Brothers...the glories of this world is great, but do not forget the eternal, everlasting glory of kingdom of the righteous king, Yahweh. Righteous God, in your grace, may these lost children return to you. Amin!!
One idea that you could also do is have the freezing air from their charge turn empart some defensive bonus. You can do a lot with it, though the evil answer is to automatically freeze anybody that makes contact on that turn.
Fun fact about Chatter: before gen 6 it didn't have a 100% confusion. Instead in gens 4 and 5 you could customize its sound and increase its confusion rate depending on how loud it was. The thing was that a lot of people used Chatter to say really messed up things like the n-word. So it was banned from competitive.
Fun fact, for a time in gen 7 topsy turvy was used in balance hackmons, in order to counter some of the stat boosting nonsense you could get up to, esp w/ Z-Geomancy!
Electric has a ton of good signature moves because whenever Gamefreak wants to make an electric physical attacker good, they don't want it to spill over into making electric physical attackers good in general. So they get a signature move, becoming one of the few electric physical attackers allowed to have good STAB. The same thing happens with 100% accurate rock moves.
I'll have to say as sad as it is, Zoroark's Night Daze/Bitter Malice is kinda pointless to have on them as it goes against their whole gimmick of disguising as other pokemon. The moment you reveal it, you may as well have had the illusion break.
It would be really cool if there was a way that those moves could also be disguised if Zoroark was under illusion. It would be so hard to implement but it would be way cooler
@@CupcakeleI’m not sure how this would work logistically. If Zoroark used Bitter Malice and it disguised itself as an Ice Beam that OHKO’d a Flutter Main for super effective damage, the jig would be up. You’d know immediately that your opponent has a Zoroark out.
Shelter was incredible in PLA. It boosted defense and obscured you, which is to say, rose evasion, so it was actually really really good and carried me on my Giratina encounter (which is arguably the hardest fight in series history)
I was playing a rom hack the other day and they made a final boss trainer have a lvl 105 legendary. It was a good surprise but reminded me of PLA because it's one of the few instances in pokémon where the trainers break the rules
Well it was an 8v6, and the speed system meant that you would get hit at least once by every single pokemon, including beefed up giratinas. It was only hard so long stayed at equal level, you could easily overlevel and take him on without too much struggle, and the free mythical were nice
@@wumpoooo I can only speak for myself, but both times I played PLA I wasn’t overleveled and I beat Volo and Giratina without much difficulty. Edit: no legendary or mythical Pokémon on my team either
It think the ONLY reason Shelter is what it is in SV is because you can only get Acid Armor while it’s still Sligoo. But in that case, just allow Goodra to remember Acid Armor…
Shelter should raise Defense and Evasion by one stage each to match its effect in Legends: Arceus. Regardless of what Smogon thinks of evasion, it's better than being a clone of Acid Armor and Iron Defense with less PP.
Shell Trap is slightly odd, whilst it has -3 priority on paper, it actually fires immediately after the opponent if the enemy makes contact with Turtonator, which can actually potentially allow it to even act earlier than it would with its regular speed. For example, if the enemy used Extreme Speed on Turtonator, then Shell Trap would essentially become a priority move. That said if it could be triggered by any offensive move it could be really nasty, alternatively if Shell Trap reduced damage taken it could also be more useful.
Imagine Turtonator paired up with Drought Ninetales in doubles. & Ninetales used Quick Attack on it to immediately activate its Shell Trap, but unfortunately the move only works if the enemy attacked the user, not the ally.
I would halve the power, but have it hit all opponents in double battles, be triggered by any damaging move and deal double damage if the triggering move made contact
@@zoroearc2582 Biggest problem really is a) getting the trap to trigger and b) needing Turtonator to survive the hit, since if it get 1-shot it doesn't really matter if they trap triggered or not.
"It's pretty much Just Kecleons Color change ability." ... No? Conversion 2 changes you randomly to a type which resists the last move which hit you. Color Change changes you to the type of the last move which hit you. They are EXTREMELY different.
@@BHox01 I know, that's why I said that it really doesn't work that well. Plus, you can't get hit by a ghost type move turn 1 with Kecleon due to the base normal type it has. But after you can.
I think grimmsnarls false surrender is a decent shout as it’s just an 80 BP dark move that can’t miss. It has access to darkest lariat, throat chop, sucker punch and foul play which all have better secondary effects, are stronger, the same base power or are priority so it would pretty much always prefer those options.
That is a good shoutout. Good to go against minimize/double team or evasion abilities. But if you are playing competitively you would likely never see those types of moves.
Extra info for why Fairy Lock is the worst: In a specific version of Sword and Shield, Fairy Lock would crash the game if used. At first people thought it was because they had called it via metronome (myself and my friends included) however what was actually the case was a weird bug where Fairy Lock would crash the game if there were battle animations turned on, and while you can turn off the animations in a regular playthrough, online battles like singles/doubles had the animations turned on permanently, this bug lasted quote a while but was fixed in a later version update
I've actually had great success with Topsy-Turvy on Malamar in Singles, using it when you're predicting an enemy to setup can be huge, especially against slow setup mons like Dondozo.
7:30 Powder Signature move of Vivillon (Learnable in ONE game by ribombee and lost access to it after instantly so I say it counts as a signature move still) 100x worse than silk trap and you can’t say otherwise That or attack order simply because Special attacking vespiqueen is objectively more viable than physical
I'd argue the defense drop from Obstruct, Attack drop from King's Shield, and Burn from Bulwark are all better on their respective users. If Spidops had a bit more speed it would be better.
Matt... give malamar a focus sash and Topsy turvy, switch it into a mon that is setting up (or sacrifice a mon to let it in for free if you wanna be super safe) and you have a guaranteed setup killer. It's great.
I think it's more to say if Topsy Turvy is the worst, then it's a testament to how good signature dark moves are in general more than how bad Topsy Turvy is. Honestly I'm having trouble thinking of a worse one. Maybe Dark Void after the nerf but that move was also the worst in terms of being the most toxic....
