Brat Pack: One of the Darkest Comics Ever Deconstructs the Idea of Sidekicks
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- Brat Pack by writer and artist Rick Veitch is an important book that deconstructs the idea of the teen sidekick. Similar to books like Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen, Brat Pack places the tropes of the teen sidekick into a more realistic, harsher world. It's deeply cynical, full of black humor and is ultimately Rick Veitch's commentary on the comics industry itself. This video looks at both the book, the context of when it took place, and Rick Veitch's history and techniques as a writer, artist and self-publisher.
Those numbers were NOT toll-free. You had to *pay* to save Robin. Maybe that's why he died.
Well you also had to pay to kill him, so...
@@Mun3001s thats twice as disturbing and nobody though about it
Also, 'Kill Robin' won by about the same percentage of the vote as Hillary and Brexit. Not an important point, perhaps but it was a virtual toss-up. Also, having Robin die at that point made vague references in The Dark Knight Returns into prophecy. Fans love continuity.
*EA wants to know your location*
Yeah I caught absolute HELL off my Mum and Dad for calling that line....from the U.K!
The "vote for Robin dying/surviving" was NOT a toll-free call, it cost money
So what your saying is that the rich linched a kid that they did not like.
Timothy Byrne so basically Texas
Timothy Byrne lynched*
shnpio congratulations on being a pedantic prick, my friend.
Bruh ya all white here
I've come to realize that the reason I don't care much for deconstruction is that I grew up in the 90s, back then everyone was trying to be dark and edgy and deconstructive, not to mention the real world was in crisis throughout my life, so I guess I'm kinda burned out; I need some optimism
MakiPcr Good idea. Reconstruction is where it’s at
The Weed got a Lot better...
Yuuuuup
@@jamesvanitas 100%
@Stix N' Stones true
That intro was gold
Virginia Golds.
It's gold Jerry, gold!
Comics Troop but I'm a Hardcore Fan is Linkara
Atop The Fourth Wall: Were Bad Comics Burn
He cool though
more like cringe
ѕo wєrє thє cíg.....αwww í wαѕ вєαtєn tσ ít, rєpєαtєdlч....
This is how Stan Lee view sidekicks when he created Spider-Man.
Exactly.
Except that’s was more Steve Ditko’s idea. Steve plotted and did the art for the first 3 years of Spider-Man.
Yuuuuup
@@radentruman7535 actually stan came up with the idea for a bug themed hero, and he had Jack Kirby originally do the costume design for Spiderman before he asked Steve to change it. Later he changed Peters age from what he planned which was 30s to late teens. Steve ditko hated the fact that Peter was young and constantly tried making him look childish and incompiatan thought stan over ruled these choices.
Actually dc had spiderman first it was a character named the tarantula created in the 1940s ge was bug theme stuck to walls and had webshooters
Actually the Judge is more Captain America. I think he comes off like the Punisher but each character is based on ones that had sidekicks or young derivatives. In this case Bucky. Still a great video.
Is that really an apt comparison though, CA was never even slightly racist till his Ultimates version.
@@Clay3613 To be fair this is one of those things that when people deconstruct Captain America they go the route of America is not as great as you think, so they tend latch on every problem with America to the character. From being racist, a Capitalist, and often the hot button issue at the time like say the Iraq War. the American from Dark Horse and Ultimate Captain America are good examples, another one is some from Marshal Law and THe Boys, even Captain America has U.S.Agent.
@@Clay3613 Again not many actual Superheroes are racist. In the story itself the Wonder Woman stand in actually forces abortions on the female sidekick, and Wonder Woman as we know her would NEVER do that. I'm just saying that when people deconstruct superheores the Captain America stand in is often racist to bring up that idea of ideals being under minded by reality. Captain America is used often because for a lot of people his brand of Patriotism is old fashioned and brings up the problems of the past. Cap is also from the past so ergo he HAS to have backwards views. Now I find that dumb on some level but that is where the logic comes from.
Sorry, but I can't stop laughing and giggling, Matrix. I keep hearing Straight Shooter saying his lines in a humorously high-pitched voice.
He sounded more like the Comedian... who’s creator this guy had already worked with BUT what if it was just some creative liberty used by the CREATOR to tell the story he wanted to tell
Instead of limiting himself to just heroes with pedo bait sidekicks
A few days after the first time I watched this I went to my towns comic shop and asked the guy if he had "a possibly obscure maybe older comic called BratPack" and the dude walked over to a section and pulled out a hidden copy. Like he was waiting for someone to ask about it.
Or to be used as toilet paper😂😂😂
Thank you. Someone with a weak stomach like me would rather talk about the comic than actually read it.
Just read it and yeah it's pretty fucked up.
