If you are this hurt by episode six, just wait for the end of the season. Then imagine that The Wheel of Time is your favourite book series, and you’ve been reading and re-reading these books for over 25 years….
@@thezerowulf2046 as a whole series reader nd this being one of my fav series. I am still looking forward to season 2. For them to come back even a little on track. To write better at least. Even though I m so aghast by season 1. Coz. I know. There is no other way my friends would ever get to experience this series. They don't read books. Or can't read such huge series. So I am praying they have some faithful semblance to source material in some time. But o well. Who am I kidding.
I'm sorry, folks. This was long... mainly because I was exhausted and unenthusiastic about this episode. The pressure is on to be more concise, now, though, because I'm marathoning the final two episodes reviews. Watch as I review... I think. I dunno. I'm gonna try that for episode 7 and see if it works well enough to continue for episode 8.
This was the last episode for me. It took me about 3 days to get through this one by watching in15-20 min intervals before I asked myself why in the hell was I torturing myself. There was enough content on TH-cam that solidified my decision to abandon the show. The writers and producers are so arrogant to believe they can do better than Robert Jordan!!
It’s hilarious how the show runner said he did not have enough time to fit in everything from the book, but the past few episodes have been comprised mainly of made up content. It just shows that the people making this just wanted to make their own fantasy show while banking off of a popular ip. Unfortunately, that seems to be a trend in many modern adaptations, as The Witcher and Halo shows suffer from the exact same fundamental issue, being that the writers don’t actually care for the source material.
They are on video saying that they think they can do better than Robert Jordan, and they are out to "improve" the source material. Liars and hypocrites, just trying to get negative publicity as they gaslight the book fans whilst ramping up their ESG score. I have a theory that the showrunners actually fancy themselves as Forsaken, and are trying to re-weave the pattern by employing plot-balefire to eliminate entire characters who are integral to the books. Then they use compulsion to subvert every main character into a perversion of what R.J. intended. But let me tell you how I really feel! As I've said in many places about quite a few productions lately- These people stand on the shoulders of giants, only to piss on their graves.
there is a great C.S. Lewis quote about reading friendships as lovers it goes something like "Those who can not conceive Friendship as a substantive love but only as a disguise or elaboration of Eros reveal the fact that they themselves have never had a true friend"
True, and I love this quote, but the issue with the show is a political agenda. On the WOT FB page there was a poll as to what was members’ favorite changes from the books. A few dozen folks responded and the comments were overwhelmingly around 2 items: 1) the reduction of the gender binary in the power and reincarnation to be more inclusive of trans and non-binary viewers and 2) the overt gay relationship between Moiraine and Siuan. These people don’t watch with a critical eye. They see some gay banging and their brains become fuzzy and the dialogue is non existent. To them the story is subordinate to these political issues and not vice versa. It’s literally fan fiction. And before anyone says I’m “homophobic”. I loved the Loras/Renly relationship in GoT. It was appropriate in the books and was adapted very well by HBO. I would have been super pissed if they made them straight in the tv show.
Great quote, I'd never heard it before. Reminds me very much of one of the dumbest arguments I've ever had in the internet. The Tolkien Society had a bunch of lectures, including one talking about the "queer relationship between Sam & Frodo". This was posted on a LOTR forum. People gave me shit because I said they weren't gay, they just had a deep friendship. And that it was clearly based or JRRT's experiences in the war. Sam & Frodo are basically war buddies. Most people kept insisting they were gay, I felt like i was losing my mind. But your quote explains that perfectly I think. I do feel bad for people who don't have a true friend, must be a hard way to get through life.
Oh my gosh! 😂 it took me until a full minute after the ramble to stop laughing. That was so good! And honestly it highlighted how they couldn't even get the little things right in throw away lines. It also highlighted how a super thorough review would be many hours long. This show just suffers from everything big picture all the way down to the details. And most of it is due to horrible dialogue.
I'm so glad people liked this part... which I almost cut out because I wasn't sure if it was funny. I've actually been corrected by some other commenters. There totally are freshwater puffer fish. But the point is this... I wasn't sure which was the case, and if I was editing this script, I would have made sure to find out before approving. For so much of these episodes, I get the feeling the editors of these scripts (if there are any) don't really pay attention to what the characters are saying. They should be criticizing and second guessing every line, so as to make sure it is as perfect as possible. Maybe they are just editing for punctuation.
I'm just glad to see another non-fan professional's opinion of the TV show, given the constant backlash against the fans of the books for disliking the series, chalking it all up to just wanting a more accurate adaptation... there's SO MUCH MORE wrong with the series than the quality and accuracy of adaptation.
No the Rafesworn series lovers say is Bookcloaks want a word for word retelling of the books to the show. That's the strawman argument they keep using.
Of all changes the complete destruction of Mat is what angers me the most. Mat is the most brave of all of them. He is the ONE, and only one that puts himself in absurd dangers for completely selfless reasons almost every time he appears. He wants to avoid confrontatiosn but he NEVER leaves his friends unattended.
I get the feeling that Hollywood writers have nevered matured beyond a high-school mentality and now they're basically trying to write adults without having any idea of what a mature adult looks like.
One huge problem with the series is that they imagine that SO many things that happened "off screen" for a reason in the books, NEED to have time on screen in the show, which takes time away from character development that desperately needs it in such a short season of TV. It's like, they're patting themselves on the back for bringing things to screen that we never see: Logain's capture, Siuan's childhood, etc. But we did NOT need those things. We needed things like Rand's father telling him he's not his father. We needed Lan and Thom teaching the Emond's Fielders. Instead we got crap.
Yeah they gave her elaidas actions from the book. I would say they were making Siuan a villain but the context is she’s heroic so I guess that means they though elaida was a hero in the book. Of course that par for the course with modern Hollywood. I see so many examples of heroes acting villainous
**SPOILERS** Even though the dialog in the show is horrid, I remember Siuan driving the Aes Sedai like the crew of a ship, belittling and berating them. Granted it was more done off page, but the Aes Sedai do make the odd comment in book 2 amongst themselves. And even later on Siuan always gets herself in hot water snapping and talking down to people when she’s no longer powerful.
@@theashrook6129Exactly, the Amyrllin is a tyrant. The Aes Sedai are a political organization, posing as a charity. A weird mix of compassionate and tyrannical is a pretty accurate vibe for the organization.
What even was the infraction that got moiraine booted? It's pretty unclear to me. A sister of that power woukd have to be a real piece of shit to get perma-dumped. At worst she would do a penance which would be the pretext for freedom. The entire white tower plot was stupid. Even liandrin is totally stupid. Elaida is the main villain, not bumble McGee liandrin. She is a no count. They would have been much better served going to caemlyn and following the books. You could have done that all in one episode
I care much more about seeing your next installment than any of season 2 because your journey (the genre is tragedy, btw) is more compelling than anything they did in the season 1
So a poor young girl arriving alone and penniless at the gates of Tar Valon can ascend all the way to the Amyrlin Seat, if she has the spark, the talent and works hard. Truly inspiring. Rather than being sent away, as Badly Written Nynaeve claimed just a couple of episodes ago, and wasn't even corrected by Poorly Adapted Moiraine. Almost as if the two scenes were written by two different people, each of whom had no idea what the other was doing, with no-one overseeing their work. And maybe one of them had read one of the books. Keep up the good work! Truly, your videos are far more entertaining than the show.
To be more fair to the screenwriters than they probably deserve, Siuan's natural ability was far greater than that of the Wisdom who started training Nynaeve. Also, the Tower has long imposed an arbitrary age limit beyond which it will not enroll new Novices no matter their strength. Nynaeve is already pushing that limit. If her mentor waited to come to the tower until she was a couple years older, then she would have been rejected even if her talent was the greatest since before the Breaking of the World. In a later book we will meet a grandmother who is stronger than Nynaeve but was rejected by the tower until Egwene made them change their rules.
@magister343 good points. In the show I think that Nynaeve said her mentor was a girl when she went to Tar Valon, and that she was specifically turned away for being poor. Moiraine didn't refute either point. I could be wrong, and I'm not going to watch it again to check. The Rings of Power was always going to be dodgy fan fiction, but this show really shouldn't be.
Well, it is sometimes sort of a boarding school for rich brats. A lot of wealthy nobles send their daughters there to study as novices, but they very rarely make it as far as Accepted. Most don't have nearly enough strength in the power for them to be admitted as Novices if not for their political connections. The most noteworthy case of this is the tradition where very Daughter-Heirs of Andor are always sent to study in the Tower, and are even granted the honor of a great serpent ring even if they leave without becoming Accepted. Elayne's mother is about as weak in the power as it is possible to be while still be capable of channeling anything at all, but she did learn the basics of how to channel as a Novice and did get a ring even though there was absolutely no chance she would be allowed to step through the arches. The Tower is more willing to accept a very powerful pauper than a rich girl of little ability, but among those who can barely channel they definitely favor the rich and powerful. Maybe the Wisdom before Nynaeve was both poor and weak in the power. @@carlbumpkin7963
I love this series because it perfectly follows the logical thought processes of any rational person reading/having read the books and watching the show. You start off thinking ok, let's check this out. That quickly turns into wait, why did they change that? Which almost instantly morphs into why did they change that into such a stupid thing? Then suddenly by episode three you're well past spending half your time thinking of obvious ways the show could have been significantly better before easing into episode six territory where you're just spending the entire time wondering if the entire thing is a joke made by people who hate the book and people in general because the writing/decisions aren't just bad but somehow entirely incoherent. Honestly I'm more entertained watching your reactions to the show than I was by the show itself. EDITED AGAIN: It's a small spoiler if you haven't caught up to the way gate in the books but the Ogiers use a form of magic called treesinging, (I think that's the name), during the creation of the waygate but it doesn't use any form of magic to open later. Thanks to Jeremy for the reminder since I originally mixed that up :)
@@nightmarishcompositions4536 A lot of them weren't nearly as bad as they started to become since the YA era of Hollywood started with Hunger Games. Though clearly the events of 2017 caused them to just start jumping the shark entirely into fcuk you audience territory - it's like the showrunners WANT it to get cancelled.
One more thing about the Liandrin confrontation with Moiraine and the Amyrlin: don't forget the episode 1 cold open: Moiraine had a Trump card against the reds: she witnessed an extra-judicial gentling of ANOTHER man just before episode 1 events start... She had the perfect Uno Reverse card and forgot about it lol
Never made this connection. Instead they had Moiraine say she new about some sort of "man on the side" Liandrin had, which I guess would be devastating to the Reds. Rafe and the writers are so damned juvenile, unbelievable!
I think 7 was better than 6 but 8, omg the ending on 8 that sets up the Seanchan - I just can’t imagine a worse way to do that, that was just the cake topper on that entire deeply unsatisfying episode. And that with Ishmael being well acted. But the entire battle of the gap, Loial, Perrin, Moiraine just so many things fell apart.
@@jasonbrown9142 True, although the Ways were very disappointing imo. Since we now have therapy wind instead of horror wind & Nyneave is uber Mary Sue. The YA love triangle was pretty sad as well, but, I concur, 7 was better than 5 and 6. Only set us up for more pain when it came to ep 8 though...
It's difficult to point out how you are right without spoilers. Your point about questioning the portal thing is a big point. Let's just say that no Aes Sedai in the books can do this. It will be addressed at a later time in an important way in the books, but now that cannot happen in the show. This is really the episode that the show goes off the rails in a major way. Prior to this, it could have been fixed. By the end of the season, easily 60-80% of what happens in the future books has to be rewritten.
@@marcdunlap7414 this may not be the dream world, there are also pocket dimensions in WOT, that contain a building or a small piece of land. The real problem is they don’t make it clear what’s going on in this scene.
Somebody here loosing mind I see. Just be prepared for the last two episodes. You will need every strength. But we apreciate every video on WoT you make.
Overconfidence meets incompetence. I don't think there is really malice because many of the core ideas aren't bad if you recognize what they likely wanted to do with them - but the execution is simply so horrible that it doesn't work.
@@f.carasind4188when you force your ideological ideas into a pre-existing world I will call it malice. Especially since those ideas are in the world, just not in the on-the-nose way that is understandable for the showrunners
Never attribute to malice that can be pure stupidity. Pretty sure it’s just a love of their own ideas, without consideration for what they’re doing to the material or ideas. Like conversations with someone who has no respect for any idea not their own.
Spoilers if you want a quick run down of how Suian and Moraine's relationship develop after book 2 You're done! Congratulations. You've read the entirity of the scenes that they share together in all 14 of the main books.
@@praetorxyn It is a prequel. It provides context to their relationship but it remains static for 14 books from where it is established in book 2 as they go on their respective character journeys.
