What are your favorite and least favorite strategies/themes to play in EDH, and why? What minutiae makes them fun/not fun to you? The least favorite category obviously barring things like Stax, Discard, etc.
I’m all about commander war. 8-12 players all facing off against each other. I am a Tribal player. Planeswalker tribal/Tribal is my thing. The only two cards I rule zero is griselbrand for my Liliana deck (her 4 demons and her contract) and my Iona (from the vault) along with the other mono white angels from that vault box.
Do you all ever consider the player when deciding to play the deck or not? For me you could hand me a lvl 9 deck and im mediocre and you two would still kick my butt unless i got lucky. The same for everyone in my MTG group so we let everyone go as high as they want, but we dont have any 8's and above
Who in the office has a knack for taking commanders that have a few very obvious deck directions and building something completely unique? Can we look at the deck building process of them in particular? That would be super fun!
What to you believe of a Commander format that divides card types in seperate piles, and in your draw step you choose which pile to draw from? To somewhat balance it would look something like this: 1st pile: Lands, 2nd pile: Creatures, 3rd pile: Artifacts/Enchantments/Battles, 4th pile: Sorceries/Instants. This would help Jimmy draw his lands :)
@@peewee0224but their answer is pretty much the same as mine, I show up with 60+ decks to my LGS with decks everywhere from precons to CEDH, and if people want to play salty decks I have salty decks I can pull out to play, I even have enough to let the rest of the pod barrow decks to be at the same level so everyone can be playing salty decks, I find when everyone is playing a salty deck like mil, tergrid, stax, and such then Noone gets very salty because that was stated going into the game and you are already doing it back to the other players. Someone dropping a hoser card against you feels less bad when on your turn you drop a card that hoses them back.
I mean, I hit 60 decks finally a couple months ago, I did buy a literal suitcase for times I want to carry all five of my deck cases (the ever popular Stanley toolkits) and a sixth, smaller tool case for dice and similar accessories, even the whole binder of tokens just in case, sadly I haven't been able to go to an lgs in ages, but I have the option to bring it all if I do, or I can just pick pick one or two cases and bring a smaller bag.
As someone who has been "stood-up" a lot in the Commander Pod dating metaphor of showing up to game stores, I was feeling pretty down about continuing to search this year. The first year of the pandemic on Spelltable was probably the only year of consistent Commander play I ever had (with people across the country who were all eager to get back to their physical games). But I really appreciated the point about signaling your intent and interest and trying to break though.
Hey dog, I gave up on locally playing for about 2 months, swallowed my fear for a night and tried the SAME LGS again, and found a pod who I stayed up until 2 in the morning talking to and playing games. One might even become my roommate. I 1000% understand where you're at, what helped me was to just say "I'm looking for the diamonds in the rough", acknowledging that most people weren't gonna be a good fit and to just try and be around the people who gave me the right vibes. In am odd turn of events, turns out the cEDH players were wayyyy happier and less salty. I have never had an interest in the format but I'd much rather change my deck to play around people I like, rather than vice versa
I'm almost certain the "other podcast" mentioned at the end of the show is the MTG Goldfish podcast, and it would be really interesting at some point to have them talk about commander philosophy with Richard over there... That dude is on some wild stuff.
Richard absolutely has some wild takes... He does have a lot of good points though. If anyone has really changed my mind on things, or, better said, made me really ponder on things, it's been Richard.
I absolutely love the goldfish podcast but those groups of people are very different, and the format they play feels very different too (way less goodstuffy on goldfish while in CMZ only rachel builds weird decks)
A buddy's alternate "Fun Con" is equipping all 5 of his boots to Felix five boots. We as a playgroup have accepted that if he pulls it off, it's an "exodia" effect where he wins the game on the spot. It's always extremely hilarious when the final boot touches Felix and we all play 300 card pickup.
Rachel, your approach to magic at 1:03:00 is so great. I was so afraid to tell people what I like doing Friday nights that when I told people I went to play cards they thought it was poker. I finally had to just say it’s MTG and it ACTUALLY worked at getting one guy into playing with his whole family. But that initial move in being myself was hard. I think we all think we would be judged for liking what we like by strangers to the hobby.
Lots of love to Command zone cast and crew while the fires are hitting LA region. Rachel is so on point with the enjoyment of just rifling through the collection to create decks. It is fun to find the most random stuff to work well within a deck. Love and laughter in your lives, cheers friends :) Sorry second note: if you’re the group’s boogieman I suggest something fun and maybe silly. I am making a Storm group hug, still creating the puzzle that is a storm turn…. But everyone benefits. Not putting a strong win con in the deck. Maybe incidental maze end deck with copy land enchantment and multiple ways to copy that…. Something easy to disrupt and is cute. Another favorite is goblin games :)
Mainly related to this topic at 4:49, that’s how I made Eluge, the Shoreless Sea my first deck I physically bought. I saw the card tried to make a commander for and with a few tweaks became my favorite deck. The effect is unique and makes games intense when you don’t realize it until it’s too late
Huge fan of the Command Zone for the past year and I have been learning so much from you guys so thank you!!! I just wanted to highlight what Rachel said and how it recently happened at my LGS. I play only casual and we have a casual event on Wednesdays. I usually join new pods and we are very beginner friendly. I joined a pod and had 1 player who just started playing, another was play testing a deck, and I was playing a budget deck. The last player pulled out a powerful commander (can't remember what it was) and that player started saying this used to be his cEDH deck but he "had taken out all his combos." We started playing and his first turn was an Alpha dual land, Mana Vault, and another 0 artificat. Turn 2: Bolas Citadel into Omniscience into discard burn engine into Wheel of Fortune. On turn 3 he killed us with another discard affect. I understand you can have that kind of luck with the draw but that seemed to be more of a lie to the table when we had our pregame talk so I packed up my stuff and told him that was not ok nor fun to have played. When he left the store, everyone in the store was in an uproar about the player and other players also were grateful for me saying something to him. I now have started my journey into building an Urza cEDH deck to have ready if I see that player again. I never felt to salty but I ultimately feel bad for the newer players that experienced that so I want to at least protect the fun experience for the others. Is there anything that I can do to make that experience not happen often or better new players experience?
Less than 10% in I'm making this comment. Can we all just take a moment and recognize the episode quality on The Command Zone? Editing, animation, graphics and audio are all very good, and the consistency has been on point this past year. Looking forward to watch the next GKL, as live footage is always the hardest to master. Really great work by all. I'm an audio engineer (25 years) who does multimedia work, so I recognize all the steps that go into creating these and I just wanted to drop my props.
tbh there's no commander i refuse or would refuse to play against- its more the player behind the commander who is the issue, ya know? if they are bringing power to a casual game, that's one thing, but if they just happen to love an overpowered commander but didn't tune the deck to cEDH level, why not let them play it? idk!
I think its also on both though, usually theres a power conversation between me and my friends. We base our decks off of how fast they can win by, my narset being a turn 6-9 game ender or my animus which is more 9-15 ish 9 being super lucky.❤
@@lVideoWatcherldefinitely not. I like a challenge, and I’ve have some very fun games with people playing all kinds of unexpected decks. But this is coming from the benefit of having regular games. I’m not too bothered by the chance that one player intends to and succeeds in ruining everyone’s day.
Been following Rachel’s IG story updates and happy to hear that she’s doing alright! Hopefully everyone in the CZ (and beyond), along with everyone in CA is safe!
Format speed does feel like an issue in my experience. Brackets might help some if they are well defined and pretty robust, but I think the format can't remain ban averse as it gets larger and more diverse. Rule 0 just doesn't work in many LGS environments. Brackets should actually help find cards that are problematic enough to ban and help make r0 conversations more fruitful, as long as Brackets are well defined and have robust lists of examples.
Hate to say it but the brackets are just a cheap excuse for the wizards to not ban high-priced cards. They're basically saying if you don't want to run into these cars don't play it this tier level so they can continue selling these high-price cards.
34:16 last Friday I realized I hit that point in my Magic career. I was being targeted by the table and felt like I really wasn’t doing much. Another player commented that I’m always the player who has the most permanents on the board and that I seem like I’m doing nothing then I win and then I realized that because Ive spent time obsessing over building and interactions it’s caused my plan C and/or D game plan for the deck to still much stronger than the tables I normally play at and with how much I’ve analyzed games before I seemingly have an answer for everything now which I didn’t have before. I completely agree and understand the frustration that is being talked about here.
As a music teacher I can relate to this. Teaching gets you used to being in front of a large group, and anytime you’re teaching you have to be ready for anything. Love the discussion. 👏
Long time listenere here. I really like your thoughts on accepting you are the target sometimes. I've ran into the same problem where I'm often the target even in budget challenges because I'm more invested then some of the other player in the playgroup. Sometimes accepting you are going to be targeted or like josh said pick your spot to win or play different and interesting lines helps mitigate this within your play group. As a side note what I have begun to do for people within my play group is help them build decks if we do a challenge or I help them build decks in general based on their playstyle/ budget. I've found it is a lot of fun and even got inspiration for decks/ colors I wouldn't normally play.
