9:48 FYI, it's not just afab people that get under-diagnosed. As a trans girl who started transitioning recently, I too was completely overlooked as an autistic person until as of recently, even though I've seen multiple psychiatrists my whole life. My symptoms are much more akin to those typically described in cis girls (even though I believe those assessments to be too obsessed with gender binary fundamentalism, but that's another issue). Narrowing it down to afab people ends up hurting a lot of amab people, especially trans folk.
You are so right! I should have talked about this! It’s actually discussed a lot in the book Unmasking Autism which I really enjoyed. I’m going to try to pin your comment so others hopefully see it :)
@@mandiweirdmore Thank you for hearing me and highlighting my comment, that makes me happy. And thanks for the book recommendation, I'll check it out :)
Also keep in mind that different psychologists can differently diagnose people or see something others don't. Like how I have constantly brought up my skin/scalp picking with several different ones and only my most recent one is like "that's a type of OCD. you need to talk about it and get some meds to help with that." and now I am finally feeling better and able to understand why I pick versus just being told "it's probably part of your ADD/PTSD/disassociation/need to pick to ignore chronic pain",etc.
For starters, you need to be seeing a psychologist. Psychiatrists typically focus on the medical aspects of things, and they're less likely to diagnose you. Secondly, you should also start considering the possibility that you might NOT be autistic. I'm not saying you aren't, but if *multiple psychiatrists over the span of your lifetime* have said you're not autistic, then you probably aren't. Or, you probably are and you've just had bad luck. But you have to understand that you *probably aren't* autistic. Without a diagnosis, and with so many "no's," you can't be too sure what the answer is other than the one you've already been given. Sometimes people just aren't autistic and that's okay.
@@NoOneReallySpecial dude "probably part of your diagnosis"? No, that's not how you do good medicine. You confirm that it is part of that diagnosis and not some other diagnosis that is going untreated.
If you're not seen as conventionally attractive as a women, like none of this applies, they're just seen as weird. But if you're attractive, pixie dream girl. Because yeah for the wider society, there's this unspoken rule that "autistic people can't be attractive". It's odd because WE know it's not true, yet people subconsciously think this all the time.
It's odd because- while I don't think this is true, mind you- some of the early research into autism (I think by either Hans Asperger or Leo Kanner, but I can't find the quote now) went on a bit about how autistic children are cuter than average, albeit in a slightly unconventional way. I think this was in actuality due to autistic children being distinguished as better than children with intellectual disabilities, who were not expected to be cute. I suspect there may have been a bias with cuter kids being more likely to be labeled as possibly autistic rather than invalid/r*tarded. So it's doubly interesting that this has flipped now, I guess.
This is honestly so true. I’m an autistic masculine lesbian and most people do Not see me as cool and quirky. Hell, in high school people spread bullshit rumors about me planning a mass shooting (I hadn’t ever fired a gun and still haven’t). I also have like spins that are outside of the “accepted cool girl interests” and many but not all of them are more typical to “male pattern autism”- like the fact that I’m a Civil War buff.
I see masc lesbian women as somw of the most beautiful human beings, perfect example of the complexity of gender, &sexuality. I feel there has been some stereotypes that "autistic" manic pixie dream girls those stereotypes being that they are all dainty yet strong, beautiful yet unusual, romanticism of mental illnesses, and also all these attributes go against eachother. Its kind of an imaginary woman some men/men/LGBT community included, have made up in their head a certain kind of person who is broken yet perfect and unapologetically themselves but also very insecure and shy. It's true to be all.these things at once but seeing some more deeper analysis of autistic women in media would be great to see. Instead of the constant slightly quirky super beatiful white girls representing every autistic/mental disabilities/soul searchers and honest people. If u know you know but being yourself is a lot harder in the real world of relationships, friendships, family, and romantic partners. I feel like im never really understood. Even sometimes I feel like im not seen seriously though I have learning disabilities, diagnosed, and medicated, been through the other mental problems that are related to autism and bipoalr like eating disorder ,self harm,and even self medication. Another thing people don't look at are learning disabled , autistic, or other processing disabilities are seen as niave people who couldn't have co.olex emotions like depression and suicidal ideation. And addiction . Yes I know.people and I myself and recovering. I feel very alone but I just know there others who feel the same.
I dated women always being the androgynous and also girly at the same time with my up and down manic episodes , but my balance is a masc woman It just feels like a good balance where we complement eachother. But that doesn't mean anything really just personal opinions. U can be 2 lipstick lesbians or 2 masc lesbians ect... I just think humans are beautiful especially the ones people try to force themselves to accept. I always been an outcast so the whole conventionally pretty thing never helped me😅
@psychedlicsouljam1995 definitely true. There's nothing wrong with being a tomboy or masculine presenting lesbian. I grew up as a "tomboy" and even now I still have many personality traits that are stereotypically boyish. Conventional beauty standards are just that: stereotypes.
I feel like the one GOOD representation of the MPG was Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. Clementine was quirky and whimsical, but when you peel back her layers, you found a deeply broken and flawed individual.
Yes! She's the first character I remember who *explicitly opposes* the concept of an MPDG She says to Joel "Too many guys think I'm a concept. I'm going to complete them. Or I'm going to make them alive. I'm just a fucked up girl who's looking for my own peace of mind."
