Although I could hear subtle differences in tone, I think that you have demonstrated that the player is more important than the instrument, given a decent quality instrument. You sounded great on all of the horns.
@@ongtengkee9225 I think that you are putting too much importance on the instrument. If you give a great quality, professional instrument to a beginner to low intermediate player, it will make only a small improvement in his playing compared to what he or she can do on a student instrument.
Sound is personal but to my ears the Mark VI had a dense, warm robust resonance connecting every note to each other like hot butter. For my ears there was no comparison. The other horns were good but they all had a more mid range, treble sound, where the VI was just a warm blanket all the way up and down the octaves. Just my ears. Beauty is in the ears of the beholder. There is no right or wrong…. And He is an amazingly smooth, clean player.
Sound _is_ personal. Excellence is not so personal. Otherwise modern instruments wouldn't all be modeled on Mk VI. It's the standard for those who demand as much of themselves as their horns.
Right. You can spot the difference with a mark vi by listening to a recording posted on TH-cam, maybe using the mobile or a tablet. You should trust the reviewer (who is actually playing) or go and play the instruments yourself. The rest is Hype. I am sure that on a blind test less than 50% would spot a mark VI. Let alone a video on TH-cam.
That Ref 36 was a real suprise. It's very hard to have a "difinitive" opinion unless you hear a horn in person but that 36 had a beauty and sublty to it's sound that from here set it apart from the others.
The point is … you sound like you on every possible horn. It’s too much hype about vintage saxes. Need to consider that the vintage saxes need much more effort to maintain.
That’s very true, and it’s more true the better the player. I do believe that the main differences are experienced from behind the horn by the player. Not just the ergonomics but the aural response. That can affect the performance depending on the player.
Your mark 6 sounded the best to my ears because it had a rounder sound with the high edges smoothed off and the Yamaha custom Z was a close second because the sounds had that classic vibrato sexiness you can almost feel in your chest.
Good vid 👍I play a 85,xxx MkVI tenor and also an early Yamaha purple label. The Yam plays great, but nothing sounds like the VI. Played a Rampone at NAMM in 2020 and thought it was a really good horn.
Played a VI for 60 years. Aside from the sound, it fit my hand like no other. As if I was joined to it at birth. The sound of it and every VI I've ever heard has a softness/sweetness to it like no other. This video didn't change that fact. It sounds like no other.
Custom Z is my vote here. I would say the Reference 54 had an edge in terms of tone, but the sound and response seemed closer to the VI for me on the Custom Z. I wish a Selmer Supreme or Yanagisawa were in this comparison!
Agree. I was looking forward to a comparison of the Selmer Supreme Tenor. I have owned Selmers and Yanigasawa. I recently bought a Supreme alto and it is far and away the absolute best alto I have ever played...and I have played them all in my 57 yrs as a professional musician.
I honestly feel like any comparison video nowadays has to include the supreme, especially if the modern horns are going against the mark VI. My gut feeling is that was the original plan for this video but the Supreme tenor got sold before the video.
@@VirtuosityMusicalInstruments, I made a video at a convention comparing horns including the Supreme alto. Well, I was supposed to but someone bought the horn with a stack of cash before I could do the video. So.....not surprised. Can't keep those supreme horns in stock!
The Custom Z and Series III were virtually identical to me and were the best in class; felt like the Z was a little more robust in the top end and the III in the low end…the 36 sounded most like Trane on Crescent…the 54 was pretty close to the 36…I was getting Chris Potter vibes from the Rampone
It is hard to tell, when it's on TH-cam and I am using ear plugs, but they all sounded the same to me. A deaf man would be glad to hear any of them. They all sound nice. I have a Mark VI tenor, with all the lacquer still on it, and I am not about to change. I once had to blow a Yamaha, while I was testing a new mouthpiece, and it was fine. I have toured without my horns and was lent a Yamaha alto, and it was great. At one time, I was lent an ancient Büscher alto. It had a great, full sound, but the keywork was dreadful and it was hard to play bop on it. The 1937 Selmer Balanced Action keywork was a massive advance, especially the left little finger cluster. Recent horns all copy Selmer's layout, of course. i think the 1947 Super Action Selmer is as good as the Mark VI, and Trane played one of those until it wore out. Dex sounded great on his Conn 10M, which he used on those early Blue Note sessions. It was stolen from him and then he got a Mark VI. When i bought my Mark VI, it was just "the Selmer". That was years before all the fuss about them. There is no need to make a religious idol out of them. It's a bit like all the fuss now made about 1950s and 1960s Blue Note LPs. I was around back then, and they were just LPs. Yes, they were good, but there was no fuss. Now, they go for two grand on eBay. That is absurd, because Japanese CDs sound just as good, with no snap, crackle and pop. Nice playing, by the way. It was nice to hear the Trane piece.
1)I like your sound 2)I appreciate the fact that you played similar phrases with all the horns so we can make a substantial comparison 3)You sounded better on Reference 54 because for some reason you felt the most comfortable 4)I liked your tone the most on the Reference 36 5)The sound of Series III seemed the most locked in/in tune 6)I agree that the Yamaha is the best for the buck, but I just prefer the Selmers...
