The Honest TRUTH - How Much Stronger is Loctite Red than Loctite Blue?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- Find out how much stronger Loctite red threadlocker is than Loctite blue threadlocker on fastened nuts. I tested and compared the strength of Loctite's permanent 271 red threadlocker and removable 242 blue threadlocker. Learn what I found out.
@HacksbyDad
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Loctite Red & Blue are available at Amazon...
Permanent 271 Red... amzn.to/3qDV7yC
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Thank you
Thanks for not dragging this out for a half hour.... I like getting right to the point.
LOL
You're welcome!
Agree. Everything we needed or wanted to know in 3 minutes.
You guys weren’t interested in the history of threads, locking compounds, and putting things on other things?
@@lebojaylol. Depends on the day or mood I'm in.
@@HacksbyDad what if you read and followed the directions, and used the primer that Loctite recommends for Red Loctite?
I would like to see a similar test under vibration conditions. Hang a known weight from each sample & subject the bar to the same vibration then compare time to break free for each. Loctite is primarily designed to protect against vibration & temperature related expansion & contraction effects, not so much for static rotational loading.
Exactly
This is only supposed to be a simple demonstration. I liked the video and what was presented.
Good idea. The fact that both loctite nuts require a high maintained torque for removal implies they will do far better under vibration than the non-loctite nuts. It's worth testing.
When they had training wheels, my kids’ bikes’ wheels used to fall off all the time-usually at least twice on a ride to and from the nearby park.
After realizing that my work used loftier to prevent just this on our products, I used regular Elmer’s glue on the nuts & bolts. The training wheels never fell off again!
but if you have to eventually remove screw from weak materials like plastic blue loctice is the only way to go. Red is just too strong and plastic crumble :)
The point of Loctite is to keep the nut from backing off, not to keep it from being able to be undone. If you don't want the nut to ever move, weld it.
That's not what locktight claims. On their website they say, Loctite Threadlocker Red 271 is a permanent solution for locking and sealing threaded fasteners and is only removable once cured by heating up parts to 500°F (260°C).
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@@Coolcarting Facts, we use 277 at work and if the holes are cleaned and prep'd properly the studs we set are basically impossible to remove without heat
@@Coolcarting Only the Red uses the word "permanent", and some of the products must be Heat Cured.
"Our range of threadlocker strengths include:
LOCTITE® 222 - A low-strength purple threadlocker. Works on all metals and is especially good for applications that may require disassembly.
LOCTITE® 243 - A medium-strength blue threadlocker that offers a good general-purpose solution to seal and secure assemblies.
LOCTITE® 263 - A high-strength red threadlocker designed for permanent locking and sealing of threaded fasteners.
LOCTITE® 248 - The same performance as LOCTITE® 243 but in stick form, this is a blue, medium-strength threadlocking adhesive that works on all metals.
LOCTITE® 268 - A high-strength threadlocker stick suitable for applications requiring a stronger bond, though needs heating to 480°F (250°C) for disassembly"
I reached out to the company and asked them their take on this subject, and I will post it to your Reply and on the main thread when they respond.
I use Locktite 638... and same thing.. you have to BURN it out!!!
Thank you for the comparison in a short video. It was bullet point, accurate and didn't make me fall asleep. Props!
LOL… thanks! I really appreciate the feedback.
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What a much more pleasant test than those conducted by Project Farm. No shouting. No unnecessary repeating. No resulting headache. Good job.
Thanks! 😎
Thanks for not wasting our time with a 20 minute video.
I always felt like the red was used for breaking strength and the blue helps with backout strength so a screw wouldn't walk out from vibration. That's how I use the red and blue in the rc hobby. Red if I don't want it to move at all and blue if I just need to make sure the screw doesn't fall out if it does break loose.
Yeah... that's common. For small screws/bolts red is pretty much permanent where the heads will strip or break when trying to remove.