I'm undecided too...I like the ideas and subversiveness, like the recruits having to kill their parents so they can be orphans like other superheroes, but I think The Tick might more my thing.
pussy
I don't know why but I'm obsessed with mature rated hard stuffs like comics, movies, games etc
V - Trigger we should talk
If you bought a pack of cigarettes just for the joke intro, then that sir is great dedication to the cause 😂
It reminded me of George Costanza in the scene from "Seinfeld", where he pretends that he smokes a lot.
it’s 5 dollars
Bob714 $40 is about the cheapest pack of cigarettes in Australia
McBain that’s why u don’t live there
Bob714 i do live there
I just read all of Brat Pack and I need to go watch a Disney movie or something... lol
@Figeur Naggette
I'd do a Murdock speech but Im too lazy so,maybe one day
Or maybe Im too embarrassed
Who knows
@@thisguy1640 thanks charles bukowski
Same
halfway through the book I went into my dads liquor cabinet
Just don't watch Pixar, especially Toy story 3 and UP.
swear to god half these writers read one issue of watchmen and figured the secret to deconstruction is just being as dark and edgy as humanly possible
Yeah. This comic is a great example of that. There's very little actual plot: it's mostly just the superheroes being depraved in ways that make it nonsensical that anyone think they are heroes. For example, Moon Mistress attacks random men at a baseball game and doesn't even pretend they are villains yet, for some reason, everyone still thinks she is a hero. The original ending (since I haven't read the revised version) comes out of nowhere.
@@a.dennis4835 tbh the cover art alone is more interesting than the entire book lmao, based on that and the title I thought it was gonna genuinely explore more complex ideas like how these young heroes are technically celebrities and have to stress about the type of shit that comes with that life like beauty standards, addiction, manipulation, grooming etc, and while the book tries to look at some of those ideas, there is basically 0 subtlety and it's literally as crude, in your face and just nasty as humanly possible
That's how it goes in the world today; a smart idea gets looted, all the subversion is stripped out and only the most obvious signifiers remain to be sold to the masses like processed gruel.
The most visible examples are usually in media and politics. Che Guevara merch, or even more on the nose, nearly every adaptation of Moore's work.
The anime series Tiger and Bunny proves that you can have an obvious deconstruction of superheroes without being edgy, cynical and super violent.
It's pretty much both a deconstruction of and love letter to American superhero stories.
@@nightmarefanatic1819 Heck I think Venture Brothers might also be a good example of a deconstruction done right....
Rick Veitch's Brat Pack is a tremendous read, and so disturbing. All his self-published work is thought provoking, but I think it holds true for his more mainstream work as well. I think the main reason people overlook him is that he draws his characters as fugly. There are no perfect or idealized beings in his work. Everyone feels human, but at their worst. Lumpy, dishevelled, grimy... Real.
Sidekidcks and how they are depicted was a very good topic for a comic trope video.
Cardboard Bots it’s oh so ugly though not a fan of the artwork
Agreed and although I don't find him fugly, I see a lot of Veitch's likeness in his art. 1:47
Cool
I've been wanting to create my own comics for a long time. Watching these videos produced a weird feeling because it somehow inspired and intimidated me at the same time. Hearing about these great creators and their works makes me want to create something just as good, but it also made me realize how little I know about the medium, especially on the aspect of illustrating.
Hey there, made any progress?
@@TheMightofDab sadly doesn’t seem like it
Gotta say, the fact that you feel both inspired and intimidated makes me think you're smart enough to understand how difficult it is to create a good story. But that intimidation of ignorance can overwhelm you, never wanting to take the first step because you're afraid you'll fail. Don't get eaten up by it. Find a way. You'll make it somehow. And if you don't... Eh. You'll have fun whether you succeed or not.
I read Bratpack during it's initial print run. A little *too* depressing for my taste...
Agreeable. I don't need any more depressing things inside my head.
Agreed
Disagreed
I love it bc its real, its not an escape, its how shit really happens in the real world
@Stix N' Stones I like depressing shit, but not gratuitious edginess to the levels of "diabolus ex machina" where terrible shit just happens because the author feels like it.
Throwing some wholesomeness whenever is possible makes a depressing story much more powerful.
So I read that if you watch a ad all the way through, it helps the video creator more. I love this channel so much I sat through 5 minutes of a BlazeTV ad and a 2 minute Manscaping video.........Hope you appreciate that!
That might just be one of the most wholesome youtube comments i've ever read
A five minute BlazeTV ad? You deserve a medal. I love the channel, but I think that might break me. haha
@Dion St. Michael your speak is blasphemy
Holy shit
At least its not the 18 minute titanic rebuild ad.
It's nice to see a video on this. One thing though, Judge Jury and Kid Vicious are supposed to be based on Captain America and Bucky, not the Punisher, according to the original proposal written by Veitch. It also points out who the other analogues are too. So King Rad and Wild Boy are Green Arrow and Speedy, Midnight Mink and Chippy are Batman and Robin, Moon Goddess and Luna are Wonder Woman and Etta Candy, and Overman and Jack Cricket are Superman and Jimmy Olsen.
If you get the recently released IDW reprint of this, you can see the proposal where it details all of this in the back of the book.
Get OWNED.
Yeah, I have a burning hatred of deconstruction stories.
Not because I hate the idea of deconstruction, but because the writers are more concerned about the message than actually telling a story.
