Awesome. Thank you for including experiments with medium demolishers. I was debating whether I'd have to import nukes (or their ingredients rather) over to deal with them. Discharge defense seems much more economical!
While possible, i'd only consider this if i really needed the territory of the medium demolishers before i go to aquilo. After you've been there and unlocked railguns, demolishers of all sizes becomes a joke.
@@MarkMichon7 @428Lenny I can confirm, in my default settings game, Lv 6 "Stronger Explosives" (+180% dmg, Lv 7 requires Gleba), 1 normal nuke consistently killed small demolishers when fired directly at their face. 2-3 nukes were required for a medium demolisher, also to the face. I'm at lv 6 now and I believe I was at the time when I went demolisher hunting but nukes may still be effective at lower tech levels. Have not tried with a big demolisher.
This was my preferred way to deal with mediums. Smalls can be trivially taken care of by a tank cannon (don't need uranium, regular ammo's just fine so the entire thing requires no importing, but if you want you can import a tank and its full equipment grid for 1 rocket). As a tip, you can aggro it at the other end. It takes some time for it to turn around. Doubly so if it needs to turn the wrong way, so try to get on the "outside" of whatever turn it's doing. There's a good chance you kill it before a single geyser fires.
I love seeing damage number calculations like this, thanks for doing the math! Discharge defense is definitely underrated, especially because it's very low-cost. I haven't done the math, but if I'm on Vulcanus before I have mech armour, I have had a lot of success with a tank+cannon shells. The trick is just to start shooting from behind the demolisher, they are very slow to turn around and you want to pierce as many segments as possible. The material/logistics cost is higher, but IMO the main advantage is that I want lots of physical projectile damage research anyway, for spaceship gun turrets. For medium worms and beyond, it helps to have a higher quality tank, since the extra shooting speed offsets the health regen of the demolishers. Might have to give discharge defense a try though, seems simple and effective once you have electromagnetic science!
@AVADIIStrategy How about quality power armor? Every extra quality level gives +1 row/column of grid space so rares should be able to fit a whole another row and column of 2x2 grid items. And rare is accessible with just Nauvis tech. (Uncommon Modular Armor is actually giga huge cus you can put a Fission Reactor in and still have usable space as a result.)
@@Jackpkmn Agree, but my impression is that there are a lot of players who don't want to mess with the quality mechanic (until later). Which is why I'm not relying on quality in these early game strategy videos.
@@JackpkmnQuality is an investment and very concious step. I think this video aims for an low efford idea not so far into the game. So basically an alternative to the 40+ red ammo turrets usually seen here. And since this is doable by just having a dedicated armor load this is way easier than turret or tank, it seems.
@AVADIIStrategy I think its worth at least mentioning quality if you can hit a major break point early even if the video doesn't get any focus on quality (like the mentioned Modular Armor one.)
Non-explosive canon shells still seem like an easier solution to me. More range = more safety. They don't scale to big demolishers, but being able to wipe out small and mediums with technology you already very much want for your space platform seems ideal. Big demolishers seem tuned for rail gun damage either way.
Seems like combining poison capsules and discharge defenses might be a good combo. Poison would serve to more or less nullify their health regen while the discharge defenses whittle down their health.
I never considered discharge defences! I found that a tank with normal tank shells (*not* explosive shells) was also really effective. I don't remember what my Physical Project damage research level was but it was probably around level 8 or so.
I knew about the somewhat niche usage of the discharge defense on demolisher but never used it since I assumed it would take quite a long time But well.. who would have thought about all those multiple demolisher personalities being attacked at the same time.. this is convenient
I've saved my vulcanus expansion to after i got the railgun. Its really funny how the worms disappear in 1-2 shots! But discharge could also work for early game.