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The story is in the specifications. Everyone is aware of the breaking strength, but loctite spec sheets tell you that the size of the broken blue particles are quite large, while red turns to powder. Blue provides resistance the whole way off
@@gregeoryldepends on where it was applied and how long it sat on the bolt. Eventually they all turn to powder.
I concur. My usage exactly.
Take the green one
Was a great reinstatement for the hand-loosening afterwards. Blue was easy to remove but enough to stop rattling off id suppose. Thanks for the video
You’re welcome.
Thanks for the feedback.
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Straight to the point, no nonsense yapping, thanks for sharing.
They are made for two different applications blue for retaining a bolt or nut from vibration and made to be removed with regular tooling the red is for locking application and heat is needed to brake the bond to remove if you clean the matting surfaces they work as intended .
i was come for write these.
You was explained better than i think
Wow..! best demo I've seen. Short and concise. EXCELLENT!
Good test. I've ridden Harleys for the past 35 years, and I put blue Loctite on EVERYTHING to keep everything together with all the vibration my bikes put out. It does the job. I use red on things that I don't have any intention of removing like sissybar sideplates, and accessory mounts.
Yeah Harley should come with a gallon
@@joeKisonue 😂
On tiny fasteners, M3/M4 on my RC cars back in the day, blue was more than enough! In that case, it was more for stopping stuff from spinning loose due to vibration.
I love how you covered all the variables. Nice one Dad =)
Thanks! I appreciate the feedback.
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Short and to the point, excellent video!!
I've always used the blue loctite on bolts. The reason is simply because I view it as being the "nylock nut" of the bolt world. 😊
I learned from this too always use Red,
I just use nylocs on everything 😇
Precisely.
There’s loads of different loctite , that’s why they represented by a number. It has to do with application also . I’ve had specs to follow that you use 3 dots( when you squeeze the bottle a droplet falls ) up a thread to a line up ( you squeeze a line and it remains a line , not bladdered everywhere) the thread. One application we use a line on thread on a highly flex frame and a bolt under high stress . We torqued up to 30lb and breaking it is 90Lb-120lb . If we fit to less it’s comes free or seizes in place due to moisture , apply to much then the only way to crack it is using loads of heat ( not what you want on a highly flexible frame ) . The right application you can usually find in manufacturers assembly/service guides
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I was not looking for anything like this video. It just showed up on my front page. However, I’m liking and commenting because you didn’t drag this out and it was informative. Good video and straight to the point.
Thanks! Appreciate it!
subscribed simply because he is to the point and gets the info quickly, thanks
Finally some one who doesn't drag on and on. Thanks!
really interesting video , no blabla, just fact, very good
Thanks! 😎
Plain and simple explanation, yet very informative. Thanks.
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Such is the reason Red Loctite Threadlocker is listed as "Permanent" by the manufacturer and less apt to vibrations, usable for gasoline and petroleum presence areas. Cure time is 5-15 minutes dependent on the material used; Steel, Brass, or Stainless Steel. The manufacture advertises a 3/8"-16 grade 5 bolt break-away at 6.25 to 18.75 ft. lbs. (in. lb. conversion) The use of "Primer" accelerates setting times; see manufacturer's specifications. In many cases, Loctite specifies the use of the red color, (dependent on product number for purpose of use) for larger gap areas. Please be aware that simply the color does not mean the application. In the automotive machine shop business, I use many Loctite products, always with the trust of proper function when using the proper "primer" before application. Thanks for your video posting.
Best well compiled video, straight to the point without the extra bs
Thanks! Appreciate it!
Everyone likes to think the red loctite is "permanent-forever-welded-torches to get it off" but in reality it only requires a bit more torque to break it free. Rust will always cause more problems and realistically loctite prevents rust so it probably makes most bolts easier to remove over time in the North.
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Although in my case, red lock tite on very small screw will strip if you force it, I have to use brake cleaner to dissolve it.
Excellent point
You may be right in some circumstances but try to undo a shallow flathead screw that has a few drops of 263 red loctite on it... have tried a few times myself out of curiosity without any luck haha. When I eventually need to get it free I will just weld a nut to it but have fun with the “right” tool for the job.