Waterfall, while a pretty good move now, and widely available to Pokemon since Gen 2, deserves an honorable mention for Water type. Only the Seaking line got it, and it was just weaker-Surf that they learned in place of Hydro Pump. It was Special damage and didn't flinch back then either
I once watched a guy set up a whole mega rayquaza to sweep, and then the enemy brought out malamar and used topsy turvy. It was the best thing ive ever seen
Sabrina, the mad lad, loaded most of her Pokemon in Yellow with some of the most baffling, worst psychic moves, including either flash, kinesis or psywave. Since her AI was random, it was pure chance if Sabrina fired a powerful psychic or the mentioned lesser moves from her Abra-Kadabra-Alakazam line.
The fact they made her signature TM the completely useless psywave instead of psychic and then had the gall to still give out the Psychic TM in Saffron City by some rando called Mr. Psychic is one of the dumbest things.
@@youtube-kit9450 My thoughts exactly. Think they should have switched that. Yes, that would mean that Psychic could only be learned through her TM but I think Psychic Pokemon would survive Gen 1 with only Psybeam.
even if one could get darkrai or arceus with roar of time through events, thats the thing, its from EVENTS, thus dialga is still the only one who can actually learn it outside of events.
I think that gen 1 waterfall was probably a worse signature move. It was exclusive to seaking (& goldeen) of all pokemon, & it was outclassed by surf. I'm presuming you didn't put it in the list because many people don't even know that waterfall existed in gen 1.
In pokemon detergent (a mod of insurgence), the cubone line gets the ability "bone zone" which doubles the power of bone moves, and also make them ignore immunities. It makes cubone somewhat viable. Trick-or-treat is problematic in doubles paired with curse: If a non-ghost type uses curse they don't get to select a target, because the move targets the user. They can then become a ghost type before the move is executed, but ghost-type curse requires a target, so what happens? The behavior has been different in every single game, including crashing the game!
@@owenpeck4857 and I can't imagine many cases where you'd WANT to remove a burn on the opponent. Nor would you ever WANT to do heavy 90 bp damage to your ally. Only cases I can imagine are: Ally has an ability that makes it get a buff when hit by a water move AND was burned somehow... Opponent has Guts (they probably have a Flame Orb too though) You REALLY want to replace an accidental burn with something like sleep or Toxic, but gosh...that would NEVER happen.
sadly even with trick or treat you cant give any pokemon an 8x weakness, as the only two types that hit ghost super effectively are ghost itself and dark, and neither of those two moves can hit 3 types super effectively either
My thoughts regarding all mentioned moves: Barrage: would be forgivable if Exeggcute was found much earlier in the games they appear in Conversion 2: would have made so much more sense if it was given priority Trick or Treat: in generations without Tera, i can at least see utility in this when your ally is 4x weak to fighting Forest's Curse: i unironically like this move due to Grass' immunity to powder moves Sparkling Aria: i adore Primarina, so it hurts that their signature move has very little utility. Liquid Voice also makes for far more powerful sound-based Water moves on Primarina Shell Trap: i mean, it may catch your opponent off guard when they're not expecting it... but they're expecting it because you're using Turtonator Silk Trap: Spidops is the problem here Bone Club: currently playing through Pokemon Blue... and yeah, this move misses A LOT. and Cubone/Marowak aren't nearly fast enough to get those flinches Tar Shot: this one at least makes sense in Raid scenarios Purify: definitely needs reworked... at least allow Pyukumuku to recover even if their ally isn't status'd Kinesis: should either have better accuracy or lower opponent's accuracy AND evasion. May as well also make it a weak damage dealing move on top of that Triple Kick: like you said, it needs a slight BP boost, especially since Hitmontop has that Technician to power it up Chatter: i don't mind it due to confusion. But Chatot doesn't really have the stats to stand its ground even if we buff this move Freeze Shock/Ice Burn: should either have a greater chance of status like Beak Blast OR have an additional chance of causing freeze kinda like Tri Attack Dark Void: yeah let's just revert its accuracy to 80% now that Smeargle can't use it Topsy Turvy: yeah I got nothin' Fairy Lock: at least increase to 3 turns... let Klefki's influence be felt after it faints Shelter: due to its name, i thought it would also serve as a Protect variant... so maybe it should! Electrify: yeeeah i don't have a lot to say. It's already redundant as well as incredibly situational. Roar of Time: um... it's not sound-based?? I never knew that! Let's make it sound-based
so like fun fact about chatter: it actually was the reason chatot got banned from tournaments for a while. If you're wondering how: you could record a sound to then have it be played when chatot used chatter. I think we all know where this went.
@@youtube-kit9450 Given Masuda's visit to New York before making Gen 5 was the first time he ever knew Black people existed... I think that answers the question....
I think it's important to consider the original context of Shelter. In Scarlet and Violet, it's just Acid Armor with less PP, but in Legends Arceus, it provides Goodra with a boost to both Defense and Special Defense, Obscures it (temporarily raises its Evasiveness), and raises its action speed. All of this is... frankly fantastic for a single use of a move.
I think Powder should be the worst bug move. It was signature to Vivillon (Cutiefly gets it now too) and what it does is, if the target uses a fire type move, it prevents the move from coming out and deals a monumental... 1/4 of the targets health. Talk about underwhelming. It's just so niche and not worth it.
Yeah, I really can't imagine someone SERIOUSLY using Vivillion to counter a fire type.... and if the oppponent is not using a fire type, you'd need some serious prediction on it cause Bug/Flying is weak to almost every other type in the game....
Here's a idea to buff Roar of Time: make it so both the user and the target have to recharge for one turn. It works thematically and could be useful in doubles or with Leftovers
Or give Dialga the ability to skip all chargeup and recharge effects. It's the master of time, after all. It's criminal that it never got an actually good ability that fits its flavor
Triple Dive does not have a heightened crit chance but I'm assuming you meant 3 hits means more chances to crit? I went to Bulbapedia so quick when I heard that
By "additional critical hit chances" I mean that 3 hits give you more chances to crit than just 1 hit. Although I think having a higher crit chance per hit would make that move sweet, poor mans surging strikes.
if primarina is faster (probably isnt). otherwise, in addition to doing nothing at all to reduce the incoming damage, also removes the burn chip damage
As the others said, that's pretty much the only use other than the niche case of hitting a Water Absorb ally who was burned (though I'm not sure if the effect will proc then) and even then.... Yeah, you're better off just relying on OHKO moves than actually using Sparkling Aria with advantage.
