Enter into our giveaway of 3 $100 Barbell Apparel gift cards! Download BaseStrengthAI here: www.BaseStrength.com Proudly sponsored by Barbell Apparel! Get BRMLY merch at www.barbellapparel.com/
The only thing I still seriously scoff at is the quarter rep stuff. I see so many skinny legged guys in the gym loading up 2+ plates and barely moving that shit. If a dumb, giraffe-esque guy like me can take 3 plates below parallel, most guys should be about to figure that shit out.
Yea athletic performance is one thing, but if it’s just a gym bro who’s trying to get bigger and stronger legs then I absolutely cringe at the 1/4 squats as well. I see those guys all the time too…and yea it’s always like 2 plates or 275, never any other weight 😂
Depends on whether or not they're an athlete. Sport specificity is real, and if an athlete is exploding from the quarter squat position in competition, they should train it often in the gym. This doesn't mean entirely ignore heavy full ROM exercise, but simply deprioritize it when the goal is to improve position specific performance.
I’ve recently started Zercher squats and I wish I’d known about them years ago when I was wrestling in high school. The only thing I can think of closer to a shot is a zercher lunge, if that’s even a thing.
after 2 years, i managed to pinpoint the problems that caused me repeat injuries when I went deep and finally got to a form that lets me go deep without injuries now. I still cant do heavy weights but I can squat deep without injury and with progressively heavier weights over time. skill & ego issue. I literally had to use like 1/4 max weight for 2 years to figure it out, i bet u never go low weight for anything longer than a week.
@@Krack2805 You claim it is an ego issue, yet your ego couldn't handle not going as deep as others so you wasted years finding a way to squat to other people's standards, while you could've horsed just loads of weights going to 90 degrrees/parallel. (Pointing out this because by 90 degrees I mean the femur is in 90 degrees ie horizontally) I do understand your point though, pulling this number out of my ass 99% of people can find a deep squat position they can overload without pain. But there are plenty of people with massive quads who stop at parallel, including many high achieving powerlifters. Depth is overrated, in a way, if you let it prevent your gains.
Your shins would have to be completely vertical to hit parallel at 90 degrees. Most people squat with a forward shin angel, so a 90 degree squat is basically a quarter squat for most.
If I see a guy with 18 inch arms and 21 inch quads and they’re not squatting deep, I’m judging the everliving fuck out of them. Free will ends where I have to look at quarter rep squats
Some people want a V-taper over an X frame. Also a lot of people train for girls. Quarter squatting is an abomination, but some guys just don't want quads.
I have been using my slant board to work my way to those perfect deep squats with my feet perfectly aligned. I am all the way to the bottom position of the slant board. I can do it with my legs apart like that yoga version, but that's from the weightlifting. I am actually thinking about getting those stools for your second home office situation to do just what you say (no joke). This is something worth training. My lower back is totally pain free and it helps alleviate pain considerably from running. ATG squat in all its forms is medicine.
I'm 52 and am able to squat deep. I do it for powerlifting but also because I lose that ROM if I don't practice it. I admit that there is a bit of ego because an old guy squatting deep in a commercial gym is a rarity.
Yup, 36 years old and it fixed my patellar tendonopathy right up and improved my regular squat strength more than regular squatting during that time period. Strongly recommend them to everyone, even if you're programming them once a year to shape up your squatting technique.
I started lifting too late for the online debate, but I started squatting deep out of necessity. Once I started going atg on heavy days, I had to drop a hundred pounds and relearn the squat😢, but I stopped getting knee & hip pain. Study of n=1, so take that for what you will, dear reader.
Deep squats also fixed my knee pain. Now im adding like thirds squats into the mix, building some strength for the vertical jump, which introduced knee pain again xD. But the squats themself are ok, it seems that as long as i dont stop at parallel, my knees are fine.
I had the opposite experience. I tried building up weight slowly in atg squats after 6 weeks of prepping them with paused reps. We're talking like, full 5 second pauses on every rep. My right knee started hurting more every week. Took some time off, came back to squatting with a wider stance, more hip travel, just a bit below parallel. Knee pain is almost gone now. I think I have a hip imbalance. Something's definitely uneven, and causes that R knee to track a bit differently. Still working on figuring that one out, but in the meantime cutting a few inches of depth has allowed me to continue squatting heavy-ish while I do so. TL;DR: Everyone's different.
@@krisreilly8856Had this exact experience - started ATG and started to get nagging hip and knee pain after a while. Recently switched to a bit below parallel and I’ve experienced less pain and what feels like more stimulus. Not comprehensive but it seems to be working for me!
The biggest thing that usually helps my clients is squatting ATG. If anything is a benefit from squatting as low as possible, is joint health. Especially if you use bands & chains to flatten the strength curve
I squatted for a very long time. And it wasnt til i started to do ass to grass that my strength blew up. Idc what anyonw says, a2g is the best looking squat variation and engages your leg muscles in the most natural way possible.
I dont get why there's such an aversion to recognizing that sometimes you need some stretching and strengthening to reach a bit more depth safely, whilst still not becoming a form purist and "functionality" fanatic, and also not going full meat head and thinking that working on mobility is always a waste of time and you should be lifting as much weight as possible. Balance is key, I obsess over the squat and wish I could go ATG just like Clarence, unfortunately my body is not the same so that might never happen but I'm still happy going a little deeper each time and seeing If I can actually gain more mobility.
Your bouncing argument kind of makes sense until you go and watch weightlifters high-bar pause squatting without belts on. They are just the superior squatters unfortunately
Recently switched to low bar from high bar atg and it feels way stronger and way better on my hips and knees. I would highly recommend learning the techinque.
Same for me. If I do high bar, I have to use a wedge behind my feet as my physiologic makeup won’t let me do them without leaning forward (I do have a strong core and squat 315 absolute atg for many reps with low bar)
You feel stronger because youre hinging at then hips more which makes your stomach touch your legs at the bottom. It is good to learn both variations but high bar at2 is the best for athletisism and longevity. Idc who you are. After a few sets of low bar your lower back starts feeling it.
@@daniellovesosrs I agree that ATG could be beneficial for improving longevity/mobility, but as far as improving athletic performance, strong hips are way more important than strong quads. Most of the force for running and jumping comes from the hips, with the quads mainly acting as shock absorbers when the feet strike the ground. Nobody sets up for a jump in an ATG squat, they do a hip hinge.
You can def quarter rep a bench with an arched back it’s why I always say deadlift is king of the compounds because you can’t cheat a deadlift it’s the only true measure of a man’s strength imo
@@MogMonster87That's a very bad argument for the deadlift being the best compound. Lanky skinny guys sometimes get a huge deadlift just out of (mostly) leverage. Like myself: not tall dude at all, but because I have some short ass legs and longish arms, I can't almost get in a position where the whole movement is basically a hip thrust, thus making it very easy for me compared to other compound lifts.
I spent years freaking out over squat depth. It got to the point where it actively ruined the excercise for me. I would record, freeze frame, and just completely disregard any lift I did if my depth wasn't provably below parellel. If I didn't record the lift, the PR didn't count. I have difficulty reaching below parellel. Even at my deepest, the crest of my hip goes just barely below the tip of my knees, even without weight on the bar. (I'm very duck-footed, I can literally turn my feet backwards.) See my PFP. I started to dread squatting, because it became more about the lift looking good than about actually getting a good training stimulus. And, more importantly, enjoying my time in the gym. I would be bummed out all week if I did a set where a rep or two was a titch shallow. Lately, I've changed my mindset. I go to squat because I enjoy it. I'm not competing. How many people can rep 405 to parallel? Sure, its more impressive to rep the same weight ATG, but lifting is all about YOUR journey. YOUR progress. As long as I'm consistently progressing, getting bigger, and enjoying my time lifting, that's all that matters to me.
