little Waagh doesn't have as good spells as shadow, but you can get them so cheap on a generic lord that it's just way more efficient
i always pick fire if it's possible in that faction, regardless of their playstyle. I mean, fire goes burn, that's enough
Tempest> fire
I like that pit of shades works on walls, by design. One of the reasons i sometimes like having a shadow mage. I also like its one of the few lores that has decent damage spells in the first half of the tree with miasma and pendulum, where most lores seem bad until the second half of their trees
I like that despite how positive or negative your opinion is overall about a lore of magic, you share how you could effectively utilize each spell.
I like how you mention that Summon Manticore sound effect used to be too loud. When I casted it for the first time in my game, it was so loud, I thought my hero was summoning the ultimate doom from the very depths of hell!
27:23 I actually have a lot of fun with Night Shroud. If you grab a bunch of trolls, blob them up, overcast NS, you can then just rush at the AI, and by the time the spell is over, the enemy is already getting wrecked (considering you're not playing on a very large map obviously).
lore of stealth might be more useful for thrott then for eshin, the ability to speed up and hide your monsters a bit is really great and the disruption that comes from the shadow vortex is perfect for getting your monsters out of dangerous piles of enemies
Problem for me is that the Eshin Sorcerer can't really keep up with the pack even if he's Fleet-footed
@@alexeyalexandrov7583 Yep, I've tried to use eshin sorcerers in brood horror doomstack and i think the spells would go with it pretty alright if they could keep up. they should pull something out of their ass to get eshin sorcerers a really fast mount. none of the other heroes should though
Eshin Sorcerers are weird.
On the one hand, I can't think of a single time where I really felt like he really supported or brought out the best in an army, or helped that army win.
On the other hand, I think only Gelt may have ever single-handedly won more battles that I really didn't deserve than the Eshin Sorcerer. Those little ninja stars just put in so much work, despite seeming like such a "bleh" spell.
@@yes-yes8632 Yea, I found Plague Priests are much better as casters for Brood Horror stacks: 1) they an get up to ~80 speed (Fleet-footed + Banner of Swiftness + Speed buff from melee line + Foe Seeker) 2) They have a very large Mortis engine mount that can push through enemy infantry and escape 3) They have summons which also help to escape
@@alexeyalexandrov7583 Yes. Even without any of the speed stacking or mount they are better because plague is a much better spell than anything an eshin sorcerer has.
61 MINUTES OF PURE ENTERTAINMENT AND INFORMATION!
1 hour Magic tier-list??? holy moly yes!!!
Imagine when the Lore of Tzeench comes. The upgraded pink and blue Lore of Fire
I hope it's batshit insane and does a lot with the theme of change.
Ideas:
Spell to gain control of an enemy unit for some amount of time or switch one of yours for one of theirs.
Spell that teleports an enemy unit somewhere random on the map.
@@BobMcBobJr Take temporary control of the strongest enemy unit, fight with it for a short time, press the retreat button.
Lore of Slaanesh will rip enemy clothes off to reduce their leadership.
Ironically, Lore of Tzeentch actually was one of the worst discimplines both in 40k and FB most of editions, being wayyy to unreliable, hard to cast and just weird.
The Tier List I have been waiting for...
Thank you; I finally can figure out which magic to choose.
For me, it wasn't necessarily which to focus on but which to completely avoid. I have thousands of hours in the game and it cleared up a lot with him going into the nuts and bolts of it. Some of the lores look really good on paper but in game they just suck.
In one Cylostra campaign I got about 400 kills with a single overcast Vangheist's Revenge and instantly went from losing the battle to having won
Thanks for this one! I'll always love the fire magic the effects are so well done
Best Lore is Skaven and Caster is Ikkit Claw: "I cast Atomic Missle!"
In multiplayer, Tempest and Soul Stealer are really powerful and brought all the time. It is interesting seeing the usefulness of spells in SP vs MP
in MP cheap buffs and debuffs are also excellent while easily dodgeable, high dmg spells are worthless. it really is a different beast
thank God, I love these tier lists and this one is the one I've been looking forward the most to
Although I agree that Eshin sorcerers aren't worth recruiting as a general rule, the fact that they can stealth can make them useful both in fully stealth Eshin armies, and in Brood Horror stacks.