@@galetempus1979 Yes. The only context comes from the prequel. I think the whole romantic relationship in the show was based on the “pillow friends” line, but I can’t remember which book that was mentioned in.
@@praetorxyn I believe it was mentioned by an Aes Sedai in either books 2 or 3. Either way, it's common for "pillow-friends" to drift apart in series and they make it clear they're just friends 18 or so years after NS. That being said, it actually took me a second read through to catch Moraine's book romance being set up.
@@galetempus1979 Same. But I’ve read it four times and that romance still doesn’t make much sense to me. It makes sense once she gives a certain someone the letter, but I don’t know why she gave him the letter.
The muppet splice was great. lol. I do like how your episode reviews get longer and longer every time. Definitely capturing the frustration from all of the book readers watching the show :D
So the very beginning, it's 100% supposed to be Siuan. They give a little teaser about the Stone of Tear in the background, letting us know exactly where they are. It's an immense distance from Tear to Tar Valon. This scenario is analogous to a father in Dallas kicking his kid out of the house and telling them to figure out how to get to Philadelphia. Absolutely absurd. Thank you for this video series, it's so refreshing to have an objective perspective comparing the two pieces of media.
@@janaanklassen87 Which took anyone who could channel and sent them to Tar Valon because they did not want anything to do with the Aes Sedai (not just in the city).
@@tapsmaps4706 well the city plays a role since she channeled to defend herself against sexual assault. Also you wouldn't see many ships outside a major port.
@@janaanklassen87 Maybe it played a role in getting her sent to Tar Valon faster, but even if that happened in a less populated area, she would have still been sent there because Tear did not like anyone who could channel being around them.
My favorite line of this episode was when Siuan's dad says 'I can no more do that than a fish can touch the moon'. So inspiring! reminds me of rings of power
Ironically, this ridiculous opening with Siuan explicitly contradicts what Nynaeve said her Wisdom mentor went through. Siuan is a peasant girl with a weird accent (in the books, not this absolute tripe) ... yet the Aes Sedai put her in charge of them! As to your initial thought about the show, frankly I lean more toward the showrunners not even liking the source material at all. That seems to better explain some of the blatant maliciousness toward some of the characters (read: every single male character). Also, Mat's connection to the Dagger is not severed in the early part of Book 2. They were going to do it, but, as you stated, the Dagger is stolen. That's why Mat has to go after it because not only can he handle it relatively safely, he needs it so the Aes Sedai can properly sever the connection. But the showrunners think they're smarter than they are (presuming they're not actively malicious).
The contradiction of itself isn't a bad thing; the failure is that it's never addressed again, and this episode is about as long as this particular, somewhat pointless thread should have been left hanging. And there are a bunch of options to resolve it - when Moiraine and Nynaeve arrive at the Tower, they could see someone sent away for being too old to enter the novice book. Moiraine could have pried the name out of Nynaeve, and when she and Egwene get their audience with the Amyrlin Seat, she could show Nynaeve the paperwork showing her mentor had enrolled, and been put out for not being strong enough for the Accepted test, or refusing/failing it 3 times. Or maybe Rand and Mat (or Egwene and Perrin) could have met someone just outside Tar Valon who had wanted to go to the Tower, and bottled it upon seeing the "grandest city in the world".
Indeed, it COULD be resolved, but I think anyone with a hint of critical thinking and awareness will suspect that the writers wanted to include some "class consciousness" stuff in the story and likely don't understand that Jordan already covers those themes *excellently* through MANY plot threads. They ALWAYS think they can do better, and the way they think they can do better is ALWAYS to remove the allegory and simply state it directly.@@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t
"I've read the book so I know what happens at the end" I laughed when you said that because when you watch the last episode you'll be wondering what book you actually read 😅
3 times. No wonder you are tired and depressed. There are still some HUGE changes to the books about to happen so brace yourself. Thank you for taking on this project. It's been a wild ride so far.
The reason the aes sedai have been so lackluster in the show is due to a few reasons. One, the show runners must think that the audience wants obvious and clear drama, rather than intelligent and subtle maneuvering. Second as the show runners have departed so far from the source material they are relying on their own writing ability and thus far writing something elegant, intelligent, and subtle appears to be outside the scope of their abilities.
I fully understand your frustration with the show because it pretty closely mirrors my own when I was watching season one. This is part of the reason why I enjoy watching your reviews/commentary on them (to see that I wasn't the only one feeling those things and hear many of my thoughts more clearly explained/defined than I ever made them). I would miss your videos on this topic if you stopped making them, but I could not say I didn't understand why you didn't think they were worth the time anymore.
Undermining the need for Warders is, I believe, exactly the intention for the showrunners. They mess with Lan and his character and accomplishments on a number of occasions, with the general theme seeming to be the aggrandizement of Moiraine. Moiraine gets wounded fighting the Trollocs on the show, which, in the books, is something that Lan would see as a failure on his part. Lan does not get to rescue Perrin & Egwene from the Children of the Light. He is the one who makes the decision to take the group into Shadar Logoth, and Moiraine even revives for a moment to criticize his decision, so the writers can make it abundantly clear that she is Not To Blame for the events in Shadar Logoth (unlike the books, where she takes them in and does not warn them of any of the dangers, but instead talks up the safety of the place so the kids take her at her word and go wandering around). There is never a scene in the books, where Lan is the subject of general hilarity and mockery, such as at the Warder's campfire. The writers of the adaptation have a clear agenda of promoting their own warped notions of feminism, while completely missing the feminist points in the books. For instance, in the books, women are almost never warriors. Nynaeve does not draw knives on people, or engage in hand to hand combat. It's not explicit, but as you get into the series, if you are paying attention, you start to realize it's because combat is not seen as heroic and badass, but as something beneath the dignity of women. Combat is not synonymous with empowerment in the books, because military force is not the ultimate power in that world, the One Power is. So even though in the books, clocks are in sufficiently widespread use that an inn for a small village in a remote farming district has one, and printing presses are in wide enough use that there is near-universal literacy, even in the small farming village, and that same inn has a whole bookcase full of printed books, there are no gunpowder weapons of any kind. Gunpowder showed up in Western Europe in the 13th century, whereas Guttenberg invented the printing press in the middle of the 15th century, which is also when small clocks were invented. Military technology is 200 years behind in this world! Because military power is devalued, thanks to Aes Sedai dominating the culture. They also have heavily armored warriors on horses, but they don't have the concept of knighthood. Gareth Bryne is a national hero in Andor, but completely subservient to the queen who is the first of her dynasty, where in the real world, he'd be the tail that wags the dog in that regime, at the very least. Another issue is that on the show, they use the word "bastard" in a pejorative context, on repeated occasions. *The word bastard does not appear at all in **_any_** Wheel of Time book* because it is a female-dominated society, and reproduction is not governed by patriarchal rules, even if children seem to mostly take their father's names. In all of Rand's concerns and thoughts about the reveal of his parentage in the books, from his father's confession that he found him, it never once crosses his mind that he was born out of wedlock, as the Prophecies say "born of a Maiden wedded to no man." It is later indicated (by an absence of any discussion of the issue) that noble women and queens can have children without being married, while suffering no fallout or ruinous scandal and can pass on their titles to such children without question. With the fact that combat is still male-coded in the setting, while not being exalted or glamorized, and that motherhood is an institution independent of societal controls or authorization, we have examples of very realistic and thoughtful feminist world-building, and the show ignores both these points to make Nynaeve a knife-happy psycho and thinks they are empowering her. They made Perrin's wife a competent fighter, and showed Daise Congar taking down a Trolloc with a pitchfork, they had Dana the Dumpy Darkfriend brandishing Rand's sword, while two tall, healthy, fit and young males run in terror from her. But what they did not do, which the books did, is show Nynaeve's political power in Emond's Field, by introducing Daise Congar speaking up for the Wisdom and threatening her husband with real consequences if he tries to interfere with the business of the Women's Circle. This demonstrates that Nynaeve has a constituency and power and influence independent of the male power structure. On the show, Daise is introduced as a sloppy drunk. Because it's cool when the girls can pound back the liquor like manly dudes, amiright? The book demonstrates Nynaeve's power in a dozen little ways, such as showing that the more sensible and capable members of the male leadership respect her authority, even when she is insulting them, showing that Moiraine leaps to rectify the damage she does to Nynaeve's reputation by calling her child before realizing that she is the Wisdom, having the villagers concerned that despite the widespread anticipation for the gleeman, Nynaeve could unilaterally cancel his performance if he offends her. Nynaeve in the books can barge in on the Village Council as they interrogate the peddler. Nynaeve on the show performs a nonsensical coming of age ceremony, scrubs rocks in a sacred pool which has zero significance established in the world-building, is not allowed to marry ... and that's it. The show even bypasses opportunities to give her a leadership function, such as by leading the ceremony of prayers for the dead, when they light the lanterns. They went through the trouble of shooting Zoe Robbins performing the ceremony, but doing it alone, instead of leading the village in prayers for their dead, which is totally a thing the Wisdom would do. They have Egwene's mother making a speech to start the festivities, while Nynaeve is shown in that location, but, again, not taking a leading role. I suspect it is because on the show, Marin al'Vere is the Mayor instead of her husband, making this yet another way in which the show goes for superficial feminist gestures (a woman mayor! O.M.G!) while completely missing that the women have a power structure all their own already established, and that Nynaeve is the equal of the mayor. They are so busy giving Moiraine all the good lines and putting her front and center (the actress has a producer credit, I note) that they excise Egwene and Nynaeve's agency. Where Egwene in the books observed the boys' preparations to leave, understood their intent, and made her own, so she could show up and announce that she is coming too, Egwene on the show is simply drafted by Moiraine. Where Nynaeve made arrangements with the Women's Circle and got a replacement to cover her duties and set out in pursuit of the missing young people in her capacity as one who looks after the well-being of the villagers, on the show she gets dragged off by a Trolloc, and even though she gets away by stabbing it in her sacred pool (thus a place close enough to the village for a first-day visitor to easily find), she still chases after the gang for no reason we can understand. Where Nynaeve demonstrated her medical competence in the aftermath of the Trolloc attack, and her medical ethics by telling Moiraine exactly what herbs she is dosing her with, and by insisting to Lan that Moiraine is absolutely safe under her care, regardless of her opinion of the Aes Sedai, on the show, she tries, unsuccessfully, to help two villagers during the Trolloc attack, she attacks Lan while he is tending a wounded invalid, she refuses to tell the person wielding medical authority on her patient's behalf what she is giving said patient, and withholds her medical treatment until Lan promises to find her neighbors. She also blithely gives a traumatized and grieving man enough herbs to render unconscious an unwilling warrior (which is way more than a mere dose to help one sleep), apparently traveling with Steppin for a month did not clue Nynaeve in to the fact that he might not be in the best frame of mind to self-medicate. In the books, Lan shows frank and honest respect for Nynaeve's woodcraft & tracking skills, and later requests her help on the basis of those skills. On the show, he acts as if she has somehow cheated or something, demanding to know how she tracked him. Later, Nynaeve's revelation of the fact that she tracked him is used to roast Lan, making it to be an embarrassment on a par with having a horse fling him into a trough, getting a great laugh from the assembled Warders at their buddy Lan letting a guurl track him! They managed to denigrate both Nynaeve and Lan and make them both less impressive in their adaptation of Nynaeve's tracking skills.
Such a good introduction. Love that you’re reading the books and noticing the really weird changes they made. I always thought that the biggest challenge an adaptation would have is the amount of characters and how to condense down so much material… but they proved me wrong.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS a lot of the payoff for the reader is character development. Matt is a happy go lucky guy that kind of just goes where life takes him and his arc is about accepting responsibility. Perrin is shut off from people and his journey is about accepting relationships. Things have been changed enough that at some point the show isn’t going to be able to pull anything from the book outside of major events.
IMO This episode has the most egregious demonstration that the show runner and writers don't understand the source material in the scene between Siuan and Moiraine in The Hall. Aes Sedai cannot lie. Siuan: "Cannot or will not" tell me what you've been up to? Moiraine: "Cannot" Siuan: "So you WILL not" Everyone in The Hall knows that, if Moiraine says she "cannot" tell Siuan what she's been up to, it means it is a physical impossibility - not a matter of willingness. There was no room left in the question or answer for ambiguity. Siuan treating it as a matter of willingness without objection from anyone shows that the writers had no clue they were contradicting themselves. I've tried to forgive all the issues they faced with COVID and the loss of a major actor. I've tried to forgive last minute rewrites. I've tried to look at this as a "different turning of The Wheel". I've tried to forgive the attempt to make this GOT by sexing it up. But, these few lines in this one scene just broke my delusion of optimism.
