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Greek Prime minister Venizelos said to his European peers in 1920: "If you give Muslims Constantinople you will see them in Paris by 2050" Obviously exagerated but in the same vein, (and strangely prophetic).
Greek Prime minister Venizelos said to his European peers in 1920: "If you give Muslims Constantinople you will see them in Paris by 2050" Just think about it for a moment, Resistance time is now
What does this have to do with massive North African and black immigration to France? How could Greek possession of Constantinople prevent this? Do you ever think before you say something?
@@aguilarraliuga1777 North Africa is muslim and arab. My question was how would Greek possession of Constantinople prevent arab invasion of France? They are completely unrelated.
@@Anon-zh4bs obviously you don't understand how the ballance of power works. If Constantinople(aka most important city in geopolitical terms) was Christian then Europe's status as a whole would be much different. Not a single powerhouse in the continent would remain untouched. Now pick your bugs and go back to Algeria
If they gave it to the Greeks? We would've seen the Russian and the SLAVIC Brotherhood in Portugal on the Atlantic Coast line , making plans for invasion of Americas. Greece was a Russian state by proxy at the time. Modern Turkey is a PENICILLIN for the Russian world! Unfortunately Greece is part of that world.
The West should have better supported the Greeks, Armenians and Assyrians in this time period. The brutality of the Turks (+ their underlings) during this era is almost unparalleled in written history. The situation is obviously complicated like any situation. But it sticks out to me as a student of history. PS- I welcome any Turks whataboutisms with open arms.
To be fair to Turkey, Greece isn't shy of committing their fair share of atrocities Atça is a prime example of this as the Greeks practically burned the city to ashes The truth is there is no winner in war sadly, everyone suffers loses and everyone commits horrible atrocities whether we like it or not
@@justagreekhistorian Yes, what I was referring to with the situation is complicated. It’s not like those innocent victims don’t matter. And while we’re at it, I sort of understand why the Entente didn’t exert more might/will right after ww1, they were exhausted manpower wise and their populace had ptsd from the horrors that just happened
@@justagreekhistorian turks made us slaves for hubders of years they stole are land the still occupy Cyprus they killed millions of us and u say we did the same attrocities because we burned some villages during war as a strategy to slow down the enemy
@@xanshen9011Nah i believe Greece is as old as India if not Older they are feeding us a lot of lies. I know ancient Greeks believed that Gid Dionisus taught Indians all their arts and civilized them and gave them their culture
As a Greek I can say that westerners really didnt want a greater or stronger Greece. They supported more the turks. Now we have all of us take the results of that....
It was the westerners who helped create a greek identity in a very mixed nation filled with turks, slavs, albanians, bulgars etc. This national greek identity that correlates ro the ancient times has pretty much nothing to do with the ancestry of 90% of 'greek' people. Instead, the new rules became that if you were orthodox you became greek, if you were a muslim you were a turk. Very simplistic view espwcially since the orthodox fate only reached greece due to the slavic imvasions. Greece got too ethnically mixed a long time ago, but the west needed a united greece to go against the ottomans and it worked wonders. The only group in greece who was against this unity building were the albanians of cameria who were then massacred. The truth is Istanbul is turkish now and has been for over 7 centuries. It is irrelevant what greeks (who mostly share nothing in common with their ancestors) would claim is just. @@Ελλάδα-ω3θ
@@Ελλάδα-ω3θthe west helped create the greek state in the first place. By enforcing a narrative of greeks of the 19th century being direct ancestors of the ancient hellens and making a 'greek' an orthodox christian is what helped make an ethnically diverse land of turks, bulgars, slavs and albanians into a Greek nation. Truth be told, 90% of modern greeks share practically no lineage to the ancient hellens, and the arvanites remain the closest direct ancestors. The west needed a strong greece to stand up to the ottomans and cause rebellions. They would however never let an artifical state lay claim to a city that wasnt in the rule of their people for 700 years while being the most important city on earth
As An Italian It Hurts And Disappoints Me To Know We Went Against You Greeks In Your Claim For Eastern Rome, What Was HQ Thinking When We Supported The Turks With THE SOVIETS?! We Should Want Nothing But A Strong Greece In Our East Since As Many Tend To Forget Rome Was Split In Two And Having The East Already Covered Would Only Make Things Easier For Us, We Should Only Claim The West, The East Is Legitimately Greek. Mare Nostrum Was Once Shared With The East, And It Can Be Shared Again, Dosen't Make Sense To Backstab Our Bros In The East Doing The Exact Same Thing As Us. We Were Taking Mostly Lands With Italians In Them, Greece Was Mostly Taking Land With Greeks In It But The Final Goal Was One And The Same, Restore The Eagle, Why Would Anyone Support An Attack On Greece?
Italians were always against the Greeks in the whole history. Italians are the only ones I cannot forgive, as a Greek. I could accept anyone to betray us except the Italians, and the Italians did that many many times. I always come to the conclusion that except Cyprus (our blood brothers) and Armenia - Serbia (our brothers), only France treated Greece in a quite good manner. Anyway, each country goes its own way and its own destiny. At least the Greeks have never harmed any Westerners, that's why we are proud and clean.
@@Ελλάδα-ω3θΔεν πειράζει αδελφέ, έχουμε τους αδελφούς μας τους Κύπριους και μετά τους Αρμένιους και τους Σέρβους. Αυτοί μας νιώθουν και μας καταλαβαίνουν καλύτερα.
Great Video as always, I would just like to add one minor detail. It is very likely that Cyprus would join Greece after decolonization, as the Greek majority of the Island demanded this even in our timeline and in this scenario, the Turks wouldn’t be in a position to really oppose this.
@@justagreekhistorianTurks would oppose it however can’t say they would last long against EOKA without a strong Turkey. And a weaker Turkey also makes the operation towards the island very unlikely.
@@kyratean That was also my thought. Of course the large Turkish population on the Island would still be against it, but in this timeline the Turkish state is way weaker and can’t really intervene in their behalf, so the plan probably goes through.
I ve heard today that Americo Vespuki was baptised as Homer called as a child Homerico(Omerico) which was distorted later as Americo. So basicaly America is Homerica(Omerica)
@@ΙωάννηςΕλ Yes very much indeed my dear Greek brother. If we go together then we will get stronger. Even the Scandinavia countries wish to be one country so that they can stand stronger. If we become one country then no one can ever harm and destroy us!
@@delaramsalmassi4063At least Irani people never spoke bad for is and Iram never damaged Greece .... Our "friends"" always wanted amd smaller weaker and poorer Greece...
A few corrections: after ww1 Italy had no ambition to recreate a Roman empire, Italians were revolting and the army had almost vanished so the only aim after ww1 was to stay alive and avoid communism (that's why Mussolini came to power even if he was anti-monarchist).
If Greece won the Greco-turkish war, all westerners and turks would be unhappy and the Greeks-Armenians-Kurds happy. The answer is just simple. Έχεις κάνει καταπληκτική δουλειά μεγάλε, συγχαρητήρια. 🇬🇷💙🤍
The video is epic but I think Bulgaria would have helped Italy invade Greece in the first invasion which would likely succeed. The only reason Bulgaria didnt help Italy in our timeline is because turkey threatened to get involved, which likely wouldnt have happened here.
Guys we all know that turks, Bulgarians, Albanians, Italians and so on, were and are against Greece. Do not show that in every comment. It is anti-human.
Great video my greek brother. Cannont wait to see the turkish nationalists to comment😅. As an italian with many greek ancestries, im' ashamed about the invasion of greece in 1941, i see greece as our brothers, since the roman era. 🇮🇹❤🇬🇷
Man has gone the entire video without mentioning Cyprus. I think that in this timeline the British might just let Cyprus become part of Greece, in a way to appease the appetite for reunification
Ωραίο βίντεο φίλε μου! Αλλά είσαι λίγο biased βέβαια για παράδειγμα δεν χρειάζεται να μεγαλώσουν τα σύνορα στην ζώνη της Σμύρνης. Επίσης με το θέμα με τους Ιταλούς, οι πιο πολλοί Ιταλοί ήταν στα αρχιδια τους για την Ανατολή. Κυρίως τους ένοιαζε η Αλβανία και η Δαλματια όχι η Ανατολία. Κομμάτια της Ανατολία τους την δώσανε για να μην είναι νευριασμενοι που δεν πείραν την Δαλματια
Καλά ότι έχω bias δεν το αρνούμαι, αν και προσπαθώ να το ρίξω όσο γίνεται Η επέκταση της ζώνης της Σμύρνης θεωρώ πως θα γινόταν όμως διότι σε αυτό το σενάριο η Ελλάς είχε μια ολοκληρωτική νίκη Όσο αναφορά τους Ιταλούς, τα ανέφερα αυτά στο βίντεο για να δείξω ότι ο φασισμός δεν αποφεύγεται και ότι ο Μουσολίνι πάλι θα έπαιρνε την εξουσία της χώρας
@@justagreekhistorian πρώτον δεν υπάρχει λόγος να επεκτηνουμε την ζωή της Σμύρνης διότι η Ζώνη της Σμύρνης είχε ήδη αρκετούς Τούρκους, και αφού επεκταθεί τώρα τι; θα έχουμε ακόμα πιο πολλούς; Βέβαια αν ήταν να επεκταθεί θα επεκτηνοταν στις ακτές της Μικράς Ασίας. Καλά για την Ιταλία βγάζει κάπως νόημα ότι απλά δεν ήθελες να αναφέρεις άλλες περιοχές σαν την Δαρδανία και κάνεις περίπλοκο το βίντεο.