What I hate is that she’s always portrayed as “weird” but it’s only ever seen as a positive thing if she’s sexualized. It’s like she can’t win. She’s hated, even when she’s being loved. 💔
this makes sm sense tho bc as a autistic, i have also related to the mpdg characters, but never understood why ppl made fun of that kind of girl, so i'd often dull my opinions and character to not get called one, feels like being called a pick-me or a 'poser', always sucks tho bc its when i finally start acting genuine. sometimes it feels like girls can't exist with any kind of personality, and that makes me sad.
Like make up? Trying too hard. Don't like make up? Get called a slop. Like sports? You just fake it. Don't like sports? Get called vain (when pretty), lazy (when ugly), a bore. Yeah, there is no winning.
@@MissMoontree Exactly this. It's why I gravitated towards the "weird/loser" kids (not my words just what society called the unique/different/disabled kids in my school) because we all kinda supported each other and realized that the world is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation so you may as well enjoy life and love yourself and others and what you like because society is just jealous of people who are happy/enjoy life. Once I started living by that philosophy, I enjoyed life more. Granted I couldn't get rid of my PTSD from bullying or things like my Anorexia from being bullied, but I could take everything one step at a time and slowly become the happy;healthy person I was meant to. My friend's group may be small but it's full of quality people.
I have always understood and connected to the manic pixie dream girl, not because shes not like other girls, but because her traits are seen as only meant to be for a man. I have always found that my actions that are just me being an autistic person are seen as manic pixie dream girl as men. It has made me very uncomfortable, because I am just being myself
There's all sorts of wonderful compression clothing, from shirts to sleeves to shorts to pants to socks to full body suits, etc. I have a wide variety to help with my chronic pain.
I don't know how this showed up in my feed, but I fit the description. I'm 60 now, but I just had my mind blown! That's one thing the boys used to say to me...I like you because you're different from the other girls. And I was...just by being me.
I'm in the middle of writing a YA book with an autistic teen girl as the main character and I have worried so much that I'm making her a mpdg or a pick me. But she's basically just me with a better love life. 😂This was a lovely video! Subscribed!
I mean by being the main character it's pretty tough for her to be a mpdg unless you're writing the whole thing from other perspectives. Being a pick-me is a little bit tougher, but it's good that you're aware of it as the author. If it works in the setting you could have someone accuse her (or someone else) of being a pick-me, and have her worry about it. [My sarcastic internal comeback would be that if I'm a pick me then I must be doing it wrong since I'm much better at getting picked on than I am at getting picked.] Edit: really glad you're writing a YA book like this. Keep it up!
This video is rlly good and informative, and really high quality, and I really agree how most of the time the “manic pixie dream girl” has so many autistic symptoms
This makes sense to me, cuz all my life I've always been drawn to MPDG characters as girls I wanna be like. Turns out, as an adult, I'm learning I'm almost certainly autistic... and I grew up to be a MPDG. Colorful hair, bright and fun colored outfits, very passionate about things, genuine with people, etc. While they were a dream girl to boys wanting someone quirky, they were a role model for me
I have such a hard time with this trope personally. When I watched movies like this I so identified with the character and it felt really good because I felt so different and alone. And then I learned it was called manic pixie dream girl and I was like cool now I finally know what kind of person I am. And then a little later I heard manic pixie dream girl was a bad thing but didn't understand why it was bad so I internalized it as I am bad and weird and stupid. So I tried to hide it for years and years. It was only recently that I understood that people said it was bad because of the way the character was being used and not that the traits were bad. Now I don't even know how to be myself anymore because I've spent so long trying to be someone else.
What you gotta learn is that society doesn't matter. Once you care about yourself and your happiness and get away from being worried about what society thinks, things will get a lot better. I reduced my friend group and decided to associate with people who saw me as a person and didn't leave me alone when the going got tough. My real friends stayed when others left me for needing surgery or going to college, etc. So like what you like. Wear what you want. Hang out with whomever you want. Do whatever and don't pay society any mind. I'm overcoming my PTSD from bullying and learning body neutrality and have never been happier in my 34 years of life.
Tbh, it is more vaguely neuro divergent in a non specific way. She usually outgoing, has no issue making friends or having eye contact. Liking specific niche things isn't really an autism only thing. Many people have them. The thing is more you have the introvert boy and an outgoing, pretty, quirky girl that is full of energy and somehow knows his favorite band. She could have ADHD, OCD, be bipolar (in a manic episode) or anything else too. Wearing bright colors and band tees was just in fashion in the zero's among teens, so that is why she is dressed like that.
This exactly. As far as I know, I am not autistic but I had ADD and have been told I am on the spectrum and I wear band tees and bright/crazy or even dull but fun clothes and am always assumed to "be on drugs" cause of my hyper personality. I have just always been like this. I have mental illnesses and a lot of disabilities but my sunshiney personality has just been there from the beginning. I am a "weirdo" who associated and fit in with people like me who were or weren't similar in terms of mental diagnosises but all of us exhibited similarities in that it was just part of who we were.