You say that but I've stripped bolts from the top that had red loctite because I didn't use break cleaner lol
I have to agree with others that the real benefit of any Loctite is to keep the fastener from rattling loose once it has come a little bit loose. I have a .22 cal handgun that had the front sight come loose every time I shot it. Finally I cleaned the threads in the barrel and the screw and reinstalled it with blue Loctite. It hasn't come loose again in 40 years.
I use blue on fasteners in my large model airplanes. Just don't get it on plastic. It will embrittle plastic like servo output shafts and cause them to break.
I use clear craft glue ( shoe glue) on many applications that are not torqued.
If you don't remove the plating from the thread I believe you will need to use Loctite primer before you apply Loctite for optimal break-away torque values. Try using cleaned uncoated fasteners and repeat the test see if the results change.
If I have to remove the plating to make it work I might as well weld it at that point
There's nothing like the scientific method.
Excellent video.
While interesting-You MISS the point of Loctite-it is to prevent vibration movement-like a nyloc nut-not to resist tool useage.
solved an old question for me. Thanks! This also shows the resistance of Loctite to backing off once loosened.
You’re welcome! 👍😎
Best video short and sweet! Thank you kind sir! 🙏
Thank you, you answered a question I have had for several years now.
The point of thread locker is to prevent loosening by vibrations...
There is a slight flaw in your test -- if you are pulling vertical down on your scale, the actual lever arm length depends on the cosine of the angle. It would only be 1 ft when the wrench is horizontal. It gets shorter when the wrench is at an angle. If you were using the scale on the torque wrench (which is probably not super accurate but should be repeatable) angle won't matter.
Your right, but the measurable difference is probably only around 1 ftlb, so to show a load difference between three sets of nuts while loosening them the same way, itll still show a difference. The numbers might be a little bit off but the fact of red vs blue vs no loctite having different stengths is shown.
@@skie6282 At 30 degrees, about 1.5 ft-lb error when reading "11" and about 2 ft-lb error when reading "15", but I noticed the angles were not consistent through the test so it hampers any attempt at repeatability or statistics.
@@skie6282 Don’t forget about the coefficient of break away torque do to friction which was instructed to be 20%!
A better test would utilize a digital torque wrench
Good info. Succinct. Well done.
I saw a video the other day about red loctite. Supposedly the instructions state you are supposed to use an activation spray with it for fasteners without active metal, which is a good number of fastners like zinc coated.
Excellent scientific method
Thanks! Appreciate the feedback!
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Im subscribing because you got right to the point. No 11 min video with a 2 min intro.
LOL… thanks!
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Excellent work! Thank you for the info!
You’re welcome!
I’m planning to test Permatex thread lockers soon. Stay tuned…
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Perfect. Easy and understanding. That's all I wanted to know. Thanks
Something's wrong here. My experience is far different. I used Red on studs (replacing lug bolts) on my track car. When ready to remove the studs, the only way to loosen them was with liberal use of a torch first and far more torque than referenced here. Note that I used spray brake cleaner to clean the bolts and holes first. As the tests in this video show, not cleaning the bolts can be nearly equivalent to not using Locktite.
Note that these are shiny fresh nuts and threads. If they were old and rusty i imagine it would be more difficult. Maybe your application also had threads rust too along with the loctite.
Thank you. This is exactly what I was looking for!
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In most uses it's just to prevent backing off of nuts or bolts, etc. The blue is for the ability to hold but still be able to back it off without damage. The red is to hold in more adverse conditions and be much harder to loosen and back off. I have had situations were red has been used and did not back off this easily. And yes, at times it did require me to heat it up. To say that this is not required is foolishness. I never use red unless I plan on basically never needing the nut or bolt to ever be loosened. Otherwise it's always blue. And all that is with or without lockwashers and such. Just another safety step. Specially on fasteners that could cause serious damage or injury.