Wow! That Custom Z is such a versatile and great sounding horn. I personally think the vintage thing is overkill and Mark 6 is way overpriced. At the end of the day the comparisons are nice, but it’s the player that makes the horn sound the way it does period. I’ve been around quite a few experienced players and they could pick up the cheapest horn, throw their mouthpiece and reed on and make it sound like the best horn in the room.
Well, a good60k VI is almost impossble to equal, let alone better. But to me, the 36 and interestingly, the Rampone & Cazzane are the most interesting sounding new horns. They're all really good. No doubt about the value of the Yamaha. Or, for that matter, a Yanagisawa. But that said, a later VI (>140k) is in the same price range, and I've played some stunning 200k horns. You said it, Jon, early on. It's what one likes. You sound great on all of them-no one in their right mind would say, "Oh-that's not working." You could cut an album with any of em and I'd buy it!
Great playing Mark 6 has a clarity from high C through the palm keys that the other selmers are lacking Rampone is a great sounding horn but it really takes getting used to
Question: If Cotrane, Rollins, Brecker etc had all played Jupiter, would there still be this Selmer hype?? You get it 🤔 this guy would sound great on a Jupiter right?
I began to get serious about playing in the early 1970's, about the time that the Selmer Mark VI was coming to the end of its production run. Most people were saying the quality and consistency of the late VI's was very questionable compared to earlier VI's. People were all saying that the reputation of Selmer had gone down and that was the reason for the introduction of the Mark VII's. Now everyone goes crazy for all Mark VI's but that was not always the case.
Rampone comes across as really interesting gutsy sound. The 54 is probably closest to the mark VI, but thinner. The series III and ref 36 have a rich juicy 'nice' sound.
The ref 54 tenor sounds a lot better with the series 3 neck which according to my trip to Selmer Paris is based on a MK VI neck (not a copy but based on it).
Totally agree. To me it was so obvious. The Mark VI connected all the notes seamlessly …. The sound was warm, dense and robust. Hands down…. No comparison.
Maybe it's me and my Yamaha bias, but that Custom Z really sang in Jon's hands. I have a Yamaha Purple Logo YTS52 from ca 1992 that sounds and feels amazing. Compare to my 1929 Martin Typewriter... That old horn sounds full and deep and just sweet as honey, but the ergonomics are terrible. You really can't beat the ergonomics of a modern horn, but those old vintage horns can sure take a beating and still put out that amazing sound that's hard to beat. In Altos, I have a Yamaha ATS52 also ca 1990s, and comparing that to vintage Keilwerth 1950's Tone King... maybe because of the vintage horn's age, or lack of adjustment in such a long time, the Yamaha wins hands down... All of the sax players in my community concert band are sporting Yamaha horns. The old codger local jazz band pro guy who's main horn was a Mark VI tenor tried out my PL YTS52, and loved it so much he wanted to buy it off me. It's sentimental, I'll never sell it. I got up close and personal with the Tenor player from the Navy Cruisers band recently in Southern Maryland and checked out his gear... he was playing on a Mark VI (belongs to the Navy and he gets to bring it out and play it for free!) but his main horn is a Yamaha YTS62 PL (Yup, also a purple logo!). I hear you mention a part 2, I'm guessing with other vintage horns, can't wait to see it! Thanks for the Vidja!
> Compare to my 1929 Martin Typewriter... That old horn sounds full and deep and just sweet as honey, but the ergonomics are terrible. You really can't beat the ergonomics of a modern horn, but those old vintage horns can sure take a beating and still put out that amazing sound that's hard to beat. The ergonomic issue isn't really about ease of playing, as everyone says. It's about being responsible and serving the music. Can you play everything on this horn you could possibly play? How much harder can you work with this horn and still get results? If it were just about pursuing your own sound and concept, you would see more people with Typewriters. (I own a few myself.) But it's not just about that. It's about being part of a community of recognized excellence. You _do_ want to be recognized...
Hi Richard, as noted in the video description, we are located in Boston, MA. You can learn more about Virtuosity on our website: www.virtuosityboston.com/
The mics did not move during the recording (you can see them out of focus on the right in the wide angle). Jon stood on a mark on the ground and faced the mics when playing. While even small shifts in posture (for example) can affect tone, the actual distance between Jon and the mics is 1m, which helps minimize the effects of motion on capture vs. a closer placement. Any changes you hear are most likely down to the horn or how Jon's setup and/or familiarity allows him to interface with the horn. i.e. usually a player will choose a specific reed, mouthpiece, and ligature to match their instrument and sound concept optimally, while here we had Jon keep his setup from the VI on all horns for consistency. -Editor
Vi gives you somewhat muffled on certain notes, depending on the years and even how set-up is done. All kinds of things. Imagine how our listening environment has drastically changed thru the years since the first selmer saxophones came out.
This is a good test. Unfortunately, modern instruments have lost something, their sound is either too big or too bright. The old tool hits the target, the modern ones are nearby, but not. I really don't understand why, having all modern technologies, modern tools are so weak. The yamaha sound is falling apart, he lost to everyone, I don't understand why they don't release the old yamaha, the modern yamaha is a mistake. For example, I want to buy a new viola, but the modern sound is frustrating. P.s. I tried 54 and 82z, this sound is too big, like a whale. What for? I don't understand modern taste.