Informative video. I didn’t know the bit about the originator of the phrase being subsequently diagnosed. Just as an FYI, I would suggest not citing the Organization for Autism Research in future videos. They’re an ABA-promoting front (several of their board members are ABA practitioners). Unfortunately, Google is quick to bring up toxic savior orgs like them in search results related to anything Autistic.
something that sticks out to my mind to this day is being told by the teacher of a modern dance class I took for one semester in college that I "marched to the beat of my own drum," as apparently an explanation for why I wasn't keeping up with the class or something? I never quite understood it, but it rubbed me wrong because even though the teacher maybe meant it as a comfort, I didn't like the insinuation that I was weird/different. I was brutally bullied my entire chilldhood for being "weird" and annoying, and I learned a long time ago that it's better to be friendless than have bad friends (though of course having friends who AREN'T shitheads would be the ideal).
I'm a trans man who internalized a lot of misogyny around ideas regarding your existence only being for a man. I was totally a MPDG for most of my life. More than 2/3s of my life was being an unapproachable weird girl because I was autistic. It would be sincerely interesting if we had media showing what the MPDG does in her life, her being weird and having fun for herself.
YEAH! OKAY! im going to share a couple messages i sent a friend a while back regarding this topic: "i was trying to figure out the mpdg bc i never really researched why its such a bad character type. and then i was trying to formulate a character that fits the mpdg type but is completely divorced from the sexist elements of it. so totally removing the romance aspect, or maybe even youd expect her to be the typical romantic interest but she actually has a history of trying and failing at romance because people are attracted to her for how fun she is but once they get to know her they find out they just wanted a normal person actually and after a while i was like wait a minute. im just describing myself here lmfao like oh shes not weird and different for no reason, and shes not just philosophical and deep to be cute, this stuff has to come from her history, and that could add depth to the mysterious and detached ennui element of the character as in like this detachment is just a wall she puts up bc she finds the average person cant always relate to her when she talks about herself" for some reason, (grew up afab) i always found myself relating to the mpdg, and because of that i think the problematic elements of the trope flew over my head until i decided to actually google why people don't like it 😂 and as soon as i did i used the relatability to try to formulate a version of the trope with more depth and honesty. anyway, great video! glad i'm not the only one who's noticed this
Okay, but like, this tho. I'm autistic, and I remember back before I realized I was a dude that a lot of guys would treat me like a novelty when I wanted a serious relationship, but when the novelty wore off and they realized I was a whole-ass human person they either got bored or scared off. Even guys who I thought matched my weirdness. Glad I'm with someone now who matches my weirdness AND recognizes me as a whole person.
Why is Ramona Flowers considered a manic pixie dream girl? She has the aesthetic and one dimentionality, sure, but she isn't this energetic creature that teaches Scott to "live, not just survive!" or any of these things. Imo she's just a poorly-written character, but there's nothing manic pixie about her...
I mean, she does teach him that. It’s show not tell - she is someone who has existed in a lot of zones, many outside of Scott’s comfort, and she goes against the grain - that encourages Scott to “live a little”.
I haven't seen most of these movies. But from the clips here, it's my impression that the protagonists in these movies is also on spectrum. It's not pointed out. As the protagonist, we're supposed to sympathize with him, so we don't think of them as autistic. But looking at how the other people around him act towards him, he's not popular. He's got at least one bully. We don't get to see his meltdowns either. Of course, not all of us have them, and some of us are blessed with enough disassociation to be able to put them off until we're alone. I think it's a certain amount of the people who make these movies are recognizing that there are more of us than anybody realizes. Most of us mask well enough that people don't notice. Frequently, the things the people who mask heaviest do to mask are harmful to people who don't mask so well, as they specifically target them to appear separate from them. Of course, yes, I am extrapolating somewhat from an example of one. My bully in middle school showed a lot of autistic traits. But he was bigger and stronger than just about everybody else in the grade and was especially quick to go after anyone who commented on his quirks. I absolutely didn't see it at the time. It was the 1980s and all I knew about autism was it was apparently a learning disorder that they started doing tests for on fourth graders when I was in the fifth grade. But I'm not entirely extrapolating from an example of one. It's common enough there's even a trope about the "normal" bully who's redeemed from the other bullies. Like in Revenge of the Nerds, where they recruit Ogre to their fraternity and he becomes one of them in more or less all ways.
This might be the autism in me... but is it just me or do people continually use the incorrect use of "cue" when referring to (nonverbal) social pick-ups? A "queue" is a fancy way of saying "line", a "cue" is a signal. They're "social cues", not "social queues".
Nathan's list is the only time I've seen that specific one, but misuse of homophones is definitely extremely common, not just in online spaces but even in published ebooks. Don't know if they pop more for autistic people, but as an editor/proofreader these sorts of typos leap out at me from everywhere... 🤪 I even see instances where non-homophones get incorrectly used, because people don't know how they're pronounced? "Rouge" for "rogue" is a classic example & absolutely rampant in D&D spaces.
I am autistic but I skew dark and I'm a little grumpy. Very into horror and true crime. However, I do dress differently from others because it's my sense of style. I'm like Wednesday Addams on the inside, her werewolf roommate on the outside. Is that manic pixie dream girl?