And we are supposed to believe, that Siuan always have a plausible explanation about "What exactly Moiraine are working on?" because that was the whole point of her task... Apparently.
For me, it was the end of the episode, when they make moiraine swear an oath, that is (without spoiling anything specific here) despised and seen as an abhorrend idea in later books. No aes sedai would stand by and watch someone being forced to swear this publicly.
This episode was probably written by one of the writers who never read the books... and never got an explanation of the Three Oaths. (It's been admitted that some of the writers did not read the books.) The "lore specialist" that they hired... had probably been sent off to write up notes on how a fake change to the script/books would affect things... until she turned into a nervous wreck. The show-runner (in a tweet) has admitted to doing this... and laughed about it... thinking it's funny.
@@Nyet-Zdyes This scene bothers me so much because it's not just a violation of the source material but a violation of the lore even within the show. The show firmly established that Aes Sedai cannot lie.
Just to try to help clear any confusion about Siuan and Moiraine's relationship in the books, this passage from the official Wheel of Time Companion book explains perfectly. "She and Siuan became very close friends. As was common with a good many friendships in the cloistered society of novices, Siuan and Moiraine turned to one another more and more for comfort, and they eventually became pillow friends, continuing up to the time they were raised Aes Sedai and to some extent for a time thereafter. Neither was Lesbian; they were simply young women with normal libidos in a situation where they were cut off from the opposite sex."
Here's how I feel about this show. It is sort of like I went to a restaurant that years ago had made one of the best dishes I had ever eaten. I was then told that there was a cook who remembered the dish, had a copy of the recipe, and loved it too and would make it for me. The dish I received had the name of the dish was the same, but many of the ingredients that I expected to find and enjoyed had been replaced with new ingredients. When I inquired why it was so different when they had the recipe, only to be told that the chef felt that the dish needed to be reimagined to match the current menu.
As @bookcloaks said, for your sanity, if you are this mad of Episode 6, STOP. 6 is a masterpiece, the best ever script, next to Episode 8 written by Rafe Judkins. He even apologize later because everyone understood a scene, how is was written and portrayed, but that's not what he wanted to say hahaha.
The first 16 minutes of this show hurt a friend of mine so badly that he called me, screamed and told me that at this point he was aware why I was so upset with Game of thrones TV series. I never touched The wheel of time show and I warned him.
@@SHADOW1414 wasn't the first scene the red ajah hunting down that random dude? A made-up scene out of no where. Maybe I'm wrong, I've never rewatched this mess, but that's what I remember. It was there to establish "context" so they could cut Thom Merrilin out of the script. Lol.
I appreciate your commentary and attention to detail with your reviews. It was heartbraking to watch what the TV series creators did to the WoT books/story.
I absolutely love your professional take on the writing and production of this series! Wonderfully insightful! And I feel for you everytime your sad music plays! Also, as a fan of cheesy Chinese martial arts films, I'm especially appreciating your liberal use of such footage! Cracks me up! Wait?! I need to know if a River fisher person would fish in the ocean, or visa versa!! What the hell?! Best cliffhanger in season 1 of the show! - Regarding the portal in Moiraine's room, (btw, I never noticed the continuity error with the furniture before 🤣), most of us book readers passed it off as a Ter'Angreal. Not sure if they've been mentioned to you in the show or the books yet. If so, ask and I'll expand on this thought. If not, well, these are things you'll learn about yet, so I won't spoil. - Not sure if you followed any of the early controversy as the show first aired, but it was mentioned that Rafe Judkins, the showrunner, would send their Book Consultant, Sarah Nakamura out to get coffee while he and the writers made big show decisions. He also apparently sent Nakamura vindictively immature emails pretending to seriously ask her what consequences there would be later in the story if they turned a major character gay, or killed them off. He did this just to get a rise out of her, some sort of sick joke. Hearing him in interviews, he so smugly thought he was clever with this. - Because you asked, and it's so inconsequential to reading the books that I don't think it'll hurt your reading in any way, shape, or form; Moiraine and Siuan don't have a sexual relationship in the books. At some point it's briefly eluded to that they were "pillow friends" while Novices together. Essentially Jordan's version "college experimentation", I think, although he never specified if it was a sexual thing, or just girls cuddling up at night, giving each other a shoulder to cry on, supporting each other in close comradery during their somewhat harsh White Tower training. - Moiraine parading Egwene through the Sitter's Hall, (throne room), just shows that the writers weren't thinking about the very things they were trying to establish, like Egwene possibly being the Dragon, so Moiraine would want to keep her a secret from the others. No, instead they're so heedless of their own machinations that they obliviously forget to think about Moiraine's motives here, because _they_ already know Egwene isn't the DR, but forget that the viewers, and other Aes Sedai, aren't in on it. Just sloppy. In all honesty, I swear there must have been two or more groups of writers handling individual episodes, all working off the same outline, but none of them checking to see what the previous writers established in the previous episodes!
I am so happy to hear your comments in the first one minute of this! I'm sure I'll love the rest also, but I think you've hit the nail on the head already
Traveling aka portals, was a thing of legends. Aes Sedi could do it in the age of legends, but it is lost in the current time. Opening the Way gates with the power has big repercussions to the story line of two of the main characters.
I am sorry to see you go theough this... But also its very vindicating to hear yet another smart and articulate person come out and say the things we got banned from Reddit for saying... Great work. And sorry again. For what you have suffered through, and for what you are about to auffer with 7 and 8... Walk in the Light.
When you speak at 1:03:00 of changing Moraine relationship with her friend to lovers. One of the writers went on twitter and activelly antagonized the fans of the book for disliking the changes in the show. Saying something to the effect of, "if he heard any more complaining about the representation in the show, he would make Perryn gay". So it's highly possible the relationship of those two women was changed for motives outside of simply storytelling.
I literally sit around waiting each week for you to review the next episode the same way people sat around each week. Waiting for a new episode of Game of Thrones. And you do not disappoint. You point out so many things that I’ve noticed, and even stuff that I haven’t. I read the entire series 10 years ago and reread it before the show came out. The butterfly effect is even worse than you can imagine. Major plots from books way further down the line are completely destroyed like a thread from the pattern burnt out by balefire.
Moiraine in the show is a wet tissue compared to her in the book. We see her constantly fall to peer pressure, reverse psychology, and other social or mental tactics. In the book she would take that peer pressure, make a cutting comment about sheep following a dog, and then float away with grace. Moiraine is the short lady wearing the biggest pants in the first book, she has everything under control and even when things fall apart she has plans in play to cover for that... in the books.
Regarding Moiraine being a lesbian, she 100% is not in the main 14 books. Dead stop. In the prequel book “New Spring” which shows Moiraine/Siuan as novices in the tower, they are very close and always together. There is not a single POV chapter from either of them where they think or act out in any overt sexual way. They actually discuss being lonely and longing for a prince to marry and take them away but they realize their lives have taken them in separate paths. So Robert Jordan definitely didn’t specifically write anything that proves they had any kind of sexual relationship. There is one line from another young rival who says to someone else that Moiraine/Siuan are always together and she concludes they are “pillow friends”. Many who support the show relationship have pointed to this one line as proof that they are gay and lovers. But as you correctly point out, this addition to their relationship completely changes their dynamic and also requires changes to the entire plot and world lore with the traveling device in order to shoehorn in these sex scenes (apparently there will be more in S2).
Commentators, me included, tried to point out, that even in the New Spring they both clearly don't see "pillow friends" experience as something important, they never show any concern about their future relationship, and in the finale they separate in completely business-like manner.
Moiraine and Siuan almost definitely were pillowfriends at one point but yes it was more of a temporary thing that didn’t necessarily translate to a long term love interest
This shows the immense value of a competent editor. So glad TH-cam coughed this video up at me. Hell just a set of eyes that doesn't have ego wrapped up in the production of a script is crazy valuable.
remember how show Nynaeve hated the Aes Sedai because of their elitism in turning away her mentor because she was poor? Well, ignore that because the poor little girl grew up to become the Amyrlin seat. the inconsistency of their own writing is staggering.
they are going to use that discrepancy as a S2 plot point where they break down Nynaeve's misconceptions about the tower. Nynaeve will learn that her mentor was actually turned away for another reason.... it was just unreliable narrator. And thus is thematic for hte series. 🤪😜😆
How do you feel about the cold open knowing that Tear is about 2000 miles DOWNriver from Tar Valon... And Siuan grew up in the slums of the major city of Tear, not a little mountain village... Also there are no mountains in the country of Tear...
Get this woman into the WoT tv show writer's room! While I remain hopeful the show can turn itself around and really shine, it won't do it without really good writing. You make some great points in these videos and I hope future season's writer's room takes some of these into consideration.
@@SHADOW1414 Disagree. Airbending, firebending, waterbending. That's, literally, all in the books. I get that the OP is speaking just about the show. That's cool. However, all of that already existed.
@@SHADOW1414 Just as an example, let's revisit the ferry since it's non-spoilery. So, was that waterbending or channeling? Of course, it's channeling. So when does it become waterbending? It's fine to claim something. It's not fine to say, "This is airbending, so it comes from Avatar." No. This existed 15 years before Avatar.
@@urfaes6878 Your comparing tomatoes to potatoes. Sure, they're both nightshades, but they certainly aren't the same thing. The concept of elemental magic long predates both airbending and channeling.
there are hints in the books that moiraine and siuan used to be "pillow-friends" but that relationship has certainly ended 20 years ago when they were made Aes sedai
In the books Moiraine sent two messages to Siuan before they met in Fal Dara, one saying she found the Dragon in the Two Rivers and the next saying there was a change in plan and that she was headed to Fal Dara, sent before they left Caemlyn. So Siuan already knows she has Rand, and she saw him when she entere and recognised his importance, which justifies why they take the time to reconnect briefly before getting to business when Moiraine comes to see her.
In the show, Moiraine can sense saidin (the male half of the One Power) in Logain, but can't sense saidar (the female half of the One Power) in Nynaeve ... which implies that Moiraine can channel saidin.
In the show, the only reason Moiaraine or any other female aes sedai know Logain is strong is because they're shielding him while he is consistently pushing back, there are many reasons to criticize the show but this is not one of them.
@@battlebanshee8862but... Alanna says it's more difficult to hold a shield than break out of one. And it only takes two to keep him locked down for days, if not weeks. I feel like the comment is fair, if not particularly thorough.
Matt was never a villain. Mordred a guy from the old city created this kind of evil, which has nothing to do with the dark one. Its so infectous that the whole city did exterminate each other.
The amount of times the words “It is just Confusing” is needed to explain the show, is how everyone that ever saw it had to say to itself constantly all the way to the end.
11:40 Moiraine could have said her mission was “searching for very powerful welders of the One Power, and lo & behold, I found Nynaeve.” H/t Shadiversity.
On the Egwene ans Perrin in hospital scene, I have trouble believing that the Yellow Sisters would see Egwene and her insane potential and still don't care that Moiraine is keeping her secret.
Regarding Liandrin's accusation about Moiraine, Nynaeve & Moiraine have never interacted in the sight of others before this episode. Their ONLY interaction was when Moiraine accosted her while scrubbing the "sacred pool". Nynaeve was kidnapped by a Trolloc and Moiraine left the village with the kids, and then Nynaeve caught up while Moiraine was unconscious, and was brought into the Aes Sedai camp, being carried, and then Liandrin had a conversation with Nynaeve, all while Moiraine is in the tents and chilling with the sisters. According to the show, Liandrin is the only Aes Sedai to talk to Nynaeve in between Winternight and her spontaneous channeling event. I legit believe they don't even read their own scripts, or else forget them, and write each script thinking of the book as the background and their episode the first point of departure. Before Moiraine succumbs to her wound, the gang are talking about "if Nynaeve was with us" but why would they say that? She's not one of their buddies or their peer group. They might as well be saying "if Master Luhann the Blacksmith were here, he would be saying X". The writers scripted that conversation as if everyone was aware Nynaeve was a main character and a member of their "Fellowship". It gets worse in Season 2, by the way. there are a number of comments that seem to reference events of _The Eye of the World_, rather than "Wheel of Time: Season 1." For example, at one point Egwene claims she is motivated to study the One Power saying that if she had been a better channeler, she could have made a difference at the Eye. But in the show, she did not go to the Eye, because she was not the Dragon Reborn, and any of them who were not the Dragon Reborn would die if they went. Egwene believed this, and argued in support of that idea on the show. And even if she did not, she was not given a choice and her channeling ability was not a factor. Rand left with Moiraine in an effort to exclude everyone but himself, not excluding all but the skilled channelers. Then there is the point that Egwene *did* make a difference while Rand was at the Eye, except it was in defending Fal Dara. Had she not been there, Amalisa might not have had the strength to kill the Trollocs, and there would have been no one to save Nynaeve from Amalisa's channeling excess killing her. Her stated motivation makes no sense. But in the book, she WAS at the Eye, she tried to channel and was ineffective and Rand's attempt to protect her from the danger she drew as a result, caused the Forsaken to pursue him. Had Egwene been better trained at the Eye of the World, in the book, she might indeed have made a difference. But they mixed up the book and show, if that was their intention.