Well yeah, but uhhhhhh. Injury prevention of the utmost priority as a lifter gets older. You only prevent injury being strong in the deepest ranges of motion you can achieve and working your flexibility under a load
If the deep squat is done correctly, absolutely. Many people tend to lose vertical shin placement on deep squats, however, which is a fast track to patellar tendonopathy (take it from me!). Ironically, parallel box squatting was the cure for that problem. I think, after really learning and loving both parallel and deep squats, that they both have their purpose in strength and injury prevention. I know that moving forward, I program both for the same reason as your point, which is a good one.
@@Supersmartandfunnyguy Vertical shin placment has been debunked for like a decade, please stop regurgitating old evidence, knees going over toes is completely safe if you actually work on your mobility as shown by every single weighlifter.
@@DogginsFroggins i have half a patellar tendon in my left knee and i have to be careful with knees over toes. i squat atg, narrow stance, high bar. if i go too high on volume or try to move fast in the squat, i get tendonitis. never had it in the right knee. knees over toes is almost always safe *if* you incorporate other movements to help the tendon, lift with a slower tempo, and have near-perfect form. if you divebomb atg squats, do no isometric work (spanish squats, wall sits, the hundred other things you can do), go crazy with the volume, have bad form, or have funky hip mobility, you'll feel it. how often do you see professional oly weightlifters with a knee wrap over their patellas? pretty damn often, and they do most everything right. so, the old method was "well i stopped going knees over toes and my pain went away that must be the problem." it was "debunked" by the above. it is safe, *if* you're smart about it. those two letters do a lot of heavy lifting. people shouldn't go crazy on those movements without knowing how to do them properly, nor should they be led to do so.
I never approach anyone at the gym to give advice except for one thing and that’s tall guys doing 3 plate quarter squats. I’m 6”3 with super long legs so I know how hard it is to start but after getting weightlifting shoes with a higher heel it changed everything.
Bouncing out of the bottom can be avoided by pausing for 1 sec but then they'd have to drop the weight even more. The bouncing lets them do more weight in full range of motion. I still think bouncing with full rom is better than half rom more weight
coming from a guy who does primarily ATG pin squat and Anderson squat variations these days...I will tell you that "bouncing" out of the bottom is actually a skill. The harder the bounce and the heavier the weight the more skill is required. Where athleticism is concerned a massive bounce off the tendons is probably the most productive way to squat in reality.
For bodybuilding, ATG squats are simply better, dude. If you can get the same stimulus with less weight on the bar, you do it. For strength, a specific ROM is more important, but in bodybuilding, you're not chasing numbers or performance. Going ATG vs parallel lets me take 20% off the bar right away, and if I'm trying to control the eccentric and keep tension at the bottom (not bouncing off my tendons), then even more.
These are the 2 factors which work best for me in squatting. 1. Do everything medium. 2. Don’t make a big fuss about it just tell yourself it’s easy no matter what you’re trying to do.
Yo fr, second one works wonders. I literally tell myself "lightweight" and my brain flips a switch and my confidence goes up tremendously even when performing HEAVY singles
ATG for muscle makes most sense, considering you're contracting the muscle from the biggest stretch, it makes sense you get the best overall contraction. Same way you do dumbbells for better chest development, or even don't stop bench past leveled elbowd to get max chest stretch.
Hi Alex, thanks for the video. Isn't many of the things said in this video are contradicts the bench press video you published last year? (the How to Bench Press for NO Gains video). Many of the things said here can be applied for bench press, but in that video you advocate for the "ATG" version of bench. Cheers.
I think the problem many of us have with partial rep squats is that we often see shallow depth because someone with subpar leg development is trying to ego lift way too much instead of reducing weight and getting full ROM. Personally, if I see a guy with huge legs doing a half squat, it doesn’t bother me at all.
Just because you mentioned it several times throughout the video. Stretch mediated hypertrophy and training at long muscle lengths aren’t the same thing. Stretch mediated hypertrophy is the concept of holding static stretches for long periods of time. Resulting in hypertrophy. Training at long muscle lengths is spending more time in the stretched position. Performing lengthened partials. As far as depth goes. Greg Nuckels has a great article on this. Quads get most stimulus around parallel. Glutes get more going deeper than that.
I don’t know if we’re talking about the same article, but last time I checked (a couple years ago in Uni), the muscle activation for the quads during a squat is highest when parallel, but muscle activation doesn’t equate to growth stimulus
@@maroc-al-helmidi Yeah I just got back to lifting after an 8 year hiatus. The previous 6 months of low bar squatting to parallel have left me lagging quads. Just started using front squats on the second day has fired my quads up a lot, fucks my shit up in a whole different way. I think they'll pick up steam quick, particularly I still have another 6 months of beginner gains.
@@maroc-al-helmidi I’d have to look back on it. I believe he was referring to a some research where they assessed cross sectional area increases, not just activation.
If you look at the most recent ACE CPT guide it covers that full range of motion supports injury prevention. Having strength at all portions of a lift enables you to decelerate safely. Respectfully injury prevention is more important than muscle size and strength combined.
My quads, glutes, and adductors saw substantial improvement in growth, and overall force production when I switched to full ROM squat. Not only that but my mobility has also been enhanced significantly. That being said I recognize the importance of partial rom squat in certain circumstances depending on goals.
I love a** to grass. I had to get rid of my ego but it was the best thing for me. never felt better, stronger, and more mobile. But I understand sport specific types of squats too
DEEP squats helps: 1) Expanding the chest; 2) Stimulating overall muscle growth; 3) Increasing Tidal Volume. Deep squats isn't ONLY to build thigh muscles, it helps the body overall. It's TRUE that you can build thigh muscles WITHOUT squatting (e.g., Dorian Yates). But, Dorian is a professional. For beginners, nothing -- and, I mean NOTHING -- beats deep squats for the beginner!!!!!
Thank you for the upload Brother! With the upmost respect Sir: depth is not overrated! Squat Depth and Muscle Activation: Squats are popular for building strength and muscle mass in the lower body. Research shows that squatting at different depths activates muscles differently: Full-depth squats (140° knee flexion) engage the quads, glutes, and adductors more effectively. Half-depth squats (90° knee flexion) activate these muscles to a lesser extent1. Takeaway: Full-range-of-motion squats seem best for maximizing glute and adductor hypertrophy. Strength and Squat Depth: Strength gains are specific to the depth you train at. If you want to improve strength at a particular depth, train there consistently. Deep squats (full range of motion) have better carryover to shallow squats than vice versa2. Hypertrophy and Squat Depth: Deeper squats may be more hypertrophic for the gluteus maximus. Squat depth beyond 90° knee flexion may not significantly enhance knee extensor hypertrophy3. In summary, prioritize full-depth squats for glute and adductor growth, and consider your specific strength goals when choosing squat depth. Happy lifting! P.S. you will notice that anybody can do 1/4 squats with 2x their own bodyweight with zero practise: however; you can only squat 2x your own bodyweight from FULL arse-to-ground with actually practising; if you squat from knees parallel aa 50% depth then most people can squat their own bodyweight from here no practise (or do I just know super humans?). In summation: squat DEEP ARSE-TO-GROUND & only practise variations for specific reasons e.g. practise sticking areas; to increase end range of motion strength which will carryover to developing a frame better able to produce & handle greater reaction forces! Peace & Love!!!
When i dropped the weight and focused on getting my hip crease below my knee, I started to feel my quads way more. I would go lower, but i have shit leg hip and ankle mobility due to age and the fact that I weighed nearly 400 pounds 4 years ago.
Breaking down my squat form is something I do often. The older you get the better your squat form needs to be. I am soon to be 53 years old and I squat twice a week one day low bar squat and one day high bar squat.
