Mike from H&R here. There was a small batch of carbine handguards that were boxed up incorrectly. We have taken care of everyone that called into customer service about this.
Thanks for your response Mike! I figured customer service would want the B5 back. Then I figured they wouldn't be happy about the fact that I had filed on the back end to make it shorter thinking at first that this was the problem... which it was not. Because I modified it I believed that this would prevent a return/replacement. I also figured that a replacement would have the same issue anyway. I decided to cut my losses so in the trash it went! Original plan was to clone/retro an old Colt CAR15 that I had purchased in the mid-90's using at a minimum H&R receivers and furniture. Other retailers are selling the incorrect 7 hole version, B5 or AirSoft garbage. I have used quite a bit of H&R branded parts and products in the past and this was the first issue I have had. Thanks again! Pete in North Las Vegas.
Thanks! Wanted the carbine hand guard for an up and coming project and have had no issues in the past using four of the H&R A2 20" hand guards. I'll start looking again but trying to find the non-oval version NOS or like "new" isn't so easy!
@@peteregger7928 It's hard to imagine, but not many years ago, those OEM Colt hand guards & fixed carry handle upper receivers were probably tossed into the can as garbage. Now they are collectibles. It happens so often with all sorts of items.
@@Urbicide Wish I had a crystal ball back then! I had no idea how valuable some of this original stuff would become! Most of the reproduction is garbage!
I Love My 60’s Production Adventure Line 20 Round Magazines Some Of The Few Things My Dad Brought Back From Vietnam I Have 7 All Still Feed and Run Flawlessly 😀😊😀
I have a few of those but they are 30 rounders. All my old USGI stuff works great! I upgraded the 30's that had the black followers with Magpul anti-tilt. Never had much trouble with the USGI green ones but replaced those too. Still have all the original stuff. Wish I had the foresight back then to get a bunch of 20's! Can't remember all the different surplus versions I have but Parsons, Centerline, Sanchez, Okay Industries to name a few.
Back in March of 2024, I bought two sets of the H&R six hole carbine handguards. The ones I received look a lot different than yours. Mine have a very smooth and glossy finish. Yours appeared to have a duller finish and the texture was slightly pebbled in appearance. It looks like they may have switched their suppliers, possibly? Both of the sets I have were able to be installed on newer Colt 6920s. Anyway, great video. I like the level of detail you go into in your product reviews.
Thanks! I have used four of their full length 20" A2 round hand guards and have had no issues. They have a smoother finish more like my old Colts and what you're describing. Figured I would have no issues with the Carbine. Wrong!
So I’ve got a set of the shiny H&R 6 hole handguards no issues from them. I’ve also got a set of the green 6 hole handguards from B5. I had the same issue you had. I sanded both front and rear to no avail I ended up taking a razor blade and file and removing the molding marks and that did the trick. I just hope I never have to remove the handguards
Thanks for the info! The issue with mine ended up being the channel/slot that fits over the teeth of the barrel nut. When the two halves were put together the opening was not round and the channel/slot was slightly forward of where it should have been compared to the original Colt. The H&R which was actually a B5 would make contact with the sides of the barrel nut teeth before it could slide down for full engagement. I couldn't see a way to fix it other than fabricate a spreader and put the hand guards in an oven until they became round. Wasn't sure that would have worked either so in the trash they went! They should have also been up front with the fact that they were B5's and being sold at a premium. A form of dishonesty in my opinion! Thanks for watching and commenting!
Hello, Pete. I recently purchased a 20-roung gray retro magazine from Brownells, a veterans day sale for $10.99 w/free shipping. It looks exactly like your PSA mags, no visible spot welds, same contours, (I think, anyway), straight profile etc. I never realized there was so much to know about magazines! The floorplate is stamped "Brownells". I had been on Brownells notification list whenever their 20" chrome lined manganese phosphate A1 retro barrels came in stock again. Regular price $278.99, but with another sale on through today, Friday, was $261.33 including tax and S & H. I thought that was pretty good, so I have one on the way! I'd been looking at barrels from B. King's Firearms. They were on sale, at good prices, but all theirs have M4 feed ramps. The phosphate finished ones sold out fast, then the ones for $183 sold out also, but it had a QPQ finish, the others were $223-$247. They guarantee their barrels to shoot 1 MOA with match grade ammo. The phosphate barrels are chrome lined. That H & R carbine handguard you threw away was something else! Could you not have returned it and received a refund? I had previously seen you using an H & R rifle length handguard and you gave it high marks. I enjoyed your video of you installing rail covers on your M4A1. Another excellent video! That's a beautiful rifle! Thank you, Pete, for the good information, I learn so much watching you. Have a great weekend, my friend!
