Thanks, Ron, for going the long extra mile to dig deeper and apply some empirical testing to create some plausible hypothesis as to where some of the anomalies you're hearing are coming from. The care you apply in your fastidious approach, clear articulation of the words you choose to convey your observations are par excellence. You're in rarified air, my friend, and I for one am grateful for you doing what you do. I also want to acknowledge how far you've come since years past. The fact that you keep getting better is just a testament to your dedication to learning. 🏆
This may be my favorite speaker review yet regardless of reviewer, I could hear exactly what you meant between the clips. This is the type of nerdery and attention to sonic details I'd hope all reviewers have. You have my standing ovation for this one!
You're spot on about the coupling, Ron. Those ball bearings are coupling, or transferring, the vibrations from the speaker to the stand. Similar to spikes, the resonance frequency is higher. Decoupling, such as rubber based products for example, decouple the vibrations from the speakers and the stand. The resonance frequency in decoupling is usually at a lower frequency.
At 58 years old and an early lifetime filled with concerts and loud car stereos, I have difficulty hearing frequencies above 12 Khz. During your comparison, the Platimons sounded subdued or even muffled on the high end, while the hidden comparison speaker was more clear and detailed without losing the low end reverb on the voice recording. If I was about to purchase the Platimons, this review would have been a godsend. Though they'd still be acceptable with some tone controls or perhaps equalization, critical listening is often done with using a pure or direct signal, so knowing what they sound like straight out of the box allows a much more comprehensive evaluation when choosing speakers in that price range, as well as potential component pairing. Very well done Ron!
Thank you for a fantastic review. The Platimon had considerable noise around the vocal. It sounded like a distorted microphone, even though clearly it was the speaker itself. The mystery speaker had a quieter background, creating more intimacy with the music.
What a fantastic review. This is exactly the way sound clips should be used. Acknowledging and encouraging divergent tastes and the nature of musical engagement/experience is unfortunately not the norm. You and Herb are kindred spirits Ron! Thank you again. /
I had a fairly nice pair of Elac monitors. If memory serves me correctly, they were better with female voices than male. I recall with some instrument and drums I thought they were awesome with the AMT. To me the AMT seemed more like a music specific tweeter and not a really good all arounder. AMT definitely has a unique sound. I dont hate an AMT, but I prefer a beryllium tweeter.
I often struggle to describe sound. If I were pressed to describe in one word, the masked speakers sound more "organic". And I like that sort of sound. On another note, the "X2 Music Tomb" is looking good!
Ron - in this review you have demonstrated your mastership of such to a level that, quite frankly, I do not think that "most" other reviewers will ever achieve. As far as the audible differences (sound clips).... you did such an amazing job of whatever you did that I could absolutely hear the differences through my TV let alone head-phones .. and I'll say... I liked both speakers. Oh and those ball bearings? When I first learned (from another review) that they were part of the stand/speaker system (?).... I thought "What?" ....just "what?" This review was simply stellar💫
This was great. Clear descriptions. Sounded honest. I loved the sound clips, and prefer the vocals of the mystery speaker. I hope you keep this style of review.🇿🇦
Wish more people could place their speakers out into the room like you show. I was amazed how much it improved every aspect of my Buchardt S400MK2 SE's. Love this thorough review.
That superb acoustic space the "NRD-Shed" is one of the best things to happen for the TH-cam audio review scene, thumbs way up! It takes your review game to the can't ignore NRD cuz Ron is no joke! Only one other YT- audio reviewer I can think of has a comparable room. So the differences in the sound clips are directly attributable to room influence and of course the design and material choices of the speakers themselves. The open baffle speakers take full advantage of the the quadratic diffusers and panel absorption, more airy, more open, with a longer decay time. I think the biggest advantage of box type speakers is that the box can sound more than satisfying for most common (untreated) rooms whereas panel types may not. For uncommon rooms (superbly treated and designed) open type speakers are the revelation
I hear some sibilance on the Platimons, and on the mystery speaker, I hear a bit more coherence and voice clarity. I used to have full range aluminum cabinet floorstanding speakers, with a magnesium/aluminum tweeter, two aluminum cone midrange drivers, and large 10" paper woofer for lows. Those speakers midrange delivered noticeable sibilance above 2k with female alto and some soprano voices. I suspect is indeed metallic resonance at some high freqs that is the culprit. Thanks Ron, as always a very balance thorough review.
The back to back recordings were killer. Fair review and I applaud you have the courage to go against the grain with other reviewers and actually post something less than 'Its the best EvAr!' type of review.
WOW, that was a master class of what i think we all wish reviewers did for speakers and other components , let dig DEEPER with audio samples! appreciate you! :)
The tiny contact surface on the Ball Barring acts as an Impedance mismatch between the 3 surfaces. It is the same with spikes or points at the bottom of speaker stands. Vibration is not transferred very well through the contact point. The issues i see with the ball barring is speaker movement. The cone moves forward, the speaker moves backwards on the balls. This 'vibration' may cause the speakers to sound a bit muddy or unclear, or it may just sound warmer depending on the listeners preference.
I can relate to your comment about cabinet sound. Since I discovered Dahlquest DQ10s 40+ years ago, the sound of Omnis, bipole/dipole/open baffles have always been very attractive.
I think the platimons are beautiful speakers, however when you did the comparison I preferred the sound of the second set of speakers.I found the second set of speakers to have a more natural, deeper sounding voice then the platimons. But I also prefer a more neutral sounding speaker. Keep up the good work.
AMTs are difficult to blend in with woofers, and are usually more successful when they are used in conjunction with a dedicated midrange driver. I suspect this 'disconnect' (which I also hear on the recording) is what is happening with the Platts.