Took me nearly 18months (tight Achilles) to be able to squat deep with proper form. My back issues went away. My sciatica issues went away. My D grew thicker (not longer) and lastly the guys doing half squats started noticing my deep deep depth and got very jealous. I go deep. It took time.
I really enjoyed this vlog. Subscribed! In a nut shell try everything in moderation and enjoy your journey to us 99% with average body that want to live a healthy lifestyle.
Good video. I think mentioning how a person's build is obviously relevant to how deep they can squat, but I also think it would be worth mentioning that getting good with a deeper squat will make you a more flexible squatter, and person in general. To me this is a big advantage of being a deep squat cultist that should be covered in addition to a hypertrophy and strength evaluation. I would consider my build on the more disadvantageous side for high bar deep squats (I'm 6'1, so not terrible), but more importantly, when I started squatting my hip and ankle mobility were trash. Once I watched a Tom Platz clinic on TH-cam and devoted my lifting life to the Quadfather, it took a while to get into a confortable position, where I could drive my knees forward enough to sink down into a squat. Once it did though, I got into a groove: my hip flexors got strong as shit, my ankles are got more and more flexible (still improving!), and I can squat down to grab a pot from under the sink in record times. As you mentioned, one should no doubt include other forms of squatting that focus on producing force in other positions for a more well rounded training approach, no argument there. But the advantages of a deep squat for unfucking an average desk worker's hips and ankles blow whatever strength specific adaptations that come from doing a box squat with a bunch of fucking chains and bands and chaos theory shit you showed out of the water. Just my two cents, anyway.
Brother: regarding kinetic forces; in order to mitigate all kinetic reaction forces you need to cease ALL movement for at LEAST 5 seconds. There is no example of this in your clips including Zydrunas! This mean that YES he is still using kinetic action forces as are the Olympic weightlifters. Please respect that both athletes are performing sport specific exercises & both modalities are useful for the common lifter dependent upon goals!!! Peace & Love!!!
Ultimately, it's your body. Do what you want. I started squatting atg with pause reps, and both my numbers and legs exploded. Just my 2 cents. It took a lot of mobility work to get flexible enough to do it, but I noticed a difference immediately. I have long femurs and it was challenging, but obviously not impossible. The time under tension forces you to really learn how to brace your core. I thought I knew, but I really didn't. It also translated to my deadlifts and strict presses. I got across the board improvements from atg pause squats.
QUESTION - INJURY PREVENTION - by not going full ROM on heavy lifts, what are the implications to injury prevention? Does the benefits of less danger outweigh whatever benefits you might gain from going deep? Thanks!
0:51 Man, the nostalgia... Back in those days I remember buying so many of those magazines and using them for discussion/debate material with my Dad and my best friends. 😅😂
It was through doing deep squats and subsequently getting an X-Ray that I learned I have an extra vertebrae in my spine and should avoid doing deep squats. I've no doubt they're awesome for a lot of people, but probably not worth pressuring people over it.
when I started squatting, I went up to 120kg squats but my legs were average at best. Right now I came back to doing sports, Im squatting 65 right now, ass to grass with 1 second pause and controlled excentric. My legs have never been bigger and more defined. I see muscle separation that has never been known to me in the past. My quads are getting stimulated always, without failure. Dunno about anyone else but deep squats completely changed the way I look at squats.
Show the evidence of remain silent. Any study shows massive superiority of stretch over shallow depth. Why don't you just show evidence of the contrary to make the claim that stretch-mediated hypertrophy is overrated instead of yapping the whole time? I thought we're past that in 2024.
It was a very long time before I accepted that my long legs, short torso body structure was not meant to squat low for quad gains. So, I lowered the weight significantly, raised my heels up. After squatting heels up for 1 year, my legs grew from 24 to 30 inches
Sad to see people in the comments not hearing what you're actually saying. Thanks for the video. I understood you to be saying, "Deep square aren't the only way to squat, because different squats produce different outcomes, so it depends on what your goals are." Not a complicated thesis, lots of nuance in the execution.
I go deep on squats but here is a question: Why is it frowned upon to bounce a bench press off your chest ( which it should be) but not frowned upon to bounce a squat off of your calves?
powerlifting requires a pause. generally intelligent touch and go benching as a bodybuilding/PL variation looks a lot different from bro touch and go benching
Its frowned upon to bounce your bench bc thats a shortcut to snapping your pec off the bone especially under maximal loads. "Bouncing" out of the hole in the squat is not inherently injurious
Because benching is a hypertrophy/numbers movement, squatting is an athletic movement. Athletes other than powerlifters and bodybuilders have nothing to gain from benching. Benching is an unnatural movement at an arbitrary angle that doesn't occur in nature (unless specifically pushing a rock off of yourself). This is why traditional bodybuilders had small pecs, because it was seen as ugly and unnatural (still is in my opinion). 90% of general athleticism and power comes from the hips. The hips are the strongest part of the human body. A guy with giant hips and ass is probably a stronger and more athletic dude. Squats train the most important part of the human body for athleticism. And athleticism is all about momentum.
I try to do ATG because if I start getting just to parallel then ill start adding more weight and my form will suffer because if I can only go to parallel then maybe i shouldnt lift that weight at all. Instead, improve my ATG strength and slowly get there.
Who cares about max growth. Depth gives you functional strength! Real depth requires you to stretch out your whole pelvic girdle. Aside from adding plates, how about just comfortably "Asian squatting" to play with your kid? ATG combines strength and flexibility together!
ATG IS NOT NECESSARY!! However, I squat close or to ATG cuz at parallels or slightly above it , hurts my knees. I tried at parallel and it was a no go.
I'm opposite I'm physically incapable of going below parrallel , currently trying to get to parrallel I might need a knee replacement to achieve more range of motion..
The main counter I have to the sport range-specific approach is that in a field sport that has live opposition, a live, uncontrolled ball etc, the athlete may not always have complete control of what position they may find themselves in and need to be strong in. So I would still advise keeping *some* deeper squats in the program, sometimes.
Back in the 2000 I was training using partial range motions. I got up to using 515 x 20 reps. Then I went back to full range I was able to squat 405 x10
I don't think "full" range of motion for muscle growth is important at all. Limited range of motion is probably sometimes better because the leverages change drastically in most lifts, meaning that some parts will bottleneck the weight that can be used through a full range of motion, *especially* if "strict" form is used (another gains killer). But clean ATG high bar squats are just simply about the esthetic appeal. And about mobility.
I've always thought parallel-ish with a little wiggle room. You can't apply competitive standards to a non-competitor in a permanent off season anyway. Works for me.
I feel like Bromley has misunderstood the point of the "evidence-based approach" (I hate that term, because all approaches to training are evidence-based) to hypertrophy. Partially, this falls on the science-based community: they sometimes seem to imply that the exercises and form they champion are best for everyone. But it's pretty clear that they're saying "according to the best current literature, these are the practices that will bring the most muscle growth *while minimizing systemic fatigue*" It's the "minimizing systemic fatigue" part that I think should be said louder. Of course, controlled squats to just above parallel will stimulate massive amounts of growth, but if you can get the same hypertrophic stimulus from squatting 2 plates ATG and 3 plates to just above parallel, and all you care about is hypertrophy, then the ATG squats are by far the clear choice. Things get WAY less black and white when taking strength into account. I don't think the science-based community has said nearly ANYTHING about ideal ranges of motion for strength gain.
