I bought both original and ziplock and deluxe boxed "designer's edition" way back in 79. The game caused more arguments than actual gaming enjoyment. It nearly destroyed friendships, but when games went smoothly, it was a lot of fun, and to that extent i miss playing it.
Not only has the game been around for over 40 years, the CURRENT EDITION came out in 1991. Few games last that long, and fewer last that long without getting redesigned. (The philosophy of the current Captain's Edition was given thus: "We won't change anything, but we'll explain everything.")
I played SFB back in the 90's with friends. The thing I remember most was S_ (the guy who owned the set) having a first-generation programmable calculator, and building the 32-segment impulse chart in it. Part of the reason the game is so complicated boils down to one sentence: "this weeks desperation maneuver will be next week's standard operation procedure, with a rule describing how to employ it"
I might be in the minority but I like the chunky undetailed look of the SSDs. It's clean and direct, presenting info that you need in an easy to see format...which is what it's supposed to be: a status display. Also, it let's me use my imagination!
I've got to disagree in the sense that the FC ship cards are much easier for me to use, due to the colour-coding of the different SSD boxes. Much less hunting around the black-and-white sheet of paper for the little box that looks identical to all the others. So the SFB SSDs not only look old and chunky, but they're (IMO of course) less functional than a more modern presentation.
@@djthorsilver I have Adhd and find it to be the exact opposite. I find all the colors very distracting. (And frankly not very esthetic either, IMO.) When playing SFB, I pretty much memorize all the important stuff on the SSD ( it just takes a moment) before filling out EA on turn one. To each their own... Kinda neat how different people's brains work.
I ran across this game in the mid 80's as a teen. I bought every SSD, Every Captain's Log, every thing to do with this game.....and still have them ALL in my collection
Long time SFB fan here. My "lifestyle" game, instead of Squad Leader/ASL. I got in during Commander's Edition, Volume I, II, and III. My most favorite game ever.
I did SFB back in the day (fav- Lyran and IFC) and it was not crazy complex enough so I and my friends at one point did Federations and Empires and any fight that we thought was close we resolved with a SFB game. So glad to see them still around.
Best STB video on TH-cam! Really nicely done Sir! I used to play this but haven't played in more then 2 decades and forgot most everything and looking forward to playing again someday.
Got the Task Force Games miniature set of five ships when I was twelve in 1983. Then volumes one, twos and three. X-ships. PF carriers and so forth. Last time I played I was probably 18 or 19. I will say. The old artwork in the TFG era was top notch. Better than what is used these days.
Thanks for watching! I"m glad you enjoyed the videos :) I've got three more to edit that will be uploaded over the next few weeks, so I hope you'll enjoy those too! How are you liking SFB so far?
@@djthorsilver I like this game a lot ! In fact, I was playing Talon, from GMT games, but I found that it was too simple, too much "streamlined". AAnd I was looking for a space battle game but more simulationist. I don't understand the hype about "streamlining" games. It often removes all the details that makes the thrill. SFB reminds me of old fiddly games like Car Wars, Gunslinger or Wooden ships & iron men. The games I love.
Me and my friends would play this all through high school and college in the 80s. I really miss the game. My SFB stuff got destroyed in a flood so after about 1988 I didn't play anymore.
Indeed, it is still in print but you should stock up quickly. The owner of ADB and game designer is aging and in poor health. It is highly questionable how much longer this game will be in print for obvious reasons. SFB is really the only revenue source they have and unless some other company is sold the rights to the game, SFB days may he numbered.
OMG, I looked for SFB on a whim, as I played this with my friends from Spearpoint Wargames Club in den early 90s...I loved SFB and became really really good at it. Haven't played since then, but ... hey .. might get back into it. And it has not really changed since then, always a plus.
I love this game. I've played it since the Commanders Edition came out in the early 1980s. Haven't played since the the mid 1990s. Tried getting back into the game about 15 years ago, but couldn't find anyone who was willing to play.
The SFB community is now mostly online in SFBOL (Starfleet Battles On Line) which is just a tonne of fun. Sadly for ADB that means a lot of players don't need the box sets and modules as much. Which is sad as they are really awesome and worth owing IMHO.