Agree the modern ones are brighter, more mid and treble. It’s all personal, but for me, nothing like the Mark VI… and maybe I haven’t heard them all. Cohn made a good sense horn.
@@juliovitolo5356 I like Conn, but I understand that this is a poor technical condition and I need to buy another case. I don't understand why saxophone manufacturers are trying to reinvent the bicycle. There is a purple yamaha, it sounds great, better than modern. There are Mkv SBA and they sound better than modern Selmer. There are old Conns, this is also a great concept. Buescher, King... Everything has already been invented, but saxophone manufacturers stubbornly ignore it. This is crazy.
I think I am favoring the Series III. I am getting one for really good price, 2K less than a new Z. The brightness can be tamed down. It's more complex sounding and they have really good intonation
No one plays Bueschers because they weren't promoted well in the '30s and '40s, and because classical players in the '70s and '80s said they couldn't play in tune without classical mouthpieces.
We actually have a (mixed) clip of Jon playing a Supreme on the same mics, in context: th-cam.com/video/rfkBIz6G7jw/w-d-xo.html (he also plays on "Selmer Jam - 5" video) The video we shot with Edmar Colon demonstrating the Supreme also uses the same mic setup as this video: th-cam.com/video/jdRj8NF3NMs/w-d-xo.html It's not quite apples to apples, but you are welcome to draw some rough conclusions. -Editor
The main difference is that your 6 has no lacquer on it unlike most of the rest. The second is the alloy used. Listening on my phone. Reference horns seem like they should be reversed in name. They all are in some respects copies of the 6 including the the one with the silver bell. Definitely not a king sound.
All the modern horns sounded like they had a hunting sock stuffed in the bell, especially in the mid-range. Selmer stopped making great horns at 235,000
Yes!! The Yamaha 82Z is the winner, these are amazing horns and beat my MVI! in (easy)playability, sound en ergonomics! The Unlacquered is the one that you want!
I haven’t played the Yamaha 82 but the 62 models are ergonomically great and the intonation is very locked in. The drawback to that versus the best vintage horns is that it’s harder to push the pitch off the center in a creative way. Would be great if you’re trying to keep a band of beginners in tune but not always the best for pros. Also your mark VI would have to be in great shape and regulation to be like a new horn. I did pick up the 82 Custom Z at a noisy trade show but couldn’t play it. Darker lacquer. It sure held and looked great. I’m a Yani fan for quality too. Finally their tenors sound great.
Very interesting. For me the VI sounded quite a bit better, tone wise, than the others. Just a much warmer, richer sound. The horn that surprised me the most was the Rampone - a really nice sound. But the real issue here, for a potential buyer, is whether they want to play through a huge number of vintage VI's (some will be good, some will be worn out, some might be just ok) until you find "The ONE". From my experience, there's just way more variation in the vintage horns than modern ones. That all said, I would never give up my Mk VI bari - it's just a magic instrument! But for a horn I don't play much, my Yamaha 61 tenor is a very, very good sax. My alto (not bad) is a weird Keilworth stencil - plays much better than it looks. So there you go
I loved the tone of your original MK VI, it has that deep mellow softness to it, but I also enjoyed the Yamaha as well, due to its brightness. Great contrast!! I play a MK VII, 1978, with an old Greg Larson mouthpiece and Fibracell 2 1/2 and have been told to have a nice tone.
Jon Bean you talented devil. I miss your artistry and inspiration. Your tone, as always, is fantastic. I also enjoyed your tone way back in our NewEngCnsrvtry days when you were on a metal piece. Also, in this video: oooh man that 5-digit Mark VI (!). I wish you health and joy and many more rapturous musical moments. hug 🫂 Dr D
I've owned 2 Mk 6 tenors. I sold the 167xxx tenor. My keeper is a similar 1955 Mk 6, 601xx. Say what you want about upkeep and maintaining a vintage sax. One blow on this horn and the mystique of a 5 digit Mk 6 is real. Thanks for sharing.
I've Sissy's liked the Custom Z.. Regardless of cost.. It has that bite i like.... Shock the Tamponi have and the Ref36.... The Mark 6 are i think over hyped... Become a babe 6 off computer girl enthusiasts. Like You're not a real player unless you have one heh... Has nothing to do with Howe good anyone is
Having the most proficient saxophonist try out different horns with the intention of assessing relative strong or weak points is quite meaningless. All saxophonist will make automatic or unconscious adjustments to embouchure to produce the sound that is typical of them.The over all effect is that all instruments tested sound more or less the same. There are two scientific methods available to arrive at the natural sound of a manufactured instrument. One relies upon the use of an artificial mouth assembly while as yet depending upon an instrumentalist to play the instrument. The other uses the mouthpiee reed combinaion that has been found to be as close as possible to what may be considered as universally suited to all or m ost instruments and enclosing this combination in a tube into which the player blows.This removes all possibility of the player compensating for instrumental short comings or strong points. Test pieces must be free of pyrotechiques and gas lighting prowess with the same test piece being used for all instruments.
Nice playing and great video. Ref. 36 seems to have less volume than the others but that classic Trane sound. Series III had something ringy going on in the upper register to me, but still good. Mark VI reigns supreme : ) It has an immediacy and response that seems hard to duplicate. Yamaha 82Z sounded good. How does the Yamaha 62 III sound? What about the Axos tenor?