Lovely video! I do wonder though if the Greeks would have trouble after the Greco-Turkish war with refugees from the Pontic coast. Also, during WWII... Turkey: We have joined the Axis! Greece: Hey what's the big idea? Turkey: Oh, don't worry we have also joined the Allies. Greece: We'd laugh, but our only territorial claims are against our staunch ally Britain, so we feel ya. [Turkey, Greece fist-bump]
As a Turk I just wanna add some little details. Firstly until it became the center of the Kemalist movement Ankara was a city of no significance and in real life Greeks got so close to it that plans to move the capital to the Kayseri was prepared. I don't understand why losing a tiny city with a(at the time) 15k people would result in the collapse of the whole movement. Secondly during the Turkish-Armenian war of 1920 Kazım Karabekir had already decisively beaten the First Armenian Republic and was marching towards Yerevan before Soviets intervened and saved them then annexed Armenia to USSR. Treaty of Kars between Soviets and Turkey had already largely finalized the border between the two nations. Repealing the treaty would meant giving all the territory to the Comunist Soviets which I doubt either UK or France would support. Other than that fun little video, nice work.
Hey, thank a lot for the support! I wanna say that I mentioned that the movement would fall when the Greeks reach Ankara just for convenience In real life the odds were basically stacked against Greece so having to add every little detail on the war seems kinda pointless As for Armenia, in the script I seem to remember to have given Armenia to the Turks for this exact reason, but upon looking at the script before I was finished, I realized I never made that reference Regardless, if this treaty does get implemented, why would all of Armenia have to be directly given to the Soviets? Although, I agree it's probably more realistic for Turkey to keep their share of Armenia tbh, it just made the video more interesting
Soviets invaded Armenia as your baddies did together in the same time not '''saved Armenia''' Armenia even did a revolution and kept Armenia out of the soviet for almost 45 days the only country in the caucasus take your turkish propaganda out of here invaders
On your first question, Ankara was indeed an irrelevant city at the time but if the Greeks had capture it then Kemal would have been immediately dethrone by his comrades
@@dionysise5008 Nope. He would keep on fighting. The idea of abandoning Ankara to give the army the ability of radical maneuvers was very, very popular at the time
@@MulayimSert1 he is correct.. so far he had zero wins against Greeks and anxiety kicked in because Greeks had almost reached Ankara deep inside Turkey.. It was his last gamble.. win it all or lose it all.. also dont forget that other political parties were fighting to control Turkey(Sultan)...
The turks will never acept . They will always fight for Anatólia and will win because Ataturk and is movemente is a excepcional movement. In the best case is like Argélia.
Good video, but I think you neglected how important Soviet support of Turkish rebels was towards the end of the war. You also didn’t mention anything about population exchange, like what would happen to the large Turkish population in Smyrna. In our timeline the Greek refugees from Anatolia, mostly Pontus, repopulated northern Greece after Bulgarians were removed, but if greater armenia is established then those Greeks wouldn’t have been forced to leave and much of this version of Greece would either be empty or not have a Greek majority, specifically the regions in Thrace, Macedonia, and western Anatolia.
Nice video, also I have a suggestion-so in 13th century polish prince of Mazowsze province (Konrad Mazowiecki) was struggling with invasions from native pagan prussian population so he called teutonic knights (that were going back from crusade) to help him out in exchange for land later they would be main polish enemy leading to creation of Poland Lithuania, and Prussia as we know it I think it could be intresting idea to make a video "What if Poland didnt call Teutonic knights for help"
You say turks burned the city of izmir but it's the opposite? The greeks done horrific things to resisting Turks both in coming and leaving. Yeah, I'm not greek. How did you know?
The Greeks did commit atrocities to Turkish cities (Prime example being Atça) but Smyrna was burned by the Turks I repeat: SMYRNA was burned by the Turks There is a difference -> Smyrna is the name of the largely Greek populated city that existed in Asia minor Izmir is the city that replaced it Yes yes I know technically it's the same city but Izmir is just so unlike Smyrna that I can't really say for myself that they are the same city Back on topic, The Greeks did do horrific things to Turks, not Greeks! And that's logical, as in a war there are no winners, as both sides commit horrific atrocities
If only they would hold Smyrna and took Constantinople with the areas around instead of marching towards Ankara ,maybe today we would have a different name as Greeks perhaps Byzantium, surely bigger population, bigger economy , power, strategic impact, etc …. Just Imagine we were so close … but west betrayed us like 1204 or worse…
I mean, trying to march to Ankara, into the depths of Turkey was a doomed plan from the start If they had stayed in Smyrna, perhaps history would have turned out differently indeed
@@justagreekhistorian the plan was doomed when our beloved allies stoped their economic support after the change of the Greek leadership. The Greek army until then, never lost a battle.
@@ilkerorhan8017 You can't make this up Turks like you paint the entire nation in the most horrible light Saying that the killing of a bunch of innocent civilians is an ACHIEVEMENT? Really now, some human empathy You never see Greeks brag about atrocities being committed towards Turks because we are not proud You nationalists can't even take one moment to pay respect to any innocent life that was lost during the Greco-Turkish war Who cares to which population group does Anatolia belong? The population exchange could have been peaceful and all would have been fine, but nope, it wasn't and you bragging about it shows how little empathy for fellow human lives you have And for the record, the fact you've been in the Area since 1071 doesn't mean anything because Smyrna (modern İzmir) was Greek until 1922 where most Greeks were kicked out and the city was burnt to the ground Please keep your nationalist ideology to yourself
I'm Italian and this video is particularly biased and Italians have never financed the Turks in the Greco-Turkish war. Smirnia had been promised to the Italians with the London Pact only because the Greeks had not yet entered the war on the side of the Entente.
The Italians didn't financed the Turks directly Rather they support them diplomatically and retreated from their occupied territory, leaving all weapons for the Turks to take Greece and Italy were competitors then, it was more of a passive thing rather than an active thing though The ones who really supplied the Turks were the Soviets Also yes, the London pact was undone with the treaty of Sèvres
@@justagreekhistorian in any case until the coming of Mussolini Italy never had plans or ideas of wanting to form a new Roman Empire, she wanted to unify all the Italian speaking territories you can also see from the fact that they withdrew the troops from the Panfilia region.
While this is a realistic scenario, you could have gone in a slightly altered direcrion. If you wanted to get more creative with it, Greece could get in a war with Albania, over the issue of Northern Epirus, or you could have had Turkey invade the Greek portion of Anatolia (since the Germans would have a harder time landing there on their own). Also, the issue of Cyprus could be tackled. And perhaps a stronger Greece, with the inclusion of Northern Epirus, could have some sort of extra claims on fascist Italy or Bulgaria. Also, the political landscape would be really interesting. I imagine that since Alexander lived on and cooperated with Venizelos, the kingdom would not be abolished. The National Schizm would effectively end with the complete ousting of Constantine and a reconciliation between the now pro-British crown and Venizelos. Venizelos in this timeline is hailed as a National hero by all sides, and is respected even by the royalists, for retaining the kingdom, the only party who would dislike him are the communists. With the kingdom continuing its existence into the interwar, under a system similar to the British, the country would be much more stable and there wouldn't be the many coups of our timeline. Pangalos wouldn't rule the country, meaning the 1925 Petrich incident wouldn't happen, or at least it probably wouldn't escalate in the same way. The country wouldn't be destroyed, so it could probably react better to the 1923 Italian occupation of Corfu. In this time, Greece would have a stronger alliance with Yugoslavia, and perhaps even an alliance with Romania and Poland, expanding the Little Entente into the Miedzymorze (Intermarium), which would be on the side of the Allies. Perhaps Bulgaria and Albania are occupied by this alliance, at least for some time. Maybe Greece liberates the Dodecanese islands from its Anatolian holdings. With the Soviets splitting the Intermarium with the Nazis, the war essentially sees the Soviets and Nazis on the same side against the Allies, meaning that Barbarossa is postponed to the point where it might not even happen. Or, conversely, with the addition of Turkey into the war, Germany makes better progress in the Caucasus, causing Stalingrad to fall. Maybe the Americans drop the nuke on Germany instead of Japan in this timeline. I just think this timeline would see both Greece and Turkey be a lot more proactive instead of reactive than irl. Which could throw the war in a completely different direction Still, a great video nonetheless. You gained a subscriber
Thanks a lot for the support mate! Indeed the whole geopolitical situation is very interesting and there is a lot more to this scenario I didn't cover However, Barbarossa would still happen as the Germans had in mind liebestraum (the expansion in the east) so it is unlikely they'd give that up but yeah it would be more creative that way
Φίλε μου το βίντεο σου είναι πολύ καλό και συγχαρητήρια γι' αυτό! Μου αρέσει τρελά που ξεχωρίζεις ότι είσαι Έλληνας, μέσα από την αγγλική σου προφορά. Εντάξει ωραίο 😄😀
Except of the survivor of Alexander the 1st , there is the scenario to making king another son of Constantine, as his son George 1st, who making king first time in September 1,923a.b.c.c.-
Very nice video like the others , i have been watching your channel since the 2nd video and i gotta say i love your vids I would of liked to see two things though , firstly if greece was to win the war i belive that they would gain more land like hraklia of pontus and nikaia Secondly i would of liked to see the diplomacy of greece after ww2 and also , since greece is bigger and the economy was going up i feel like , except federacion , there wouldnt be any significant other comunist party , thus greece would of been able to get more in the peacedeal like northen epirus or even an expanded northen epirus even towards elbasan , burgos , maybe plovid or cyrene too . something else could begreece would gain pontus , sure genocides had happened but the coastal areas were still majority greek finally i would like to see if greece could of been involved in the russian invasions of ukraine to get majority greek cities like mariupol , , thats all , love your vids man and im happy to see a greek youtuber
29 August 1824 Naval Battle of Gerondas(Gerontas). Turks and their Allies Egyptians were battling against defender Greeks. But Tunisian and Algerian battle ships were coming to help the Turks and Egyptians against Defender Greeks. The result of Naval Battle? Greeks won the naval battle of Gerontas,the Egyptians accepted damage to their ships and the Naval Boss of Tunisian Ships,get arrested from Greeks. 1 Vs 4.