You are right, the lack of videos explaining how SFB work is very daunting. It would be wonderful to see people playing and apply the different rules (movement, weapons, etc) like some kind of lessons
Hey , its great to see some promoting and playing SFB. I started playing back at the beginning - 1979. Ive played it ALOT over the years since and collected just about every thing ever produced . Sadly I have not played it in the last 10 years or so. Another interesting game is Babylon 5 Wars , some what similar to SFB , though the game mechanics are quite different . The big plus is its available online ( rulebooks and SSDs ) for free at - Babylon 5 Wars vault .
Got into this game in the early 80's. Bought the Captains Edition in 1990 and they have not really changed the game since then. Still have the old b/w counters as well, not the new stuff seen inn this video. Got all the add ons as well, new ships, races, scenarios. Captain's Log as well!!
Going to introduce SFB to some friends soon and this video is a godsend. Great work. I used to play all the time but haven't managed to find real humans to play with in an age. Placated myself by reinstalling Starfleet Commander II.
@@djthorsilver It was successful. One enjoyed it a lot (and even pulled off an HET surprise attack on me). Another is on the fence and one found it too complicated. Not bad, all things considered.
Just sold my signed first edition of the game a couple months ago on eBay. Loved the game(I played a lot prior to the Captain's edition), but just didn't have the time and other people to play with
Thank you for this video! I played boatloads of this game back in the 80s. Going to get back into it, I think. I found a fairly large set for just $35.
Liked the video, been playing for 40 years and continue to do so every first Saturday night of each month. We use painted miniatures on a large map board, been thinking about making a game play video of one of our game nights. Don't know if anyone would want to see it or not. Always power a HET and Trac Beams, it will save your life; and keep a weasel charged.
It certainly isn't my bag of bones. I always felt like I needed a degree to play it. I streamlined it so there was no energy allotment. There were a few kinks so I just made my own rules. SFB is for those who like filling out paperwork more than rolling dice.
I played this for many years in my 20s. This and Car Wars were my favorites, though frankly I was much better at Car Wars. My tactical acumen isn't great, but Car Wars' plethora of design options played into my one strength: the Department of Dirty Tricks. In any case, it was hard to get the groups I played in to do large scenarios in SFB, so I never got to do a starbase assault or an unbalanced but really cool scenario like The Return of the Darwin (Scenario SH166, a scenario inspired by the ST:TNG episode "Yesterday's Enterprise" but based in the lore of SFB). When Starfleet Command for the PC came out, I had to satisfy myself with that, as by that time my last SFB gamer group was devolving into playing Magic: The Gathering on the increasingly rare occasions we got together at all. But it was fun while it lasted.
If you made a Star Fleet Battles server on discord I would join. Great video. I started back in 82' playing in HS and brought it to friends my group of friends. We played all through college.
Regarding updated counter sheets … is there somewhere on their site to check what products have updates and what updates are coming? I find it difficult to find things on their website (maybe it’s my old eyes) 😃
I used to play the RPG (pen and paper) they had good rules for everything but starships so we'd break out Star Fleet battles to work out who blew up who.
@@jej3451 just mark it on the SSD sheet for that ship. Put it next to the movement. I don't know about you but we made photo copies, put them in a plastic sleeve and used china markers to write on them. You can write all kinds of notes on the back unless you have 2 ships in the same plastic sheet back to back.
@@CaptCook999 Do you write down the hex number each time you perform a turn, or just the turn and impulse? (I used two different meanings of "turn" there, but don't know how to avoid it. For the first one, I meant rotating the ship; for the second, I meant one execution of the "sequence of play".)
@@jej3451 the ship number should be good enough to identify it but in a large battle with multiple ships in a hex you might want to write down the hex number as well as the turn number.