Holy crap. It is a lot more noticeable then I would have expected to grab from a TH-cam video. On the platimon it completely sounds like to audio layers pieced together. 😊
Thanks, Ron for such an objective as poss. review. Highly enjoy your style of presentation (& sense of humour, too - dark is good... I'm Scottish). Heard these @ a show in Tokyo ... I know, shows aren't the best place to really be able to hear products properly - however, these speakers stood out above 99% of all other components. They just sounded stunning w/ Kraftwerk & some Lee Perry. Ron, you're *very* right about choosing them depending on your favoured musical tastes. They are excellent for slightly heavier music, or less-than-super hi-fi recordings in pretty much every way, electronic-based & dub. Thanks for reminding me about them. Thanks from Japan, (ex-Scotland). (re; Isolation - There always trying out using 1" [25mm] wide strips cut from a sheet of thick sorbothane >> placing around perimeter of stand and 3 x 1" wide strips vertically].
Brilliant sound clip demo. It's so difficult describing sound characteristics. I don't think I can imagine what the sound would be from your description, your sound clip demo nails it, it's just one cohesive whole, a more natural voice. Brilliant review.
AMT tweeters are interesting. There is something novel (pleasing) but unnatural about them. And i think its the blend with the mid woofer that gives it up. They often "feel" disjointed at the handoff point. (Subjectively)
Affordable nitrile or EPDM rubber balls in various sizes are available in your hydraulics/water pump shop in various sizes. Might be more suitable than those steel balls.
Holy crapcicles NRD! You just became my favourite reviewer! More of these comparisons! I don’t care that we don’t know what the other speakers are as long as the differences are exemplified so that we get a deeper understanding. Great job!
I just saw this you posted 3 hours ago. I totally agree on the honesty portion of your pod cast. It helps your approach or reviews look at different prospectives.
Exemplary review Ron ⭐️💪🏻 That’s a lot of work but it’s much appreciated and very well done. Yes there’s more metallic twang on the Platimons as the name would suggest. But they also sound fuller with more presence. Great when I want to listen for a short time. The mystery speakers are more natural laid back and I’d think better for me for background or low volume listening.
Wow, the differences were palpable even listening on my ipad, tip top Ron, more honest reviews like this. Cant wait for the mystery speaker reveal, what a great tease.
The side-by-side vocal comparison is interesting but i think the differences are simply the difference in overall response and room interactions. I'm not sure if the speaker you're comparing to is an open baffle, but vocals on an open baffle will reflect off the back wall, which involves the room more in the presentation, which adds a bit of "reverb" like effect that makes the vocalist sound more like they are "in the room." This might sound "good" but you could achieve the same with a reverb filter on traditional baffle speakers.
The vocals with the "other speaker" sounded more consistent and better in my opinion. But what was the other speaker? Decoupled PlatiMons? Honestly, those little ball bearings are not decouplers. They are a gimmick in my opinion. Anyway, thanks for the video. Very informative, as usual!
great explanation on distinction of bass timbre from 6:20 min on... most of 5-6,5 midwoofers have this problem... they can produce a decent mid-bass, or even a great mid bass punch... but a right - natural bass timbre is often a problem... equation = more midbass punch, less natural timbre, so less true high fidelity
Thanks for sharing. Before this video, I thought this speaker will definitely be one of my top shortlisted speaker when I am going to upgrade my speaker in the future.
Ron, I too experienced that "weird" sound you heard. As you said, once you hear it, you can't un hear it. Thanks for pointing this out. You're the first reviewer that has identified this anomaly. Granted, it is subtle in the recorded soundtrack, but experiencing in person, I believe, this effect you speak about will be more noticeable.
Once Danny gets you to his reference open baffle designs, it's all over. Reviews take on a whole new dimension. A level of critical you were not aware of (was necessary) prior to Danny. The glowing reviews talking about unheard of levels of transparency etc. etc. Thanks for interjecting reality into this conversation.
This is what blows my mind, reading through the comments at least 3 people preferred the Platimons, said they sounded clearer and more natural. So why is it that i heard the exact opposite (through my cheap soundcore Bluetooth headphones) and didn’t really have to try, i mean it was very obvious that the mystery speakers sounded a lot better. I just can't understand how anyone could prefer the Platimons, do people prefer bad sound? Do we all hear things differently? With some things you'd think it would be easy to get a consensus, sometimes its so obvious which is better, but whenever i listen to these comparison videos there's never a consensus, in fact there's always a larger percentage of people than expected who say the exact opposite of what the majority are saying and hearing. Is it their gear isnt up to scratch? Is it that they don't know what good sound sounds like? Im always left baffled. I swear i could mount a $3 speaker into a shoebox and run a 128 mp3 file through it and record it on a nokia from 2001 in an ampty tiled staircase and 12% of people would prefer it over this mystery speaker. 🤯
That’s because it could be just one aspect of the speakers, or one song(or a recording), or could be just the characteristic of each speaker. As Ron mentioned, it’s not about right or wrong. He said he is not a fan of AMT tweeter. So that explains it.
People do hear differently especially with age, but it can come down to the gear they're using to listen back to the audio, as well as their own preferences. Some people prefer a warmer or more relaxed sound, while others will prefer a more forward or exciting sound. Which to the first group, will likely come off as bright or even harsh. I'm particularly sensitive to the 1-3Khz range so I probably wouldn't enjoy the Platimon speakers much.
Interesting, I do prefer the vocal body of the Platimons, but I can't deny that the mystery speaker presented a more natural, honest depiction of that sound clip. I consider the Platimons affordable end-game standmounts when compared to speakers way above it's price, but that mystery speaker has peaked my interest too much. Ron, you're a tease 😂
Ron, for what is worth I found the Platimons sounding as though her voice had been double tracked from two different mics and not as cohesive as a single voice across her range. I will listen to her voice on my Audiovectors, which have tweeters you seem not to like.
The wonky levels you took this review to is appreciated . You could’ve easily just said they’re hyped up in the hi mids and been done with it. Those clips showcase exactly what you were calling attention to . A useful TH-cam soundclip is almost impossible and you beat the odds with this one. I know some audiophiles who would choose those speakers for that exaggerated response.
Good review man. Just to confirm, yes, I could hear a problem with the female vocal. Was like hearing a bass and treble speaker seperated. But your "B" mystery speaker sounded very natural. Good call. And I heard this on cheap reference two way speakers, tube preamp, class D amp. I Guess Elac by AJ ain't so bad after all 😊. Thanks.