The Ottoman Sultan would be closely tied with Greece (in case of instability) therefore Turkey would become a semi independent vassal of Greece to some extent leading the Turks to support Armenia, though diplomatically
Ok thanks! I was just wondering if Turkish Nationalism would take over. This is one of the few scenarios I’ve seen with Greece and Turkey as Allies even after Greece gained its lands
It certainly wasn't the biggest problem Greece was facing. A battered economy, a demoralised military, a discontented population and a fractured society were far bigger problems. But the return of king Constantine, a guy who the entente didn't like, due to his pro-German tendancies was the excuse the entente needed to withdraw support from Greece
For the Constantinople there was two scenarios, from Wilson, president of the U.S.A. and Venizelos prime minister of the Greece, for a religious state, as the Vatican, with his leader the patriarch of the Constantinople.-
We would formulate an alliance, a confederation most likely with Armenians. Combined with Armenian skills and the resources of our lands in Anatolia we would not only formulate great industries(having also direct access to Iraqi oil) but combined with the fact that by reclaiming Constantinople we would have Bosporus and the fact that we are number 1 in shipping in the world, Greece would have become a great naval and industrial superpower that could easily counter England and the USA and France. And of course this is something that was not in the interests of any western power, which explains why our western ''allies'' backstabbed us.
Great video but I would like to say 2 things Firstly, an an event of a Hellenic victory in the greco-turkish war the greeks probably wouldn't restore JUST Armenia in the redrawn treaty, instead it would be a union between Armenia and Pontus, so an armeno-pontic union Secondly, we need a part two if possible
I feel like making a Pontic-Armenian state is pretty pointless since if I remember correctly the Pontic and Armenian genocides have already taken place which means these areas would also have significant Turkish populations But yeah it's also a possibility As for a part two, I don't really know what to do next, like okay say Greece takes Constantinople and the end like there isn't much to continue the scenario so yeah Thanks for the support!
@@justagreekhistorian a part two idea I think you should do is turning Greece into an involved major power in the MIddle East. As such, renewed conflicts between Armenians, Kurds, Assyrians and Turks, notably in the Van bassin region, would, by the time after 1945, cause the Soviets to try and stabilize the region. This would make Greece a massively important Western ally, in order to secure the Middle and Near East's alliegance to the West. As such, Greek-funded Armenian guerrilas would lead a massive revolution against the Soviets, backed by the Turks and Kurds and Assyrians and Ponts and Laz's and Georgians and Azerbaijanis and Caucasian Tartars and White Russians and so on and so forth, not to mention immediate backing by the Western powers. I see this revolution winning for 2 key reasons; Firstly, Soviet presence in the region being recent, consolidation of support would be extremely low among the highly conservative and religious Armenian majority of Western Armenia ( due to a return of Genocide survivors, numbering about 3 million in the 1940's, while Armenian victory in Western Armenia would cause a massive flow of Muslim imigrants to Turkey, similar to the flow of turks from Armenia to Azerbaijan in the 1991 victory, leading to the loss of muslim-christian 50-50 in north-western armenia, as south-western armenia was already a majority Armenian region due to it's highly depopulated nature after the caucausus front (estimates place the population of the Lake Van bassin and surroundings at 600.000 after the Turkish War of Independance), hence leading to a 75% Armenian state, backed by Kurdish minorities in Western Armenia who had benifeted of religious freedom and major minority rights as to isolate the Turks, who would be less than 10% at this point.) Hence, Almost 90% of the country in favour of the revolt, not to mention inevitable British, French, Turkish and Greek immediate "humanitarian aid" (undemrining Soviet influence by occupying major cities and ceeding administration to the rebels), this'd see Soviet collapse in Western Armenia and the entirity of the Caucausus, excluding Eastern Azerbaijan (the Black Sea coast, formerly owned by the Centrocaspian dictatorship, basically all of Azerbaijan excluding Karabakh and Ganja, the latter becoming the Democratic Azeri Republic and Karabakh joining Armenia for it's 93% Armenian population, as well as Georgian independance. In a sea of newborn republics, the Greeks would be given the task to lead them to the West in democratization and peacekeeping, essentially becoming the USA of NATO. They'd most probably form economic and political unions of Anatolia and the Caucausus, ending Greek-Turkish and Turkish-Kurdish-Armenian animosity. With the decolonization of Britain, this new alliance would seek to establish it's dominance over the Middle East; British Iraq's Assyrian and Kurdish regions would inevitably become an immediate warzone, northern Syria as well for it's prominent Assyrian and Kurdish majorities. In short, this would see Greece leading a coalition against the Arab World, backed strongly by Lebanon, seeking to free itself of it's Arab neighbour's influences, religiously and politically, Turkey, Armenia, Kurdistan, and Assyrian leagues for independance, against an Arab union. To prevent a unification of Baathist and Arab republics, the Greeks would be quick to prompt divisions within the Arab World, leading much of the middle eastern republics into civil war, heavily backed by American money to destroy Socialist Arab ambitions; Iraq would collapse quickly into a civil war beetween Shi'ites, Christians and Sunnis; Syria would fall into a similar-to-irl civil war of Pro-Western forces vs Pro-Eastern, also joined in by Pro-Collapse (minorities seeking to form their own states in Der-Ezzor or Rojova, respectivally Assyrians and Kurds). I think this is an extremely interesting idea to follow. Pls make a part 2...
What would your views on the difference in greek music in this alternate timeline. Without the refugees from anatolia would rembetiko then laiko be created which would mean a very different greek music for today?
That's an interesting view which didn't even cross my mind I have no idea how to predict this but it is indeed very possible that music would end up extremely differently
@@noktafullstop點 huge empire?Gigantic it was at 1821 with whole huge islamic world on their back and whole europe supporting them just like 1923 but Greece didnt have traitors on the head this time and turgay was oblitarated 1 vs 100. As foe who is ga y just look at ottoman traditional homobelly dance
They didn't flee from Smyrna though, they fled to Eastern Thrace? Also it's whatever to make fun of military defeats but we are taking about innocent lives being slaughters? I am sure you wouldn't want your house being burned, your family killed and you barely surviving and struggling in a city foreign to you?
@@justagreekhistorian İzmir* dont act like u didnt slaughtered innocent lives when u invaded anatolia so they would flee from the lands u occupied. Move on, these lands arent yours and will never be, use the correct names.
@@cenk.3467 I don't have a Turkish keyboard and I cannot type İ Also I never denied the Greek slaughters? (Though you using "you" like I am personally responsible is weird) Let alone make fun of the Turks that were killed? When it comes to city names, I am just calling them whatever they were called at the time Sure, today it's Izmir or İzmir but then it was Smyrna and fact is it had been that way for well over 2 thousand years I never claimed the lands, the cities are clearly Turkish today I mean the population is majority Turkish so I can't really do anything about that
@@justagreekhistorian I know u cant type İ just say Izmir, i dont say selanik instead of Thesallonoki or atina instead of Athens because i find it disrespectful, whoever owns the city also gets to change the name and it should be used by everybody, also i didnt make fun of innocent lives getting slaughtered and when i say "you" im refering to Greeks and since you are a Greek and we are arguing i dont see a problem about saying "you" refering to your race, im sorry if that was disrespectful to you. I said "dont act like u didnt slaughtered innocent lives" because u talked about what we did in the video but not about the Greek atrocities.
@@cenk.3467 Okay, thanks for clarifying, like that "you" really confused me. Also I do say Izmir when refering to modern day, in fact in the original script I wanted to add after that part "Smyrna was no more and the city of Izmir would be built on top of it" but I felt like I was stretching the thing waay too far, like the video wasn't about atrocities Most of the time, I try to avoid it, mainly because youtube doesn't like it when these types of details are shared Though, I do admit that not mentioning the Greek atrocities while mentioning the Turkish ones is a fault on my bit And the reason why I said you are making fun of innocent lives is because you said "jumped into the aegean sea" which is used by many nationalistic Turks on the internet to make fun how the Greek populations were trying to swim for their lives while the Turks entered into Smyrna I don't really agree with the fact that the Greeks burned the city though? I mean the Greek army fled to formerly Rodesto (I don't know how it is in Turkish sorry) Lastly, when it comes to city names, I don't really bother that much, it's the same city no matter how you call it I mean, sometimes the different names can have different meanings, for example Smyrna can be used pre-1922 but not after Constantinople is used for the capital of the Byzantine Empire, however modern Istanbul has expanded beyond the boundries of that city. Me personally I am not offended if someone called Athens Atina or Salonika Selanik, as long as there is clearness in which city we are talking about Anyways, I personally have nothing against Turks or Turkey, I just made this video because 1) I reached 1000 subscribers, so I wanted to do a video which I was confident would be realistic and 2) I have been taking scenario requests since the very start of my channel, and one of the first request I got was What if Greece won the Greco-Turkish war So yeah, that's all, take care!