I think they can only be dealt with railgun or nukes since there's no weapon in the game that have dps high enough to kill it without a lot of research
@@KFishproductionII I guess killing my first big demo was easy with turret spam and uranium ammo because I wasn't on death world settings? Or maybe using 100 turrets at once is actually just enough to do the job with minimal losses. I have too much uranium stockpiled that I just have no need for so I turn it into bullets because why not. I don't use nuke power. I'm an idiot. Should just grab a blueprint from a smart person lol
Let's face it, there are not that many small demolishers. They are easy to kill with turrets long before you get this tech. For mediums, now that starts to become a pretty good idea.
uranium canon shell tank can kill small demolishers very easily, as for medium ones you will need a bit of research if you want easy kills. like projectile dmg lvl 12 or 13 . as for big ones, that should become possible with at least lvl 17 but preferably you would want more. @edit: i attempted it, but at level 17 while it is theoretically possible i was not able to kill a big demolisher. i only manage to do it at 18, thou i used normal cannon shells, even using uncommon would help a lot.
You can have resistance against ammo, explosions, lasers, anything. But no one is resistant against NUKE. So dont forget to have some in your ship when u are heading vulcanus
They lack the inherent X10 multiplier of the discharge defense from multi hitting - but they have higher base damage. They are very good when combined with discharge, because you actually scale both with the same research.
What about taking this to the limit? Legendary discharge defense has 50% more range, which should translate to 50% more demolisher segments hit. A legendary mech armour should fit 37 discharge defense, and five portable fusion reactors to power them continuously. Then just set up an autoclicker to spam out those 37 shots as fast as the game can register inputs. Assuming 37x15=555 hits, you should need about 700 raw discharge defense damage to be able to one-cycle a big demolisher with this setup.
Cool video, discharge definitely isn't OP though. Much easier with a tank firing Uranium Cannon Shells, especially early on. Small worms pop real quick
I never used discharge defense, cause i thought defense. My first demoliui sher i killed with poison capsules and some distracted turrets. I will try discharge defense with some upgrades nedtt time . Thx
Yeah, this uranium ammo is so much better. I had a few upgrades and a bunch of turrets like 50 with 10 ammo each. It melts even the bigg wurms in seconds, didn't even use 5% of the ammo
Sadly a few turrets outdoes this, is far safer, and available without visiting/importing from other planets. They can even do all 3 types of worms (with enough turrets lol) Cool solution though. I need to use this tech more often.
Still, the discharge protection is not overpowered. Well, not even a good choice. At the moment, I have 11 level of damage from firearms. A tank with rare uranium shells kills a small worm in 3 shots, or in 6 regular uranium shells, or in ~12 regular non-uranium ones. All this from a safe distance and with little effort. There is still enough power for a medium worm - about 15 rare uranium shells. You can reach 11 damage level with a small space platform and a more or less good base, you do not need to visit other planets for this. The tank can be assembled directly on Vulcanus, shells - 25 per 1 rocket launch, quite enough to clear the initial territory. What about discharge... it's «ammo-free»?..
Tried turrets. No dice. Tesla gun barely ticked his HP. Laser defense does nothing, of course. Same with flamethrower. But ten discharge defenses and kiting? Less than 60 second fight.
Killing almost everything by making an Excel calculation first = Proved. Mech Armor consists of 20 Discharge Defenses. Are you telling us, you have defeated this thing by using an ordinary Tesla Trooper ôO Poor Wormy. What a dishonorable ^^ Discharge... I was planning on the good old Tiger Tank spamming Uranium Shells, but I think, I'll stick with the Tesla Trooper. Yuri would like.
I think I download too many mods and small demolisher now have 300.000 hp and 24.000 hp/s regeneration instead of 30.000 hp... Well my friend sometimes hate me😂 Oh... And yeah... Have a mod for behemoth demolisher + rarity... So theoretically... It can have 30.000.000 hp😅 if I remember correctly
I mean it is feasible but shipping uranium and using a tank to kill it still seems much easier. If you do go for discharge defence biter killing on nauvis - maybe you would do this BUT since you're likely to research projectile damage for space travel tanks just do better anyway.
Awesome. Thank you for including experiments with medium demolishers. I was debating whether I'd have to import nukes (or their ingredients rather) over to deal with them. Discharge defense seems much more economical!
i think nukes dont work against demolishers, at least for me it didnt.
