It would be easier to compare if the sound levels were compensated. The horns were about 7 Db quieter. The louder speaker is usually the one that "sounds better" in an a/b comparison. I preferred the open baffle but would love to hear them in person - very cool setup.
Interesting, but with two completely different drivers there isn't much to tell - the smaller drivers in the back loaded horns are likely far less efficient and the large drivers on the open baffle likely have a rising response which is why they have a lot of detail but not as much bass. Interesting to hear but pretty much what you should expect from a comparison like this.
I really like the open baffle design. I'm really looking into making my own speakers and I like the idea of having the transparent sound of an open baffle speaker system. Though I would also really like to tinker with a back loaded horn system, just to see how much 'depth' I can squeeze out of a small full range driver. I love videos like this. Would be very nice if there were some kind of place where it could be uploaded with high quality audio so we could really tell the difference more clearly. What do you think about Magnepan?
1st one is the best. The feeling you are there with the instrument...The second one is very good, but their is a curtain between the listener and the instrument
If I did open baffle.speakers I would have one 15 or 18 inch woofer or two 12 inch woofers below the full range driver on each baffle. They would have their own 2 channel amplifier along with a baffle compensation circuit to fill in the bass.
Try "float mounting" your back horn speaker drivers with a 1 mm gap between the driver and the speaker hole (with thin washers as spacers). It will get that open sound and (hopefully) won't affect bass in a bad way.
Noting the weak parts of the chain (microphone, YT compression, my laptop speakers), from my end the OB are superior. Open sound, more detail, etc. But there are so many variables it's very difficult to tell. Luvin' the OB speakers tho, inspiring me to make some myself!
Not a fair comparison. The backloaded horns were placed too close to the back wall and not given a chance to "breathe" reflections possible cause some major cancellation at the mic position.
I've always loved the clarity of the open baffle speakers, but they always lack low end. I think with hidden sub these would be the perfect speakers. It's impossible to replicate the lows of a tuned and ported box unless you have giant drivers and that kinda defeat the point. I have 8" open baffle in my studio for their deep and realist sounding mids. As for tweeters, I think along the lines of Bose when it comes to highs... they should be reflected to make them sound more natural.
Thank you for this. I have been contemplating on what to do with a couple of Fostex full range drivers. The open baffle always sound more "open" :) It would be a better comparison if the volume levels are the same. Bare in mind that the driver sizes are very different so the bass coming from the horn is impressive for the little driver. Note that if the open baffle does not have a slot on the floor, the bass will increase significantly.
A matter of taste and perhaps the audio resolution of the video. First seems brighter and harsher. Although more detailed, it could become fatiguing after a while. Also, are they matched in terms of db? I prefer the loaded horn.
Okay, maybe I might be an odd ball but I actually prefer the back loaded horn tbh. It definitely is not as clear, but the back loaded horn is so smooth and silky sounding while the Open Baffle is very sharp and direct. My dream would be the smoothness of the back loaded horn with more clarity.
The open baffle sounds more open and airy, the BLH sounds more boxy. However, the BLH sounds like they have deeper sound stage, while the open baffle is more "in your face".
Wonderful ... especially the OBs! Maybe better than the Stereo Sound / JE Labs version? Dunno -- I'd like to build a pair, actually. Do you have plans by any chance? I'd appreciate it so much ... thanks!
Hey, is that Jordi Savall?? I like the OB better at least on my PC speakers. The back loaded horn sounds a little more refined but the OB has more body and more accurately portrays the viola da gamba IMHO. Nice builds the both!
The back-loaded horn in a video I saw recently is an example of what a proper design may sound like (query, 'Holed Back Loaded Horn speaker Torvi-C08' in TH-cam).
I too, preferred the first one, which I assume is the Open Baffle design. Which driver was used as the LF driver on the first pair. Nice sounds, by the way. :)
Excellent video. I've been wanting to get an idea what these types of speakers sounded like. Open baffle definitely sounds more open and natural. Actually felt like there was a cello 1m away from me at times. Does seem to be missing some low end presence. The horns provide ultra warmth but seem to present a lot of box colouration and resonance which is quite distracting. Are they a closed box design? Any dampening?
i love the OB, of course! Where can I get the plan? How different would it be using FE208EZ, for example? any idea of OB with different drivers ? thank you
Build a properly designed back-loaded horn with the SAME drivers and record a new A/B test. Only then can there be a fair comparison--and perhaps, surprising.