HEY! THE YAMAHA CUSTOM Z HAS WAY BETTER SOUND OF RANGE THAN ALL BEFORE! IS MORE CRISP ON (E)- C 3& ALSO MORE PRECISE!! WITH GREATER INVENTIVE CAPABLE DEPTH!! ON (B)RANGE!!!...
Pro sax players doing these demos is somewhat useless because as pros they intuitively make micro adjustments to their sound without thinking about it. Therefore the saxes sound more similar (and better) than if a non-pro was playing the horn. A lot of it comes down to resistance, resonance and ergonomics none of which can be heard on a video.
Wow, just looked at the prices of some of these horns (hadn't looked for a while). Basically, except for the Yamaha, they all are approaching (or more than) 10K! If I had to buy a pro level sax these days, I'd probably just go ahead and play through the supply of VI's until I found the one I had to have. But that's just me.
I played two Mk VI, two Serie II, each one having its own sound, its own "free blowing"... I also played two Super Balanced Action and a Balanced Action (1935)... My conclusion is that even twin sisters are different, and you have to find out your own favorite one. The best for you may not be the best for another player...a matter of "love affaire"
To my ear, none of them beat the MkVI for tone. The newer horns actions are probably improved but the sounds are harsher. Nothing "feels" or sounds like a MkVI. I agree, the Yamaha Custom makes a good back up horn for the money. 🎷🎵
Interesting, but no way somebody can hear any differences, but the player might feel it. One commentator said that the best saxophone ever made is the Mark VI, that everybody is trying to copy. So we are all playing on a Mark VI.
There's a reason we carry many different brands and models of saxes- there is no one-fits-all solution for each persons needs, ergonomics, and tone concept. Even as a listener, each instrument provides a different sound which appeals to different people.
Although I could hear subtle differences in tone, I think that you have demonstrated that the player is more important than the instrument, given a decent quality instrument. You sounded great on all of the horns.
50% 50%for instrument and player
20% 80%for instrument and player
@@andreasgilgenberg5588 I'd agree with those percentages
@@ongtengkee9225 I think that you are putting too much importance on the instrument. If you give a great quality, professional instrument to a beginner to low intermediate player, it will make only a small improvement in his playing compared to what he or she can do on a student instrument.
@@gsco82 if you give a gold flute to me ,my sound will change drastically compare to my Juipiter all silver flute
Sound is personal but to my ears the Mark VI had a dense, warm robust resonance connecting every note to each other like hot butter. For my ears there was no comparison. The other horns were good but they all had a more mid range, treble sound, where the VI was just a warm blanket all the way up and down the octaves. Just my ears. Beauty is in the ears of the beholder. There is no right or wrong…. And He is an amazingly smooth, clean player.
Exactly! The vintage Selmers have that full, robust evenness throughout the range.
Sound _is_ personal. Excellence is not so personal.
Otherwise modern instruments wouldn't all be modeled on Mk VI. It's the standard for those who demand as much of themselves as their horns.
Right. You can spot the difference with a mark vi by listening to a recording posted on TH-cam, maybe using the mobile or a tablet. You should trust the reviewer (who is actually playing) or go and play the instruments yourself. The rest is Hype. I am sure that on a blind test less than 50% would spot a mark VI. Let alone a video on TH-cam.
That Ref 36 was a real suprise. It's very hard to have a "difinitive" opinion unless you hear a horn in person but that 36 had a beauty and sublty to it's sound that from here set it apart from the others.
Agreed
The point is … you sound like you on every possible horn. It’s too much hype about vintage saxes. Need to consider that the vintage saxes need much more effort to maintain.
That’s very true, and it’s more true the better the player. I do believe that the main differences are experienced from behind the horn by the player. Not just the ergonomics but the aural response. That can affect the performance depending on the player.
Of course the VI he’s familiar with sounds great, but that 36 came as a surprise!
They all sounded like you! Dare I say it, but sounded most comfortable on the Yamaha! I uave a ser 3 myself and love it.
Your mark 6 sounded the best to my ears because it had a rounder sound with the high edges smoothed off and the Yamaha custom Z was a close second because the sounds had that classic vibrato sexiness you can almost feel in your chest.
Good vid 👍I play a 85,xxx MkVI tenor and also an early Yamaha purple label. The Yam plays great, but nothing sounds like the VI. Played a Rampone at NAMM in 2020 and thought it was a really good horn.
I liked the Reference 36 the best. It was a tie for second place between the MK VI and The Yamaha Custom Z. Great video
Played a VI for 60 years. Aside from the sound, it fit my hand like no other. As if I was joined to it at birth. The sound of it and every VI I've ever heard has a softness/sweetness to it like no other. This video didn't change that fact. It sounds like no other.
Custom Z is my vote here. I would say the Reference 54 had an edge in terms of tone, but the sound and response seemed closer to the VI for me on the Custom Z. I wish a Selmer Supreme or Yanagisawa were in this comparison!
Agree. I was looking forward to a comparison of the Selmer Supreme Tenor. I have owned Selmers and Yanigasawa. I recently bought a Supreme alto and it is far and away the absolute best alto I have ever played...and I have played them all in my 57 yrs as a professional musician.
