Most DIYers Do Not Know This | Loctite Red Threadlocker Curing
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ม.ค. 2023
- Learn something about threadlockers like Loctite Red 271 that not many people know about.
@HacksbyDad
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This video is for entertainment purposes. Follow the manufacturer's specifications for torquing or loading bolts for your specific application. - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
For more... please checkout my Nuts & Bolts playlist... th-cam.com/play/PL_WcGw5s6Cq6YK_s-NNne1838j25ijmii.html 😎
I also have a 2018 Corolla LE, but with Openpilot. What was your best MPG? Mine was 40.5 avg.
@@RinksRides 8
So yeah foot pounds has become the regular usage NY many. I just always applaud when someone bucks common usage and uses the "correct" term. But we all know what it means.
So how about the torquing down some nuts with and without Red, and with primer? I mean you already have the bolts...
*panic sweat* (he knows too much) Take the shot take the shot!?!!!
not correct use = car engines is main use - your silly !
Former Loctite sales rep here. Zinc is a fairly active metal, which is why it's used for sacrificial anodes on boats. You won't gain much using primer/activator. That product is meant for passive metals, such as stainless steel. What the primer does is add another cleaning, and introduces copper ions, which will cause the Loctite to set up. Try your experiment using 316 stainless bolts and nuts, passivated if you can find them.
My experience with stainless fasteners is they are self galling and need no thread lock. Good luck getting them apart under anything but the best of circumstances. God how I hate working with stainless bolts.
@@lifesucks247 LOL too true
My job orders both and they're both in red bottles 😮
@Johnny Table Use a Liberal amount of the right kind of antiseize, and you'll be fine. This excludes the possibility of using threadlocker of course, but nylock is better anyway, except when you can't get to it with a powertool of course.
I've built helidecs from extruded aluminium girders that snapped together like laminated flooring. These were then secured with stainless bolts and clamps. We did this as a team, and I was new at the job. I held everyone back because I used too little antiseize on one bolt, and I had to cut it, because it had welded itself together. It's remarkable how little patience a foreman can have with young boys, fun times 🫤
Wow, I thought stainless would last without bonding. Learn something new everyday.
Now lets talk about how red loctite comes in a blue tube and blue loctite comes in a red tube.
It's to have a little fun 😁
That’s what I’m used to as well, but the other day I did buy some red Loctite in a red tube, I had to double check that I had the correct stuff when I was getting checked out.
Do you want red or blue loctite?
Um...yes?
That’s so you can distinguish them wearing 3D glasses.
My man spittin’ facts!
Try the test with the fasteners torqued when assembled, probably with holes through a steel bar. This would approximate real world use as the nuts loose on the bolt aren't as "anaerobic" as when stressed under torque. I would definitely be interested in seeing those results. Thank you for your presentation.
100% - nuts need to be torqued to a reasonable spec; definitely not just loosely hanging out mid shaft - run it again! :)
Same as I was wondering, as far as I knew, thread lock only properly works when you torque the bolt/nuts. I even used this to my advantage when assembling some structures, just put the thread lock in the bolt, and hand tighten it so I don't lose it around. No need to rush, it will only really get properly locked when tight.
It really was annoying when I did have to remove some bolts because of whatever stupid mess I did, but that's the thread lock working as intended, can't complain there.
I too would like to see this.
Exactly, the touching threads are sealing the loctite between them from oxygen and would cure properly.
I came to say just that!
You’re like the chill version of project farm.
There no meth in his madness... 😂
Project Farm has turned strange. I stopped following the creator about a year ago. It went from practical knowledge to dispelling rumors and myths.
PF talks like an hamster with ADHD
Project Farm is funnier though
I've never wanted a graph so badly in my life. Good stuff, sir.
Seriously. Thankfully the table came eventually!
Imagine if he'd done _N_ samples at each elapsed time! 😵
I blame Project Farm for this terrible format of meaningless word dump before showing data in a proper way.
@@JGnLAU8OAWF6 he goes through it pretty fast though, just explaining his procedure. But yeah, i usually slide over to the end :)
You had me at when you said you read the instructions…bravo!!
