I feel like they should've explored Tori as the aro-ace rep since the writing is already there to build upon rather than creating a new character. But it is too late now and I hope they do isaac justice
i get this but i feel like i should say that Tori is only canonically asexual, and that's only started to get explored in the newest volume of the visual novels so..
I’m not gonna lie. The fact that there even was aroace representation was already enough of a win for me 😭 It’s honestly sad that we have to settle for any sliver of representation that we can get.
Totally get where you're coming from with this! I actually quite enjoyed his aroace subplot but I agree that Isaac's character is somewhat underdeveloped and purposeless. Reading does seem to be his main personality trait, to the effect that someone I know thought he was autistic rather than just aroace (which ofc he could be both, but it didn't sit well with me that they seemed to think him being aroace was part of his autism). I'm thinking that the reason for his 2D-ness might be because he was one of the only characters not included in the graphic novels the series was adapted from. It would make sense that the writers had less information to go by and Alice maybe didn't have as much control as she might have, had she pre-written him beforehand. Just my thoughts!
Ele foi criado pra substituir o Alec, q também não tem muita participação nas comics de Heartstopper, mas q é um dos principais no livro Rádio silêncio, e por isso Alice Oseman (autora das comics e dos livros) criou Isaac, caso surja uma oportunidade de adaptar Rádio silêncio. (Inclusive, nos livros de Alice Oseman tem muita representação aro e ace. O próprio Alec é gay e Demisexual, e Loveless é um livro protagonizado por Georgia e sua jornada se descobrindo aroace com o apoio de seus amigos, a Tori (irmã de Charlie, protagonista de Solitário) é assexual, e A própria Alice Oseman é Aroace e não binário :D P.S: imogen também é original apenas da série
@@sandramatras8345 yeah but didn’t she have like script readers and editors. Like she didn’t do it all by herself. Yeah she got the main points but the script editors and whatever probably took or added stuff that probably went against some of Alice would actually want to do. But all in all, I’m no show maker so I only have so much knowledge on how a show is produced lol. I’m sure Alice was working hard as hell on her show as she was the only script writer and I’m glad she was able to do it. It’s rlly a dream come true to have ur story/comic become a movie/show. And a good one too!
I was also let down I hated that most of his scenes were devastating. Him crying and always feeling alone? I demand joy - aroace joy 😠 He doesn't talk to any of his friends about what's going on, he yells at them in one scene and then they never talk about or bring it up again It really does seem like Isaac is there just to listen and support others But ofc, there are others who really loved and treasure this representation so a win's a win I guess
@@moosyamoo ur totally valid, esp after the new season - i hope aro and aceness can be tied to more joy and stuff as well as acknowledging the feelings of isolation & loneliness. that's just my preference
Heartstopper started off as a webtoon online series by Alice Oseman, which you can read even now. It's mainly about the relationship between Nick & Charlie. Alice has published the 4 books which are the bases for the Netflex series. Isaac does not exist in neither the webtoon nor the books. Alice created Isaac specifically to explore the subject of Aro & Ace, but still as secondary to the two main characters. It's probably a good bet that Isaac is going to be explored more in season 3. Alice has other books like "Solitaire" that focuses on Charlie's sister Tori.
I hope Isaac and Tori get close and can relate to each other and help each other. There is potential there but I don't think they will because a lot happens with Nick and Charlie. I still love Isaac though 😊 He reminds me of teen me. Always reading 😂
although aroace people like isaac do exist, i feel like the awkward nerd stereotypie is usually all we get (bonus points if they're less conventially attractive than the rest of the cast). there's nothing wrong with being a nerd, being fat, being aromantic, or being asexual, but when you have a character with all of these combined traits stand next to not one but three couples it does feel a bit alienating. it was difficult for me to get through season 1 of the show because i watched it during a time where i was struggling with my own aroace identity (happy for all 3 main ships but it was too many romance subplots for my little aromantic heart to handle lol) and i wonder if giving isaac his own story and not making him out to be the token lonely one would've helped me and others who may have felt the same
Exactly, I would have rather love seeing Isaac not be constantly left out from people who are supposed to be his friends. He kinda became the that thing people say when you tell them you’re aro/ace- “you’re gonna be so lonely. “
I dont want to sound rude, because being aro ace is completely valid, i just have a genuine question, considering this is a show, not real life, and the whole point is to give the audience something to be interested about. What exactly could he do that we would be interested in? Plots usually revolve around interpersonal relationships, what could he possibly do next season that we should care about?
@@Fan_Girl-xd8wy For example, he could have been good friends with multiple people on the show, maybe being the one who keeps the group together and reminds them of the importance of friendship while everyone else is busy with their love life. He could have had ANY other interest or personality trait apart from reading. An aroace character in a romantic show could have been so interesting! His thoughts, his view on what happens would be very interesting to me, especially because he only knows romance and sex from media. He isn't boring because he is aroace, but because he is being portrayed as a boring person who has no important connections with any other person in the world.
@@Fan_Girl-xd8wyrelationships can be complex and interesting without being romantic, and I feel like some people (probably the writers) might not fully understand that. At least for me, I don’t have less stuff going on just because I don’t wanna date someone, so the writers could do so much with him if they weren’t as reliant on romance to make an interesting plot
i liked the part at the art school where he met that other aroace person and where talking about how life has such a focus on romantic love, and the part where he kinda snapped at his friends for not being attentive to him outside of his love life, but i wish there was more bacuse that was really all of it. it felt like i came out of no where and quikly when away again. i would have loved to see a whole more detailed arc and attention like the other charecters got, even maybe a whole ep just following him around instead of the couples. imagine if the ep where he snaps was from issacs perspective, we follow him being left by himself places as the couples spead out. they group back toghter and its just more talk of romace, charecters needing advise, then leaving the convo once theyve got what they came for, he snaps, then they acualy talk to eachother. issac gets to come out and tell everyone hows hes been feeling super left out and unappreciated and we get more than 2 scenes of representation
You're so real for this. Like I'm glad we have SOMEONE in popular media, but like the show just confirmed my fears that none of my friends actually care about me. It especially hurts knowing his friends are supposed to be this caring, loving group of people
I do wish they have written Issac like how Ferb was written.Ferb doesn't talk that much but when he does everybody listens to him,Ferb feels like he is apart of the friends group despite him being a main character but the show runners didn't make Ferbs quietness his only personality Ferb is actually a cool character,he does other things and shows emotions and the other characters like him,the audiences sees him in different situations. Also in the comics Issac name is Aled (weird that they changed his name) and Aled doesn't show up much in the comics often and he rarely talks too.He is a book lover but we don't see him read all the time when he is on the page,just listening in and reacting to whatever situation he is witnessing but with Aled in the comics he does feel like he is apart of the group at least for me.His a-spec identity doesn't get discovered in the comics but in a book called Radio Silence so if you want to know more about him read that.I don't think Alice Oseman has enough control over the show,they aren't the director.It does feel like the director of the show is aware that Issac is a-spec and is aware of a-spec people but doesn't know what to do with him since the show is marketed as a queer romance.I don't have hope for this new character but maybe in season 3 the director will do something more.Even if it's bad or cringey but at least it is something
Issac is a separate character from Aled -- Alice didn't want to cast an actor for Aled and get his story caught up in Heartstopper, so she made the new character of Issac to fill his role in the friend group.
Aled is actually a separate character with his own NOVEL apart from Heartstopper. He's such a developed character on his own right but unfortunately, no one except Oseman readers would even catch hints of his story if Oseman decided to write him into the Heartstopper TV series. She didn't think it would be fair to her character of Aled if he was reduced to an NPC
I hate that he seemingly came out of nowhere, because he's replacing Aled Last, who's demisexual btw, from the comic. Alice didn't want to put Aled in heartstopper so people didn't start theorizing about a Radio Silence adaptation, since he's one of the main characters in that novel. It feels even worse cause Alice is aroace themselves!