Wednesday Addams isn’t manic pixie because her story has nothing to do with a man. Though a lot of autistic people relate to Wednesday Addams because they struggle to express their emotions. I’m kind of the opposite end where I’m exploding with emotions way to often and can’t hold it in
ooOh I'm always in the mood for a horror movie, I'm obsessed with them. And I consume quite a bit of true crime. Am also sort of like Wednesday with the flat affect, not very charismatic, facial expressions are lacking, etc. Although I relate to the MPDG, I don't think I'm quite like one.
My most favorite movie/book with an autistic protagonist is "Fräulein Smillas Gespür für Schnee", Smilla's Sense of Snow. It is not promoted as a film with autism, but just because it doesn't show up on any list ever, it's definitely my favorite. And it's also the kind of women I feel a connection to. You might want to take a look into that or even talk about it?
i loved your video but I think the background music is too loud... Not hating, just saying because your voice is pretty soft (love it) and it can be overpowered by the background music
As I watched this, I realized what I think the difference is between the MPDG and a "regular autistic girl"...it's not even physical attractiveness, because plenty of autistic girls have "pretty privilege" (Of Herbs and Altars did a good video about this th-cam.com/video/qOIrQ1m8p7o/w-d-xo.html ). It's about not letting yourself react to being bullied for "being different." If any of these MPDGs were actually self-conscious and socially withdrawn from everyone (including the male protagonist), then they'd lose their lustre immediately. It's the patriarchal view that "she's a diamond in the rough that only glimmers once I, the man, discover her."
Yeah, I mean, i think so, basically. If I were to add something, I'd say that (in my opinion) mpdg is not only autistic coded, but also, with respect to the mmc, eggy transfem autistic coded. Eternal sunshine and Scott pilgrim, for example, I would say the mmc is pre-transition transfem coded whereby the mpdg serves as their "ideal woman" foil (but it's actually just their idealized self foil). The messiness and sexist tonality attached to mpdg (if there is said to be any) would stem from this (the messiness of being an eggy transfem person). in my interpretation, the figure is an idealized projection and thus the injurious elements of being woman or being autistic are cloistered away.
I liked the video! It was an interesting discussion that I haven't about before. I just have one nitpick: sometimes the background music was a little loud, when trying to hear what you and others were saying. I liked the music choice, and it's not that I want to make you ovethink volume, but just as a hopefully constructive criticism.
Hi Mandi. Nice video. Would you classify Sara Deever (Sweet November, 2001. Charlize Theron opposite Keanu Reeves) a Manic Pixie Dream Girl? "A workaholic executive, and an unconventional woman agree to a personal relationship for a short period. In this short period she changes his life." She doesn't appear to be on 'the spectrum'. She has a different and very specific back story to explain her 'unconventionality' and her changing his life.
Just because the MPDG shares characteristics with autistics (and if the character was real they would probably have autism), doesn't mean the fictional characters have autism. Fictional media doesn't have to follow the rules of real life, and I doubt even a single popular MPDG character was intended to have autism in the final script. The deficits autism causes would likely make the character far less charming to the male, and as you said the purpose of these characters in these stories is to help the male grow by inspiring him with their whimsy. You're offended for no good reason when it comes to this trope.
yes but please don't intermix saying afab and women at the same time, those are different things :( i like your point though, one of my autistic friends literally had the thing people seeing him as like a manic pixie dream girl when dating...
Is Sam from "The perks of being a wallflower" really a MPDG? She is pretty mature and used to be popular in school but rejected the fame of being a "blow queen" and doing stuff that she likes with people she likes instead. She got into the friend group via Patrick. She is very well socialized. And for the most part of the story Charlie has to try to get over his crush on her.
9:48 FYI, it's not just afab people that get under-diagnosed. As a trans girl who started transitioning recently, I too was completely overlooked as an autistic person until as of recently, even though I've seen multiple psychiatrists my whole life. My symptoms are much more akin to those typically described in cis girls (even though I believe those assessments to be too obsessed with gender binary fundamentalism, but that's another issue).
Narrowing it down to afab people ends up hurting a lot of amab people, especially trans folk.
You are so right! I should have talked about this! It’s actually discussed a lot in the book Unmasking Autism which I really enjoyed. I’m going to try to pin your comment so others hopefully see it :)
@@mandiweirdmore Thank you for hearing me and highlighting my comment, that makes me happy. And thanks for the book recommendation, I'll check it out :)
Also keep in mind that different psychologists can differently diagnose people or see something others don't. Like how I have constantly brought up my skin/scalp picking with several different ones and only my most recent one is like "that's a type of OCD. you need to talk about it and get some meds to help with that." and now I am finally feeling better and able to understand why I pick versus just being told "it's probably part of your ADD/PTSD/disassociation/need to pick to ignore chronic pain",etc.
For starters, you need to be seeing a psychologist. Psychiatrists typically focus on the medical aspects of things, and they're less likely to diagnose you. Secondly, you should also start considering the possibility that you might NOT be autistic. I'm not saying you aren't, but if *multiple psychiatrists over the span of your lifetime* have said you're not autistic, then you probably aren't. Or, you probably are and you've just had bad luck. But you have to understand that you *probably aren't* autistic. Without a diagnosis, and with so many "no's," you can't be too sure what the answer is other than the one you've already been given. Sometimes people just aren't autistic and that's okay.