👍😎
Who does that?
Exceptional no-nonsense presentation of valuable/everyday information. Thank you for your contribution!
Thanks! Appreciate it!
i like too see proof basically to back claims up! ill get primer next time i need red. cool torque attachment, i want one for very light applications that are also paticular. cool demo and thanks!
@@HacksbyDad Seconded....thanks for the no-nonsense info! 👍
Sadly the author didn't even use the loctite suggested primer. This is just some random heptane on the glue.
Good video, very similar to @Project Farm videos testing various products and fasteners
Been a mechanic for 40 years & red lock tite is used for bolts & nuts that are imperative that don’t come loose like driveline bolts or any bolts subjected to torsional vibrations- bolts that go round and round. Blue lock tite is used for smaller bolts and bolts that clamp components to something like p/s box to frame. A shot of brake clean before installation if the bolts are greasy. Once the bolts are installed they usually don’t come back out for years so time isn’t an issue.
I use the same logic on rifles: muzzle treatments (especially JP Recoil Eliminators) get Loctite Red, everything else gets Blue.
Context: muzzle treatments tend to be directionally biased, so if you set them up in the wrong orientation they can be worse than not installing them at all.
been a farmer for 30 years and you are spot on
So you might imagine my surprise when I go to remove the front brake calipers from my motorcycle and they are stupidly stubborn. Ended up using my impact wrench to get them off. What do I find? Red Loctite on the threads.
Good thing the last shop I got this done at is no longer in business.
So instead of a 15 minute pad replacement job, It will be a couple more days for new bolts to come in.
Learned more in this comment than the entire video
@@MrShadowpanther3 The slider bolts usually have blue lock tite but the caliper brackets on cars,trucks and heavy duty trucks have red lock tite & they are a pain to remove. Don’t want a caliper bracket to come loose.
When I started my HVAC career, I had a journeyman once tell me “ if you want to put something together with nuts and bolts without it coming apart again just put some paint on the threads first”. Dam it actually Works.
Or use a bolt no longer then actually need. After tightened hammer the end to ruin the thread lol
@@davidhughes8636 if I have extra threads, sometimes I’ll take a file and goober them up. But yes, doing your idea would work.
@@davidhughes8636 Nah, too much work. Some manufacturers of imported junk seem to use an even easier way: just cross-thread every fastener!
Teflon tape works quite nice too
@@sparcnut I use double helicoid ambi-fastener threads for all mission critical components. You know, the ones you have to tighten to get loose and loosen to tighten.
Love this! More technical experiments and information and less garbage on TH-cam is a great thing.
I like it when people get their point across in less than six minutes.
👍😎
I believe that what many people don't realize is that both sealants are anerobic sealants meaning that they cure fully in the absence of oxygen. When the bolt/nut is tightened all the air is squeezed out causing the sealant to cure.
True. Liquid LocTite will stay liquid if left sitting out in the open. One thing I see most people and 'testers' do incorrectly is use way too much on the fasteners. A drop or two is all that's needed...not soaking the fastener until it drips. That doesn't help, and just makes a mess. Also, the reason there are different part numbers is the size of the fastener. They have specific uses.
Yep
I am not sure you quite got that right. something thats anerobic will cure with or without oxygen, so squeezing all the air out does not make it cure. It will still cure without oxygen basically.
i didnt really know that. i dont use it but i may need to sometime another.
So these tests of a nut just threaded onto a bolt with no torque pressure wouldn't actually activate the licktite properly?
I just came from a reddit post that was basically a guy ranting about how everyone uses loctite wrong and that it's basically useless on inactive substrates unless you buy the kind of loctite specified for it or use the primer. It got me worried because I've never used the primer and have assembled a lot of stuff with loctite that is plated or anodized. This video proves that it's nearly as good without the primer. Unless it's an absolutely critical part, I'm going to continue to forgo the primer.
The point is not that it works with or without primer. The point is: It depends on the material composition of the fasteners you are using.