Z Conversion was such a fun set to run back in Sun and Moon. You would swap in on someone with something like Close Combat, which they will obviously go for as you are a normal type. You then use Z Conversion with Shadowball in your first move slot, turning you into a ghost type, thus making you immune to the fighting move and giving you an omniboost for free.
Wait is Sparkling Aria even a signature move anymore? It was in Gen 7 and 8 but Lapras can use it via breeding in Gen 9. Edit: While Freeze Shock/Ice Burn is bad, I'd argue that Glaciate is worse.
In gen 3, conversion 2 has use for trapping both magneton and dugtrio using porygon2's trace ability and becoming immune or resistant to their stab moves, though its still super niche
Conversion 2 sounds like an interesting mind game/risk reward move if used right. I mean changing your type to an immunity could be enough to win a match up if you're willing to gamble for it. Even then a good resistance could still mess up an opponent's plan to quickly take down one of the highest special attackers in the game. Though every Normal type move except the obvious "Do nothing" ones (that have interesting Z effects anyway) have SOME kind of niche strategy. Just a shame pokemon never really tests strategy except maybe the Gen 9 Raid bosses.
Magnet Bomb should've been included, since it only learns on Magnemite line & Probopass, to which all have very low Attack stat & Magnet Bomb doesn't fit them due to Magnet Bomb being Physical & said Pokemon have higher Special Attack than Physical Attack
Yeah, I generally consider a move "signature" if only very particular pokemon learn it as a clear limitation of the move, like it's never a TM and only pokemon with a particular flavor trait learn it. Magnemite and Probopass lines both have to do with magnets and thus get magnet bomb. So it'd count enough in my eyes. With over 1000 pokemon at the moment, it's kind of hard to come up with distinct effects for new pokemon lately. (looking at you Sparkling Aria that literally heals the opponent's burn for SOME reason...., again only good for stopping Guts with Tempo but odds are they have a flame orb anyway).
Shell Trap maybe would be better if the effect remains until it's triggered. Like, you use Shell Trap turn one, you don't get hit, turn two you attack, your opponent uses a contact movr and receives damage from Shell Trap
Funny thing about Topsy-Turvy is that I was watching a Pimpnite Video on TH-cam and he was going up against a Hacked Shiny Marshadow which used Spectral Theif and stole a +6 Attack boost, but Pimpnite had a Malamar with Topsy-Turvy and reversed the Stat Changes! It was one of the most hilarious things I've ever seen! In others words, everything has it's use, even if it's not obvious.
Even splash has a use! It can be used to waste a turn, which might, in theory, help if the opponent is holding a life orb and knows something like counter.
4:05 there's a third one, actually (however, I think it's not a signature move) Soak is a Water type move which adds the Water typing to the chosen mon
Triple Kick is actually pretty great when paired with Technician. The move hits 3 times with 10/20/30 base power, but Technician boosts that to 15/30/45. What you're left with is a Fighting-Type move with 80 base power, that is is boosted by STAB, AND bypasses Sturdy/Focus Sash/Substitute. Yes each strike has a 10% chance to miss, but if Hitmontop is holding a Wide Lens, then the accuracy for both Triple Kick AND Triple Axel becomes 99% for each strike. It's probably not the most optimal for competitive, but Triple Axel kicks ass in a casual playthrough. It pays for itself with the amount of Geodude you end up fighting lol
Topsy turvy is my favorite move, so useful, "oh, did you just spend 3 turns sword dancing? TOO BAD SUCKA! Funny, cool, weirdo move i love with all my soul just ruined your day, also you spammed defense boost moves, sorry, but you now get spanked by night slash!"
I disagree with your ice type and rock type options. Tar shot isn't great, but it has utility by lowering accuracy and making them be hit harder by fire moves. To me, if you're going to say roar of time is terrible because it's a hyper beam variant, then Rock Wrecker from Rhyperior I feel is the choice. As for ice, I'd say Ice ball. I know it’s not exactly a signature move anymore based on your criteria, but still
Rock wrecker isn't a bad choice. I think I didn't really look at it because it was a signature move for 1 generation and then Dweble/Crustle had access to it by level up since gen 5. Ice ball wasn't considered since a few lines had access via breeding in the same generation while others via level up a few generations later. Still a solid choice though if we are counting moves that were once "signature".
I've found great success in 1v1s using a gimmick stall porygon2 set with conversion 2 on it. Most pokemon tend to run choice items, so resisting whatever move it uses can go a long way.
I remember one time where I domed an OU tier leader/mod in gen 7 with Turonator, dude didn't know it got shell smash and he had no answer after I had something else chew through it lol
Hehe at least it's more about Spidops than the move itself, which isn't bad at all, it's just even Spidops has limited reasons to use it, but I think it more says how good the other bug signature moves are if Twinneedle is second place and it's not bad at all (for a bug move and in the era of breaking subs/focus sashes).
Tar shot is for switch reads. It leaves your opponents incoming mon in a position where even if they could have easily tanked a fire attack now they cant and if they stay in and kill your mon they have to face your next pokemon at a speed deficit putting them at tempo loss at best and leaving an opening for you to set up at worst. It’s not good but that’s what it’s for.