Even testing my decks on moxfield by playing 2-7 turns to see what kinda set up I can get in early to mid game, there have been times I've sat back and been like "Great, that works exactly the way I wanted... I am SO gonna be the problem if my deck pops off like this, though" I've also spent a lot of time playing friends where they FELT I was a better deckbuilder than them, so they started targeting me on principal each game. Every night was archenemy with no upside
At 30:15, on the topic deck power level, a tool I have found a lot of success with is spelltable. There are a lot of 6-7 pods (altered precons, no tutors or fast mana, rare combos, mostly basic lands) you can test decks on… but if you are unsure of if a deck will fit… the 7-8 pods are perfect. You can always host and/or join a game in minutes… and if you are playing anything that touches 8, you will see dual lands, tutors, combos… but not before turn 6-8. It’s a great place to see IF a strong deck you have will be frustrating for players at an LGS or if you will get wrecked by internet 8s and will be an appropriate 7. It’s also a great place to find higher lever games for those mean decks you don’t get to play very often.
Concerning the other card types as rule 0 commanders I think it's fair to point out noncreature commanders already exist in the form of MDFCs. The Prismatic Bridge is an enchantment as commander, f. e. Other than that, I do agree with your take though. Know your audience is the most important aspect ;)
For the building fun decks questions: Try to build a deck that doesn't take to much game time. So easy no extra turns or untap in opponents turns, not more than 3 to 4 boardwipes. Cards that don't ask do you pay the one or two every gameaction your opponents take. Most cards should be easy explain so no dauthi voidwalker or agathas soulcauldron stuff with long complicated text lines. Not to many tutors including land ramp as shuffling takes time. No storm stuff so like at peak at most like 4 to 6 spells from you in a turn cycle. Not to many trigger triggers like cathars crusade No combo kills without sorcory speed interaction possibilities or declare forehand this is a dangerous piece you might want to remove it otherwise i most likely will win next turn. Not to much steal your stuff, destroy your lands, counter each spell etc... The general don't likes ... 1 or 2 is fine, but usually decks tend to have 7 extra turn spells and not just one 😅 For fun additions: cards that let your opponents make a choice but one time stuff like fact or fiction prisoners delema is another one i think ... I liked oath of druids a lot. It takes game time, but everybody is involved and can be lucky... Good luck building with that 😅
I totally get the feeling that the "fun decks to play against" question has. I have a few decks that I can legally play and they aren't always fun for them. My Shalai and Hallar deck has a "prevent spells on my turn" kind of card in it and 3 ways to just outright win the game, 2 are infinite combos and the last is a huge boardwide player removal with the right set up and enough bodies on the field. I have a Tinybones deck that has tons of discard and the one time I played it, I was near immediately nuked from orbit and made to watch the rest of the game basically on the sidelines. Finally, I have a Zimone deck and anyone who has played against Zimone, even just her precon set, can tell you just how oppressive she can be. Mine runs Vorinclex, World Hungerer so you can imagine how everyone reacts when that thing comes out.
@@mightyfangs My buddy has his own version of this deck, which includes cards that I want for my deck like Abhorrent Oculus and Crucible of Worlds, and me and our other friend locked down his commander with Imprisoned In The Moon for the whole game and he still won thanks to a +1 lands per turn and a Scute Swarm that we didn't have a boardwipe for.
It's awesome you read my question. It was interesting to hear the response, and I agree with needing to keep the power levels fair for Rule Zero Commanders
32:45 A fun restriction I've begun using a lot to power down my brews is only using cards available in an early modern frame printing (2003-2015). Scryfall even has a search term! "frame=2003"
I used to play against a guy who often played with Gengu of the Realms, but then would say no to other players rule zero commanders. I often thought about saying no to him because he would say no to others.
Hearing the advice for starting content is making me think of a great channel: Quest for the Janklord. They started out with some creative ideas, filled a niche in the community (gameplay with hard-budget decks), and continue to make really entertaining stuff, even if it has less polish than shows like Game Knights.
I think a great way to control power level is to give your deck weaknesses or parameters. "This blink deck is going to have these 8 insane cards, but I'm going to avoid mass fog effects." "I'm going to run tutors for consistency but not grab Mikaeus / Triskelion unless I'm against a combo deck." "I'm going to pay 20 life to draw cards but not include lifegain." "This deck is going to use attack triggers but not include extra combat cards to go infinite." This is especially relevant when building REALLY strong or hard to interact with commanders. IE: Narset planeswalker build with no extra turn cards. Niv-Mizzet, Parun but no card is worth more than $2 on the cheapest print. Or play really busted cards with a C+ level commander. Sure, you won't win as many games, but it'll allow your deck to "do the thing" without being the big bad end boss every turn cycle.
Thanks for touching on rule 0. I've been planning a very silly casual Skeleton Ship/Skeleton Crew rule 0 partners and this encouraged me to go forward with it
I agree with the color rankings, but I will say in defense of red, that as a splash color in a deck, it usually brings the cards that actually win the game, especially in combo decks. Say impact tremors, goblin bombardment, firebrand archer etc
1:32:34 I think white is by far the most complete mono color in the format. It has absurd ramp abusing catch up ramp with bounce lands and lotus field type lands. It has good to great card draw often limited to once per turn, but with things like trouble in pairs, caretaker's talent, tocasia's welcome every deck archetype can find solid options in white. It has the best board wipe in the format along with a host of other amazing board wipes. Then interaction, recursion, it is still always at the top. It is the best color to build a mono colored deck.
I think I'll answer these questions as well. I think it'll be fun. 1. The short answer is that I'm addicted to deck building, and I passively brainstorm ideas for new decks all the time. The more detailed answer is that I want to experience what it's like to build and play every kind of deck. I have an ever growing roster of decks to choose from, so I never get bored. (Currently 93 decks.) The things that get my mind working on building a deck are either a mechanic, a tribe, a specific card, a commander, or a cool idea. I wanted to build a pirate rogue hybrid tribal deck well before outlaw existed as an example, and I held onto the idea long enough to allow cards to be printed that would support the strategy. 2. I own a Rule 0 Golos chaos/group hug deck. However, I built it before Golos was banned, and it's designed to accelerate the game with the group hug side, throw the game into chaos with the chaos side, and has no wincon. It's basically a stage hazard. If it wins, it's by pure luck. I also can't imagine any commander besides Golos at the helm. I don't bring it with me unless someone requests it. 3. I would politely decline playing against Purphoros and Krenko. Mostly because I'm sick of playing against the deck because they are always built the same way and play the same way.
4. I always aim for power level 7 unless I'm specifically wanting something on a different level. 5. I'm rarely the problem, so I don't know how to answer this question. I do know people who could use this advice and tone down their play style. On the other hand, I would have a fun time playing against people on a lower power level because I actually have a lot of lower power decks I never get to play. 6. When I started playing I was given cards and there's many cards I have a special affinity with. The original Mirrodin block (Mirrodin, Darksteel, and Fifth Dawn), the original Kamigawa block (Champions of Kamigawa, Betrayers of Kamigawa, and Saviors of Kamigawa), and 8th Edition are what I was playing a lot of when I started. As such, I am partial to those sets and the cards in them. Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is probably at the top of that list. I do have a Kiki-Jiki commander deck. 7. No, as Josh and Rachel said, not only are cards designed with commander in mind now, but also there's more cards that do a similar thing. You want to ramp basic lands? In the past you basically had Nature's Lore, Rampant Growth, and Explosive Vegetation. Now you have more than 20 options that do something similar. 8. Never played Magic at a con unfortunately... 9. I have a few play groups. I think the ideal things to do involve being social. Either you can teach people how to play to form your own group, or you can talk to people at your LGS, find out stuff, get their number, get their social, figure out times to meet up. The real trick is finding people you get along with during a game and not argue with too often. 10. I've actually always wanted to start a Magic channel. Resources isn't the problem in my case...it's time. I just need more time. Also, with 93 commander decks, I got content. It's just time! 11. I'm an awkward introvert who freezes up and stutters a lot. I have had some training in college in a public speaking class and a professional practices class for art. Still, I could definitely use more practice getting to a point instead of rambling. 12 and 13. Not really questions intended for fans, but I really like Command Zone and enjoy hearing their responses to fans. My favorite episode...is unclear... I'm just not sure...I like so many... 14. Green, Blue, Black, Red, White I put the colors in this order. Yes, they made some good arguments for white, but I feel like some details with red have been left out. I have a mono red Kiki-Jiki commander deck with dragon tribal and treasure sub-themes. Even with Dockside going away, red is still the king of treasure token production. That combined with impulse draw and rituals can paint a bigger picture of how fast and aggressive red can be. I'm saying all this even though one of my best decks is mono white (Loran).