I'm a huge fan of SFB; I played a ton of it in the 1980s. But do you really think that a good introduction to SFB should spend an hour showing us thick manuals and never even start to explain how the game is played? Perhaps my memory has gone bad over the years, but, though obviously the full rule set is quite complex, I seem to recall that that the first time I played with some friends (using the classic Federation Cadet Cruiser), they got me going pretty darn quickly, and within half an hour I was managing to zoom my ship around, shoot things, and have quite a bit of fun. (It was certainly easier to get started with than _Squad Leader,_ as I recall.) I might never have gotten into it if those folks had spent their time telling me how complex the game is rather than just showing me how to play.
I've said this a bunch of times, but just to be clear again: ADB has a 'web policy' which asks for all tutorial videos to be run by them first, which I have no interest in doing. I did try to film a short cruiser battle anyway, and honestly my camera setup isn't good enough to really do justice to it. I still hope to do a video like that one day, but with my current equipment, it's just not workable. As to your other points, honestly SFB is a game with big rulebooks, that's just the reality; the rulebook in the 'Basic Set' is well over 200 pages long. But for lots of people it's not a deal-breaker. Heck, BattleTech has really complex rules too, but people still love it. In other comments you can see some folks bought the game after watching this, so yes I'm happy with how I've presented SFB. I love this game and I think that comes across in this video.
@@djthorsilver I understand that the rulebooks are large (I have several of them!), but that's not at all what I was complaining about here. My complaint is that I don't think that anybody who's not already played SFB is going to have the slightest clue from this as to what the game even looks like. That said, I understand your nervousness about ADB's web policy, but it seems reasonably clearly not to apply to a demonstration of a game using just ADB's official materials. Near the bottom of their policy document, in the "Procedure for Submissions" (to become an "authorized site), they explain that you're soliciting authorization to post a "new ship, story, race, scenario, rule, tactics article, or other thing related to any game of the Star Fleet Universe." Simply showing the use of existing materials from ADB doesn't seem to fall under this. However, that said too, I understand your point about difficulties with camera setup for filming a battle. Filming decent quality for something like this is a lot harder and a lot more work than it looks!
You are not joking about the cost of the PDFs. I was planning my next physical purchase of Advanced Missions & Captian's Log #1 w/ $15 Shipping = $57.45 (worth it IMHO). Then slipped over to Drivethru RPG Rulebook, Color SSD, and CL #1 total $42.90. That's a total of $100.35. I get PDFs so I can read better. I have a hard time with the current size in the books, but we like the physical copy for gaming purposes, plus you have to have the counters and maps. I have stated my dislike of the cost of the PDFs in my review on ADB's site in the hopes that if enough people politely suggest a lower price thay might change it.
Yes, the PDF prices are a bit hard to swallow! I really wish they would sign up to Bits & Mortar, so that physical copies automatically gave access to a PDF. The PDF hosting would cost them nothing and it would be a huge help for us customers, and would enhance the value of the physical products even more. The other problem though is that quite a few products are still not available in digital form because ADB wants to ensure they're fully updated first. While that's a good policy to have, it seems they don't dedicate much work time to developing PDF products so the updates take a long time to come through. In any case, at least most of the key SSD books for SFB are available digitally now, which is a step forward. If they can tweak the pricing and get some more releases done more quickly then they'd be on the right track.
@@djthorsilver I do like the color SSD and the option to even get the B&W which I thought honestly would come with the rules. I haven't heard of Bits & Mortar maybe an email suggesting it from several of the fans would help. I'll go ahead and shoot one over myself. If they don't like the idea, maybe they can explain why? worth a shot.
I really want to play this game, but it is near impossible to find opponents. I played a few games online, but it kind of fell off. I know they have a subscription based online option, but I thought it was a bit pricey for a game here and there and it looks like it was designed with DOS. (OK, not that bad). Amarillo is a bit touchy about this, but it should be on Tabletop Simulator to bring in new players. As it is now, it's overwhelming to a new player. Your video was a great ice breaker. Player skill is a thing. The guy I was playing with ran circles around me. I tried Federation Commander which I mostly liked. I loved the colored SSD's and charts. For a new player, it was easy to find everything, like the Phasers for example.
ADB still does not allow people to buy the better counter sheets separately as spare parts. They have a huge inventory of the old crappy counters so force you to buy the whole product if all you want to do is upgrade counters ......very irksome. They are cheap and have such a low budget I doubt they can afford it.