Well the turks woon cuz the soviet union gave some good weapons to turkey BYW the photo in 0:59 you cam find the photo on a book in greece school 3rd grade γυμνασίου or for American style 9th grade
a wise man once said; "If my grandmother had wheels, she would be a bike" there was no way greeks won the battle of attrition. there wasnt even proper roads to chase Turkish nationalist movement. thats why they couldnt set up supply lines. also Turks already defeated armenians and secured eastern border. in south french didnt want another campaign and left. greece was already left alone since they wanted constantinople for themselves, not for british
What's the point of this video?? Probably we would keep our cities and populations safe. But it's over now. It's better to get the lesson ( be proactive and know who your real friends and enemies are) and focus on the present.
as a turk i have to say istanbul= headache. İn 2024 world, even now turkish people trying to run europe.13 million immigrant in turkey incredible situation. İn this scenerio tukey has no power to stop migration. Greeks would be a minority population in their own country, like ottoman empire with turkish people. Probably real end is the best and for greece.
Quoting another comment I responded to; "This is not modern day, where Istanbul has a higher population than all of Greece Back in 1920, before the population exchanges, Greeks made up about 40% of the city and that applies to many other places, notably Smyrna which was majority Greek On top of that, if the Greeks did indeed win, most Turks will flee and possibly alternate population exchanges would take place, making the new borders permanent But yes, if Greece did takes these lands in the modern day, it would indeed be majority Turkish" Also I am not anywhere near close to being certain about what would happen in the modern day in this scenario, so I think it's better to leave it at the 1960s, where I can at least reasonably predict what can happen
And that's the reason why your society is sheet. Turkish society is "eat or be eaten" and it's full of violence. That's why every Turk is begging to move to Germany and even to small countries like Belgium who can't "fight alone" but they created a CIVILIZED society.
@@MehmetGuler-oh9bm nations can also develop science and humanity and not only fighting. Fights is not everything g. It is the most primitive thing if you think like that. What a medieval culture.
Tbh i don't think Greece would get more of Inland Anatolia but more of the coast because thats where the Greek population lived. And it is also possible Britain just gives Constantinople to Turkey because if the Turks lose theyre gonna be ruled by the Ottomans and basically be a british puppet
Keep in mind that in this alternate timeline, the Ottoman Empire is a weak, backwards state, unable to compete with Greece or any other Great Power The British giving Constantinople to Turkey is like begging for the City to get conquered by the Greeks in a follow up war Here, the Sultan is not just a British puppet but also a Greek and a French one The Greeks would undoubtably get a lot of influence over the Sultan, turning Turkey into a semi-independent protectorate
I don't disagree lol I made this video, not to say "BRING BACK MEGALI GREECE!" but rather to celebrate reaching 1000 subscribers Since I am Greek, it only made sense to make a Greek centered scenario
No westerner supports war. It's only a "what if" scenario. We leave wars to Turks who never stopped having wars with all their neighours and they have NOTHING to brag about, other than wars.
I fail to understand why human rights is connected (mainly) to Greece. Are ordinary people in other countries not worthy of human rights? Greece is exemplary in one regard. The "Human rights index" (by "Global Change Data Lab") for Greece was 0.8 points in 2023, out of 1. Maybe you mean that Greece fails in another regard. It has good laws but many can bypass them. The "Human rights and rule of law index" (by "Global Economy") for Greece was 3.6 points in 2022, out of 10.
I don't disagree with the fact that this was a horrible idea Greece could have stayed in Smyrna, going further - in the majority Turkish areas - was pretty pointless and only resulted in defeat
As an Italian, I would suggest a what if scenario which is very unknown in medieval history, and was never explored by anyone but it could be really significative if well-realized: What if Berengar of Friuli was able to mantain his power and his successors: during his reign, which spanned from 888 to 924, he was the first king of Italy to recive the title of Holy Roman Emperor, which made the Italian kingdom the whole HRE itself and not controlled by any other power, as happened in our timeline when Otto I conquered in 962 Italy and become emperor. This scenario would basically mean that Italy would have become a centralized kingdom as happened for France and England, and maybe it could also conquer in the long term even the small lombard principalities of Salerno and Benevento, as well the still Roman controlled lands of Apulia and Calabria, recreating the full unity of the Peninsula which was lost since the death of Justinian. Also this strenghing of central autority over the kingdom would basically mean that it’s difficult for Italian republics as Genoa, Pisa would form (Venice was still a tecnical vassal of Constantinople, and would probably be preserved thanks to it’s extremly difficulty to siege the mainland, because of it’s swampy territory.
There is a video by Neatling (coincidentally published yesterday) that at least touches on the subject (though it focuses on an alternate trajectory for Germany). That might be interesting for you, too.
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Greek Prime minister Venizelos said to his European peers in 1920: "If you give Muslims Constantinople you will see them in Paris by 2050" Obviously exagerated but in the same vein, (and strangely prophetic).
Source?
I mean he definitely wasn't wrong, nobody can deny that
@@trashcantacos not what I said. I just want to use it.
@@divertedpreonConstantinople the gate way to Europe
@@divertedpreon I know, I wasn't talking about you I was just responding to the original comment
Greek Prime minister Venizelos said to his European peers in 1920: "If you give Muslims Constantinople you will see them in Paris by 2050"
Just think about it for a moment, Resistance time is now
What does this have to do with massive North African and black immigration to France? How could Greek possession of Constantinople prevent this? Do you ever think before you say something?
@@Anon-zh4bsI think he means more of the Arab/muslim migration
@@aguilarraliuga1777 North Africa is muslim and arab. My question was how would Greek possession of Constantinople prevent arab invasion of France? They are completely unrelated.
@@Anon-zh4bs obviously you don't understand how the ballance of power works. If Constantinople(aka most important city in geopolitical terms) was Christian then Europe's status as a whole would be much different. Not a single powerhouse in the continent would remain untouched. Now pick your bugs and go back to Algeria
If they gave it to the Greeks? We would've seen the Russian and the SLAVIC Brotherhood in Portugal on the Atlantic Coast line , making plans for invasion of Americas. Greece was a Russian state by proxy at the time. Modern Turkey is a PENICILLIN for the Russian world! Unfortunately Greece is part of that world.
The West should have better supported the Greeks, Armenians and Assyrians in this time period. The brutality of the Turks (+ their underlings) during this era is almost unparalleled in written history. The situation is obviously complicated like any situation. But it sticks out to me as a student of history.
PS- I welcome any Turks whataboutisms with open arms.
To be fair to Turkey, Greece isn't shy of committing their fair share of atrocities
Atça is a prime example of this as the Greeks practically burned the city to ashes
The truth is there is no winner in war sadly, everyone suffers loses and everyone commits horrible atrocities whether we like it or not
@@justagreekhistorian Yes, what I was referring to with the situation is complicated. It’s not like those innocent victims don’t matter. And while we’re at it, I sort of understand why the Entente didn’t exert more might/will right after ww1, they were exhausted manpower wise and their populace had ptsd from the horrors that just happened
but westerners supported and still support turkey
@@justagreekhistorian turks made us slaves for hubders of years they stole are land the still occupy Cyprus they killed millions of us and u say we did the same attrocities because we burned some villages during war as a strategy to slow down the enemy
@@justagreekhistorian I greatly appreciate that you acknowledge the nuances rather than simply go with the narrative "Greek Good and Turk Bad."
Love this content. Im fourth generation Australian but all my ancestors are greek and I am a proud Greek 🇬🇷
Thanks a lot for the support mate!
Ευχαριστούμε αδελφέ 💙
Anyone who is a true Westerner should have supported the Greeks back then and should support them now. great video.
Wow that’s a fascist ass statement
I thought westerners are known for having freedom of speech and mind 🤔
Man I wish.But the west especially Britian never wanted a strong Greece.
Average Greek statement
This sounds like something my dad would say tbh 💀
Next video: What if Greece took back it's rightful land (the world).
Greece takes back their rightful homeland, Punjab, where they came from.
@@xanshen9011hey dont insult Greek people like that 💀😂😂😂
@@xanshen9011Nah i believe Greece is as old as India if not Older they are feeding us a lot of lies. I know ancient Greeks believed that Gid Dionisus taught Indians all their arts and civilized them and gave them their culture
@@xanshen9011Turks should go back to western China
im not greek, but everytime i see a alt history video about a bigger greece, i just love it so much.
I am Turkish and I get happy every time when I see you guys are still butthurt lmao
As a Greek I can say that westerners really didnt want a greater or stronger Greece. They supported more the turks. Now we have all of us take the results of that....
@@Ελλάδα-ω3θ bullshit
It was the westerners who helped create a greek identity in a very mixed nation filled with turks, slavs, albanians, bulgars etc. This national greek identity that correlates ro the ancient times has pretty much nothing to do with the ancestry of 90% of 'greek' people. Instead, the new rules became that if you were orthodox you became greek, if you were a muslim you were a turk. Very simplistic view espwcially since the orthodox fate only reached greece due to the slavic imvasions. Greece got too ethnically mixed a long time ago, but the west needed a united greece to go against the ottomans and it worked wonders. The only group in greece who was against this unity building were the albanians of cameria who were then massacred. The truth is Istanbul is turkish now and has been for over 7 centuries. It is irrelevant what greeks (who mostly share nothing in common with their ancestors) would claim is just. @@Ελλάδα-ω3θ
@@Ελλάδα-ω3θthe west helped create the greek state in the first place. By enforcing a narrative of greeks of the 19th century being direct ancestors of the ancient hellens and making a 'greek' an orthodox christian is what helped make an ethnically diverse land of turks, bulgars, slavs and albanians into a Greek nation. Truth be told, 90% of modern greeks share practically no lineage to the ancient hellens, and the arvanites remain the closest direct ancestors. The west needed a strong greece to stand up to the ottomans and cause rebellions. They would however never let an artifical state lay claim to a city that wasnt in the rule of their people for 700 years while being the most important city on earth
As An Italian It Hurts And Disappoints Me To Know We Went Against You Greeks In Your Claim For Eastern Rome, What Was HQ Thinking When We Supported The Turks With THE SOVIETS?!