P2 very, very rarely uses Conversion 2 in gen 3 to counter trap Dugtrio and Magneton. Dugtrio it can trap anyway with recover spam or ice beam, but conversion 2 can make it easier to come out at 100% health (also 2 crits can ruin your trap) and adds the potential to trap magneton which you normally can’t threaten, but can sit on certain sets forever as a ground type. I’ve seen a cursed set with Conversion 2/Flash to sit on and cripple Dug/Mag and allow trace Gardevoir to come in and set up on after…
@@MattBudYT true, I didn't think that it also nullifies powder-based moves...... I did say that the move I mentioned greatly fits for Pokemon that can learn Grass moves, mostly Fire-type Pokemon, since most of them can learn Solar Beam
Sparkling Aria (at least until Gen 9 cuz now Lapras gets it) is even more useless on Primarina because of its hidden ability liquid voice and it having hyper voice, which is the same move except it doesn’t cure burns and doesn’t hurt your opponent.
just hearing what fairy lock does, the only use case I can think of for it is to use perish song, switch in klefki on 2nd last turn, and then prankster fairy lock on last turn
i could see a potential use for sparkling aria: to use against pokemon with flame orb guts. but it would have to be faster, and i'm not so sure about that base 60 speed...
in defense of electrify, you could use it on 2 turn/charge attacks to lessen the blow. of course, you would still need to be faster, but i can see it being useable in certain situations,
for the bug type move not being powder i'm kinda thrown off, then again, it's not like anyone at all remembers it because who would use a vivillion that much and teach it that specific move lmao
Any move that disables the opponent in some way but only for one turn, I automatically consider to be bad moves. Like Protect, yeah you are protected from the next move, but you are also wasting your turn to use this move, so really all you did was make the battle take longer.
Kingdra needs sheer force if stats are not revised. But if it has pseudo legendary stats, then it should have Drizzle since Tyranitar has Sandstream If not, Mega Launcher, Tinted Lens, Merciless or Unaware are also great options.
20:55 why would I use shelter over acid armor? Simple, only Hisuian sliggoo/goodra get them even if it is just a re-skin. I guess acid armors more pp is a valid excuse but still.
Ice Burn should fire in one turn under harsh sunlight, and Freeze Shock should fire in one turn under electric terrain.
Or how about Freeze shock should fire in Snow
Brothers...the glories of this world is great, but do not forget the eternal, everlasting glory of kingdom of the righteous king, Yahweh. Righteous God, in your grace, may these lost children return to you. Amin!!
Lol I used a fused Kyurem for the first time the other day and was surprised to see Freeze Shock was a 2 turn move considering the base damage
One idea that you could also do is have the freezing air from their charge turn empart some defensive bonus. You can do a lot with it, though the evil answer is to automatically freeze anybody that makes contact on that turn.
@@jpraise6771dummy you misspelled “amen” you’re going down
Technically the worst fairy type signature move is Light of Ruin, because nobody can use it.
Dude Topsy-Turvy on bulky Malamar is so fun to punish sweepers. Like it turns them from dangerous threats to little pupies that can't git you much.
mfw gen 7 marshadow tries stealing all my superpower buffs just to get hard punished
@@astoron8398 Fr! I remember that lol
Topsy turvy is one of my favorites for hackmons
Fun fact about Chatter: before gen 6 it didn't have a 100% confusion. Instead in gens 4 and 5 you could customize its sound and increase its confusion rate depending on how loud it was. The thing was that a lot of people used Chatter to say really messed up things like the n-word. So it was banned from competitive.
I used to love that. And would just scream into the DS and make it really loud so it had that increased chance.
It's so funny to think that the meta was to scream swear words into your DS mic if you were running Chatter
love the footage of kinesis missing and then immediately hitting a focus blast. So funny and must have taken a bit to record
Might have taken 12 tries
Fun fact, for a time in gen 7 topsy turvy was used in balance hackmons, in order to counter some of the stat boosting nonsense you could get up to, esp w/ Z-Geomancy!
It also has an interesting niche in Pokemon Masters EX, but...ironically Grapploct is the one that learns it there.
Electric has a ton of good signature moves because whenever Gamefreak wants to make an electric physical attacker good, they don't want it to spill over into making electric physical attackers good in general. So they get a signature move, becoming one of the few electric physical attackers allowed to have good STAB. The same thing happens with 100% accurate rock moves.
I'll have to say as sad as it is, Zoroark's Night Daze/Bitter Malice is kinda pointless to have on them as it goes against their whole gimmick of disguising as other pokemon. The moment you reveal it, you may as well have had the illusion break.
It would be really cool if there was a way that those moves could also be disguised if Zoroark was under illusion. It would be so hard to implement but it would be way cooler
I kinda wish Zoroark gets a hidden ability that makes it better or better signature moves that work with illusion.
What if they did double damage if the illusion hasn't been broken, and then broke the illusion?
@@CupcakeleI’m not sure how this would work logistically. If Zoroark used Bitter Malice and it disguised itself as an Ice Beam that OHKO’d a Flutter Main for super effective damage, the jig would be up. You’d know immediately that your opponent has a Zoroark out.
@@dc_dachi Well Night Daze and Bitter Malice could just be disquised as Dark Pulse and Shadow Ball respectively.
Shelter was incredible in PLA. It boosted defense and obscured you, which is to say, rose evasion, so it was actually really really good and carried me on my Giratina encounter (which is arguably the hardest fight in series history)
I was playing a rom hack the other day and they made a final boss trainer have a lvl 105 legendary. It was a good surprise but reminded me of PLA because it's one of the few instances in pokémon where the trainers break the rules
Was it really that difficult?
Well it was an 8v6, and the speed system meant that you would get hit at least once by every single pokemon, including beefed up giratinas. It was only hard so long stayed at equal level, you could easily overlevel and take him on without too much struggle, and the free mythical were nice
@@wumpoooo I can only speak for myself, but both times I played PLA I wasn’t overleveled and I beat Volo and Giratina without much difficulty.
Edit: no legendary or mythical Pokémon on my team either
@@edmg7Same, don't really know why people consider it that difficult
It think the ONLY reason Shelter is what it is in SV is because you can only get Acid Armor while it’s still Sligoo. But in that case, just allow Goodra to remember Acid Armor…
They reverted recalling prior evo moves? Wow
@@Skullhawk13 Think it’s more of that if you got Goodra in PLA, it can’t relearn Acid Armor. Still dumb though.
Isn’t Shelter +3 defense tho?
@@maxspecsno
Shelter should raise Defense and Evasion by one stage each to match its effect in Legends: Arceus. Regardless of what Smogon thinks of evasion, it's better than being a clone of Acid Armor and Iron Defense with less PP.
Shell Trap is slightly odd, whilst it has -3 priority on paper, it actually fires immediately after the opponent if the enemy makes contact with Turtonator, which can actually potentially allow it to even act earlier than it would with its regular speed. For example, if the enemy used Extreme Speed on Turtonator, then Shell Trap would essentially become a priority move. That said if it could be triggered by any offensive move it could be really nasty, alternatively if Shell Trap reduced damage taken it could also be more useful.
