The thing I am struggling with the most is the difference between literature and permanent notes. Zettelkasten is a great method, but also really abstract with so few good tutorials on it because it isn't widely known. At least your explanations of it are good @martin adams.
The way I understand it is that "Literature notes" are basically all source pieces of information you collect while consuming articles, videos, books. And the "Permanent Notes" are your own ideas or informations that are not tied to a source? I guess? I just learned about the method 1h ago :]
@@krug123 Neither are correct. I just recently figured it out. There are no literature notes, only bibliography notes which are small references to ideas sort of an index of the source with pieces you found interesting. And permanent notes which was where Luhmann would write down his thoughts, or observations on a matter with a clear reference to the source, but he would also at times just quote something, sometimes with an explanation. Those are called excerpt notes. I recommend looking up Scott. P. Scheper. He has extremely good information on the Zettelkasten and how Luhmann intended it. He's very analog but you can replicate in Obsidian which is what I'm doing.
@@productivity6693 No. Literature notes are notes taken on stuff you read from books, articles, etc. When Luhrman created the system it was mainly books and articles (no internet), hence why its was named "literature" notes. This is stored in the reference section with the bibliography.
I've listened to multiple video all talking about this method but it's all nice an theoretical. Show me a real life example of this in an actual class then after the class.
The biggest problem for me is "finding the time" to turn my fleeting notes into literature notes, though I know that's one of the most important parts of the whole system.
Couldn't agree more. It's a lot of hard work. Part of the challenge is whether you really love the subject, or if it's something you have to learn to get through the syllabus. In that case, maybe it's best to pick your battles, and be honest at which areas are a) the most beneficial to the method, and b) have the biggest impact on your grades.
@@Martin_Adams I don't really understand how a fleeting note turns into a literature note. I mean, they are different, not part of a transition. Fleeting notes are quick capture of thoughts or information that will vanish, of course in your own words. Literature notes on the other hand, are notes taken on a planned session, also using your own words. So how it's supposed to turn one into another ? BTW, if both are atomic, what's the difference really ? I believe the only difference is the source (ie: 'a book' vs 'my own thinking')
Still don't have an answer on how to deal with 1 or 1,5-hour lectures. I'm new in some humanities field and start study which requires attending extensive lectures full of knowledge. I know making notes in your own words and with complete comprehension is a skill we need to develop, but still, it's tough. Nobody is gonna wait for you because you need to think and make your superbly useful zkst notes. Any ideas? Experience?
Great question. So you’re not going to be able to do that in the lecture itself. You want to capture the best you can what relevant, and remove the repetition, etc. This is like highlighting in a book. If the lecturer is going too quick, then you might decide to base it off the slides, and focus on capturing pointers to which slide is about what. What is critical though, the real work happens outside of the lecture. That’s where to digest the information and write your proper notes for studying, essays and revision. This of course is theoretical as it has been a long time since I was at university. But I have used it for online courses where I capture the most useful information during the video, then process and make the smart nodes after.
A long thought on lecture notes from my dyslexic view point. In the end a question on notes from audiobooks. As a dyslexic, in my university studies I used photos a lot in my note taking. Often trying to connect them in the paper in pages strait a way or noting to which photo in the series I was writing about. So I didn't need to write both the teachers words and my quick notes at the same time. I'm really new (almost all of a week) in to my knowledge of the Zattelkasten system. So can't talk to much to that. But I definitely would skip writing as much as possible in the classroom more focus on my fleeting notes and to what slide or graph or text the lecturer/ professor are writing so I can connect it easier later. Still can say this. I dropped out of my studies just before my bachelor degree because of life and my inability to keep up. For me finding the Zettelkasten system gives me hope that I actually will be able to comeback and finish my degree and keep going as far as I want in my studies. As a dyslexic you usually have come to your own systems of how to study. Do not stop doing what works use Zattelkasten to help you to keep track and compliment, help fill the gaps not having to read everything over and over to get your notes functional. Just a spontaneously thought. I do have a question how do you take notes from your audiobook? As a dyslexic I use audiobooks in a huge degree but quite often have trouble with taking note, and more trouble with taking notes in an academic way with full citation. So if you have tip on that I would be extremely grateful.