I tried adding an Eshin sorcerer to my weapon team army and I enjoy the result. Being able to disrupt enemy's front lines as they closed in was fun.
Man do i love eshin magic in the beast army with thrott, it does all the things , prevents then being shot, makes them tanky, gets them out of engagements. I think eshin is better in it's niche than any other school =)
I pity the rune magic, they so needed more love on it during the last update, they needed the last skill to be something like the rune of spite, and the other buffs to be area buffs, also I totally agree, why more armour on troops that are loaded with it, better some ward protection even if its much less, its sad as there wont be any changes for years for Dwarfs if any changes will come at all for them anymore in game 3 and even if they are still a fun faction for me to play, they are not one of the top factions by far and rune magic could have been the thing that makes em better.
For the rest I rly love fire, death and life magic.
Rune of spite as a skill would be insanely op. Otherwise though, yeah, they kinda got shafted. Which is unfortunate, because on the beta it looked like it'd be great.
@@Loj84 the current rune of spite is good because its on the whole time, a spell would be active for 10 or 15 sec, it would be an improved flock of doom at best, still pales compared to many other magic outside, so it would not be op.
@@mcmarkmarkson7115 rune magic is Dwarf magic and it sucks big time, I use runesmiths only for the passive missile dmg, I love playing with Dwarfs, but they are for sure one of the worse races in game, and you notice it more and more the higher the difficulty you play.
@@mcmarkmarkson7115 Dwarfs are not amazing. Look at the faction ranking, I agree with where L put Dwarf compared to other factions. Not the worse, but nowhere close to amazing.
@@mcmarkmarkson7115 dwarfs sure as hell aren't amazing. I feel like people only say this if they don't play dwarfs themselves, because the AI dwarfs are strong as fuck. That doesn't translate to playing them, though. Dwarfs are one of the bottom 5 races. Not as bad as chaos or norsca, not so bad that they can't be fun to play, but still weak.
Took a look at the title. Then I looked at the video length. Wow. A legend, truly. Can’t wait to watch it when I have time!
Gelt is an amazing example of "Bad thing good if cheap"
I lay awake at night, dreaming of a Wood Elf tier list.
I wanna see Legend play a skaven campaign where he is only allowed to use Lore of Stealth.
Lol
any magic is still better than no magic, i think legend said it before
He would discover overcasted black whirlwind is actually insane if used right.
Guys against dwarfs, Eshin sorc with stalk are fucking 10 out of 10, usually pins them while u pommel them with plague catapults and rattling guns
Deliverance of Itza magic. Tier. S++. I heard you like explosions so we made three spells that blow people up.
It's litteraly awesome (as in "I'm in awe"). Totally worth the one hour mark to go into that much depth. I don't have a lot to say about the final results, except that sadly I use Lore of Stealth with Eshin due to my fetishism for themes.
If I may, would it be possible to add timestamps for each of the lores? I know it's a lot of work but it would be really useful to rewatch the parts you need before a playthrough without having to search the lores you need.
The tier list series is becoming my favourite, I didn't think it could beat the disaster battles. :)
for the lore of fire, the fire cloak is useful when your caster gets in melee and you want to avoid taking too much damage and fireball is amazing in a siege if you have a flying caster because you can clean the walls with it and easily get 50 kills on average with it (same goes for the amber spear, and both can used on the ground if your caster is on foot or horseback too)
those winds are admittedly better spent on just casting more fire spells, most lores of fire users have a mount which allows them to avoid melee entirely if they desire it
It has a thoroughly average, maybe even sub-average, effect, but it's used to keep your passive going(Legend really shouldn't overlook these, they are much more powerful than their TWH 1 variants - in fact, I think that Fire should be nerfed because it pretty much always gets multiplied by 1,25 or 1,2). Or to setup your passive before you nuke. Aqshy is so nicely designed, I love it!