@@NoOneReallySpecial dude "probably part of your diagnosis"? No, that's not how you do good medicine. You confirm that it is part of that diagnosis and not some other diagnosis that is going untreated.
If you're not seen as conventionally attractive as a women, like none of this applies, they're just seen as weird. But if you're attractive, pixie dream girl. Because yeah for the wider society, there's this unspoken rule that "autistic people can't be attractive". It's odd because WE know it's not true, yet people subconsciously think this all the time.
It's odd because- while I don't think this is true, mind you- some of the early research into autism (I think by either Hans Asperger or Leo Kanner, but I can't find the quote now) went on a bit about how autistic children are cuter than average, albeit in a slightly unconventional way.
I think this was in actuality due to autistic children being distinguished as better than children with intellectual disabilities, who were not expected to be cute. I suspect there may have been a bias with cuter kids being more likely to be labeled as possibly autistic rather than invalid/r*tarded.
So it's doubly interesting that this has flipped now, I guess.
This is honestly so true. I’m an autistic masculine lesbian and most people do Not see me as cool and quirky. Hell, in high school people spread bullshit rumors about me planning a mass shooting (I hadn’t ever fired a gun and still haven’t). I also have like spins that are outside of the “accepted cool girl interests” and many but not all of them are more typical to “male pattern autism”- like the fact that I’m a Civil War buff.
I see masc lesbian women as somw of the most beautiful human beings, perfect example of the complexity of gender, &sexuality. I feel there has been some stereotypes that "autistic" manic pixie dream girls those stereotypes being that they are all dainty yet strong, beautiful yet unusual, romanticism of mental illnesses, and also all these attributes go against eachother. Its kind of an imaginary woman some men/men/LGBT community included, have made up in their head a certain kind of person who is broken yet perfect and unapologetically themselves but also very insecure and shy. It's true to be all.these things at once but seeing some more deeper analysis of autistic women in media would be great to see. Instead of the constant slightly quirky super beatiful white girls representing every autistic/mental disabilities/soul searchers and honest people. If u know you know but being yourself is a lot harder in the real world of relationships, friendships, family, and romantic partners. I feel like im never really understood. Even sometimes I feel like im not seen seriously though I have learning disabilities, diagnosed, and medicated, been through the other mental problems that are related to autism and bipoalr like eating disorder ,self harm,and even self medication. Another thing people don't look at are learning disabled , autistic, or other processing disabilities are seen as niave people who couldn't have co.olex emotions like depression and suicidal ideation. And addiction . Yes I know.people and I myself and recovering. I feel very alone but I just know there others who feel the same.
I dated women always being the androgynous and also girly at the same time with my up and down manic episodes , but my balance is a masc woman It just feels like a good balance where we complement eachother. But that doesn't mean anything really just personal opinions. U can be 2 lipstick lesbians or 2 masc lesbians ect... I just think humans are beautiful especially the ones people try to force themselves to accept. I always been an outcast so the whole conventionally pretty thing never helped me😅
@psychedlicsouljam1995 definitely true. There's nothing wrong with being a tomboy or masculine presenting lesbian. I grew up as a "tomboy" and even now I still have many personality traits that are stereotypically boyish. Conventional beauty standards are just that: stereotypes.
I feel like the one GOOD representation of the MPG was Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. Clementine was quirky and whimsical, but when you peel back her layers, you found a deeply broken and flawed individual.
Yes! She's the first character I remember who *explicitly opposes* the concept of an MPDG
She says to Joel "Too many guys think I'm a concept. I'm going to complete them. Or I'm going to make them alive. I'm just a fucked up girl who's looking for my own peace of mind."
What I hate is that she’s always portrayed as “weird” but it’s only ever seen as a positive thing if she’s sexualized. It’s like she can’t win. She’s hated, even when she’s being loved. 💔
this makes sm sense tho bc as a autistic, i have also related to the mpdg characters, but never understood why ppl made fun of that kind of girl, so i'd often dull my opinions and character to not get called one, feels like being called a pick-me or a 'poser', always sucks tho bc its when i finally start acting genuine. sometimes it feels like girls can't exist with any kind of personality, and that makes me sad.
Yeah I get it! I’ve realized society really is gonna put down girls no matter what they do so it’s best to be yourself :)
Like make up? Trying too hard. Don't like make up? Get called a slop.
Like sports? You just fake it. Don't like sports? Get called vain (when pretty), lazy (when ugly), a bore.
Yeah, there is no winning.
@@MissMoontree Exactly this. It's why I gravitated towards the "weird/loser" kids (not my words just what society called the unique/different/disabled kids in my school) because we all kinda supported each other and realized that the world is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation so you may as well enjoy life and love yourself and others and what you like because society is just jealous of people who are happy/enjoy life. Once I started living by that philosophy, I enjoyed life more. Granted I couldn't get rid of my PTSD from bullying or things like my Anorexia from being bullied, but I could take everything one step at a time and slowly become the happy;healthy person I was meant to. My friend's group may be small but it's full of quality people.