This is such an interesting perspective. I'm in my 30s, so Heartstopper isn't really for me, but I couldn't put my finger on why until you elaborated about Isaac here. The show (I'm not familiar with the graphic novels), feels a bit too simple in some aspects, and I think you're very correct that Isaac's characterisation (or somewhat lack of) is part of that. And as a writer myself, this is something to bear in mind when writing aroace characters in my own work. Thank you for your video!
I'm super late, but even as a non aroace person, it felt like the books he read were just an excuse not to have him do anything important. It's disappointing considering aro ace people barely get any rep as it is. I'm sorry this happens so frequently.
Ngl Issac is pretty much me, in the friend group I was in no one, except two specific people rarely, ever talked to me except once when someone asked me to swap seats with them. I ended up sitting outside because it just made me feel sh1tty being ignored.
This is part of a bigger annoyance I have with AroAce characters where unfortunately because of how less known the identity is, it feels like most AroAce representation needs to drop dictionary definitions of the identity for the wider audience to know what it means. Even Bojack Horseman’s most prominent Asexual character has most scenes of his asexuality to define the sexuality. And the worst part is that this annoyance probably won’t ever change because of how unknown the identities are. I just wish the prominent scenes about the AroAceness of these characters is explaining the sexuality.
Yes!!! You mentioned every single thing that I was disappointed about after watching this show. It's just so unfair that Isaac got way less screen time and development than the other characters and that his only personality trait was liking books. I was so excited to watch it too, since Alice is aroace and they said when they were working on it that they had "Big Ace Plans" so I was expecting the season to focus a lot more on Isaac and bringing his character to the spotlight. But instead all we got were crumbs?? And Isaac's friends being awful to him and ignoring him?? I think the reason for some of this is because Alice decided to remove the character who was originally in the Heartstopper comics who was ace and replace him with Isaac, meaning that instead of using a preexisting character they had to make up a whole new one. I think they definitely could have put more thought into it. I mean, Isaac is not even shown to have a family, pets, or friendships outside of the main group. I hope they take in all of this criticism (I have seen many many aro and ace people who are also disappointed) and make the next season better. Okay I better stop writing or this will turn into a long ass rant, lmao. Thanks for making this video!
tysm for this video! i'm aroace and i love seeing discorse and discussions about aroace characters in media, because while they may be liked by most, it's always good to discuss the good and the bad, yk :)
I think that where Heartstopper falls short is in its relatability. For a lot of people the show is healing and its meant to be a happy story about two boys finding love and being accepted. But it just doesn’t feel like their friend group is like of high school age, and it doesn’t feel like the way a real friend group would be. Instead of weaving in the romance with the friendship, everybody pairs off and that’s why Isaac ends up alone. It really sucks because in a show for teenagers that’s about romantic relationships it still needs to be balanced out with themes of friendship, school, growing up etc. Those things are all still important to every teenager but the show throws it aside and love and romance is always the forefront and priority of the characters. It’s EVERYWHERE, ALL THE TIME. In real life there aren’t JUST romantic relationships, there are other types of relationships, and Heartstopper just doesn’t show that. (Also I want to say the teachers-getting-together thing was like kind of uncomfy, like pick an age group for your audience dude 😭)
Yes! Also I like the show but it felt like half the screen time was just charlie and nick making out. I understand that it shows how much they love each other but it just got irritating and uncomfortable. As an aroace teenager, who has quite a few gay friends, school is mainly about friendships! I’ve never gone in and had my friends just obsessing over their bf/gf and leaving me out bc of it, sure they’ll talk abt them and have their moments, but they’d never make it a reason to leave me out.
im pretty sure he wasnt important in the series is cus hes not in the comic. i think hes spose to replace a comic character alan but he has his own book so i dont think he was able to be in the show so they replaced him with isaac. my guess is cause they knew the fans would be dissapointed by alan not being there they just didnt do anything with him??? i could be totally wrong thats js my thought lol
0 seconds ago Funny enough, I am rereading Heartstopper on Webtoons right now. I watched season 1 and 2 of the show and was so happy that there was aroace representation in the show. I finally came to the realization 2 days ago that am also aroace and I am trying my best to learn more about the community. From watching creators like you and many others that speak about their experiences, it really does show that there are nuances in being aromantic or asexual. I was hopeful for this character and him having a great storyline. Sad to say, the writers didn’t seem to go in depth on showing us his life and bringing out more of his personality, other than his love for reading books 😅.
I am confident Issac explaining how he felt in the book shop after the kiss with james is the only reason I realized I was aroace. He will always be my favorite character 🧡💛🤍🩵💙
if the show cared about its queer relationships, they should've displayed every aspect of queer relationships - which most importantly shouldve included FRIENDSHIP. queer solidarity and friendship could be said to be far more important that romantic relationships, and in an ideal world, they could've written that into the show in a well rounded way. they already spent so much time with the friendships between charlie and tao, elle and tara and darcy, etc... why not this additional other character? why have him in the show in the first place if he serves no narrative purpose? there's this trend of including aro and ace characters in media nowadays for the brownie points, just to check a box. it makes me sad and tired man.
this video was so goebegoood. i'm not on ace or aro but i was excited when i heard there was going to be more focus on isaacs story because beforehand i.. i didnt really care ? probably because the only thing i remembered was that he read books and. thats it . but when i heard about the aro ace (or maybe iust ace for now) arc that sounded so cool!! theres not that much aroace rep and this has potential to be so INTERESTIGN, but when i watched it i think i wanted something more. I mean, my opinions on the rep dont particularly matter but i agree with this video. also i think i found a very cool channel. this looks like a very cool channel ofjrbh
I adore the series (I'm reading it in book form, but I'm on Webtoon as well) but I dropped off after the first episode of the television series because of the poor direction/pacing issues (TV and comics are two very different mediums, and some of the choices they made don't really work for me but I digress). Anyhoo thank you for the explanation and your take! I'm not ace, but part of the queer community, and I have multiple ace friends (I think all of us are neurodivergent). I'm writing an aro/ace character in my own comic series, partly inspired by the ace people I have met and hang out with. I'm afraid of falling into some of the stereotypes mentioned both in the video and in the comments. Here is a bit of background info on my character: Her story is mostly about her neurodivergence, and she happens to be ace. She is pretty self-sufficient, and she comes off as confident, stylish, bold, and direct. Throughout the series, she is chasing an ongoing occult mystery/conspiracy on her college campus. However, her story is that people see her/take her for granted and assume she never needs help or support, and she ends up getting left out/left behind when her friends hang out. That said, I haven't settled on her character arc yet. Basically - I'm seeing a lot of what _not_ to do when writing aro/ace characters, so I guess my question to the aro/ace folks here is what kind of aro/ace representation do you _want_ to see? Anything helps - thank you for taking the time to read this :)
As an aroace I would love to see someone with friends or a close family, even pets(because I hate the stereotype of "you're going to be so lonely" like... you can prefer not having a partner and still have meaningful relationships)
Aw, that sounds like such a sweet story! I would really like to see more aro/ace characters have strong friendships with others, not to replace a romantic relationship but as a beautiful thing all its own. Maybe your character could find someone who challenges her self sufficiency by wanting to help her and actually sees who she truly is. And then her arc could be about her refusing the help offered because she's scared of getting too close to others, knowing that they might leave her behind. But then eventually they become close friends through some sort of plot happening that puts them in danger/forces them to both be honest. And of course the friend supports her being self sufficient, but not to the point of hurting herself. It's also nice to see aspec people support each other, so maybe the friend could realize that they are also ace or aro. And it doesn't have to be two of them against the world, maybe the original friends are there too and they realize that they have not been paying enough attention to her and try to make things right. Of course, this is just a suggestion from a fellow writer, feel free to disregard if it doesn't work for your story!