I came to revisit this video after the glowing review IIWI recently gave to these Platimons. Thanks Ron for the careful work and sound clips. The way the mystery speakers reproduce voices is what I'm looking for and I've been looking for years. What are the mystery speakers used in the sound clips? I tried to find it in your more recent reviews but it doesn't seem to be there. Thanks.
You know what I'd like and have never seen? A reviewer who breaks down the build quality and components used inside the speaker. What components do they use internally? What gauge of wire? How much do the parts cost?
The Platimons sound like they have a mild but clearly audible cavity resonance, similar to what would result from bringing an empty drinking glass into the nearfield during the recording. Given two ports and a high crossover point, could be woofer backwave resonating within and emerging from one or both ports. I imagine it's quite noticeable on legato piano runs.
Hey Ron, I can go on and articulate about the sound of these speakers, but I won't. What I can say is the sound you're hearing is mainly the aluminum cabinets. They are exaggerating the midrange around 600 to 1khz. I can hear the echoes in the mix profoundly. Which is very distracting. I commend you on your very fine work...
Synergy, synergy, synergy. Different equipment often leads to different impressions. Source, amplification, connecting cables, purity of power supplied, all can affect what we hear and we all hear slightly differently. Plus the particular choices we make in the music played. Example: years ago my brother and I were camping watching a sunset and he said, man look at those purples! Puzzled, I said what purples?
What brand of speaker cable risers are you using? Im having issues with the imagining on my speakers and thing my cables are not lifted correctly off the floor.
The Platimons have that tink-a-tink sound character I almost always hear from an AMT tweeter. They do seem to be more resolving and less "dead" than the second pair of speakers, but I see the point about more body and connecting the dots better with the 2nd pair. Of course, this is via TH-cam and headphones, so not the best conduit.
I did not hear it as clear as I did after you played the mystery speaker. When I heard the Platimons the second time around, though, my first thought was how someone would sing if they had a mouthguard in their mouth that stopped nightly teeth grinding. To me, the mystery speaker presents her vocals more naturally and pleasing to my ears. Can't wait for you to unveil those.
Thanks! I think we are hearing the same thing. I agree that the mystery speaker did a great job at portraying her vocals and building that bridge from her chest voice up to the upper harmonics. Appreciate the comment!
Nothing in this price range as the platimons, this is what I experienced between the Emotiva T-Zero+ vs CSS 1TDX. The T0+ was actually more detailed and had a wider soundstage than the 1TDX, but portions of the music felt disconnected. 1TDX gave me a more holistic experience even at the expense of ultimate detail and airiness. AMT tweeters are very impressive for dialog and detail but I think the speed mismatch between them and the woofer, I think, becomes apparent.
The sound on the mystery speakers sounded much more reverberant, perhaps contributing to the sense of fullness in the vocals. I wonder how the Platimons might benefit from less decoupling, and more coupling.
Very well thought out and descriptive review! Edit: the Platimons sounded very good, but the voice in the other speakers sounded more "together" somehow? More unified, less grainy (not a good descriptor), less etched and more natural? I don't know how to describe it.
Is this a common characteristic of AMT ? I have Elac UB52 at my desk with Emotiva B1+ stacked upside down on top of them. I always noticed an "etherical" effect on the high frequencies on the AMT's I am now wondering if the Ribbon emission will have that effect on the highs as the surface area is not a uniform dome. I can also understand how some of this may lend to a perception that the stage is more open with crisp highs distributing all over the place. Could the less natural render itself as more desirable ? The Other speaker B I will guess was silk dome. The vocals seemed to involve the room more.
Hello teacher! how are you? I'm just starting out in the audiophile world and I need some recommendations if you don't mind. I have a medium 15M2 living room. And among the amplifiers that I saw and can access as a mortal are the Marantz pm6007, Yamaha s301 and the Nad316BEE V2 and speakers like the Klipsch RP500 MKII, Wharfedale Diamond 12.2 and Sony SSCS5. What combinations can you recommend if you are so kind? greetings from Argentina!
paused at 21.45 (Sennheiser 650). Ok so my best description is the first one emphasises the echo and the second clearers most of the echo out of the way. The second is more focused on her where as the first is concentrating on delivering that chamber sound.
I couldn't tell if what I heard was reverb from the room in which the track was recorded which the Plantations highlighted more that the other speaker, or if it was speaker box sound. I can't say I like one more than the other, just that there was a difference.
What if my beloved possession feels different than me but I keep moving them around. Who would like that?? Open the lid and let your speakers find their happy place on their own.
@@Newrecordday2013 I don’t know if that was your plan with the “sound shed” channel, but it could be used for you delving into recording local artists. Was that your plan?
Your measurements show 'head in a vice' placing as opposed to as speaker that is well designed ( Genelec 8361) which disqualifies the Platimons for me.
I have questions about the metal balls the speaker rests on. If driver firing causes the speaker to wobble back, it seem like it would compromise the sound wave. Sort of like if you were trying to jump across something, would you rather jump from something wobbly or a rock?
The ball bearing does not make the speaker wobble at all. Just because you see someone pushing and makes it wobble doesn’t mean those heavy cabinet speakers move on the ball bearing. You should look up for ball bearing isolation technology. Try the book Vibration and shock handbook” by Clarence W de Silva. A system that can oscillate (like a speaker on a stand with a ball bearing decoupling mechanism) has a characteristic frequency at which it naturally vibrates, known as the natural frequency. This is determined by the mass of the object and the stiffness of the springs (or in this case, the effective stiffness of the ball bearings). Balls act as mediums of transmitting. The effectiveness of the ball bearing decoupling mechanism would be evaluated based on the system’s ability to minimize transmissibility, especially around the resonant frequency.
@@newdevilman1167 Of course the speaker moves on the ball bearing. It it didn't the ball wouldn't be effective. That's what the ball bearing is there for. Which is great for isolating from external forces, which is what the 1500 page textbook you recommended talks about. This design is great for decoupling components (dacs amps etc). Not so great when you are trying to maximize the internal forces the speaker is generating.