I have always understood and connected to the manic pixie dream girl, not because shes not like other girls, but because her traits are seen as only meant to be for a man. I have always found that my actions that are just me being an autistic person are seen as manic pixie dream girl as men. It has made me very uncomfortable, because I am just being myself
wait, COMPRESSION SHIRTS... you're opening my eyes to a new world of fashion possibilities...
There's all sorts of wonderful compression clothing, from shirts to sleeves to shorts to pants to socks to full body suits, etc. I have a wide variety to help with my chronic pain.
I don't know how this showed up in my feed, but I fit the description. I'm 60 now, but I just had my mind blown! That's one thing the boys used to say to me...I like you because you're different from the other girls. And I was...just by being me.
I once went "...wait a minute, I CAN BE THE MPDG". And my sister was like "Yeah, because you're autistic."
I know :)
I'm in the middle of writing a YA book with an autistic teen girl as the main character and I have worried so much that I'm making her a mpdg or a pick me. But she's basically just me with a better love life. 😂This was a lovely video! Subscribed!
Thank you! I wish you luck on your book!!!!
I mean by being the main character it's pretty tough for her to be a mpdg unless you're writing the whole thing from other perspectives.
Being a pick-me is a little bit tougher, but it's good that you're aware of it as the author. If it works in the setting you could have someone accuse her (or someone else) of being a pick-me, and have her worry about it. [My sarcastic internal comeback would be that if I'm a pick me then I must be doing it wrong since I'm much better at getting picked on than I am at getting picked.]
Edit: really glad you're writing a YA book like this. Keep it up!
This video is rlly good and informative, and really high quality, and I really agree how most of the time the “manic pixie dream girl” has so many autistic symptoms
Thank you so much!!
This makes sense to me, cuz all my life I've always been drawn to MPDG characters as girls I wanna be like. Turns out, as an adult, I'm learning I'm almost certainly autistic... and I grew up to be a MPDG. Colorful hair, bright and fun colored outfits, very passionate about things, genuine with people, etc. While they were a dream girl to boys wanting someone quirky, they were a role model for me
My phone has finally listened to my conversations and provided ❤
Literally same lol my partner and I had like a 45 min long convo about why Ramona isn't a MPDG
I have such a hard time with this trope personally. When I watched movies like this I so identified with the character and it felt really good because I felt so different and alone. And then I learned it was called manic pixie dream girl and I was like cool now I finally know what kind of person I am. And then a little later I heard manic pixie dream girl was a bad thing but didn't understand why it was bad so I internalized it as I am bad and weird and stupid. So I tried to hide it for years and years. It was only recently that I understood that people said it was bad because of the way the character was being used and not that the traits were bad. Now I don't even know how to be myself anymore because I've spent so long trying to be someone else.
I understand that feeling a lot! I highly recommend reading the book Unmasking Autism. It gives strategies on how to stop masking who you arw
What you gotta learn is that society doesn't matter. Once you care about yourself and your happiness and get away from being worried about what society thinks, things will get a lot better. I reduced my friend group and decided to associate with people who saw me as a person and didn't leave me alone when the going got tough. My real friends stayed when others left me for needing surgery or going to college, etc. So like what you like. Wear what you want. Hang out with whomever you want. Do whatever and don't pay society any mind. I'm overcoming my PTSD from bullying and learning body neutrality and have never been happier in my 34 years of life.
Tbh, it is more vaguely neuro divergent in a non specific way. She usually outgoing, has no issue making friends or having eye contact.
Liking specific niche things isn't really an autism only thing. Many people have them. The thing is more you have the introvert boy and an outgoing, pretty, quirky girl that is full of energy and somehow knows his favorite band. She could have ADHD, OCD, be bipolar (in a manic episode) or anything else too.
Wearing bright colors and band tees was just in fashion in the zero's among teens, so that is why she is dressed like that.
This exactly. As far as I know, I am not autistic but I had ADD and have been told I am on the spectrum and I wear band tees and bright/crazy or even dull but fun clothes and am always assumed to "be on drugs" cause of my hyper personality. I have just always been like this. I have mental illnesses and a lot of disabilities but my sunshiney personality has just been there from the beginning. I am a "weirdo" who associated and fit in with people like me who were or weren't similar in terms of mental diagnosises but all of us exhibited similarities in that it was just part of who we were.
Informative video. I didn’t know the bit about the originator of the phrase being subsequently diagnosed.
Just as an FYI, I would suggest not citing the Organization for Autism Research in future videos. They’re an ABA-promoting front (several of their board members are ABA practitioners). Unfortunately, Google is quick to bring up toxic savior orgs like them in search results related to anything Autistic.
Oh thank you I didn’t know they supported ABA! I am very against that
something that sticks out to my mind to this day is being told by the teacher of a modern dance class I took for one semester in college that I "marched to the beat of my own drum," as apparently an explanation for why I wasn't keeping up with the class or something? I never quite understood it, but it rubbed me wrong because even though the teacher maybe meant it as a comfort, I didn't like the insinuation that I was weird/different. I was brutally bullied my entire chilldhood for being "weird" and annoying, and I learned a long time ago that it's better to be friendless than have bad friends (though of course having friends who AREN'T shitheads would be the ideal).