Thanks John! I had taken a rasp/file to the rear mounting area of the carbine handguard thinking at first it was just a length issue. I think it unlikely PSA would have taken it back that way. I would have let them know what I did to it. I have had no issues with the multiple A2 round 20" full length handguards purchased from the H&R brand and they were very good quality. The carbine I got was junk as far as fitment! I have yet to purchase or own a Nitrided barrel. Just can't do it! Lol! A handful of stainless but the rest chrome lined. Not completely anti-change but definitely resistant! Good info on the Brownells 20 rounder! I'm sure they are fine but for the Retros I'll be looking for spot welds and straight walls. I think that prices will start to come down as the new administration begins. Historically the Democrats are always fantastic firearms salesmen! Every time a Democrat opens his mouth another 10,000 AR's get sold! Lol! Thanks again John!
A piece of info to the mystery. I have an older D&H 20 rounder. It is black, curved, and spot welded. The floorplate is exactly like your Geissele marked.
If I was Geissele I don't know how happy I would be about that if not purchased from him! Do you know where your D&H with the Geissele floor plate came from?
When I got some freedom week aluminum mags from PSA back in 2019. (CA problems) The floorplates are marked PSA but the finish and cage code (Q4TQ4) match what D&H has been using for years. Willing to bet D&H makes mags for PSA. I know for sure they make mags for BCM aswell. I also got some retro 20's from Brownells that week. They make a solid, good looking GI 20 too, when you can catch them in stock.
Thanks for the info! I was thinking they were probably made by D&H even though they don't offer the straight walls themselves online. Probably a special run for PSA? Were the Brownells laser welded or spot welded? Thanks again!
I prefer 20 round magazines (and I even use a Colt 9 round magazine, which are almost flush with the magazine well) for bench shooting or prone shooting. They don't bump the ground/bench.
They didn't look as good as the Okay Industries around the feed lip areas but if they work then good enough. They are advertised as Retro by PSA H&R and that's not even close to being accurate other than the straight walls. Being D&H could explain the Geissele floor plate? Becoming increasingly disillusioned by the Retro marketplace. You would think that with all the modern manufacturing techniques and machinery that these reproduction parts would be of much better quality but sadly and especially where furniture is concerned a lot of it is complete junk! The old school guys although not perfect for the most part knew what they were doing and cared enough to get it right before they took your money. They did it well with fewer resources available! Why can't it be done as well these days? I have a few theories and opinions about that!
@@peteregger7928 I was surprised at the handguards. They looked pretty damn good until you tried putting them on the rifle. That was pretty crappy to even be selling that stuff. The floorplate on the 20 probably just got on it by accident during assy, like you mentioned.
@@davidstevens6117 The handguard did look good. Too bad dimensionally around the barrel nut it will never work! Maybe mine was a one off but I doubt it.
Did you guys see the b5 mark on the inside? These are 25 dollar b5 hand guards that psa is selling for 65 dollars or so. It is bad business and a bait and switch. I purchased h&r handguards in June and they were shiny colt type and I loved them. Ordered these and got the upcharged b5 guards. PSA stated: “We do apologize for that. It appears that there was an issue with how this product was listed at the time. Please contact Customer Service with your order number so we may resolve this issue.” It was on purpose because the b5 guards were packed in the h&r cardboard box with the bubble wrap. I wont buy anything from them anymore. Just fyi before anyone buys these guards you will get scammed
I know right! Problem has been resolved... trash can! The B5 marking had the same font and looks identical to the B5 company logo so I believe you are correct in that it was/is intentional!
How is the metal thickness on new mags compared to originals? I have some original 20s and the metal seems thicker and they feel stronger than new ones
Yes, the Okay has a thicker gauge metal which I failed to mention in the video but you can see it in some of the close ups! Thanks for mentioning that!
sadly this is correct they are selling B5 retro hand guards fifer 2x the price and misleading customers with the shiny hand guard picture on the listing
Hang onto those mags made by Okay Industries! They announced in 2023 that they were ceasing production! Serious competition by Magpul would be my guess as to the reason. When I heard that I salted some away...in my opinion its the best aluminum mag for the AR15 ever made! Never had a single problem with any "Surefeed" magazine! Sad to see another EXCELLENT item like that bite the dust! As an aside...if you ever have the opportunity to buy "Thermold" magazines... DON'T!! Every single one I bought developed broken feed lips after about 300-400 rounds fired!! Awful quality!