Goldfish just posted a Commander Clash where they played spells as their Commanders...seemed very serendipitous since you guys talk about Rule Zero Commander question...
Not necessarily a question but idea that came when Rachel was talking about her alters. I think it’d be really cool for yall to do a full episode on cool collection ideas - lots of newer players in the last few years that may be less familiar or unfamiliar with: alters, artist proofs, artist signatures, tournament stamped cards, etc. be a cool way to showcase some community alter folks too
When it comes to playing your powerful decks against your local pod. I have found that it’s fun to just play those on spell table with others who have similar decks and strength. Then taking your more casual builds to meet your friend’s expectation in deck strength. I don’t have a card shop. I can go play with random people so I mostly just play spell table with randoms. Most people there know what they want to play against.
i got really into magic cause my friends played it, and going with them to the store for a few days really made it easier to hang out with random players, cause no matter what there is one thing that we all have in common :) and that is we like to play our decks and that's something that can be arranged even with random people :). plus it doesent have to go into a "now we are super friends" direction at all. The community is good people
My crazy story about finding a new play group... I moved to the middle of Arizona, 1.5 hours from a card store, but at that time I was pretty invested in college and MTG. I wrote my phone number down on some of the MTG display boxes at our local Walmart, and a group of people text me and we met for lunch one day, and the rest was history haha
I remember either from a tweet or his podcast Shivam said he would prefer to build a deck without the option than sandbag the option in hand. In reference to self regulating power level, in addition to removing things like tutors and fast mana and all that, just remove answers and make your win cons bigger. When my buddy started playing I would build decks with almost no interaction. If I wanted to deal with something it had to be in combat. If an artifact was problematic I had basically no way to stop it. If I was setting up a combo it would be like 5 or 6 cards to really go off rather than 2 or 3. It really helped him learn card interactions when he was able to just do his thing and not have me blow up the new creature he pulled that he wanted to try out. And it really helped me enjoy games more when I didn't have the answer in hand and could try to outpace building my board, rather than stare at my Swords to Plowshares or whatever in hand and just let it be a dead card for a few turns. Now I would say he is definitely on par with building decks as me, maybe even better, and even though I still know the rules more, he is in general a much more skilled player than he used to be and our games are almost always really close.
I will say this about the "32 deck challenge" trap: I'm doing it specifically because I want to better understand the color pie, and doing this the way I tend to brew (I avoid building decks "the way that everyone does" or playing painfully popular commanders unless there's a specific reason for it) has made me a much better player! Once I complete the 32, I'm just going to focus on my theme decks that feel the most like they clearly illustrate who I am as a person.
and regarding red as weakest color: There are a lot of busted cards in mono red, especially for commander. Descent to avernus comes to mind, Sneak Attack / Boar, Magdha, most of the treasure dragons - with some fast mana love, Red can close out games quite quickly. And with chaos cards like Confusion in the ranks, Chaos Wand and Etali, it is definetely the most fun. And you can actually make a Chandra Typal deck. Try to do that with any other planeswalker. anyway, keep up the great content!
I don't have a question,i have an opinion,i honestly think that the "problem" with red is that is being played like the other colours,and not to it's own strengths.
Red is good in 60 card format with 20 life, it falls down when you can only have one lightning bolt in 100 card decks and your trying to kill 3 people with 40 life each. No t enough gas in card draw and you can't burn people enough, really there isn't enough of what red does well in 60 card formats that would work in commander.
Is there a specific process you go through to power *down* a deck? I recently put together a 5 colour Scion of the Ur Dragon deck and found that I can't really play it because it's too good for regular tables, but I like the deck and don't want to take it apart.
Take out 3 lands and your 2 strongest finishers, and then add a jank 4 card combo finish that has 1 substitute card. Then, when you play, actively try to hit this new wincon. You will miss land drops, which will slow you down, and by playing towards this new goal, your in-game decision making will change. Your deck is now lower power.
17:20 I have a Malcolm, Breeches and, Francisco rule 0 deck. Mainly because I already had a Becket Brass commander deck and I didn't want to take it apart but also because pirates don't care about the rules. The deck also still has a hullbreacher and dockside in it. Very fun to play when some of my friends play their rule 0 decks. If I'm playing against randoms, I use Becket Brass as my commander and swap out the banned cards if they don't want to play against it as a rule 0 deck.
What should I bring to Magic Con? "What you would bring on a long hike. + 4 decks" What are some things you should know before making gameplay content? " Cue Shia La Beouf meme!" Good stuff guys!
Interestingly EDHREC shows the number of each mono-color decks and from most to least it goes red, black, white, blue, then green. What are your thoughts about that as it relates to your color rankings?
Following up in rule zero commanders in partner, does your opinion change if the two creatures have Meld? For example, a mono white Gisela/Bruna deck, or a rakdos Mishra/Dragon Engine deck? The deck still functions legally as a non-partner deck, but does benefit from having Partner.
As far as deciding deck power level I break it into 4 things. Combos, tutors, fast mana, and who the commander is because some commanders are inherently better. Usually if you have 2 or less of these your deck is typically fine.
I have a tergrid deck that is my absolute baby, and I totally do the “one game per session” rule with it. I know nobody wants to do this all evening but MAYBE JUST ONCE it’s fun cuz the table can band together and try and knock me out first!
A way I like to control my EDH-decks are the I can't have the same card in two or more decks; i.e. if I want to play demonic tutor and have 2 edh decks with black in them, only one of them can have demonic tutor in it. I've got 6 decks right now and it gets really tricky AND fun to try and put together decks NOT using obivous staples but having to find different options. I also get to see and play with more and different cards..
I built a Gisa, the Hellraiser and Geralf, the fleshwright rule 0 partners deck recently and my main pod decided to just remove ward and giving zombies menace. It worked over very well and felt balanced. Sometimes it takes little tweaks to make it more fair. Dimir zombies definitely has lots of support, but these two felt right paired together
Commenting on the rule 0 commanders, specifically the “there’s a power cap on rule 0 commanders” bit: For pride last year, when they had the “all commanders have partner” event, I made a Delney/Shirei deck. Both solid commanders with strict limitations that keep them in check. But once I was able to put them together, wow was it busted. Who knew multiple triggers of blood artist effects could be so strong /s I obviously took it apart because it was too strong to justify keeping it together in a pod that’s mostly casual. That being said, I’ve been allowed by my pod to remake the deck for pride again, so I guess every year it’ll just be my deck of the month lol. Cause GOSH was it so fun to play! Using Preston the vanisher with shirei? Getting multiple copies of your stuff and even more copies with delney? WILD
29:56 I would also suggest trying out group hug…there are fun strategies that can aid everyone at the table. I build a Maze’s End deck with Pyxis of Pandemonium…it was a thing of beauty. Pyxis allows you to say to the table. Keep me alive X more rounds and then I will crack open the Pyxis. Amazing insane games.
The alternate funcon thing is a good goal. In every game, I usually set a goal, and if i am able to cast the minimum spells required to achieve that gial, im happy, even if I get blown out by a counterspell or other interaction. My deck did the thing, and whatever happens after happens.
I use Delay instead of counterspell because it makes that boardwipe a strategic counter. Do you fill the board for 3 turns blowing away your opponents or do you stockpile for that final counter to go off and go ham - likely with the rest of the table. Its not, better, just adds more flavour to games.
My LGS has had Commander night for a year now. It started because one person who knew the store owner said "why don't you try this?" And now we have 4 tables every week and we're growing. If your LGS doesn't have a Magic night, see if you can start one.
I am also in Brody's position: I recommend building some jank stuff. Looking for janky and goofy cards is still rewarding as an invested player. It also makes the games much more fun.
My favorite "bling" deck is an unsleeved deck if VERY heavy played cards. Like Josh's "wave" deck. Cards from as far hack as ABU. Scuffed from the sidewalk, faded.. well loved. It's the deck i play in contrast to my (work in progress) actually blinged deck of my judge foils and old frame foils.
On the "How do you build fun decks to play against" (and also "slowing down game" too) In my play group, we've fallen behind mtg release (for motivation reason toward the game as is it going right now) So we build cubes. 20x3 packs, 2 cards picked at a time, At the end of the draft, you choose a legendary creature, shuffle, and every card is a MDFC Command tower, no basic. It takes 20min to 30min to draft, there is no building step, if a cards isn't in your commander identity you can try to mana cheat it, use treasures, or use it as a command tower. We keep two stables cubes: an entrypoint cube with 500 curated cards (basically cards with easy to read and understand text boxes, lot of support of synergies) and one unhinged 1000+ cards cube with strong effects. Cubes let you play those cards you never put on your decks, and even with the chaosiest pool of cards, you probably will have fun. You can also control the power level or speed of the game. An other thing about the speed of the game: I think the main factor of power creep is cards doing too many things, most recent cards are both the engine, the fuel and the pay off. Where you needed 3 cards to build a synergie, you only need one. Where you had niche redundancy, now you have go-everywhere good stuff ready to combo. Creatures that had to deal combat damage, only had to attack, then only had to see other creatures attack. Creature effect which triggered after a turn now triggers when they enter too. The game speeds up because you need less resources and less turn to do the same splashy effect. If I had a magic wand, I would just ask: split all cards that make multiple effects into that much simplier cards.