Imagine Turtonator paired up with Drought Ninetales in doubles. & Ninetales used Quick Attack on it to immediately activate its Shell Trap, but unfortunately the move only works if the enemy attacked the user, not the ally.
I would halve the power, but have it hit all opponents in double battles, be triggered by any damaging move and deal double damage if the triggering move made contact
@@zoroearc2582 It already hits both opponents in doubles
@@Arthion didn't know that, thanks
@@zoroearc2582 Biggest problem really is a) getting the trap to trigger and b) needing Turtonator to survive the hit, since if it get 1-shot it doesn't really matter if they trap triggered or not.
"It's pretty much Just Kecleons Color change ability."
... No?
Conversion 2 changes you randomly to a type which resists the last move which hit you.
Color Change changes you to the type of the last move which hit you.
They are EXTREMELY different.
They have the same use. (For the most part) make you resistant to the last move used against you, even if it really doesn't work sometimes.
@@CobaltPerseverance154 only like half the types resist themselves though? And god forbid you get hit by a ghost or dragon move...
@@BHox01 I know, that's why I said that it really doesn't work that well. Plus, you can't get hit by a ghost type move turn 1 with Kecleon due to the base normal type it has. But after you can.
@@CobaltPerseverance154 For the most part? Only 9/18 types resist themselves. That's half, not "most."
@@av2279 Not for the functionality. For the use. The way they function is pretty different, but gave similar purpose.
Kinesis is forgettable that they forgot to give it to the Abra line until Yellow, even though it does exist in the games before it.
14:56 Triple Kick actually was used as a Niche option competetively in gen 3, to break through Subtitute Tyranitar
I used technician hitmotop with triple kick and it got me through many play thoughs
Roar of Time actually has a use in Pokémon go. It makes any timed item you use last longer
I think grimmsnarls false surrender is a decent shout as it’s just an 80 BP dark move that can’t miss. It has access to darkest lariat, throat chop, sucker punch and foul play which all have better secondary effects, are stronger, the same base power or are priority so it would pretty much always prefer those options.
That is a good shoutout. Good to go against minimize/double team or evasion abilities. But if you are playing competitively you would likely never see those types of moves.
Simple buff for roar of time, if it kos with the attack it skips the charging, good old gen 1 mechanics
This should be the norm for pretty much every recharging move.
@@lipika2841 Thank Arceus, y'all aren't balancing the game.
@@cadetjones9205 fr, one Choice Band or Choice specs and we would have all sorts of tanks nuking everything in sight with no drawback.
@@cadetjones9205 People that ask for this would end up complaining about it almost immediately if it actually happened. It would dominate the meta.
@@ChrisWilliams-ur7fn Porygon Z alone would have them crying if this change happened.
Extra info for why Fairy Lock is the worst:
In a specific version of Sword and Shield, Fairy Lock would crash the game if used.
At first people thought it was because they had called it via metronome (myself and my friends included) however what was actually the case was a weird bug where Fairy Lock would crash the game if there were battle animations turned on, and while you can turn off the animations in a regular playthrough, online battles like singles/doubles had the animations turned on permanently, this bug lasted quote a while but was fixed in a later version update
I've actually had great success with Topsy-Turvy on Malamar in Singles, using it when you're predicting an enemy to setup can be huge, especially against slow setup mons like Dondozo.
It’s such a cool concept of a move. Would be nice on a prankster mon to counter setup
Also comes in clutch on gen 7 playthroughs against totem mons
What kind of build do you use?
I had a similar thing with Gen VII Ubers. Geomancy Xerneas was such a massive threat until you reversed those stats.
Land's Wrath makes me want to watch a video about overshadowed signature moves.
7:30
Powder
Signature move of Vivillon
(Learnable in ONE game by ribombee and lost access to it after instantly so I say it counts as a signature move still)
100x worse than silk trap and you can’t say otherwise
That or attack order simply because Special attacking vespiqueen is objectively more viable than physical
Don’t worry Dipplin, I get confused sometimes too 😢🫶🏼
*casually forgets glaciate is a signature move of base Kyurem and it's horrendous*
Topsy turvy carried me in totem fights
Writing this strategy down for my next playthrough
Aways wondered why barrage is a normal move, my bro eggie is the only one who knows it and they didint even make it grass or psychic type
Focus sash Malamar with topsy turvey is incredible in national dex seeing how much set up sweepers there is in that tier
silk trap actually has one of the best secondary effects of non status protects but isn't useful on spidops. shame it's exclusive
I'd argue the defense drop from Obstruct, Attack drop from King's Shield, and Burn from Bulwark are all better on their respective users. If Spidops had a bit more speed it would be better.
If a Pokémon can learn a signature move via breeding Bulbapedia seems to still consider it a signature move so
Yeah that’s why I still counted a move like Sparkling Aria.
@@MattBudYT gotcha. I know that Decidueyes’s (both of them) and incinaroar’s signature moves are better.
Matt... give malamar a focus sash and Topsy turvy, switch it into a mon that is setting up (or sacrifice a mon to let it in for free if you wanna be super safe) and you have a guaranteed setup killer. It's great.
As long as there’s no hazards on the field😬
@@MattBudYT dude cmon you can hazard control with a different mon (or 2)
It is also great to cheese Ultra Nekrozma in a normal playthrough (or any other totem pokemon)
I think it's more to say if Topsy Turvy is the worst, then it's a testament to how good signature dark moves are in general more than how bad Topsy Turvy is. Honestly I'm having trouble thinking of a worse one. Maybe Dark Void after the nerf but that move was also the worst in terms of being the most toxic....
Waterfall, while a pretty good move now, and widely available to Pokemon since Gen 2, deserves an honorable mention for Water type. Only the Seaking line got it, and it was just weaker-Surf that they learned in place of Hydro Pump. It was Special damage and didn't flinch back then either
I once watched a guy set up a whole mega rayquaza to sweep, and then the enemy brought out malamar and used topsy turvy. It was the best thing ive ever seen
Imagine if electrify turned any move used after into an electric type move
Sabrina, the mad lad, loaded most of her Pokemon in Yellow with some of the most baffling, worst psychic moves, including either flash, kinesis or psywave. Since her AI was random, it was pure chance if Sabrina fired a powerful psychic or the mentioned lesser moves from her Abra-Kadabra-Alakazam line.