Thanks Alanna! I too bought a lot of the Surefeed E2 30 rounders when I found out they were going to cease production! I got them in gray, black and FDE. They were and still are some of the best metal mags! I only bought 10 of the 20 rounders for some reason. I wish I had bought more!
When Okay Industries announced they were ceasing production I was early to the party on 30 rounders! Still late on the 20 rounders but managed to grab about 10 of them. Why I didn't buy more at the time!
@@peteregger7928 I used rubbing alcohol on mine, but it was not too badly oiled up. I use carb cleaner on metal parts, not sure what it would do to plastic.
H&R can't match quality or color for shit. None of my 3 lower grey receivers match and also the same for the uppers. Uppers and lowers have to be forced together to get take down pins installed. It's all just overpriced "retro" junk in my opinion.
I could tell from videos and pictures that their gray is way off and the texture didn't seem right. The first black A2 upper and lower I purchased from H&R a good while back now wasn't too bad on color matching and anodize but the last two sets were not what I would call quality. The H&R stuff isn't cheap and they are constantly selling "Blems"! I was hoping that the H&R brand would be at least a step up from the usual PSA stuff. H&R is overpriced for what you get!
"If its going to happen, its going to happen to me", lol! I know the feeling.
I hope you're doing okay!
Me too. My old buddy Murphy!
@@Urbicide I know his brother too! Lol!
Mike from H&R here. There was a small batch of carbine handguards that were boxed up incorrectly. We have taken care of everyone that called into customer service about this.
Thanks for your response Mike! I figured customer service would want the B5 back. Then I figured they wouldn't be happy about the fact that I had filed on the back end to make it shorter thinking at first that this was the problem... which it was not. Because I modified it I believed that this would prevent a return/replacement. I also figured that a replacement would have the same issue anyway. I decided to cut my losses so in the trash it went! Original plan was to clone/retro an old Colt CAR15 that I had purchased in the mid-90's using at a minimum H&R receivers and furniture. Other retailers are selling the incorrect 7 hole version, B5 or AirSoft garbage. I have used quite a bit of H&R branded parts and products in the past and this was the first issue I have had. Thanks again! Pete in North Las Vegas.
Good video sir. I especially enjoyed the opportunity to see the Colt 16" HBAR barrel profile. Looking forward to your next video.
Thanks! Wanted the carbine hand guard for an up and coming project and have had no issues in the past using four of the H&R A2 20" hand guards. I'll start looking again but trying to find the non-oval version NOS or like "new" isn't so easy!
@@peteregger7928 It's hard to imagine, but not many years ago, those OEM Colt hand guards & fixed carry handle upper receivers were probably tossed into the can as garbage. Now they are collectibles. It happens so often with all sorts of items.
@@Urbicide Wish I had a crystal ball back then! I had no idea how valuable some of this original stuff would become! Most of the reproduction is garbage!
I Love My 60’s Production Adventure Line 20 Round Magazines Some Of The Few Things My Dad Brought Back From Vietnam I Have 7 All Still Feed and Run Flawlessly 😀😊😀
I have a few of those but they are 30 rounders. All my old USGI stuff works great! I upgraded the 30's that had the black followers with Magpul anti-tilt. Never had much trouble with the USGI green ones but replaced those too. Still have all the original stuff. Wish I had the foresight back then to get a bunch of 20's! Can't remember all the different surplus versions I have but Parsons, Centerline, Sanchez, Okay Industries to name a few.
@ I’ve Got Some Parsons 30’s Black Followers They Run Flawlessly As Well 😀
Back in March of 2024, I bought two sets of the H&R six hole carbine handguards. The ones I received look a lot different than yours. Mine have a very smooth and glossy finish. Yours appeared to have a duller finish and the texture was slightly pebbled in appearance. It looks like they may have switched their suppliers, possibly? Both of the sets I have were able to be installed on newer Colt 6920s.
Anyway, great video. I like the level of detail you go into in your product reviews.
Thanks! I have used four of their full length 20" A2 round hand guards and have had no issues. They have a smoother finish more like my old Colts and what you're describing. Figured I would have no issues with the Carbine. Wrong!