Watchmen is really the only deconstruction story that I liked because while the message is there, it also told an interesting story with complex characters.
Thank you dear God
What about Hunter x Hunter?
I mean you’d have to have an understanding of the Shonen genre and its various tropes but its a great deconstruction of that genre while (like you said) maintaining an interesting cast of characters with complexities of their own. I dont know if you like Shonen but if so maybe give it a shot
The deconstruction genre is very important to right the ship when it starts too far off into lala land. Without watchman, dark knight, brat pack etc we wouldn't have the awesome mainstream comics that came as a result.
In fact a lot of the best stories like all star superman are direct replies to deconstructionism. You don't have to like it but we should appreciate it for furthering the conversation.
@@josephmatthews7698 When the best impotance you can come up with for deconstruction stories are the great stories made to REJECT what those deconstruction stories are trying to say, that's not really a good sign.
Stuff like Brat Pack, The Boys, and other stories like them are not deconstruction, they're just edgy bullshit for the sake of edgy bullshit...and sadly, the edgy cynical bullshit most of these deconstruction stories push HAS actually seeped into mainstream comics (has been since the 90s) for the absolute worse.
May I recommend you read Spawn, Super Crooks and The Crow
Super Crooks isn’t edgy, Spawn has strong emotional scenes and The Crow. Wow The Crow is just beautiful
Whaaat! I got the gashapon!... As always, nice video! The phrase Brat Pack was actually used un the 80's referring to actors who played a role as teenagers in teenage targeted movies. I believe it's really well used.
Yeah no. Lol
I second the "uh no..."
Believe whatever you want i guess, lol
I remember the term "The Brat Pack" being used to refer to the casts of "The Breakfast Club" and "St. Elmo's Fire", somewhat as a callback to "The Rat Pack", consisting of Frank Sinatra et al.
Just checked; there's a Wikipedia article on it.
I remember reading this when it came out. I remember it being dirty, and horrifying, and subversive. It really warped my 14 year old mind. Sorry to hear the ending changed. I liked the original ending. It just went to show how pointless the whole thing was.
Awesome video. I came across the first four issues of The Brat Pack in a used books store who had a backroom filled with piles of comics. I spent the rest of the day in that backroom going through the piles of comics looking for full arcs of different stories. The clerk gave me a deal because I bought enough comics to fill a paper grocery bag and sorted out a good amount of the comics into their respective titles. I went back a week later and found out the owner didn't want anyone in the backroom because he was planning on going through the comics to look for any collectible issues. He had bought them at an estate sale and put them in the backroom. His wife was the clerk and she would let me go in the back to go through the comics. In return, I sorted them by their titles and arranged them on the shelves with alphabetical dividers. Any collectible issues I found(any comic priced 25¢ and under), I set aside. I spent my next couple of Saturdays going through comics. It was great.
"Doctor Blasphemy is on the loose again, for Christ's sake!"
Lol.
The idea is neat but holy shit this is just OVERTLY edgy. I think my favorite example is how the parents are killed, can't just off them and get to the point nah. Gotta tear them apart and fucking write "666" on the walls. Or how all these heavy issues are mishmashed in as a decoration, none of them are truely explored.
It's all for shock, especially with how the three early sidekicks barring the protag are portrayed as assholes, blown up and disposed of early despite being troubled kids.
This comic looks pretty bad
Sounds like am edgy teenage boy who is very upset trying to write and offensive comic, and knows they have to explore dark themes, but doesn't actually understand the complexities themselves, so their critique comes off surface level at best and makes their inclusion in the story feel haphazard and surface level.
@@ronnie8330 Right?
That seemed weird. Like... isn't the point that we're supposed to empathize with what the super heroes are doing to these children? But the story seems like it only wants us to give a shit about one person's struggles, and everyone else's are background dressing.
I have issues with the idea of "enjoying the misery of the heroes", because I read superhero comics for the escapism, not to feel guilty!
Honestly it makes sense that kid superheroes would have ego issues and be actual assholes. Between hormones and the lifestyle it's amazing all of them isnt it
IDW recently reprinted BRAT PACK in hardcover form. But many years prior, Rick Veitch had published his own limited-edition hardcover collection of the series through King Hell Press. Needless to say, it offered a better presentation of the material than the softcover versions that existed at the time. It's worth tracking down if you're a completist.
Well done reading here. I first encountered Veitch's work in Epic, in particular "Abraxas And The Earthman." Veitch is pretty grim, and I think his style has a bit of underground grotesque. But I do not know a better American artist/writer who has come through mainstream comics to produce some of the most original and thought-provoking work. Nice job here. "Brat Pack" is pretty dark. I think the sheer extreme aspect goes far beyond anything by Miller or Moore. Veitch not only deconstructs comics per se, but the concepts around comics. Brat Pack is sort of a Werthamesque wet dream about Superheroes. You can never read Batman the same after Brat Pack. Funny thing, I liked Netflix's "Punisher," but the second season couldn't resist inserting a side-kick.