@@Adierit it's a very situational spell but it can have its use if you make a micro mistake or if you see that one of your heroes or unit isn't faring too well and you need it to hold a bit longer. It's a very cheap spell so if you don't have much wind and can't wait a minute or two to cast damaging spells again it's quite useful
Use the fire cloak to extend your passive's time being active during Flaming Sword of Rhuin so that your units are applying fire damage to fire weak units for longer.
Using Warp Lightning in a Siege right as the AI exit a siege tower is insanely OP
1) I love your Tier-videos. 2) even with a LOT of hours in the game, this very video still held some valuable information on magic in WH2 for me that i wasn't aware of. Thank you for this great video! keep em coming!
Great video, love the detail on every spell and why you liked/disliked them. My only disagreements are that Shadows, Beasts, and Nehekhara should each be 1 tier higher - Pit of Shades is absolutely bonkers when the enemy is stuck in to your line (since it does massive damage and doesn't move) and since it's damage is per-model you can bait a large blob around a melee lord/hero with decent magic resist and just plop it down on the character. Curse of Arnrahir is similarly very useful for keeping your line units alive in between Flock castings, and since the Beasts passive improves recharge rate and Flock is so cheap, you don't miss the winds in any but marathon battles. Nehekhara magic I'd put at C tier for it's passive - throw down Resurrect from your lord so your units are full health, then a cheap buff to rez some units post battle. Mid-battle they're more useful for King, Prince, and Statue buffing (though in early-game Settra play, your starting Tomb Guard with Djaf's will absolutely delete a savage orc lord, on foot or on boar) and Dessication is, like Arnrahir, good at keeping your line alive so your archers can do their thing. Ptra's is also a highly underrated spell IMO - the base spell boosts archer damage to even more ludicrous levels, and the overcast effect on reload time makes it best on siege weapons (skull catapult, specifically). Is it the flashiest lore in the game? no. But, it meshes really well with everything in the TK roster.
Nehekhara passive sucks though. What's a pitiful, if map wide, 30pt heal gonna change? This has got to be nerfed due to multiplayer concerns.
@@goransekulic3671 The point is that it's a 30hp heal for all your undead units, and rez units if they're full. Your undead infantry have between 59-82hp/model depending on the unit. So, you throw Resurrect (from your Lord's red line) into a blob of your damaged infantry post-battle to get their model hp to full, then start throwing cheap casts down to spam healing. Nehekhara spells are dirt cheap during battle as well - If you're spamming Djaf's that's 2/3 winds per cast, Neru's and Ptra's are 5/6. If you're just cycling through those 3, that's 12/15 winds for 90hp x 20units = 1800hp every ~22 seconds, which is a free Earth Blood equivalent on top of throwing out more damage and keeping your lord alive longer. (edit bc I suck at math)
Is it earth-shatteringly powerful? no. Easily cheeseable? also no. It's a very nice dessert though, given that you're going to be using the winds anyways and TK doesn't have access to Lore of Vamps or Lore of Life. I'm just waiting for TK to finally get a lord pack that gives us our Liche High Priest lords with Casket mounts.
Add to your list of underrated lores high, metal, and rune.
High: If Death is S rank, largely driven off of Wind of Death, then High should not be sitting at C when Fiery Convocation is mechanically outright better save for the following case: overcast vs low armor units.
Metal: If Fire is S rank, driven off of flame storm and piercing bolts of burning then metal should not be at C rank when, on a normal wizard, golden hounds and searing doom are roughly equal power respectively. The great difference between fire and metal is big vs precise. On that note; the idea that golden hounds is more likely to turn into your lines is confirmation bias: flame storm and gold hounds have the exact same turning logic from the most recent spell data covering that I could find.
Rune: Almost everything said here I found to be off base.