I have had things where red Loctite was used and shouldn't have been. It seems like the finer the threads are, the stronger it is. I've had a couple of gun barrels that had red applied to them and they had to be heated up to even think about getting the nut off without damaging it. A friend had a homebrewed radio with the front panel held on with about 20 hex screws, and the builder used red Loctite on every one of them, apparently not thinking the panel would ever have to be removed for future repairs. Even when we heated the screws with a soldering iron, some of them got the hex stripped out and others bent the allen wrenches we were using. When we put it back together, we used new screws and Vibratite.
Far out, I never read the instructions. Been using the stuff wrong for decades. Thanks man. Take care.
I really appreciate the work you put into this! I'm both curious and cynical about manufacturers claims. This is the kind of independent testing that helps everyone AND keeps manufacturers on their toes!
😎👍
Manfactures often include an unnecessary step to either sell another product (ex. primer) or give their lawyers a loop hole if their product fails (clean dust free surface) when they know that most of their customers cant abide by it. I use Loctite on light fixtures that were installed on a bridge when clinton was in office, at 3 am, in the rain, cold salty air while on a boom lift with a head lamp. In these conditions i can barely keep my sandwhich clean let alone a bolt. Use lots of loctite and torque to specification. If you need to loosen use either a brake bar or a torch to burn it off.
Or they require the extra step of a primer to abide by the laws of physics
Sounds like a conspiracy. (Ha ha!) I think it's more likely that Loctite wants to ensure that surfaces are clean and free of oil residue and other coatings. As for loophole, if you don't follow the instructions, it's not a loophole.
I am just going to stop you here and say that you never installed those light fixtures.
@@JediOfTheRepublic I didnt install them. i replaced them.Or replaced parts of them. In the cold at 3am.
@@beansmalone1305Yeah-yeah, we know, with your dirty sandwich & when Clinton was in office(so basically sometime during the 8 yrs he was President from '93 to '01)
Very interesting video. I would’ve liked to see the nuts holding two metal plates together. I feel that the compression would’ve applied greater force to the threads at contact, over a nut under zero load.
Thanks for taking the time. Subscribed.
This is as scientific as could be expected from a Dad.
Thanks for the sub! Appreciate it!
Fingernail polish works good to a locked bolts really nice
It would've been even better to have a comparison with active bolts. Also, the bolts needed to have some compression on the thread (which would be more real-world). Even so, a great video and certainly food for thought!
First thing I noticed too, there's no compression.
The video is good never mind the others. They can do their own tests. Thanks for taking the time to produce this.
This is how my head works. You did an exceptional job putting this together in a clear and precise way with attention to detail all along the way. Valuable information for anyone wanting to use fasteners in the correct way. Thank you! Subbed with a thumbs up.
Thank you so much for not using loud feet!!!!!
I've used primer mainly when I need to put the object into service sooner than a 24 hour cure time. A test every hour or two to determine cure time whether primed or not would be interesting.
This is the first test like this that I've ever seen. Thanks for all your work and for sharing your results. This is the best way to learn something.
Thanks! More to come! 😎
Thank you for sharing that with us. I've never noticed a difference when using it on new or old' clean or not clean threaded connectors! Nice to know!
Interesting stuff. We use loctite on non-active surfaces often and anodized aluminum seems to be where the activator is most important. I didn’t realize that zinc was “inactive”. Thanks for the great content. I ignored your video for a while because the title which seemed like clickbait yet wasn’t.
Former Loctite rep here: Older primers (Primer N or Primer T) contained either a copper-ion or an amine dissolved in the carrier solvent. Those compunds drove the resin cure to a much higher level of completion that the stuff used here. I have not checked, but I suspect the older primers have been outlawed due to solvent content and/or toxicity concerns. At the end of the day, some heat (
Thanks for the info! 😎
You can still buy the Loctite copper salt primer from McMaster Carr. Loctite SF 7649. It's expensive though. It makes a huge difference with stainless steel fasteners.
Some stainless steel fasteners won't cure Loctite properly. I made the mistake of using primer and green Loctite on a nut and bolt that hadn't been assembled. It cured so fast that it seized up before I could tighten it all the way.