6:30 I... I don't think Kid Vicious is peeing in that alley.....
@@sbravo3761 yup that is
At first that's what I thought, he was jerking it, but then I looked closer and remembered that any type of toxins leaving your body when you pee is like peeing fire (I think we've all had that experience one time or another) and it doesn't look like his hands/arms are moving, more like he's bracing himself for what's to come.
Cock and ball torture (CBT), penis torture or dick torture is a sexual activity involving application of pain or constriction to the penis or testicles. This may involve directly painful activities, such as genital piercing, wax play, genital spanking, squeezing, ball-busting, genital flogging, urethral play, tickle torture, erotic electrostimulation or even kicking.[1] The recipient of such activities may receive direct physical pleasure via masochism, or emotional pleasure through erotic humiliation, or knowledge that the play is pleasing to a sadistic dominant. Many of these practices carry significant health risks.[2]
CBT in Japan
Ball busting demonstration in public at Folsom Street Fair, USA Tamakeri (玉蹴り) (lit. ball kicking) is a sexual fetish and subgenre of BDSM within which a man's testicles are abused. The genre is also referred to as ballbusting ("bb" for short).[3][4] Tamakeri is the Japanese term, but it is used by many non-Japanese people to describe media where Asian people- mainly women- are participating in it. The dynamics of tamakeri consist of a masochist having their testicles hurt by a sadist.[5] The fetish is popular among heterosexual and homosexual men and women.[6] In hentai communities, it is often identified by either "tamakeri", or "crotch_kick".[7][8]
Denkianma (電気按摩) (lit. "electric massage") is a popular Japanese prank played between two people where one person puts their foot into the genital area of the other and shakes it in a vibrating motion.[9][10] Often this is done by grabbing the other person's feet, raising them, and then placing one's own foot on their crotch and vibrating it. This is often done between school aged boys as a prank similar to kancho and could be seen by a western audience as a type of bullying. In 2007 the crisps company Doritos released a new flavour of potato chip called "Denkianma".[11]
Devices
Similar to many other sexual activities, CBT can be performed using toys and devices to make the penis and testicles more easily accessible for attack, or for foreplay purposes.[12][13]
Ball stretcher
A single metal ball stretcher and cock ring, which forces erection. A ball stretcher is a sex toy that is used to elongate the scrotum and provide a feeling of weight pulling the testicles away from the body. This can be particularly enjoyable for the wearer as it can make an orgasm more intense, as testicles are prevented from moving up. Intended to make one's testicles permanently hang much lower than before (if used regularly for extended periods of time), this sex toy can be potentially harmful to the male genitals as the circulation of blood can be easily cut off if over-tightened.
While leather stretchers are most common, other models consist of an assortment of steel rings that fastens with screws, causing additional but only mildly uncomfortable weight to the wearer's testicles. The length of the stretcher may vary from 1-4 inches.[14] A more dangerous type of ball stretcher can be home-made simply by wrapping rope or string around one's scrotum until it is eventually stretched to the desired length.
Ball crusher A ball crusher is a device made from either metal or often clear acrylic that squeezes the testicles slowly by turning a nut or screw. How tight it is clamped depends on the pain tolerance of the person it is used on. A ball crusher is often combined with bondage, either with a partner or by oneself.
Parachute A parachute is a small collar, usually made from leather, which fastens around the scrotum, and from which weights can be hung. It is conical in shape, with three or four short chains hanging beneath, to which weights can be attached.
Used as part of cock and ball torture within a BDSM relationship, the parachute provides a constant drag, and a squeezing effect on the testicles. Moderate weights of 3-5 kg can be suspended, especially during bondage, though occasionally much heavier weights are used. Smaller weights can be used when the male wearing it is free to move; the swinging effect of the weight can restrict sudden movements, as well as providing a visual stimulus for the dominant partner.[citation needed]
Humbler
Man with humbler A humbler is a BDSM physical restraint device used to restrict the movement of a submissive male participant in a BDSM scene.
The humbler consists of a testicle cuff device that clamps around the base of the scrotum, mounted in the center of a bar that passes behind the thighs at the base of the buttocks. This forces the wearer to keep his legs folded forward, as any attempt to straighten the legs even slightly pulls hard on the scrotum, causing from considerable discomfort to extreme pain.
Testicle cuffs A testicle cuff is a ring-shaped device around the scrotum between the body and the testicles which when closed does not allow the testicles to slide through it. A common type has two connected cuffs, one around the scrotum and the other around the base of the penis. They are just one of many devices to restrain the male genitalia. A standard padlock may also be locked around the scrotum; without the key it cannot be removed.