Bahaha! You are so right about the script writers probably not reading their own scripts. I think I say it a few times in my reviews... these episodes feel like the first draft of a script... not the final draft. That is so cringe!
Robert Jordan was a war veteran who had seen and done a lot in his life. Feels like the show writers a) didn't read the source material but only read the wiki blurbs if that and b) were straight out of high school that they were driven to each day by the stereotypical soccer mom. No experience whatsoever, no wonder the dialog is that abysmal.
Potential spoilers as its from the companion. Logain is the 3rd strongest channeler in universe. Logain can for lack of a better word man handle Nynaeve at her hieght. In jordans rankings of power logain is a +12 and nyneave at her peek will be unknown but shes supposed to be stronger eventuqlly than cadsuane whom is a +10. Currently nyneave is around a +8 Its just sad that they disrupted the power balance which asmodean discribes in book 4 as being likened onto strength "A man is as much stronger in the power on average as a man is stronger than a woman physically" What this means is you can have men that can barely channel jsut like you have weak men and you can have really powerful woman as well. However men plot further along the bell curve in strength. This imbalance is mitigated in woman being more dexterous with weaves while men are more brute strength. Also woman can link upto 13 to channel. At 13 not even a +12 man can stop the 13 weakest woman feom shielding him. However men are required to increase the link to 72
I’m glad you’re on to book 2, get ready for some more, WTH moments looking back on season 1 as you read on. As I understand it the show was having trouble with the horses so they had to give them up, possibly fear of the actors getting harmed. Siuan and Moiraine was done for a couple specific reasons but we can’t talk about that without being labeled. Also if I remember correctly the show runner threatened anyone bothered by it that he would write more of the same into the show just to spite them. The actor who portrays Padan fane, doesn’t seem to do a good “adaptation” from the book. But he also appears as a crazed person in the Halo show and everyone who saw that performance screams THATS PADAN FANE!!! I think that the t!t$ scene was more of a showing the female form in a non-sexual nature rather than catering to the male audience. I love that you made the comment about the repercussions of making changes to the story, significant changes. There are things that are going to happen in books 2 and 3 that will be seriously affected by the changes in season 1. And by extension the rest of the series. The last episode is going to be a train wreck. You should really do a warm up, breathing and stretching exercises before watching it and reviewing it.
Moiraine and Siuan were « pillow friends » at the White Tower before becoming Aes Sedai. Since all the students are female during their puberty, and the White Tower is all women, it’s normal that their initial sexual explorations would be with whoever is available. It’s explicitly stated that for most this is a matter of necessity and is temporary, they mostly end up with men. Not so for the Red Ajah for example. They mostly continue being with women. That being the case, there’s more than enough lesbian characters that they could have moved forward in the story. Galina for example is explicitly stated as being gay. Siuan and Moiraine both end up in consequential hetero relationships. I just don’t understand the thinking behind these wrecking ball type of changes. They’re unnecessary at best.
@@roscoe2311 At this point I have to wonder if they read the books at all or just had it vaguely summarized by someone who’d read the synopsis a few years ago.
Right? And even if you wanted to say their relationship was still ongoing, that would be fine. Its a physical one where they take comfort in each other. But to say its a love that will last all their lives and into the next completely cuts out the other relationships these two have. Not that it matters with what they did to Thom I guess.
Only Elaida ever said that Siuan and Moiraine were pillowfriends as Novices, as a petty and spiteful taunt. It was never confirmed in any way by any trustworthy source or by any Moiraine or Siuan POV. I don’t believe that they were ever actually pillowfriends at all.
Toviene was a Red who liked men for one thing, she wanted to be the dominant partner. It could be that many of the Reds are hetero and want a more balanced relationship outside of their work life, there are a few Reds who question the wisdom of not having warders.
It's pretty significant that they changed why they go to the Eye in the tv show. In the book Ba'alzamon is the one driving the story throughout the first book. We open with Ishamael confronting Lews Therin, then he attacks the Two Rivers, he hounds them across the land to Caemlyn, he seeds rumours of his attack on the Eye and then his agents use the party to be able to get to the Eye, which would only show up for the good guys in their time of need. It's very much his book, but now in the show Siuan has a prophetic dream that sends them there instead, fundamentally altering who has agency here.
But hey, instead they switched Baalzamon/Ishamael from deranged maniac with literally burning eye sockets to the... some guy dressed like an Orthodox Jew,
Avoiding spoilers has been a challenge. You're asking so many questions with answers, but answering them in any way could spoil things! The prequel book has a few answers, like with Moraine's relationship with Suiane, for example. I'd be happy to tell you what I know about New Spring, if you don't mind. As for this episode itself, it also makes Moraine look wildly incompetent; she's capable of healing, but she has another Aes Sedai look after Perrin instead, she can't come up with a good answer to Suiane's question, despite Linandrin handing an answer to her on a silver platter by complaining about Nynave, it's revealed the Blue Ajah has an extensive spy network, yet she didn't use it at all on the way to Tar Valon to track down the kids, and then she threatens to out Linandrin as straight to the Red Ajah, as if the Red Ajah would hurt any random man, and finally, if Nynave is so important to the tower, why is Moraine allowed to take her into exile?
@@peterminos5604Nope. He was a no-show when he was due to resume filming in September 2020, which is *months* before the first vaccines received authorisation for use. Doesn't fly, stop talking shite.
@@techsoul5590A head's up that he (or at least someone on his behalf) have been sending out legal letters with the possibility of suing for slander related to claims that he'd be an anti-vaxxer. So I'd say that that was not the reason. Whatever the reason was, I'd guess the vaccine was not it.
On the topic of Liandrin the Great, I feel like if the show could have given her a mustache to twirl, they would have. Look up, "Snidely Whiplash". That's what I picture anytime Liandrin is doing her thing. I look forward to a scene where Liandrin is caught, has a mask ripped off, and she says, "I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids and your stupid dog." The show portrays her as a cartoon villain. That's about the nicest thing I can say.
The dialogue they cut in the love scene was the entire book of New Spring... But taken out of context with a magnifying glass on like a few lines... But yeah, this show is made for non-readers right? This show makes no sense if you haven't read the books, because it rests on background book knowledge from several books in the future... But if you have read the books, it makes no sense!😂
Completely agree, it's strange. It's like the show is aware that it was made for book readers but at the same time it destroys all the greatness of the source material
The tower politics in this show are jr. High level at best. The problem is the show runners are stupid, which makes it hard for them to write smart characters. Remember Game of Thrones when Tyrion finds his sister's spy by promising to marry her daughter off, but giving each potential spy a different name, then waiting to see what name his sister comes back with? That was smart. There's a Korean show called The Arthdal chronicles, which has just tons of great political maneuvering and constant back stabbing. Its great. This show has people that are supposed to be brilliant, but are basically Mean Girls with magic.
55:08 Possible spoilers, mainly about lore: The wheel doesn’t have an intent per se. It does seem to seek balance though, as it is the tool of the creator to spin out the pattern of the ages. This leads characters in the book to personify the wheel, like “I feel like gravity is pulling me down” or “the storm seems angry tonight”.
If you are this hurt by episode six, just wait for the end of the season. Then imagine that The Wheel of Time is your favourite book series, and you’ve been reading and re-reading these books for over 25 years….
She is gonna love episode 8, she probably won't talk. It will be an hour and a half of tears. Bonus points if she does fake crying in her video.
😂
@@dandyjohnson no... we need more than 2 hours!!!
This is honestly the worst. I've only read 3 books so far but it is fanfiction at this point
@@thezerowulf2046 as a whole series reader nd this being one of my fav series. I am still looking forward to season 2. For them to come back even a little on track. To write better at least. Even though I m so aghast by season 1. Coz. I know. There is no other way my friends would ever get to experience this series. They don't read books. Or can't read such huge series. So I am praying they have some faithful semblance to source material in some time.
But o well. Who am I kidding.
I'm sorry, folks. This was long... mainly because I was exhausted and unenthusiastic about this episode. The pressure is on to be more concise, now, though, because I'm marathoning the final two episodes reviews. Watch as I review... I think. I dunno. I'm gonna try that for episode 7 and see if it works well enough to continue for episode 8.
Excellent..... I love them long.... insert Michael Scott meme......
Just so you know, Episode 7 is the one Disparu did a 2 and three quarter hour long review of... it's the one that _really_ broke him.
Long is fine some of us come from EFAP which is 6+ hour breakdowns 😅
Also we read the wheel of time something like 7 mil words and multiple times
Long format episodes are great! And damn does this disaster of an episode ever deserve to be torn apart.
This was the last episode for me. It took me about 3 days to get through this one by watching in15-20 min intervals before I asked myself why in the hell was I torturing myself. There was enough content on TH-cam that solidified my decision to abandon the show. The writers and producers are so arrogant to believe they can do better than Robert Jordan!!
It’s hilarious how the show runner said he did not have enough time to fit in everything from the book, but the past few episodes have been comprised mainly of made up content. It just shows that the people making this just wanted to make their own fantasy show while banking off of a popular ip. Unfortunately, that seems to be a trend in many modern adaptations, as The Witcher and Halo shows suffer from the exact same fundamental issue, being that the writers don’t actually care for the source material.
Word
Agreeeeeeeeeee!
i remember you from the prophet of the dragon, it seems like a community is being formed
This, right here, explains this entire shitshow.
They are on video saying that they think they can do better than Robert Jordan, and they are out to "improve" the source material. Liars and hypocrites, just trying to get negative publicity as they gaslight the book fans whilst ramping up their ESG score. I have a theory that the showrunners actually fancy themselves as Forsaken, and are trying to re-weave the pattern by employing plot-balefire to eliminate entire characters who are integral to the books. Then they use compulsion to subvert every main character into a perversion of what R.J. intended.
But let me tell you how I really feel! As I've said in many places about quite a few productions lately- These people stand on the shoulders of giants, only to piss on their graves.
there is a great C.S. Lewis quote about reading friendships as lovers it goes something like "Those who can not conceive Friendship as a substantive love but only as a disguise or elaboration of Eros reveal the fact that they themselves have never had a true friend"
This may be my new favorite quote.
CS Lewis could always nail the point down. Thanks for this one.
True, and I love this quote, but the issue with the show is a political agenda. On the WOT FB page there was a poll as to what was members’ favorite changes from the books. A few dozen folks responded and the comments were overwhelmingly around 2 items: 1) the reduction of the gender binary in the power and reincarnation to be more inclusive of trans and non-binary viewers and 2) the overt gay relationship between Moiraine and Siuan. These people don’t watch with a critical eye. They see some gay banging and their brains become fuzzy and the dialogue is non existent. To them the story is subordinate to these political issues and not vice versa. It’s literally fan fiction. And before anyone says I’m “homophobic”. I loved the Loras/Renly relationship in GoT. It was appropriate in the books and was adapted very well by HBO. I would have been super pissed if they made them straight in the tv show.
@@charlestruppi7793 makes one wonder what they loved about the books, if anything.
Great quote, I'd never heard it before. Reminds me very much of one of the dumbest arguments I've ever had in the internet. The Tolkien Society had a bunch of lectures, including one talking about the "queer relationship between Sam & Frodo". This was posted on a LOTR forum. People gave me shit because I said they weren't gay, they just had a deep friendship. And that it was clearly based or JRRT's experiences in the war. Sam & Frodo are basically war buddies. Most people kept insisting they were gay, I felt like i was losing my mind. But your quote explains that perfectly I think. I do feel bad for people who don't have a true friend, must be a hard way to get through life.
Your slow descent into madness is honestly my favorite part of this series, the pufferfish ramble had me losing it.
Oh my gosh! 😂 it took me until a full minute after the ramble to stop laughing. That was so good! And honestly it highlighted how they couldn't even get the little things right in throw away lines. It also highlighted how a super thorough review would be many hours long.
This show just suffers from everything big picture all the way down to the details. And most of it is due to horrible dialogue.