Here’s the issue you’ve got, Bromley. I want to say first that I love your content and overall respect your work. You draw distinctions between someone who is “evidence based” vs someone who focuses on “outcomes.” The issue is that these are not philosophically different. Whether or not it’s published, drawing upon your experience, figuring out what works and what doesn’t *is* a scientific mindset, and could even be said to be primitive science, even if it doesn’t have control groups, large sample sizes, etc. This individual experience is essentially low-quality, unpublished science. Now, part of what is so tough here is that when it comes to lifting, just about anything works as long as you have decent genetics and don’t get hurt. This leads to individual lifters having overconfidence in their methods just because it worked for them. The reality is, even if it is low quality science we are dealing with and we may not fully trust it (and we *shouldn’t*), it’s the best we have got. That’s the thing about science: aggregating experiences, controlling for confounding variables, and getting lots of data is the best we have got, even if it isn’t perfect. And none of this is to say any one person is *wrong* about what works for them. The science isn’t there yet, but that doesn’t that it’s useless or entirely invalid; it’s just in an early state relative to more mature branches of science. I truly think we don’t disagree as much as it might sound. It seems to me that you think you disagree more with the “evidence based” community more than you actually do. Stay strong.
Saying deep squats will get you better results than shallow squats is like saying more training will get you better raults than less training. The real question is, "what are sacrificing for it?". For most people, it's consistency and patience. They will skip the whole day od gym just because of that.
deep squats are goated because if you can squat 500lbs atg doing a parallel squat feels like cheating honestly its so much easier night and day difference
I dont find it to be night and day difference in regards to difficulty, but they almost feel like completely different exercises. A big component of the ATG squat is the big bounce you get out of the bottom, in a parallel squat you dont get that. So there is no way to estimate how much more you will parallel squat if you only stick to ATG. If you know how to execute the bounce, its possible your parallel squat will not be much bigger.
I do my squats high bar, narrow stance, paused, ass to grass. Due to an injury this is now my strongest range of motion. Injury was a broken femur, torn rotator cuff, and broken wrist from a motorcycle crash, so squatting with a wide stance is now very painful on my right leg even only to parallel, and the result of the torn cuff was that even 6 months post surgery I can no longer get my shoulder into the low bar position, so high bar it is. Somehow, despite all that, I'm stronger now with high bar, narrow, ATG squats than I ever was with low bar wide stance parallels. When I eventually get back into a powerlifting meet I'll probably be one of the few people at my local meets squatting ATG high bar which is kind of cool. Still agree with the message here though, super extreme ass to grass rom isn't for everybody and isn't really super useful especially for training for powerlifting. Can be a lot more useful for bodybuilders though.
I used to do ATG but had to stop due to worsening hip impingement. Yes it does make you feel "hardcore" but it's not worth it for everyone, especially as you age. Honestly wish I had changed up sooner.
I feel you man, but convincing yourself you shouldn't try to improve your range of motion could honestly hurt those long legs in the long run. My 6'4 friend blew out his knee because he would never squat to good depth and he complained about the same leg length problems you have. It's completely true that you have a strength disadvantage because of that height, but because of that your knees may be even more vulnerable than someone who is shorter. If you haven't already, check out the kneesovertoes guy and he has alot of stuff that really helped my knee mobility and took i away the pain that i had as a tall guy when i would do legs. Don't get blackpilled into giving up on squats.
I dont even go parallel. Due to work injuries to the rear of my pelvic area when i round my butt with anything over 155 lbs, i will instantly drop. So i pretty much stop around 90° at my knees. It doesnt stop me from squatting, i love squatting and feel a tiny bit self conscious about my depth.
I would say that training both atg and parallel it's valuable and find it's place. I think both offer benefits in a sense. Developing the mobility and using it just because you can of squatting all the way down it's cool if you like it or value it. However as you say isn't the only way to bend the knees fully and probably there's a better approach for that sake. I find for strength parallel to the floor it's better than atg.
it's simple if you're going to squat aquat to depth anything else doesn't count full range of motion is the only right way unless you have some type of injury there's no excuse
Well, except for competitive powerlifters and maybe strogman nobady needs to squat, though if you can I do think depth and technique should cone first, once solid progress like any other lift,if 200lb for sets of 10 is all you'll ever need I certainly think that will boost your longevity, though for muscle growth in the short to mid term it will be a very slight difference, even after years it might be only noticeable under stage conditions in direct comparison to you're twin/clone.
Enter into our giveaway of 3 $100 Barbell Apparel gift cards! Download BaseStrengthAI here:
www.BaseStrength.com
Proudly sponsored by Barbell Apparel! Get BRMLY merch at www.barbellapparel.com/
I can front squat almost as much as you haha, nice lifts and video tho!
@@pickachugamng9455 Almost? So you can't? lol lil bro.🤡
@@I0MSammy How much do you do?
My quads grew significantly when i changed to deep squats.
I constantly forget to cycle those in. Thanks for the reminder.
My ass got way bigger in relation to my quads and now it looks gay and ugly. Deep squats are out next training block.
@@user-he4ef9br7z😂😂
@@user-he4ef9br7zsounds like youre projecting
@@user-he4ef9br7z bro women like big butts.
The only thing I still seriously scoff at is the quarter rep stuff. I see so many skinny legged guys in the gym loading up 2+ plates and barely moving that shit. If a dumb, giraffe-esque guy like me can take 3 plates below parallel, most guys should be about to figure that shit out.
Yea athletic performance is one thing, but if it’s just a gym bro who’s trying to get bigger and stronger legs then I absolutely cringe at the 1/4 squats as well. I see those guys all the time too…and yea it’s always like 2 plates or 275, never any other weight 😂
Depends on whether or not they're an athlete. Sport specificity is real, and if an athlete is exploding from the quarter squat position in competition, they should train it often in the gym. This doesn't mean entirely ignore heavy full ROM exercise, but simply deprioritize it when the goal is to improve position specific performance.
Yeah I'm 6'7" so even just below parallel my butt is still a bit from the floor.
@@donventura2116Dynamic effort has tons of crossover. I'm super tall and love it.
They skipped that phase he mentioned of middle/high school "general athletic preparation" before using more specific approaches.
No skid marks, no squat.
Squat everyday 😂
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Amen brother I'm here to make sure everyone who steps under that rack after me knows who's boss, doggy style
Understood sir!
😂 lmao
we need to get Alexander and Dr. Mike in a room to chat
"chat" 😂
room? you mean thunderdome
That’ll be embarrassing for Bromley
Dr Mike is 1.3 munchkins tall.
@@jasonshults368 with a 5 munchkin long dong
For wrestlers/judokas/BJJ peeps, strength in the super deep squat position is extremely useful.
And also women.
I’ve recently started Zercher squats and I wish I’d known about them years ago when I was wrestling in high school. The only thing I can think of closer to a shot is a zercher lunge, if that’s even a thing.
also karateka
@@kristoferprovencal3608 Closest lift to a mat return or crotch lift, I totally get it.
@@kristoferprovencal3608Im going in to high school and am a wrestler and will try these thanks man
Depth is definitely not overrated
Guys,
do not listen to e -beggers. stretch everyday, squat proper.
Yours faithfully,
Weightlifters and wrestlers.
After 3 years of lifting i figured every body is different so form will vary. I injured myself listening to the form police.
after 2 years, i managed to pinpoint the problems that caused me repeat injuries when I went deep and finally got to a form that lets me go deep without injuries now. I still cant do heavy weights but I can squat deep without injury and with progressively heavier weights over time.
skill & ego issue. I literally had to use like 1/4 max weight for 2 years to figure it out, i bet u never go low weight for anything longer than a week.
@@Krack2805said everything
@@Krack2805 You claim it is an ego issue, yet your ego couldn't handle not going as deep as others so you wasted years finding a way to squat to other people's standards, while you could've horsed just loads of weights going to 90 degrrees/parallel. (Pointing out this because by 90 degrees I mean the femur is in 90 degrees ie horizontally)
I do understand your point though, pulling this number out of my ass 99% of people can find a deep squat position they can overload without pain. But there are plenty of people with massive quads who stop at parallel, including many high achieving powerlifters. Depth is overrated, in a way, if you let it prevent your gains.
@@marken816 Nah bro, Lower the better, It's morally and aesthetically superior.