The fact they made her signature TM the completely useless psywave instead of psychic and then had the gall to still give out the Psychic TM in Saffron City by some rando called Mr. Psychic is one of the dumbest things.
@@youtube-kit9450 My thoughts exactly. Think they should have switched that. Yes, that would mean that Psychic could only be learned through her TM but I think Psychic Pokemon would survive Gen 1 with only Psybeam.
even if one could get darkrai or arceus with roar of time through events, thats the thing, its from EVENTS, thus dialga is still the only one who can actually learn it outside of events.
I think that gen 1 waterfall was probably a worse signature move. It was exclusive to seaking (& goldeen) of all pokemon, & it was outclassed by surf. I'm presuming you didn't put it in the list because many people don't even know that waterfall existed in gen 1.
Shelter actually obstructs the target in LA giving Goodra an evasion boost
Back in the day, I did double battles with a Gourgeist and Snorlax. Normal/Ghost Snorlax with Curse, Recycle, and Figy Berry is devastating.
In pokemon detergent (a mod of insurgence), the cubone line gets the ability "bone zone" which doubles the power of bone moves, and also make them ignore immunities. It makes cubone somewhat viable.
Trick-or-treat is problematic in doubles paired with curse: If a non-ghost type uses curse they don't get to select a target, because the move targets the user. They can then become a ghost type before the move is executed, but ghost-type curse requires a target, so what happens? The behavior has been different in every single game, including crashing the game!
"It makes cubone somewhat viable" bro never heard about Thick Club
@@asanchezdemit stacks with thick club, so it's pretty much a free belly drum on switch in
Shelter was actually nerfed because in Arceus, it rose both defenses AND rose evasion. So even if you could hit the thing, it wouldn't do much damage.
Throat Spray on Primarina is based with Sparkling Aria
Though by your criteria it wouldn’t fit since Lapras gets Sparkling Aria as of Gen 8
Even then, if any opponent has either throat chop or the ability soundproof, that strategy falls apart.
@@owenpeck4857 and I can't imagine many cases where you'd WANT to remove a burn on the opponent. Nor would you ever WANT to do heavy 90 bp damage to your ally. Only cases I can imagine are:
Ally has an ability that makes it get a buff when hit by a water move AND was burned somehow...
Opponent has Guts (they probably have a Flame Orb too though)
You REALLY want to replace an accidental burn with something like sleep or Toxic, but gosh...that would NEVER happen.
sadly even with trick or treat you cant give any pokemon an 8x weakness, as the only two types that hit ghost super effectively are ghost itself and dark, and neither of those two moves can hit 3 types super effectively either
however with forest curse you could hit something like a scizor with it and watch it melt even faster to fire attacks
My thoughts regarding all mentioned moves:
Barrage: would be forgivable if Exeggcute was found much earlier in the games they appear in
Conversion 2: would have made so much more sense if it was given priority
Trick or Treat: in generations without Tera, i can at least see utility in this when your ally is 4x weak to fighting
Forest's Curse: i unironically like this move due to Grass' immunity to powder moves
Sparkling Aria: i adore Primarina, so it hurts that their signature move has very little utility. Liquid Voice also makes for far more powerful sound-based Water moves on Primarina
Shell Trap: i mean, it may catch your opponent off guard when they're not expecting it... but they're expecting it because you're using Turtonator
Silk Trap: Spidops is the problem here
Bone Club: currently playing through Pokemon Blue... and yeah, this move misses A LOT. and Cubone/Marowak aren't nearly fast enough to get those flinches
Tar Shot: this one at least makes sense in Raid scenarios
Purify: definitely needs reworked... at least allow Pyukumuku to recover even if their ally isn't status'd
Kinesis: should either have better accuracy or lower opponent's accuracy AND evasion. May as well also make it a weak damage dealing move on top of that
Triple Kick: like you said, it needs a slight BP boost, especially since Hitmontop has that Technician to power it up
Chatter: i don't mind it due to confusion. But Chatot doesn't really have the stats to stand its ground even if we buff this move
Freeze Shock/Ice Burn: should either have a greater chance of status like Beak Blast OR have an additional chance of causing freeze kinda like Tri Attack
Dark Void: yeah let's just revert its accuracy to 80% now that Smeargle can't use it
Topsy Turvy: yeah I got nothin'
Fairy Lock: at least increase to 3 turns... let Klefki's influence be felt after it faints
Shelter: due to its name, i thought it would also serve as a Protect variant... so maybe it should!
Electrify: yeeeah i don't have a lot to say. It's already redundant as well as incredibly situational.
Roar of Time: um... it's not sound-based?? I never knew that! Let's make it sound-based
I mean roar of time isnt actually a roar. Thats just the naming. The actual move is just a big laser dialga shoots and has nothing to do with roaring
Topsy Turvy is in gen 9
@@AI-DreigonGPT oh you're right. Don't know how I missed that
@@AI-DreigonGPT I thought it came in around Gen 6.
@@pariahdark1892 yeah but this is also in gen 9
so like fun fact about chatter: it actually was the reason chatot got banned from tournaments for a while. If you're wondering how: you could record a sound to then have it be played when chatot used chatter.
I think we all know where this went.
"I think BDSP is good."
@@naturelulI*DS explodes*
I legit don't know how Gamefreak didn't think of this when making Chatter and giving you literal letters to put on your pokéball.
@@youtube-kit9450 Given Masuda's visit to New York before making Gen 5 was the first time he ever knew Black people existed... I think that answers the question....
I think it's important to consider the original context of Shelter. In Scarlet and Violet, it's just Acid Armor with less PP, but in Legends Arceus, it provides Goodra with a boost to both Defense and Special Defense, Obscures it (temporarily raises its Evasiveness), and raises its action speed. All of this is... frankly fantastic for a single use of a move.