Yeah I agree with you. He's like the little 'forgotten' sideline character who isn't very social coz he carries a book literally EVERYWHERE! News flash! Aroaces DO NOT carry books everywhere 😅 I think if they got rid of the books, he'd definitely be more seen 😊 Also, Tobie Donovan(who plays him) isn't Aroace in real life either! He's MLM gay but still 😅
Bro bro, awesome video as always. I also didn't like the way writers decided to represent acoace through Isaac's character. Not only did they create a stereotype for aroace people (or at least, I didn't quite relate to Isaac personally) that we seem shy and distant. Though some of us might generally be that way but not because of our sexual orientation. I was also confused how little effort they put into his "plot", knowing Alice is actually aroace as well. Bottom line, I didn't like this AroAce representation we got, I know we should be greatful that we got a piece of whatever we should call that but nope, I ain't taking that. Anyways, I love watching your vids cause I relate to most of your content. And as to what you should do next, I know their isn't much AroAce characters out there but, can you do Asexual and/or Aromantic cartoon character representations that actually did a good job at showing what it's like. Other than that, thank you for the content!!
THANK YOU! i am definitely not asexual and really don't understand it very well, but his entire character seems to equate it with being rather antisocial with his books constantly and especially in social situations and nothing more. in the first season that's basically all we knew about him. i am almost positive that asexual people doesn't mean they are antisocial. they really should have written him such that he's interesting in his own right TO US before introducing his asexuality. in the web comic Charlie's sister Tori is starting to have the asexual story arc and *she* is something i'm really interested in because i care a lot about her already and want to know more about her.
though i do think this criticism is valid and really thought provoking, i also think that part of the reason Isaac’s so left out in the show is because of the limited role his character in the comics has. Aled was basically Isaac’s role in the comics version of Heartstopper, and only really had lines in bonus episodes of the web series. This is because Aled was really only an easter egg from one of Alice Oseman’s other books, Radio Silence. All of Oseman’s books take place in the same universe so Aled was really only a reminder of this. In Radio Silence, Aled is a much /much/ more prominent character, but he is not aroace. (🚨slight spoiler) he reveals himself to be demi romantic/sexual at the end of the book and ends up getting a boyfriend. The book is really great and i definitely recommend. Also Tori (Charlie’s sister) is canonically asexual, and this is mentioned in the more recent episodes of Heartstopper which are free on webtoon and tapas if you’re interested. Tori also has a book about her called Solitaire, but this doesn’t explicitly mention her asexuality IIRC. Anyway, when the comics were converted into the show, i think they wanted to give Aled /something/ so they renamed him to Isaac and gave him more lines and appearances. I do think the show could’ve done a better job with Isaac, maybe giving him some more personality or screen time, but i also understand the limited run time they had. They really could’ve just gotten rid of the whole Imogen plot tho, since that wasn’t even from the comics. anyway, just thought i’d share that and give some recommendations since Alice rlly is my fav. love ur vids 💖💖💖💖
Its not just heartstopper ive seen this in a lot of webtoons and queer media made by gen z like webtoons and whatnot, but the aro character is just there because they wanted an aro character. Sometimes theyre plot relevant but most of the time they have limited screen time or arent relevant. Ive seen in a lot of webtoons the main cast are all posed together and literally everyone is in a relationship. so all the couples are holding hands and then theres just the aro character who is just standing there awkwardly.
Would be fun if they would bring Isaac in a relationship. One that isn't romantic or sexual. Platonic love etc. Like, it would be cool if that would become relevant with him, because it is something that is very difficult for most people to understand
I think what I find most unusual about the character of Isaac is that Alice Oseman, Heartstopper's author, is aro-ace. I read another of her books called Loveless, in which the main character realises she is aro-ace and processes that. In both cases, the aro-ace character is someone who was obsessed with romance novels, but then realise it's not something they personally want. Maybe I'm being too harsh, since I'm aware these are based on the author's personal experiences (based on interviews I've watched), but it feels very narrow for what is a very broad spectrum of experiences. I think it shows the wider problem that aro-ace representation in media is heavily focused on coming out, but then doesn't look at how our lives are in general. It doesn't engage properly with the moments of doubt or getting questioned by impolite morons. I think Isaac could be a good character to challenge the idea that people just say that until they're ready to come out as gay. He had a gay love interest that he turned down, actually challenging the audience for assuming they would get together. But I think because being aro-ace doesn't create the same level of immediate drama, the focus instead goes on allo characters.
I haven’t watched the show or read the book but if I was him i’d just find new friends because if I was in a group where everyone else coupled up and i was always alone i’d just leave 😭
This is a random thing I can't get out of my head, but is Heartstopper really that good? I've seen both seasons of course I'm not gonna say that without having done so, it just seems pretty surface level a lot of times. The only relationship that really ever interested me was Darcy and Tara's. It feels like everything Heartstopper has done, was either done poorly, or has been done before better. Like the first episode Tao has a line that is essentially "We're the losers, we sit here and we eat together, we're different from the jocks playing their sportsball over there." like c'mon, you don't need to shove the trope I've seen 100 times before down my throat. I feel we as a community are so starved for representation we will raise up anything that throws us a bone. I wish another webtoon with far more interesting themes or plots was adapted. They could do something interesting with Ben's internalized homophobia and probable self-hate but I can't imagine this show actually giving more minor characters like him significant depth. Another thing I'd like to tack on here is that it feels like a lot of shows that have representation for lgbt+ people are not made for lgbt+ people. Most mainstream representation is like either fetishization, performative, or woefully misinformed. There is still plenty of great stuff, but for mainstream romance shows I can't name one. For ones that are focused on other stuff but have a romance side-plot running with it like The Owl House it goes great, just 2 regular people in love who happen to both be girls. For these shows it feels like they lean into the characters being gay a lot more, like it's a core character trait. It's not, natural hair colour isn't a character trait, neither is eye colour, skin colour, or any other uncontrollable trait. Think about it, what arc has really happened in Heartstopper that wouldn't have happened if this show had no queer characters? I can't think of one. Sorry for the huge paragraph I've just been thinking about this for months.
What you said here makes sense! As for the TV series vs the comic, I've created a few comics series, plus a few animations/films, and here is my take: Honestly the book series is one of the sweetest and most heartwarming comics I've read, and I read a lot of indie comics haha. The style is unique and loose instead of polished and maximal, plus the pacing is sweet. There are TONS of romance series out there, but many of them force drama and are abrasive. However, for me, the Heartstopper books (at least the first one) are more gentle, but still pack a bunch of emotion, so they feel like a breath of fresh air. As for the television series, I was disappointed. I stopped after just one episode because of the direction - they seemed to copy DIRECTLY from the comics, instead of respecting that TV and comics are two completely different mediums. The pacing felt off, the characters fell flat, etc. There's this old saying "the medium is the message" which basically means that the same story will feel completely different when presented in different mediums (aka what's subtle on paper comes off as watered-down on the screen). Overall, it seems the Heartstopper production team didn't make bold enough choices for the series to stand out. Maybe it's because in comics you can read at your own pace, maybe it's the occasional little smiley in a speech bubble, but to me the comic version has more life. Or perhaps the tropes read differently because of how earnest and heart-on-your-sleeve the comic is. If you haven't read the comic, you can read it on Webtoon (hopefully they haven't put it behind a paywall yet) but reading the series as a physical book is far more immersive. And if you still don't like the series, I totally get it 😅 I am also sorry for dropping this essay; I've also thought about this for months 😩
yes, yes and yes to this. I feel like this very accurately displayed how I feel about heartstopper. tbh im kind of starting to just use it more as inspiration to try and make something out of its failures. AND IM GLAD YOU MENTIONED BEN. I read a bunch of heartstopper meta on him and it made me feel so mad for how little the show seemed to care for him.