LOL -- yeah that sounds like ADB. I guess an alternative could be to buy counter sheets for Federation Commander and use those instead? Ultimately I think ADB is very shackled to a particular way of doing things -- like making SSDs using some software from like 30 years ago, never having sales of any kind on any platform, never improving their layout or evolving SSD designs despite years of discussion on that topic on their BBS, plus my usual complaints about their PDF policies, etc. Lots of comments on this video express surprise that the game still exists, which is surely not a good sign for ADB's visibility and new player acquisition. Honestly, if it weren't for me being such a huge Trek person and no other game really doing what SFB does, I'd have moved on ages ago. But, despite my disagreements with ADB itself, I do still love the game. Someday, though, the game and the company's policies will have to catch up with the times or they'll face an ever-dwindling fanbase.
that's why they had Manuals so you could read and work out how to play the game in 50 years time I wonder how many will be able to read, the advance of technology and the downfall of civilisation Oh and PS I think this game is brilliant
I can understand this level of complexity in something like Great Battles of Alexander or OCS. But in a sci-fi game with make believe physics? What’s the point of making it so complicated when the underlying subject matter just isn’t?
I have to say I disagree with your premise here. We actually don't know all that much about the details of warfare in the time of Alexander, for example, and the supply system in OCS -- while fantastic -- is ultimately a huge abstraction of what occurred in reality. Meanwhile, conflicts in Star Trek are very far from uncomplicated; the shows and films often depict creative uses of ship resources in battle, and these fictional ships have been described and mapped and their capabilities quantified in extensive detail, with input from science consultants. The bottom line is that, in both GBoA and OCS, the systems in place are designed to reflect what the designers find most interesting/fun about the period in question, and model that on the table in a way that's still fun. SFB does the exact same thing, except for a different audience. SFB is complicated so that players can play scenarios in crazy situations like in the show(s) (fighting near black holes, in nebulae, etc.), while making creative use of their enormous, and very complex and capable spacecraft. As a fan of OCS myself I don't see a difference, really; as the statistician George Box once said, 'All models are wrong, but some are useful'. OCS's supply model is wrong, technically, but it plays well on the table and facilitates tactics and strategies that are impossible in other operational-level wargames. SFB's model of shipboard operations is wrong, technically, but the huge range of options allows strategies and tactics that are impossible in other tactical space combat games. Both models are 'wrong', but both are useful (which in this case means 'fun for people that like this sort of thing').
My friend's and I played all through high school in early 80's. Absolutely loved it! I really had hoped they would have made a true computer version.
I bought both original and ziplock and deluxe boxed "designer's edition" way back in 79. The game caused more arguments than actual gaming enjoyment. It nearly destroyed friendships, but when games went smoothly, it was a lot of fun, and to that extent i miss playing it.
Not only has the game been around for over 40 years, the CURRENT EDITION came out in 1991. Few games last that long, and fewer last that long without getting redesigned. (The philosophy of the current Captain's Edition was given thus: "We won't change anything, but we'll explain everything.")
I played SFB back in the 90's with friends. The thing I remember most was S_ (the guy who owned the set) having a first-generation programmable calculator, and building the 32-segment impulse chart in it. Part of the reason the game is so complicated boils down to one sentence: "this weeks desperation maneuver will be next week's standard operation procedure, with a rule describing how to employ it"
I remember playing an old edition of Star Fleet Battles in high school, back in the 90's. It's cool to see that the game still has a fan base.
I might be in the minority but I like the chunky undetailed look of the SSDs. It's clean and direct, presenting info that you need in an easy to see format...which is what it's supposed to be: a status display. Also, it let's me use my imagination!
I've got to disagree in the sense that the FC ship cards are much easier for me to use, due to the colour-coding of the different SSD boxes. Much less hunting around the black-and-white sheet of paper for the little box that looks identical to all the others. So the SFB SSDs not only look old and chunky, but they're (IMO of course) less functional than a more modern presentation.