@@WhiteBubblySoup I am talking about the visible wobbliness you mentioned earlier. I thought your comment could mislead others as this kind of ball bearing movement is minimal and contained. :)
Did I miss the following: Who Platimon is, where they are made, what the cost is, perspective photos of the speakers, where they are sold. I listened for 10 minutes, pretty sure there was none of that info. This is a troubling (for me) aspect of modern "journalism", i.e., not giving pertinent info up front, often never getting to it at all. That being said, the review of how they sound is excellent.
Ok Thanks!!! @ one point I was strongly considering launching a Channel but you are among the few balancing [truth=time-efforts/facts] equation Also your observations about AMTs are why I've not completed the speaker I built with Planars for the mids
I'm commenting before the end of the video, while the question is fresh in my mind. Why do you have two separate mics placed at on axis near field instead of recording the speaker playback from the listening position with a single stereo mic to emulate what the listener may hear? Personally in all my years of speaker building and listening, I've never found near field listening or testing to be representative of the speaker system as a whole. I pretty much just use it for pinpointing anomalies, but it's rare that the sound up close is anything like several feet or yards away. Maybe it's just me and my old timer approach where we used more subjective listening and trial and error and less measurements to assess speakers? Thanks for the great reviews. Maybe someday you would be interested in reviewing a restomod? I can send a pair or two if you're interested and don't worry I have thicker skin and look more for valuable feedback and objective results to make me a better builder and listener... Unlike eh... That dude that makes the baby blue speakers and whines at reviewers. Hey if my speakers suck it's constructive criticism and I'll work on that... If they rock-out in the bang for the buck department though, any confirmation is greatly appreciated and helps me figure out if I'm on the right path.
While I can appreciate such in depth reviews, as a 50 year audio head, I would not want to be tortured or haunted by such overly analytical awareness. It's a lot to go through, just to listen to music, not to mention dealing with just the not-so-subtle differences from one recording to the next. AMTs are just superfluous to me, personally. I'm still in awe with the performance of some soft domes that I own, some of which, are not very expensive and 2 decades on by now. This is one area of the frequency range that was not broken, as far as I am concerned, which manages to put these types of innovations in the category of novelties. $6k for a pair of stand mount speakers? Just not necessary. It's unfortunate that these boutique type products have managed to somewhat normalize these costs, for what they deliver. I have a pair of $600 speakers from around Y2k I still use every day, that I would not trade for these.
The more expensive speakers have a push towards PA speaker vibes in hardening the vocal due to those mild frequency boosts in the upper mids giving that hard push to it. I like the mystery speaker more. I like the more integrated natural sounding vocal.
Feels like a phase and level match issue that makes part of her vocals a little more forward. Crossover/driver thing probably as the cabinets probably aren't going to be continuing to resonance there. Probably sounds good with metal music! Maybe a bit fatiguing.
I hear it as a timber difference, but also a tonal difference, where something is sucked out there in the middle causing the voice to seem more honky, nasal and detached - less cohesive, less organic, less natural and more synthetic. Not my cup for sure - I prefer the mystery speaker by quite a margin - more cohesive, open, full, natural.
These speakers are so inert! They seem to be very imaging focused. I noticed that some of the reviewers that enjoyed the platimons the most used tube amps. Jay at one point used a tube amp as well as a r2r dac, likely adding a more pleasing decay structure with emphasized “air” and soundstage.
Great channel! I like your nerd-like, detailed approach to the topics. Who else has his own sound-shed to dive into some audiophile mania! :-) subscribed
Ron thanks for your honest review. I have to ask. Looks like in the background you lift the speaker cables off the floor. Do you notice a sound difference with the cables off the floor?
![CAMPปลิ้น | EP.82[2/2] เมาท์มอยกับ 3 สาวเพื่อนซี้ ที่พร้อมขยี้พ่อหมีได้ทุกเมื่อ](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Wwn7WnylNtQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks, Ron, for going the long extra mile to dig deeper and apply some empirical testing to create some plausible hypothesis as to where some of the anomalies you're hearing are coming from. The care you apply in your fastidious approach, clear articulation of the words you choose to convey your observations are par excellence. You're in rarified air, my friend, and I for one am grateful for you doing what you do.
I also want to acknowledge how far you've come since years past. The fact that you keep getting better is just a testament to your dedication to learning. 🏆
Man, that means the world to me!
This may be my favorite speaker review yet regardless of reviewer, I could hear exactly what you meant between the clips. This is the type of nerdery and attention to sonic details I'd hope all reviewers have. You have my standing ovation for this one!
Wow! Thank you!
You're spot on about the coupling, Ron. Those ball bearings are coupling, or transferring, the vibrations from the speaker to the stand. Similar to spikes, the resonance frequency is higher. Decoupling, such as rubber based products for example, decouple the vibrations from the speakers and the stand. The resonance frequency in decoupling is usually at a lower frequency.
Thanks Sean!
At 58 years old and an early lifetime filled with concerts and loud car stereos, I have difficulty hearing frequencies above 12 Khz. During your comparison, the Platimons sounded subdued or even muffled on the high end, while the hidden comparison speaker was more clear and detailed without losing the low end reverb on the voice recording. If I was about to purchase the Platimons, this review would have been a godsend. Though they'd still be acceptable with some tone controls or perhaps equalization, critical listening is often done with using a pure or direct signal, so knowing what they sound like straight out of the box allows a much more comprehensive evaluation when choosing speakers in that price range, as well as potential component pairing. Very well done Ron!
Thank you for a fantastic review. The Platimon had considerable noise around the vocal. It sounded like a distorted microphone, even though clearly it was the speaker itself. The mystery speaker had a quieter background, creating more intimacy with the music.
Great job Ron! Nailed it!! Loved how you got your sound clip to perfectly to expose the characteristic you were describing. 👍👍✌️
What a fantastic review. This is exactly the way sound clips should be used. Acknowledging and encouraging divergent tastes and the nature of musical engagement/experience is unfortunately not the norm. You and Herb are kindred spirits Ron!