OK, I must be missing something here. The first demo looks to be with a front mounted full range driver. The second demo shows no driver, and I'm wondering if its rear-firing? I do not see anything showing an open baffle design, the first demo could be a sealed unit, a ported unit, or a folded horn firing to the rear. The second demo only shows the tweeter, and an enclosure with no indication to where or how the driver is mounted. What gives? Have I gone quite insane?
no you are not insane, merely unaware. The second Demo; That small tweeter is actually a full range speaker. The stand is actually the "throat" at the beginning of a horn. The large box is divided into sequentially larger passages. This is called a "Folded Back Loaded Horn. it was designed by a Japanese fellow named Ngaoka Tetsuo. Information on this is somewhat hard to find. The first Demo; Its merely a flat board with a driver mounted on it. Google Martin J King open back design for more detailed theory. Both Demos contain a single full range driver. there is a small group of audiophiles that feel that "crossovers" of any sort degrade the performance of speaker drivers. Simplicity is the key, and the amplifier of choice is a SET amp. ( Single Ended Triode ). The 300B Set is considered to be one of the best. Although I do not see one in the video.
@Logical Thinker I understand the intent. However, it is illogical to believe ANY just comparison can be made--even in regards to enclosure design alone--when differences in driver quality and capabilities are so dramatic. One cannot derive a fair comparison of anything when the originating sources are drastically different. Drastically different base sources will always produce drastically different results, effectively nullifying any attempt at comparison. Presenting the two designs in
Why? He doesn't state he is comparing just the OB vs enclosed cabinet concepts. He clearly states he is comparing the cabinets AND different divers. If everyone compared cabinets but weren't allowed to compare different drivers that'd make comparisons of different speakers impossible.
rear firing against a wall... honestly not sure what this video is trying to show.. i can put a speaker in a closet vs a speaker in my living room... wonder
Tiny drivers never sound as real as full sized ones. Small = thinner sound usually. No exception here. But do equalize levels before uploading as the louder system will SEEM to sound better. Perceiving louder as better is an old trick used by audio salesman.
I'm listening to your speakers placed in your room acoustics being recorded by a microphone (of some sort) compressed to 480p and then played over my speakers in my room acoustics. I don't think this is a realistic way to compare ;-/
Same here, but, I can clearly tell the difference between the two - open baffle is very "open" sounding, the horn loaded sounds as if you put a blanket over the open baffles.
You're stuck in a loop & repeating YOUR goal, which isn't the goal of the video maker. "...illogical to believe ANY just comparison can be made--even in regards to enclosure design alone--when differences in driver quality and capabilities are so dramatic" The comparison is of the speaker in it's entirety, not the components that make up a speaker. By using your method we couldn't compare cars because they have different engines, rear/front drive, etc.
please treat your room... the open baffe design is all unwanted reflections all over😅 all i can hear is your room reflecting the music... allmost the same with the horn
It would be easier to compare if the sound levels were compensated. The horns were about 7 Db quieter. The louder speaker is usually the one that "sounds better" in an a/b comparison.
I preferred the open baffle but would love to hear them in person - very cool setup.
Open baffle sounds real. Horn sounds like I'm standing in the hall outside the performance.
Friday night around 8:00PM - open baffle, Saturday morning, first cup of coffee - BL Horn.
Interesting, but with two completely different drivers there isn't much to tell - the smaller drivers in the back loaded horns are likely far less efficient and the large drivers on the open baffle likely have a rising response which is why they have a lot of detail but not as much bass. Interesting to hear but pretty much what you should expect from a comparison like this.
my sound of your sound of the sound of your Back Loaded Horns made me grin.... lovely.
I really like the open baffle design. I'm really looking into making my own speakers and I like the idea of having the transparent sound of an open baffle speaker system. Though I would also really like to tinker with a back loaded horn system, just to see how much 'depth' I can squeeze out of a small full range driver. I love videos like this. Would be very nice if there were some kind of place where it could be uploaded with high quality audio so we could really tell the difference more clearly.
What do you think about Magnepan?
1st one is the best. The feeling you are there with the instrument...The second one is very good, but their is a curtain between the listener and the instrument
If I did open baffle.speakers I would have one 15 or 18 inch woofer or two 12 inch woofers below the full range driver on each baffle. They would have their own 2 channel amplifier along with a baffle compensation circuit to fill in the bass.
Try "float mounting" your back horn speaker drivers with a 1 mm gap between the driver and the speaker hole (with thin washers as spacers). It will get that open sound and (hopefully) won't affect bass in a bad way.
Noting the weak parts of the chain (microphone, YT compression, my laptop speakers), from my end the OB are superior. Open sound, more detail, etc. But there are so many variables it's very difficult to tell. Luvin' the OB speakers tho, inspiring me to make some myself!
I like the first pair very much. Visually striking, and they seem sonically pure. Any build details available?
Not a fair comparison. The backloaded horns were placed too close to the back wall and not given a chance to "breathe" reflections possible cause some major cancellation at the mic position.
