Can't remember how many sets of new Titanium LS7 rods went straight into the scrap bin when we were putting together LS7s for Dakar trucks @ GM Racing... We replaced them with steel Carillos. Titanium is neat but it's just not stiff.
@@mikelmarion I'm not super familiar with Ferrari or Lamborghini engine guts, but I can speak intelligently about GM LS V8s. The key issue with Titanium is it doesn't like being rubbed against stuff - particularly other stuff made of Titanium. A 90* V8 with a cross-plane crank has two rods on each rod journal - thus the sides of the big-ends of the rods rub against one another. Titanium hates that and will tend to gall. That was addressed on the LS7 via a special coating applied by Mahle and more importantly - piston-guided rods. The small-end of the rods is a high precision fit between the pin bosses of the piston, and thus the big-end of the rod is not free to float sideways on the rod journal as with a more traditional setup. Still, the LS7 posed problems. Additionally, despite 6AL4V titanium being quite strong - it's not stiff. It's like rubber. IT flexes and twists and complies 40% more than steel does under any given load. I get that titanium rods can be made to work...and it DOES offer some real advantages - but considering the abilities and forgiveness of good steel - you should REALLY ask yourself "why?" before choosing titanium rods.
@ well, if I remember correctly..the Ls7 had many other issues engine wise so I’m not surprised by what you say as far as that goes honestly. As to far as what benefit, rod bearings for sure and a lighter rotating assembly benefits faster revving/higher revving engines. If I recall correctly the new zo6 and zr1 have titanium rods so we shall see if gm or whoever made them for gm designed this generation better than the last. Also the original Nsx had titanium rods it was never an issue there only lack of power for some people.
The cons are when installing.they easily gall when you try to torque it down. And a single scratch on the surface will become its failure point. You need to be very delicate when installing them. They are also very expensive
Newton's second law of motion states the FORCE applied to an object is equal to the object's MASS multiplied by its ACCELERATION. In other words, F=m*A The piston engine must accelerate the rod/piston up and away from BDC, then decelerate (negative acceleration) it as it approaches TDC, then accelerate it back down towards BDC, etc. Acceleration is constant for any given RPM and piston stroke... More mass thus results in higher forces...which is more load on the rod journal and bearings.
Yes. Titanium doesn't like to rub on stuff, for example the cheeks of the rod journal of the crank. Worse, it hates rubbing other stuff made of titanium - as with V8s where two rods share one rod journal and thus, the sides of the two rods must rub against eachother as the engine spins. These issues can be mostly overcome with piston-guided rods and/or with special coatings. That's what GM did with the LS7. They still had failures. Also, Titanium is not nearly as stiff as steel. What that means is it bends MORE under the SAME load - as compared to steel. Design trickery can be applied to maximize the stiffness-to-weight ratio but bottom line is a sufficiently heavy-duty enough titanium rod will not be as stiff as a steel one. Not to say Titanium rods are "bad"... They have their purposes but for 99% of the hotrodders out there - just hit the "easy button" and buy good steel rods.
@@MinhDangcraft That's incorrect. Both steel and titanium have no endurance liimit; which is to say if you keep the stress under a certain amount - it'll last forever.
@@GroovesAndLands nope, top fuel rods are like 2 runs not even a season lol. On paper similar but the rods do not like cycle loading and eventually stretch or fail in tension. Lots of main bearing warpage but nothing like Aluminum. Look it up, good reasons to use different alloys but life varies on all of them, not to say steel lasts forever either but at least Ti is light and makes your engine more responsive.
such a cool subject with only 1.5mins? what a waste! tell us more man!! tell us why, when and how these be applied! more about the rotating mass advantages! the increase in rpm and torque! tell us more on its corrosion advantages! weigh up the cost advantage or disadvantage! these lazy videos arent worth a click!
It’s weird not having Jay do these videos.
Where did he go? He retire? Didn't he own RSP?
He left, and started a new shop/YT channel called RS Garage.
I know Jay was testing these, I’d love to hear his feedback.
he told me he would drop a video update soon about a month ago
Can't remember how many sets of new Titanium LS7 rods went straight into the scrap bin when we were putting together LS7s for Dakar trucks @ GM Racing... We replaced them with steel Carillos.
Titanium is neat but it's just not stiff.