@@samconcklin I don't really intend to read the comic, if it is as you say and the themes and plots are the same I don't see much of a point. I like big overarching plots that build up which Heartstopper doesn't have, I also much prefer things that stand out more. Some stuff like Cherry Crush with all of it's tension and emotional moments. Castle Swimmer with its mystery and unique setting. I could go on, I think a large part of me is mad Heartstopper got this amazing chance to become a real show when there are at least in my opinion other webtoons that would take to the medium better. I think that the show being the same as the webtoon isn't as much of an issue, the thought process is probably that it can get more people into the book and they are put off by the change. Changing the plot can risk ruining it completely, a lot of people like the One Piece live action, but to me it just kind of takes away from so many key moments One Piece had in the East Blue saga. Though One Piece's LA has the issue of covering an absurd amount of ground in a much shorter amount of time. Though I guess if the plot was the same, I wouldn't watch it since I've never even bothered rewatching the real East Blue saga. Though my issues mainly lie with how they did some scenes, gave characters lines they didn't have, changed settings, changed how Syrup Village was for Usopp. Sorry for rambling.
@@artistic.unreliably I haven't really seen much discussion around him when to me he has the opportunity of becoming one of the most complex characters. Though I also haven't seen many people talk about Heartstopper.
I think my biggest… annoyance with how his character was handled was the dissonance(?) with the rest of the show’s tone. Although Heartstopper /does/ have serious and sad etc moments, what I really liked about it was how lighthearted and happy it ultimately was. Yes there is some struggling over figuring out your sexuality, coming out, etc. but ultimately it’s a happiness fantasy where things more or less work out forever everyone and the worst doesn’t happen, no one is (from a show writing if not literally canonical point of view) ostracized or criticized for their identity: Even when Darcy is kicked out, there isn’t a fear that she’ll be living on the streets or that she (or anyone else) will be a victim of “gay panic”*, because the show is framed as lighthearted and happy, and that would be a huge escalation consequences not in line with the show’s plot, so even its lowest lows always /narratively/ feel like they will resolve (and thus far: always have been resolved). but Isaac’s arc felt like the realization of common aroase fear of ~being an outcast in a society that emphasizes the importance of romantic/sexual relationships~ (or, at least it’s a fear that both me and my friend (both aro ase) have expressed, and that I’ve seen mutuals on tumblr (who are aro/ase/aro ase) express). Like, not only is Isaac miserable in cannon (upsetting and annoying for rep, because I want all the aro-ases to be happy), but from the way the show was framed (including his talk with art fair dude), it seems like Isaac /is/ doomed to not have even /friends/ because of the ~insurmountable~ difference of… dating choices /s, and that aro ase-ness is inherent both lonely and incompatible with our society, even an idealized fantasy shiny happy version on our society (where Heartstopper takes place). *”gay panic” as in: (the legal defence for) attacking a gay (queer) person because a queer person was existing, which is panic inducing enough that attacking them was clearly self defence. NOT “gay panic” as in: a queer person being too gay to function TL:DR Isaac is given a story line way more depressing that the normally low stakes (narratively, if not canonically) character arcs and self discoveries of other Heartstopper characters. Also, just not personally relatable, which is clearly the biggest sin :/
I don't know the show, but I sm somewhere on the aroace spectrum and I hate how it is often portrait, like somewhere (I don't know where exactly) there was an aspec character, who just hated other people for being intressted in sex or only had short-lasting romantic relationships.
I feel like it would have been MORE realistic- not that Isaac’s story arc is not realistic, but it would have been more likely to reach the target audience- if he just slowly over time realised that romance and sex was something he wasn’t interested in. Like I feel that as a aroace student everything else just kind of takes up your focus and you kind of forget romance is there until you get towards a mature age and its plausible for people your age. It would have been nice to see him wanting to be able to feel that way, while also being happy and grateful for the way things are currently, and not having any of his relationships progress to a romantic point because he’s comfortable with the way things are. As an aroace, intimate relationships sound nice but I’m way too apprehensive to attempt one because idk what it feels like so I might end up hurting the other person somehow?
I have to look more into in peridot cuz I wasn’t a stable Steven universe watcher. From my perspective so far, I like peridot but I’m not that super knowledgeable about her character/plot.
This is how i see it: he's represented. That's a good start. A series/movie can only focus on a few characters at once because the story gets dragged along the more characters you introduce. Of course there won't be a lot of aroace characters in media yet. The giant plethora of identities have only really surfaced within the last 10-15 years, which is a very small length of time. You have to give creators a chance to learn and develop. I don't know how old you are, but I'm assuming you're quite young. If so, you have no clue how amazing it is just to have a queer character in the media. At all. The fact that there's an aroace person AT ALL in ANY type of mainstream media is a giant leap forward. Trust me, things can only get better from here. Feel lucky that you got to grow up with positive queer representation. I didn't get to have that till i was 16. Before then, seeing a gay character was very rare. So yeah, Isaac is there, hun. Just because he's not explored to the extent you personally would like doesn't mean he's been forgotten. As you stated, Alice is aroace, so she probably loves Isaac more than any of you. But her series revolves around the select relationships. Writing in a subplot for one of the side-main characters is risky from a business standpoint. Fans watch the series for the main characters. Viewership might go down if they deviate. Lower viewership means less income. Less income means less chances to greenlight new seasons. Which means no more live action Isaac, period. Would you like Isaac there or not at all? The fact that series is very popular is a testament to how good the writing is. Be thankful there is a very dedicated, passionate team behind Heartstoppers. It could've easily been a throwaway series with little thought or substance. But you said it yourself, you love the series, despite it not going the way you'd like to with one character. I'm non-binary and i rarely see characters with that identity, especially my own age. Raine from TOH is the closest i have to an older enby and I'm perfectly happy with that. Any positive representation is a good thing. Take what you can, kids. When you get older, create, create, create. Make tons more mainstream queer representation. Saturate the market with it. Be the change you want to see. Alice did it. Lots of other queer people are. Join them. :) 🌈
I’m sorry, i don’t mean to come off that way. I know Alice is aroace and i do try to do a bit of research for my videos. I was just confused cuz when I look up writers for the heartstopper show. It shows a couple people. But ik Lauren is the story consultant for like 8 eps. They aren’t exactly the writer of the show but they kinda watch over what Alice writes for the script ig. And Alice wasn’t the director of the show and directors kinda have a huge say in how the show goes. So Alice is not alone in the process of heartstopper show. That’s more of what I meant.
as an aroace person, i think that i relate to how issac kind of gets left behind by his friends, which is one of my biggest fears
Yea that happened to me
rel
same
I feel like they should've explored Tori as the aro-ace rep since the writing is already there to build upon rather than creating a new character. But it is too late now and I hope they do isaac justice
i get this but i feel like i should say that Tori is only canonically asexual, and that's only started to get explored in the newest volume of the visual novels so..
@@v3finch24 ohh cool, i didn't know that (i haven't checked in on the new chapters for a bit)
@@emubeepboop lol you're good :) (also i just realised your og comment was posted 7 months ago omg what am i doing 😭)
Tori's asexual process will absolutely be shown in the next season
I’m not gonna lie. The fact that there even was aroace representation was already enough of a win for me 😭
It’s honestly sad that we have to settle for any sliver of representation that we can get.
Totally get where you're coming from with this! I actually quite enjoyed his aroace subplot but I agree that Isaac's character is somewhat underdeveloped and purposeless. Reading does seem to be his main personality trait, to the effect that someone I know thought he was autistic rather than just aroace (which ofc he could be both, but it didn't sit well with me that they seemed to think him being aroace was part of his autism). I'm thinking that the reason for his 2D-ness might be because he was one of the only characters not included in the graphic novels the series was adapted from. It would make sense that the writers had less information to go by and Alice maybe didn't have as much control as she might have, had she pre-written him beforehand. Just my thoughts!