Some passive men enjoy the feeling of being "owned", while dominant individuals enjoy the sense of "owning" their partners. Requiring such a man wear testicle cuffs symbolizes that his sexual organs belong to his partner, who may be either male or female. There is a level of humiliation involved, by which they find sexual arousal. The cuffs may even form part of a sexual fetish of the wearer or his partner.[citation needed]
However, these are extreme uses of testicle cuffs. More conventionally, the device pulls down the testicles and keeps them there during stimulation, which has a number of benefits:
Making the penis appear longer. Pulling the testicles down and away from the base of the penis stretches the skin over the base of the penis and pubic bone, exposing the additional inch or so of penile shaft that is normally hidden from view. Improving sexual arousal. While some men may be aroused by the feeling of being "owned", the physical feeling of stretching the ligaments that suspend the testicles has an effect similar to the more common practice of stretching one's legs and pointing the toes. Preventing the testicles from lifting up so far that they become lodged under the skin immediately adjacent to the base of the penis, a condition which can be very uncomfortable, especially if the testicle is then squashed by the slap of skin during thrusting in sexual intercourse. Delaying or intensifying ejaculation by preventing the testicles from rising normally to the "point of no return". It is much harder to reach an orgasm. Cock harness A cock harness is a penile sex toy designed to be worn around the penis and scrotum. Its function is similar to that of a cock ring. These devices are often associated with BDSM activities. The Gates of Hell is a male chastity device made up of multiple cock rings that can be used for CBT.[15] Kali's Teeth is a metal bracelet with interior spikes that closes around the penis and can be used for preventing or punishing erections.[16]
@@sjh5465 now that's hot
@@sjh5465 I would not have expect a guy with a ghost lego anakin pfp to go into detail about testicle torture
That intro reminded me of myself when i tried to impress my crush by smoking since she was a smoker.
Funnily enough she didn't date me because i was a smoker she dated me because i made her laugh and happy
The cover of Green Lantern/Green Arrow with Speedy's heroin problem is so fitting for this episode it hurts.
i love the way this guy talks about his fanart, it's honestly adorable
"Live fast. Love hard. Die with your mask on" Great video as always. Read Brat Pack for the first time two years ago when the owner of my lcs gave me the run (minus issue 4) and other underground comics he deemed "unsalable." Enjoyed them enough to seek out the Brat Pack/Maximortal Super Specials and the Maximortal tpb. Still haven't read the Boy Maximortal yet, but in due time.
Another great underrated book in the same satirical, deconstructionist view I would love to see you cover is the original six issue series of Pat Mills and Kevin O'Neill's Marshal Law. One of my personal favorites, and was essentially to me at a young age what Watchmen or TDKR was to other readers.
5:39 sounds like hentai tags you commonly see on the front page nhentai
It would be perfect if it also had "scat"
Japan was a mistake
177103 tho
Can confirm. source: my browsing history
the good stuff
Man, I’ve been hoping you would profile Rick Veitch since I subscribed. IMHO, he’s a genius. The natural flow of his figure work, his facial expressions that hide and tell, his love/hate take on American culture and kitsch, the psychedelic trips...and his writing is great, too. He is one of a kind. A true maverick. A comics artist’s comics artist. It’s a failure of the comics industry that Veitch isn’t on shelves in color, because we know the man can produce...they just don’t know what to do with him (Here’s a tip, let Veitch be Veitch...It may not sell, but it'll be one hell of a read). Just this week I dug out Teknophage to give it a re-read, and your video drops days later...that’s some spooky Rare Bit Fiends sh*t. Thank you! I'm a big fan of what you're doing.
I loved the Brat Pack. Please do an episode on Marshal Law. Marshal Law is another great book deconstructing super heroes and comic books, it's full of social and political satire. Every once in awhile I'll go back and re-read the original mini-series.
One correction: it was Tolteben who first introduced John Constantine in Swamp Thing 25. He told me the story himself when I visited him at his house in Erie, PA in 1999. As he put it, "Abby was a beautiful woman with silver hair. Seemed likely that she should get a stalker. I told Steve my idea and he said 'Yeah, man! Do it!' We (Tolteben & Bisette) let a few months go by before we even told Alan what we did. Next thing we know, he takes that ball and gives us this whole other take on this character."
How did you meet him?
@@pericleslegendario7022 An old family friend was a neighbor of his back then. During a visit, they learned I was a fan and made a call.
The 1-900 numbers weren't toll-free. You had to pay to vote, which is probably why the result ended up being what it was; people with so much money they can afford to throw it away on a decision about a comic book character are probably lacking in empathy and more likely to want to see the pointlessly grimdark execution of a fictional teenaged boy.
NoJusticeNoPeace think you’re going a bit deep there. People voted to kill him because killing him would be an actual change to the story and voting to keep him alive would be boring
It's pretty well known that the vote was really narrow, and it's probable that there was some vote stuffing from someone who set up and automatic calling thing.
I always wonder how a vote like that would have gone over in our age of the internet and e-mails?
I don’t know if I agree 100% but I do think people who wanted Robin to die were more likely to spend money to say so.
Also consider that this was Jason Todd. People hated him cause he acted like a asshole, people liked Dick much better.
Found a Brat Pack #1 in a garage sale! Would not have picked it up if it weren't for this video! Keep up the great videos!