I think Powder should be the worst bug move. It was signature to Vivillon (Cutiefly gets it now too) and what it does is, if the target uses a fire type move, it prevents the move from coming out and deals a monumental... 1/4 of the targets health. Talk about underwhelming. It's just so niche and not worth it.
Yeah, I really can't imagine someone SERIOUSLY using Vivillion to counter a fire type.... and if the oppponent is not using a fire type, you'd need some serious prediction on it cause Bug/Flying is weak to almost every other type in the game....
Here's a idea to buff Roar of Time: make it so both the user and the target have to recharge for one turn. It works thematically and could be useful in doubles or with Leftovers
Or just make recharge moves work universally like megaton hammer.
Or give Dialga the ability to skip all chargeup and recharge effects. It's the master of time, after all. It's criminal that it never got an actually good ability that fits its flavor
@astuteanansi4935 You can make that argument just about every Legendary and Mythical Pokémon before Victini.
Triple Dive does not have a heightened crit chance but I'm assuming you meant 3 hits means more chances to crit? I went to Bulbapedia so quick when I heard that
By "additional critical hit chances" I mean that 3 hits give you more chances to crit than just 1 hit. Although I think having a higher crit chance per hit would make that move sweet, poor mans surging strikes.
But doesn't sparkling aria help fight flame orb guts pokemon?
The flame orb would re-activate at the end of the turn
if primarina is faster (probably isnt). otherwise, in addition to doing nothing at all to reduce the incoming damage, also removes the burn chip damage
As the others said, that's pretty much the only use other than the niche case of hitting a Water Absorb ally who was burned (though I'm not sure if the effect will proc then) and even then....
Yeah, you're better off just relying on OHKO moves than actually using Sparkling Aria with advantage.
13:04 yeah kinesis is just a worse sand attack or gen 4-7 flash
Silktrap should not only just lower speed but should've trapped them from switching as the move name
Z Conversion was such a fun set to run back in Sun and Moon. You would swap in on someone with something like Close Combat, which they will obviously go for as you are a normal type. You then use Z Conversion with Shadowball in your first move slot, turning you into a ghost type, thus making you immune to the fighting move and giving you an omniboost for free.
Wait is Sparkling Aria even a signature move anymore? It was in Gen 7 and 8 but Lapras can use it via breeding in Gen 9.
Edit: While Freeze Shock/Ice Burn is bad, I'd argue that Glaciate is worse.
Glaciate is absolutely not worse. It's just better icy wind which is already a half decent move. Freeze shock and ice burn are basically unusable
And touch 1 mon compared to Glaciate glaciating the entire opponent's field@@wooptyfrickendoo6203
Bro how do you only have 4.38K subs, this video popped up in my recommended and I could have sworn you have 100K from the quality. Keep it up 👍🏻
That’s the dream! I just started 4-5 months ago so trying to work my way up.
Appreciate the comment
@@MattBudYT with content of this quality it won't take long, keep up the good effort and you'll make it
In gen 3, conversion 2 has use for trapping both magneton and dugtrio using porygon2's trace ability and becoming immune or resistant to their stab moves, though its still super niche
Conversion 2 sounds like an interesting mind game/risk reward move if used right. I mean changing your type to an immunity could be enough to win a match up if you're willing to gamble for it. Even then a good resistance could still mess up an opponent's plan to quickly take down one of the highest special attackers in the game. Though every Normal type move except the obvious "Do nothing" ones (that have interesting Z effects anyway) have SOME kind of niche strategy. Just a shame pokemon never really tests strategy except maybe the Gen 9 Raid bosses.
I actually used triple kick a lot in colosseum but colo is kinda known for having limited options lol
I love how half of these moves are the subject of a weedle twinneedle showcase vid
lapras gets access to sparkling aria making it a not so signature move
Magnet Bomb should've been included, since it only learns on Magnemite line & Probopass, to which all have very low Attack stat & Magnet Bomb doesn't fit them due to Magnet Bomb being Physical & said Pokemon have higher Special Attack than Physical Attack
Yeah, I generally consider a move "signature" if only very particular pokemon learn it as a clear limitation of the move, like it's never a TM and only pokemon with a particular flavor trait learn it. Magnemite and Probopass lines both have to do with magnets and thus get magnet bomb. So it'd count enough in my eyes. With over 1000 pokemon at the moment, it's kind of hard to come up with distinct effects for new pokemon lately. (looking at you Sparkling Aria that literally heals the opponent's burn for SOME reason...., again only good for stopping Guts with Tempo but odds are they have a flame orb anyway).
@@MarioMastar correct
Look at that triple dive animation
I ain't got all day
Place it as the worst just for that lol
the point you made on topsy turvy is spot on considering it has its uses in the balanced hackmons format to counter a lot of contrary abusers!
1000 likes! Yes, we're getting best signature move!
The one use I found for Trick-or-Treat is to pin Ghost type onto a tank about to set up Curse and watch it half kill itself for free.
11:23 that milestone got destroyed great vid
Shell Trap maybe would be better if the effect remains until it's triggered. Like, you use Shell Trap turn one, you don't get hit, turn two you attack, your opponent uses a contact movr and receives damage from Shell Trap
Funny thing about Topsy-Turvy is that I was watching a Pimpnite Video on TH-cam and he was going up against a Hacked Shiny Marshadow which used Spectral Theif and stole a +6 Attack boost, but Pimpnite had a Malamar with Topsy-Turvy and reversed the Stat Changes! It was one of the most hilarious things I've ever seen! In others words, everything has it's use, even if it's not obvious.
Even splash has a use! It can be used to waste a turn, which might, in theory, help if the opponent is holding a life orb and knows something like counter.
Trick or Treat was top teir for a moment in VGC. Paired with Tyranitar it removed its fighting weakness and allowed dark attacks to hit for weakness.
4:05 there's a third one, actually (however, I think it's not a signature move)
Soak is a Water type move which adds the Water typing to the chosen mon
I feel like Smelling Salts might be far worse than Barrage, however it's technically not a signature move. Still tho. It's so insanely bad.
It’s 70-140BP and on many different lines
Some of these moves are really fun to play With in BH. My friend's favourite set was Prankster Zygarde-C with Electrify
Triple Kick is actually pretty great when paired with Technician.