We Should Want Nothing But A Strong Greece In Our East Since As Many Tend To Forget Rome Was Split In Two And Having The East Already Covered Would Only Make Things Easier For Us, We Should Only Claim The West, The East Is Legitimately Greek.
Mare Nostrum Was Once Shared With The East, And It Can Be Shared Again, Dosen't Make Sense To Backstab Our Bros In The East Doing The Exact Same Thing As Us.
We Were Taking Mostly Lands With Italians In Them, Greece Was Mostly Taking Land With Greeks In It But The Final Goal Was One And The Same, Restore The Eagle, Why Would Anyone Support An Attack On Greece?
Italians were always against the Greeks in the whole history.
Italians are the only ones I cannot forgive, as a Greek. I could accept anyone to betray us except the Italians, and the Italians did that many many times.
I always come to the conclusion that except Cyprus (our blood brothers) and Armenia - Serbia (our brothers), only France treated Greece in a quite good manner.
Anyway, each country goes its own way and its own destiny. At least the Greeks have never harmed any Westerners, that's why we are proud and clean.
And something last but not least... noone in europe wanted a greater or strong Greece. So, do not blame only italy. It was everyone.
We are disappointed too, but that is life.
@@Ελλάδα-ω3θΔεν πειράζει αδελφέ, έχουμε τους αδελφούς μας τους Κύπριους και μετά τους Αρμένιους και τους Σέρβους. Αυτοί μας νιώθουν και μας καταλαβαίνουν καλύτερα.
@@Ίων-π8ρ Συμφωνώ. Τουλάχιστον αυτοί ποτέ δεν μας επιτέθηκαν και δεν μιλούν και άσχημα ή υποτιμητικά για εμάς.
Unfortunately there was no chance for the two sides of the Aegean to be united, because Greece would be powerful and the big guys did not want that.
True
Exactly, Germany, britan, Italy, would never accept that. Even soviets were with turks.
Creating a brand new big greek state would be more destructive than preserving the status quo where a turkish state controls anatolia.
Treu because if you have the two sides is more easy to control the entire Mesogious
No. The West always see greece as a puppet against turks
I'm starting my own TH-cam alt history channel I gotta say I have a lot more respect for your work voicing and making the script is the hardest part
So am i
Great Video as always, I would just like to add one minor detail. It is very likely that Cyprus would join Greece after decolonization, as the Greek majority of the Island demanded this even in our timeline and in this scenario, the Turks wouldn’t be in a position to really oppose this.
Oh yeah that's true, it didn't really cross my mind tbh
@@justagreekhistorianTurks would oppose it however can’t say they would last long against EOKA without a strong Turkey. And a weaker Turkey also makes the operation towards the island very unlikely.
@@kyratean That was also my thought. Of course the large Turkish population on the Island would still be against it, but in this timeline the Turkish state is way weaker and can’t really intervene in their behalf, so the plan probably goes through.
Classic
as an american im obsessed with big greece
thank you American friend, but you will never see a big Greece. BTW I am Greek.
I ve heard today that Americo Vespuki was baptised as Homer called as a child Homerico(Omerico) which was distorted later as Americo. So basicaly America is Homerica(Omerica)
You like sweet dreams dont'cha
I wish we could build The Grecopersian Empire!
We would be better together. 🇬🇷💙🇮🇷
@@ΙωάννηςΕλ Yes very much indeed my dear Greek brother. If we go together then we will get stronger. Even the Scandinavia countries wish to be one country so that they can stand stronger. If we become one country then no one can ever harm and destroy us!
@@delaramsalmassi4063At least Irani people never spoke bad for is and Iram never damaged Greece .... Our "friends"" always wanted amd smaller weaker and poorer Greece...
@@Ίων-π8ρYes my dear brother c
@@Ίων-π8ρI agree with you my dear brother.
A few corrections: after ww1 Italy had no ambition to recreate a Roman empire, Italians were revolting and the army had almost vanished so the only aim after ww1 was to stay alive and avoid communism (that's why Mussolini came to power even if he was anti-monarchist).
yes yes musolini...italians...albanians....and always smaller enemy Greece
Βρε μαλάκα δώσε μας την Πόλη!!! Το μαλακα το γράφω με την καλή έννοια ότι ανυπομονώ δηλαδή δεν έχω κάτι μαζί σου. Ωραία βίντεο φίλε
🤣 ωραίος
If Greece won the Greco-turkish war, all westerners and turks would be unhappy and the Greeks-Armenians-Kurds happy. The answer is just simple.
Έχεις κάνει καταπληκτική δουλειά μεγάλε, συγχαρητήρια. 🇬🇷💙🤍
sweet dreams
@nokta1. I didn't make dreams I answered to the question, what would have been if ....
It seems you don't understand even the basics.
@@ΙωάννηςΕλ i wished you sweet dreams theres nothing to be offended?
The video is epic but I think Bulgaria would have helped Italy invade Greece in the first invasion which would likely succeed. The only reason Bulgaria didnt help Italy in our timeline is because turkey threatened to get involved, which likely wouldnt have happened here.
Really? Turkey threatened to get involved?
Damn.The more you know
Dang I didn't know this
However doubt this would change much as German forces would still need to assist in occupying Yugoslavia and Turkey so
Bulgaria tried to invade Greece and failed, they got stuck at the Metaxas line defensive fortifications
Guys we all know that turks, Bulgarians, Albanians, Italians and so on, were and are against Greece. Do not show that in every comment. It is anti-human.
Πολύ καλό βίντεο αδερφέ… η μεγάλη ιδέα ακόμα ζει 🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷
As a Turk, Really?
@@hakanyilmazerMeh, greeks won't be able to do it anyways
@@OneTwo_1028Καλά, ό,τι πεις... 😑
Just your dreams
Great video my greek brother.
Cannont wait to see the turkish nationalists to comment😅.
As an italian with many greek ancestries, im' ashamed about the invasion of greece in 1941, i see greece as our brothers, since the roman era.
🇮🇹❤🇬🇷
There are more Pizza&Gyros comments than Turkish ones you little feta cheese
@@AD-yq8rl there are more nerds than idiots you little kid
@@AD-yq8rl bruh
Man has gone the entire video without mentioning Cyprus. I think that in this timeline the British might just let Cyprus become part of Greece, in a way to appease the appetite for reunification
Well I wanted to pin the focus on Constantinople because it made for a fitting end so I did overlook the elements of decolonization in Cyprus
Ωραίο βίντεο φίλε μου! Αλλά είσαι λίγο biased βέβαια για παράδειγμα δεν χρειάζεται να μεγαλώσουν τα σύνορα στην ζώνη της Σμύρνης. Επίσης με το θέμα με τους Ιταλούς, οι πιο πολλοί Ιταλοί ήταν στα αρχιδια τους για την Ανατολή. Κυρίως τους ένοιαζε η Αλβανία και η Δαλματια όχι η Ανατολία. Κομμάτια της Ανατολία τους την δώσανε για να μην είναι νευριασμενοι που δεν πείραν την Δαλματια
Καλά ότι έχω bias δεν το αρνούμαι, αν και προσπαθώ να το ρίξω όσο γίνεται
Η επέκταση της ζώνης της Σμύρνης θεωρώ πως θα γινόταν όμως διότι σε αυτό το σενάριο η Ελλάς είχε μια ολοκληρωτική νίκη
Όσο αναφορά τους Ιταλούς, τα ανέφερα αυτά στο βίντεο για να δείξω ότι ο φασισμός δεν αποφεύγεται και ότι ο Μουσολίνι πάλι θα έπαιρνε την εξουσία της χώρας
@@justagreekhistorian πρώτον δεν υπάρχει λόγος να επεκτηνουμε την ζωή της Σμύρνης διότι η Ζώνη της Σμύρνης είχε ήδη αρκετούς Τούρκους, και αφού επεκταθεί τώρα τι; θα έχουμε ακόμα πιο πολλούς; Βέβαια αν ήταν να επεκταθεί θα επεκτηνοταν στις ακτές της Μικράς Ασίας. Καλά για την Ιταλία βγάζει κάπως νόημα ότι απλά δεν ήθελες να αναφέρεις άλλες περιοχές σαν την Δαρδανία και κάνεις περίπλοκο το βίντεο.
Lovely video! I do wonder though if the Greeks would have trouble after the Greco-Turkish war with refugees from the Pontic coast. Also, during WWII...
Turkey: We have joined the Axis!
Greece: Hey what's the big idea?
Turkey: Oh, don't worry we have also joined the Allies.
Greece: We'd laugh, but our only territorial claims are against our staunch ally Britain, so we feel ya.
[Turkey, Greece fist-bump]
As a Turk I just wanna add some little details. Firstly until it became the center of the Kemalist movement Ankara was a city of no significance and in real life Greeks got so close to it that plans to move the capital to the Kayseri was prepared. I don't understand why losing a tiny city with a(at the time) 15k people would result in the collapse of the whole movement. Secondly during the Turkish-Armenian war of 1920 Kazım Karabekir had already decisively beaten the First Armenian Republic and was marching towards Yerevan before Soviets intervened and saved them then annexed Armenia to USSR. Treaty of Kars between Soviets and Turkey had already largely finalized the border between the two nations. Repealing the treaty would meant giving all the territory to the Comunist Soviets which I doubt either UK or France would support.
Other than that fun little video, nice work.