They work for Ferrari and lamborghini
@@mikelmarion I'm not super familiar with Ferrari or Lamborghini engine guts, but I can speak intelligently about GM LS V8s. The key issue with Titanium is it doesn't like being rubbed against stuff - particularly other stuff made of Titanium. A 90* V8 with a cross-plane crank has two rods on each rod journal - thus the sides of the big-ends of the rods rub against one another. Titanium hates that and will tend to gall. That was addressed on the LS7 via a special coating applied by Mahle and more importantly - piston-guided rods. The small-end of the rods is a high precision fit between the pin bosses of the piston, and thus the big-end of the rod is not free to float sideways on the rod journal as with a more traditional setup. Still, the LS7 posed problems.
Additionally, despite 6AL4V titanium being quite strong - it's not stiff. It's like rubber. IT flexes and twists and complies 40% more than steel does under any given load.
I get that titanium rods can be made to work...and it DOES offer some real advantages - but considering the abilities and forgiveness of good steel - you should REALLY ask yourself "why?" before choosing titanium rods.
@ well, if I remember correctly..the Ls7 had many other issues engine wise so I’m not surprised by what you say as far as that goes honestly. As to far as what benefit, rod bearings for sure and a lighter rotating assembly benefits faster revving/higher revving engines. If I recall correctly the new zo6 and zr1 have titanium rods so we shall see if gm or whoever made them for gm designed this generation better than the last. Also the original Nsx had titanium rods it was never an issue there only lack of power for some people.
What's the pros and cons of using titanium rods? I know it weights less and stronger but is it suitable to use for the street application?
The cons are when installing.they easily gall when you try to torque it down. And a single scratch on the surface will become its failure point. You need to be very delicate when installing them. They are also very expensive
titanium is great and all but i thought the more beef "weight" you had in a rod the better for high boost apps?
Newton's second law of motion states the FORCE applied to an object is equal to the object's MASS multiplied by its ACCELERATION. In other words, F=m*A
The piston engine must accelerate the rod/piston up and away from BDC, then decelerate (negative acceleration) it as it approaches TDC, then accelerate it back down towards BDC, etc.
Acceleration is constant for any given RPM and piston stroke... More mass thus results in higher forces...which is more load on the rod journal and bearings.
So is a titanium rod better or stronger than an aluminum rod?
I wish I could get something like this for the Nissan L series.
Are there any negatives to the Ti rods?
Yes. Titanium doesn't like to rub on stuff, for example the cheeks of the rod journal of the crank. Worse, it hates rubbing other stuff made of titanium - as with V8s where two rods share one rod journal and thus, the sides of the two rods must rub against eachother as the engine spins.
These issues can be mostly overcome with piston-guided rods and/or with special coatings. That's what GM did with the LS7. They still had failures.
Also, Titanium is not nearly as stiff as steel. What that means is it bends MORE under the SAME load - as compared to steel. Design trickery can be applied to maximize the stiffness-to-weight ratio but bottom line is a sufficiently heavy-duty enough titanium rod will not be as stiff as a steel one.
Not to say Titanium rods are "bad"... They have their purposes but for 99% of the hotrodders out there - just hit the "easy button" and buy good steel rods.
@@GroovesAndLands
Factory 2JZ rods are sufficient for 99% of all applications. Ti would be a much smaller fraction of that, I would think.
Fatigue life short like aluminum, you will have to switch them out after like 100 hours. Not for street use for sure.
@@MinhDangcraft That's incorrect. Both steel and titanium have no endurance liimit; which is to say if you keep the stress under a certain amount - it'll last forever.
@@GroovesAndLands nope, top fuel rods are like 2 runs not even a season lol. On paper similar but the rods do not like cycle loading and eventually stretch or fail in tension. Lots of main bearing warpage but nothing like Aluminum. Look it up, good reasons to use different alloys but life varies on all of them, not to say steel lasts forever either but at least Ti is light and makes your engine more responsive.
Where did jay go?
RS Garage
@ I thought Jay was the owner of Real St?
@@RZA0280 same. What's happening?!?
Didn’t Hyundai put some titanium rods into and early motor ?
$3600! Sheesh!
Ya get that on titanium parts
@ I’ll stick to my steel rods.
Obviously, not high boost applications.
what is "high boost"
@mikelmarion I don't know the exact number.
I just know, you can't run high boost on titanium rods.
such a cool subject with only 1.5mins?
what a waste! tell us more man!! tell us why, when and how these be applied! more about the rotating mass advantages! the increase in rpm and torque! tell us more on its corrosion advantages! weigh up the cost advantage or disadvantage!
these lazy videos arent worth a click!
Can yall get him to get into the coyote game 😬