Your shins would have to be completely vertical to hit parallel at 90 degrees. Most people squat with a forward shin angel, so a 90 degree squat is basically a quarter squat for most.
If I see a guy with 18 inch arms and 21 inch quads and they’re not squatting deep, I’m judging the everliving fuck out of them. Free will ends where I have to look at quarter rep squats
Why 18 inch arms and 21 inch quads lol
@@furquawn7067because his legs wouldn’t be much bigger than his arms and he’s not squatting deep…. lol
@@Zebrahhh gotcha
@@Zebrahhh I mean my legs goes down to 27 inches at their smallest, however when they are that size they look much thinner
Some people want a V-taper over an X frame. Also a lot of people train for girls. Quarter squatting is an abomination, but some guys just don't want quads.
I’m old, I keep squatting deep so I can squat to shit if I ever need to
I have been using my slant board to work my way to those perfect deep squats with my feet perfectly aligned. I am all the way to the bottom position of the slant board. I can do it with my legs apart like that yoga version, but that's from the weightlifting. I am actually thinking about getting those stools for your second home office situation to do just what you say (no joke). This is something worth training. My lower back is totally pain free and it helps alleviate pain considerably from running. ATG squat in all its forms is medicine.
Lol based
I'm 52 and am able to squat deep. I do it for powerlifting but also because I lose that ROM if I don't practice it. I admit that there is a bit of ego because an old guy squatting deep in a commercial gym is a rarity.
Yeah I’m the same as well about depth
Old is 75 dude
I know so may guys in their 60s deep squatting no problem
Old guys/ladies squatting deep is one of my favorite things to see in the gym. I guess it just shows that it can be done.
Squatting deep is probably the best thing for knee health long term.
That is the opposite of ego.
Parallel box squats has allowed me to squat despite my meniscus tear at the age 62.
Yeah I do those because I'm super tall.
That’s a perfect use case for box squats
Box squats are awesome
Yup, 36 years old and it fixed my patellar tendonopathy right up and improved my regular squat strength more than regular squatting during that time period. Strongly recommend them to everyone, even if you're programming them once a year to shape up your squatting technique.
I started lifting too late for the online debate, but I started squatting deep out of necessity.
Once I started going atg on heavy days, I had to drop a hundred pounds and relearn the squat😢, but I stopped getting knee & hip pain.
Study of n=1, so take that for what you will, dear reader.
Same here
Deep squats also fixed my knee pain. Now im adding like thirds squats into the mix, building some strength for the vertical jump, which introduced knee pain again xD. But the squats themself are ok, it seems that as long as i dont stop at parallel, my knees are fine.
I had the opposite experience. I tried building up weight slowly in atg squats after 6 weeks of prepping them with paused reps. We're talking like, full 5 second pauses on every rep. My right knee started hurting more every week. Took some time off, came back to squatting with a wider stance, more hip travel, just a bit below parallel. Knee pain is almost gone now.
I think I have a hip imbalance. Something's definitely uneven, and causes that R knee to track a bit differently. Still working on figuring that one out, but in the meantime cutting a few inches of depth has allowed me to continue squatting heavy-ish while I do so.
TL;DR: Everyone's different.
@@krisreilly8856Had this exact experience - started ATG and started to get nagging hip and knee pain after a while. Recently switched to a bit below parallel and I’ve experienced less pain and what feels like more stimulus. Not comprehensive but it seems to be working for me!
The biggest thing that usually helps my clients is squatting ATG. If anything is a benefit from squatting as low as possible, is joint health. Especially if you use bands & chains to flatten the strength curve
Atg is not good for joint health
Agreed 100%. What fixed my knee pain was squatting ATG instead of just to parallel
@@MikeReplukignorant fool😔
@@MikeReplukit’s not too late to delete this
@@MikeReplukany evidence other than some old guy telling you this with no evidence?
I squatted for a very long time. And it wasnt til i started to do ass to grass that my strength blew up. Idc what anyonw says, a2g is the best looking squat variation and engages your leg muscles in the most natural way possible.
I dont get why there's such an aversion to recognizing that sometimes you need some stretching and strengthening to reach a bit more depth safely, whilst still not becoming a form purist and "functionality" fanatic, and also not going full meat head and thinking that working on mobility is always a waste of time and you should be lifting as much weight as possible.
Balance is key, I obsess over the squat and wish I could go ATG just like Clarence, unfortunately my body is not the same so that might never happen but I'm still happy going a little deeper each time and seeing If I can actually gain more mobility.
Your bouncing argument kind of makes sense until you go and watch weightlifters high-bar pause squatting without belts on. They are just the superior squatters unfortunately
Recently switched to low bar from high bar atg and it feels way stronger and way better on my hips and knees. I would highly recommend learning the techinque.
Same for me. If I do high bar, I have to use a wedge behind my feet as my physiologic makeup won’t let me do them without leaning forward (I do have a strong core and squat 315 absolute atg for many reps with low bar)
You feel stronger because youre hinging at then hips more which makes your stomach touch your legs at the bottom. It is good to learn both variations but high bar at2 is the best for athletisism and longevity. Idc who you are. After a few sets of low bar your lower back starts feeling it.
@@daniellovesosrs How is it better for athleticism, because of mobility?
@@ambatukoom mobility and explosiveness mainly. Ive also found as to grasd has strengthened my tendons.
@@daniellovesosrs I agree that ATG could be beneficial for improving longevity/mobility, but as far as improving athletic performance, strong hips are way more important than strong quads. Most of the force for running and jumping comes from the hips, with the quads mainly acting as shock absorbers when the feet strike the ground. Nobody sets up for a jump in an ATG squat, they do a hip hinge.
Bromley absolutely pumping out the content at the moment and I'm all for it
Strange how you see quarter squats but not quarter bench or quarter curls
You can def quarter rep a bench with an arched back it’s why I always say deadlift is king of the compounds because you can’t cheat a deadlift it’s the only true measure of a man’s strength imo
@@MogMonster87 Lots of people say sumo is cheating
@@QuafShizZle I’m obviously talking conventional. Sumo is just a variation of a deadlift
We actually did block bench presses in high school football training to strengthen the lockout position for Offensive Line
@@MogMonster87That's a very bad argument for the deadlift being the best compound. Lanky skinny guys sometimes get a huge deadlift just out of (mostly) leverage. Like myself: not tall dude at all, but because I have some short ass legs and longish arms, I can't almost get in a position where the whole movement is basically a hip thrust, thus making it very easy for me compared to other compound lifts.
I spent years freaking out over squat depth. It got to the point where it actively ruined the excercise for me. I would record, freeze frame, and just completely disregard any lift I did if my depth wasn't provably below parellel. If I didn't record the lift, the PR didn't count. I have difficulty reaching below parellel. Even at my deepest, the crest of my hip goes just barely below the tip of my knees, even without weight on the bar. (I'm very duck-footed, I can literally turn my feet backwards.) See my PFP.
I started to dread squatting, because it became more about the lift looking good than about actually getting a good training stimulus. And, more importantly, enjoying my time in the gym. I would be bummed out all week if I did a set where a rep or two was a titch shallow.
Lately, I've changed my mindset. I go to squat because I enjoy it. I'm not competing. How many people can rep 405 to parallel? Sure, its more impressive to rep the same weight ATG, but lifting is all about YOUR journey. YOUR progress. As long as I'm consistently progressing, getting bigger, and enjoying my time lifting, that's all that matters to me.
Only idiots judge other men for going an inch or two above parallel. If youre only squatting an inch or two, thats a different issue.
Well said!
Well said.