I honestly feel like any comparison video nowadays has to include the supreme, especially if the modern horns are going against the mark VI. My gut feeling is that was the original plan for this video but the Supreme tenor got sold before the video.
Virtuosity cannot confirm nor deny these allegations... but yes.
@@VirtuosityMusicalInstruments, I made a video at a convention comparing horns including the Supreme alto. Well, I was supposed to but someone bought the horn with a stack of cash before I could do the video. So.....not surprised. Can't keep those supreme horns in stock!
Same. I would've loved to also see a Yanagisawa in this mix.
The Custom Z and Series III were virtually identical to me and were the best in class; felt like the Z was a little more robust in the top end and the III in the low end…the 36 sounded most like Trane on Crescent…the 54 was pretty close to the 36…I was getting Chris Potter vibes from the Rampone
I like the Yamaha the best.
Yup! 👍
A 1955 Elkhart Martin Tenor sax will stand up to a selmer any day of the week
It is hard to tell, when it's on TH-cam and I am using ear plugs, but they all sounded the same to me. A deaf man would be glad to hear any of them. They all sound nice.
I have a Mark VI tenor, with all the lacquer still on it, and I am not about to change. I once had to blow a Yamaha, while I was testing a new mouthpiece, and it was fine. I have toured without my horns and was lent a Yamaha alto, and it was great. At one time, I was lent an ancient Büscher alto. It had a great, full sound, but the keywork was dreadful and it was hard to play bop on it. The 1937 Selmer Balanced Action keywork was a massive advance, especially the left little finger cluster. Recent horns all copy Selmer's layout, of course.
i think the 1947 Super Action Selmer is as good as the Mark VI, and Trane played one of those until it wore out.
Dex sounded great on his Conn 10M, which he used on those early Blue Note sessions. It was stolen from him and then he got a Mark VI.
When i bought my Mark VI, it was just "the Selmer". That was years before all the fuss about them. There is no need to make a religious idol out of them. It's a bit like all the fuss now made about 1950s and 1960s Blue Note LPs. I was around back then, and they were just LPs. Yes, they were good, but there was no fuss. Now, they go for two grand on eBay. That is absurd, because Japanese CDs sound just as good, with no snap, crackle and pop.
Nice playing, by the way. It was nice to hear the Trane piece.
1)I like your sound 2)I appreciate the fact that you played similar phrases with all the horns so we can make a substantial comparison 3)You sounded better on Reference 54 because for some reason you felt the most comfortable 4)I liked your tone the most on the Reference 36 5)The sound of Series III seemed the most locked in/in tune 6)I agree that the Yamaha is the best for the buck, but I just prefer the Selmers...
Wow! That Custom Z is such a versatile and great sounding horn. I personally think the vintage thing is overkill and Mark 6 is way overpriced. At the end of the day the comparisons are nice, but it’s the player that makes the horn sound the way it does period. I’ve been around quite a few experienced players and they could pick up the cheapest horn, throw their mouthpiece and reed on and make it sound like the best horn in the room.
They all sounded great. The differences were small and subject to individual taste.
Well, a good60k VI is almost impossble to equal, let alone better. But to me, the 36 and interestingly, the Rampone & Cazzane are the most interesting sounding new horns. They're all really good. No doubt about the value of the Yamaha. Or, for that matter, a Yanagisawa. But that said, a later VI (>140k) is in the same price range, and I've played some stunning 200k horns. You said it, Jon, early on. It's what one likes. You sound great on all of them-no one in their right mind would say, "Oh-that's not working." You could cut an album with any of em and I'd buy it!
Great playing
Mark 6 has a clarity from high C through the palm keys that the other selmers are lacking
Rampone is a great sounding horn but it really takes getting used to
Question: If Cotrane, Rollins, Brecker etc had all played Jupiter, would there still be this Selmer hype?? You get it 🤔 this guy would sound great on a Jupiter right?
A great question! Will have more in part II!
@@VirtuosityMusicalInstruments Of course Rollins and Trane played Selmer Balanced Action.
@@patrickgaffey8752They both played Mark VI’s in the 60s
I began to get serious about playing in the early 1970's, about the time that the Selmer Mark VI was coming to the end of its production run. Most people were saying the quality and consistency of the late VI's was very questionable compared to earlier VI's. People were all saying that the reputation of Selmer had gone down and that was the reason for the introduction of the Mark VII's. Now everyone goes crazy for all Mark VI's but that was not always the case.
Rampone comes across as really interesting gutsy sound. The 54 is probably closest to the mark VI, but thinner. The series III and ref 36 have a rich juicy 'nice' sound.
All of the horns sounded good. The Ref 36 sounded really good.
For me, the Mark VI won. It had a deeper and richer tone that I like. They all sounded great though.
Mark vi's were VERY inconsistent, and I had a bad one. I've been playing Yamaha since the late 70s, and I'll never go back to Selmer!
... Also i know you can find your preferred sound Inn either modern or vintages.. They're just different as it's the playability
I think the Reference 54 sounded closest to your MK6. Both of these horns had a sweetness to them that I didn't hear with the other horns.