First: Rune of negation on a normal runesmith (not a runelord) got turned into a single target with a bit short of double potency; saying it lost potency and got turned into a single target is comparing it to a runelord, and ignoring that in that context it got a 33% duration increase. Still a nurf and a significant one, but well short of what it was portrayed to be. Also rune of slowness was pretty overlooked considering gatekeeper's hammer is a thing and comboing bless with filth and suppression was something Legend was excited about. I don't know if there is a max -speed %, but if there isn't then dwarves now have a net, even if it is single target.
Second: Using only 1 rune is a pretty bad misplay on rune magic: Not a limited resource, all runes have the same individual cooldown and shared cooldown and said shared cooldown is exactly half of the individual rune cooldown. Rune magic gains very little from optimal casts: Explosions have comparatively weak gains from clustering, and buff need for optimal casts comes out of its limited magic supply. Notice how legend tends to use foe seeker and deadly onslaught: Not on cooldown? Put it on cooldown. As a result a minimum of 2 runes should be in use, which kills the "not worth casting" idea put forth.
Third: Most people will only have 1 or 2 runesmiths. Seems like sticking to old habits and not thinking the changes through to me. Runesmiths are now extremely common given that they come from minor settlements and you get 2 from major settlements. Thanes have taken the slot of the rarest hero since they are 1/major settlement and engineers you want in with the firing line. If you are going to use 4 plague priests to stall, then 4 dwarven heroes to stall also seems like the reasonable amount. Given relative frequency I'd expect that to be 3 runesmiths and 1 thane. Depending on lord choice that makes for 3 or 4 casters of rune magic in an army.
@@Mythralblade04 Yes and good luck actually making something out of that. It's ok in multi where every edge counts, but in campaign? Yeah, like...no. But at least it's better than their de facto mechanic(Realm of Souls or something). Now, that sucks! I even tried fixing it, but it needs a full redesign.
@@calebreinhold6987 tbh? I took some things he says for granted. Like, I thought DE Dread Knights had basic Rampage only to find out, no they don't. And they are actually quite decent melee cav(it's just his masochist difficulty, fuck that). Now I really can't wait for that Hag Graef Vortex! Regardless:
High: Wind is Vampire, not Death. Death sucks lol. As for Quaysh, it is a n interesting Lore. Protoboard for Lore of Nehekhara imo. And it should be at least one tier below Vampire because Vampire is better overall. But yeah, it is B- to me.
Metal: Here he ran into some serious consistency issues. So, it's ok to rank Lil Waaagh(a thoroughly sub average Lore if I might add) off the fact that Shaman Lord gets an Arachnorok, but it's not ok to rate Chamon off "Welcome to Estalia...". I mean...yikes? But yeah. Chamon and Ghur(Beasts) are as average as they come. It's just that Ghur is more reliable. Both are B tier. Unless Gelt or Malagor(dhar'armiu!) in which case they are like SSS+. But I rate the power of spells, not of Lords or Heroes who wield them, useful as a guideline both for Campaign and for Custom Battle.
Rune: Maybe so. But the Rune of Negation "tweak" pissed me off so hard, I almost gave up on Dwarfs! What a mistake that would've been(=no Thorek + Vortex, no Ungrim...yikes!). It's just disappointing right now and I prefer to go like 6+6+6 + Hero + LL(it's just so thematic most of time!). Maybe 5+5+5 + 4xHero + LL would be better for rework Dwarfs. What do you think about Oath+Steel on Rangers or on Slayers?
I have wanted someone to tell me what to recruit for lores of magic for so long! Thanks Legend for making the game more simple to play.
But seriously, another great video. Really helps me understand mechanically how magic works on Ultra scale as well with higher difficulties. I didn't know Flock of Doom was actually a good spell. I just always saw it doing a little bit of damage so I ignored it
Blob the enemy up and it’s amazing
I think something people gloss over when comparing it to vortex or wind spells is that it's consistent. Every unit that is in the circle when you cast it, even if it's just a few models of an infantry unit, gets affected by the full damage of the DOT. Very easy to ensure it does its worth in every cast.