@@djthorsilver I have Adhd and find it to be the exact opposite. I find all the colors very distracting. (And frankly not very esthetic either, IMO.) When playing SFB, I pretty much memorize all the important stuff on the SSD ( it just takes a moment) before filling out EA on turn one. To each their own... Kinda neat how different people's brains work.
@@djthorsilver I will allow though, that the bright colors on the cards gives a very nostalgic 1960s Star Trek vibe! 😉
It's a happy day when I find new SFB videos on TH-cam. Thank you!!
I ran across this game in the mid 80's as a teen. I bought every SSD, Every Captain's Log, every thing to do with this game.....and still have them ALL in my collection
Long time SFB fan here. My "lifestyle" game, instead of Squad Leader/ASL. I got in during Commander's Edition, Volume I, II, and III. My most favorite game ever.
I did SFB back in the day (fav- Lyran and IFC) and it was not crazy complex enough so I and my friends at one point did Federations and Empires and any fight that we thought was close we resolved with a SFB game. So glad to see them still around.
Best STB video on TH-cam! Really nicely done Sir! I used to play this but haven't played in more then 2 decades and forgot most everything and looking forward to playing again someday.
Got the Task Force Games miniature set of five ships when I was twelve in 1983. Then volumes one, twos and three. X-ships. PF carriers and so forth.
Last time I played I was probably 18 or 19.
I will say. The old artwork in the TFG era was top notch. Better than what is used these days.
You are the SFB guy on TH-cam. Thank you for your videos. You made me buy the game !
Thanks for watching! I"m glad you enjoyed the videos :) I've got three more to edit that will be uploaded over the next few weeks, so I hope you'll enjoy those too!
How are you liking SFB so far?
@@djthorsilver I like this game a lot ! In fact, I was playing Talon, from GMT games, but I found that it was too simple, too much "streamlined". AAnd I was looking for a space battle game but more simulationist. I don't understand the hype about "streamlining" games. It often removes all the details that makes the thrill. SFB reminds me of old fiddly games like Car Wars, Gunslinger or Wooden ships & iron men. The games I love.
Me and my friends would play this all through high school and college in the 80s. I really miss the game. My SFB stuff got destroyed in a flood so after about 1988 I didn't play anymore.
It's all still in print and still reasonably priced. Grab that ship and fly!
Indeed, it is still in print but you should stock up quickly. The owner of ADB and game designer is aging and in poor health. It is highly questionable how much longer this game will be in print for obvious reasons. SFB is really the only revenue source they have and unless some other company is sold the rights to the game, SFB days may he numbered.
had only the video games and loved them. nice to see how it startet.
OMG, I looked for SFB on a whim, as I played this with my friends from Spearpoint Wargames Club in den early 90s...I loved SFB and became really really good at it. Haven't played since then, but ... hey .. might get back into it. And it has not really changed since then, always a plus.
I love this game. I've played it since the Commanders Edition came out in the early 1980s. Haven't played since the the mid 1990s. Tried getting back into the game about 15 years ago, but couldn't find anyone who was willing to play.
Have you joined Starlist? I am in Michigan Detroit area and still plenty of players here ;-)
The SFB community is now mostly online in SFBOL (Starfleet Battles On Line) which is just a tonne of fun. Sadly for ADB that means a lot of players don't need the box sets and modules as much. Which is sad as they are really awesome and worth owing IMHO.
You are right, the lack of videos explaining how SFB work is very daunting. It would be wonderful to see people playing and apply the different rules (movement, weapons, etc) like some kind of lessons
If only we had a computer game to do this sort of game online.
@@tar170 :D
Hey , its great to see some promoting and playing SFB. I started playing back at the beginning - 1979. Ive played it ALOT over the years since and collected just about every thing ever produced . Sadly I have not played it in the last 10 years or so. Another interesting game is Babylon 5 Wars , some what similar to SFB , though the game mechanics are quite different . The big plus is its available online ( rulebooks and SSDs ) for free at - Babylon 5 Wars vault .
Thanks for this detailed and comprehensive video. I am learning the game now with the online Cadet Training Manual, and my Basic Set is in the mail.
Dude, I haven’t found anyone to play this with in years! I miss this game. I still have all my gear.