I'm so glad people liked this part... which I almost cut out because I wasn't sure if it was funny. I've actually been corrected by some other commenters. There totally are freshwater puffer fish. But the point is this... I wasn't sure which was the case, and if I was editing this script, I would have made sure to find out before approving. For so much of these episodes, I get the feeling the editors of these scripts (if there are any) don't really pay attention to what the characters are saying. They should be criticizing and second guessing every line, so as to make sure it is as perfect as possible. Maybe they are just editing for punctuation.
Eagle sounds when Lan appears on screen will never not be funny
When I watch episodes, now, every time he comes into frame, my brain adds the eagle screech.
I don't even know why she's doing it but it's freaking hilarious 😂😂
I'm just glad to see another non-fan professional's opinion of the TV show, given the constant backlash against the fans of the books for disliking the series, chalking it all up to just wanting a more accurate adaptation... there's SO MUCH MORE wrong with the series than the quality and accuracy of adaptation.
No the Rafesworn series lovers say is Bookcloaks want a word for word retelling of the books to the show. That's the strawman argument they keep using.
Of all changes the complete destruction of Mat is what angers me the most. Mat is the most brave of all of them. He is the ONE, and only one that puts himself in absurd dangers for completely selfless reasons almost every time he appears. He wants to avoid confrontatiosn but he NEVER leaves his friends unattended.
And yells at himself "blood & bloody ashes, I'm no hero" every time he does it.
They did all the boys dirty, but eorst of all Matt. And they made Nynaeve a blood and ashes Mary Sue.
Im glad that the videos are now longer and thus more comprehensive
I get the feeling that Hollywood writers have nevered matured beyond a high-school mentality and now they're basically trying to write adults without having any idea of what a mature adult looks like.
Probably because they're hired through connections, instead of actual skill.
Skilled writers don't get jobs in Hollywood anymore because some producer's kid needs a paycheck.
or they think the audience is idiots
Nothing wrong with the length of your reviews. I enjoy them you feel the book reader pain who just what a good show
One huge problem with the series is that they imagine that SO many things that happened "off screen" for a reason in the books, NEED to have time on screen in the show, which takes time away from character development that desperately needs it in such a short season of TV.
It's like, they're patting themselves on the back for bringing things to screen that we never see: Logain's capture, Siuan's childhood, etc.
But we did NOT need those things. We needed things like Rand's father telling him he's not his father. We needed Lan and Thom teaching the Emond's Fielders.
Instead we got crap.
You hit the nail on the head.
They definitely made Siuan a tyrant. Unfortunately, characters can only be as clever as their writers.
Yeah they gave her elaidas actions from the book. I would say they were making Siuan a villain but the context is she’s heroic so I guess that means they though elaida was a hero in the book. Of course that par for the course with modern Hollywood. I see so many examples of heroes acting villainous
It is telling that Hollywood equates power with tyranny. @@joshcowart2446
**SPOILERS**
Even though the dialog in the show is horrid, I remember Siuan driving the Aes Sedai like the crew of a ship, belittling and berating them. Granted it was more done off page, but the Aes Sedai do make the odd comment in book 2 amongst themselves. And even later on Siuan always gets herself in hot water snapping and talking down to people when she’s no longer powerful.
@@theashrook6129Exactly, the Amyrllin is a tyrant. The Aes Sedai are a political organization, posing as a charity. A weird mix of compassionate and tyrannical is a pretty accurate vibe for the organization.
What even was the infraction that got moiraine booted? It's pretty unclear to me. A sister of that power woukd have to be a real piece of shit to get perma-dumped. At worst she would do a penance which would be the pretext for freedom. The entire white tower plot was stupid. Even liandrin is totally stupid. Elaida is the main villain, not bumble McGee liandrin. She is a no count. They would have been much better served going to caemlyn and following the books. You could have done that all in one episode
I care much more about seeing your next installment than any of season 2 because your journey (the genre is tragedy, btw) is more compelling than anything they did in the season 1
Seeing your thought process mirroring millions of fans is hard.
The sorrow I went through each episodes is still fresh...
Stay Shiney.
Gird your loins for the Firefly remake...
So a poor young girl arriving alone and penniless at the gates of Tar Valon can ascend all the way to the Amyrlin Seat, if she has the spark, the talent and works hard. Truly inspiring.
Rather than being sent away, as Badly Written Nynaeve claimed just a couple of episodes ago, and wasn't even corrected by Poorly Adapted Moiraine.
Almost as if the two scenes were written by two different people, each of whom had no idea what the other was doing, with no-one overseeing their work. And maybe one of them had read one of the books.
Keep up the good work! Truly, your videos are far more entertaining than the show.
Yes, 2 different writers for this episode and the other one... unless you also count the idiot running the show.
To be more fair to the screenwriters than they probably deserve, Siuan's natural ability was far greater than that of the Wisdom who started training Nynaeve.
Also, the Tower has long imposed an arbitrary age limit beyond which it will not enroll new Novices no matter their strength. Nynaeve is already pushing that limit. If her mentor waited to come to the tower until she was a couple years older, then she would have been rejected even if her talent was the greatest since before the Breaking of the World.
In a later book we will meet a grandmother who is stronger than Nynaeve but was rejected by the tower until Egwene made them change their rules.
@magister343 good points. In the show I think that Nynaeve said her mentor was a girl when she went to Tar Valon, and that she was specifically turned away for being poor. Moiraine didn't refute either point. I could be wrong, and I'm not going to watch it again to check.
The Rings of Power was always going to be dodgy fan fiction, but this show really shouldn't be.
I wonder if the (presumed) new Amyrlin allowed those rule changes to stay in effect. She has a substantial stubborn streak of her own.
Well, it is sometimes sort of a boarding school for rich brats. A lot of wealthy nobles send their daughters there to study as novices, but they very rarely make it as far as Accepted. Most don't have nearly enough strength in the power for them to be admitted as Novices if not for their political connections. The most noteworthy case of this is the tradition where very Daughter-Heirs of Andor are always sent to study in the Tower, and are even granted the honor of a great serpent ring even if they leave without becoming Accepted. Elayne's mother is about as weak in the power as it is possible to be while still be capable of channeling anything at all, but she did learn the basics of how to channel as a Novice and did get a ring even though there was absolutely no chance she would be allowed to step through the arches. The Tower is more willing to accept a very powerful pauper than a rich girl of little ability, but among those who can barely channel they definitely favor the rich and powerful. Maybe the Wisdom before Nynaeve was both poor and weak in the power. @@carlbumpkin7963
I love this series because it perfectly follows the logical thought processes of any rational person reading/having read the books and watching the show. You start off thinking ok, let's check this out. That quickly turns into wait, why did they change that? Which almost instantly morphs into why did they change that into such a stupid thing? Then suddenly by episode three you're well past spending half your time thinking of obvious ways the show could have been significantly better before easing into episode six territory where you're just spending the entire time wondering if the entire thing is a joke made by people who hate the book and people in general because the writing/decisions aren't just bad but somehow entirely incoherent. Honestly I'm more entertained watching your reactions to the show than I was by the show itself.
EDITED AGAIN: It's a small spoiler if you haven't caught up to the way gate in the books but the Ogiers use a form of magic called treesinging, (I think that's the name), during the creation of the waygate but it doesn't use any form of magic to open later. Thanks to Jeremy for the reminder since I originally mixed that up :)
This is my reaction to 95% of book to movie/series adaptations lol. I just gave up on television all together eventually.
@@nightmarishcompositions4536
A lot of them weren't nearly as bad as they started to become since the YA era of Hollywood started with Hunger Games.
Though clearly the events of 2017 caused them to just start jumping the shark entirely into fcuk you audience territory - it's like the showrunners WANT it to get cancelled.
@@mnomadvfx Hunger Games and Twilight are actually faithfully adapted. This is not.
@@jaredouimette1... your definition of "faithful" is curious. I hope you are not married. Lol😂
Treesinging doesn't open the Waygates. The Avendasora leaf talisman does.
Treesinging along with the One Power is what created the Waygates.
One more thing about the Liandrin confrontation with Moiraine and the Amyrlin: don't forget the episode 1 cold open: Moiraine had a Trump card against the reds: she witnessed an extra-judicial gentling of ANOTHER man just before episode 1 events start... She had the perfect Uno Reverse card and forgot about it lol
Gentling is no big deal. Didn’t you notice how the Amerlin just blew off Logaine’s, and jumped on Moraine for keeping a secret.
Maybe because the writers forgot about it as well? I'm happy at least someone mentioned what we saw from Ep1.
@@chrisf2636That's because Liandrin used an ancient Aes Sedai technique, called "changing the subject". It was very effective.
Never made this connection. Instead they had Moiraine say she new about some sort of "man on the side" Liandrin had, which I guess would be devastating to the Reds. Rafe and the writers are so damned juvenile, unbelievable!
@@Perry_Wolf yes
The good news is there's only two episodes left
The bad news is there's two episodes left
Two episodes of pain
Season two soon.
Yay..?
I think 7 was better than 6 but 8, omg the ending on 8 that sets up the Seanchan - I just can’t imagine a worse way to do that, that was just the cake topper on that entire deeply unsatisfying episode. And that with Ishmael being well acted. But the entire battle of the gap, Loial, Perrin, Moiraine just so many things fell apart.
@@jasonbrown9142 True, although the Ways were very disappointing imo. Since we now have therapy wind instead of horror wind & Nyneave is uber Mary Sue. The YA love triangle was pretty sad as well, but, I concur, 7 was better than 5 and 6. Only set us up for more pain when it came to ep 8 though...
It's difficult to point out how you are right without spoilers. Your point about questioning the portal thing is a big point. Let's just say that no Aes Sedai in the books can do this. It will be addressed at a later time in an important way in the books, but now that cannot happen in the show. This is really the episode that the show goes off the rails in a major way. Prior to this, it could have been fixed. By the end of the season, easily 60-80% of what happens in the future books has to be rewritten.
Eh, I assumed the portal was a fixed ter'angreal that can only go to one location. It's a pointless addition, but I don't think it's worldbreaking.
They went to the Dream World, thus the color changing clothes
@@marcdunlap7414 this may not be the dream world, there are also pocket dimensions in WOT, that contain a building or a small piece of land. The real problem is they don’t make it clear what’s going on in this scene.
Race Judkins is an idiot!
@@davethebladei dont remember any 'pocket dimensions' at least not those made AFTER what nerdsgold is referringto
“Sorry this video is so long”
Me: I see this as an absolute win!
Somebody here loosing mind I see. Just be prepared for the last two episodes. You will need every strength. But we apreciate every video on WoT you make.
Deciding if this show is incompetence or malice is always a struggle...
It's both.
Overconfidence meets incompetence. I don't think there is really malice because many of the core ideas aren't bad if you recognize what they likely wanted to do with them - but the execution is simply so horrible that it doesn't work.
@@f.carasind4188when you force your ideological ideas into a pre-existing world I will call it malice. Especially since those ideas are in the world, just not in the on-the-nose way that is understandable for the showrunners
A little from Column A, a little from Column B.
Never attribute to malice that can be pure stupidity. Pretty sure it’s just a love of their own ideas, without consideration for what they’re doing to the material or ideas.
Like conversations with someone who has no respect for any idea not their own.
You said "Did you not think this through?" From what I'm hearing about this show, that seems to be the theme for the showrunners.
Spoilers if you want a quick run down of how Suian and Moraine's relationship develop after book 2
You're done! Congratulations. You've read the entirity of the scenes that they share together in all 14 of the main books.
There is New Spring though...
@@praetorxyn It is a prequel. It provides context to their relationship but it remains static for 14 books from where it is established in book 2 as they go on their respective character journeys.
@@galetempus1979 Yes. The only context comes from the prequel. I think the whole romantic relationship in the show was based on the “pillow friends” line, but I can’t remember which book that was mentioned in.
@@praetorxyn I believe it was mentioned by an Aes Sedai in either books 2 or 3. Either way, it's common for "pillow-friends" to drift apart in series and they make it clear they're just friends 18 or so years after NS. That being said, it actually took me a second read through to catch Moraine's book romance being set up.
@@galetempus1979 Same. But I’ve read it four times and that romance still doesn’t make much sense to me. It makes sense once she gives a certain someone the letter, but I don’t know why she gave him the letter.
The muppet splice was great. lol.
I do like how your episode reviews get longer and longer every time. Definitely capturing the frustration from all of the book readers watching the show :D
So the very beginning, it's 100% supposed to be Siuan. They give a little teaser about the Stone of Tear in the background, letting us know exactly where they are. It's an immense distance from Tear to Tar Valon. This scenario is analogous to a father in Dallas kicking his kid out of the house and telling them to figure out how to get to Philadelphia. Absolutely absurd. Thank you for this video series, it's so refreshing to have an objective perspective comparing the two pieces of media.