I high bar ass to grass squat cause I have naturally good mobility and it’s asthetic
It also built my 30 inch quads, natural
U got 30 inch quads cuz u fat bro
Lifter A vs Lifter B was an interesting time
Well yeah, but uhhhhhh. Injury prevention of the utmost priority as a lifter gets older. You only prevent injury being strong in the deepest ranges of motion you can achieve and working your flexibility under a load
If the deep squat is done correctly, absolutely. Many people tend to lose vertical shin placement on deep squats, however, which is a fast track to patellar tendonopathy (take it from me!). Ironically, parallel box squatting was the cure for that problem.
I think, after really learning and loving both parallel and deep squats, that they both have their purpose in strength and injury prevention. I know that moving forward, I program both for the same reason as your point, which is a good one.
@@Supersmartandfunnyguy Vertical shin placment has been debunked for like a decade, please stop regurgitating old evidence, knees going over toes is completely safe if you actually work on your mobility as shown by every single weighlifter.
@@DogginsFroggins i have half a patellar tendon in my left knee and i have to be careful with knees over toes. i squat atg, narrow stance, high bar. if i go too high on volume or try to move fast in the squat, i get tendonitis. never had it in the right knee.
knees over toes is almost always safe *if* you incorporate other movements to help the tendon, lift with a slower tempo, and have near-perfect form. if you divebomb atg squats, do no isometric work (spanish squats, wall sits, the hundred other things you can do), go crazy with the volume, have bad form, or have funky hip mobility, you'll feel it. how often do you see professional oly weightlifters with a knee wrap over their patellas? pretty damn often, and they do most everything right.
so, the old method was "well i stopped going knees over toes and my pain went away that must be the problem." it was "debunked" by the above. it is safe, *if* you're smart about it. those two letters do a lot of heavy lifting. people shouldn't go crazy on those movements without knowing how to do them properly, nor should they be led to do so.
I never approach anyone at the gym to give advice except for one thing and that’s tall guys doing 3 plate quarter squats. I’m 6”3 with super long legs so I know how hard it is to start but after getting weightlifting shoes with a higher heel it changed everything.
Bouncing out of the bottom can be avoided by pausing for 1 sec but then they'd have to drop the weight even more. The bouncing lets them do more weight in full range of motion. I still think bouncing with full rom is better than half rom more weight
coming from a guy who does primarily ATG pin squat and Anderson squat variations these days...I will tell you that "bouncing" out of the bottom is actually a skill. The harder the bounce and the heavier the weight the more skill is required. Where athleticism is concerned a massive bounce off the tendons is probably the most productive way to squat in reality.
For bodybuilding, ATG squats are simply better, dude. If you can get the same stimulus with less weight on the bar, you do it. For strength, a specific ROM is more important, but in bodybuilding, you're not chasing numbers or performance. Going ATG vs parallel lets me take 20% off the bar right away, and if I'm trying to control the eccentric and keep tension at the bottom (not bouncing off my tendons), then even more.
These are the 2 factors which work best for me in squatting. 1. Do everything medium. 2. Don’t make a big fuss about it just tell yourself it’s easy no matter what you’re trying to do.
What I say to myself in my head "im the strongest man in the world" lol.
Seems to pump me up.
Yo fr, second one works wonders. I literally tell myself "lightweight" and my brain flips a switch and my confidence goes up tremendously even when performing HEAVY singles
There is no hate for Bromley, but he is full of 💩. 😂😂
ATG for muscle makes most sense, considering you're contracting the muscle from the biggest stretch, it makes sense you get the best overall contraction. Same way you do dumbbells for better chest development, or even don't stop bench past leveled elbowd to get max chest stretch.
Hi Alex, thanks for the video.
Isn't many of the things said in this video are contradicts the bench press video you published last year? (the How to Bench Press for NO Gains video).
Many of the things said here can be applied for bench press, but in that video you advocate for the "ATG" version of bench.
Cheers.
The Texas came out in that “Fives” 😂
Bromley talks sense all the time
But I don't know about this one
14:20 potential elastic energy*. obviosly every movement uses kinetic energy
"Why my squat looks like garbage. A coping video"
If the squat is below parallel, it’s a good squat
@@MHALLPowerliftingonly by powerlifting standards. Normal people have higher (lower depth)standards
@@PageandPlant4Lifepowerlifters go much deeper than 99% of people you see in the gym💀
@kahmalgarcia2765 true. But not deeper than me 😤
@@PageandPlant4Life you look like a chick and probably struggle with 2 plates
A lot of guys who bomb the squats ballistically, they wind up with a serious hip injury. If
My knees fixed themselves when i started doing deep squats.
I think the problem many of us have with partial rep squats is that we often see shallow depth because someone with subpar leg development is trying to ego lift way too much instead of reducing weight and getting full ROM. Personally, if I see a guy with huge legs doing a half squat, it doesn’t bother me at all.
They are 100 percent not overrated.
Tom Platz would argue with you, find someone with better legs than him to back you up and I’ll believe you
Genetics also play a big factor dude lmao its like me saying look at ronnie coleman and jay cutler tiny ROM lets all do that!!
Very good advice on different depths of squatting’ and doing parallel is usually the best depth
Anyone that says ATG is overrated is a cope for having weak legs and needing their hips & lower back to pretty much hip thrust the weight
Just because you mentioned it several times throughout the video.
Stretch mediated hypertrophy and training at long muscle lengths aren’t the same thing.
Stretch mediated hypertrophy is the concept of holding static stretches for long periods of time. Resulting in hypertrophy.
Training at long muscle lengths is spending more time in the stretched position. Performing lengthened partials.
As far as depth goes. Greg Nuckels has a great article on this. Quads get most stimulus around parallel. Glutes get more going deeper than that.
I don’t know if we’re talking about the same article, but last time I checked (a couple years ago in Uni), the muscle activation for the quads during a squat is highest when parallel, but muscle activation doesn’t equate to growth stimulus
@@maroc-al-helmidi Yeah I just got back to lifting after an 8 year hiatus. The previous 6 months of low bar squatting to parallel have left me lagging quads. Just started using front squats on the second day has fired my quads up a lot, fucks my shit up in a whole different way. I think they'll pick up steam quick, particularly I still have another 6 months of beginner gains.
@@maroc-al-helmidi I’d have to look back on it. I believe he was referring to a some research where they assessed cross sectional area increases, not just activation.
If you look at the most recent ACE CPT guide it covers that full range of motion supports injury prevention. Having strength at all portions of a lift enables you to decelerate safely. Respectfully injury prevention is more important than muscle size and strength combined.
My quads, glutes, and adductors saw substantial improvement in growth, and overall force production when I switched to full ROM squat. Not only that but my mobility has also been enhanced significantly. That being said I recognize the importance of partial rom squat in certain circumstances depending on goals.
I love a** to grass. I had to get rid of my ego but it was the best thing for me. never felt better, stronger, and more mobile. But I understand sport specific types of squats too
DEEP squats helps:
1) Expanding the chest;
2) Stimulating overall muscle growth;
3) Increasing Tidal Volume.
Deep squats isn't ONLY to build thigh muscles, it helps the body overall. It's TRUE that you can build thigh muscles WITHOUT squatting (e.g., Dorian Yates).
But, Dorian is a professional. For beginners, nothing -- and, I mean NOTHING -- beats deep squats for the beginner!!!!!
Thank you for the upload Brother!
With the upmost respect Sir: depth is not overrated!
Squat Depth and Muscle Activation:
Squats are popular for building strength and muscle mass in the lower body.
Research shows that squatting at different depths activates muscles differently:
Full-depth squats (140° knee flexion) engage the quads, glutes, and adductors more effectively.
Half-depth squats (90° knee flexion) activate these muscles to a lesser extent1.
Takeaway: Full-range-of-motion squats seem best for maximizing glute and adductor hypertrophy.
Strength and Squat Depth:
Strength gains are specific to the depth you train at.
If you want to improve strength at a particular depth, train there consistently.
Deep squats (full range of motion) have better carryover to shallow squats than vice versa2.