@@428Lenny I haven't tried yet, but someone else said nukes will one-shot small and mediums if you aim at their head. Large requires multiple.
While possible, i'd only consider this if i really needed the territory of the medium demolishers before i go to aquilo. After you've been there and unlocked railguns, demolishers of all sizes becomes a joke.
@@MrLancar Yep which I am. I fell down the quality rabbit hole and am upgrading my beacons/machines/modules/ships to rare and epic before Aquilo.
@@MarkMichon7 @428Lenny I can confirm, in my default settings game, Lv 6 "Stronger Explosives" (+180% dmg, Lv 7 requires Gleba), 1 normal nuke consistently killed small demolishers when fired directly at their face. 2-3 nukes were required for a medium demolisher, also to the face. I'm at lv 6 now and I believe I was at the time when I went demolisher hunting but nukes may still be effective at lower tech levels. Have not tried with a big demolisher.
Definitely sold on the discharge defense dude. I hope you're ready for this channel to blow up, your content is premium.
This was my preferred way to deal with mediums. Smalls can be trivially taken care of by a tank cannon (don't need uranium, regular ammo's just fine so the entire thing requires no importing, but if you want you can import a tank and its full equipment grid for 1 rocket). As a tip, you can aggro it at the other end. It takes some time for it to turn around. Doubly so if it needs to turn the wrong way, so try to get on the "outside" of whatever turn it's doing. There's a good chance you kill it before a single geyser fires.
Great test! Hard to believe content this high-quality isn't getting more attention, definitely subbed now
I love seeing damage number calculations like this, thanks for doing the math! Discharge defense is definitely underrated, especially because it's very low-cost.
I haven't done the math, but if I'm on Vulcanus before I have mech armour, I have had a lot of success with a tank+cannon shells. The trick is just to start shooting from behind the demolisher, they are very slow to turn around and you want to pierce as many segments as possible. The material/logistics cost is higher, but IMO the main advantage is that I want lots of physical projectile damage research anyway, for spaceship gun turrets. For medium worms and beyond, it helps to have a higher quality tank, since the extra shooting speed offsets the health regen of the demolishers.
Might have to give discharge defense a try though, seems simple and effective once you have electromagnetic science!
Wouldn’t higher quality Discharge Defenses improve the damage against Demolishers because increased range allows more segments to be hit on average?
Yes! But the range bonus is kinda low and not worth the effort tbh.
Getting an additional level of damage research is better.
@AVADIIStrategy How about quality power armor? Every extra quality level gives +1 row/column of grid space so rares should be able to fit a whole another row and column of 2x2 grid items. And rare is accessible with just Nauvis tech. (Uncommon Modular Armor is actually giga huge cus you can put a Fission Reactor in and still have usable space as a result.)
@@Jackpkmn Agree, but my impression is that there are a lot of players who don't want to mess with the quality mechanic (until later). Which is why I'm not relying on quality in these early game strategy videos.
@@JackpkmnQuality is an investment and very concious step. I think this video aims for an low efford idea not so far into the game.
So basically an alternative to the 40+ red ammo turrets usually seen here.
And since this is doable by just having a dedicated armor load this is way easier than turret or tank, it seems.
@AVADIIStrategy I think its worth at least mentioning quality if you can hit a major break point early even if the video doesn't get any focus on quality (like the mentioned Modular Armor one.)
Non-explosive canon shells still seem like an easier solution to me. More range = more safety. They don't scale to big demolishers, but being able to wipe out small and mediums with technology you already very much want for your space platform seems ideal. Big demolishers seem tuned for rail gun damage either way.
Finally, a use for discharge defenses!
Seems like combining poison capsules and discharge defenses might be a good combo. Poison would serve to more or less nullify their health regen while the discharge defenses whittle down their health.
I never considered discharge defences! I found that a tank with normal tank shells (*not* explosive shells) was also really effective. I don't remember what my Physical Project damage research level was but it was probably around level 8 or so.