Thank you again.
/
Glad you enjoyed it!
I had a fairly nice pair of Elac monitors. If memory serves me correctly, they were better with female voices than male. I recall with some instrument and drums I thought they were awesome with the AMT. To me the AMT seemed more like a music specific tweeter and not a really good all arounder. AMT definitely has a unique sound. I dont hate an AMT, but I prefer a beryllium tweeter.
The vocals from the mystery speakers were clearly preferred by me .
Appreciate the comment and feedback!
I often struggle to describe sound. If I were pressed to describe in one word, the masked speakers sound more "organic". And I like that sort of sound. On another note, the "X2 Music Tomb" is looking good!
Ron - in this review you have demonstrated your mastership of such to a level
that, quite frankly, I do not think that "most" other reviewers will ever achieve.
As far as the audible differences (sound clips).... you did such an amazing job
of whatever you did that I could absolutely hear the differences through my TV
let alone head-phones .. and I'll say... I liked both speakers. Oh and those ball bearings?
When I first learned (from another review) that they were part of the stand/speaker system (?).... I thought "What?" ....just "what?" This review was simply stellar💫
Man, thank you so much!
This was great. Clear descriptions. Sounded honest. I loved the sound clips, and prefer the vocals of the mystery speaker. I hope you keep this style of review.🇿🇦
Glad you enjoyed it!
Wish more people could place their speakers out into the room like you show. I was amazed how much it improved every aspect of my Buchardt S400MK2 SE's. Love this thorough review.
Hey thanks!
You know, these other reviewers are great and all but I think I’ll just go to Ron if I want to know how this stuff really sounds. Good job man!
I totally agree with the speaker comparison on that voice piece. Exactly what I heard.
That superb acoustic space the "NRD-Shed" is one of the best things to happen for the TH-cam audio review scene, thumbs way up! It takes your review game to the can't ignore NRD cuz Ron is no joke! Only one other YT- audio reviewer I can think of has a comparable room. So the differences in the sound clips are directly attributable to room influence and of course the design and material choices of the speakers themselves. The open baffle speakers take full advantage of the the quadratic diffusers and panel absorption, more airy, more open, with a longer decay time. I think the biggest advantage of box type speakers is that the box can sound more than satisfying for most common (untreated) rooms whereas panel types may not. For uncommon rooms (superbly treated and designed) open type speakers are the revelation
I hear some sibilance on the Platimons, and on the mystery speaker, I hear a bit more coherence and voice clarity. I used to have full range aluminum cabinet floorstanding speakers, with a magnesium/aluminum tweeter, two aluminum cone midrange drivers, and large 10" paper woofer for lows. Those speakers midrange delivered noticeable sibilance above 2k with female alto and some soprano voices. I suspect is indeed metallic resonance at some high freqs that is the culprit. Thanks Ron, as always a very balance thorough review.
Appreciate that!
Super detailed review - wow! - though everyone is screaming WHAT'S THE MYSTERY SPEAKER!!!
The back to back recordings were killer. Fair review and I applaud you have the courage to go against the grain with other reviewers and actually post something less than 'Its the best EvAr!' type of review.
Thanks!
WOW, that was a master class of what i think we all wish reviewers did for speakers and other components , let dig DEEPER with audio samples! appreciate you! :)
Glad you liked it!
The tiny contact surface on the Ball Barring acts as an Impedance mismatch between the 3 surfaces. It is the same with spikes or points at the bottom of speaker stands. Vibration is not transferred very well through the contact point. The issues i see with the ball barring is speaker movement. The cone moves forward, the speaker moves backwards on the balls. This 'vibration' may cause the speakers to sound a bit muddy or unclear, or it may just sound warmer depending on the listeners preference.
I can relate to your comment about cabinet sound. Since I discovered Dahlquest DQ10s 40+ years ago, the sound of Omnis, bipole/dipole/open baffles have always been very attractive.
Love your interactive listening videos. I wish more reviewers would do this.
I think the platimons are beautiful speakers, however when you did the comparison I preferred the sound of the second set of speakers.I found the second set of speakers to have a more natural, deeper sounding voice then the platimons. But I also prefer a more neutral sounding speaker. Keep up the good work.
AMTs are difficult to blend in with woofers, and are usually more successful when they are used in conjunction with a dedicated midrange driver. I suspect this 'disconnect' (which I also hear on the recording) is what is happening with the Platts.
Holy crap. It is a lot more noticeable then I would have expected to grab from a TH-cam video. On the platimon it completely sounds like to audio layers pieced together. 😊
Thanks, Ron for such an objective as poss. review. Highly enjoy your style of presentation (& sense of humour, too - dark is good... I'm Scottish). Heard these @ a show in Tokyo ... I know, shows aren't the best place to really be able to hear products properly - however, these speakers stood out above 99% of all other components. They just sounded stunning w/ Kraftwerk & some Lee Perry. Ron, you're *very* right about choosing them depending on your favoured musical tastes. They are excellent for slightly heavier music, or less-than-super hi-fi recordings in pretty much every way, electronic-based & dub. Thanks for reminding me about them. Thanks from Japan, (ex-Scotland).
(re; Isolation - There always trying out using 1" [25mm] wide strips cut from a sheet of thick sorbothane >> placing around perimeter of stand and 3 x 1" wide strips vertically].
Thanks for the insights Ron - always appreciate the honest guidance!
Thanks for watching the leaving a comment!
Brilliant sound clip demo. It's so difficult describing sound characteristics. I don't think I can imagine what the sound would be from your description, your sound clip demo nails it, it's just one cohesive whole, a more natural voice. Brilliant review.
Thanks man!
AMT tweeters are interesting. There is something novel (pleasing) but unnatural about them. And i think its the blend with the mid woofer that gives it up. They often "feel" disjointed at the handoff point. (Subjectively)
Affordable nitrile or EPDM rubber balls in various sizes are available in your hydraulics/water pump shop in various sizes. Might be more suitable than those steel balls.