Hey, thank a lot for the support! I wanna say that I mentioned that the movement would fall when the Greeks reach Ankara just for convenience
In real life the odds were basically stacked against Greece so having to add every little detail on the war seems kinda pointless
As for Armenia, in the script I seem to remember to have given Armenia to the Turks for this exact reason, but upon looking at the script before I was finished, I realized I never made that reference
Regardless, if this treaty does get implemented, why would all of Armenia have to be directly given to the Soviets? Although, I agree it's probably more realistic for Turkey to keep their share of Armenia tbh, it just made the video more interesting
Soviets invaded Armenia as your baddies did together in the same time not '''saved Armenia''' Armenia even did a revolution and kept Armenia out of the soviet for almost 45 days the only country in the caucasus take your turkish propaganda out of here invaders
On your first question, Ankara was indeed an irrelevant city at the time but if the Greeks had capture it then Kemal would have been immediately dethrone by his comrades
@@dionysise5008 Nope. He would keep on fighting. The idea of abandoning Ankara to give the army the ability of radical maneuvers was very, very popular at the time
@@MulayimSert1 he is correct.. so far he had zero wins against Greeks and anxiety kicked in because Greeks had almost reached Ankara deep inside Turkey.. It was his last gamble.. win it all or lose it all.. also dont forget that other political parties were fighting to control Turkey(Sultan)...
imagine if greeks migrates to their rightful homeland , iraq. and meet with kurdish miltans they love. that would be awesome.
Götünüzün yanığı kıyamete kadar geçmeyecek.
Adamsın
As an Armenian I salute my Greek brothers.
Much love to Hayastan! We Greeks sure love our Armenian brothers ♥
@@harryavanessian6222 🇬🇷🇦🇲 brother countries forever
If the Greeks ever reclaimed Constantinople, does the Hagia Sophia become a church again, instead of a mosque?
Fs
In that case yeah lol
Don't see a reason for the Greeks to keep it a mosque
It would be a museum i guess.
The turks will never acept .
They will always fight for Anatólia and will win because Ataturk and is movemente is a excepcional movement.
In the best case is like Argélia.
Sure turks not beg for Eu viza..for 50 years now!🤣
Good video, but I think you neglected how important Soviet support of Turkish rebels was towards the end of the war. You also didn’t mention anything about population exchange, like what would happen to the large Turkish population in Smyrna. In our timeline the Greek refugees from Anatolia, mostly Pontus, repopulated northern Greece after Bulgarians were removed, but if greater armenia is established then those Greeks wouldn’t have been forced to leave and much of this version of Greece would either be empty or not have a Greek majority, specifically the regions in Thrace, Macedonia, and western Anatolia.
Nice video, also I have a suggestion-so in 13th century polish prince of Mazowsze province (Konrad Mazowiecki) was struggling with invasions from native pagan prussian population so he called teutonic knights (that were going back from crusade) to help him out in exchange for land later they would be main polish enemy leading to creation of Poland Lithuania, and Prussia as we know it
I think it could be intresting idea to make a video "What if Poland didnt call Teutonic knights for help"
Nice video! I always love to see thicker Greece.
You say turks burned the city of izmir but it's the opposite? The greeks done horrific things to resisting Turks both in coming and leaving.
Yeah, I'm not greek. How did you know?
The Greeks did commit atrocities to Turkish cities (Prime example being Atça) but Smyrna was burned by the Turks
I repeat: SMYRNA was burned by the Turks
There is a difference -> Smyrna is the name of the largely Greek populated city that existed in Asia minor
Izmir is the city that replaced it
Yes yes I know technically it's the same city but Izmir is just so unlike Smyrna that I can't really say for myself that they are the same city
Back on topic, The Greeks did do horrific things to Turks, not Greeks! And that's logical, as in a war there are no winners, as both sides commit horrific atrocities
Stop blue balling us and give Constantinople to Greece already!
Only in dreams
Life could be a dream, life could be a dreeeaaam...
Are you Greek?Εισαι ελληνας;
Ναι
As a turkish this is interesting timeline for sure, great video.
Glad you liked it!
If only they would hold Smyrna and took Constantinople with the areas around instead of marching towards Ankara ,maybe today we would have a different name as Greeks perhaps Byzantium, surely bigger population, bigger economy , power, strategic impact, etc …. Just Imagine we were so close … but west betrayed us like 1204 or worse…
I mean, trying to march to Ankara, into the depths of Turkey was a doomed plan from the start
If they had stayed in Smyrna, perhaps history would have turned out differently indeed
@@justagreekhistorian the plan was doomed when our beloved allies stoped their economic support after the change of the Greek leadership. The Greek army until then, never lost a battle.
@@justagreekhistorian Even in our worst times we pushed you into the sea, keep dreaming, we have been in these lands since 1071
@@ilkerorhan8017 You can't make this up
Turks like you paint the entire nation in the most horrible light
Saying that the killing of a bunch of innocent civilians is an ACHIEVEMENT? Really now, some human empathy
You never see Greeks brag about atrocities being committed towards Turks because we are not proud
You nationalists can't even take one moment to pay respect to any innocent life that was lost during the Greco-Turkish war
Who cares to which population group does Anatolia belong? The population exchange could have been peaceful and all would have been fine, but nope, it wasn't and you bragging about it shows how little empathy for fellow human lives you have
And for the record, the fact you've been in the Area since 1071 doesn't mean anything because Smyrna (modern İzmir) was Greek until 1922 where most Greeks were kicked out and the city was burnt to the ground
Please keep your nationalist ideology to yourself
@@ilkerorhan8017And you are proud of killing civilians... Pathetic
Could you do a video on if Germany formed earlier? Around the 1400.
As a greek i approve 👌
I'm Italian and this video is particularly biased and Italians have never financed the Turks in the Greco-Turkish war.
Smirnia had been promised to the Italians with the London Pact only because the Greeks had not yet entered the war on the side of the Entente.
The Italians didn't financed the Turks directly
Rather they support them diplomatically and retreated from their occupied territory, leaving all weapons for the Turks to take
Greece and Italy were competitors then, it was more of a passive thing rather than an active thing though
The ones who really supplied the Turks were the Soviets
Also yes, the London pact was undone with the treaty of Sèvres
@@justagreekhistorian in any case until the coming of Mussolini Italy never had plans or ideas of wanting to form a new Roman Empire, she wanted to unify all the Italian speaking territories you can also see from the fact that they withdrew the troops from the Panfilia region.
@@justagreekhistorian exactly this
@@Mattef22Italians were always against the Greeks, either directly or indirectly.
@@justagreekhistorian still biased. U said turks made attrocities but forgot to mention greek atrocities in izmir
While this is a realistic scenario, you could have gone in a slightly altered direcrion. If you wanted to get more creative with it, Greece could get in a war with Albania, over the issue of Northern Epirus, or you could have had Turkey invade the Greek portion of Anatolia (since the Germans would have a harder time landing there on their own). Also, the issue of Cyprus could be tackled. And perhaps a stronger Greece, with the inclusion of Northern Epirus, could have some sort of extra claims on fascist Italy or Bulgaria.
Also, the political landscape would be really interesting. I imagine that since Alexander lived on and cooperated with Venizelos, the kingdom would not be abolished. The National Schizm would effectively end with the complete ousting of Constantine and a reconciliation between the now pro-British crown and Venizelos. Venizelos in this timeline is hailed as a National hero by all sides, and is respected even by the royalists, for retaining the kingdom, the only party who would dislike him are the communists. With the kingdom continuing its existence into the interwar, under a system similar to the British, the country would be much more stable and there wouldn't be the many coups of our timeline. Pangalos wouldn't rule the country, meaning the 1925 Petrich incident wouldn't happen, or at least it probably wouldn't escalate in the same way. The country wouldn't be destroyed, so it could probably react better to the 1923 Italian occupation of Corfu. In this time, Greece would have a stronger alliance with Yugoslavia, and perhaps even an alliance with Romania and Poland, expanding the Little Entente into the Miedzymorze (Intermarium), which would be on the side of the Allies. Perhaps Bulgaria and Albania are occupied by this alliance, at least for some time. Maybe Greece liberates the Dodecanese islands from its Anatolian holdings. With the Soviets splitting the Intermarium with the Nazis, the war essentially sees the Soviets and Nazis on the same side against the Allies, meaning that Barbarossa is postponed to the point where it might not even happen. Or, conversely, with the addition of Turkey into the war, Germany makes better progress in the Caucasus, causing Stalingrad to fall. Maybe the Americans drop the nuke on Germany instead of Japan in this timeline.
I just think this timeline would see both Greece and Turkey be a lot more proactive instead of reactive than irl. Which could throw the war in a completely different direction Still, a great video nonetheless. You gained a subscriber
Thanks a lot for the support mate! Indeed the whole geopolitical situation is very interesting and there is a lot more to this scenario I didn't cover
However, Barbarossa would still happen as the Germans had in mind liebestraum (the expansion in the east) so it is unlikely they'd give that up but yeah it would be more creative that way
Φίλε μου το βίντεο σου είναι πολύ καλό και συγχαρητήρια γι' αυτό! Μου αρέσει τρελά που ξεχωρίζεις ότι είσαι Έλληνας, μέσα από την αγγλική σου προφορά. Εντάξει ωραίο 😄😀
sorry,i dont speak monkey-gorilla crossover language
Except of the survivor of Alexander the 1st , there is the scenario to making king another son of Constantine, as his son George 1st, who making king first time in September 1,923a.b.c.c.-
Very nice video like the others , i have been watching your channel since the 2nd video and i gotta say i love your vids
I would of liked to see two things though , firstly if greece was to win the war i belive that they would gain more land like hraklia of pontus and nikaia
Secondly i would of liked to see the diplomacy of greece after ww2 and also , since greece is bigger and the economy was going up i feel like , except federacion , there wouldnt be any significant other comunist party , thus greece would of been able to get more in the peacedeal like northen epirus or even an expanded northen epirus even towards elbasan , burgos , maybe plovid or cyrene too . something else could begreece would gain pontus , sure genocides had happened but the coastal areas were still majority greek finally i would like to see if greece could of been involved in the russian invasions of ukraine to get majority greek cities like mariupol , , thats all , love your vids man and im happy to see a greek youtuber
Μου αρέσει η ελληνική προφορά μέσα στα αγγλικά!!😄
29 August 1824 Naval Battle of Gerondas(Gerontas).
Turks and their Allies Egyptians were battling against defender Greeks.