Wonderful presentation of a great selection. I really appreciate you spotlighting comics from the 70's and 80's dark ages. Dark not as in Frank Miller (though there was that) but as in lost history, before everything had a life online, and giving the context both in the comics medium and real world at the time.
Eh. I'll pass. I understand the central message here, and that does make you think, but deconstruction-- especially of the Garth Ennis variety-- usually comes off as dark-for -the-sake-of-it, dismissive, and needlessly mean-spirited. Veitch had no love for DC, and it shows, Garth Ennis dislikes superheroes in general, and it shows. Frankly, I feel like all that salt makes it a really un-fun read. This is my opinion, at least, and you should take it for what it is, and with a spoonful of salt.
Mhmm, and I don't want no high blood pressure 😔
MrNickPresley I know, I hate reading “deconstruction” comics because they all just use it as an excuse to just shit on superhero’s and to be edgy just for the sake of being edgy. There are some good ones (Watchmen, tv show version of The Boys) but then you have ones like these which are just over filled with the authors own personal loathing of superheroes.
It was the same way with the rest of his original books. "WE get it, you hate superheroes."
@@tonypulizzi5656 I like deconstructions, but it's gotten to the point where I'm sick of them.
I really don't like the idea posed here, that the readers are responsible for the torment the characters go though, it makes me feel uncomfortable...
@@tonypulizzi5656 Sad that HBO messed up Watchmen while Amazon did an arguably elevated version of The Boys. Invincible is also doing a pretty good gritty take on Superheroes.
This is a part of the comic book world that I never even knew existed. Thank you for this informative video!
I have a problem with the twist(?) of this book, that the characters only have sidekicks for their own marketability. I mean, I understand it's referencing how sidekicks were invented for marketability, but it doesn't make sense with the rest of the comic. If Judge Jury is concerned with appearances, then maybe he should take off the klansman hood and get off the flaming cross? Seriously, I think I'd enjoy it more if they played up the heroes duplicity. They explore it a little with Midnight Mink but I wish it had more of a "behind the scenes" thing instead of making every hero so blatantly evil to any civilian. Maybe even change the end so the sidekicks weren't killed because they were turning 18 but because they were publicly spiraling and hurting the heroes brand.
"The boys before the boys."
I'm in. Good looking out.
Boys support boys
I cant get the image of a 60's Burt Ward, Robin thrown into this world...
You as Milo Manara's Spider-Woman was hilarious
Hands down best comic content creator on TH-cam. Thanks for all your videos Chris.
Is *CHIPPY* a reference to a drug habit? With Heroin addicts (here in NYC) we refer to a smaller habit as a "Chip on your Shoulder," or *"CHIPPY."* It's meant to distinguish your habit still being in its early stages, manageable and possibly conquerable. Chippies lead to major habits. They can serve to indicate a person is borderline delusional when they claim it's not so bad - no level of withdrawal/addiction should be considered "not so bad." Alright, kids, *Stay in Drugs, Don't Do School!*
Thanks for all the awesome support for Rick Veitch. I love his ABRAXAS AND THE EARTHMAN
I bought these off the shelves when they came out. Couldn't have been more than 14. I had these covers hanging on my wall for years. Good to see someone talk about them. Definitely inspired the Boys and a ton of other stuff.
I don't often comment on the billions of hours of TH-cam I watch but this channel is amazing. As a lifelong comic fan of almost 40 years it's fantastic to discover some new hidden gem. Thank you!
I just read this comic and found to be surprisingly tame given the reputation it has.
Same. Although, I'm sure it was infamous during its time.
@@YouKnowMeDuh can you recommend some "not so tame" titles?
jove1155 Johnny the homicidal manic
@Coitus Handguns It's just very messed up psychologically.
@@Jadedgems bruh I love Johnny the homicidal maniac
"Live fast, love hard, die with Your mask on."
"If you want Robin to die, press 1 followed by the #"
*2*
"You have pressed 1 twice!"
Yes! Such an underrated mini series. A shame Veitch's Heroica books didn't take off as planned.
Kid Ragnarok He has continued it however with his Maximortal series and his ongoing Boy Maximortal comic.
@@cha5 I've read the Maximortal trade, but yet to have checked out Boy Maximortal. Of which I'll get around to doing soon enough.
I would love to see brat pack adapted into a show just like the boys was
That would not work. Brat Pack needs its own context to function, and it's a specific piece of media. In this case, both the context and the media are 80s to 90s comic books.
It's too much of its own thing, it will not work as anything but its own thing.
_(Maybe people are just familiar enough with these old comic book tropes that the context may not be needed, but still would need a lot of adapting to really work in the modern era. It's not The boys, that's what I'm saying.)_
Me and the boys reading the boys
Suclox • 12 years ago 😂
@@devin121 almost got me too
You should discuss The One by Rick Veitch. It came out before the Watchmen but I think it's just as important.
Me: Sees thumbnail
Also me: "I scraped myself shaving today... Is this some kind of sign???
I love how enthusiastic you are about your fans' art!
Watchmen: Political
The Boys: Cynical
Brat Pack: DEPRESSING AS F@CK
Watchmen: Original, creative and intense.