I'm a trans man who internalized a lot of misogyny around ideas regarding your existence only being for a man. I was totally a MPDG for most of my life. More than 2/3s of my life was being an unapproachable weird girl because I was autistic. It would be sincerely interesting if we had media showing what the MPDG does in her life, her being weird and having fun for herself.
There’s a good movie like this! It’s called Dinner in America on Hulu. It came out in 2020 so it didn’t really get much coverage.
YEAH! OKAY! im going to share a couple messages i sent a friend a while back regarding this topic:
"i was trying to figure out the mpdg bc i never really researched why its such a bad character type. and then i was trying to formulate a character that fits the mpdg type but is completely divorced from the sexist elements of it. so totally removing the romance aspect, or maybe even youd expect her to be the typical romantic interest but she actually has a history of trying and failing at romance because people are attracted to her for how fun she is but once they get to know her they find out they just wanted a normal person actually and after a while i was like wait a minute. im just describing myself here lmfao
like oh shes not weird and different for no reason, and shes not just philosophical and deep to be cute, this stuff has to come from her history, and that could add depth to the mysterious and detached ennui element of the character as in like this detachment is just a wall she puts up bc she finds the average person cant always relate to her when she talks about herself"
for some reason, (grew up afab) i always found myself relating to the mpdg, and because of that i think the problematic elements of the trope flew over my head until i decided to actually google why people don't like it 😂 and as soon as i did i used the relatability to try to formulate a version of the trope with more depth and honesty. anyway, great video! glad i'm not the only one who's noticed this
Okay, but like, this tho. I'm autistic, and I remember back before I realized I was a dude that a lot of guys would treat me like a novelty when I wanted a serious relationship, but when the novelty wore off and they realized I was a whole-ass human person they either got bored or scared off. Even guys who I thought matched my weirdness. Glad I'm with someone now who matches my weirdness AND recognizes me as a whole person.
this was such a good video. as an afab autistic person who rarely feels connected to media, THANK YOU for talking about this trope
Why is Ramona Flowers considered a manic pixie dream girl? She has the aesthetic and one dimentionality, sure, but she isn't this energetic creature that teaches Scott to "live, not just survive!" or any of these things. Imo she's just a poorly-written character, but there's nothing manic pixie about her...
She's way better, more real and flawed like scott in the original comics. I recommend reading them.
Tbh if anything I would consider Ramona flowers in the movie to be more of the "cool girl" trope
I mean, she does teach him that. It’s show not tell - she is someone who has existed in a lot of zones, many outside of Scott’s comfort, and she goes against the grain - that encourages Scott to “live a little”.
@Nona_1989 hmm, I never really thought of it this way, but I guess it's up to interpretation.
@jonathana.1802 yea I should do that. But here I'm talking about the movie version since that's what most people (including me) are more familiar with
I haven't seen most of these movies. But from the clips here, it's my impression that the protagonists in these movies is also on spectrum. It's not pointed out. As the protagonist, we're supposed to sympathize with him, so we don't think of them as autistic. But looking at how the other people around him act towards him, he's not popular. He's got at least one bully.
We don't get to see his meltdowns either. Of course, not all of us have them, and some of us are blessed with enough disassociation to be able to put them off until we're alone.
I think it's a certain amount of the people who make these movies are recognizing that there are more of us than anybody realizes. Most of us mask well enough that people don't notice. Frequently, the things the people who mask heaviest do to mask are harmful to people who don't mask so well, as they specifically target them to appear separate from them.
Of course, yes, I am extrapolating somewhat from an example of one. My bully in middle school showed a lot of autistic traits. But he was bigger and stronger than just about everybody else in the grade and was especially quick to go after anyone who commented on his quirks. I absolutely didn't see it at the time. It was the 1980s and all I knew about autism was it was apparently a learning disorder that they started doing tests for on fourth graders when I was in the fifth grade.
But I'm not entirely extrapolating from an example of one. It's common enough there's even a trope about the "normal" bully who's redeemed from the other bullies. Like in Revenge of the Nerds, where they recruit Ogre to their fraternity and he becomes one of them in more or less all ways.
This might be the autism in me... but is it just me or do people continually use the incorrect use of "cue" when referring to (nonverbal) social pick-ups? A "queue" is a fancy way of saying "line", a "cue" is a signal. They're "social cues", not "social queues".
Nathan's list is the only time I've seen that specific one, but misuse of homophones is definitely extremely common, not just in online spaces but even in published ebooks. Don't know if they pop more for autistic people, but as an editor/proofreader these sorts of typos leap out at me from everywhere... 🤪
I even see instances where non-homophones get incorrectly used, because people don't know how they're pronounced? "Rouge" for "rogue" is a classic example & absolutely rampant in D&D spaces.
This is hitting home but I’m not autistic? now I’m realizing why I liked these movies is representation lol not so much the “oh she’s so cool” factor
it applies a lot to other NDs like bpd, adhd..etc
this is amazing to watch high
lol thank you?