Hypertrophy and Squat Depth:
Deeper squats may be more hypertrophic for the gluteus maximus.
Squat depth beyond 90° knee flexion may not significantly enhance knee extensor hypertrophy3.
In summary, prioritize full-depth squats for glute and adductor growth, and consider your specific strength goals when choosing squat depth. Happy lifting!
P.S. you will notice that anybody can do 1/4 squats with 2x their own bodyweight with zero practise: however; you can only squat 2x your own bodyweight from FULL arse-to-ground with actually practising; if you squat from knees parallel aa 50% depth then most people can squat their own bodyweight from here no practise (or do I just know super humans?).
In summation: squat DEEP ARSE-TO-GROUND & only practise variations for specific reasons e.g. practise sticking areas; to increase end range of motion strength which will carryover to developing a frame better able to produce & handle greater reaction forces!
Peace & Love!!!
going ass to grass works for me nowadays so much that I wish I did that when I was 16 and not at old guy age
What a coincidence - these are some of the things I've been thinking about recently.
Really thought provoking. Great vid, Brom.
When i dropped the weight and focused on getting my hip crease below my knee, I started to feel my quads way more. I would go lower, but i have shit leg hip and ankle mobility due to age and the fact that I weighed nearly 400 pounds 4 years ago.
4:06 that's not a squat, that's a fucking circus act
Breaking down my squat form is something I do often. The older you get the better your squat form needs to be. I am soon to be 53 years old and I squat twice a week one day low bar squat and one day high bar squat.
Took me nearly 18months (tight Achilles) to be able to squat deep with proper form. My back issues went away. My sciatica issues went away. My D grew thicker (not longer) and lastly the guys doing half squats started noticing my deep deep depth and got very jealous. I go deep. It took time.
I really enjoyed this vlog. Subscribed! In a nut shell try everything in moderation and enjoy your journey to us 99% with average body that want to live a healthy lifestyle.
Good video.
I think mentioning how a person's build is obviously relevant to how deep they can squat, but I also think it would be worth mentioning that getting good with a deeper squat will make you a more flexible squatter, and person in general.
To me this is a big advantage of being a deep squat cultist that should be covered in addition to a hypertrophy and strength evaluation. I would consider my build on the more disadvantageous side for high bar deep squats (I'm 6'1, so not terrible), but more importantly, when I started squatting my hip and ankle mobility were trash.
Once I watched a Tom Platz clinic on TH-cam and devoted my lifting life to the Quadfather, it took a while to get into a confortable position, where I could drive my knees forward enough to sink down into a squat. Once it did though, I got into a groove: my hip flexors got strong as shit, my ankles are got more and more flexible (still improving!), and I can squat down to grab a pot from under the sink in record times.
As you mentioned, one should no doubt include other forms of squatting that focus on producing force in other positions for a more well rounded training approach, no argument there. But the advantages of a deep squat for unfucking an average desk worker's hips and ankles blow whatever strength specific adaptations that come from doing a box squat with a bunch of fucking chains and bands and chaos theory shit you showed out of the water. Just my two cents, anyway.
I like what atg does for my knees. Zero bursitis when I run now
Brother: regarding kinetic forces; in order to mitigate all kinetic reaction forces you need to cease ALL movement for at LEAST 5 seconds. There is no example of this in your clips including Zydrunas! This mean that YES he is still using kinetic action forces as are the Olympic weightlifters.
Please respect that both athletes are performing sport specific exercises & both modalities are useful for the common lifter dependent upon goals!!!
Peace & Love!!!
One thing about it deeper you go the more lower back and glute you get. Which burns out your lower back before your quads
Ultimately, it's your body. Do what you want. I started squatting atg with pause reps, and both my numbers and legs exploded. Just my 2 cents. It took a lot of mobility work to get flexible enough to do it, but I noticed a difference immediately. I have long femurs and it was challenging, but obviously not impossible.
The time under tension forces you to really learn how to brace your core. I thought I knew, but I really didn't. It also translated to my deadlifts and strict presses. I got across the board improvements from atg pause squats.
QUESTION - INJURY PREVENTION - by not going full ROM on heavy lifts, what are the implications to injury prevention? Does the benefits of less danger outweigh whatever benefits you might gain from going deep? Thanks!
Im an Atg squatter and struggle with low bar thats why ive just started to add low bar in as well
I think lowbar might be more of a technical issue but it’s good to use lowbar if it lets you move tons of weight
@@DepthHitter agree
0:51 Man, the nostalgia... Back in those days I remember buying so many of those magazines and using them for discussion/debate material with my Dad and my best friends. 😅😂
It was through doing deep squats and subsequently getting an X-Ray that I learned I have an extra vertebrae in my spine and should avoid doing deep squats.
I've no doubt they're awesome for a lot of people, but probably not worth pressuring people over it.
when I started squatting, I went up to 120kg squats but my legs were average at best.
Right now I came back to doing sports, Im squatting 65 right now, ass to grass with 1 second pause and controlled excentric.
My legs have never been bigger and more defined. I see muscle separation that has never been known to me in the past.
My quads are getting stimulated always, without failure.
Dunno about anyone else but deep squats completely changed the way I look at squats.
Show the evidence of remain silent. Any study shows massive superiority of stretch over shallow depth.
Why don't you just show evidence of the contrary to make the claim that stretch-mediated hypertrophy is overrated instead of yapping the whole time?
I thought we're past that in 2024.
It was a very long time before I accepted that my long legs, short torso body structure was not meant to squat low for quad gains. So, I lowered the weight significantly, raised my heels up.
After squatting heels up for 1 year, my legs grew from 24 to 30 inches
Its funny how the biggest and strongest guys always have the 'worst form' according to the 'internet' gurus.
Sad to see people in the comments not hearing what you're actually saying. Thanks for the video. I understood you to be saying, "Deep square aren't the only way to squat, because different squats produce different outcomes, so it depends on what your goals are." Not a complicated thesis, lots of nuance in the execution.
I go deep on squats but here is a question: Why is it frowned upon to bounce a bench press off your chest ( which it should be) but not frowned upon to bounce a squat off of your calves?
powerlifting requires a pause. generally intelligent touch and go benching as a bodybuilding/PL variation looks a lot different from bro touch and go benching
Its frowned upon to bounce your bench bc thats a shortcut to snapping your pec off the bone especially under maximal loads. "Bouncing" out of the hole in the squat is not inherently injurious
I think my main point is that you're gaining a momentum advantage on both
because it is significantly harder, but there is no conceptual difference
Because benching is a hypertrophy/numbers movement, squatting is an athletic movement.
Athletes other than powerlifters and bodybuilders have nothing to gain from benching. Benching is an unnatural movement at an arbitrary angle that doesn't occur in nature (unless specifically pushing a rock off of yourself). This is why traditional bodybuilders had small pecs, because it was seen as ugly and unnatural (still is in my opinion).
90% of general athleticism and power comes from the hips. The hips are the strongest part of the human body. A guy with giant hips and ass is probably a stronger and more athletic dude. Squats train the most important part of the human body for athleticism. And athleticism is all about momentum.
I try to do ATG because if I start getting just to parallel then ill start adding more weight and my form will suffer because if I can only go to parallel then maybe i shouldnt lift that weight at all. Instead, improve my ATG strength and slowly get there.
@13:45- that may actually be a below parallel squat. Squats can look high from that camera angle/behind the lifter.
This dude just talked for 20 minutes on a 4 minute subject. Impressive.
Who cares about max growth. Depth gives you functional strength! Real depth requires you to stretch out your whole pelvic girdle. Aside from adding plates, how about just comfortably "Asian squatting" to play with your kid? ATG combines strength and flexibility together!
I feel like ever since Brad Pitt invented metrosexual, it's been okay to squat to parallel.