Got into this game in the early 80's. Bought the Captains Edition in 1990 and they have not really changed the game since then. Still have the old b/w counters as well, not the new stuff seen inn this video. Got all the add ons as well, new ships, races, scenarios. Captain's Log as well!!
Going to introduce SFB to some friends soon and this video is a godsend. Great work. I used to play all the time but haven't managed to find real humans to play with in an age. Placated myself by reinstalling Starfleet Commander II.
Fantastic! I'm glad my video might be of use :) Good luck with getting your friends on board, hopefully they'll give it a go!
@@djthorsilver It was successful. One enjoyed it a lot (and even pulled off an HET surprise attack on me). Another is on the fence and one found it too complicated. Not bad, all things considered.
Just sold my signed first edition of the game a couple months ago on eBay.
Loved the game(I played a lot prior to the Captain's edition), but just didn't have the time and other people to play with
Thank you for this video! I played boatloads of this game back in the 80s. Going to get back into it, I think. I found a fairly large set for just $35.
I came just to say hiw appropriate it is that the INTRODUCTION VIDEO for SFB is over an hour long.
Keep up the good work, sir. Like and sub.
Blast from the past. I have a few of those books in my closet with my old AD&D and Gamma World books.
Liked the video, been playing for 40 years and continue to do so every first Saturday night of each month. We use painted miniatures on a large map board, been thinking about making a game play video of one of our game nights. Don't know if anyone would want to see it or not. Always power a HET and Trac Beams, it will save your life; and keep a weasel charged.
Yes please! :)
I'd definitely watch a video of one of your game nights! Also I fully agree with your three hot tips there at the end :)
Excellent review!
It certainly isn't my bag of bones. I always felt like I needed a degree to play it.
I streamlined it so there was no energy allotment. There were a few kinks so I just made my own rules.
SFB is for those who like filling out paperwork more than rolling dice.
I played this for many years in my 20s. This and Car Wars were my favorites, though frankly I was much better at Car Wars. My tactical acumen isn't great, but Car Wars' plethora of design options played into my one strength: the Department of Dirty Tricks. In any case, it was hard to get the groups I played in to do large scenarios in SFB, so I never got to do a starbase assault or an unbalanced but really cool scenario like The Return of the Darwin (Scenario SH166, a scenario inspired by the ST:TNG episode "Yesterday's Enterprise" but based in the lore of SFB). When Starfleet Command for the PC came out, I had to satisfy myself with that, as by that time my last SFB gamer group was devolving into playing Magic: The Gathering on the increasingly rare occasions we got together at all. But it was fun while it lasted.
My favorite was always the Fed carrier. I love that ship.
I still have my 80's set. I have a video on it but I can't vouch for the quality
Thanks for your work on this! I have passed on to various social media groups.
You the Mike Baker that went to OK State?
@@Pheckphul1 No. There are hundreds of Mike Baker's out there lol
@@mikebaker6804 The MB I knew played SFB as well, so I thought I'd try. 🤷🏼
Goodness, I haven't played SFB in.. at least 2 decades. Federation Commander in almost as long.
I had this back in the 80's. Never got a chance to play against anyone except my older brother. Wish I could find someones who would play.
Grab the cadet rules and recruit some players. It works best if you invest in a few miniatures and the larger hex maps.
If you made a Star Fleet Battles server on discord I would join. Great video. I started back in 82' playing in HS and brought it to friends my group of friends. We played all through college.
Imagine ship pieces for SFB in the style and detail of X-Wing!
Regarding updated counter sheets … is there somewhere on their site to check what products have updates and what updates are coming? I find it difficult to find things on their website (maybe it’s my old eyes) 😃
You can by the countersheets separately
I used to play the RPG (pen and paper) they had good rules for everything but starships so we'd break out Star Fleet battles to work out who blew up who.
I noticed there are no "point of turn" counters in the Basic Set, like there are in the Cadet Training Manual. Do experienced players not use them?
It's easy enough to mark on your sheets when you turned. Unless you have a huge battle it won't be a problem to remember when you get to turn next.