But Tunisian and Algerian battle ships were coming to help the Turks and Egyptians against Defender Greeks.
The result of Naval Battle?
Greeks won the naval battle of Gerontas,the Egyptians accepted damage to their ships and the Naval Boss of Tunisian Ships,get arrested from Greeks.
1 Vs 4.
Interesting But Why Would Turkey Support Armenia And Greece?
maybe they didnt want the soviets to get closer to their borders
like a buffer state
The Ottoman Sultan would be closely tied with Greece (in case of instability) therefore Turkey would become a semi independent vassal of Greece to some extent leading the Turks to support Armenia, though diplomatically
Ok thanks! I was just wondering if Turkish Nationalism would take over. This is one of the few scenarios I’ve seen with Greece and Turkey as Allies even after Greece gained its lands
Could be strong enough anti communist sentiments that they work with greece
Both Italy and Greece wanted a new Roman Empire just the Roman Empire and different periods lol
Appreciate the work man 🫡
So, your telling me that Greece lost the Greco-Turkish war because of a monkey?
It certainly wasn't the biggest problem Greece was facing. A battered economy, a demoralised military, a discontented population and a fractured society were far bigger problems.
But the return of king Constantine, a guy who the entente didn't like, due to his pro-German tendancies was the excuse the entente needed to withdraw support from Greece
@@ΧΡΗΣΤΟΣΑΜΑΝΑΤΙΔΗΣ-β7μ Thanks!
For the Constantinople there was two scenarios, from Wilson, president of the U.S.A. and Venizelos prime minister of the Greece, for a religious state, as the Vatican, with his leader the patriarch of the Constantinople.-
NEVER THAT GREEKS WON NEVER EVER NEVER!!!!!
I didn't say they won, I said what would have happened had they won
We would formulate an alliance, a confederation most likely with Armenians. Combined with Armenian skills and the resources of our lands in Anatolia we would not only formulate great industries(having also direct access to Iraqi oil) but combined with the fact that by reclaiming Constantinople we would have Bosporus and the fact that we are number 1 in shipping in the world, Greece would have become a great naval and industrial superpower that could easily counter England and the USA and France. And of course this is something that was not in the interests of any western power, which explains why our western ''allies'' backstabbed us.
Good video but wouldnt turkey become either fascist or communist since greeks humiliated them also i think armenia would be invaded after his creation
Great video but I would like to say 2 things
Firstly, an an event of a Hellenic victory in the greco-turkish war the greeks probably wouldn't restore JUST Armenia in the redrawn treaty, instead it would be a union between Armenia and Pontus, so an armeno-pontic union
Secondly, we need a part two if possible
I feel like making a Pontic-Armenian state is pretty pointless since if I remember correctly the Pontic and Armenian genocides have already taken place which means these areas would also have significant Turkish populations
But yeah it's also a possibility
As for a part two, I don't really know what to do next, like okay say Greece takes Constantinople and the end
like there isn't much to continue the scenario so yeah
Thanks for the support!
@@justagreekhistorian a part two idea I think you should do is turning Greece into an involved major power in the MIddle East. As such, renewed conflicts between Armenians, Kurds, Assyrians and Turks, notably in the Van bassin region, would, by the time after 1945, cause the Soviets to try and stabilize the region. This would make Greece a massively important Western ally, in order to secure the Middle and Near East's alliegance to the West. As such, Greek-funded Armenian guerrilas would lead a massive revolution against the Soviets, backed by the Turks and Kurds and Assyrians and Ponts and Laz's and Georgians and Azerbaijanis and Caucasian Tartars and White Russians and so on and so forth, not to mention immediate backing by the Western powers. I see this revolution winning for 2 key reasons; Firstly, Soviet presence in the region being recent, consolidation of support would be extremely low among the highly conservative and religious Armenian majority of Western Armenia ( due to a return of Genocide survivors, numbering about 3 million in the 1940's, while Armenian victory in Western Armenia would cause a massive flow of Muslim imigrants to Turkey, similar to the flow of turks from Armenia to Azerbaijan in the 1991 victory, leading to the loss of muslim-christian 50-50 in north-western armenia, as south-western armenia was already a majority Armenian region due to it's highly depopulated nature after the caucausus front (estimates place the population of the Lake Van bassin and surroundings at 600.000 after the Turkish War of Independance), hence leading to a 75% Armenian state, backed by Kurdish minorities in Western Armenia who had benifeted of religious freedom and major minority rights as to isolate the Turks, who would be less than 10% at this point.) Hence, Almost 90% of the country in favour of the revolt, not to mention inevitable British, French, Turkish and Greek immediate "humanitarian aid" (undemrining Soviet influence by occupying major cities and ceeding administration to the rebels), this'd see Soviet collapse in Western Armenia and the entirity of the Caucausus, excluding Eastern Azerbaijan (the Black Sea coast, formerly owned by the Centrocaspian dictatorship, basically all of Azerbaijan excluding Karabakh and Ganja, the latter becoming the Democratic Azeri Republic and Karabakh joining Armenia for it's 93% Armenian population, as well as Georgian independance. In a sea of newborn republics, the Greeks would be given the task to lead them to the West in democratization and peacekeeping, essentially becoming the USA of NATO. They'd most probably form economic and political unions of Anatolia and the Caucausus, ending Greek-Turkish and Turkish-Kurdish-Armenian animosity. With the decolonization of Britain, this new alliance would seek to establish it's dominance over the Middle East; British Iraq's Assyrian and Kurdish regions would inevitably become an immediate warzone, northern Syria as well for it's prominent Assyrian and Kurdish majorities. In short, this would see Greece leading a coalition against the Arab World, backed strongly by Lebanon, seeking to free itself of it's Arab neighbour's influences, religiously and politically, Turkey, Armenia, Kurdistan, and Assyrian leagues for independance, against an Arab union. To prevent a unification of Baathist and Arab republics, the Greeks would be quick to prompt divisions within the Arab World, leading much of the middle eastern republics into civil war, heavily backed by American money to destroy Socialist Arab ambitions; Iraq would collapse quickly into a civil war beetween Shi'ites, Christians and Sunnis; Syria would fall into a similar-to-irl civil war of Pro-Western forces vs Pro-Eastern, also joined in by Pro-Collapse (minorities seeking to form their own states in Der-Ezzor or Rojova, respectivally Assyrians and Kurds). I think this is an extremely interesting idea to follow. Pls make a part 2...
Φιλε εισαι μεγαλος!!!
Make what if Turks never came to Anatolia and Greece keep Anatolia
least nationalist greek:
Can't tell if this is meant to be sarcastic or not
Europeans didn't want bigger Greece. They prefer a huge Muslim Turkey. How clever
What if Justinian the great restored the Roman empire!
Is holy allbanian pipell thanky never bi Greek land onli allbanian
🇹🇷♥️
What would your views on the difference in greek music in this alternate timeline. Without the refugees from anatolia would rembetiko then laiko be created which would mean a very different greek music for today?
That's an interesting view which didn't even cross my mind
I have no idea how to predict this but it is indeed very possible that music would end up extremely differently
Oh my god, it is the descendant of the Great Herodotus.
Hell yeah I'm MAGA...Make Anatolia Greek Again!
AS A BYZABOO THIS IS A W 🇬🇷 🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷
Only in alt history💪🇹🇷
In real history you lost to a bunch of greek rebels while being huge empire 😂
@@petrospetromixos6962 ottomans werent huge at the time, they were starting to lose power +gayreeks lost the turkish war of independence
@@noktafullstop點 huge empire?Gigantic it was at 1821 with whole huge islamic world on their back and whole europe supporting them just like 1923 but Greece didnt have traitors on the head this time and turgay was oblitarated 1 vs 100. As foe who is ga y just look at ottoman traditional homobelly dance
@@noktafullstop點 it was 1000 vs 1 you still lost XD
@@petrospetromixos6962 we won the Turkish war of Independence keep crying
Could u please make a video about what if Volga Germany got independence or like about Germans in Kazakhstan
6:13 yeah you burned the city down just before u jumped into the aegean sea, also ur army didnt retreat they fled.
They didn't flee from Smyrna though, they fled to Eastern Thrace? Also it's whatever to make fun of military defeats but we are taking about innocent lives being slaughters? I am sure you wouldn't want your house being burned, your family killed and you barely surviving and struggling in a city foreign to you?
@@justagreekhistorian İzmir* dont act like u didnt slaughtered innocent lives when u invaded anatolia so they would flee from the lands u occupied. Move on, these lands arent yours and will never be, use the correct names.
@@cenk.3467 I don't have a Turkish keyboard and I cannot type İ
Also I never denied the Greek slaughters? (Though you using "you" like I am personally responsible is weird) Let alone make fun of the Turks that were killed?