Now I had no idea he wasn’t in the original book. The creator probably didn’t have that much control of his character then
Ele foi criado pra substituir o Alec, q também não tem muita participação nas comics de Heartstopper, mas q é um dos principais no livro Rádio silêncio, e por isso Alice Oseman (autora das comics e dos livros) criou Isaac, caso surja uma oportunidade de adaptar Rádio silêncio. (Inclusive, nos livros de Alice Oseman tem muita representação aro e ace. O próprio Alec é gay e Demisexual, e Loveless é um livro protagonizado por Georgia e sua jornada se descobrindo aroace com o apoio de seus amigos, a Tori (irmã de Charlie, protagonista de Solitário) é assexual, e A própria Alice Oseman é Aroace e não binário :D
P.S: imogen também é original apenas da série
@@bmudangelshe wrote the scripts, so I would imagine she did have full control...
@@sandramatras8345 yeah but didn’t she have like script readers and editors. Like she didn’t do it all by herself. Yeah she got the main points but the script editors and whatever probably took or added stuff that probably went against some of Alice would actually want to do. But all in all, I’m no show maker so I only have so much knowledge on how a show is produced lol. I’m sure Alice was working hard as hell on her show as she was the only script writer and I’m glad she was able to do it. It’s rlly a dream come true to have ur story/comic become a movie/show. And a good one too!
I was also let down
I hated that most of his scenes were devastating. Him crying and always feeling alone?
I demand joy - aroace joy 😠
He doesn't talk to any of his friends about what's going on, he yells at them in one scene and then they never talk about or bring it up again
It really does seem like Isaac is there just to listen and support others
But ofc, there are others who really loved and treasure this representation so a win's a win I guess
Exactly- I WANT AROACE JOY
I mean..... I kin him 😞 it's realistic for me
@@moosyamoo ur totally valid, esp after the new season - i hope aro and aceness can be tied to more joy and stuff as well as acknowledging the feelings of isolation & loneliness. that's just my preference
Heartstopper started off as a webtoon online series by Alice Oseman, which you can read even now. It's mainly about the relationship between Nick & Charlie. Alice has published the 4 books which are the bases for the Netflex series. Isaac does not exist in neither the webtoon nor the books. Alice created Isaac specifically to explore the subject of Aro & Ace, but still as secondary to the two main characters. It's probably a good bet that Isaac is going to be explored more in season 3. Alice has other books like "Solitaire" that focuses on Charlie's sister Tori.
Theirs also radio silence (wich has issac in it) and Loveless that focus on being aroace (its the main plot)
@@u3rn0tf0nd6no, you’re getting Isaac confused with Aled Last, who is the character Isaac replaces in the show.
@@sunnydays07 oh yea my bad
I hope Isaac and Tori get close and can relate to each other and help each other. There is potential there but I don't think they will because a lot happens with Nick and Charlie. I still love Isaac though 😊 He reminds me of teen me. Always reading 😂
although aroace people like isaac do exist, i feel like the awkward nerd stereotypie is usually all we get (bonus points if they're less conventially attractive than the rest of the cast). there's nothing wrong with being a nerd, being fat, being aromantic, or being asexual, but when you have a character with all of these combined traits stand next to not one but three couples it does feel a bit alienating. it was difficult for me to get through season 1 of the show because i watched it during a time where i was struggling with my own aroace identity (happy for all 3 main ships but it was too many romance subplots for my little aromantic heart to handle lol) and i wonder if giving isaac his own story and not making him out to be the token lonely one would've helped me and others who may have felt the same
Exactly, I would have rather love seeing Isaac not be constantly left out from people who are supposed to be his friends. He kinda became the that thing people say when you tell them you’re aro/ace- “you’re gonna be so lonely. “
I dont want to sound rude, because being aro ace is completely valid, i just have a genuine question, considering this is a show, not real life, and the whole point is to give the audience something to be interested about. What exactly could he do that we would be interested in? Plots usually revolve around interpersonal relationships, what could he possibly do next season that we should care about?
@@Fan_Girl-xd8wy For example, he could have been good friends with multiple people on the show, maybe being the one who keeps the group together and reminds them of the importance of friendship while everyone else is busy with their love life. He could have had ANY other interest or personality trait apart from reading. An aroace character in a romantic show could have been so interesting! His thoughts, his view on what happens would be very interesting to me, especially because he only knows romance and sex from media. He isn't boring because he is aroace, but because he is being portrayed as a boring person who has no important connections with any other person in the world.
@@Fan_Girl-xd8wyrelationships can be complex and interesting without being romantic, and I feel like some people (probably the writers) might not fully understand that. At least for me, I don’t have less stuff going on just because I don’t wanna date someone, so the writers could do so much with him if they weren’t as reliant on romance to make an interesting plot
REALLLL@@softfirecrow
i liked the part at the art school where he met that other aroace person and where talking about how life has such a focus on romantic love, and the part where he kinda snapped at his friends for not being attentive to him outside of his love life, but i wish there was more bacuse that was really all of it. it felt like i came out of no where and quikly when away again.
i would have loved to see a whole more detailed arc and attention like the other charecters got, even maybe a whole ep just following him around instead of the couples. imagine if the ep where he snaps was from issacs perspective, we follow him being left by himself places as the couples spead out. they group back toghter and its just more talk of romace, charecters needing advise, then leaving the convo once theyve got what they came for, he snaps, then they acualy talk to eachother. issac gets to come out and tell everyone hows hes been feeling super left out and unappreciated and we get more than 2 scenes of representation
You're so real for this. Like I'm glad we have SOMEONE in popular media, but like the show just confirmed my fears that none of my friends actually care about me. It especially hurts knowing his friends are supposed to be this caring, loving group of people
I do wish they have written Issac like how Ferb was written.Ferb doesn't talk that much but when he does everybody listens to him,Ferb feels like he is apart of the friends group despite him being a main character but the show runners didn't make Ferbs quietness his only personality Ferb is actually a cool character,he does other things and shows emotions and the other characters like him,the audiences sees him in different situations.
Also in the comics Issac name is Aled (weird that they changed his name) and Aled doesn't show up much in the comics often and he rarely talks too.He is a book lover but we don't see him read all the time when he is on the page,just listening in and reacting to whatever situation he is witnessing but with Aled in the comics he does feel like he is apart of the group at least for me.His a-spec identity doesn't get discovered in the comics but in a book called Radio Silence so if you want to know more about him read that.I don't think Alice Oseman has enough control over the show,they aren't the director.It does feel like the director of the show is aware that Issac is a-spec and is aware of a-spec people but doesn't know what to do with him since the show is marketed as a queer romance.I don't have hope for this new character but maybe in season 3 the director will do something more.Even if it's bad or cringey but at least it is something
Issac is a separate character from Aled -- Alice didn't want to cast an actor for Aled and get his story caught up in Heartstopper, so she made the new character of Issac to fill his role in the friend group.
@@itsiz9738 Ah that makes sense
Aled is actually a separate character with his own NOVEL apart from Heartstopper. He's such a developed character on his own right but unfortunately, no one except Oseman readers would even catch hints of his story if Oseman decided to write him into the Heartstopper TV series. She didn't think it would be fair to her character of Aled if he was reduced to an NPC
I hate that he seemingly came out of nowhere, because he's replacing Aled Last, who's demisexual btw, from the comic. Alice didn't want to put Aled in heartstopper so people didn't start theorizing about a Radio Silence adaptation, since he's one of the main characters in that novel.
It feels even worse cause Alice is aroace themselves!
I can’t be the only one who thinks this about heartstopper.
Anyways- What should I talk about next?
This is such an interesting perspective. I'm in my 30s, so Heartstopper isn't really for me, but I couldn't put my finger on why until you elaborated about Isaac here. The show (I'm not familiar with the graphic novels), feels a bit too simple in some aspects, and I think you're very correct that Isaac's characterisation (or somewhat lack of) is part of that. And as a writer myself, this is something to bear in mind when writing aroace characters in my own work. Thank you for your video!
Issac is like that friend everybody knows but nobody remembers? I think that's the right words.