My reference 54 is my favorite. I have a mark VI 59xxx, sounds great but in ergonomic and intonation the reference is better
The ref 54 tenor sounds a lot better with the series 3 neck which according to my trip to Selmer Paris is based on a MK VI neck (not a copy but based on it).
Will see what Jon thinks! Very cool!
Your VI absolutely smoked all of these. Just has way more resonance than any of the modern horns.
Totally agree. To me it was so obvious. The Mark VI connected all the notes seamlessly …. The sound was warm, dense and robust. Hands down…. No comparison.
For me...
1. Yamaha
2. Ramponi
3. Your actual VI
The others can be in any order.
That Ramponi was soooo open.
Series III had the best sound of the modern horns tested imo.
I thought the 54 was the closest but I liked the 36 the best
I love the sound from the Rampone most, second the VI. The sound from the VI is burnt in our hearing memory (-:
THIS! It's always a recall thing with sound, but side by side, we sometimes hear something different... good different!
Mouthpiece 8* and reeds Select Jazz Unfiled 3H WOW🤯
Jon was ready to Sax for his life!
@@VirtuosityMusicalInstruments definitely!!! He is a cannon
Maybe it's me and my Yamaha bias, but that Custom Z really sang in Jon's hands. I have a Yamaha Purple Logo YTS52 from ca 1992 that sounds and feels amazing. Compare to my 1929 Martin Typewriter... That old horn sounds full and deep and just sweet as honey, but the ergonomics are terrible. You really can't beat the ergonomics of a modern horn, but those old vintage horns can sure take a beating and still put out that amazing sound that's hard to beat. In Altos, I have a Yamaha ATS52 also ca 1990s, and comparing that to vintage Keilwerth 1950's Tone King... maybe because of the vintage horn's age, or lack of adjustment in such a long time, the Yamaha wins hands down... All of the sax players in my community concert band are sporting Yamaha horns. The old codger local jazz band pro guy who's main horn was a Mark VI tenor tried out my PL YTS52, and loved it so much he wanted to buy it off me. It's sentimental, I'll never sell it. I got up close and personal with the Tenor player from the Navy Cruisers band recently in Southern Maryland and checked out his gear... he was playing on a Mark VI (belongs to the Navy and he gets to bring it out and play it for free!) but his main horn is a Yamaha YTS62 PL (Yup, also a purple logo!). I hear you mention a part 2, I'm guessing with other vintage horns, can't wait to see it! Thanks for the Vidja!
> Compare to my 1929 Martin Typewriter... That old horn sounds full and deep and just sweet as honey, but the ergonomics are terrible. You really can't beat the ergonomics of a modern horn, but those old vintage horns can sure take a beating and still put out that amazing sound that's hard to beat.
The ergonomic issue isn't really about ease of playing, as everyone says. It's about being responsible and serving the music. Can you play everything on this horn you could possibly play? How much harder can you work with this horn and still get results?
If it were just about pursuing your own sound and concept, you would see more people with Typewriters. (I own a few myself.) But it's not just about that. It's about being part of a community of recognized excellence. You _do_ want to be recognized...
Ref 54
Tell us in what city and state your store is located.
Hi Richard, as noted in the video description, we are located in Boston, MA.
You can learn more about Virtuosity on our website:
www.virtuosityboston.com/
Not sure if mic placement could have changed but every horn sounded dull compared to the 6, it is much brighter and articulate sounding.
The mics did not move during the recording (you can see them out of focus on the right in the wide angle). Jon stood on a mark on the ground and faced the mics when playing. While even small shifts in posture (for example) can affect tone, the actual distance between Jon and the mics is 1m, which helps minimize the effects of motion on capture vs. a closer placement. Any changes you hear are most likely down to the horn or how Jon's setup and/or familiarity allows him to interface with the horn. i.e. usually a player will choose a specific reed, mouthpiece, and ligature to match their instrument and sound concept optimally, while here we had Jon keep his setup from the VI on all horns for consistency. -Editor
@@VirtuosityMusicalInstruments That's interesting, I wouldn't have thought there would be that much difference between them.
i have a soprano mark VI in the 58000's mint condition any idea what this is worth these days
Vi gives you somewhat muffled on certain notes, depending on the years and even how set-up is done. All kinds of things. Imagine how our listening environment has drastically changed thru the years since the first selmer saxophones came out.
Custom Z all the way!
Custom Z for me
Many good sounding sax in world , just don’t limit ears tell them Vi is best sound...I think😊
Personally I liked the Ref 36 the best followed by the Ramponni. I don’t think that particular MkVI is a great sounding example of the Mk VI line.
This is a good test. Unfortunately, modern instruments have lost something, their sound is either too big or too bright. The old tool hits the target, the modern ones are nearby, but not. I really don't understand why, having all modern technologies, modern tools are so weak. The yamaha sound is falling apart, he lost to everyone, I don't understand why they don't release the old yamaha, the modern yamaha is a mistake. For example, I want to buy a new viola, but the modern sound is frustrating.
P.s. I tried 54 and 82z, this sound is too big, like a whale. What for? I don't understand modern taste.
Agree the modern ones are brighter, more mid and treble. It’s all personal, but for me, nothing like the Mark VI… and maybe I haven’t heard them all. Cohn made a good sense horn.