And they did it while in the New Spring it was said that Siuan simply was sent off to Tar Valon. As a passenger on a proper vessel.
@@TheNightrider88because she grew up in the city proper not the sticks.
Like she was living in the capital city tear.
@@janaanklassen87 Which took anyone who could channel and sent them to Tar Valon because they did not want anything to do with the Aes Sedai (not just in the city).
@@tapsmaps4706 well the city plays a role since she channeled to defend herself against sexual assault.
Also you wouldn't see many ships outside a major port.
@@janaanklassen87 Maybe it played a role in getting her sent to Tar Valon faster, but even if that happened in a less populated area, she would have still been sent there because Tear did not like anyone who could channel being around them.
I personally feel that the series should have been animated, they could have taken their time and captured the beautiful scenery Robert Jordan crafted
Have you read the comic adaptation? They did the whole Eye of the World and the New Spring prequel book.
@@TacticusPrime I read a few issues, a long time ago; maybe I should revisit them
Definitely get a studio like studio Mir or the one that does Legend of vox machina and BAM!! You have your wheel of time
My favorite line of this episode was when Siuan's dad says 'I can no more do that than a fish can touch the moon'. So inspiring! reminds me of rings of power
Its totally like rings of power
Ironically, this ridiculous opening with Siuan explicitly contradicts what Nynaeve said her Wisdom mentor went through. Siuan is a peasant girl with a weird accent (in the books, not this absolute tripe) ... yet the Aes Sedai put her in charge of them!
As to your initial thought about the show, frankly I lean more toward the showrunners not even liking the source material at all. That seems to better explain some of the blatant maliciousness toward some of the characters (read: every single male character).
Also, Mat's connection to the Dagger is not severed in the early part of Book 2. They were going to do it, but, as you stated, the Dagger is stolen. That's why Mat has to go after it because not only can he handle it relatively safely, he needs it so the Aes Sedai can properly sever the connection. But the showrunners think they're smarter than they are (presuming they're not actively malicious).
The contradiction of itself isn't a bad thing; the failure is that it's never addressed again, and this episode is about as long as this particular, somewhat pointless thread should have been left hanging.
And there are a bunch of options to resolve it - when Moiraine and Nynaeve arrive at the Tower, they could see someone sent away for being too old to enter the novice book. Moiraine could have pried the name out of Nynaeve, and when she and Egwene get their audience with the Amyrlin Seat, she could show Nynaeve the paperwork showing her mentor had enrolled, and been put out for not being strong enough for the Accepted test, or refusing/failing it 3 times. Or maybe Rand and Mat (or Egwene and Perrin) could have met someone just outside Tar Valon who had wanted to go to the Tower, and bottled it upon seeing the "grandest city in the world".
Indeed, it COULD be resolved, but I think anyone with a hint of critical thinking and awareness will suspect that the writers wanted to include some "class consciousness" stuff in the story and likely don't understand that Jordan already covers those themes *excellently* through MANY plot threads. They ALWAYS think they can do better, and the way they think they can do better is ALWAYS to remove the allegory and simply state it directly.@@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t
I disagree.. it must be malice. No one can be that stupid as these writers and not choke themselves eating breakfast
"I've read the book so I know what happens at the end"
I laughed when you said that because when you watch the last episode you'll be wondering what book you actually read 😅
3 times. No wonder you are tired and depressed. There are still some HUGE changes to the books about to happen so brace yourself. Thank you for taking on this project. It's been a wild ride so far.
The reason the aes sedai have been so lackluster in the show is due to a few reasons. One, the show runners must think that the audience wants obvious and clear drama, rather than intelligent and subtle maneuvering. Second as the show runners have departed so far from the source material they are relying on their own writing ability and thus far writing something elegant, intelligent, and subtle appears to be outside the scope of their abilities.
Been listening to the playlist in complete agreement. no ep7 i asked myself... wait, you JUST POSTED THIS? Guess you'll be fresh for season 2.
You will just love the season finale. As I said, it's impossible to not to hate it
I fully understand your frustration with the show because it pretty closely mirrors my own when I was watching season one. This is part of the reason why I enjoy watching your reviews/commentary on them (to see that I wasn't the only one feeling those things and hear many of my thoughts more clearly explained/defined than I ever made them). I would miss your videos on this topic if you stopped making them, but I could not say I didn't understand why you didn't think they were worth the time anymore.
I am really glad you decided to read the books and watch the show concurrently- what is and isn't spoiled is a tale in and of itself!
Undermining the need for Warders is, I believe, exactly the intention for the showrunners. They mess with Lan and his character and accomplishments on a number of occasions, with the general theme seeming to be the aggrandizement of Moiraine. Moiraine gets wounded fighting the Trollocs on the show, which, in the books, is something that Lan would see as a failure on his part. Lan does not get to rescue Perrin & Egwene from the Children of the Light. He is the one who makes the decision to take the group into Shadar Logoth, and Moiraine even revives for a moment to criticize his decision, so the writers can make it abundantly clear that she is Not To Blame for the events in Shadar Logoth (unlike the books, where she takes them in and does not warn them of any of the dangers, but instead talks up the safety of the place so the kids take her at her word and go wandering around). There is never a scene in the books, where Lan is the subject of general hilarity and mockery, such as at the Warder's campfire.
The writers of the adaptation have a clear agenda of promoting their own warped notions of feminism, while completely missing the feminist points in the books. For instance, in the books, women are almost never warriors. Nynaeve does not draw knives on people, or engage in hand to hand combat. It's not explicit, but as you get into the series, if you are paying attention, you start to realize it's because combat is not seen as heroic and badass, but as something beneath the dignity of women.
Combat is not synonymous with empowerment in the books, because military force is not the ultimate power in that world, the One Power is. So even though in the books, clocks are in sufficiently widespread use that an inn for a small village in a remote farming district has one, and printing presses are in wide enough use that there is near-universal literacy, even in the small farming village, and that same inn has a whole bookcase full of printed books, there are no gunpowder weapons of any kind. Gunpowder showed up in Western Europe in the 13th century, whereas Guttenberg invented the printing press in the middle of the 15th century, which is also when small clocks were invented. Military technology is 200 years behind in this world! Because military power is devalued, thanks to Aes Sedai dominating the culture. They also have heavily armored warriors on horses, but they don't have the concept of knighthood. Gareth Bryne is a national hero in Andor, but completely subservient to the queen who is the first of her dynasty, where in the real world, he'd be the tail that wags the dog in that regime, at the very least.
Another issue is that on the show, they use the word "bastard" in a pejorative context, on repeated occasions. *The word bastard does not appear at all in **_any_** Wheel of Time book* because it is a female-dominated society, and reproduction is not governed by patriarchal rules, even if children seem to mostly take their father's names. In all of Rand's concerns and thoughts about the reveal of his parentage in the books, from his father's confession that he found him, it never once crosses his mind that he was born out of wedlock, as the Prophecies say "born of a Maiden wedded to no man." It is later indicated (by an absence of any discussion of the issue) that noble women and queens can have children without being married, while suffering no fallout or ruinous scandal and can pass on their titles to such children without question.
With the fact that combat is still male-coded in the setting, while not being exalted or glamorized, and that motherhood is an institution independent of societal controls or authorization, we have examples of very realistic and thoughtful feminist world-building, and the show ignores both these points to make Nynaeve a knife-happy psycho and thinks they are empowering her. They made Perrin's wife a competent fighter, and showed Daise Congar taking down a Trolloc with a pitchfork, they had Dana the Dumpy Darkfriend brandishing Rand's sword, while two tall, healthy, fit and young males run in terror from her. But what they did not do, which the books did, is show Nynaeve's political power in Emond's Field, by introducing Daise Congar speaking up for the Wisdom and threatening her husband with real consequences if he tries to interfere with the business of the Women's Circle. This demonstrates that Nynaeve has a constituency and power and influence independent of the male power structure. On the show, Daise is introduced as a sloppy drunk. Because it's cool when the girls can pound back the liquor like manly dudes, amiright?
The book demonstrates Nynaeve's power in a dozen little ways, such as showing that the more sensible and capable members of the male leadership respect her authority, even when she is insulting them, showing that Moiraine leaps to rectify the damage she does to Nynaeve's reputation by calling her child before realizing that she is the Wisdom, having the villagers concerned that despite the widespread anticipation for the gleeman, Nynaeve could unilaterally cancel his performance if he offends her. Nynaeve in the books can barge in on the Village Council as they interrogate the peddler. Nynaeve on the show performs a nonsensical coming of age ceremony, scrubs rocks in a sacred pool which has zero significance established in the world-building, is not allowed to marry ... and that's it. The show even bypasses opportunities to give her a leadership function, such as by leading the ceremony of prayers for the dead, when they light the lanterns. They went through the trouble of shooting Zoe Robbins performing the ceremony, but doing it alone, instead of leading the village in prayers for their dead, which is totally a thing the Wisdom would do. They have Egwene's mother making a speech to start the festivities, while Nynaeve is shown in that location, but, again, not taking a leading role. I suspect it is because on the show, Marin al'Vere is the Mayor instead of her husband, making this yet another way in which the show goes for superficial feminist gestures (a woman mayor! O.M.G!) while completely missing that the women have a power structure all their own already established, and that Nynaeve is the equal of the mayor.
They are so busy giving Moiraine all the good lines and putting her front and center (the actress has a producer credit, I note) that they excise Egwene and Nynaeve's agency. Where Egwene in the books observed the boys' preparations to leave, understood their intent, and made her own, so she could show up and announce that she is coming too, Egwene on the show is simply drafted by Moiraine. Where Nynaeve made arrangements with the Women's Circle and got a replacement to cover her duties and set out in pursuit of the missing young people in her capacity as one who looks after the well-being of the villagers, on the show she gets dragged off by a Trolloc, and even though she gets away by stabbing it in her sacred pool (thus a place close enough to the village for a first-day visitor to easily find), she still chases after the gang for no reason we can understand. Where Nynaeve demonstrated her medical competence in the aftermath of the Trolloc attack, and her medical ethics by telling Moiraine exactly what herbs she is dosing her with, and by insisting to Lan that Moiraine is absolutely safe under her care, regardless of her opinion of the Aes Sedai, on the show, she tries, unsuccessfully, to help two villagers during the Trolloc attack, she attacks Lan while he is tending a wounded invalid, she refuses to tell the person wielding medical authority on her patient's behalf what she is giving said patient, and withholds her medical treatment until Lan promises to find her neighbors. She also blithely gives a traumatized and grieving man enough herbs to render unconscious an unwilling warrior (which is way more than a mere dose to help one sleep), apparently traveling with Steppin for a month did not clue Nynaeve in to the fact that he might not be in the best frame of mind to self-medicate.
In the books, Lan shows frank and honest respect for Nynaeve's woodcraft & tracking skills, and later requests her help on the basis of those skills. On the show, he acts as if she has somehow cheated or something, demanding to know how she tracked him. Later, Nynaeve's revelation of the fact that she tracked him is used to roast Lan, making it to be an embarrassment on a par with having a horse fling him into a trough, getting a great laugh from the assembled Warders at their buddy Lan letting a guurl track him! They managed to denigrate both Nynaeve and Lan and make them both less impressive in their adaptation of Nynaeve's tracking skills.
Man, I love how you are able to pick up all hat small details from the books and then explain how they actually reinforce the worldview presented.
Go off, Queen! Absolutely love your reviews, they are as insightful as they are entertaining! Can't wait for the next ones!!
Such a good introduction. Love that you’re reading the books and noticing the really weird changes they made. I always thought that the biggest challenge an adaptation would have is the amount of characters and how to condense down so much material… but they proved me wrong.
They are adding too much unnecessary stuff that is detracting from other super important things. It makes no sense.
@@TheSwordAndThePenREFLECTIONS a lot of the payoff for the reader is character development. Matt is a happy go lucky guy that kind of just goes where life takes him and his arc is about accepting responsibility. Perrin is shut off from people and his journey is about accepting relationships.
Things have been changed enough that at some point the show isn’t going to be able to pull anything from the book outside of major events.
"I feel like the writers made a poor decision in this case". Throughout the whole review process this was the only sentence you really needed to say 😂
I hope you keep going on the books if the tv shows doesn't last! Love your takes
Agree, I just found this brilliant woman and channel and this show will be cancelled LONG before we get to book 5.
IMO This episode has the most egregious demonstration that the show runner and writers don't understand the source material in the scene between Siuan and Moiraine in The Hall.
Aes Sedai cannot lie.
Siuan: "Cannot or will not" tell me what you've been up to?