Thank your for the video. To be honest i never liked threadlockers. They are just a simple "glue" and as any glue the surfaces must be absolutely clean in order to glue properly. and we men know that working with bolts and nuts is always going to be in a dirty environment covered by dirt and grease everywhere. Also the curing time is around 24 hours. Thats why i prefer split-washers, not need to clean, not need to wait.
Red - Stud lock
Blue - Nut lock
Plain nut - If torque tightening is loosened by thermal dynamics or other stess the nut will spin away.
With blue on it will not. ( like a nylok nut)
Loctite Super Wick In - is a good thing aswell
Loved it. Thanks. Never really knew exactly how much different the two were. //ji
Great video! Exactly the info I was search for!
Thanks! I appreciate the feedback.
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Very thoughtfully done. Thank you!
You’re welcome! Thank you for the feedback.
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Great video, as determined by the usefulness of the comments!!!
Thanks!
I use a lot of thread locker Purple. First, it excludes water so the fastener does not rust internally on the threads. Secondly, it helps prevent vibration from loosening the fastener. Third, I can get the fastener, especially small screws, apart later. A heat gun facilitates removal, especially of all grades of threadlocker.
hi arncital have you become a flat earther yet? If not I suggest watch a 13 part series called _What on earth happened_ by Ewaranon to learn that the earth is not a globe. I got it in my about tab.
I suspect the Loctite bond continues to get stronger for a lot longer time than 24 hours
also I think that it is supposed to seal the threads against water and salt penetration which would cause corrosion over time although antiseize or even plumbers' Teflon would do the same
does probably reduce "walking" due to vibration
the high strength one is usually heat resistant, there are also medium strength thread lockers with medium heat resistance or sealing properties
Heat resistance? Hmmmm… I just might do a video about that. Thanks!
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Cool vid!Short and to the point gets my subscription!
Thanks!
Theory, Simple is the best.
This video makes me be your subscriber.
Thanks!
Excellent presentation! Good job! 👍
Thanks… again! 😎
Inactive metals require activator. This includes "any plated parts, anodized aluminium (i.e. Alodine® or Iridite ), titanium, stainless steel, galvanized steel, zinc, pure aluminium, cadmium, magnesium, natural or chemical black oxide, magnetite steel, Iconel or any of your precious metals such as silver or gold."
You pretty much named everything.
Perhaps they should say what it does work on instead
I like the simplicity of this test as it's a real life application.
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I just broke loose some nuts on 5/16" stainless bolts and i had applied loctite 271 about 9 months ago on them and it was probably 3-4x the force you used to break yours loose. I had to really lean on my long ratchet.
Yeah… might have been the 24-hour cure time. When I get a chance, I’ll redo the test with a much longer cure time. Maybe at least a month. Thanks for sharing.
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Making mining drills, the engineering decision came down to me...
"Should use blue loctite..."
Whys that?
"Stays flexible, less prone to vibration"
I like your thought process...
Red sets hard. Once its cracked, its cracked.
Silicone, blue loctite,etc... far better of it shakes.
Someone else mentioned that he uses caulking. I just might do a vibration test with silicone and painter's caulk. Thanks!
I am going to the shop now, I believe this gentleman has my torque wrench! My Son's laugh at my old beam style torque wrench, probably the only reason I have kept it this long.
Your sons may laugh, but a click-type is only as good as it's last calibration. In beam-style, the accuracy is built into the metallurgy of the wrench itself. Yep, I also own the TR featured in the video!
@@bradyt7857 There are a couple of things they will most likely keep when I am done with them, that torque wrench is one of them.
Nice and to the point. Thanks for the video
That you for providing this video demonstration.
You’re welcome.
I have an idea on how to possibly do a vibration test. Stay tuned…
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that is nice experiment!
thanks
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Blue for nuts/bolts to keep from vibrating/ working way loose.
Red to REALLY lock them down in more permanent applications.
Bare for your alternator adjustment!
Nice & to the point.
Excellent job my friend very nice testing
Thanks!
Please try some JB Weld on the threads in the future… I would be interested!