I've always loved the clarity of the open baffle speakers, but they always lack low end. I think with hidden sub these would be the perfect speakers. It's impossible to replicate the lows of a tuned and ported box unless you have giant drivers and that kinda defeat the point. I have 8" open baffle in my studio for their deep and realist sounding mids. As for tweeters, I think along the lines of Bose when it comes to highs... they should be reflected to make them sound more natural.
sure Open baffle are more open and natural sounding. If drivers are high Qts more than 0.7 or above, you can get even more bass out from open baffle.
First speakers are excellent.
Thank you for this. I have been contemplating on what to do with a couple of Fostex full range drivers. The open baffle always sound more "open" :)
It would be a better comparison if the volume levels are the same. Bare in mind that the driver sizes are very different so the bass coming from the horn is impressive for the little driver.
Note that if the open baffle does not have a slot on the floor, the bass will increase significantly.
A matter of taste and perhaps the audio resolution of the video. First seems brighter and harsher. Although more detailed, it could become fatiguing after a while. Also, are they matched in terms of db? I prefer the loaded horn.
Okay, maybe I might be an odd ball but I actually prefer the back loaded horn tbh. It definitely is not as clear, but the back loaded horn is so smooth and silky sounding while the Open Baffle is very sharp and direct. My dream would be the smoothness of the back loaded horn with more clarity.
The open baffle sounds more open and airy, the BLH sounds more boxy. However, the BLH sounds like they have deeper sound stage, while the open baffle is more "in your face".
I'd love a set of plans for these as well if at all possible. Sound terrific..
first.... like the "echo-like" sound .... really nice, and open sound :)
What about using the horns for bass and the open baffle for mid and high?
Pour ceux qui aiment les basses qui font poc poc, le bafle plan est le meilleur choix !
Wonderful ... especially the OBs! Maybe better than the Stereo Sound / JE Labs version? Dunno -- I'd like to build a pair, actually. Do you have plans by any chance? I'd appreciate it so much ... thanks!
If I listen to it, I hear a more closed sound on the horn and a quite more open sound in the open baffles.
Treat your room mate there is so much resonance in there :O
Focus on the art and music
スワン型は一般のバックロードと鳴り方が違いますよね。
Hey, is that Jordi Savall?? I like the OB better at least on my PC speakers. The back loaded horn sounds a little more refined but the OB has more body and more accurately portrays the viola da gamba IMHO. Nice builds the both!
So Nice
What shape is the open baffle? Flat, two sided, one sided, box with back removed?
Wow - excellent sound, man!.. :) Congratz -
弦の響きが何ともエエですW
スワンの低域の伸びは口径を考えると驚異的ですね。バランスが良く、開放的な響きもあります。オープンバッフルは非常に開放的ではあるけど、バランスがいま一つ。バッフルの面積不足とユニットのオーバーダンプな性格が原因と思います。スワンはＢＨとして完成度の高いＳＰであるのに対し、このＯＢは失礼ながら試作の域を出ていないように思われ、公平な比較とは言えない気がします。興味深い動画ではありますが。
The back-loaded horn in a video I saw recently is an example of what a proper design may sound like (query, 'Holed Back Loaded Horn speaker Torvi-C08' in TH-cam).
スーパースワン型ですか
初めて聞きますがいいですね
I too, preferred the first one, which I assume is the Open Baffle design. Which driver was used as the LF driver on the first pair. Nice sounds, by the way. :)
Wow sounds really nice, i like the open baffle, was trying to google fe208 super, i think you mean fe208 Sigma??
Very nice ! May I ask what microphone you used to record these beautiful speakers ?
I realize this is J.S. Bach Cello Suites: Suite No. 1 in G Major, BWV. 1007 - I. Prelude, but can you tell me who's performance it is?
Open Baffle is bright
Back Loaded Horn sound sandwiched but the scene is wider
the open baffle runs very well , but the back loaded isn't well designed , a voight pipe is far ahead ,,, ;)
Can you share the design plan of the open baffle one ?? Thanks
Excellent video. I've been wanting to get an idea what these types of speakers sounded like. Open baffle definitely sounds more open and natural. Actually felt like there was a cello 1m away from me at times. Does seem to be missing some low end presence. The horns provide ultra warmth but seem to present a lot of box colouration and resonance which is quite distracting. Are they a closed box design? Any dampening?
song name pls?
Impossible to saw which sounds better.
What are the measurements of the Open Baffles ? Is it a 8" driver ?
I liked the open Baffle.
i love the OB, of course! Where can I get the plan? How different would it be using FE208EZ, for example? any idea of OB with different drivers ? thank you
Open baffle wonderfull superb👌
Which song tune pls
Horn's response feels too slow for me, and the overall sound feels like it's trapped.