Thank you for your insight. I like to think that the Zettelkasten can be used in many ways, such as if you prefer diagrams, photos, etc. It's about keeping things short and light but connecting ideas to build up the bigger picture. Audiobook note taking is a hard one. I use Audible and tried bookmarking sections, but could never quite find the bit to go back to. I have used the Bear app on my phone to make quick text notes. Maybe pause the book and make voice notes. As you say, getting the references can be hard, so maybe the bookmark feature could help. An alternative if you use Kindle and Audible (although not the cheapest), is to get the Kindle version of the book also. Then you can actually listen to the audio book as it reads along in the Kindle app. Then you can highlight sections and make notes using the Kindle version. But really I mostly listen to audio books to get a general feel of a topic. If I really want to study it, I go back through a Kindle version. Or alternatively, I use Shortform if the book is on there to get a condensed version of the book to make notes from. Great question!
@@Martin_Adams I take my fleeting notes with a combination of photos and texted if needed. Kinda like I did with with my lecture notes. When I finely start to write my issue are that I write a novel when a paragraph would have sufficed. So it's a mixed bag. What I mean with writing as little as possible and reading as little as possible are more to refer to how much nonsense I need to skim to get to the information I need. When you have a page of nice words that doesn't let me come closer to the understanding or the meaty part of the information but nuggets are stuck in between. Yesterday I stumbled over a note from 2018 where I wished to keep all notes in the same place but interconnected Like a stars in a galaxy. What I lacked then was a program that could handle the depth of a galaxy wide mind map. For me Zettelkasten will mean reading and writing less because I don't need to repeatedly skim over the same irrelevant information, if I need to read more than my atomic notes I will know where to find the information. Why I managed photos are that I think it sometimes can help with fleeting notes, like if a poster in town sparks a thought. And the closet working system I have for noting how far in to the audiobook are, screen print if it's app based in a phone or on a tablet. I often either go back and forth over the words or use a e-book or paper-book. Capturing the thought can be either i save the photo to a text file and write or write on the photo it self (rarely) sometimes in a chat to someone if it was something fun.
Thank you Martin, well presented. Great info . . .
Thank you. Your videos spark ideas in my mind from the day i found them .
The thing I am struggling with the most is the difference between literature and permanent notes. Zettelkasten is a great method, but also really abstract with so few good tutorials on it because it isn't widely known. At least your explanations of it are good @martin adams.
The way I understand it is that "Literature notes" are basically all source pieces of information you collect while consuming articles, videos, books. And the "Permanent Notes" are your own ideas or informations that are not tied to a source? I guess? I just learned about the method 1h ago :]
Literature notes = other peoples' ideas. Permanent notes = your ideas, your trains of thought, your connections, your understanding.
@@krug123 Neither are correct. I just recently figured it out. There are no literature notes, only bibliography notes which are small references to ideas sort of an index of the source with pieces you found interesting. And permanent notes which was where Luhmann would write down his thoughts, or observations on a matter with a clear reference to the source, but he would also at times just quote something, sometimes with an explanation. Those are called excerpt notes.
I recommend looking up Scott. P. Scheper. He has extremely good information on the Zettelkasten and how Luhmann intended it. He's very analog but you can replicate in Obsidian which is what I'm doing.
@@productivity6693 No. Literature notes are notes taken on stuff you read from books, articles, etc. When Luhrman created the system it was mainly books and articles (no internet), hence why its was named "literature" notes. This is stored in the reference section with the bibliography.
@@hypatia4754 Yes I know, so the concept of literature note is equal to what Luhmann called Bib notes.
Yes!! Well done!
I've listened to multiple video all talking about this method but it's all nice an theoretical. Show me a real life example of this in an actual class then after the class.
It’s a fair comment, appreciate the feedback.
The biggest problem for me is "finding the time" to turn my fleeting notes into literature notes, though I know that's one of the most important parts of the whole system.
Couldn't agree more. It's a lot of hard work. Part of the challenge is whether you really love the subject, or if it's something you have to learn to get through the syllabus. In that case, maybe it's best to pick your battles, and be honest at which areas are a) the most beneficial to the method, and b) have the biggest impact on your grades.
I find it similar to GTD with processing tasks in a given day and prioritizing the important ones
@@Martin_Adams I don't really understand how a fleeting note turns into a literature note. I mean, they are different, not part of a transition.
Fleeting notes are quick capture of thoughts or information that will vanish, of course in your own words.
Literature notes on the other hand, are notes taken on a planned session, also using your own words.
So how it's supposed to turn one into another ?