Hmmm... maybe compare red loctite, JB Weld, and super glue? I'll think about it. 😎
@@HacksbyDad Maybe show how a greasy nut and bolt would under perform the control too?
Very good and detailed test. Thanks.
You're welcome and thanks for the feedback.
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Nice video , you know how to do it , make more.
Very good video. It surprises me to see the blue loctite is not that strong compared to a plain bolt. However, it must do something. Grettings from Madrid, Spain!
It just stops nuts or bolts from backing out.
Right to the point! Very interesting video! Thanks!
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concise and to the point 👍
Personally I think it would take more like 3 days of dry conditions for the friction medicine to dry, in the usual places. Unless they are dried in the sun or warm air circulation around them for 24 hours.
Maybe I'll redo the test and let the parts sit for several days before removing the nuts. Thanks.
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Loctite does not air dry, it is anaerobic. It remains liquid if any air is present.
242 doesn't tolerate any oil and is supposed to have threads cleaned and prepped with Loctite Primer. 271 does tolerate some oil and doesn't call for the use of Loctite Primer. There is a Blue Loctite that does tolerate some oil and higher temperature called, Loctite 243. The high temperature version of Red Loctite is 262.
On a small screw thread like on rifle scope rings , rifle scope Picatinny rail . Those red Locktite would mean almost permanent installation.
The screw head WILL STRIP .
Been using purple for all my gun needs for years. It's harder to find but it's weaker than the blue. Never had anything come loose while using it tho.
The best “please like” I’ve seen 😀
Thanks for this great Video 😊
The type of metal, thread pitch, and size make a huge difference.
I believe loctite different colors are for specific size range of bolts. For example pink is for bolts under 1/4” blue up to 1/2” etc its strength is based on torque a bolt would be subjected to. Bolt torque varies by size for clamping force or tensile strength n stretch.
Thanks! There is quite a bit of overlap on recommended bolt sizes. From Loctite's literature... the colors identify the adhesive strength and removability.
Red - high strength
Blue - medium strength
Purple - low strength.
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test fingernail polish to the blue . lot of times i just use fingernail polish as a substitute. locker it to help keep the nut from backing off under vibrations. red is used of crank shaft nuts and other high speed nuts . blue is for body fenders frame . lot of times a book wil say what to use .
Seems like blue is like a thread protector and also helps reduce the chance of a nut backing off. Red is to assist in holding the nut to the bolt.
Thanks, that was very useful.
Since others are saying theyve experienced more force needed to remove loxtite nuts, maybe get some nut amd bolts, put them in vinigar for a few days, brush off some of the flaky rust so then youll have a set of aged nuts and bolts, apply the loctite again and maybe let it sit a few days?? Also maybe do higher torque like 20 or 25ftlbs. Id love to see the results personally!
Big Thank You 👏👏
I don’t think you had enough curing time. I ranch on equipment for a living, stuff I put blue Loctite on and red Loctite on take significant amounts of torque to remove once they’ve been there for a year.
Nice job. Thank you.
On larger fasteners, Red Loctite becomes Blue Loctite, in that it's easily removable with hand tools. Red on small fasteners, that will break stuff.
Parabéns pelo conteúdo
Eu aprendi muito
Continente assim
For quick use of Loctite, when you don't have time for the full cure use a hair dryer on the low setting for a minute or two.
Last night i was taking apart my 2x72 belt grinder and i had used red 271 loctite on all the fasteners (mostly 5/16-18 stainless (18-8) hex bolts and nuts. The first nut didn't want to budge when using a ratchet so i grabbed a 36" breaker bar and i was able to get it loose. Second nut was tough with the breaker and i ended up turning breaking the bolt right off. For the rest of them, i gave them a light torching and that made the rest of them simple.
Based on your results, i wonder if you got some counterfeit loctite.
I looked up how lock tight is made and how it works. Very interesting check it out.
Thanks!
Can you do this to demonstrate how
PTFE tape actually works. Please.
The tape doesn't seal the pipe but,
As it reduces friction like a lubricant that allows a better machine fit.