Moiraine: "Cannot"
Siuan: "So you WILL not"
Everyone in The Hall knows that, if Moiraine says she "cannot" tell Siuan what she's been up to, it means it is a physical impossibility - not a matter of willingness. There was no room left in the question or answer for ambiguity. Siuan treating it as a matter of willingness without objection from anyone shows that the writers had no clue they were contradicting themselves.
I've tried to forgive all the issues they faced with COVID and the loss of a major actor. I've tried to forgive last minute rewrites. I've tried to look at this as a "different turning of The Wheel". I've tried to forgive the attempt to make this GOT by sexing it up. But, these few lines in this one scene just broke my delusion of optimism.
And we are supposed to believe, that Siuan always have a plausible explanation about "What exactly Moiraine are working on?" because that was the whole point of her task... Apparently.
For me, it was the end of the episode, when they make moiraine swear an oath, that is (without spoiling anything specific here) despised and seen as an abhorrend idea in later books. No aes sedai would stand by and watch someone being forced to swear this publicly.
This episode was probably written by one of the writers who never read the books... and never got an explanation of the Three Oaths.
(It's been admitted that some of the writers did not read the books.)
The "lore specialist" that they hired... had probably been sent off to write up notes on how a fake change to the script/books would affect things... until she turned into a nervous wreck.
The show-runner (in a tweet) has admitted to doing this... and laughed about it... thinking it's funny.
@@Nyet-Zdyes This scene bothers me so much because it's not just a violation of the source material but a violation of the lore even within the show. The show firmly established that Aes Sedai cannot lie.
@@kylefrandsen2665 Yes, but the show-runner will probably say it was just an unreliable narrator, in order to "excuse" the contradiction.
Just to try to help clear any confusion about Siuan and Moiraine's relationship in the books, this passage from the official Wheel of Time Companion book explains perfectly.
"She and Siuan became very close friends. As was common with a good many friendships in the cloistered society of novices, Siuan and Moiraine turned to one another more and more for comfort, and they eventually became pillow friends, continuing up to the time they were raised Aes Sedai and to some extent for a time thereafter. Neither was Lesbian; they were simply young women with normal libidos in a situation where they were cut off from the opposite sex."
Here's how I feel about this show. It is sort of like I went to a restaurant that years ago had made one of the best dishes I had ever eaten. I was then told that there was a cook who remembered the dish, had a copy of the recipe, and loved it too and would make it for me. The dish I received had the name of the dish was the same, but many of the ingredients that I expected to find and enjoyed had been replaced with new ingredients. When I inquired why it was so different when they had the recipe, only to be told that the chef felt that the dish needed to be reimagined to match the current menu.
only one issue is Rafe actually clearly hates the books.
As @bookcloaks said, for your sanity, if you are this mad of Episode 6, STOP. 6 is a masterpiece, the best ever script, next to Episode 8 written by Rafe Judkins. He even apologize later because everyone understood a scene, how is was written and portrayed, but that's not what he wanted to say hahaha.
The first 16 minutes of this show hurt a friend of mine so badly that he called me, screamed and told me that at this point he was aware why I was so upset with Game of thrones TV series. I never touched The wheel of time show and I warned him.
The first season of the game of thrones followed the book so well that I quit reading the book.
It was almost a shot for shot adaptation for the first season. This couldn't wait until the first scene to destroy the source material.
@@captgeesh5163That first scene change did so much damage to the world building. It is astounding the carelessness with which changes were made.
@@SHADOW1414 wasn't the first scene the red ajah hunting down that random dude? A made-up scene out of no where. Maybe I'm wrong, I've never rewatched this mess, but that's what I remember. It was there to establish "context" so they could cut Thom Merrilin out of the script. Lol.
The wait for the next episode analysis is torturous so I'm rewatching everything up to now again.
I appreciate your commentary and attention to detail with your reviews. It was heartbraking to watch what the TV series creators did to the WoT books/story.
It feels good to watch your videos!
I absolutely love your professional take on the writing and production of this series! Wonderfully insightful! And I feel for you everytime your sad music plays! Also, as a fan of cheesy Chinese martial arts films, I'm especially appreciating your liberal use of such footage! Cracks me up!
Wait?! I need to know if a River fisher person would fish in the ocean, or visa versa!! What the hell?! Best cliffhanger in season 1 of the show!
- Regarding the portal in Moiraine's room, (btw, I never noticed the continuity error with the furniture before 🤣), most of us book readers passed it off as a Ter'Angreal. Not sure if they've been mentioned to you in the show or the books yet. If so, ask and I'll expand on this thought. If not, well, these are things you'll learn about yet, so I won't spoil.
- Not sure if you followed any of the early controversy as the show first aired, but it was mentioned that Rafe Judkins, the showrunner, would send their Book Consultant, Sarah Nakamura out to get coffee while he and the writers made big show decisions. He also apparently sent Nakamura vindictively immature emails pretending to seriously ask her what consequences there would be later in the story if they turned a major character gay, or killed them off. He did this just to get a rise out of her, some sort of sick joke. Hearing him in interviews, he so smugly thought he was clever with this.
- Because you asked, and it's so inconsequential to reading the books that I don't think it'll hurt your reading in any way, shape, or form; Moiraine and Siuan don't have a sexual relationship in the books. At some point it's briefly eluded to that they were "pillow friends" while Novices together. Essentially Jordan's version "college experimentation", I think, although he never specified if it was a sexual thing, or just girls cuddling up at night, giving each other a shoulder to cry on, supporting each other in close comradery during their somewhat harsh White Tower training.
- Moiraine parading Egwene through the Sitter's Hall, (throne room), just shows that the writers weren't thinking about the very things they were trying to establish, like Egwene possibly being the Dragon, so Moiraine would want to keep her a secret from the others. No, instead they're so heedless of their own machinations that they obliviously forget to think about Moiraine's motives here, because _they_ already know Egwene isn't the DR, but forget that the viewers, and other Aes Sedai, aren't in on it. Just sloppy. In all honesty, I swear there must have been two or more groups of writers handling individual episodes, all working off the same outline, but none of them checking to see what the previous writers established in the previous episodes!
I am pretty sure that novices and accepted were not allowed in the sitters hall. But I could be wrong.
I am so happy to hear your comments in the first one minute of this! I'm sure I'll love the rest also, but I think you've hit the nail on the head already
these are some of the best WOT shit show review i have watched. And being a huge fan of the books . this show is just a slap to our face
You've taken the words straight outta my brain
Traveling aka portals, was a thing of legends. Aes Sedi could do it in the age of legends, but it is lost in the current time.
Opening the Way gates with the power has big repercussions to the story line of two of the main characters.
God I love you so much! You articulate so well how one feels so distraught und flabbergasted by what was put on screen. Thank you for these videos!
I am sorry to see you go theough this... But also its very vindicating to hear yet another smart and articulate person come out and say the things we got banned from Reddit for saying...
Great work. And sorry again. For what you have suffered through, and for what you are about to auffer with 7 and 8...
Walk in the Light.
Another excellent video. You are great at spotting the issues with the writing and changes.
When you speak at 1:03:00 of changing Moraine relationship with her friend to lovers. One of the writers went on twitter and activelly antagonized the fans of the book for disliking the changes in the show. Saying something to the effect of, "if he heard any more complaining about the representation in the show, he would make Perryn gay".
So it's highly possible the relationship of those two women was changed for motives outside of simply storytelling.
That was actually the show-runner... who IS a credited writer, as well... but he's also far more than just a writer.
I literally sit around waiting each week for you to review the next episode the same way people sat around each week. Waiting for a new episode of Game of Thrones. And you do not disappoint.
You point out so many things that I’ve noticed, and even stuff that I haven’t. I read the entire series 10 years ago and reread it before the show came out. The butterfly effect is even worse than you can imagine. Major plots from books way further down the line are completely destroyed like a thread from the pattern burnt out by balefire.
Moiraine in the show is a wet tissue compared to her in the book. We see her constantly fall to peer pressure, reverse psychology, and other social or mental tactics. In the book she would take that peer pressure, make a cutting comment about sheep following a dog, and then float away with grace. Moiraine is the short lady wearing the biggest pants in the first book, she has everything under control and even when things fall apart she has plans in play to cover for that... in the books.
And somehow that bumbling, clueless overaged adventurer is supposed to be not only better version of Moiraine, but also full-blown protagonist.
Yeah, the show really removed the subtleties of her character
Regarding Moiraine being a lesbian, she 100% is not in the main 14 books. Dead stop. In the prequel book “New Spring” which shows Moiraine/Siuan as novices in the tower, they are very close and always together. There is not a single POV chapter from either of them where they think or act out in any overt sexual way. They actually discuss being lonely and longing for a prince to marry and take them away but they realize their lives have taken them in separate paths. So Robert Jordan definitely didn’t specifically write anything that proves they had any kind of sexual relationship. There is one line from another young rival who says to someone else that Moiraine/Siuan are always together and she concludes they are “pillow friends”. Many who support the show relationship have pointed to this one line as proof that they are gay and lovers. But as you correctly point out, this addition to their relationship completely changes their dynamic and also requires changes to the entire plot and world lore with the traveling device in order to shoehorn in these sex scenes (apparently there will be more in S2).
Commentators, me included, tried to point out, that even in the New Spring they both clearly don't see "pillow friends" experience as something important, they never show any concern about their future relationship, and in the finale they separate in completely business-like manner.
Moiraine and Siuan almost definitely were pillowfriends at one point but yes it was more of a temporary thing that didn’t necessarily translate to a long term love interest
I did tweet that they needed to hire you for all these constructive reviews and editorials. They really need someone like you onboard >.
This shows the immense value of a competent editor. So glad TH-cam coughed this video up at me.
Hell just a set of eyes that doesn't have ego wrapped up in the production of a script is crazy valuable.
I'm convinced that your average Joe browsing the library comic book section would have been a better editor for these scripts than whatever they used.
Yeah, in just one conversation, Moiraine destroys the entirety of Book 2 and its central character motivations.
remember how show Nynaeve hated the Aes Sedai because of their elitism in turning away her mentor because she was poor? Well, ignore that because the poor little girl grew up to become the Amyrlin seat.
the inconsistency of their own writing is staggering.
they are going to use that discrepancy as a S2 plot point where they break down Nynaeve's misconceptions about the tower. Nynaeve will learn that her mentor was actually turned away for another reason.... it was just unreliable narrator. And thus is thematic for hte series. 🤪😜😆
@@pixcalcis A better explanation for this, being consistent with the books, would be that she was too old for them to enter into the novice books.
How do you feel about the cold open knowing that Tear is about 2000 miles DOWNriver from Tar Valon... And Siuan grew up in the slums of the major city of Tear, not a little mountain village... Also there are no mountains in the country of Tear...
Technically, technically... There's one mountain in Tear, and it's called Tear.
/humour
It's a major TV series, so they had only one location to portray various geographic zones.
Their editing was in california, they just had to look out trought he window to find the exact depiciton of TEAR! @@TheNightrider88
Get this woman into the WoT tv show writer's room! While I remain hopeful the show can turn itself around and really shine, it won't do it without really good writing. You make some great points in these videos and I hope future season's writer's room takes some of these into consideration.
You can call it airbending. That is clearly what inspired them 😆
Um. No. Avatar came out in 2005. Wheel of Time is 1990. It's the reverse.
@@urfaes6878Umm, no because in the books channeling looks nothing like air bending. That's a show only feature.
@@SHADOW1414 Disagree. Airbending, firebending, waterbending. That's, literally, all in the books. I get that the OP is speaking just about the show. That's cool. However, all of that already existed.
@@SHADOW1414 Just as an example, let's revisit the ferry since it's non-spoilery. So, was that waterbending or channeling?
Of course, it's channeling. So when does it become waterbending? It's fine to claim something. It's not fine to say, "This is airbending, so it comes from Avatar." No. This existed 15 years before Avatar.
@@urfaes6878 Your comparing tomatoes to potatoes. Sure, they're both nightshades, but they certainly aren't the same thing.
The concept of elemental magic long predates both airbending and channeling.
I loved the Pufferfish Rant falling into the Void. There is the Flame and the Void, nothing else. Oneness.
there are hints in the books that moiraine and siuan used to be "pillow-friends" but that relationship has certainly ended 20 years ago when they were made Aes sedai
In the books Moiraine sent two messages to Siuan before they met in Fal Dara, one saying she found the Dragon in the Two Rivers and the next saying there was a change in plan and that she was headed to Fal Dara, sent before they left Caemlyn. So Siuan already knows she has Rand, and she saw him when she entere and recognised his importance, which justifies why they take the time to reconnect briefly before getting to business when Moiraine comes to see her.
And Siuan sens him on his way alone in Shinear, wher she recognizes him with the firat glance as the dragon reborn.