The Boys: An emo teenager who scream obscenity at his old grandma thinking to be a badass.
Bratpack: The same kid above who act in the same way when he is 42 years old.
I really love this video. I always come back now and again.
Double thumbs up for this. I never thought I would see you upload a review of Brat Pack. I remember how impactful it felt when I read these as a teenager in 1990 (not to mention naughty since these were in the "adult" section with paper covers over them). These issues were some of the few I kept when I sold my whole collection in my 20s and got out of the comic book world.
I know you don't normally review anime/manga, but have you ever looked into Tiger and Bunny? It's a frachise that is a deconstruction of American superhero comics that is NOT a constant cynical edgefest. There's a lot of obvious inspirations from setting (NEXTs are basically mutants) to characters (One hero has Batman's backstory, theres a 90s style antihero that's like the Punisher, and a villain thats basically Magneto and Joker.) There's also unspoken satire on things like impractical costumes and how heroes are marketed for profit. I think you'd be able to pick up on more on these things than I since you know way more about American comics than I do.
No-one:
The trending tags in Hentai-Comic sites: 5:40
All Five if those are actual tags and it both concerns and intrigues me
@@thatgirlinamask8699 They are..... some pepole get turned on by both: Forced drugg use.....
@Jesus Ramirez Romo Metamorphosis. That is all.
@@thatgirlinamask8699 Metamorphosis is genuinely a good story.
Just remove the porn and you get a fucking modern masterpiece.
All those are lies
Ordered this the day the video came out. It came today. Read it, loved it! Thanks for opening my eyes to an little known classic!!
Marshall Law did similar deconstruction of the superhero too.
Marshall Law was fantastic.
I'd love to see an episode entirely dedicated to Marshall Law!
@@RogerioPereiradaSilva77 Marshall law is a great work. Lots of symbolism and commentary to digest. Wish more love was given to it.
But it was done by Mills/O'Neil which doesn't seem to fit with the Amerocentric view presented here. I find it more likely that Ennis (a Northern Irishman who started working work with 'Crisis' which was owned by the publisher of 2000ad) would be influenced by Pat Mills' (founding editor of 2000ad and writer) views on superheroes than by some obscure American writer/artist. Marshal Law was published 3 years earlier,than Brat Pack, in 1987.
Your channel is one of the best.
Thanks for this video! I would NEVER be able to know this gem if it wasn't for you!
(I love comics, but I'm from Brazil, so there is many things that were never published here, specially stuff from the 80s and 90s not by Marvel or DC)
I'm really impressed by it (and by Maximortal, I read that too!), and I'm amazed as this is not more known in general.
Great read!
Thanks for this Chris. Can't believe I've never even heard of this title.
Damn. I've never even seen or heard anything about this comic until now, and I still got depressed just learning about it.
I'm glad this video was recommended to me. I'm not big into comics- not because I dislike them, more because I feel overwhelmed and dont really know where to start with them- but this sounds like it would be right up my alley. Dark, cynical, pessimistic, disturbing, graphic? Definitely going to check it out now.
Another great video.
Can you do a video on The Maxx.
Also do a video on Hard Boiled
I want to see a video on the maxx too
Dude I would love a video in The Maxx
I think this is the strength of your channel you can explore comics and creators that are not trending and I love learning about the history and key players in the comic industry itself.
Finally, a grown up and mature TH-cam channel!
If like like this, check out Maximortal by the same writer/artist. really twisted (but ultimately more realistic) take on Superman's origin story.
this video really disturbs me to the core more so than your other darker comic. To be honest my mind is in a really bad psyche now. The story takes that disturb factor and kicked it up to 11. Thanks a lot Chris
I hope you'll be ok
Im doing a lot better now, thanks for asking, chris i think you might need to put a warning disclaimer if you do these specific types of dark comics.
@@mamba_kekwrespectfully the title says darkest comics ever
It’s nice to know that the first ending with the first ever supe didn’t make him a piece of shit too. Usually these comics do that. (It’s why super crooks surprised me so much too) but knowing the first supe hates what his old friends became and rightfully punishes them, it’s kinda nice. Almost like karma sent him back to get the pieces of scum
Dude, kudos to you for actually smoking for the bit at the intro
I remember hearing somewhere about comic book store owners were calling in 'To Kill' jason. Cause they thought that Robin being killed would drive up there sales
You wanna know who else is mature and loves smoking?...
I think he'd rather know the ultimate secret of magic.
Your mom?
A factory 🏭
My uncle Stan?
Joseph Stalin?
I watched 6 minutes of this video, stopped, read all of Bratpack. Loved it. Came back to finish the video. Thank you for introducing me this.
I'll always remember Rick veitch because he had the seemingly impossible task of picking up swamp thing right after Alan Moore's legendary run! I mean really could you imagine that? Alan Moore took swamp thing and wrote one of the most praised and loved comic book runs of all time and now you have to pick up where he left off! Oh and by the way Alan Moore's last couple of issues had him traveling throughout space having adventures with aliens and meeting new gods so good luck! Even though it seemed like an impossible task he actually did a pretty good job.