Used Primer N and T for years. (Thankfully, on an infrequent basis.) Just a bizarre exotic aromatic-chemical smell to them. They really sped the cure up better than the current stuff, but it just somehow smelled like it was giving you brain cancer.
Very invormative and not time consuming. Thanks
Thanks for your time and effort to share this interesting information with us all.
I've never bothered with activator/primer and just normally used red or blue depending on how serious I am about wanting something to not come apart. Bond strength is also going to be much more significant depending on surface area of the threads, so keep that in mind with larger, coarse thread nuts and bolts. I've never had red fail to keep something secured.
The only problem to using the activator/primer is locating the stuff when you need it. Few places that sell "Locktite" thread locker also have the activator/primer on the shelf.
The point is not that it works with or without primer. The point is: It depends on the material composition of the fasteners you are using.
We use a red sealant on our pipes at work. We generally only use the primer when we are dealing with Stainless as it doesn't stick very well to the stainless and just runs off. The primer helps it stick to the metal better. In brass or copper it doesn't seem to matter as much. We don't use a lot of zinc.
I'm guessing that's gas-oila red. Great product!
Vibra-tite for the win !
Just something I heard from a guy that tests the hell out of everything. 👊😎
Thanks! I have Vibra-Tite and some other threadlockers that I'll test and compare in the future. 😎
I had no idea. Thanks for making such a compete test and video.
Great test.
Thank you 🙏
Seems like there wasn't enough of a difference to worry about. I think I will continue to use it as I always have! But it's a little odd to me that the non-activated breakaway torque raised with 72 hours, but then dropped again. I think there may be some variability in the quality of the bolts and nuts. A better test would be to test 5 of each without timing, then average them, removing the highest and lowest!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and suggestions. Much appreciated! 😎
I agree James, a larger sample size of each timepoint is needed. n=5 is a good starting point.
Also I've noticed there are samples with higher values on non-activated. Shouldn't that be consistenly the other way around?
He should have tried rust hehe
@MiMiM MiM he used a random activator and read the TDS from 2018 which removed half of the instructions for the glue.
Amazing. thank you. This is why I love youtube.
Thank you for this demonstration, nice video!
Excellent, comprehensive testing ! The results seem to be all over the map. One wonders why #271 might be a choice for parts assembly.
Great video. I'd never heard of the need for activator, and I don't clean the bolts either! It would be interesting to run a test with uncleaned bolts vs uncleaned activated
It fails if you do not clean the parts. I have seen it several times. They must be clean, both bolt and thread area. Brake clean works pretty well and is so common now. Spray on and blow off crap with air.
Thank you! I worked on motorcycles and atvs for 40 years and didn’t know this.
The use of loctite is to prevent a bolt or nut from backing out further from their initial tightening torques if that starts to come loose for some reason. If it's for later work, the red is for stuff that one Hope's will never be loosened again or in a very loooong time. Blue is to hold in blessed stressed or torqued items while still being able to disassemble without going through any special efforts. Torque release tests mean little to me because at no time are the hardware being turned by an outside force. So clean with brake clean and use the loctite of your choice and move on. If one is really concerned, then just safety wire the hardware.
Vibration is an Outside force, I have watched properly torqued nuts spin off aerospace assemblies while being tested on a vibration table, was fun to watch them being flung all over the test cell.....
@@regdor8187 and they were loctited or wired ?
@@georgecurtis6463 George, not wired as that adds extra weight to a very sensitive payload budget, my observation did not show any locking substance, but there may have been....These payloads were university scientific projects in the early days of rocketry where the learning curve was very steep....Things have greatly improved today....
@@regdor8187 ok, understood.
could you rewrite that in English?
I found this test interesting, informative, and thought-provoking. I wonder if you would have gotten different results if you loosened torqued samples. I'm thinking (and I am hardly an expert on the subject) that you tested the shear strength of the cured threadlocker and not the ability of the threadlocker to effect sliding between two clamped surfaces. Would the results be similar if the same test was performed using Loctite 243 or 222? That's the real plus of videos like this - makes the curious think about things that they long took for granted. Thanks for your effort and sharing of the results!