Having an alternate goal to consider a game as a win can be fun. I have a group hug deck that I go into games with a plan to come in second. I empower other played decks to pop off so they don't want to kill me.
The easiest and best way to lower power level is raising the curve. If there's an effect you want and they have a 3 CMC option and a 4 CMC option opt for the 4. Instead of mostly 0 or two mana rocks opt for 3 mana. Reducing efficiency is the best antidote for power.
I know they'll do it eventually, it's inevitable at this point, but I would love to see a background like mechanic that can apply to any legendary creature that doesn't have partner already. It could have building restriction like companions but I think it would be super interesting. Would it be broken? Probably. But the possibilities would be endless
I have a Q. How do you think red can improve in Commander? The draw and discard style of draw in red can be great for certain decks but detrimental to others. Same with impulse draw.
52:11 in my opinion one way to slow games down is to stop playing infinite loops or infinite dmg things... Recouring effekts just happen one time every turn and now you don't have to worry about somebody to win on the spot. Impact tremor is a good example for a card. If this happens only once... sure the card is bad now. But it will not whipe a whole table and we play magic again.
11:36 my first blue/white deck was Millicent and I only picked her up because I was at my LGS and somehow I completely missed that precon. I picked it up and liked the way it can cheat commander tax And didn’t own a god token deck but I fell in love with it after a few games where I dropped an angels’ trumpet and watched it warp and accelerate the game plan. I really wanted to find a place for that card and as a bonus it made blue/white which are normally control colors wish in a way where it plays control then shifts to aggro out of no where and that play pattern is incredibly fun
Personally, i don't like high power tables. I used to build decks, still have a kindred collection, but nowadays i only enjoy playing with precons and if someone doesn't have one, i try offering them one from my own collection and they usually accept, maybe because it's a new experience playing with a different deck.
24:45 I have one deck like that. My tutor in Anikthea is The Creation of Avacyn just because it is an enchantment and it fits the theme because I also have Avacyn's Pilgrim for ramp and Avacyn herself
I did the deck of every color, and i have multiple more decks. I do so because I love to play trolling type of decks and i know people would hate to play them every game so i have multiple decks to change things up every game. Like i love chaos, group hug, pramacon, and my O-Kagachi "are you sure you want to do that?" Deck that plays cards that punish people that try to attack me, deal damage to me, or combo. Like deflecting palm.
With my magic wand I would get rid of any cards with the same mann costs and new abilities. More abilities and more power meets more mana or loss of life or downsides to play them. There are so many cards with the same manna values and more powerful effects every set. The legendary rule applies now to card converted manna costs
What's the best way to prevent a group's decks from developing into an arms race of sorts where the power level keeps escalating? I admit I was what started this with some of my decks but I've stopped and was wanting to know how I can determine whether it's gone too far
For that rule 0 question I really feel that about trying to limit the power of it to keep it from feeling unfair. I have a rule 0 deck that I built with maelstrom Archangel that I started by just wanting to play as many of the legendary angels as I could, but I ended up removing some of the more specific angel synergy and now it's more of a WUBRG color-matters big stompy deck that just happens to have a lot of angels in it. I do like where it ended up and I hope people have fun against it but it's definitely toeing the line more than it would be if I left it as it was before.
I have a question: How does the process of building decks for your personal collection differ from building decks for on camera? Is it a major difference trying to build decks strictly to win vs building a deck that's fun to watch on camera?
For context: I built a Rocco, Street Chef with the intent of making a deck that was fun for the whole table to play against. It can win and its a good deck, but it was built with that unique goal. And it was a Christmas themed deck!
I love the rule0 commanders! As long as it is reasonable of course. The 2 rule0 commander decks i have are a 5 color mutate godzilla deck with surgeon general commander as commander (5c manadork who lets you draw a card whenever you mutate) and a azorius dungeon deck based around the baldurs gate draft dungeon as undercity. The draft undercity has more powerful but generic last rooms, but take longer to get there. Both decks are strong, but nog stronger nor weaker than my other decks.
Yeah. It’s also nice to see when something comes back and even if it doesn’t make an old card or mechanic good, but makes it a little more robust. Thunder Junction is finally letting me live my Mercenary deck dreams. Maybe. I’ve been out of the game for years, so I’m missing a lot.
One of my friends knows that he is a big min-max deckbuilder, in that vein he plays only pauper commander decks against our play group. This allows him to optimize the deck to its maximum but also have a deck thats not too over the top compared to more budget decks.
I have a Liliana, Heretical Healer Vorthos deck. Every card in it is either has Liliana in the art, is a “Liliana’s something” card, has a Liliana quote, or is tied to her in Lore. I have never once been allowed to rule 0 Griselbrand into the 99. So I have Ormendahl 😢 as the fourth demon. It’s a land so it doesn’t break my rules of all Liliana as much.
I think the average casual EDH table might be closer to PL6 than to PL7, considering that recent precons are maybe PL4 or PL5 right out of the box, and a lot of players here use moderately upgraded versions of these. Most of our other players attempt to homebrew at roughly the same level.
We have players who build fun theme decks, and then a single player who exclusively builds to win at all costs. It is a rough toss up. He is the guy who will lose to leathal damage and then boardwipe in response just to jack up the table on his way out.
I know that just feeling out decks is how I have to assess how I built them. For example I got a Tamiyo, Inquisitive Student from a release, and decided to toss together a deck that was pretty much all draw and payouts for draw. Turns out that my goofy deck that was just focused on touching all the cards in my library was grossly overpowered compared to everyone else that I played.
Honestly, one of my favorite ways to find a commander to build around nowadays is to participate in things like the Archidekt deck building challenges. My newest favorite deck came from their “hidden commander” challenge. Alternatively, I tune into podcasts like this one or SAWLM and listen to what other folks are enjoying. I don’t tend to mirror exactly what other people do, but I like to springboard off their ideas and take them in different directions.
Throw your questions in the comments! We won’t be able to get to all of them, but will answer as much as we have time for!
What are your favorite and least favorite strategies/themes to play in EDH, and why? What minutiae makes them fun/not fun to you? The least favorite category obviously barring things like Stax, Discard, etc.
I’m all about commander war. 8-12 players all facing off against each other. I am a Tribal player. Planeswalker tribal/Tribal is my thing. The only two cards I rule zero is griselbrand for my Liliana deck (her 4 demons and her contract) and my Iona (from the vault) along with the other mono white angels from that vault box.
Do you all ever consider the player when deciding to play the deck or not? For me you could hand me a lvl 9 deck and im mediocre and you two would still kick my butt unless i got lucky. The same for everyone in my MTG group so we let everyone go as high as they want, but we dont have any 8's and above
Who in the office has a knack for taking commanders that have a few very obvious deck directions and building something completely unique? Can we look at the deck building process of them in particular? That would be super fun!
What to you believe of a Commander format that divides card types in seperate piles, and in your draw step you choose which pile to draw from? To somewhat balance it would look something like this: 1st pile: Lands, 2nd pile: Creatures, 3rd pile: Artifacts/Enchantments/Battles, 4th pile: Sorceries/Instants. This would help Jimmy draw his lands :)
Hey I've been a huge fan of the Command Zone for some time. I'm hoping and praying for your Guy's saftey with all the fires over in LA
Agreed! Stay safe you guys!
Thank you!
What? 🐠‼️I never even got to play them hope they are OK
Same! Stay safe, you guys
Stay safe guys. Thoughts and prayers including u all in LA county
I think it’s slightly funny that they chose a thumbnail question whose answer turned out to be: “Eh, we’ll play against whatever.”
Clickbait...in my MTG...never!
It’s just a really good clickbait question. Negativity gets clicks
@@peewee0224but their answer is pretty much the same as mine, I show up with 60+ decks to my LGS with decks everywhere from precons to CEDH, and if people want to play salty decks I have salty decks I can pull out to play, I even have enough to let the rest of the pod barrow decks to be at the same level so everyone can be playing salty decks, I find when everyone is playing a salty deck like mil, tergrid, stax, and such then Noone gets very salty because that was stated going into the game and you are already doing it back to the other players. Someone dropping a hoser card against you feels less bad when on your turn you drop a card that hoses them back.
@atk9989 60?? you bring a fork lift as well?