A lot of great information, got much insight especially on the races I don't play very often. There is just one tiny thing I disagree with: I used to play quite a lot of Dark Elves and I used Dark Magic a lot actually. It was always my second caster in any army providing support for the main fire wizard. The effect of Power of Darkness is entirely negligible if you cast it on Hydras (due to regen) or the sorceress herself (flys around anyway and doesn't want to get into combat, can use soulstealer afterwards). Doombolt is good against artillery (with which the DE can have problems with) and soulstealer is ok for the damage it does (your main caster will usually have better options though). Word of pain is just there to help your Hydra or lord against something big. But the main mechanic here is Power of Darkness to pump out more spells with your - in most cases - Fire Sorceress.
It's not a great lore, but I think it is far more useful to the Dark Elves than the other lores in C tier are for the races that can use them (you don't need High Magic neither as Lizards nor HE at all, and all races that have access to Metal and Beasts have better options). That's why I would put it at B tier.
You could argue that High Magic is D Tier as Lizards and HE just have better lores to use their hero slots on, but I understand that you can get something out of it, so I don't really mind that choice.
My personal favorites from a game perspective are Life, Vampires, Pestilence, Fire, and Heavens. The most flavorful are IMHO: Vampires, Shadows, Dark, Fire, Heavens, and Death.
Probably the most useful video I have seen yet. Not the ranking, but the analysis of each spell. It would be even better if there were time stamps to pick which lore right away!
I bet that High, Death and Dark Magic will be in D or C tier.
Rune Magic definitely will be in D tier.
Rune Magic is worse than those frankly.
@@SilverforceX Rune Magic is good! And by that I mean that Rune Smiths are good. They have 4k HP and 120 armor and can tank enemy infantry like a boss because they are small and in an enemy unit of 120 only 4 of them can attack the rune smith at once. Scouts honor and all that. He is also small enough that he does not block the sight lines of the Quarrelers behind him that is doing the actual killing. The fact that he can also cast spells that cost no winds of magic on occasion is just a bonus. He also get an aura that reduces enemy armor by 15 around him. Further helping your Quarrelers.
@@chuckwood3426 That's fine but this is a tier list about the magic and not the caster himself, a death caster vampire hero fully leveled up is a melee beast, but that doesn't make the magic itself any better.
The problem with rune magic is that almost nothing is AoE, even the Master Runes.
If Rune of Slowness for example was a budget net of Amyntok and slowed down in AoE when overcasted, i would use the master rune version much more often.
Runesmiths themselves have great utility, they can tank and buff the whole army, but that's not the point here
@@chuckwood3426 OK... that doesn't make the magic itself good.... 🤦♂️
@@Regnier575 But its the only caster in the game that can cast it other thatn the lord version? And Legend gave The Litte Whaagh A-status purely based on one caster and what it could do.
Magic resistance could be good for AI, on harder difficulties rather than just melee buffs
And missile improvement
Maybe not just giving them magic resistance, since resistances are additive. Maybe if they introduced a separate difficulty damage modifier that was multiplicative, but if you just added resistances with how it works in game right now you'd throw balance out of whack even more.
simple only buff leadership and hp. best way to balance for alle damage types
@@marknum545 nope, then we would just get unbreakable skavenslaves with 20 k health on legendary
@@Leo-dt5ic wrong. currently they get buffs to lesdership ma and md. this is why magic and range outperforms melee on higher diffculties. if you keep the leadership bonus or slightly reduce it and instead buff health it would balance over all damage types
Power of Darkness I found to be useful if you stack magic resistance on a wizard, because they won't take much damage. It's also good to do that because miscasting is far more forgiving too. Using it on an infantry unit like Archers can be good because it'll kill only 1 or a handful of the entities of a healthy unit at most(assuming no magic resistance on the unit), but it will give you the magic you want.
It's also important to note that it is a better Arcane Conduit, as Arcane Conduit reads:
Great Increase to power reserves
Improved power recharge rate
Whereas Power of Darkness reads:
Greatly improved power recharge rate
Great increase to power reserves
Causes damage to self
In game, using multiplayer custom battle as an even playing field to test it, regeneration is as follows:
Normal - 1 power per 6 seconds.