@@juliovitolo5356 I like Conn, but I understand that this is a poor technical condition and I need to buy another case. I don't understand why saxophone manufacturers are trying to reinvent the bicycle. There is a purple yamaha, it sounds great, better than modern. There are Mkv SBA and they sound better than modern Selmer. There are old Conns, this is also a great concept. Buescher, King... Everything has already been invented, but saxophone manufacturers stubbornly ignore it. This is crazy.
I think I am favoring the Series III. I am getting one for really good price, 2K less than a new Z. The brightness can be tamed down. It's more complex sounding and they have really good intonation
And yet a Buescher Big B from 1942 with glued pads is just as fast and great sounding as any of those, but lighter.
Fair enough- we’ll get that on video someday, too!
No one plays Bueschers because they weren't promoted well in the '30s and '40s, and because classical players in the '70s and '80s said they couldn't play in tune without classical mouthpieces.
The only one with caracter is the Rampone & Cazzani!
The VI sounded best to me. Too bad you didn’t have a Selmer Supreme to try.
We actually have a (mixed) clip of Jon playing a Supreme on the same mics, in context: th-cam.com/video/rfkBIz6G7jw/w-d-xo.html (he also plays on "Selmer Jam - 5" video)
The video we shot with Edmar Colon demonstrating the Supreme also uses the same mic setup as this video: th-cam.com/video/jdRj8NF3NMs/w-d-xo.html
It's not quite apples to apples, but you are welcome to draw some rough conclusions. -Editor
Right!!!!
The main difference is that your 6 has no lacquer on it unlike most of the rest. The second is the alloy used. Listening on my phone. Reference horns seem like they should be reversed in name. They all are in some respects copies of the 6 including the the one with the silver bell. Definitely not a king sound.
From my listening perspective, the Mk6 sounded the best but they all sounded terrific. It’s a personal preference decision.
All the modern horns sounded like they had a hunting sock stuffed in the bell, especially in the mid-range. Selmer stopped making great horns at 235,000
Ref 36!
Mark VI! 👍
A classic!
The Mark VI best horn made, often imitated and never duplicated!!!@@VirtuosityMusicalInstruments
your question what's the best tenor saxophone ? Conn 10M easy :-)
Compare to the Balanced Action.
We'll have that in part II!
P-Mauriat is a joke like Cannonball is
What's pitty you didn't check Yanagisawa...
Thanks for the suggestion! We didn't have any in at the time, but we'd be happy to get Jon back with a fresh wall of horns to try!
All the saxophones sound great, but the MK VI is king.
👑!
It opens doors. It says you are not a flake, but a competitive player who does things the way they ought to be done.
If you lived with that Yamaha for a few weeks, I’m guessing you would sell your VI, pay for the Yamaha, and start a college fund for your kids!
Yes!! The Yamaha 82Z is the winner, these are amazing horns and beat my MVI! in (easy)playability, sound en ergonomics! The Unlacquered is the one that you want!
I haven’t played the Yamaha 82 but the 62 models are ergonomically great and the intonation is very locked in. The drawback to that versus the best vintage horns is that it’s harder to push the pitch off the center in a creative way. Would be great if you’re trying to keep a band of beginners in tune but not always the best for pros. Also your mark VI would have to be in great shape and regulation to be like a new horn. I did pick up the 82 Custom Z at a noisy trade show but couldn’t play it. Darker lacquer. It sure held and looked great. I’m a Yani fan for quality too. Finally their tenors sound great.
Very interesting. For me the VI sounded quite a bit better, tone wise, than the others. Just a much warmer, richer sound. The horn that surprised me the most was the Rampone - a really nice sound. But the real issue here, for a potential buyer, is whether they want to play through a huge number of vintage VI's (some will be good, some will be worn out, some might be just ok) until you find "The ONE". From my experience, there's just way more variation in the vintage horns than modern ones. That all said, I would never give up my Mk VI bari - it's just a magic instrument! But for a horn I don't play much, my Yamaha 61 tenor is a very, very good sax. My alto (not bad) is a weird Keilworth stencil - plays much better than it looks. So there you go
You sound most comfortable on your mark vi.
I loved the tone of your original MK VI, it has that deep mellow softness to it, but I also enjoyed the Yamaha as well, due to its brightness. Great contrast!! I play a MK VII, 1978, with an old Greg Larson mouthpiece and Fibracell 2 1/2 and have been told to have a nice tone.
All great horns, it’s a personal choice for sure and what feels the best on the player’s hand
マウスピースやリードの音がほとんどで、楽器の違いがあまり分からなかった。
まぁそれも真実。
Ref 54 the best. I wish you'd played a SA80. This is what I have and I seem to be one of very few.
thanks for the demo.
I also have a SA80 (not SA80 II) and I always wonder what switching might offer me.
Jon Bean you talented devil.
I miss your artistry and inspiration.
Your tone, as always, is fantastic.
I also enjoyed your tone way back in our NewEngCnsrvtry days when you were on a metal piece.
Also, in this video:
oooh man that 5-digit Mark VI (!).
I wish you health and joy
and many more rapturous musical moments.
hug 🫂
Dr D
I've owned 2 Mk 6 tenors. I sold the 167xxx tenor. My keeper is a similar 1955 Mk 6, 601xx. Say what you want about upkeep and maintaining a vintage sax. One blow on this horn and the mystique of a 5 digit Mk 6 is real. Thanks for sharing.