I just installed a Chinese pipe fitting with poorly machined threads, and liquid pipe dope would not seal it all the way. Tape did. I always thought it for lubrication only and didn’t seal, but it does indeed seem to have some sealing properties.
I would also like to see a video demonstrating the product and testing it under different pressures.
Well done. Thanks.
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Great video. If you put that on smaller bolts the results will get worst. Small bolts need very little not strong lock tire.
I was taught:
Blue anywhere room temp.
Red anywhere warm.
Rockset or JB anywhere hot
I just weld the nuts lol
Loctite initially acts as a lubricant so the torque should be derated since there is less friction in the threads. Loctite also fills voids in between threads so it can prevent ingress of moisture which can lead to corrosion and seizing. Blue Loctite can be useful for tie rod end jam nuts. Prevents them from backing out and makes them easier to loosen for adjustment or replacement.
Loctite being a lubricant is a common misconception. Here's a my video on the subject... th-cam.com/video/SLBx09En_P0/w-d-xo.html
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@@HacksbyDad I guess the engineers at Loctite don’t know what they re doing then. Read their documentation.
@@chrishamel3001 Their technical data sheet and threadlocker manual do not state that it is a lubricant.
- Technical data sheet dm.henkel-dam.com/is/content/henkel/TDS-209741-US-Loctite-Threadlocker-Red-271-Carded-Tube-0.20-fl-oz-2018-04-09pdf
Threadlocker manual - dm.henkel-dam.com/is/content/henkel/LOCTITE-Threadlocker-Manual
They do say that the affect on friction (k-factor) of a threaded assembly needs to be determined on a case by case basis.
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@@HacksbyDad read page 78. Although Loctite is not intended as a lubricant, it will reduce scatter like a lubricant which is why a derated torque should be selected. If the specified torque is for lubricated threads you are good to go with the spec and Loctite.
@@chrishamel3001 Are you referring to another page? I don't see where it says to derate the torque.
Page 78... Lubricity
How lubrication reduces torque-tension scatter is described in section 6.3.3. Some
LOCTITE® Threadlockers have additives that help lubricate the assembly as well as
oil and grease. However, the effect of this property is dependent on the threaded
fasteners used in the assembly.
Page 46 - section 6.3.3... The use of a lubricant does not eliminate all other variables off friction, nor does it eliminate torque-tension scatter, but it does help to reduce scatter. Therefore, the presence of a lubricant and the underlying friction conditions still need to be known and should be tested for a given configuration.
It should also be noted that lubrication of an assembly and the reduction of input torque also reduces the bearing friction and thread friction that hold a threaded assembly together, thus making self-loosening more probable.
Derating the torque thinking that Loctite is a lubricant could be a double-whammy. First, because the threadlocker could cause more friction, thus less nut/bolt torque. Second, reducing torque to a general lubricant spec could decrease the already lower torque. Both of these will reduce the clamp load... scary!
If there is a torque spec specifically for Loctite, you're good to go. If there isn't, I wouldn't use a general lubricant spec like for oil or anti-seize.
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Now compare brown and black Loctite to blue and red! Brown is what GM recommended to use on Spicer differentials to keep the bolts on the ring gear and pinion from working loose, and BLACK on brake shoes to keep them tight. When Daddy worked on B-47's they had Green and Yellow and Orange Loctites for different fasteners and heat resistances. ARP fasteners has their own "thread lockers" for their super-quality bolts and studs. ARP main cap bolts (or studs) with thread-locker on them, make a man of you breaking them down again. Like most aircraft fasteners, you don't use a torque wrench, you measure the STRETCH of the stud or bolt with calipers or a micrometer. For giggles, I once put a 5/16" x 28 TPI ARP in a vise to see how much it would take to snap it with a nut. Using 1/2" drive 28" long break-over and socket, I FINALLY broke it near 300 ft/lbs.!!!
Korean machine tools use white loctite.
They paint all the threads with white paint before assembly...
When I didn't have loctite I used any nail polish and it does the same.
well done --- Thank you