Arcane Conduit - 1 power per 3 seconds.
Power of Darkness - 1 power per 1 seconds.
Both at same time - 1 power per 1 seconds.(could be it's faster than that but the game isn't saying anything or you need even faster regeneration to get the > sign.)
Good vid as always. I will say in defence of spiteful shot, it’s really nice on mortar units. I don’t know if I’d go out of my way to recruit just for that but on my cylostra campaigns it always feels like it boosts damage a fair bit
Thank you, Legend, for that rating.
I think lore of nehekhara buffs are specifically for constructs, extra damage is great to help them smash trash fast, physical resist is good to smash AP anti-large, extra archer damage is great of bone giants, caskets and great bows.
Oh my o my, this is what I've been waiting for so long. Thank you kind sir Legend.
I think this is your best video. Too few people play enough to even see all the spells in the game. Very worth while!
I like these tier lists. Keep em up
Accuracy absolutely matters on cannons and similar siege units. Buffing their accuracy with spells, abilities, or chevrons is essential to get value out of them.
Dude the amount of content you come out with is awesome. Absolutely love warhammer 2 and your vids are helping me so much in progressing into legendary difficulty.
1. If there were any hybrid combat/magic casters outside the legendary lords, Dark Magic would probably jump at least a tier up. Because it's a lore that really helps someone like Malekith or Ariel where you actually want to stick them in combat at times.
2. Flaming sword of Rhuin is super good for stopping Wraiths&syreens in the Empire vs Vampires matchup. Cheapest way to just make etheral units dissolve, and empire isn't exactly flush on magical damage units.
3. You almost always use two runes for Dwarfs since specific cooldown is half of global cooldown. For me it's almost always Speed&Wrath&Ruin. Both of those runes really complements the dwarf playstyle (since they have the best blocker units).
This one is my favourit tierlist, but i would like to see an hero-tierlist for all Factions. Nice to see how diffrent the heros might be when compared to the other heros and how lack loster some of them are.
"Tierlists are Magic"
some unknown Memetuber, probably
What i've noticed about Flock of Doom that really made me appreciate the spell is that if you combine it with ranged units it just melts anything that comes at you, maybe even faster than some of the more direct damage spells do.
I've needed a lore of magic viability list for so long thank you LoTW
I would love to see a heroes list, although that one might be too broad
Damn, I never even knew there was a spell browser like how it took me 200 hours to find out I can overcast spells😭🤯
took me 2000 hours!
I have a soft spot for Dark/Shadows mainly because Malekith and Morathi are so damn good with them.
This is one of your best vids mate, really well done, super informative, really detailed, loved it.
Kinda glossing over the passives there. Like the fire passive that makes them take more fire damage .. which pairs well with the Flaming Sword spell
It isn't that good of a list tbh. He glossed over so many possibilities that I find hard to take it seriously. Especially the crucial omission of passives. Some of which are very strong(Fire, Beast, Gold, High, Eshin for example).
do you think the skills are worth mentioning? like the one for tomb kings that heal while casting? or the one for fire that increases fire weakness?
This one is a definite MUST for me, I've always had questions about the magic and this fills in all the blanks. Thanks Legend!! ✌😁
Finally, the updated version is here. Thanks Legend!
Would ranking races heros be a good tier list?
Who has the best heros based on their usefulness in campaign and battle.
You forgot to mention the passive mapwide casting buffs each lore has.
I've had good experiences using the amber spear in hawk rider spams for putting some hurt on single entities. Their bound AoK spell just does so little to most lords/heros, being able to chunk off 20%ish of their health with an overcast has come in pretty handy. Situational, but nice to have in the back pocket.
Hey Legend, enjoying your Tier Ranking videos! I can't wait for you to come back to livestreaming, I usually catch the VOD to get me through long work nights.
The thing is Rune magic shouldn't really be compared with the other lores. They're too different.
Why please explain.
@@bisonbob9092 It doesn't use winds of magic, is only usable by dwarfs, is the only "magic" dwarfs have access to, has a shared cooldown. It's not a lore.