I'm super late, but even as a non aroace person, it felt like the books he read were just an excuse not to have him do anything important. It's disappointing considering aro ace people barely get any rep as it is. I'm sorry this happens so frequently.
Ngl Issac is pretty much me, in the friend group I was in no one, except two specific people rarely, ever talked to me except once when someone asked me to swap seats with them. I ended up sitting outside because it just made me feel sh1tty being ignored.
Thank you for speaking about this, there is little aroace content on here
Absolutely
This is part of a bigger annoyance I have with AroAce characters where unfortunately because of how less known the identity is, it feels like most AroAce representation needs to drop dictionary definitions of the identity for the wider audience to know what it means. Even Bojack Horseman’s most prominent Asexual character has most scenes of his asexuality to define the sexuality.
And the worst part is that this annoyance probably won’t ever change because of how unknown the identities are. I just wish the prominent scenes about the AroAceness of these characters is explaining the sexuality.
honestly any time I 'come out' it just turns into a ted talk about the different types of attraction lol
Yes!!! You mentioned every single thing that I was disappointed about after watching this show. It's just so unfair that Isaac got way less screen time and development than the other characters and that his only personality trait was liking books. I was so excited to watch it too, since Alice is aroace and they said when they were working on it that they had "Big Ace Plans" so I was expecting the season to focus a lot more on Isaac and bringing his character to the spotlight. But instead all we got were crumbs?? And Isaac's friends being awful to him and ignoring him??
I think the reason for some of this is because Alice decided to remove the character who was originally in the Heartstopper comics who was ace and replace him with Isaac, meaning that instead of using a preexisting character they had to make up a whole new one. I think they definitely could have put more thought into it. I mean, Isaac is not even shown to have a family, pets, or friendships outside of the main group. I hope they take in all of this criticism (I have seen many many aro and ace people who are also disappointed) and make the next season better. Okay I better stop writing or this will turn into a long ass rant, lmao. Thanks for making this video!
tysm for this video! i'm aroace and i love seeing discorse and discussions about aroace characters in media, because while they may be liked by most, it's always good to discuss the good and the bad, yk :)
I’m glad you enjoyed the video :))))
I think that where Heartstopper falls short is in its relatability. For a lot of people the show is healing and its meant to be a happy story about two boys finding love and being accepted. But it just doesn’t feel like their friend group is like of high school age, and it doesn’t feel like the way a real friend group would be. Instead of weaving in the romance with the friendship, everybody pairs off and that’s why Isaac ends up alone. It really sucks because in a show for teenagers that’s about romantic relationships it still needs to be balanced out with themes of friendship, school, growing up etc. Those things are all still important to every teenager but the show throws it aside and love and romance is always the forefront and priority of the characters. It’s EVERYWHERE, ALL THE TIME. In real life there aren’t JUST romantic relationships, there are other types of relationships, and Heartstopper just doesn’t show that.
(Also I want to say the teachers-getting-together thing was like kind of uncomfy, like pick an age group for your audience dude 😭)
Yes! Also I like the show but it felt like half the screen time was just charlie and nick making out. I understand that it shows how much they love each other but it just got irritating and uncomfortable. As an aroace teenager, who has quite a few gay friends, school is mainly about friendships! I’ve never gone in and had my friends just obsessing over their bf/gf and leaving me out bc of it, sure they’ll talk abt them and have their moments, but they’d never make it a reason to leave me out.
im pretty sure he wasnt important in the series is cus hes not in the comic. i think hes spose to replace a comic character alan but he has his own book so i dont think he was able to be in the show so they replaced him with isaac. my guess is cause they knew the fans would be dissapointed by alan not being there they just didnt do anything with him??? i could be totally wrong thats js my thought lol
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Funny enough, I am rereading Heartstopper on Webtoons right now. I watched season 1 and 2 of the show and was so happy that there was aroace representation in the show. I finally came to the realization 2 days ago that am also aroace and I am trying my best to learn more about the community. From watching creators like you and many others that speak about their experiences, it really does show that there are nuances in being aromantic or asexual. I was hopeful for this character and him having a great storyline. Sad to say, the writers didn’t seem to go in depth on showing us his life and bringing out more of his personality, other than his love for reading books 😅.
I am confident Issac explaining how he felt in the book shop after the kiss with james is the only reason I realized I was aroace. He will always be my favorite character 🧡💛🤍🩵💙
Also this is my moms account im on cuz for some reason mine won’t let me comment 😭
if the show cared about its queer relationships, they should've displayed every aspect of queer relationships - which most importantly shouldve included FRIENDSHIP. queer solidarity and friendship could be said to be far more important that romantic relationships, and in an ideal world, they could've written that into the show in a well rounded way. they already spent so much time with the friendships between charlie and tao, elle and tara and darcy, etc... why not this additional other character? why have him in the show in the first place if he serves no narrative purpose?
there's this trend of including aro and ace characters in media nowadays for the brownie points, just to check a box. it makes me sad and tired man.
this video was so goebegoood. i'm not on ace or aro but i was excited when i heard there was going to be more focus on isaacs story because beforehand i.. i didnt really care ? probably because the only thing i remembered was that he read books and. thats it . but when i heard about the aro ace (or maybe iust ace for now) arc that sounded so cool!! theres not that much aroace rep and this has potential to be so INTERESTIGN, but when i watched it i think i wanted something more. I mean, my opinions on the rep dont particularly matter but i agree with this video. also i think i found a very cool channel. this looks like a very cool channel ofjrbh
The music is poppin'💃
But yeah it feels like most authors don't know what to do with Aro/ace peeps, like, romance ain't everything.
Be creative
I adore the series (I'm reading it in book form, but I'm on Webtoon as well) but I dropped off after the first episode of the television series because of the poor direction/pacing issues (TV and comics are two very different mediums, and some of the choices they made don't really work for me but I digress). Anyhoo thank you for the explanation and your take!
I'm not ace, but part of the queer community, and I have multiple ace friends (I think all of us are neurodivergent). I'm writing an aro/ace character in my own comic series, partly inspired by the ace people I have met and hang out with. I'm afraid of falling into some of the stereotypes mentioned both in the video and in the comments. Here is a bit of background info on my character:
Her story is mostly about her neurodivergence, and she happens to be ace. She is pretty self-sufficient, and she comes off as confident, stylish, bold, and direct. Throughout the series, she is chasing an ongoing occult mystery/conspiracy on her college campus. However, her story is that people see her/take her for granted and assume she never needs help or support, and she ends up getting left out/left behind when her friends hang out. That said, I haven't settled on her character arc yet.
Basically - I'm seeing a lot of what _not_ to do when writing aro/ace characters, so I guess my question to the aro/ace folks here is what kind of aro/ace representation do you _want_ to see? Anything helps - thank you for taking the time to read this :)
As an aroace I would love to see someone with friends or a close family, even pets(because I hate the stereotype of "you're going to be so lonely" like... you can prefer not having a partner and still have meaningful relationships)
I love the self sufficient neurodivergent aroace arc, it avoids the "childish, immature'" stereotype of both groups.
Aw, that sounds like such a sweet story! I would really like to see more aro/ace characters have strong friendships with others, not to replace a romantic relationship but as a beautiful thing all its own. Maybe your character could find someone who challenges her self sufficiency by wanting to help her and actually sees who she truly is. And then her arc could be about her refusing the help offered because she's scared of getting too close to others, knowing that they might leave her behind. But then eventually they become close friends through some sort of plot happening that puts them in danger/forces them to both be honest. And of course the friend supports her being self sufficient, but not to the point of hurting herself. It's also nice to see aspec people support each other, so maybe the friend could realize that they are also ace or aro. And it doesn't have to be two of them against the world, maybe the original friends are there too and they realize that they have not been paying enough attention to her and try to make things right.
Of course, this is just a suggestion from a fellow writer, feel free to disregard if it doesn't work for your story!