I mean, I hit 60 decks finally a couple months ago, I did buy a literal suitcase for times I want to carry all five of my deck cases (the ever popular Stanley toolkits) and a sixth, smaller tool case for dice and similar accessories, even the whole binder of tokens just in case, sadly I haven't been able to go to an lgs in ages, but I have the option to bring it all if I do, or I can just pick pick one or two cases and bring a smaller bag.
As someone who has been "stood-up" a lot in the Commander Pod dating metaphor of showing up to game stores, I was feeling pretty down about continuing to search this year. The first year of the pandemic on Spelltable was probably the only year of consistent Commander play I ever had (with people across the country who were all eager to get back to their physical games). But I really appreciated the point about signaling your intent and interest and trying to break though.
You'll find the pod that's right for you. Best of luck!
shot in the dark, where are you from?
@@dennisbarbieri8122 Raleigh, NC
Hey dog, I gave up on locally playing for about 2 months, swallowed my fear for a night and tried the SAME LGS again, and found a pod who I stayed up until 2 in the morning talking to and playing games. One might even become my roommate. I 1000% understand where you're at, what helped me was to just say "I'm looking for the diamonds in the rough", acknowledging that most people weren't gonna be a good fit and to just try and be around the people who gave me the right vibes. In am odd turn of events, turns out the cEDH players were wayyyy happier and less salty. I have never had an interest in the format but I'd much rather change my deck to play around people I like, rather than vice versa
Finally moved over from only watching commander gameplay to the analysis videos, really helping me understand the game more! Thank you!
The "Rule Zero Partners" comment at the end has an asterisk.
Everyone I've ever met has been cool with someone playing Gimli and Legolas as partners!
I have a friend who has a wyll & Rowan commander deck. It's pretty busted. Lol
I would LOVE to play odric and akroma. Sadly, odric doesnt have partner though akroma does.
That's because it was ridiculous that they didn't have partner
It helps that Gimli and Legolas both have no OP printings and they're gruel limited.
@conker1847 there's a Simic legolas so it's temur limited.
I'm almost certain the "other podcast" mentioned at the end of the show is the MTG Goldfish podcast, and it would be really interesting at some point to have them talk about commander philosophy with Richard over there... That dude is on some wild stuff.
Richard absolutely has some wild takes...
He does have a lot of good points though. If anyone has really changed my mind on things, or, better said, made me really ponder on things, it's been Richard.
Richard resolving Farewell or Boompile would be hilarious on Command Zone.
...or Urza's Glasses
I absolutely love the goldfish podcast but those groups of people are very different, and the format they play feels very different too (way less goodstuffy on goldfish while in CMZ only rachel builds weird decks)
Richard is a creator you want to actually create his deck just to see how janky and different it is
just so long as its not Seth. That guy is so annoying to listen to. blocked that channel. Richard, and Crim were both great tho
32:20
Rachel is hilarious
"OH he can do bed times!? CONGRATS" 😂😂
saaame...
Hahaha. Thank you!
❤
A buddy's alternate "Fun Con" is equipping all 5 of his boots to Felix five boots. We as a playgroup have accepted that if he pulls it off, it's an "exodia" effect where he wins the game on the spot. It's always extremely hilarious when the final boot touches Felix and we all play 300 card pickup.
Cute
Rachel, your approach to magic at 1:03:00 is so great. I was so afraid to tell people what I like doing Friday nights that when I told people I went to play cards they thought it was poker. I finally had to just say it’s MTG and it ACTUALLY worked at getting one guy into playing with his whole family. But that initial move in being myself was hard. I think we all think we would be judged for liking what we like by strangers to the hobby.
Hope you guys are staying safe with all the fires over there.
Only You! 🐻
Lots of love to Command zone cast and crew while the fires are hitting LA region.
Rachel is so on point with the enjoyment of just rifling through the collection to create decks. It is fun to find the most random stuff to work well within a deck.
Love and laughter in your lives, cheers friends :)
Sorry second note: if you’re the group’s boogieman I suggest something fun and maybe silly. I am making a Storm group hug, still creating the puzzle that is a storm turn…. But everyone benefits. Not putting a strong win con in the deck. Maybe incidental maze end deck with copy land enchantment and multiple ways to copy that…. Something easy to disrupt and is cute. Another favorite is goblin games :)
Thanks for the well wishes and support!
Mainly related to this topic at 4:49, that’s how I made Eluge, the Shoreless Sea my first deck I physically bought. I saw the card tried to make a commander for and with a few tweaks became my favorite deck. The effect is unique and makes games intense when you don’t realize it until it’s too late
Huge fan of the Command Zone for the past year and I have been learning so much from you guys so thank you!!! I just wanted to highlight what Rachel said and how it recently happened at my LGS. I play only casual and we have a casual event on Wednesdays. I usually join new pods and we are very beginner friendly. I joined a pod and had 1 player who just started playing, another was play testing a deck, and I was playing a budget deck. The last player pulled out a powerful commander (can't remember what it was) and that player started saying this used to be his cEDH deck but he "had taken out all his combos." We started playing and his first turn was an Alpha dual land, Mana Vault, and another 0 artificat. Turn 2: Bolas Citadel into Omniscience into discard burn engine into Wheel of Fortune. On turn 3 he killed us with another discard affect. I understand you can have that kind of luck with the draw but that seemed to be more of a lie to the table when we had our pregame talk so I packed up my stuff and told him that was not ok nor fun to have played. When he left the store, everyone in the store was in an uproar about the player and other players also were grateful for me saying something to him. I now have started my journey into building an Urza cEDH deck to have ready if I see that player again. I never felt to salty but I ultimately feel bad for the newer players that experienced that so I want to at least protect the fun experience for the others. Is there anything that I can do to make that experience not happen often or better new players experience?
Less than 10% in I'm making this comment.
Can we all just take a moment and recognize the episode quality on The Command Zone? Editing, animation, graphics and audio are all very good, and the consistency has been on point this past year. Looking forward to watch the next GKL, as live footage is always the hardest to master. Really great work by all.
I'm an audio engineer (25 years) who does multimedia work, so I recognize all the steps that go into creating these and I just wanted to drop my props.
true, most people don't realize that kind of thing
tbh there's no commander i refuse or would refuse to play against- its more the player behind the commander who is the issue, ya know? if they are bringing power to a casual game, that's one thing, but if they just happen to love an overpowered commander but didn't tune the deck to cEDH level, why not let them play it? idk!
You said this very well
I very much agree with this. The cards are not bad...the players are.
I think its also on both though, usually theres a power conversation between me and my friends. We base our decks off of how fast they can win by, my narset being a turn 6-9 game ender or my animus which is more 9-15 ish 9 being super lucky.❤
So seeing, for instance, a Tergrid in the command zone of an opponent would not lead you to refuse to play that game?
@@lVideoWatcherldefinitely not. I like a challenge, and I’ve have some very fun games with people playing all kinds of unexpected decks. But this is coming from the benefit of having regular games. I’m not too bothered by the chance that one player intends to and succeeds in ruining everyone’s day.
The idea of a go-pro style making of Game Knights Live documentary sounds incredible. Please make that. That would be so good!
I always find it so interesting all the different reasons players have for avoiding going against certain commanders
I’ve played 3 Toxrill matches and they all go exactly the same. Now I just sit those games out if someone really needs to play it
Been following Rachel’s IG story updates and happy to hear that she’s doing alright! Hopefully everyone in the CZ (and beyond), along with everyone in CA is safe!
"The Blue Shell" was the perfect bit in this. Hilarious to see it popping up. Great questions and discussions, y'all! Thanks for the video
29:20 A commander Cube might be worth looking into for this playgroup. Brody could build the cube given his investment
Format speed does feel like an issue in my experience. Brackets might help some if they are well defined and pretty robust, but I think the format can't remain ban averse as it gets larger and more diverse. Rule 0 just doesn't work in many LGS environments. Brackets should actually help find cards that are problematic enough to ban and help make r0 conversations more fruitful, as long as Brackets are well defined and have robust lists of examples.
Hate to say it but the brackets are just a cheap excuse for the wizards to not ban high-priced cards. They're basically saying if you don't want to run into these cars don't play it this tier level so they can continue selling these high-price cards.
34:16 last Friday I realized I hit that point in my Magic career. I was being targeted by the table and felt like I really wasn’t doing much. Another player commented that I’m always the player who has the most permanents on the board and that I seem like I’m doing nothing then I win and then I realized that because Ive spent time obsessing over building and interactions it’s caused my plan C and/or D game plan for the deck to still much stronger than the tables I normally play at and with how much I’ve analyzed games before I seemingly have an answer for everything now which I didn’t have before. I completely agree and understand the frustration that is being talked about here.