BTW, if both are atomic, what's the difference really ?
I believe the only difference is the source (ie: 'a book' vs 'my own thinking')
Still don't have an answer on how to deal with 1 or 1,5-hour lectures. I'm new in some humanities field and start study which requires attending extensive lectures full of knowledge. I know making notes in your own words and with complete comprehension is a skill we need to develop, but still, it's tough. Nobody is gonna wait for you because you need to think and make your superbly useful zkst notes. Any ideas? Experience?
Great question. So you’re not going to be able to do that in the lecture itself. You want to capture the best you can what relevant, and remove the repetition, etc. This is like highlighting in a book.
If the lecturer is going too quick, then you might decide to base it off the slides, and focus on capturing pointers to which slide is about what.
What is critical though, the real work happens outside of the lecture. That’s where to digest the information and write your proper notes for studying, essays and revision.
This of course is theoretical as it has been a long time since I was at university. But I have used it for online courses where I capture the most useful information during the video, then process and make the smart nodes after.
A long thought on lecture notes from my dyslexic view point. In the end a question on notes from audiobooks.
As a dyslexic, in my university studies I used photos a lot in my note taking. Often trying to connect them in the paper in pages strait a way or noting to which photo in the series I was writing about. So I didn't need to write both the teachers words and my quick notes at the same time.
I'm really new (almost all of a week) in to my knowledge of the Zattelkasten system. So can't talk to much to that. But I definitely would skip writing as much as possible in the classroom more focus on my fleeting notes and to what slide or graph or text the lecturer/ professor are writing so I can connect it easier later. Still can say this. I dropped out of my studies just before my bachelor degree because of life and my inability to keep up.
For me finding the Zettelkasten system gives me hope that I actually will be able to comeback and finish my degree and keep going as far as I want in my studies.
As a dyslexic you usually have come to your own systems of how to study. Do not stop doing what works use Zattelkasten to help you to keep track and compliment, help fill the gaps not having to read everything over and over to get your notes functional. Just a spontaneously thought.
I do have a question how do you take notes from your audiobook?
As a dyslexic I use audiobooks in a huge degree but quite often have trouble with taking note, and more trouble with taking notes in an academic way with full citation.
So if you have tip on that I would be extremely grateful.
Thank you for your insight. I like to think that the Zettelkasten can be used in many ways, such as if you prefer diagrams, photos, etc. It's about keeping things short and light but connecting ideas to build up the bigger picture.
Audiobook note taking is a hard one. I use Audible and tried bookmarking sections, but could never quite find the bit to go back to. I have used the Bear app on my phone to make quick text notes. Maybe pause the book and make voice notes.
As you say, getting the references can be hard, so maybe the bookmark feature could help.
An alternative if you use Kindle and Audible (although not the cheapest), is to get the Kindle version of the book also. Then you can actually listen to the audio book as it reads along in the Kindle app. Then you can highlight sections and make notes using the Kindle version.
But really I mostly listen to audio books to get a general feel of a topic. If I really want to study it, I go back through a Kindle version. Or alternatively, I use Shortform if the book is on there to get a condensed version of the book to make notes from.
Great question!
@@Martin_Adams
I take my fleeting notes with a combination of photos and texted if needed. Kinda like I did with with my lecture notes. When I finely start to write my issue are that I write a novel when a paragraph would have sufficed. So it's a mixed bag.
What I mean with writing as little as possible and reading as little as possible are more to refer to how much nonsense I need to skim to get to the information I need. When you have a page of nice words that doesn't let me come closer to the understanding or the meaty part of the information but nuggets are stuck in between. Yesterday I stumbled over a note from 2018 where I wished to keep all notes in the same place but interconnected Like a stars in a galaxy. What I lacked then was a program that could handle the depth of a galaxy wide mind map.
For me Zettelkasten will mean reading and writing less because I don't need to repeatedly skim over the same irrelevant information, if I need to read more than my atomic notes I will know where to find the information.
Why I managed photos are that I think it sometimes can help with fleeting notes, like if a poster in town sparks a thought.
And the closet working system I have for noting how far in to the audiobook are, screen print if it's app based in a phone or on a tablet. I often either go back and forth over the words or use a e-book or paper-book. Capturing the thought can be either i save the photo to a text file and write or write on the photo it self (rarely) sometimes in a chat to someone if it was something fun.
making example always better than speaking
settle casten