That's exactly what I was thinking the first time I saw these speakers on another channel.
Nice review, I like the way you summarized the nuances. Subtle details can often be the key difference in how one connects emotionally to music.
Thanks!
Superb review. Thank you Ron!
Holy crapcicles NRD! You just became my favourite reviewer! More of these comparisons! I don’t care that we don’t know what the other speakers are as long as the differences are exemplified so that we get a deeper understanding. Great job!
Hey thanks!
I just saw this you posted 3 hours ago. I totally agree on the honesty portion of your pod cast. It helps your approach or reviews look at different prospectives.
Exemplary review Ron ⭐️💪🏻 That’s a lot of work but it’s much appreciated and very well done. Yes there’s more metallic twang on the Platimons as the name would suggest. But they also sound fuller with more presence. Great when I want to listen for a short time. The mystery speakers are more natural laid back and I’d think better for me for background or low volume listening.
Thanks 👍
Wow, the differences were palpable even listening on my ipad, tip top Ron, more honest reviews like this. Cant wait for the mystery speaker reveal, what a great tease.
Great opening disclaimer!! We should all keep this in mind not just in audio, but also in every aspect in life. Thanks 🍄
I hope we can get a tour/update video to changes you've made to the Sound Shed!
The side-by-side vocal comparison is interesting but i think the differences are simply the difference in overall response and room interactions. I'm not sure if the speaker you're comparing to is an open baffle, but vocals on an open baffle will reflect off the back wall, which involves the room more in the presentation, which adds a bit of "reverb" like effect that makes the vocalist sound more like they are "in the room." This might sound "good" but you could achieve the same with a reverb filter on traditional baffle speakers.
The mystery speakers are not open baffle.
What a fantastic review!! Thank you~
You are most welcome!
The vocals with the "other speaker" sounded more consistent and better in my opinion. But what was the other speaker? Decoupled PlatiMons? Honestly, those little ball bearings are not decouplers. They are a gimmick in my opinion. Anyway, thanks for the video. Very informative, as usual!
GR Research LGK 2.4
th-cam.com/video/QG-EG-AhRV8/w-d-xo.html
great explanation on distinction of bass timbre from 6:20 min on... most of 5-6,5 midwoofers have this problem... they can produce a decent mid-bass, or even a great mid bass punch... but a right - natural bass timbre is often a problem... equation = more midbass punch, less natural timbre, so less true high fidelity
Thanks for sharing. Before this video, I thought this speaker will definitely be one of my top shortlisted speaker when I am going to upgrade my speaker in the future.
I loved Mon Acoustic's smaller speakers. They were surprisingly so well-tuned and had so much performance in such a little package.
It would be fun to give them a listen.
Nice Job Ron! Great explanation and demos. Clearer upper mid and lower treble is quite noticeable with the "Mind Craft" towers.
I could really hear the difference in the vocal track in my IEM's, Second speakers had that silky high end and air to her voice
Ron, I too experienced that "weird" sound you heard. As you said, once you hear it, you can't un hear it. Thanks for pointing this out. You're the first reviewer that has identified this anomaly. Granted, it is subtle in the recorded soundtrack, but experiencing in person, I believe, this effect you speak about will be more noticeable.
Whow, how straight 👍💯
Thanks for the great review 🎉
Once Danny gets you to his reference open baffle designs, it's all over. Reviews take on a whole new dimension. A level of critical you were not aware of (was necessary) prior to Danny.
The glowing reviews talking about unheard of levels of transparency etc. etc. Thanks for interjecting reality into this conversation.
This is what blows my mind, reading through the comments at least 3 people preferred the Platimons, said they sounded clearer and more natural.
So why is it that i heard the exact opposite (through my cheap soundcore Bluetooth headphones) and didn’t really have to try, i mean it was very obvious that the mystery speakers sounded a lot better.
I just can't understand how anyone could prefer the Platimons, do people prefer bad sound?
Do we all hear things differently?
With some things you'd think it would be easy to get a consensus, sometimes its so obvious which is better, but whenever i listen to these comparison videos there's never a consensus, in fact there's always a larger percentage of people than expected who say the exact opposite of what the majority are saying and hearing.
Is it their gear isnt up to scratch?
Is it that they don't know what good sound sounds like?
Im always left baffled.
I swear i could mount a $3 speaker into a shoebox and run a 128 mp3 file through it and record it on a nokia from 2001 in an ampty tiled staircase and 12% of people would prefer it over this mystery speaker. 🤯
That’s because it could be just one aspect of the speakers, or one song(or a recording), or could be just the characteristic of each speaker. As Ron mentioned, it’s not about right or wrong. He said he is not a fan of AMT tweeter. So that explains it.
People do hear differently especially with age, but it can come down to the gear they're using to listen back to the audio, as well as their own preferences. Some people prefer a warmer or more relaxed sound, while others will prefer a more forward or exciting sound. Which to the first group, will likely come off as bright or even harsh. I'm particularly sensitive to the 1-3Khz range so I probably wouldn't enjoy the Platimon speakers much.
Interesting, I do prefer the vocal body of the Platimons, but I can't deny that the mystery speaker presented a more natural, honest depiction of that sound clip.
I consider the Platimons affordable end-game standmounts when compared to speakers way above it's price, but that mystery speaker has peaked my interest too much.
Ron, you're a tease 😂
Ron, for what is worth I found the Platimons sounding as though her voice had been double tracked from two different mics and not as cohesive as a single voice across her range. I will listen to her voice on my Audiovectors, which have tweeters you seem not to like.
The wonky levels you took this review to is appreciated . You could’ve easily just said they’re hyped up in the hi mids and been done with it. Those clips showcase exactly what you were calling attention to . A useful TH-cam soundclip is almost impossible and you beat the odds with this one. I know some audiophiles who would choose those speakers for that exaggerated response.