@@mandiweirdmore That is the highest compliment i could give a human being wear that like a badge of honour /gen
@@JammyJams-84 Then I thank you highly for this badge of honor 🫡
I'm autistic. Back before I realized I was a Dude, I had more than one person call me a "manic pixie dream girl" and I fucking hated every part of it.
I am autistic but I skew dark and I'm a little grumpy. Very into horror and true crime. However, I do dress differently from others because it's my sense of style. I'm like Wednesday Addams on the inside, her werewolf roommate on the outside. Is that manic pixie dream girl?
Wednesday Addams isn’t manic pixie because her story has nothing to do with a man. Though a lot of autistic people relate to Wednesday Addams because they struggle to express their emotions. I’m kind of the opposite end where I’m exploding with emotions way to often and can’t hold it in
ooOh I'm always in the mood for a horror movie, I'm obsessed with them. And I consume quite a bit of true crime. Am also sort of like Wednesday with the flat affect, not very charismatic, facial expressions are lacking, etc. Although I relate to the MPDG, I don't think I'm quite like one.
My most favorite movie/book with an autistic protagonist is "Fräulein Smillas Gespür für Schnee", Smilla's Sense of Snow. It is not promoted as a film with autism, but just because it doesn't show up on any list ever, it's definitely my favorite. And it's also the kind of women I feel a connection to. You might want to take a look into that or even talk about it?
Hi, I'm new here, lovely video! And ur like to subscriber ratio is so high! Keep doing what you do, shawty 💯 👌
I just realized if I was pretty I'd fit the trope of the manic pixie dream girl lol. But instead I'm just considered wierd.
i loved your video but I think the background music is too loud... Not hating, just saying because your voice is pretty soft (love it) and it can be overpowered by the background music
As I watched this, I realized what I think the difference is between the MPDG and a "regular autistic girl"...it's not even physical attractiveness, because plenty of autistic girls have "pretty privilege" (Of Herbs and Altars did a good video about this th-cam.com/video/qOIrQ1m8p7o/w-d-xo.html ). It's about not letting yourself react to being bullied for "being different." If any of these MPDGs were actually self-conscious and socially withdrawn from everyone (including the male protagonist), then they'd lose their lustre immediately. It's the patriarchal view that "she's a diamond in the rough that only glimmers once I, the man, discover her."
Yeah, I mean, i think so, basically. If I were to add something, I'd say that (in my opinion) mpdg is not only autistic coded, but also, with respect to the mmc, eggy transfem autistic coded. Eternal sunshine and Scott pilgrim, for example, I would say the mmc is pre-transition transfem coded whereby the mpdg serves as their "ideal woman" foil (but it's actually just their idealized self foil). The messiness and sexist tonality attached to mpdg (if there is said to be any) would stem from this (the messiness of being an eggy transfem person). in my interpretation, the figure is an idealized projection and thus the injurious elements of being woman or being autistic are cloistered away.
such a good video omg
Thank you so much!
Thank you for this because I realized why I attracted a certain type of guy is cause they just see me as their manic pixie dream girl
Hi Mandi,
I like your video
Manic pixie dream AFAB (ND) reporting for duty ✋😔
Surprise, autistic girls are different from neurotypical girls
I liked the video! It was an interesting discussion that I haven't about before. I just have one nitpick: sometimes the background music was a little loud, when trying to hear what you and others were saying. I liked the music choice, and it's not that I want to make you ovethink volume, but just as a hopefully constructive criticism.
Hi Mandi. Nice video.
Would you classify Sara Deever (Sweet November, 2001. Charlize Theron opposite Keanu Reeves) a Manic Pixie Dream Girl?
"A workaholic executive, and an unconventional woman agree to a personal relationship for a short period. In this short period she changes his life." She doesn't appear to be on 'the spectrum'. She has a different and very specific back story to explain her 'unconventionality' and her changing his life.
That man said Kazan and permutations in one statement, is he a fan of Cube?
Can you please enable captions for this video?
I’m sorry I thought they were! I’ll fix it immediately
Should be all set now :)
i thought this was common knowledge./srs
Unfortunately it is not
Just because the MPDG shares characteristics with autistics (and if the character was real they would probably have autism), doesn't mean the fictional characters have autism. Fictional media doesn't have to follow the rules of real life, and I doubt even a single popular MPDG character was intended to have autism in the final script. The deficits autism causes would likely make the character far less charming to the male, and as you said the purpose of these characters in these stories is to help the male grow by inspiring him with their whimsy. You're offended for no good reason when it comes to this trope.
I've been saying this for years. I was so pretty, and I have the so-called low body count because I'm autistic, of course I atrack men.
yes but please don't intermix saying afab and women at the same time, those are different things :( i like your point though, one of my autistic friends literally had the thing people seeing him as like a manic pixie dream girl when dating...
What is the song at the end of the video?
It’s so fun
It’s no copyright music from @ludandschlattsmusicalempor6746
Thanks
Is Sam from "The perks of being a wallflower" really a MPDG? She is pretty mature and used to be popular in school but rejected the fame of being a "blow queen" and doing stuff that she likes with people she likes instead. She got into the friend group via Patrick. She is very well socialized. And for the most part of the story Charlie has to try to get over his crush on her.
Holy shit it's MJ from Spider-Man HC...
soo true!