I like open baffle one. but I would like bigger baffle more.
Even played through my phone I can hear how superior the open baffle recording is. The horn is very muddy and not realistic in comparison.
Nice
looks funny, i think i like the open baffle more ( but you now, its youtube ;-) )
Build a properly designed back-loaded horn with the SAME drivers and record a new A/B test. Only then can there be a fair comparison--and perhaps, surprising.
OK, I must be missing something here. The first demo looks to be with a front mounted full range driver. The second demo shows no driver, and I'm wondering if its rear-firing? I do not see anything showing an open baffle design, the first demo could be a sealed unit, a ported unit, or a folded horn firing to the rear. The second demo only shows the tweeter, and an enclosure with no indication to where or how the driver is mounted. What gives? Have I gone quite insane?
no you are not insane, merely unaware. The second Demo; That small tweeter is actually a full range speaker. The stand is actually the "throat" at the beginning of a horn. The large box is divided into sequentially larger passages. This is called a "Folded Back Loaded Horn. it was designed by a Japanese fellow named Ngaoka Tetsuo. Information on this is somewhat hard to find.
The first Demo; Its merely a flat board with a driver mounted on it. Google Martin J King open back design for more detailed theory.
Both Demos contain a single full range driver. there is a small group of audiophiles that feel that "crossovers" of any sort degrade the performance of speaker drivers. Simplicity is the key, and the amplifier of choice is a SET amp. ( Single Ended Triode ). The 300B Set is considered to be one of the best. Although I do not see one in the video.
ohhh, got it, thank you for the info.
Good sound👍🏻
okay, 'c'mon is that a viola at 0:25 seconds?
open baffle is the better of the two
Direc!!!
Prefer rear. Easier on hearing.
@Logical Thinker I understand the intent. However, it is illogical to believe ANY just comparison can be made--even in regards to enclosure design alone--when differences in driver quality and capabilities are so dramatic.
One cannot derive a fair comparison of anything when the originating sources are drastically different. Drastically different base sources will always produce drastically different results, effectively nullifying any attempt at comparison.
Presenting the two designs in
wish i was there!
Also back loaded horn
Why?
Open baffle, better.
LD!?
Why? He doesn't state he is comparing just the OB vs enclosed cabinet concepts. He clearly states he is comparing the cabinets AND different divers.
If everyone compared cabinets but weren't allowed to compare different drivers that'd make comparisons of different speakers impossible.
OB is much better fom me!!!
would you like some cupped hands with that cello?
Back Loaded Horn is better!
loa đẹp
ｽｰﾊﾟｰｽﾜﾝが安定した音を再生するまでには、どのくらいの時間がかかりますか。
私も、元旦にスーパースワンを作りましたが音の伸びやかさや低域の再生のいった面でいまひとつ納得できません。
L'open baffle ha molta più aria intorno...più aperto....ovviamente...ma
..completo...col secondo
..pare più chiuso...scatolato...
Second one,
open baffle
Open baffle..... too easy. Next question.
Presenting the two designs in this manner creates the false impression of the superiority of one design over the other.
rear firing against a wall... honestly not sure what this video is trying to show.. i can put a speaker in a closet vs a speaker in my living room... wonder
Open Baffel
No it isn't. In my opinion OB is better. See, it's easy.
HIDEMI SUZUKI
Open baffle...
Tiny drivers never sound as real as full sized ones. Small = thinner sound usually. No exception here. But do equalize levels before uploading as the louder system will SEEM to sound better. Perceiving louder as better is an old trick used by audio salesman.
I'm listening to your speakers placed in your room acoustics being recorded by a microphone (of some sort) compressed to 480p and then played over my speakers in my room acoustics. I don't think this is a realistic way to compare ;-/
Same here, but, I can clearly tell the difference between the two - open baffle is very "open" sounding, the horn loaded sounds as if you put a blanket over the open baffles.
いちばん さいしょ の ウピーカ は むちゃくち いい です。セロ の こえ が
すごく ひろい ね。ふつ の open baffle sound! ぼく の おね が この
SUITE を ほとんど、毎日 ひきました。あなたの ビデオ は そお’
じかな なつかし しました！
ありがとう！
Jason
You're stuck in a loop & repeating YOUR goal, which isn't the goal of the video maker.
"...illogical to believe ANY just comparison can be made--even in regards to enclosure design alone--when differences in driver quality and capabilities are so dramatic"
The comparison is of the speaker in it's entirety, not the components that make up a speaker.
By using your method we couldn't compare cars because they have different engines, rear/front drive, etc.
Тела нет
you= 00 0
please treat your room... the open baffe design is all unwanted reflections all over😅 all i can hear is your room reflecting the music... allmost the same with the horn