Found this video late. Now I need to find this mystery speaker.
great comparison & clear up the hype
Good review man. Just to confirm, yes, I could hear a problem with the female vocal. Was like hearing a bass and treble speaker seperated. But your "B" mystery speaker sounded very natural. Good call. And I heard this on cheap reference two way speakers, tube preamp, class D amp. I Guess Elac by AJ ain't so bad after all 😊. Thanks.
I came to revisit this video after the glowing review IIWI recently gave to these Platimons. Thanks Ron for the careful work and sound clips. The way the mystery speakers reproduce voices is what I'm looking for and I've been looking for years. What are the mystery speakers used in the sound clips? I tried to find it in your more recent reviews but it doesn't seem to be there. Thanks.
You know what I'd like and have never seen? A reviewer who breaks down the build quality and components used inside the speaker. What components do they use internally? What gauge of wire? How much do the parts cost?
The Platimons sound like they have a mild but clearly audible cavity resonance, similar to what would result from bringing an empty drinking glass into the nearfield during the recording. Given two ports and a high crossover point, could be woofer backwave resonating within and emerging from one or both ports. I imagine it's quite noticeable on legato piano runs.
Hey Ron, I can go on and articulate about the sound of these speakers, but I won't. What I can say is the sound you're hearing is mainly the aluminum cabinets. They are exaggerating the midrange around 600 to 1khz. I can hear the echoes in the mix profoundly. Which is very distracting. I commend you on your very fine work...
Synergy, synergy, synergy. Different equipment often leads to different impressions. Source, amplification, connecting cables, purity of power supplied, all can affect what we hear and we all hear slightly differently. Plus the particular choices we make in the music played. Example: years ago my brother and I were camping watching a sunset and he said, man look at those purples! Puzzled, I said what purples?
What brand of speaker cable risers are you using? Im having issues with the imagining on my speakers and thing my cables are not lifted correctly off the floor.
The Platimons have that tink-a-tink sound character I almost always hear from an AMT tweeter. They do seem to be more resolving and less "dead" than the second pair of speakers, but I see the point about more body and connecting the dots better with the 2nd pair. Of course, this is via TH-cam and headphones, so not the best conduit.
I did not hear it as clear as I did after you played the mystery speaker. When I heard the Platimons the second time around, though, my first thought was how someone would sing if they had a mouthguard in their mouth that stopped nightly teeth grinding. To me, the mystery speaker presents her vocals more naturally and pleasing to my ears. Can't wait for you to unveil those.
Thanks! I think we are hearing the same thing. I agree that the mystery speaker did a great job at portraying her vocals and building that bridge from her chest voice up to the upper harmonics. Appreciate the comment!
Nothing in this price range as the platimons, this is what I experienced between the Emotiva T-Zero+ vs CSS 1TDX. The T0+ was actually more detailed and had a wider soundstage than the 1TDX, but portions of the music felt disconnected. 1TDX gave me a more holistic experience even at the expense of ultimate detail and airiness. AMT tweeters are very impressive for dialog and detail but I think the speed mismatch between them and the woofer, I think, becomes apparent.
The sound on the mystery speakers sounded much more reverberant, perhaps contributing to the sense of fullness in the vocals. I wonder how the Platimons might benefit from less decoupling, and more coupling.
The ball bearings ARE coupling.... Think about the wheels on your car ... Ball bearings, supporting all weight. Staying on the road.
Very well thought out and descriptive review! Edit: the Platimons sounded very good, but the voice in the other speakers sounded more "together" somehow? More unified, less grainy (not a good descriptor), less etched and more natural? I don't know how to describe it.
Is this a common characteristic of AMT ? I have Elac UB52 at my desk with Emotiva B1+ stacked upside down on top of them.
I always noticed an "etherical" effect on the high frequencies on the AMT's
I am now wondering if the Ribbon emission will have that effect on the highs as the surface area is not a uniform dome. I can also understand how some of this may lend to a perception that the stage is more open with crisp highs distributing all over the place.
Could the less natural render itself as more desirable ?
The Other speaker B I will guess was silk dome. The vocals seemed to involve the room more.
Hello teacher! how are you? I'm just starting out in the audiophile world and I need some recommendations if you don't mind. I have a medium 15M2 living room. And among the amplifiers that I saw and can access as a mortal are the Marantz pm6007, Yamaha s301 and the Nad316BEE V2 and speakers like the Klipsch RP500 MKII, Wharfedale Diamond 12.2 and Sony SSCS5. What combinations can you recommend if you are so kind? greetings from Argentina!
Difference between the 2 speakers was obvious on my Ollo S4x headphones. The voice sounded better, more open, less nasal on the anonymous speakers.
paused at 21.45 (Sennheiser 650). Ok so my best description is the first one emphasises the echo and the second clearers most of the echo out of the way. The second is more focused on her where as the first is concentrating on delivering that chamber sound.
Listen to the music first, echo shouldn’t be removed.
Does the Platimon also have a 100Hz bump? Is this a classic Batman speaker 100/1k/10k? Apparently people like this type of sound
I couldn't tell if what I heard was reverb from the room in which the track was recorded which the Plantations highlighted more that the other speaker, or if it was speaker box sound. I can't say I like one more than the other, just that there was a difference.
I wish I could ask the speakers if I'm the one for them. These days everything has to be consensual.
That made me laugh.
What if my beloved possession feels different than me but I keep moving them around. Who would like that??
Open the lid and let your speakers find their happy place on their own.
Wow even listening on my iPad Pro speakers the sonic difference between those two speakers is blaringly obvious. That’s crazy!
Thanks Brent!
@@Newrecordday2013 You should have been a recording engineer. You would have been one of the best I think.
@BrentLeVasseur ah man! Thanks!
@@Newrecordday2013 I don’t know if that was your plan with the “sound shed” channel, but it could be used for you delving into recording local artists. Was that your plan?
@BrentLeVasseur yup
Your measurements show 'head in a vice' placing as opposed to as speaker that is well designed ( Genelec 8361) which disqualifies the Platimons for me.