Well loctite also cures in anaerobic environment. When the nut is torqued tight, it seals out the air, and allows the loctite to properly cure. This is usually when breaker bar is necessary. He basically just had some half cured, maybe partly cured goop helping raise the number a bit but I suspect torqued nuts would produce significantly higher numbers.
You’re likely right on the money with your thought process
Great video. I've been using loctite for decades and never used an activator. Just ensure fasteners are clean. Never a problem.
You only really need an activator in 2 cases:
1) If both the screw and the nut are made of alluminium or other unreactive metal or plastics. I tried plastic screws into alluminium and the stuff just stays liquid for days and does not cure at all.
2) If you need it to cure as fast as possible especially for zinc of stainless or if one of the surfaces is active but the other is inert. If you need it to operate right away though then split lock nuts are your friends as the bonding compounds need at least a few hours to cure even half decently even in best case scenarios.
In any other case the activators are not very useful.
Excellent vid Dad. Always wondered about this. Good information.
I believe the intended use case is to have the hardware tightened to specified torque values and the tensioned/anaerobic environment activate the curing process.
I agree with your recommendation. I'm not a chem or materials guy, but from what I've heard about bonding details... 🤯
Some adhesives work on a molecular level such that if you have more than _a few molecules'_ thickness of adhesive between the parts, you're not going to get the desired bond.
I think epoxies would _not_ be in this group, as they stick to both parts _and_ provide a rigid gap filling material (also like the hot melt used for cardboard boxes)
Correct
If the nut is loose, won't there be a bigger gap between the sides of the threads, compared to if it's torqued down? It might not be a representative test. It's like testing glue with a 1 mm gap
Good point but I think this test gives a clue as to the difference between primed and not. If the nuts were torqued, break away would have been difficult to measure.
Totally thought this would be a bigger difference. Thanks man!!
It does make a difference on cold nuts and bolts. I'm finishing up that experiment now. 😎
Locktite has always worked well for me. Never seen anything come lose.
Cross threading works best
I would have liked to see the torque tests done at 1, 2, 4, 8, and 16 hours, in those cases I think that the "activated" would show a greater advantage.
Thankfully, we don't need to do that. The author of this video didn't actually read the TDS for loctite 262 and etc where it says to use loctite 7471 or loctite 7649 not the first random primer can you find on the shelf
Yeah no 7471 is 70 percent acetone which is what primes loctite.
His wierd looking "surface prep" is heptane, propane, isobutane and ethanol according to the SDS. It would literally do nothing.
Very straightforward.
Thank you.
Subscribed.
Outstanding demonstration. Initial torqueing of the bolts/nut may tighten the gap between the running surfaces and give a more optimum result. Great data presentation. Very clear video.
Thanks! Much appreciated!
😎
Super cool and thorough testing. Thanks
I was told to heat it with torch, lighter or heat gun, cures fast though some comes out and can be wiped off right away or scraped off if that matters to the look of something. It has held nicely, even on metal jewelry with snug fitting parts. I learned something from you I never heard before on the types of metals, a valuable lesson there, as well as letting it cute over time, never tried that.
Very well done video, and as a bonus you got many very experienced folks to comment. Thank you!
Thanks! I have no clue as to why this video went somewhat viral with over a million views. 😎
Great video. We use activator most of the time when fitting out machining fixtures. For less stressed applications we don't bother
Thank you sir, well put together without drama and wasting my time, nice channel.
Thanks! 🤙😎
Super thorough and well made video! Thank you for sharing!
👍😎
Very scientific approach. Excellent video!
Thanks!
This was so useful and interesting. Thank you for doing it!
You’re welcome! I appreciate the feedback!
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Wonderful video. Thanks for sharing!
Well done. I never used activator an will continue to save my money. Good Job.
Thank You for information and video
Yes I knew this but since I’m retired and working on only small engines I use blue 242
Good video and test. The reason for using locktite is so bolt dont back out due to vibration and such. But this shows how well just the thread locker alone works. But if bolts are under correct torque and bolted down tightly, they have little chance of coming loose from vibration
this was information that i didn't know i needed. thanks for the neat information!