The move hits 3 times with 10/20/30 base power, but Technician boosts that to 15/30/45. What you're left with is a Fighting-Type move with 80 base power, that is is boosted by STAB, AND bypasses Sturdy/Focus Sash/Substitute. Yes each strike has a 10% chance to miss, but if Hitmontop is holding a Wide Lens, then the accuracy for both Triple Kick AND Triple Axel becomes 99% for each strike.
It's probably not the most optimal for competitive, but Triple Axel kicks ass in a casual playthrough. It pays for itself with the amount of Geodude you end up fighting lol
Topsy turvy is my favorite move, so useful, "oh, did you just spend 3 turns sword dancing? TOO BAD SUCKA! Funny, cool, weirdo move i love with all my soul just ruined your day, also you spammed defense boost moves, sorry, but you now get spanked by night slash!"
I disagree with your ice type and rock type options. Tar shot isn't great, but it has utility by lowering accuracy and making them be hit harder by fire moves. To me, if you're going to say roar of time is terrible because it's a hyper beam variant, then Rock Wrecker from Rhyperior I feel is the choice. As for ice, I'd say Ice ball. I know it’s not exactly a signature move anymore based on your criteria, but still
Rock wrecker isn't a bad choice. I think I didn't really look at it because it was a signature move for 1 generation and then Dweble/Crustle had access to it by level up since gen 5.
Ice ball wasn't considered since a few lines had access via breeding in the same generation while others via level up a few generations later. Still a solid choice though if we are counting moves that were once "signature".
I've found great success in 1v1s using a gimmick stall porygon2 set with conversion 2 on it. Most pokemon tend to run choice items, so resisting whatever move it uses can go a long way.
I remember one time where I domed an OU tier leader/mod in gen 7 with Turonator, dude didn't know it got shell smash and he had no answer after I had something else chew through it lol
Z-trick-or-treats gives +1 to all stats and was quite fun to play with in low tier single ^^
One time I was playing Pokemon sword and I got dairy lock from metronome and it crashed
Fairy
He always dunks on Silk Trap even though most people say it’s at least better than Kings Shield
Hehe at least it's more about Spidops than the move itself, which isn't bad at all, it's just even Spidops has limited reasons to use it, but I think it more says how good the other bug signature moves are if Twinneedle is second place and it's not bad at all (for a bug move and in the era of breaking subs/focus sashes).
3:07 Z-tot is pretty insane for gimmicky teams
I honestly didn’t even know Barrage existed until Sword and Shield.
Tar shot is for switch reads. It leaves your opponents incoming mon in a position where even if they could have easily tanked a fire attack now they cant and if they stay in and kill your mon they have to face your next pokemon at a speed deficit putting them at tempo loss at best and leaving an opening for you to set up at worst. It’s not good but that’s what it’s for.
P2 very, very rarely uses Conversion 2 in gen 3 to counter trap Dugtrio and Magneton. Dugtrio it can trap anyway with recover spam or ice beam, but conversion 2 can make it easier to come out at 100% health (also 2 crits can ruin your trap) and adds the potential to trap magneton which you normally can’t threaten, but can sit on certain sets forever as a ground type. I’ve seen a cursed set with Conversion 2/Flash to sit on and cripple Dug/Mag and allow trace Gardevoir to come in and set up on after…
Forest's Curse is actually perfect in Double Battles if used on your ally that can learn Grass moves
Another guy commented that it gives you the Grass types immunity to powder moves too which I didn’t think of and is good against spore users.
@@MattBudYT true, I didn't think that it also nullifies powder-based moves......
I did say that the move I mentioned greatly fits for Pokemon that can learn Grass moves, mostly Fire-type Pokemon, since most of them can learn Solar Beam
@@kennethaninon6913oh that's nice, they get a stab on Solarbeam and also lose their Water weakness.
@@TaLeng2023 true, it's to make Water attacks neutral to Fire, thanks to Forest's Curse
i knew this list was doomed when sparkling aria was put as the worst signature move for water
Topsy Turvy is slept on. Give it to literally any other Kraken-like mon and it would be OP.
What a video! Like and sub for you, with high quality videos like this one this channel will grow.
Sparkling Aria (at least until Gen 9 cuz now Lapras gets it) is even more useless on Primarina because of its hidden ability liquid voice and it having hyper voice, which is the same move except it doesn’t cure burns and doesn’t hurt your opponent.
Would be fun if Ion Deluge could make an opponent trigger lightning rod.
I had one of the trolly-ist Umbreons in gen 6 and 7 thanks to Trick or Treat and Snatch.
just hearing what fairy lock does, the only use case I can think of for it is to use perish song, switch in klefki on 2nd last turn, and then prankster fairy lock on last turn
i could see a potential use for sparkling aria: to use against pokemon with flame orb guts. but it would have to be faster, and i'm not so sure about that base 60 speed...
in defense of electrify, you could use it on 2 turn/charge attacks to lessen the blow. of course, you would still need to be faster, but i can see it being useable in certain situations,
Despite being a very bad move in the main games, barrage it's pretty op in mistery dungeon games
for the bug type move not being powder i'm kinda thrown off, then again, it's not like anyone at all remembers it because who would use a vivillion that much and teach it that specific move lmao
Any move that disables the opponent in some way but only for one turn, I automatically consider to be bad moves. Like Protect, yeah you are protected from the next move, but you are also wasting your turn to use this move, so really all you did was make the battle take longer.
Forest curse is a KEY move on my doubles team
Kingdra needs sheer force if stats are not revised. But if it has pseudo legendary stats, then it should have Drizzle since Tyranitar has Sandstream If not, Mega Launcher, Tinted Lens, Merciless or Unaware are also great options.
Topsy turvey is what holds some BH meta games together
Topsy Turvy seems like it would be great in a format like Balanced Hackmons, given the extreme boosting moves available
20:55 why would I use shelter over acid armor? Simple, only Hisuian sliggoo/goodra get them even if it is just a re-skin.
I guess acid armors more pp is a valid excuse but still.
What about Kyurem’s 65BP glaciate?
That’s better icy wind which is a popular move in VGC. Targets both opponents lowering their speed 1 stage each.