@@CaptCook999 Which sheet do you mean? The "Master player record-keeping form"?
@@jej3451 just mark it on the SSD sheet for that ship. Put it next to the movement.
I don't know about you but we made photo copies, put them in a plastic sleeve and used china markers to write on them. You can write all kinds of notes on the back unless you have 2 ships in the same plastic sheet back to back.
@@CaptCook999 Do you write down the hex number each time you perform a turn, or just the turn and impulse? (I used two different meanings of "turn" there, but don't know how to avoid it. For the first one, I meant rotating the ship; for the second, I meant one execution of the "sequence of play".)
@@jej3451 the ship number should be good enough to identify it but in a large battle with multiple ships in a hex you might want to write down the hex number as well as the turn number.
Ouch... "Seltorains" on the back cover... 51:08
I'm finding the game maps hard to find d as I've lost mine over the years of moving around
Its good to be a nerd
Oh my god its like Advanced Squad Leader but in space!!!!
I'm a huge fan of SFB; I played a ton of it in the 1980s. But do you really think that a good introduction to SFB should spend an hour showing us thick manuals and never even start to explain how the game is played?
Perhaps my memory has gone bad over the years, but, though obviously the full rule set is quite complex, I seem to recall that that the first time I played with some friends (using the classic Federation Cadet Cruiser), they got me going pretty darn quickly, and within half an hour I was managing to zoom my ship around, shoot things, and have quite a bit of fun. (It was certainly easier to get started with than _Squad Leader,_ as I recall.)
I might never have gotten into it if those folks had spent their time telling me how complex the game is rather than just showing me how to play.
I've said this a bunch of times, but just to be clear again: ADB has a 'web policy' which asks for all tutorial videos to be run by them first, which I have no interest in doing. I did try to film a short cruiser battle anyway, and honestly my camera setup isn't good enough to really do justice to it. I still hope to do a video like that one day, but with my current equipment, it's just not workable.
As to your other points, honestly SFB is a game with big rulebooks, that's just the reality; the rulebook in the 'Basic Set' is well over 200 pages long. But for lots of people it's not a deal-breaker. Heck, BattleTech has really complex rules too, but people still love it. In other comments you can see some folks bought the game after watching this, so yes I'm happy with how I've presented SFB. I love this game and I think that comes across in this video.
@@djthorsilver I understand that the rulebooks are large (I have several of them!), but that's not at all what I was complaining about here. My complaint is that I don't think that anybody who's not already played SFB is going to have the slightest clue from this as to what the game even looks like.
That said, I understand your nervousness about ADB's web policy, but it seems reasonably clearly not to apply to a demonstration of a game using just ADB's official materials. Near the bottom of their policy document, in the "Procedure for Submissions" (to become an "authorized site), they explain that you're soliciting authorization to post a "new ship, story, race, scenario, rule, tactics article, or other thing related to any game of the Star Fleet Universe." Simply showing the use of existing materials from ADB doesn't seem to fall under this.
However, that said too, I understand your point about difficulties with camera setup for filming a battle. Filming decent quality for something like this is a lot harder and a lot more work than it looks!
I agree with you started playing in 82
You are not joking about the cost of the PDFs. I was planning my next physical purchase of Advanced Missions & Captian's Log #1 w/ $15 Shipping = $57.45 (worth it IMHO).
Then slipped over to Drivethru RPG Rulebook, Color SSD, and CL #1 total $42.90. That's a total of $100.35. I get PDFs so I can read better. I have a hard time with the current size in the books, but we like the physical copy for gaming purposes, plus you have to have the counters and maps.
I have stated my dislike of the cost of the PDFs in my review on ADB's site in the hopes that if enough people politely suggest a lower price thay might change it.
Yes, the PDF prices are a bit hard to swallow! I really wish they would sign up to Bits & Mortar, so that physical copies automatically gave access to a PDF. The PDF hosting would cost them nothing and it would be a huge help for us customers, and would enhance the value of the physical products even more.
The other problem though is that quite a few products are still not available in digital form because ADB wants to ensure they're fully updated first. While that's a good policy to have, it seems they don't dedicate much work time to developing PDF products so the updates take a long time to come through.