When it comes to city names, I am just calling them whatever they were called at the time
Sure, today it's Izmir or İzmir but then it was Smyrna and fact is it had been that way for well over 2 thousand years
I never claimed the lands, the cities are clearly Turkish today I mean the population is majority Turkish so I can't really do anything about that
@@justagreekhistorian I know u cant type İ just say Izmir, i dont say selanik instead of Thesallonoki or atina instead of Athens because i find it disrespectful, whoever owns the city also gets to change the name and it should be used by everybody, also i didnt make fun of innocent lives getting slaughtered and when i say "you" im refering to Greeks and since you are a Greek and we are arguing i dont see a problem about saying "you" refering to your race, im sorry if that was disrespectful to you. I said "dont act like u didnt slaughtered innocent lives" because u talked about what we did in the video but not about the Greek atrocities.
@@cenk.3467 Okay, thanks for clarifying, like that "you" really confused me. Also I do say Izmir when refering to modern day, in fact in the original script I wanted to add after that part "Smyrna was no more and the city of Izmir would be built on top of it" but I felt like I was stretching the thing waay too far, like the video wasn't about atrocities
Most of the time, I try to avoid it, mainly because youtube doesn't like it when these types of details are shared
Though, I do admit that not mentioning the Greek atrocities while mentioning the Turkish ones is a fault on my bit
And the reason why I said you are making fun of innocent lives is because you said "jumped into the aegean sea" which is used by many nationalistic Turks on the internet to make fun how the Greek populations were trying to swim for their lives while the Turks entered into Smyrna
I don't really agree with the fact that the Greeks burned the city though? I mean the Greek army fled to formerly Rodesto (I don't know how it is in Turkish sorry)
Lastly, when it comes to city names, I don't really bother that much, it's the same city no matter how you call it
I mean, sometimes the different names can have different meanings, for example Smyrna can be used pre-1922 but not after
Constantinople is used for the capital of the Byzantine Empire, however modern Istanbul has expanded beyond the boundries of that city.
Me personally I am not offended if someone called Athens Atina or Salonika Selanik, as long as there is clearness in which city we are talking about
Anyways, I personally have nothing against Turks or Turkey, I just made this video because 1) I reached 1000 subscribers, so I wanted to do a video which I was confident would be realistic and 2) I have been taking scenario requests since the very start of my channel, and one of the first request I got was What if Greece won the Greco-Turkish war
So yeah, that's all, take care!
Well the turks woon cuz the soviet union gave some good weapons to turkey BYW the photo in 0:59 you cam find the photo on a book in greece school 3rd grade γυμνασίου or for American style 9th grade
Soviet intervention is just a small part of why Turks won their independance so ı suggest you first learn some history.
What do you think this Greece would be like in today's world?
a wise man once said; "If my grandmother had wheels, she would be a bike"
there was no way greeks won the battle of attrition. there wasnt even proper roads to chase Turkish nationalist movement. thats why they couldnt set up supply lines. also Turks already defeated armenians and secured eastern border. in south french didnt want another campaign and left. greece was already left alone since they wanted constantinople for themselves, not for british
This is why it's called alternate history
It's a what if scenario... A thought experiment
Also idk what that quote has to do with that
what about PONTUS?
Nice greek video
Very good video! 💯🇬🇷🇨🇾❤️
What's the point of this video?? Probably we would keep our cities and populations safe. But it's over now. It's better to get the lesson ( be proactive and know who your real friends and enemies are) and focus on the present.
The point of this video is entertainment lmao
My channel is mostly althist but I also plan to branch out at some point
as a turk i have to say istanbul= headache. İn 2024 world, even now turkish people trying to run europe.13 million immigrant in turkey incredible situation. İn this scenerio tukey has no power to stop migration. Greeks would be a minority population in their own country, like ottoman empire with turkish people. Probably real end is the best and for greece.
Quoting another comment I responded to; "This is not modern day, where Istanbul has a higher population than all of Greece
Back in 1920, before the population exchanges, Greeks made up about 40% of the city and that applies to many other places, notably Smyrna which was majority Greek
On top of that, if the Greeks did indeed win, most Turks will flee and possibly alternate population exchanges would take place, making the new borders permanent
But yes, if Greece did takes these lands in the modern day, it would indeed be majority Turkish"
Also I am not anywhere near close to being certain about what would happen in the modern day in this scenario, so I think it's better to leave it at the 1960s, where I can at least reasonably predict what can happen
Life could be dream...
Really good video, great to see you growing
Thanks a lot man! I really appreciate it
@@justagreekhistorian One more video and you're gonna hit 2,000 subscribers. Congrats man!
Love your channel btw
Thanks a lot mate!
Yu know alexander hi only grik
Welp, I'd be a greek then
I thought Italy didn't really care about their territorys in Turkey
Most Italians didn't, but their goverment wanted them. But not that much as they wanted Albania for example.
@@stephmod7434 ok thanks for letting me know
@@martimsousa2601 np
A nation which is Not able to survive by its own and can Not fight alone doesn‘t deserve a country
And that's the reason why your society is sheet.
Turkish society is "eat or be eaten" and it's full of violence.
That's why every Turk is begging to move to Germany and even to small countries like Belgium who can't "fight alone" but they created a CIVILIZED society.
@@hamlet557europeans are angels? 🤣
@@eren3390
Why do you insist when even YOU know the answer?
@@MehmetGuler-oh9bm nations can also develop science and humanity and not only fighting. Fights is not everything g. It is the most primitive thing if you think like that. What a medieval culture.
Epic Ελλαδα moment
Tbh i don't think Greece would get more of Inland Anatolia but more of the coast because thats where the Greek population lived. And it is also possible Britain just gives Constantinople to Turkey because if the Turks lose theyre gonna be ruled by the Ottomans and basically be a british puppet
Keep in mind that in this alternate timeline, the Ottoman Empire is a weak, backwards state, unable to compete with Greece or any other Great Power
The British giving Constantinople to Turkey is like begging for the City to get conquered by the Greeks in a follow up war
Here, the Sultan is not just a British puppet but also a Greek and a French one
The Greeks would undoubtably get a lot of influence over the Sultan, turning Turkey into a semi-independent protectorate
@@justagreekhistorian Alright that makes sense
They definitely would due to areas like Pontus being full of Greeks at the time
16:43 after watching too much game theory, i thought you where going to say “but hey, thats just a theory, a game theory”
FINALLY, someone got the reference, I had been waiting for this moment
Anyone who is a true Westerner should support peace, democracy, and human rights, and not such fantasies.
I don't disagree lol
I made this video, not to say "BRING BACK MEGALI GREECE!" but rather to celebrate reaching 1000 subscribers
Since I am Greek, it only made sense to make a Greek centered scenario
No westerner supports war. It's only a "what if" scenario.
We leave wars to Turks who never stopped having wars with all their neighours and they have NOTHING to brag about, other than wars.
Supporting human rights means supporting Greece
I fail to understand why human rights is connected (mainly) to Greece. Are ordinary people in other countries not worthy of human rights?
Greece is exemplary in one regard. The "Human rights index" (by "Global Change Data Lab") for Greece was 0.8 points in 2023, out of 1.
Maybe you mean that Greece fails in another regard. It has good laws but many can bypass them. The "Human rights and rule of law index" (by "Global Economy") for Greece was 3.6 points in 2022, out of 10.
What if Henry tandey killed Hitler in ww1 instead of sparing him?
Interesting idea, I may cover that at some point but then again I have second thoughts as the video is 100% getting demonitized
Absolute nonsense.
Greek dream
The Good Timeline
Shouldnt be a video cuz it never happened 🇹🇷🇹🇷🐺🐺🐺🗣️🗣️🗣️. Next vid should be what if ottoman empire got reformed.🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷🫃🏿🗣️🗣️🗣️🌞
Okay lol I will make a video on what if the Ottomans reformed in the future
@@justagreekhistorian 🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷
Asia Minor is greek soil
What if moon was earth 😂 no chance for greece it was a dumb idea since the start
I don't disagree with the fact that this was a horrible idea
Greece could have stayed in Smyrna, going further - in the majority Turkish areas - was pretty pointless and only resulted in defeat
As an Italian, I would suggest a what if scenario which is very unknown in medieval history, and was never explored by anyone but it could be really significative if well-realized: What if Berengar of Friuli was able to mantain his power and his successors: during his reign, which spanned from 888 to 924, he was the first king of Italy to recive the title of Holy Roman Emperor, which made the Italian kingdom the whole HRE itself and not controlled by any other power, as happened in our timeline when Otto I conquered in 962 Italy and become emperor. This scenario would basically mean that Italy would have become a centralized kingdom as happened for France and England, and maybe it could also conquer in the long term even the small lombard principalities of Salerno and Benevento, as well the still Roman controlled lands of Apulia and Calabria, recreating the full unity of the Peninsula which was lost since the death of Justinian. Also this strenghing of central autority over the kingdom would basically mean that it’s difficult for Italian republics as Genoa, Pisa would form (Venice was still a tecnical vassal of Constantinople, and would probably be preserved thanks to it’s extremly difficulty to siege the mainland, because of it’s swampy territory.
That's interesting, I haven't really heard of this before but I will give it a shot
There is a video by Neatling (coincidentally published yesterday) that at least touches on the subject (though it focuses on an alternate trajectory for Germany). That might be interesting for you, too.
Turks won the war against greece, britain, france, italy and armenia
Britain didn't really fight in the war and Italy supported the Turks
Turkey did indeed still beat Greece, Armenia and France though
That first map isn’t the modern day, because you didn’t include Kosovo 🇽🇰
Greece doesn’t recognise Kosovo.
@@rhu7069 well they should
Still haven't figured out what to do with disputed territories so for now, anything disputed is not shown
This comment is algorithm fodder. Have a great day.
Thanks a lot mate haha