ATG IS NOT NECESSARY!! However, I squat close or to ATG cuz at parallels or slightly above it , hurts my knees. I tried at parallel and it was a no go.
I'm opposite I'm physically incapable of going below parrallel , currently trying to get to parrallel I might need a knee replacement to achieve more range of motion..
@@wearetheremnants1615 wish you the best of luck primo
General fitness means general tolerances. I think everyone got super specific with the rise of raw powelifting and its unnecessary for most people.
The main counter I have to the sport range-specific approach is that in a field sport that has live opposition, a live, uncontrolled ball etc, the athlete may not always have complete control of what position they may find themselves in and need to be strong in. So I would still advise keeping *some* deeper squats in the program, sometimes.
Back in the 2000 I was training using partial range motions. I got up to using 515 x 20 reps. Then I went back to full range I was able to squat 405 x10
Amazing word density and information overload as usual.
I don't think "full" range of motion for muscle growth is important at all. Limited range of motion is probably sometimes better because the leverages change drastically in most lifts, meaning that some parts will bottleneck the weight that can be used through a full range of motion, *especially* if "strict" form is used (another gains killer). But clean ATG high bar squats are just simply about the esthetic appeal. And about mobility.
I've always thought parallel-ish with a little wiggle room. You can't apply competitive standards to a non-competitor in a permanent off season anyway. Works for me.
I feel like Bromley has misunderstood the point of the "evidence-based approach" (I hate that term, because all approaches to training are evidence-based) to hypertrophy. Partially, this falls on the science-based community: they sometimes seem to imply that the exercises and form they champion are best for everyone. But it's pretty clear that they're saying "according to the best current literature, these are the practices that will bring the most muscle growth *while minimizing systemic fatigue*" It's the "minimizing systemic fatigue" part that I think should be said louder. Of course, controlled squats to just above parallel will stimulate massive amounts of growth, but if you can get the same hypertrophic stimulus from squatting 2 plates ATG and 3 plates to just above parallel, and all you care about is hypertrophy, then the ATG squats are by far the clear choice. Things get WAY less black and white when taking strength into account. I don't think the science-based community has said nearly ANYTHING about ideal ranges of motion for strength gain.
Here’s the issue you’ve got, Bromley. I want to say first that I love your content and overall respect your work. You draw distinctions between someone who is “evidence based” vs someone who focuses on “outcomes.” The issue is that these are not philosophically different. Whether or not it’s published, drawing upon your experience, figuring out what works and what doesn’t *is* a scientific mindset, and could even be said to be primitive science, even if it doesn’t have control groups, large sample sizes, etc. This individual experience is essentially low-quality, unpublished science. Now, part of what is so tough here is that when it comes to lifting, just about anything works as long as you have decent genetics and don’t get hurt. This leads to individual lifters having overconfidence in their methods just because it worked for them.
The reality is, even if it is low quality science we are dealing with and we may not fully trust it (and we *shouldn’t*), it’s the best we have got. That’s the thing about science: aggregating experiences, controlling for confounding variables, and getting lots of data is the best we have got, even if it isn’t perfect. And none of this is to say any one person is *wrong* about what works for them. The science isn’t there yet, but that doesn’t that it’s useless or entirely invalid; it’s just in an early state relative to more mature branches of science.
I truly think we don’t disagree as much as it might sound. It seems to me that you think you disagree more with the “evidence based” community more than you actually do.
Stay strong.
Saying deep squats will get you better results than shallow squats is like saying more training will get you better raults than less training. The real question is, "what are sacrificing for it?". For most people, it's consistency and patience. They will skip the whole day od gym just because of that.
deep squats are goated because if you can squat 500lbs atg doing a parallel squat feels like cheating honestly its so much easier night and day difference
I dont find it to be night and day difference in regards to difficulty, but they almost feel like completely different exercises. A big component of the ATG squat is the big bounce you get out of the bottom, in a parallel squat you dont get that. So there is no way to estimate how much more you will parallel squat if you only stick to ATG. If you know how to execute the bounce, its possible your parallel squat will not be much bigger.
I pause in the deep position before going up. You don’t have to bounce out
@PureWonder1111 thats cool dude but we are talking about a normal ATG squat not a paused one. To maximize weight lifted you need to bounce out
I do my squats high bar, narrow stance, paused, ass to grass. Due to an injury this is now my strongest range of motion. Injury was a broken femur, torn rotator cuff, and broken wrist from a motorcycle crash, so squatting with a wide stance is now very painful on my right leg even only to parallel, and the result of the torn cuff was that even 6 months post surgery I can no longer get my shoulder into the low bar position, so high bar it is. Somehow, despite all that, I'm stronger now with high bar, narrow, ATG squats than I ever was with low bar wide stance parallels. When I eventually get back into a powerlifting meet I'll probably be one of the few people at my local meets squatting ATG high bar which is kind of cool. Still agree with the message here though, super extreme ass to grass rom isn't for everybody and isn't really super useful especially for training for powerlifting. Can be a lot more useful for bodybuilders though.
I used to do ATG but had to stop due to worsening hip impingement. Yes it does make you feel "hardcore" but it's not worth it for everyone, especially as you age. Honestly wish I had changed up sooner.
Props to alex! A family that lifts together stays together!
As long as I hit parallel I'm good
My glutes and quads also grew better when I did deeper squats. But my quads also grew very quickly from parallel depth it might not matter
Nobody wants to go ass2grass if they have to go light, until they adapt.
As a 6’8” guy with long femurs… thank you
At 6'8 he how could you not have long femurs lol
@@AlmostlessThanHuman Stipe Miocic has shorter legs than chito vera despite stipe being 20 cm taller
@@user-kk2bq9kx2n huh. Never knew that
I feel you man, but convincing yourself you shouldn't try to improve your range of motion could honestly hurt those long legs in the long run. My 6'4 friend blew out his knee because he would never squat to good depth and he complained about the same leg length problems you have. It's completely true that you have a strength disadvantage because of that height, but because of that your knees may be even more vulnerable than someone who is shorter. If you haven't already, check out the kneesovertoes guy and he has alot of stuff that really helped my knee mobility and took i away the pain that i had as a tall guy when i would do legs. Don't get blackpilled into giving up on squats.
@@conciglio5576 Exactly, if you re not competing in powerlifting its stupid to not go full range and even u do compete its still not the smartest idea
Olympic weightlifting as a sport is impossible without being able to squat deep. But there is absolutely utility in other squat depths.
I dont even go parallel. Due to work injuries to the rear of my pelvic area when i round my butt with anything over 155 lbs, i will instantly drop. So i pretty much stop around 90° at my knees. It doesnt stop me from squatting, i love squatting and feel a tiny bit self conscious about my depth.
I would say that training both atg and parallel it's valuable and find it's place. I think both offer benefits in a sense. Developing the mobility and using it just because you can of squatting all the way down it's cool if you like it or value it. However as you say isn't the only way to bend the knees fully and probably there's a better approach for that sake. I find for strength parallel to the floor it's better than atg.
it's simple if you're going to squat aquat to depth anything else doesn't count full range of motion is the only right way unless you have some type of injury there's no excuse
Im surprised to hear you say “throw science out the window”. Definitely too far.
Atg squats are sports specific, not overrated
Not really
@@idx1941 quite the rebuttal 🙄
@@LatimusChadimus well since your comment was so lacking...l didn't feel the need to expand my comment.
@@idx1941 Idiot
Powerlifting and strongman are also sports.
Well, except for competitive powerlifters and maybe strogman nobady needs to squat, though if you can I do think depth and technique should cone first, once solid progress like any other lift,if 200lb for sets of 10 is all you'll ever need I certainly think that will boost your longevity, though for muscle growth in the short to mid term it will be a very slight difference, even after years it might be only noticeable under stage conditions in direct comparison to you're twin/clone.