In any case, at least most of the key SSD books for SFB are available digitally now, which is a step forward. If they can tweak the pricing and get some more releases done more quickly then they'd be on the right track.
@@djthorsilver I do like the color SSD and the option to even get the B&W which I thought honestly would come with the rules. I haven't heard of Bits & Mortar maybe an email suggesting it from several of the fans would help. I'll go ahead and shoot one over myself. If they don't like the idea, maybe they can explain why? worth a shot.
I really want to play this game, but it is near impossible to find opponents. I played a few games online, but it kind of fell off. I know they have a subscription based online option, but I thought it was a bit pricey for a game here and there and it looks like it was designed with DOS. (OK, not that bad). Amarillo is a bit touchy about this, but it should be on Tabletop Simulator to bring in new players. As it is now, it's overwhelming to a new player. Your video was a great ice breaker. Player skill is a thing. The guy I was playing with ran circles around me. I tried Federation Commander which I mostly liked. I loved the colored SSD's and charts. For a new player, it was easy to find everything, like the Phasers for example.
Grab the cadet game and start simple.
there is TTS mod
Heh, I just placed my order for the SFB Core Set. I need help... and a robust copier.
ADB still does not allow people to buy the better counter sheets separately as spare parts. They have a huge inventory of the old crappy counters so force you to buy the whole product if all you want to do is upgrade counters ......very irksome. They are cheap and have such a low budget I doubt they can afford it.
LOL -- yeah that sounds like ADB. I guess an alternative could be to buy counter sheets for Federation Commander and use those instead? Ultimately I think ADB is very shackled to a particular way of doing things -- like making SSDs using some software from like 30 years ago, never having sales of any kind on any platform, never improving their layout or evolving SSD designs despite years of discussion on that topic on their BBS, plus my usual complaints about their PDF policies, etc. Lots of comments on this video express surprise that the game still exists, which is surely not a good sign for ADB's visibility and new player acquisition.
Honestly, if it weren't for me being such a huge Trek person and no other game really doing what SFB does, I'd have moved on ages ago. But, despite my disagreements with ADB itself, I do still love the game. Someday, though, the game and the company's policies will have to catch up with the times or they'll face an ever-dwindling fanbase.
that's why they had Manuals so you could read and work out how to play the game in 50 years time I wonder how many will be able to read, the advance of technology and the downfall of civilisation
Oh and PS I think this game is brilliant
SFB was king back in the day. It and Car Wars were huge in the 80s at cons. I'm just sorry it just got so bloated with fighters and seeking weapons.
I can understand this level of complexity in something like Great Battles of Alexander or OCS. But in a sci-fi game with make believe physics? What’s the point of making it so complicated when the underlying subject matter just isn’t?
I have to say I disagree with your premise here. We actually don't know all that much about the details of warfare in the time of Alexander, for example, and the supply system in OCS -- while fantastic -- is ultimately a huge abstraction of what occurred in reality. Meanwhile, conflicts in Star Trek are very far from uncomplicated; the shows and films often depict creative uses of ship resources in battle, and these fictional ships have been described and mapped and their capabilities quantified in extensive detail, with input from science consultants.
The bottom line is that, in both GBoA and OCS, the systems in place are designed to reflect what the designers find most interesting/fun about the period in question, and model that on the table in a way that's still fun. SFB does the exact same thing, except for a different audience. SFB is complicated so that players can play scenarios in crazy situations like in the show(s) (fighting near black holes, in nebulae, etc.), while making creative use of their enormous, and very complex and capable spacecraft.
As a fan of OCS myself I don't see a difference, really; as the statistician George Box once said, 'All models are wrong, but some are useful'. OCS's supply model is wrong, technically, but it plays well on the table and facilitates tactics and strategies that are impossible in other operational-level wargames. SFB's model of shipboard operations is wrong, technically, but the huge range of options allows strategies and tactics that are impossible in other tactical space combat games. Both models are 'wrong', but both are useful (which in this case means 'fun for people that like this sort of thing').
Anyone for TTS learn sesion and gaming?
Excellent review!