Probably the best Hi-Fi speaker review I’ve seen on TH-cam 👍
I have questions about the metal balls the speaker rests on. If driver firing causes the speaker to wobble back, it seem like it would compromise the sound wave. Sort of like if you were trying to jump across something, would you rather jump from something wobbly or a rock?
The other analogy with the speaker wobbling around on the aluminum balls that came to mind is its like sex on a waterbed
The ball bearing does not make the speaker wobble at all. Just because you see someone pushing and makes it wobble doesn’t mean those heavy cabinet speakers move on the ball bearing. You should look up for ball bearing isolation technology.
Try the book Vibration and shock handbook” by Clarence W de Silva.
A system that can oscillate (like a speaker on a stand with a ball bearing decoupling mechanism) has a characteristic frequency at which it naturally vibrates, known as the natural frequency. This is determined by the mass of the object and the stiffness of the springs (or in this case, the effective stiffness of the ball bearings).
Balls act as mediums of transmitting.
The effectiveness of the ball bearing decoupling mechanism would be evaluated based on the system’s ability to minimize transmissibility, especially around the resonant frequency.
@@newdevilman1167 Of course the speaker moves on the ball bearing. It it didn't the ball wouldn't be effective. That's what the ball bearing is there for. Which is great for isolating from external forces, which is what the 1500 page textbook you recommended talks about. This design is great for decoupling components (dacs amps etc). Not so great when you are trying to maximize the internal forces the speaker is generating.
@@WhiteBubblySoup I am talking about the visible wobbliness you mentioned earlier. I thought your comment could mislead others as this kind of ball bearing movement is minimal and contained. :)
@@newdevilman1167 I said nothing about visible wobbling, but ok sure
Did I miss the following: Who Platimon is, where they are made, what the cost is, perspective photos of the speakers, where they are sold. I listened for 10 minutes, pretty sure there was none of that info. This is a troubling (for me) aspect of modern "journalism", i.e., not giving pertinent info up front, often never getting to it at all.
That being said, the review of how they sound is excellent.
That’s good feedback, thanks
Ok Thanks!!! @ one point I was strongly considering launching a Channel but you are among the few balancing [truth=time-efforts/facts] equation
Also your observations about AMTs are why I've not completed the speaker I built with Planars for the mids
Thanks man!
Ron, I congratulate you, big time, thank you so much... M
Well thank you!
I'm commenting before the end of the video, while the question is fresh in my mind. Why do you have two separate mics placed at on axis near field instead of recording the speaker playback from the listening position with a single stereo mic to emulate what the listener may hear? Personally in all my years of speaker building and listening, I've never found near field listening or testing to be representative of the speaker system as a whole. I pretty much just use it for pinpointing anomalies, but it's rare that the sound up close is anything like several feet or yards away. Maybe it's just me and my old timer approach where we used more subjective listening and trial and error and less measurements to assess speakers? Thanks for the great reviews. Maybe someday you would be interested in reviewing a restomod? I can send a pair or two if you're interested and don't worry I have thicker skin and look more for valuable feedback and objective results to make me a better builder and listener... Unlike eh... That dude that makes the baby blue speakers and whines at reviewers. Hey if my speakers suck it's constructive criticism and I'll work on that... If they rock-out in the bang for the buck department though, any confirmation is greatly appreciated and helps me figure out if I'm on the right path.
While I can appreciate such in depth reviews, as a 50 year audio head, I would not want to be tortured or haunted by such overly analytical awareness. It's a lot to go through, just to listen to music, not to mention dealing with just the not-so-subtle differences from one recording to the next.
AMTs are just superfluous to me, personally. I'm still in awe with the performance of some soft domes that I own, some of which, are not very expensive and 2 decades on by now. This is one area of the frequency range that was not broken, as far as I am concerned, which manages to put these types of innovations in the category of novelties.
$6k for a pair of stand mount speakers? Just not necessary. It's unfortunate that these boutique type products have managed to somewhat normalize these costs, for what they deliver. I have a pair of $600 speakers from around Y2k I still use every day, that I would not trade for these.
The more expensive speakers have a push towards PA speaker vibes in hardening the vocal due to those mild frequency boosts in the upper mids giving that hard push to it. I like the mystery speaker more. I like the more integrated natural sounding vocal.
What were the other speakers used? Sounded much better with the vocals.
very interesting, thank you.
I heard treble extension on the mystery speakers, giving more air and an 'unveiled' presentation.
Feels like a phase and level match issue that makes part of her vocals a little more forward. Crossover/driver thing probably as the cabinets probably aren't going to be continuing to resonance there. Probably sounds good with metal music! Maybe a bit fatiguing.
Expert level review.
The unknown speaker has a lightness to the vocal and it sounds beautiful, has an effortlessness.
The platimon sounds more grindy.
I had a similar experience with the KEF LS50. I could not comprehend why people liked those so much. I thought it was such a strange sounding speaker.
I hear it as a timber difference, but also a tonal difference, where something is sucked out there in the middle causing the voice to seem more honky, nasal and detached - less cohesive, less organic, less natural and more synthetic. Not my cup for sure - I prefer the mystery speaker by quite a margin - more cohesive, open, full, natural.
Nice setup
What passive speaker(s) that have bass do you like best around $2000? Philharmonic BMR? HECO Celan R3? Wharfdale Linton 85th? Buchardt S400 MKII?
your frame is constantly moving back and forth. btw did you check the right and left position of the pair?
Yes.
These speakers are so inert! They seem to be very imaging focused. I noticed that some of the reviewers that enjoyed the platimons the most used tube amps. Jay at one point used a tube amp as well as a r2r dac, likely adding a more pleasing decay structure with emphasized “air” and soundstage.
Great channel! I like your nerd-like, detailed approach to the topics. Who else has his own sound-shed to dive into some audiophile mania! :-) subscribed
Would like to see those decouplers being "heard" and identified in a blind test.
Ron thanks for your honest review. I have to ask. Looks like in the background you lift the speaker cables off the floor. Do you notice a sound difference with the cables off the floor?
Every time, the sound is better with cables ON the floor ... Ouch.
Whatever the other speakers are I am thinking I want to hear those.