As a music teacher I can relate to this. Teaching gets you used to being in front of a large group, and anytime you’re teaching you have to be ready for anything. Love the discussion. 👏
Long time listenere here. I really like your thoughts on accepting you are the target sometimes. I've ran into the same problem where I'm often the target even in budget challenges because I'm more invested then some of the other player in the playgroup. Sometimes accepting you are going to be targeted or like josh said pick your spot to win or play different and interesting lines helps mitigate this within your play group.
As a side note what I have begun to do for people within my play group is help them build decks if we do a challenge or I help them build decks in general based on their playstyle/ budget. I've found it is a lot of fun and even got inspiration for decks/ colors I wouldn't normally play.
Even testing my decks on moxfield by playing 2-7 turns to see what kinda set up I can get in early to mid game, there have been times I've sat back and been like "Great, that works exactly the way I wanted... I am SO gonna be the problem if my deck pops off like this, though"
I've also spent a lot of time playing friends where they FELT I was a better deckbuilder than them, so they started targeting me on principal each game. Every night was archenemy with no upside
Poor Jim getting his rule 0 deck denied
yeah that's what I thought too 😅. which also probably means that this happen around their CRAG extra turns episode.... in turms of time period
At 30:15, on the topic deck power level, a tool I have found a lot of success with is spelltable. There are a lot of 6-7 pods (altered precons, no tutors or fast mana, rare combos, mostly basic lands) you can test decks on… but if you are unsure of if a deck will fit… the 7-8 pods are perfect. You can always host and/or join a game in minutes… and if you are playing anything that touches 8, you will see dual lands, tutors, combos… but not before turn 6-8. It’s a great place to see IF a strong deck you have will be frustrating for players at an LGS or if you will get wrecked by internet 8s and will be an appropriate 7. It’s also a great place to find higher lever games for those mean decks you don’t get to play very often.
I love Rakdos, Lord of Riots! I recently got back into commander and revamped him from 12 years of not playing. Love the content !
Concerning the other card types as rule 0 commanders I think it's fair to point out noncreature commanders already exist in the form of MDFCs. The Prismatic Bridge is an enchantment as commander, f. e. Other than that, I do agree with your take though. Know your audience is the most important aspect ;)
For the building fun decks questions:
Try to build a deck that doesn't take to much game time. So easy no extra turns or untap in opponents turns, not more than 3 to 4 boardwipes.
Cards that don't ask do you pay the one or two every gameaction your opponents take.
Most cards should be easy explain so no dauthi voidwalker or agathas soulcauldron stuff with long complicated text lines.
Not to many tutors including land ramp as shuffling takes time.
No storm stuff so like at peak at most like 4 to 6 spells from you in a turn cycle.
Not to many trigger triggers like cathars crusade
No combo kills without sorcory speed interaction possibilities or declare forehand this is a dangerous piece you might want to remove it otherwise i most likely will win next turn.
Not to much steal your stuff, destroy your lands, counter each spell etc... The general don't likes ... 1 or 2 is fine, but usually decks tend to have 7 extra turn spells and not just one 😅
For fun additions: cards that let your opponents make a choice but one time stuff like fact or fiction prisoners delema is another one i think ...
I liked oath of druids a lot. It takes game time, but everybody is involved and can be lucky...
Good luck building with that 😅
I totally get the feeling that the "fun decks to play against" question has. I have a few decks that I can legally play and they aren't always fun for them. My Shalai and Hallar deck has a "prevent spells on my turn" kind of card in it and 3 ways to just outright win the game, 2 are infinite combos and the last is a huge boardwide player removal with the right set up and enough bodies on the field. I have a Tinybones deck that has tons of discard and the one time I played it, I was near immediately nuked from orbit and made to watch the rest of the game basically on the sidelines. Finally, I have a Zimone deck and anyone who has played against Zimone, even just her precon set, can tell you just how oppressive she can be. Mine runs Vorinclex, World Hungerer so you can imagine how everyone reacts when that thing comes out.
I refuse to play against Zimone. It gets an automatic no from me it’s totally cracked
@@mightyfangs My buddy has his own version of this deck, which includes cards that I want for my deck like Abhorrent Oculus and Crucible of Worlds, and me and our other friend locked down his commander with Imprisoned In The Moon for the whole game and he still won thanks to a +1 lands per turn and a Scute Swarm that we didn't have a boardwipe for.
It's awesome you read my question. It was interesting to hear the response, and I agree with needing to keep the power levels fair for Rule Zero Commanders
That was a very neat question!
32:45 A fun restriction I've begun using a lot to power down my brews is only using cards available in an early modern frame printing (2003-2015). Scryfall even has a search term! "frame=2003"
I used to play against a guy who often played with Gengu of the Realms, but then would say no to other players rule zero commanders. I often thought about saying no to him because he would say no to others.
I would have absolutely shut him down, that's a wild ability that can easily get out of control
my next commander project; make a mono-blue deck that is only lands and creatures
Some guy tried playing Leyline of the Void as his rule zero commander and we laughed him out of the store. He's never come back.
Sad
Hearing the advice for starting content is making me think of a great channel: Quest for the Janklord. They started out with some creative ideas, filled a niche in the community (gameplay with hard-budget decks), and continue to make really entertaining stuff, even if it has less polish than shows like Game Knights.
I think a great way to control power level is to give your deck weaknesses or parameters. "This blink deck is going to have these 8 insane cards, but I'm going to avoid mass fog effects." "I'm going to run tutors for consistency but not grab Mikaeus / Triskelion unless I'm against a combo deck." "I'm going to pay 20 life to draw cards but not include lifegain." "This deck is going to use attack triggers but not include extra combat cards to go infinite."
This is especially relevant when building REALLY strong or hard to interact with commanders. IE: Narset planeswalker build with no extra turn cards. Niv-Mizzet, Parun but no card is worth more than $2 on the cheapest print. Or play really busted cards with a C+ level commander.
Sure, you won't win as many games, but it'll allow your deck to "do the thing" without being the big bad end boss every turn cycle.
Thanks for touching on rule 0. I've been planning a very silly casual Skeleton Ship/Skeleton Crew rule 0 partners and this encouraged me to go forward with it
I agree with the color rankings, but I will say in defense of red, that as a splash color in a deck, it usually brings the cards that actually win the game, especially in combo decks. Say impact tremors, goblin bombardment, firebrand archer etc
1:32:34 I think white is by far the most complete mono color in the format. It has absurd ramp abusing catch up ramp with bounce lands and lotus field type lands. It has good to great card draw often limited to once per turn, but with things like trouble in pairs, caretaker's talent, tocasia's welcome every deck archetype can find solid options in white. It has the best board wipe in the format along with a host of other amazing board wipes. Then interaction, recursion, it is still always at the top. It is the best color to build a mono colored deck.
I think I'll answer these questions as well. I think it'll be fun.
1. The short answer is that I'm addicted to deck building, and I passively brainstorm ideas for new decks all the time.
The more detailed answer is that I want to experience what it's like to build and play every kind of deck. I have an ever growing roster of decks to choose from, so I never get bored. (Currently 93 decks.)
The things that get my mind working on building a deck are either a mechanic, a tribe, a specific card, a commander, or a cool idea. I wanted to build a pirate rogue hybrid tribal deck well before outlaw existed as an example, and I held onto the idea long enough to allow cards to be printed that would support the strategy.
2. I own a Rule 0 Golos chaos/group hug deck. However, I built it before Golos was banned, and it's designed to accelerate the game with the group hug side, throw the game into chaos with the chaos side, and has no wincon. It's basically a stage hazard. If it wins, it's by pure luck. I also can't imagine any commander besides Golos at the helm. I don't bring it with me unless someone requests it.
3. I would politely decline playing against Purphoros and Krenko. Mostly because I'm sick of playing against the deck because they are always built the same way and play the same way.
4. I always aim for power level 7 unless I'm specifically wanting something on a different level.
5. I'm rarely the problem, so I don't know how to answer this question. I do know people who could use this advice and tone down their play style.
On the other hand, I would have a fun time playing against people on a lower power level because I actually have a lot of lower power decks I never get to play.
6. When I started playing I was given cards and there's many cards I have a special affinity with. The original Mirrodin block (Mirrodin, Darksteel, and Fifth Dawn), the original Kamigawa block (Champions of Kamigawa, Betrayers of Kamigawa, and Saviors of Kamigawa), and 8th Edition are what I was playing a lot of when I started. As such, I am partial to those sets and the cards in them. Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is probably at the top of that list. I do have a Kiki-Jiki commander deck.
7. No, as Josh and Rachel said, not only are cards designed with commander in mind now, but also there's more cards that do a similar thing. You want to ramp basic lands? In the past you basically had Nature's Lore, Rampant Growth, and Explosive Vegetation. Now you have more than 20 options that do something similar.
8. Never played Magic at a con unfortunately...
9. I have a few play groups. I think the ideal things to do involve being social. Either you can teach people how to play to form your own group, or you can talk to people at your LGS, find out stuff, get their number, get their social, figure out times to meet up. The real trick is finding people you get along with during a game and not argue with too often.