Here's more information that you may not know you needed... th-cam.com/video/7yPQIsfv9x8/w-d-xo.html
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Well done!
Well darn! Never knew this! THanks dude!
Sick Vid Dad!!! Cheers!!
Thanks for the straight forward video. No extra words for words sake
👍😎
Outstanding video!
Excellent experiment. Thanks!
Thanks for an excellent video. Good Scoop.
Great info!! Thanks for sharing!!👍👍👍
Good job. I can use this information in DIY activities.
Nice work! Easy to understand
Thanks!
I smacked that subscribe button. First time viewer of your content and was impressed with the video and audio quality. I appreciate the annotations and graphics to clarify what you are explaining. I look forward to more videos.
Thanks! I appreciate the kind words. I’m still learning this TH-cam thing in my old age. LOL
Great information, thank you
Excellent. Comprehensive.
Damn good video. Thoroughly executed!
Really good data! I always activate on zinc and stainless. The bonds always seemed more resilient.
correct
Great test !! Thanks for doing it .
You’re welcome! 👍😎
This was very well done! Thank you!
👍😎
Thanks for doing this!
Good info brother. Thanks 🙏
Good work. It defo seems to make a difference, but not enough for me to worry. Have to say, I never knew this either but I've used 271 on everything for years and it has never let me down.
Thanks! 👍😎
Great info, thank you!
You’re welcome and thank you for the feedback!
Thanks for saving me money I already wouldn't have wasted!!!
LOL! Glad I could help! 😎
You missed the point.
@@DinoNucci No. I actually didn't.
@@mistersmith3986 wrong
Very interesting video. I learned something here. 👍🏻
Glad you enjoyed it
Very well put together video.
Thanks! Much appreciated!
Thanks. Very helpful info.
An interesting video. Thank you!
Very interesting video, thank you.
Great video!
Dear fellow Gear-Heads,
I owned a national fastener distribution company for 26 years, AND I was a direct distributor of Loctite's Automotive Division products. As many have suggested, the fasteners should be tested under proper load. The #1 reason for fastener failure is improper torquing (under & over). The bolts and nuts should be paired properly according to their "grade", and even plating (in this case "Zinc", which is not only soft, but also acts as a lubricant) affects the torque range.
By design, the assembly is meant to stretch, which slightly deforms the threads, especially on the nut. (This is why you should not reuse them, especially the nut. By the 3rd-5th properly torqued reuse, the threads can be completely compromised without you even knowing it.)
For this test, there is an additional reason for torquing the assembly.
As others have said, anaerobic thread-locking adhesives cure when oxygen is not present. They are specifically formulated for the tight tolerances between metals, especially under "load", where the least oxygen would be present. This is an important feature.
Occasionally, we would have auto mechanics complain to our company that the thread-locker tubes they received from us were only half full. This is by design. The adhesive requires a certain amount oxygen in the tube, or it would harden and destroy the shelf life, if any. (So, store it "flat" to expose the most adhesive to the most oxygen in the tube.) Also, unlike some of the other methods of catalyzing, this adhesive doesn't cure in a uniform manner. The strength between those torqued threads will be much higher than any adhesive exposed to air on the assembly. (If practical, you could help insure the curing by applying heat [120 F+ if memory serves me] to the area which will dissipate the oxygen, though it shouldn't be necessary.
Adhesive that falls outside the tight fitting metal surfaces , doesn't cure completely and can be wiped off and cleaned up.
Wow! Thanks! Lots of good information.
I'm thinking of testing other aspects of the activator like cure speed and use on cold fasteners. 😎
excellent info - thank you
Very interesting and well done
I always just cleaned the threads with an aerosol brake cleaner, allowed the surfaces to dry, then applied the threadlocker. I never experienced a problem except for having to heat the bolt or the nut to remove it, using the "Red". Thanks for your efforts in this experiment.
Thanks! 👍😎
Excellent work.
Thanks!