Psa scam
I miss Okay mags. Thankfully i bought a ton before the closed up shop.
Yep! Me too! Some of the best metal mags ever!
So I’ve got a set of the shiny H&R 6 hole handguards no issues from them. I’ve also got a set of the green 6 hole handguards from B5. I had the same issue you had. I sanded both front and rear to no avail I ended up taking a razor blade and file and removing the molding marks and that did the trick. I just hope I never have to remove the handguards
Thanks for the info! The issue with mine ended up being the channel/slot that fits over the teeth of the barrel nut. When the two halves were put together the opening was not round and the channel/slot was slightly forward of where it should have been compared to the original Colt. The H&R which was actually a B5 would make contact with the sides of the barrel nut teeth before it could slide down for full engagement. I couldn't see a way to fix it other than fabricate a spreader and put the hand guards in an oven until they became round. Wasn't sure that would have worked either so in the trash they went! They should have also been up front with the fact that they were B5's and being sold at a premium. A form of dishonesty in my opinion! Thanks for watching and commenting!
Hello, Pete. I recently purchased a 20-roung gray retro magazine from Brownells, a veterans day sale for $10.99 w/free shipping. It looks exactly like your PSA mags, no visible spot welds, same contours, (I think, anyway), straight profile etc. I never realized there was so much to know about magazines! The floorplate is stamped "Brownells". I had been on Brownells notification list whenever their 20" chrome lined manganese phosphate A1 retro barrels came in stock again. Regular price $278.99, but with another sale on through today, Friday, was $261.33 including tax and S & H. I thought that was pretty good, so I have one on the way! I'd been looking at barrels from B. King's Firearms. They were on sale, at good prices, but all theirs have M4 feed ramps. The phosphate finished ones sold out fast, then the ones for $183 sold out also, but it had a QPQ finish, the others were $223-$247. They guarantee their barrels to shoot 1 MOA with match grade ammo. The phosphate barrels are chrome lined. That H & R carbine handguard you threw away was something else! Could you not have returned it and received a refund? I had previously seen you using an H & R rifle length handguard and you gave it high marks. I enjoyed your video of you installing rail covers on your M4A1. Another excellent video! That's a beautiful rifle! Thank you, Pete, for the good information, I learn so much watching you. Have a great weekend, my friend!
Thanks John! I had taken a rasp/file to the rear mounting area of the carbine handguard thinking at first it was just a length issue. I think it unlikely PSA would have taken it back that way. I would have let them know what I did to it. I have had no issues with the multiple A2 round 20" full length handguards purchased from the H&R brand and they were very good quality. The carbine I got was junk as far as fitment! I have yet to purchase or own a Nitrided barrel. Just can't do it! Lol! A handful of stainless but the rest chrome lined. Not completely anti-change but definitely resistant! Good info on the Brownells 20 rounder! I'm sure they are fine but for the Retros I'll be looking for spot welds and straight walls. I think that prices will start to come down as the new administration begins. Historically the Democrats are always fantastic firearms salesmen! Every time a Democrat opens his mouth another 10,000 AR's get sold! Lol! Thanks again John!
A piece of info to the mystery. I have an older D&H 20 rounder. It is black, curved, and spot welded. The floorplate is exactly like your Geissele marked.
If I was Geissele I don't know how happy I would be about that if not purchased from him! Do you know where your D&H with the Geissele floor plate came from?
@@peteregger7928.. Mine is D&H marked, came direct from them. The floor plate shape/style is the same I meant.
When I got some freedom week aluminum mags from PSA back in 2019. (CA problems) The floorplates are marked PSA but the finish and cage code (Q4TQ4) match what D&H has been using for years. Willing to bet D&H makes mags for PSA. I know for sure they make mags for BCM aswell. I also got some retro 20's from Brownells that week. They make a solid, good looking GI 20 too, when you can catch them in stock.
Thanks for the info! I was thinking they were probably made by D&H even though they don't offer the straight walls themselves online. Probably a special run for PSA? Were the Brownells laser welded or spot welded? Thanks again!
I prefer 20 round magazines (and I even use a Colt 9 round magazine, which are almost flush with the magazine well) for bench shooting or prone shooting. They don't bump the ground/bench.
I have a crap load of 30 rounders but I always grab the 20's for practice. More ergonomic for sure!
Those 20s could be D&H. I bought some 30s from PSA a while back, and they had the laser welding on the front spine. The older ones were spot welded.