I knew about the somewhat niche usage of the discharge defense on demolisher but never used it since I assumed it would take quite a long time
But well.. who would have thought about all those multiple demolisher personalities being attacked at the same time.. this is convenient
i love your dedication to science.
This is just what happens to the eater of worlds when you use a piercing weapon
I'm waiting for your vid on mastering Aquillo
on my playthrough, I decided to just import uranium from nauvis, and use nukes, worked like a charm
I was waiting this video, great work
One note: 0:33 - 10% < 20/20%... I think we need a comparison with poison. :)
Otherwise, fascinating... may have to try this! Thanks!
Late game, it's hard to beat a railgun skewer. But this is a nice alternative to poison stacking, suicide turrets, tank driving, and spidertron swarm.
It can be a complement to tank driving, actually. Saves a couple shots to increase the number of zones you can clear.
legendary railgun ammo.
simple, effective
I've saved my vulcanus expansion to after i got the railgun. Its really funny how the worms disappear in 1-2 shots! But discharge could also work for early game.
Railguns are the way to got; still I am impressed by your video.
Thanks for your experiment
Good test. I’ll stick to my physical ammo and red ammo turrets for mediums and smalls though
hell yeah this looks great
what about big demolishers tho
I think they can only be dealt with railgun or nukes since there's no weapon in the game that have dps high enough to kill it without a lot of research
If you have to deal with big demolishers you're most likely in the ultra late game trying to megabase Vulcanus. In this case: Railgun for sure!
@AVADIIStrategy Might be cuz im using deathworld settings cuz I am seeing them very early
@@KFishproductionII I guess killing my first big demo was easy with turret spam and uranium ammo because I wasn't on death world settings?
Or maybe using 100 turrets at once is actually just enough to do the job with minimal losses.
I have too much uranium stockpiled that I just have no need for so I turn it into bullets because why not. I don't use nuke power. I'm an idiot. Should just grab a blueprint from a smart person lol
@AVADIIStrategy ok, now it is a matter of challenge to kill it with discharge defence.
Let's face it, there are not that many small demolishers. They are easy to kill with turrets long before you get this tech.
For mediums, now that starts to become a pretty good idea.
could you do a video testing the efficacy of tanks on demolishers? thank you
uranium canon shell tank can kill small demolishers very easily, as for medium ones you will need a bit of research if you want easy kills. like projectile dmg lvl 12 or 13 . as for big ones, that should become possible with at least lvl 17 but preferably you would want more.
@edit: i attempted it, but at level 17 while it is theoretically possible i was not able to kill a big demolisher. i only manage to do it at 18, thou i used normal cannon shells, even using uncommon would help a lot.
Is it possible to stack discharge defenses with both the character and tank's inventory? Or would only one set fire at once?
You can have resistance against ammo, explosions, lasers, anything. But no one is resistant against NUKE. So dont forget to have some in your ship when u are heading vulcanus
Until you realise nukes are too heavy to fly into orbit and it's not worth it to fly up the parts
Guess I've been sleeping on the discharge long enough
Just spamming turrets seems way easier.
What about electro robots? Are theu good against worms?
They lack the inherent X10 multiplier of the discharge defense from multi hitting - but they have higher base damage. They are very good when combined with discharge, because you actually scale both with the same research.
Another great video thanks avadii!
What about taking this to the limit? Legendary discharge defense has 50% more range, which should translate to 50% more demolisher segments hit. A legendary mech armour should fit 37 discharge defense, and five portable fusion reactors to power them continuously. Then just set up an autoclicker to spam out those 37 shots as fast as the game can register inputs.
Assuming 37x15=555 hits, you should need about 700 raw discharge defense damage to be able to one-cycle a big demolisher with this setup.
Thats cool but I think I will still go with uranium shells in a tank. It seems a lot easier and less dangerous.
man genious thanks. let test
Cool video, discharge definitely isn't OP though. Much easier with a tank firing Uranium Cannon Shells, especially early on. Small worms pop real quick
I never used discharge defense, cause i thought defense. My first demoliui sher i killed with poison capsules and some distracted turrets. I will try discharge defense with some upgrades nedtt time . Thx
What about large?