I appreciate your tier list of the lores of magic, but this would have been better rolled into each of the faction tier lists as hero units. Some factions do better with certain debuffs and buffs than others. Or are able to setup opportunities for winds and vortex and other damage spells better and for longer than others.
For example causing terror for gobbos is pretty useful
Pit of Shades is almost my favourite support spell. It holds the unit(s) in place while Burning Head or Flame Storm gets more kills. I like it.
Wow, first time of making it in less than a minute after upload. Anyways, glad to see Legend make his own ranking of Lores of Magic.
Surprised eshin magic got dropped so low when it combines so well with drill teams to delete entire armies while preventing melee combat. Always loved eshin magic in my playthroughs
I think it's mostly because it shares it's recruit slots with Plague.
In other factions, or with it's own recruit slots it'd get ranked higher. Whether or not you agree with ranking like that is another question. I appreciate that he doesn't rank the lore 'in a vacuum'
I have a very new found respect for lore of life after past few months. Its been helping me out quiet allot in grinding larger things down. my top picks would be Lore of metal, heavens/sky and then lore of life. Fire with the fire resistance and unreliable skull of go fuck yourself i think the fire lore is more a shiftier "RNG" version of the lore of metal.
I do like the shadow lore purely for the pendulums Esthetics but it would only be A teir at best.
Missed opportunity during the explanation of the vortex spell which only targets flying units to finish the "targets a sitting" sentence with "duck" :) Another great video!
The Lore of the Deep accuracy buff is pretty decent when you cast it on Mortars. Makes them useful in sieges because they get so horribly inaccurate at longer ranges
This mad man actually did this.
I hope waifu tier us next
@John Constantine *Miao Ying
Nice one Legend, this is helpful list also my personal Tier list that I've been using myself Heavens, Fire, Vampire, Life is my fav also, but I like to have secondary wizard like Light, Shadow in certain situations some spells don't work. Like Vampires, and Shadow/Death is good combo for sieges because sometimes you can't use Wind of Death at all!
I feel like this is the tier list I disagree with the most, but I definitely still enjoyed the video. It's great that you are unafraid to state your opinions while also explaining them so well.
Am loving these tier lists, I would also love to see build guides for the various legendary lords! You have mentioned a few times before 'if built right' that several legendary lords are quite powerful, so I would personally be interested in a more in-depth explanation for each lord's skill tree
This might be the best one yet, learned so much! Do all heros next!! Just to hear how you look at and use each one would be amazing, and likely good for a few laughs like this one was!
Was honestly not expecting the lores of magic one to be an hour long, I thought this one would go relatively quick. Looking forward to watching the whole thing.
One of the best breakdowns on any total war game. Great job, Legend!
Tier lists are premiere in easily digestible interesting content
When I first saw the thumbnail I thought to myself "how can he talk about magic for 1 hr!" Now I know... lol great video as always!
My opinion of Comet of Casandora has recently gone up. (Over) Casting it on top of the gate when sieging was a revelation. Hits those missile units hiding behind cover, and pops the gate. Delightful.
This is the one I've been looking forward to the most. Thanks Legend!
I'm so excited to hear your takes on my favorite lores.
Wind of Death - The Tierlist.
One criticism I have for this video: it didn't include the lore attributes (the passive effects that are triggered on cast) of each school. I would've liked to hear your analysis on that since I always wonder whether putting skill points on the attributes is worth it or not
Also, at 48:05 you say Gelt, Chaos and Norsca can get lore of metal, the high elves can actually get it too (not that you'd want to use it)
Of all the factions, only the Empire and Norsca make good use of Armor Strip/Anti-Blob.
Maybe Chaos can use it agaist Dwarves, they already outmuscle everything else.
The High Elves have Sisters of Avelorn
I really like Lore of Wild bc Vildtide is really easy to get early on and for an early game spell it does really good damage and it is one of the few spells that can be used on walls. Thus I'd say Lore of Wild is at least A Tier but that's just me.
I use spiteful shot in only one situation. As cylostra, in a siege, with the big bess.