Yeah I agree with you. He's like the little 'forgotten' sideline character who isn't very social coz he carries a book literally EVERYWHERE! News flash! Aroaces DO NOT carry books everywhere 😅
I think if they got rid of the books, he'd definitely be more seen 😊
Also, Tobie Donovan(who plays him) isn't Aroace in real life either! He's MLM gay but still 😅
Bro bro, awesome video as always. I also didn't like the way writers decided to represent acoace through Isaac's character. Not only did they create a stereotype for aroace people (or at least, I didn't quite relate to Isaac personally) that we seem shy and distant. Though some of us might generally be that way but not because of our sexual orientation. I was also confused how little effort they put into his "plot", knowing Alice is actually aroace as well. Bottom line, I didn't like this AroAce representation we got, I know we should be greatful that we got a piece of whatever we should call that but nope, I ain't taking that. Anyways, I love watching your vids cause I relate to most of your content. And as to what you should do next, I know their isn't much AroAce characters out there but, can you do Asexual and/or Aromantic cartoon character representations that actually did a good job at showing what it's like. Other than that, thank you for the content!!
THANK YOU! i am definitely not asexual and really don't understand it very well, but his entire character seems to equate it with being rather antisocial with his books constantly and especially in social situations and nothing more. in the first season that's basically all we knew about him. i am almost positive that asexual people doesn't mean they are antisocial. they really should have written him such that he's interesting in his own right TO US before introducing his asexuality.
in the web comic Charlie's sister Tori is starting to have the asexual story arc and *she* is something i'm really interested in because i care a lot about her already and want to know more about her.
haven't seen the show, only trailers, sounds like the writers missed a chance to show a qpr
HOLY SHIT I didn’t even think about that but yeah!
though i do think this criticism is valid and really thought provoking, i also think that part of the reason Isaac’s so left out in the show is because of the limited role his character in the comics has. Aled was basically Isaac’s role in the comics version of Heartstopper, and only really had lines in bonus episodes of the web series. This is because Aled was really only an easter egg from one of Alice Oseman’s other books, Radio Silence. All of Oseman’s books take place in the same universe so Aled was really only a reminder of this. In Radio Silence, Aled is a much /much/ more prominent character, but he is not aroace. (🚨slight spoiler) he reveals himself to be demi romantic/sexual at the end of the book and ends up getting a boyfriend. The book is really great and i definitely recommend. Also Tori (Charlie’s sister) is canonically asexual, and this is mentioned in the more recent episodes of Heartstopper which are free on webtoon and tapas if you’re interested. Tori also has a book about her called Solitaire, but this doesn’t explicitly mention her asexuality IIRC. Anyway, when the comics were converted into the show, i think they wanted to give Aled /something/ so they renamed him to Isaac and gave him more lines and appearances. I do think the show could’ve done a better job with Isaac, maybe giving him some more personality or screen time, but i also understand the limited run time they had. They really could’ve just gotten rid of the whole Imogen plot tho, since that wasn’t even from the comics. anyway, just thought i’d share that and give some recommendations since Alice rlly is my fav. love ur vids 💖💖💖💖
Its not just heartstopper ive seen this in a lot of webtoons and queer media made by gen z like webtoons and whatnot, but the aro character is just there because they wanted an aro character. Sometimes theyre plot relevant but most of the time they have limited screen time or arent relevant. Ive seen in a lot of webtoons the main cast are all posed together and literally everyone is in a relationship. so all the couples are holding hands and then theres just the aro character who is just standing there awkwardly.
Spot on
Would be fun if they would bring Isaac in a relationship. One that isn't romantic or sexual. Platonic love etc. Like, it would be cool if that would become relevant with him, because it is something that is very difficult for most people to understand
I think what I find most unusual about the character of Isaac is that Alice Oseman, Heartstopper's author, is aro-ace. I read another of her books called Loveless, in which the main character realises she is aro-ace and processes that. In both cases, the aro-ace character is someone who was obsessed with romance novels, but then realise it's not something they personally want. Maybe I'm being too harsh, since I'm aware these are based on the author's personal experiences (based on interviews I've watched), but it feels very narrow for what is a very broad spectrum of experiences.
I think it shows the wider problem that aro-ace representation in media is heavily focused on coming out, but then doesn't look at how our lives are in general. It doesn't engage properly with the moments of doubt or getting questioned by impolite morons.
I think Isaac could be a good character to challenge the idea that people just say that until they're ready to come out as gay. He had a gay love interest that he turned down, actually challenging the audience for assuming they would get together. But I think because being aro-ace doesn't create the same level of immediate drama, the focus instead goes on allo characters.
I haven’t watched the show or read the book but if I was him i’d just find new friends because if I was in a group where everyone else coupled up and i was always alone i’d just leave 😭
you should check out the ace rep in heartbreak high, its quite good :))
This is a random thing I can't get out of my head, but is Heartstopper really that good? I've seen both seasons of course I'm not gonna say that without having done so, it just seems pretty surface level a lot of times. The only relationship that really ever interested me was Darcy and Tara's. It feels like everything Heartstopper has done, was either done poorly, or has been done before better. Like the first episode Tao has a line that is essentially "We're the losers, we sit here and we eat together, we're different from the jocks playing their sportsball over there." like c'mon, you don't need to shove the trope I've seen 100 times before down my throat. I feel we as a community are so starved for representation we will raise up anything that throws us a bone. I wish another webtoon with far more interesting themes or plots was adapted. They could do something interesting with Ben's internalized homophobia and probable self-hate but I can't imagine this show actually giving more minor characters like him significant depth. Another thing I'd like to tack on here is that it feels like a lot of shows that have representation for lgbt+ people are not made for lgbt+ people. Most mainstream representation is like either fetishization, performative, or woefully misinformed. There is still plenty of great stuff, but for mainstream romance shows I can't name one. For ones that are focused on other stuff but have a romance side-plot running with it like The Owl House it goes great, just 2 regular people in love who happen to both be girls. For these shows it feels like they lean into the characters being gay a lot more, like it's a core character trait. It's not, natural hair colour isn't a character trait, neither is eye colour, skin colour, or any other uncontrollable trait. Think about it, what arc has really happened in Heartstopper that wouldn't have happened if this show had no queer characters? I can't think of one.
Sorry for the huge paragraph I've just been thinking about this for months.
What you said here makes sense! As for the TV series vs the comic, I've created a few comics series, plus a few animations/films, and here is my take:
Honestly the book series is one of the sweetest and most heartwarming comics I've read, and I read a lot of indie comics haha. The style is unique and loose instead of polished and maximal, plus the pacing is sweet. There are TONS of romance series out there, but many of them force drama and are abrasive. However, for me, the Heartstopper books (at least the first one) are more gentle, but still pack a bunch of emotion, so they feel like a breath of fresh air.
As for the television series, I was disappointed. I stopped after just one episode because of the direction - they seemed to copy DIRECTLY from the comics, instead of respecting that TV and comics are two completely different mediums. The pacing felt off, the characters fell flat, etc. There's this old saying "the medium is the message" which basically means that the same story will feel completely different when presented in different mediums (aka what's subtle on paper comes off as watered-down on the screen). Overall, it seems the Heartstopper production team didn't make bold enough choices for the series to stand out.
Maybe it's because in comics you can read at your own pace, maybe it's the occasional little smiley in a speech bubble, but to me the comic version has more life. Or perhaps the tropes read differently because of how earnest and heart-on-your-sleeve the comic is. If you haven't read the comic, you can read it on Webtoon (hopefully they haven't put it behind a paywall yet) but reading the series as a physical book is far more immersive. And if you still don't like the series, I totally get it 😅
I am also sorry for dropping this essay; I've also thought about this for months 😩
yes, yes and yes to this. I feel like this very accurately displayed how I feel about heartstopper. tbh im kind of starting to just use it more as inspiration to try and make something out of its failures.
AND IM GLAD YOU MENTIONED BEN. I read a bunch of heartstopper meta on him and it made me feel so mad for how little the show seemed to care for him.