I've Sissy's liked the Custom Z.. Regardless of cost.. It has that bite i like.... Shock the Tamponi have and the Ref36.... The Mark 6 are i think over hyped... Become a babe 6 off computer girl enthusiasts. Like You're not a real player unless you have one heh... Has nothing to do with Howe good anyone is
Having the most proficient saxophonist try out different horns with the intention of assessing relative strong or weak points is quite meaningless. All saxophonist will make automatic or unconscious adjustments to embouchure to produce the sound that is typical of them.The over all effect is that all instruments tested sound more or less the same. There are two scientific methods available to arrive at the natural sound of a manufactured instrument. One relies upon the use of an artificial mouth assembly while as yet depending upon an instrumentalist to play the instrument. The other uses the mouthpiee reed combinaion that has been found to be as close as possible to what may be considered as universally suited to all or m ost instruments and enclosing this combination in a tube into which the player blows.This removes all possibility of the player compensating for instrumental short comings or strong points. Test pieces must be free of pyrotechiques and gas lighting prowess with the same test piece being used for all instruments.
I think we saw that Black Mirror episode!
Nice playing and great video. Ref. 36 seems to have less volume than the others but that classic Trane sound. Series III had something ringy going on in the upper register to me, but still good. Mark VI reigns supreme : ) It has an immediacy and response that seems hard to duplicate. Yamaha 82Z sounded good. How does the Yamaha 62 III sound? What about the Axos tenor?
We'll see if Jon wants to make another appearance and get us that info! Both the 62 III and Axos have nice qualities that are worth a separate video!
Every 36 I’ve played required a lot of air like an SBA, 10M, or Super 20 but once you put the right amount in boy is the tone buttery smooth.
HEY! THE YAMAHA CUSTOM Z HAS WAY BETTER SOUND OF RANGE THAN ALL BEFORE! IS MORE CRISP ON (E)- C 3& ALSO MORE PRECISE!! WITH GREATER INVENTIVE CAPABLE DEPTH!! ON (B)RANGE!!!...
Yamaha sound like between vintage and modern!
The 54 sounds dull and stuffy.
They all sound great.. still prefer the VI tone wise. How about posting a vid comparing your VI to Yani's?
Thanks for the suggestion!
Selmer Series III & Rampone Cazani sound very close to Mark VI !!!!!!! By the way,you sound great on all of them!!
I have a YTS 82-ZCustom !¡! ...but ...Reference 36 made me sigh!>
The Selmers have a sound we've grown up listening to!
Liked the Rampone the most, had the sweetest sound.
I totally agree
Pro sax players doing these demos is somewhat useless because as pros they intuitively make micro adjustments to their sound without thinking about it. Therefore the saxes sound more similar (and better) than if a non-pro was playing the horn. A lot of it comes down to resistance, resonance and ergonomics none of which can be heard on a video.
If you want to experience those things for yourself, you can always stop by our shop in Boston and try most of these models out in person. :)
The vintage "The Martin Tenor" which I have performed with since 1965 I feel will stand up to any Selmer saxophone out there
Will have The Martin in part II!
You're dreaming 😅
You're dreaming 🎉😢
Nah @@JosephSalinas-r4r
Wow, just looked at the prices of some of these horns (hadn't looked for a while). Basically, except for the Yamaha, they all are approaching (or more than) 10K! If I had to buy a pro level sax these days, I'd probably just go ahead and play through the supply of VI's until I found the one I had to have. But that's just me.
I played two Mk VI, two Serie II, each one having its own sound, its own "free blowing"...
I also played two Super Balanced Action and a Balanced Action (1935)...
My conclusion is that even twin sisters are different, and you have to find out your own favorite one. The best for you may not be the best for another player...a matter of "love affaire"
To my ear, none of them beat the MkVI for tone. The newer horns actions are probably improved but the sounds are harsher. Nothing "feels" or sounds like a MkVI. I agree, the Yamaha Custom makes a good back up horn for the money. 🎷🎵
Interesting, but no way somebody can hear any differences, but the player might feel it. One commentator said that the best saxophone ever made is the Mark VI, that everybody is trying to copy. So we are all playing on a Mark VI.
They all sound cool. None IMO compare to you VI though - I have a 61,000 series tenor - very similar to yours
Newer horns are probably more consistent from one to another because if tighter tolerances held in modern manufacturing processes.
What's the name of the neck strap you use?
Love the “Crescent” quotes…
#1 Mark VI by far #2 Z #3 54
Love the sultry sound Jon Bean gets from the Selmers, but not the Yamaha. Why is that?
There's a reason we carry many different brands and models of saxes- there is no one-fits-all solution for each persons needs, ergonomics, and tone concept. Even as a listener, each instrument provides a different sound which appeals to different people.
I’m a trumpet player, so I don’t know anything, but the Selmer VI is just a bigger classic tenor sound. IMHO. Great playing!
No MarkVII???🎷
Will have it in part II!
That’s what I play
That's what I sold 😮😅
They all sound great but I do not like vintage horns at all. I personally play on a cannonball horn and will def scoop up an ishimori tenor very soon
Awesome!