10. I've actually always wanted to start a Magic channel. Resources isn't the problem in my case...it's time. I just need more time. Also, with 93 commander decks, I got content. It's just time!
11. I'm an awkward introvert who freezes up and stutters a lot. I have had some training in college in a public speaking class and a professional practices class for art. Still, I could definitely use more practice getting to a point instead of rambling.
12 and 13. Not really questions intended for fans, but I really like Command Zone and enjoy hearing their responses to fans. My favorite episode...is unclear... I'm just not sure...I like so many...
14. Green, Blue, Black, Red, White
I put the colors in this order. Yes, they made some good arguments for white, but I feel like some details with red have been left out. I have a mono red Kiki-Jiki commander deck with dragon tribal and treasure sub-themes. Even with Dockside going away, red is still the king of treasure token production. That combined with impulse draw and rituals can paint a bigger picture of how fast and aggressive red can be. I'm saying all this even though one of my best decks is mono white (Loran).
Goldfish just posted a Commander Clash where they played spells as their Commanders...seemed very serendipitous since you guys talk about Rule Zero Commander question...
Not necessarily a question but idea that came when Rachel was talking about her alters. I think it’d be really cool for yall to do a full episode on cool collection ideas - lots of newer players in the last few years that may be less familiar or unfamiliar with: alters, artist proofs, artist signatures, tournament stamped cards, etc. be a cool way to showcase some community alter folks too
When it comes to playing your powerful decks against your local pod. I have found that it’s fun to just play those on spell table with others who have similar decks and strength. Then taking your more casual builds to meet your friend’s expectation in deck strength. I don’t have a card shop. I can go play with random people so I mostly just play spell table with randoms. Most people there know what they want to play against.
i got really into magic cause my friends played it, and going with them to the store for a few days really made it easier to hang out with random players, cause no matter what there is one thing that we all have in common :) and that is we like to play our decks and that's something that can be arranged even with random people :). plus it doesent have to go into a "now we are super friends" direction at all. The community is good people
My crazy story about finding a new play group... I moved to the middle of Arizona, 1.5 hours from a card store, but at that time I was pretty invested in college and MTG. I wrote my phone number down on some of the MTG display boxes at our local Walmart, and a group of people text me and we met for lunch one day, and the rest was history haha
I remember either from a tweet or his podcast Shivam said he would prefer to build a deck without the option than sandbag the option in hand. In reference to self regulating power level, in addition to removing things like tutors and fast mana and all that, just remove answers and make your win cons bigger. When my buddy started playing I would build decks with almost no interaction. If I wanted to deal with something it had to be in combat. If an artifact was problematic I had basically no way to stop it. If I was setting up a combo it would be like 5 or 6 cards to really go off rather than 2 or 3. It really helped him learn card interactions when he was able to just do his thing and not have me blow up the new creature he pulled that he wanted to try out. And it really helped me enjoy games more when I didn't have the answer in hand and could try to outpace building my board, rather than stare at my Swords to Plowshares or whatever in hand and just let it be a dead card for a few turns. Now I would say he is definitely on par with building decks as me, maybe even better, and even though I still know the rules more, he is in general a much more skilled player than he used to be and our games are almost always really close.
I will say this about the "32 deck challenge" trap: I'm doing it specifically because I want to better understand the color pie, and doing this the way I tend to brew (I avoid building decks "the way that everyone does" or playing painfully popular commanders unless there's a specific reason for it) has made me a much better player! Once I complete the 32, I'm just going to focus on my theme decks that feel the most like they clearly illustrate who I am as a person.
and regarding red as weakest color: There are a lot of busted cards in mono red, especially for commander. Descent to avernus comes to mind, Sneak Attack / Boar, Magdha, most of the treasure dragons - with some fast mana love, Red can close out games quite quickly.
And with chaos cards like Confusion in the ranks, Chaos Wand and Etali, it is definetely the most fun.
And you can actually make a Chandra Typal deck. Try to do that with any other planeswalker.
anyway, keep up the great content!
I don't have a question,i have an opinion,i honestly think that the "problem" with red is that is being played like the other colours,and not to it's own strengths.
Red is good in 60 card format with 20 life, it falls down when you can only have one lightning bolt in 100 card decks and your trying to kill 3 people with 40 life each. No t enough gas in card draw and you can't burn people enough, really there isn't enough of what red does well in 60 card formats that would work in commander.
Is there a specific process you go through to power *down* a deck? I recently put together a 5 colour Scion of the Ur Dragon deck and found that I can't really play it because it's too good for regular tables, but I like the deck and don't want to take it apart.
Take out 3 lands and your 2 strongest finishers, and then add a jank 4 card combo finish that has 1 substitute card. Then, when you play, actively try to hit this new wincon. You will miss land drops, which will slow you down, and by playing towards this new goal, your in-game decision making will change.
Your deck is now lower power.
Only use dragons that have ETB and/or dies triggers? This would change how the deck functions significantly.
17:20 I have a Malcolm, Breeches and, Francisco rule 0 deck. Mainly because I already had a Becket Brass commander deck and I didn't want to take it apart but also because pirates don't care about the rules. The deck also still has a hullbreacher and dockside in it. Very fun to play when some of my friends play their rule 0 decks.
If I'm playing against randoms, I use Becket Brass as my commander and swap out the banned cards if they don't want to play against it as a rule 0 deck.
What should I bring to Magic Con? "What you would bring on a long hike. + 4 decks"
What are some things you should know before making gameplay content? " Cue Shia La Beouf meme!"
Good stuff guys!
1:04:50
Go get it
Thats what i did!!!
Love you guys, love the content. Keep it up!
✌️
Interestingly EDHREC shows the number of each mono-color decks and from most to least it goes red, black, white, blue, then green.
What are your thoughts about that as it relates to your color rankings?
I have a question closely related to commanders you refuse to play against. Which Commanders will you tend to target first if you see them at a table?
Following up in rule zero commanders in partner, does your opinion change if the two creatures have Meld? For example, a mono white Gisela/Bruna deck, or a rakdos Mishra/Dragon Engine deck? The deck still functions legally as a non-partner deck, but does benefit from having Partner.
As soon as you said it was a UB ozilith deck I knew exactly who you were talking about. I love that bree she made.
who was it?
As far as deciding deck power level I break it into 4 things. Combos, tutors, fast mana, and who the commander is because some commanders are inherently better. Usually if you have 2 or less of these your deck is typically fine.
I have a tergrid deck that is my absolute baby, and I totally do the “one game per session” rule with it.
I know nobody wants to do this all evening but MAYBE JUST ONCE it’s fun cuz the table can band together and try and knock me out first!
A way I like to control my EDH-decks are the I can't have the same card in two or more decks; i.e. if I want to play demonic tutor and have 2 edh decks with black in them, only one of them can have demonic tutor in it. I've got 6 decks right now and it gets really tricky AND fun to try and put together decks NOT using obivous staples but having to find different options. I also get to see and play with more and different cards..
Fun episode about popular 99 cards to put into your deck or that show play in commander. Rhystic Study Sol Ring etc. 😅
I built a Gisa, the Hellraiser and Geralf, the fleshwright rule 0 partners deck recently and my main pod decided to just remove ward and giving zombies menace. It worked over very well and felt balanced. Sometimes it takes little tweaks to make it more fair. Dimir zombies definitely has lots of support, but these two felt right paired together
Commenting on the rule 0 commanders, specifically the “there’s a power cap on rule 0 commanders” bit:
For pride last year, when they had the “all commanders have partner” event, I made a Delney/Shirei deck. Both solid commanders with strict limitations that keep them in check. But once I was able to put them together, wow was it busted. Who knew multiple triggers of blood artist effects could be so strong /s I obviously took it apart because it was too strong to justify keeping it together in a pod that’s mostly casual. That being said, I’ve been allowed by my pod to remake the deck for pride again, so I guess every year it’ll just be my deck of the month lol. Cause GOSH was it so fun to play! Using Preston the vanisher with shirei? Getting multiple copies of your stuff and even more copies with delney? WILD
"I'm an adult. No one is going to stuff me in a locker."
💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼
29:56 I would also suggest trying out group hug…there are fun strategies that can aid everyone at the table. I build a Maze’s End deck with Pyxis of Pandemonium…it was a thing of beauty. Pyxis allows you to say to the table. Keep me alive X more rounds and then I will crack open the Pyxis. Amazing insane games.
another question on rule zero, commanders...Nephilim. Mark Rosewater states that they were "technically" legendary.
The alternate funcon thing is a good goal. In every game, I usually set a goal, and if i am able to cast the minimum spells required to achieve that gial, im happy, even if I get blown out by a counterspell or other interaction. My deck did the thing, and whatever happens after happens.