"I don't know who is to blame for all of this"
His name starts with R and ends with afe.
In the show, Moiraine can sense saidin (the male half of the One Power) in Logain, but can't sense saidar (the female half of the One Power) in Nynaeve ... which implies that Moiraine can channel saidin.
In the show, the only reason Moiaraine or any other female aes sedai know Logain is strong is because they're shielding him while he is consistently pushing back, there are many reasons to criticize the show but this is not one of them.
@@battlebanshee8862but... Alanna says it's more difficult to hold a shield than break out of one. And it only takes two to keep him locked down for days, if not weeks. I feel like the comment is fair, if not particularly thorough.
The magic s stem is totally bungled
Thanks!
Wowee! Thank YOU 😊
Always comprehensive, thanks for your work
The writers are like: "Wait what? We can have more than one draft of the episode? D'oh!"
3K+ subscribers! Great to see you getting such a warm response, Amber! I like the memes expressing your inner turmoil. "It feels good to see you!"😅
Matt was never a villain. Mordred a guy from the old city created this kind of evil, which has nothing to do with the dark one. Its so infectous that the whole city did exterminate each other.
The amount of times the words “It is just Confusing” is needed to explain the show, is how everyone that ever saw it had to say to itself constantly all the way to the end.
11:40 Moiraine could have said her mission was “searching for very powerful welders of the One Power, and lo & behold, I found Nynaeve.” H/t Shadiversity.
Every word of which is true... But she does flat out say she didn't know how powerful Nynaeve was so...
On the Egwene ans Perrin in hospital scene, I have trouble believing that the Yellow Sisters would see Egwene and her insane potential and still don't care that Moiraine is keeping her secret.
The show runners don't know or care how the One Power works in the books.
Nynaeve is the genius healer, Ygweaine is good with ores and earth.
Regarding Liandrin's accusation about Moiraine, Nynaeve & Moiraine have never interacted in the sight of others before this episode. Their ONLY interaction was when Moiraine accosted her while scrubbing the "sacred pool". Nynaeve was kidnapped by a Trolloc and Moiraine left the village with the kids, and then Nynaeve caught up while Moiraine was unconscious, and was brought into the Aes Sedai camp, being carried, and then Liandrin had a conversation with Nynaeve, all while Moiraine is in the tents and chilling with the sisters. According to the show, Liandrin is the only Aes Sedai to talk to Nynaeve in between Winternight and her spontaneous channeling event.
I legit believe they don't even read their own scripts, or else forget them, and write each script thinking of the book as the background and their episode the first point of departure. Before Moiraine succumbs to her wound, the gang are talking about "if Nynaeve was with us" but why would they say that? She's not one of their buddies or their peer group. They might as well be saying "if Master Luhann the Blacksmith were here, he would be saying X". The writers scripted that conversation as if everyone was aware Nynaeve was a main character and a member of their "Fellowship".
It gets worse in Season 2, by the way. there are a number of comments that seem to reference events of _The Eye of the World_, rather than "Wheel of Time: Season 1." For example, at one point Egwene claims she is motivated to study the One Power saying that if she had been a better channeler, she could have made a difference at the Eye. But in the show, she did not go to the Eye, because she was not the Dragon Reborn, and any of them who were not the Dragon Reborn would die if they went. Egwene believed this, and argued in support of that idea on the show. And even if she did not, she was not given a choice and her channeling ability was not a factor. Rand left with Moiraine in an effort to exclude everyone but himself, not excluding all but the skilled channelers. Then there is the point that Egwene *did* make a difference while Rand was at the Eye, except it was in defending Fal Dara. Had she not been there, Amalisa might not have had the strength to kill the Trollocs, and there would have been no one to save Nynaeve from Amalisa's channeling excess killing her. Her stated motivation makes no sense. But in the book, she WAS at the Eye, she tried to channel and was ineffective and Rand's attempt to protect her from the danger she drew as a result, caused the Forsaken to pursue him. Had Egwene been better trained at the Eye of the World, in the book, she might indeed have made a difference. But they mixed up the book and show, if that was their intention.
Bahaha! You are so right about the script writers probably not reading their own scripts. I think I say it a few times in my reviews... these episodes feel like the first draft of a script... not the final draft. That is so cringe!
Robert Jordan was a war veteran who had seen and done a lot in his life.
Feels like the show writers a) didn't read the source material but only read the wiki blurbs if that and b) were straight out of high school that they were driven to each day by the stereotypical soccer mom. No experience whatsoever, no wonder the dialog is that abysmal.
I pity you having to watch these more than once. I understand why and I appreciate your dedication to this channel. Thanx.
Potential spoilers as its from the companion.
Logain is the 3rd strongest channeler in universe.
Logain can for lack of a better word man handle Nynaeve at her hieght.
In jordans rankings of power logain is a +12 and nyneave at her peek will be unknown but shes supposed to be stronger eventuqlly than cadsuane whom is a +10.
Currently nyneave is around a +8
Its just sad that they disrupted the power balance which asmodean discribes in book 4 as being likened onto strength
"A man is as much stronger in the power on average as a man is stronger than a woman physically"
What this means is you can have men that can barely channel jsut like you have weak men and you can have really powerful woman as well. However men plot further along the bell curve in strength.
This imbalance is mitigated in woman being more dexterous with weaves while men are more brute strength.
Also woman can link upto 13 to channel. At 13 not even a +12 man can stop the 13 weakest woman feom shielding him.
However men are required to increase the link to 72
and women can link without a man but men cannot link without women. That's a huge factor in the current age
I’m glad you’re on to book 2, get ready for some more, WTH moments looking back on season 1 as you read on.
As I understand it the show was having trouble with the horses so they had to give them up, possibly fear of the actors getting harmed.
Siuan and Moiraine was done for a couple specific reasons but we can’t talk about that without being labeled. Also if I remember correctly the show runner threatened anyone bothered by it that he would write more of the same into the show just to spite them.
The actor who portrays Padan fane, doesn’t seem to do a good “adaptation” from the book. But he also appears as a crazed person in the Halo show and everyone who saw that performance screams THATS PADAN FANE!!!
I think that the t!t$ scene was more of a showing the female form in a non-sexual nature rather than catering to the male audience.
I love that you made the comment about the repercussions of making changes to the story, significant changes. There are things that are going to happen in books 2 and 3 that will be seriously affected by the changes in season 1. And by extension the rest of the series.
The last episode is going to be a train wreck. You should really do a warm up, breathing and stretching exercises before watching it and reviewing it.
Moiraine and Siuan were « pillow friends » at the White Tower before becoming Aes Sedai. Since all the students are female during their puberty, and the White Tower is all women, it’s normal that their initial sexual explorations would be with whoever is available. It’s explicitly stated that for most this is a matter of necessity and is temporary, they mostly end up with men.
Not so for the Red Ajah for example. They mostly continue being with women.
That being the case, there’s more than enough lesbian characters that they could have moved forward in the story. Galina for example is explicitly stated as being gay. Siuan and Moiraine both end up in consequential hetero relationships.
I just don’t understand the thinking behind these wrecking ball type of changes. They’re unnecessary at best.
Yeah, it's even explicitly stated in the WoT Companion book that Moraine and Siuan aren't lesbian. I guess they never read that 🤪
@@roscoe2311 At this point I have to wonder if they read the books at all or just had it vaguely summarized by someone who’d read the synopsis a few years ago.
Right? And even if you wanted to say their relationship was still ongoing, that would be fine. Its a physical one where they take comfort in each other. But to say its a love that will last all their lives and into the next completely cuts out the other relationships these two have. Not that it matters with what they did to Thom I guess.
Only Elaida ever said that Siuan and Moiraine were pillowfriends as Novices, as a petty and spiteful taunt. It was never confirmed in any way by any trustworthy source or by any Moiraine or Siuan POV. I don’t believe that they were ever actually pillowfriends at all.
Toviene was a Red who liked men for one thing, she wanted to be the dominant partner.
It could be that many of the Reds are hetero and want a more balanced relationship outside of their work life, there are a few Reds who question the wisdom of not having warders.
It's pretty significant that they changed why they go to the Eye in the tv show. In the book Ba'alzamon is the one driving the story throughout the first book. We open with Ishamael confronting Lews Therin, then he attacks the Two Rivers, he hounds them across the land to Caemlyn, he seeds rumours of his attack on the Eye and then his agents use the party to be able to get to the Eye, which would only show up for the good guys in their time of need. It's very much his book, but now in the show Siuan has a prophetic dream that sends them there instead, fundamentally altering who has agency here.
But hey, instead they switched Baalzamon/Ishamael from deranged maniac with literally burning eye sockets to the... some guy dressed like an Orthodox Jew,
Avoiding spoilers has been a challenge. You're asking so many questions with answers, but answering them in any way could spoil things!
The prequel book has a few answers, like with Moraine's relationship with Suiane, for example. I'd be happy to tell you what I know about New Spring, if you don't mind.
As for this episode itself, it also makes Moraine look wildly incompetent; she's capable of healing, but she has another Aes Sedai look after Perrin instead, she can't come up with a good answer to Suiane's question, despite Linandrin handing an answer to her on a silver platter by complaining about Nynave, it's revealed the Blue Ajah has an extensive spy network, yet she didn't use it at all on the way to Tar Valon to track down the kids, and then she threatens to out Linandrin as straight to the Red Ajah, as if the Red Ajah would hurt any random man, and finally, if Nynave is so important to the tower, why is Moraine allowed to take her into exile?
1:25:00 Mat doesn't go because the actor left the production. They had to rewrite to take him out until he could be recast in season 2.
probably didn't take the thing in the arm that all the others would have
@@techsoul5590 apparently that was the reason
@@peterminos5604Nope. He was a no-show when he was due to resume filming in September 2020, which is *months* before the first vaccines received authorisation for use.
Doesn't fly, stop talking shite.
He didn't want yo risk a blood clot. Matt was supposed to be shorter than rand anyway.
@@techsoul5590A head's up that he (or at least someone on his behalf) have been sending out legal letters with the possibility of suing for slander related to claims that he'd be an anti-vaxxer. So I'd say that that was not the reason. Whatever the reason was, I'd guess the vaccine was not it.
Kung Pow clip! +1 Really enjoying your review of the series.
On the topic of Liandrin the Great, I feel like if the show could have given her a mustache to twirl, they would have. Look up, "Snidely Whiplash". That's what I picture anytime Liandrin is doing her thing. I look forward to a scene where Liandrin is caught, has a mask ripped off, and she says, "I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids and your stupid dog."
The show portrays her as a cartoon villain. That's about the nicest thing I can say.
The dialogue they cut in the love scene was the entire book of New Spring... But taken out of context with a magnifying glass on like a few lines...
But yeah, this show is made for non-readers right?
This show makes no sense if you haven't read the books, because it rests on background book knowledge from several books in the future... But if you have read the books, it makes no sense!😂
Completely agree, it's strange. It's like the show is aware that it was made for book readers but at the same time it destroys all the greatness of the source material
@@roscoe2311 yup. A script divided against itself cannot stand!
Episode 6-8 REALLY fell off a cliff to me, so I’ve been looking forward to your take.
I stopped watching at Season 7. When they ruined Min, I had had enough.
Dude, did you just seriously reference Kung Pow Enter The Fist?! *bows* By my life or death, you have my sword!
The tower politics in this show are jr. High level at best. The problem is the show runners are stupid, which makes it hard for them to write smart characters.
Remember Game of Thrones when Tyrion finds his sister's spy by promising to marry her daughter off, but giving each potential spy a different name, then waiting to see what name his sister comes back with? That was smart. There's a Korean show called The Arthdal chronicles, which has just tons of great political maneuvering and constant back stabbing. Its great. This show has people that are supposed to be brilliant, but are basically Mean Girls with magic.
I really advise you to watch the end of the series in a room where you have nothing you could break in a episode of rage.
One small correction; in the book, the dagger was stolen from Fal Dara before Mat could be healed.
55:08 Possible spoilers, mainly about lore:
The wheel doesn’t have an intent per se. It does seem to seek balance though, as it is the tool of the creator to spin out the pattern of the ages. This leads characters in the book to personify the wheel, like “I feel like gravity is pulling me down” or “the storm seems angry tonight”.
"Hopefully it's just downstream to get to Tar Valon" - Yeah... just downstream... and through several countries... xD
"Row, row, row your boat/Gently down the stream/Belts off, trousers down/Isn't life a scream?/Whoa!" (c)
Downstream is the opposite direction 😅 its like I wanna get to Minnesota via the Mississippi but I'm starting in st Louis and headed to the gulf
@@TheNightrider88 Thank you, George.