They didn't look as good as the Okay Industries around the feed lip areas but if they work then good enough. They are advertised as Retro by PSA H&R and that's not even close to being accurate other than the straight walls. Being D&H could explain the Geissele floor plate? Becoming increasingly disillusioned by the Retro marketplace. You would think that with all the modern manufacturing techniques and machinery that these reproduction parts would be of much better quality but sadly and especially where furniture is concerned a lot of it is complete junk! The old school guys although not perfect for the most part knew what they were doing and cared enough to get it right before they took your money. They did it well with fewer resources available! Why can't it be done as well these days? I have a few theories and opinions about that!
@@peteregger7928 I was surprised at the handguards. They looked pretty damn good until you tried putting them on the rifle. That was pretty crappy to even be selling that stuff. The floorplate on the 20 probably just got on it by accident during assy, like you mentioned.
@@davidstevens6117 The handguard did look good. Too bad dimensionally around the barrel nut it will never work! Maybe mine was a one off but I doubt it.
Did you guys see the b5 mark on the inside? These are 25 dollar b5 hand guards that psa is selling for 65 dollars or so. It is bad business and a bait and switch. I purchased h&r handguards in June and they were shiny colt type and I loved them. Ordered these and got the upcharged b5 guards. PSA stated: “We do apologize for that. It appears that there was an issue with how this product was listed at the time. Please contact Customer Service with your order number so we may resolve this issue.” It was on purpose because the b5 guards were packed in the h&r cardboard box with the bubble wrap. I wont buy anything from them anymore. Just fyi before anyone buys these guards you will get scammed
I know right! Problem has been resolved... trash can! The B5 marking had the same font and looks identical to the B5 company logo so I believe you are correct in that it was/is intentional!
Yeah never again very shady
How is the metal thickness on new mags compared to originals?
I have some original 20s and the metal seems thicker and they feel stronger than new ones
Yes, the Okay has a thicker gauge metal which I failed to mention in the video but you can see it in some of the close ups! Thanks for mentioning that!
sadly this is correct they are selling B5 retro hand guards fifer 2x the price and misleading customers with the shiny hand guard picture on the listing
Looks like I got bamboozled again! Lol! The Retro market is full of garbage!
Hang onto those mags made by Okay Industries! They announced in 2023 that they were ceasing production! Serious competition by Magpul would be my guess as to the reason. When I heard that I salted some away...in my opinion its the best aluminum mag for the AR15 ever made! Never had a single problem with any "Surefeed" magazine! Sad to see another EXCELLENT item like that bite the dust!
As an aside...if you ever have the opportunity to buy "Thermold" magazines... DON'T!! Every single one I bought developed broken feed lips after about 300-400 rounds fired!! Awful quality!
Thanks Alanna! I too bought a lot of the Surefeed E2 30 rounders when I found out they were going to cease production! I got them in gray, black and FDE. They were and still are some of the best metal mags! I only bought 10 of the 20 rounders for some reason. I wish I had bought more!
I’ve got a few colt 20rd I’ll trade you.
When Okay Industries announced they were ceasing production I was early to the party on 30 rounders! Still late on the 20 rounders but managed to grab about 10 of them. Why I didn't buy more at the time!
A couple coats of Rustoleum 'clear semi-gloss' spray can restore the 'glossy' appearance of older Colt handguards.
Mine have been annihilated with oil! What do you recommend to remove the oil for painting? Don't want to learn anything else the hard way! Lol!
@@peteregger7928 I used rubbing alcohol on mine, but it was not too badly oiled up. I use carb cleaner on metal parts, not sure what it would do to plastic.
I would suggest trying a good polish & a soft cloth.
@@Urbicide Well they sure could use a deep clean after 30 plus years!
Anything to do with PSA is absolute dog $hit period.
Yeah absolutely
Today it sure was! Lol!
H&R can't match quality or color for shit. None of my 3 lower grey receivers match and also the same for the uppers. Uppers and lowers have to be forced together to get take down pins installed. It's all just overpriced "retro" junk in my opinion.
I could tell from videos and pictures that their gray is way off and the texture didn't seem right. The first black A2 upper and lower I purchased from H&R a good while back now wasn't too bad on color matching and anodize but the last two sets were not what I would call quality. The H&R stuff isn't cheap and they are constantly selling "Blems"! I was hoping that the H&R brand would be at least a step up from the usual PSA stuff. H&R is overpriced for what you get!