Oh, so thats why there is two versions of ending, it was before Maximortal and it was its own thing originally. I tought that Brat Pack was side companion to Maximortal story, that is in same vein an exploration of superhero myth and its connections to faults of the real world that created it, but applied to ersatz-Superman as the main progenitor of whole genre. Makes sense that Veitch redid some things in reprint to establish more clear connection between two.
Is anyone else sick of Superhero deconstructions? Also, I don't like the notion of enjoying the comic book character's suffering, because it makes me feel dirty for reading them... I understand what Veitch was going for, but it doesn't help.
Look up "The Avengers: How Superhero Comics Preserve Ruling Class
Ideology" by Wendy Huang. This one demonstrates how superheroes are glorified cops.
@@CosmoShidan NERD
@@christinawalker101 Well we all are after all.
I sincerely believe that there are a large majority of the population that would be flat out shocked at just how many Movies are adapted straight from a Comic Book or Graphic Novel.
0:01 oof ouch ow lungs hurt owie
I love the covers of those single issues of Alan Moore's Swamp Thing. I had been looking at getting a collected edition of them a while ago. Something I never got round to buying. Of course I'm aware that they are some of Moore's strongest works. Seeing the covers of those single volumes, makes me tempted to buy them individually. Obviously this is not cost effective. Are the covers in the collected versions? If so, are they exhibited well on a full page spread with glossy paper?
A very underrated work that blew my mind when i bought it some years ago in a sale with other works of Veitch that apparently makes a trilogy about superheroes. It wold be nice to review the other works called The Maximortal and The one, this last one is more like evangelion meets watchmen. Anyway, great video!! Greetings from argentina!!
I love how this entire comic is just one giant "fuck you" to Batman other superheros who take on child side-kicks.
This needs to be a live action series.
We need a supercut of all the intros Chris does
Brat pack, Watchmen, The Incredibles, The Boys, and Brightburn: All very cynical takes on the Superhero genre.
The incredibles?
Kats Basically if the government screwed over superheroes.
@@joshuaolsoncook oh
And the watchmen is the first that started the cynical realism superhero genre and ironically the best one.
I live inside your house Didn’t My Hero Academia and One Punch Man also focus on the cynical aspects of superheroes?
Well, I'll argue that 'Brat Pack' was a fine book, but many of the tropes that Mr. Veitch tackled and taboos he apparently broke on it were already tackled and broken by Pat Mills and Kevin O'Neill back in '87. Marshal Law, anyone?
Quality-wise, it was a great, great book. Originality-wise? Not so much.
About it inspiring 'The Boys'... not so sure either. I think that one came more from Ennis scratching the itch of doing a spiritual sequel to 'Punisher kills the Marvel Universe' set in the DC universe and that itch evolved into 'The Boys' eventually.
Well for me Marshall Law though brilliant never had quite the punch of several moments in The Maximortal and Boy Maximortal, That of Veitch's take on Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster shafting by DC, and Veitch's recreation of Bill Gaine's televised defense of EC Comics in Maximortal and also that of a young Gilbert Shelton and S.Clay Wilson encountering Wonder Warthog in a psychedelic vision among other things, all of which were inspired IMHO.
Another great episode Chris
Rare Bit Fiends was so good too. And Cant Get No, that thing quite engrossing.
But it doesn't. Sure it tells a twisted and horrific story about side kicks, but this story through it's very excesses and lack of subtlety, doesn't really "deconstruct" anything. It's a rant, which by being over the top, only serves ultimately to avoid effective criticism or introspection about the mentor/protege relationship when that relationship ultimately involves being subjected to and perpetrating violence.
I brought this entire series out of the quarter bin of my comic book shop a few years ago; they're still in my "to read" pile.
Well read it!
I absolutely hated this book. It’s such a bullshit idea on a level of “Seduction of the Innocent”. It’s just shitty 90s grimdark for the sake of it and the writer clearly hated the industry he worked in. Just like Garth Ennis who also wrote terrible crap and hated the subject matter he wrote. It’s just pissing all over the genuine work by creators who craft powerful tales of heroism and perseverance over adversity.
I remember Heartburst, which was maybe started my search for comics that meant more than a superhero fight. I've followed his work through the years. I think his "Can't Get No" is a singular piece of art. I think Veitch really needs so much more attention.
In comics, the term "deconstruction" roughly translates to sodomy, apparently.
@The Count am I wrong though?
Incredibly happy that I came across a video of yours a few days ago and have the privilege of seeing more content from you.
You do an excellent job of breaking things down and give pertinent information without overloading the viewer or dragging the video out past the length it needs to be.
Keep it up! Looking forward to seeing your channel inevitably take off in regards to your subscribers since it is now only a matter of time.
You just helped me find the college I'm going to. Thank you.
Arno's X-Statix artwork is tip top.
Rick Veitch is a cool author and artist too. Brat Pack was a real eye-opener back in the 90's.