I use Delay instead of counterspell because it makes that boardwipe a strategic counter. Do you fill the board for 3 turns blowing away your opponents or do you stockpile for that final counter to go off and go ham - likely with the rest of the table. Its not, better, just adds more flavour to games.
My LGS has had Commander night for a year now. It started because one person who knew the store owner said "why don't you try this?" And now we have 4 tables every week and we're growing. If your LGS doesn't have a Magic night, see if you can start one.
I am also in Brody's position: I recommend building some jank stuff. Looking for janky and goofy cards is still rewarding as an invested player. It also makes the games much more fun.
My favorite "bling" deck is an unsleeved deck if VERY heavy played cards. Like Josh's "wave" deck. Cards from as far hack as ABU. Scuffed from the sidewalk, faded.. well loved. It's the deck i play in contrast to my (work in progress) actually blinged deck of my judge foils and old frame foils.
On the "How do you build fun decks to play against" (and also "slowing down game" too)
In my play group, we've fallen behind mtg release (for motivation reason toward the game as is it going right now)
So we build cubes. 20x3 packs, 2 cards picked at a time, At the end of the draft, you choose a legendary creature, shuffle, and every card is a MDFC Command tower, no basic.
It takes 20min to 30min to draft, there is no building step, if a cards isn't in your commander identity you can try to mana cheat it, use treasures, or use it as a command tower.
We keep two stables cubes: an entrypoint cube with 500 curated cards (basically cards with easy to read and understand text boxes, lot of support of synergies) and one unhinged 1000+ cards cube with strong effects.
Cubes let you play those cards you never put on your decks, and even with the chaosiest pool of cards, you probably will have fun.
You can also control the power level or speed of the game.
An other thing about the speed of the game: I think the main factor of power creep is cards doing too many things, most recent cards are both the engine, the fuel and the pay off.
Where you needed 3 cards to build a synergie, you only need one. Where you had niche redundancy, now you have go-everywhere good stuff ready to combo.
Creatures that had to deal combat damage, only had to attack, then only had to see other creatures attack.
Creature effect which triggered after a turn now triggers when they enter too.
The game speeds up because you need less resources and less turn to do the same splashy effect.
If I had a magic wand, I would just ask: split all cards that make multiple effects into that much simplier cards.
Having an alternate goal to consider a game as a win can be fun. I have a group hug deck that I go into games with a plan to come in second. I empower other played decks to pop off so they don't want to kill me.
The easiest and best way to lower power level is raising the curve. If there's an effect you want and they have a 3 CMC option and a 4 CMC option opt for the 4. Instead of mostly 0 or two mana rocks opt for 3 mana. Reducing efficiency is the best antidote for power.
I know they'll do it eventually, it's inevitable at this point, but I would love to see a background like mechanic that can apply to any legendary creature that doesn't have partner already. It could have building restriction like companions but I think it would be super interesting. Would it be broken? Probably. But the possibilities would be endless
I have a Q. How do you think red can improve in Commander? The draw and discard style of draw in red can be great for certain decks but detrimental to others. Same with impulse draw.
52:11 in my opinion one way to slow games down is to stop playing infinite loops or infinite dmg things...
Recouring effekts just happen one time every turn and now you don't have to worry about somebody to win on the spot.
Impact tremor is a good example for a card. If this happens only once... sure the card is bad now. But it will not whipe a whole table and we play magic again.
11:36 my first blue/white deck was Millicent and I only picked her up because I was at my LGS and somehow I completely missed that precon. I picked it up and liked the way it can cheat commander tax And didn’t own a god token deck but I fell in love with it after a few games where I dropped an angels’ trumpet and watched it warp and accelerate the game plan. I really wanted to find a place for that card and as a bonus it made blue/white which are normally control colors wish in a way where it plays control then shifts to aggro out of no where and that play pattern is incredibly fun
Personally, i don't like high power tables. I used to build decks, still have a kindred collection, but nowadays i only enjoy playing with precons and if someone doesn't have one, i try offering them one from my own collection and they usually accept, maybe because it's a new experience playing with a different deck.
24:45 I have one deck like that. My tutor in Anikthea is The Creation of Avacyn just because it is an enchantment and it fits the theme because I also have Avacyn's Pilgrim for ramp and Avacyn herself
I did the deck of every color, and i have multiple more decks. I do so because I love to play trolling type of decks and i know people would hate to play them every game so i have multiple decks to change things up every game. Like i love chaos, group hug, pramacon, and my O-Kagachi "are you sure you want to do that?" Deck that plays cards that punish people that try to attack me, deal damage to me, or combo. Like deflecting palm.
With my magic wand I would get rid of any cards with the same mann costs and new abilities. More abilities and more power meets more mana or loss of life or downsides to play them.
There are so many cards with the same manna values and more powerful effects every set.
The legendary rule applies now to card converted manna costs
What's the best way to prevent a group's decks from developing into an arms race of sorts where the power level keeps escalating?
I admit I was what started this with some of my decks but I've stopped and was wanting to know how I can determine whether it's gone too far
Finding out Rachel is in the stand up world as well is wild.
I loved the stats video you referenced, it would be super cool to see an updated one! I wonder if white has gotten more popular 🤔
Golgari is also the most diverse colour combination of all two colour variants in my opinion. It has so many different archetypes.
For that rule 0 question I really feel that about trying to limit the power of it to keep it from feeling unfair. I have a rule 0 deck that I built with maelstrom Archangel that I started by just wanting to play as many of the legendary angels as I could, but I ended up removing some of the more specific angel synergy and now it's more of a WUBRG color-matters big stompy deck that just happens to have a lot of angels in it. I do like where it ended up and I hope people have fun against it but it's definitely toeing the line more than it would be if I left it as it was before.
I have a question: How does the process of building decks for your personal collection differ from building decks for on camera? Is it a major difference trying to build decks strictly to win vs building a deck that's fun to watch on camera?
For context: I built a Rocco, Street Chef with the intent of making a deck that was fun for the whole table to play against. It can win and its a good deck, but it was built with that unique goal. And it was a Christmas themed deck!
As a 33 year old parent that loves MTG and has a lifelong battle with obsessive tendencies.. Rachel’s “Congratulations Mr Bedtime” killed me 🤣
I love the rule0 commanders! As long as it is reasonable of course. The 2 rule0 commander decks i have are a 5 color mutate godzilla deck with surgeon general commander as commander (5c manadork who lets you draw a card whenever you mutate) and a azorius dungeon deck based around the baldurs gate draft dungeon as undercity. The draft undercity has more powerful but generic last rooms, but take longer to get there. Both decks are strong, but nog stronger nor weaker than my other decks.
Another thing about Power Creep is say that there's a new card or mechanic that pushes an older card or mechanic.
Yeah. It’s also nice to see when something comes back and even if it doesn’t make an old card or mechanic good, but makes it a little more robust. Thunder Junction is finally letting me live my Mercenary deck dreams. Maybe. I’ve been out of the game for years, so I’m missing a lot.
One of my friends knows that he is a big min-max deckbuilder, in that vein he plays only pauper commander decks against our play group. This allows him to optimize the deck to its maximum but also have a deck thats not too over the top compared to more budget decks.
I have a Liliana, Heretical Healer Vorthos deck. Every card in it is either has Liliana in the art, is a “Liliana’s something” card, has a Liliana quote, or is tied to her in Lore. I have never once been allowed to rule 0 Griselbrand into the 99. So I have Ormendahl 😢 as the fourth demon. It’s a land so it doesn’t break my rules of all Liliana as much.
I think the average casual EDH table might be closer to PL6 than to PL7, considering that recent precons are maybe PL4 or PL5 right out of the box, and a lot of players here use moderately upgraded versions of these. Most of our other players attempt to homebrew at roughly the same level.
Chicago in the winter is very dry, don’t slack on the water and chapstick there either.
I also don't have any decks I won't play against. But there are definitely decks (commanders) I'll complain about while playing against it.
Balancing playgroup power is one of the hardest things to do. The best way to judge it is to see how it *feels* to play the decks.
We have players who build fun theme decks, and then a single player who exclusively builds to win at all costs. It is a rough toss up. He is the guy who will lose to leathal damage and then boardwipe in response just to jack up the table on his way out.
I know that just feeling out decks is how I have to assess how I built them.
For example I got a Tamiyo, Inquisitive Student from a release, and decided to toss together a deck that was pretty much all draw and payouts for draw. Turns out that my goofy deck that was just focused on touching all the cards in my library was grossly overpowered compared to everyone else that I played.
Honestly, one of my favorite ways to find a commander to build around nowadays is to participate in things like the Archidekt deck building challenges. My newest favorite deck came from their “hidden commander” challenge.
Alternatively, I tune into podcasts like this one or SAWLM and listen to what other folks are enjoying. I don’t tend to mirror exactly what other people do, but I like to springboard off their ideas and take them in different directions.