@@samconcklin I don't really intend to read the comic, if it is as you say and the themes and plots are the same I don't see much of a point. I like big overarching plots that build up which Heartstopper doesn't have, I also much prefer things that stand out more. Some stuff like Cherry Crush with all of it's tension and emotional moments. Castle Swimmer with its mystery and unique setting. I could go on, I think a large part of me is mad Heartstopper got this amazing chance to become a real show when there are at least in my opinion other webtoons that would take to the medium better. I think that the show being the same as the webtoon isn't as much of an issue, the thought process is probably that it can get more people into the book and they are put off by the change. Changing the plot can risk ruining it completely, a lot of people like the One Piece live action, but to me it just kind of takes away from so many key moments One Piece had in the East Blue saga. Though One Piece's LA has the issue of covering an absurd amount of ground in a much shorter amount of time. Though I guess if the plot was the same, I wouldn't watch it since I've never even bothered rewatching the real East Blue saga. Though my issues mainly lie with how they did some scenes, gave characters lines they didn't have, changed settings, changed how Syrup Village was for Usopp.
Sorry for rambling.
@@artistic.unreliably I haven't really seen much discussion around him when to me he has the opportunity of becoming one of the most complex characters. Though I also haven't seen many people talk about Heartstopper.
Nice video but in the future you may want to turn the background music down, it's too distracting
Damn it, I knew it was probably too loud. Thanks sm lol
I think my biggest… annoyance with how his character was handled was the dissonance(?) with the rest of the show’s tone. Although Heartstopper /does/ have serious and sad etc moments, what I really liked about it was how lighthearted and happy it ultimately was.
Yes there is some struggling over figuring out your sexuality, coming out, etc. but ultimately it’s a happiness fantasy where things more or less work out forever everyone and the worst doesn’t happen, no one is (from a show writing if not literally canonical point of view) ostracized or criticized for their identity: Even when Darcy is kicked out, there isn’t a fear that she’ll be living on the streets or that she (or anyone else) will be a victim of “gay panic”*, because the show is framed as lighthearted and happy, and that would be a huge escalation consequences not in line with the show’s plot, so even its lowest lows always /narratively/ feel like they will resolve (and thus far: always have been resolved).
but Isaac’s arc felt like the realization of common aroase fear of ~being an outcast in a society that emphasizes the importance of romantic/sexual relationships~ (or, at least it’s a fear that both me and my friend (both aro ase) have expressed, and that I’ve seen mutuals on tumblr (who are aro/ase/aro ase) express). Like, not only is Isaac miserable in cannon (upsetting and annoying for rep, because I want all the aro-ases to be happy), but from the way the show was framed (including his talk with art fair dude), it seems like Isaac /is/ doomed to not have even /friends/ because of the ~insurmountable~ difference of… dating choices /s, and that aro ase-ness is inherent both lonely and incompatible with our society, even an idealized fantasy shiny happy version on our society (where Heartstopper takes place).
*”gay panic” as in: (the legal defence for) attacking a gay (queer) person because a queer person was existing, which is panic inducing enough that attacking them was clearly self defence. NOT “gay panic” as in: a queer person being too gay to function
TL:DR Isaac is given a story line way more depressing that the normally low stakes (narratively, if not canonically) character arcs and self discoveries of other Heartstopper characters.
Also, just not personally relatable, which is clearly the biggest sin :/
I don't know the show, but I sm somewhere on the aroace spectrum and I hate how it is often portrait, like somewhere (I don't know where exactly) there was an aspec character, who just hated other people for being intressted in sex or only had short-lasting romantic relationships.
I think the reason he was abandoned is coz he was kinda shoehorned into the story to replace aled
I also do agree with the criticisms of the character but that could aid to the reason
I feel like it would have been MORE realistic- not that Isaac’s story arc is not realistic, but it would have been more likely to reach the target audience- if he just slowly over time realised that romance and sex was something he wasn’t interested in. Like I feel that as a aroace student everything else just kind of takes up your focus and you kind of forget romance is there until you get towards a mature age and its plausible for people your age. It would have been nice to see him wanting to be able to feel that way, while also being happy and grateful for the way things are currently, and not having any of his relationships progress to a romantic point because he’s comfortable with the way things are. As an aroace, intimate relationships sound nice but I’m way too apprehensive to attempt one because idk what it feels like so I might end up hurting the other person somehow?
We did not get more in season 3…
I agree about the books, like, why the would he read his books on the darkness???
WHATS YOUR OPINION ON AROACE PERIDOT?- STEVEN UNIVERSE??? ALSO I AGREE W YOUR OPINION, HES SUCH WN UNDERUSED CHARACTER WITH HARDPY ANY PLOT
I have to look more into in peridot cuz I wasn’t a stable Steven universe watcher. From my perspective so far, I like peridot but I’m not that super knowledgeable about her character/plot.
OhHH I SEE!! STEVEN UNIVERSE HAS SO MUCH LGBT+ CHARACTERS WITH BARELY MENTIONING IT IN THE SHOW!!@@bmudangel
Okay off topic but you’re pretty
Also as a aroace I can understand what you mean
This is how i see it: he's represented. That's a good start. A series/movie can only focus on a few characters at once because the story gets dragged along the more characters you introduce. Of course there won't be a lot of aroace characters in media yet. The giant plethora of identities have only really surfaced within the last 10-15 years, which is a very small length of time. You have to give creators a chance to learn and develop. I don't know how old you are, but I'm assuming you're quite young. If so, you have no clue how amazing it is just to have a queer character in the media. At all. The fact that there's an aroace person AT ALL in ANY type of mainstream media is a giant leap forward. Trust me, things can only get better from here. Feel lucky that you got to grow up with positive queer representation. I didn't get to have that till i was 16. Before then, seeing a gay character was very rare.
So yeah, Isaac is there, hun. Just because he's not explored to the extent you personally would like doesn't mean he's been forgotten. As you stated, Alice is aroace, so she probably loves Isaac more than any of you. But her series revolves around the select relationships. Writing in a subplot for one of the side-main characters is risky from a business standpoint. Fans watch the series for the main characters. Viewership might go down if they deviate. Lower viewership means less income. Less income means less chances to greenlight new seasons. Which means no more live action Isaac, period. Would you like Isaac there or not at all?
The fact that series is very popular is a testament to how good the writing is. Be thankful there is a very dedicated, passionate team behind Heartstoppers. It could've easily been a throwaway series with little thought or substance. But you said it yourself, you love the series, despite it not going the way you'd like to with one character.
I'm non-binary and i rarely see characters with that identity, especially my own age. Raine from TOH is the closest i have to an older enby and I'm perfectly happy with that. Any positive representation is a good thing. Take what you can, kids. When you get older, create, create, create. Make tons more mainstream queer representation. Saturate the market with it. Be the change you want to see. Alice did it. Lots of other queer people are. Join them. :) 🌈
the show should have just had aled in the show instead of adding a new character
4:58 i mean thats pretty much me lmao
Nobody can write for aro aces, no romance or struggle.
Like why can’t aroace characters be written without a romance plot and isn’t just the typical “im so lonely“ stereotypical idea of aroace ppl.
Me neither
There's one writer Alice Oseman
Well it’s a Netflix show so she gets more help writing it. Netflix wouldn’t give her that much creative freedom
@@bmudangel no there is ONE WRITER and she also is aro/ace learn how not to be a toxic unaware person who just POSTS
I’m sorry, i don’t mean to come off that way. I know Alice is aroace and i do try to do a bit of research for my videos. I was just confused cuz when I look up writers for the heartstopper show. It shows a couple people. But ik Lauren is the story consultant for like 8 eps. They aren’t exactly the writer of the show but they kinda watch over what Alice writes for the script ig. And Alice wasn’t the director of the show and directors kinda have a huge say in how the show goes. So Alice is not alone in the process of heartstopper show. That’s more of what I meant.
So disappointing!