I ended up using 20 turrets with uranium ammo, mainly cause i have way more u-235 than i can ever go through without dumping a bunch into ammo haha
Yeah, this uranium ammo is so much better. I had a few upgrades and a bunch of turrets like 50 with 10 ammo each. It melts even the bigg wurms in seconds, didn't even use 5% of the ammo
It's all about non-explosive tank rounds
Sadly a few turrets outdoes this, is far safer, and available without visiting/importing from other planets.
They can even do all 3 types of worms (with enough turrets lol)
Cool solution though. I need to use this tech more often.
I kind of want to see how quality affects this.
I used artillery and turret swarms with uranium ammo.
Next playthrough I'll do this instead
Still, the discharge protection is not overpowered. Well, not even a good choice.
At the moment, I have 11 level of damage from firearms. A tank with rare uranium shells kills a small worm in 3 shots, or in 6 regular uranium shells, or in ~12 regular non-uranium ones. All this from a safe distance and with little effort. There is still enough power for a medium worm - about 15 rare uranium shells.
You can reach 11 damage level with a small space platform and a more or less good base, you do not need to visit other planets for this. The tank can be assembled directly on Vulcanus, shells - 25 per 1 rocket launch, quite enough to clear the initial territory.
What about discharge... it's «ammo-free»?..
Discharge defense is overpowered
no need to add anything :D
I did it with tonk.
But discharge is definitely cheaper.
This is so german :) dankeschön für das Video.
How do ypu activate the weapon?
Discharge defence remote in the hotbar. Shortcut in my version is ALT+Z
Cool, but I'ma still use artillery just cuz it's so fun to use
To that one guy I saw asking how to do this: Here ya go 😆👍
I knew it was just "put more in armor, then click a lot"
I defeated my first worm with gun turrets.
I defeated other small worms with salvos of ~6 artillery shells. The heads are their weak point.
5:41 You actually *can* damage more than 11 segments
And artillery? Make a comparison 2 ^^
Tried turrets. No dice.
Tesla gun barely ticked his HP.
Laser defense does nothing, of course. Same with flamethrower.
But ten discharge defenses and kiting? Less than 60 second fight.
Turrets did not work?
How I melted big wurms with just turret spam. Don't even need that many. 50 is overkill xD uranium ammo makes it even easier
Im waiting for full legendary insta kill on big demolishers xD
Killing almost everything by making an Excel calculation first = Proved.
Mech Armor consists of 20 Discharge Defenses. Are you telling us, you have defeated this thing by using an ordinary Tesla Trooper ôO
Poor Wormy. What a dishonorable ^^ Discharge...
I was planning on the good old Tiger Tank spamming Uranium Shells, but I think, I'll stick with the Tesla Trooper. Yuri would like.
Am I... Am I first?
You are!
@AVADIIStrategy Awesome vid, as always :D
Sanks buy!
I think I download too many mods and small demolisher now have 300.000 hp and 24.000 hp/s regeneration instead of 30.000 hp...
Well my friend sometimes hate me😂
Oh... And yeah... Have a mod for behemoth demolisher + rarity... So theoretically... It can have 30.000.000 hp😅 if I remember correctly
If LEGENDARY defense then what?
I don't care who the IRS sends, I am not using discharge defense..
Dieser deutschsprachige Akzent ^^
Discharge offence lol
Not on great demolisher
Railgun oneshots smaill and medium demolishers from face to face
i heard Chernobyl solution is much better: th-cam.com/video/9eh49O4IUZE/w-d-xo.html
I mean it is feasible but shipping uranium and using a tank to kill it still seems much easier.
If you do go for discharge defence biter killing on nauvis - maybe you would do this BUT since you're likely to research projectile damage for space travel tanks just do better anyway.
Wat is mit Teslawaffen?
Just like with poison capsules, you need to abuse curves.