Lancia's Deadly Delta Was Too Fast For Rally

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ย. 2024
  • Find out your car's hidden history: www.carvertica...
    Delta was a name worn by 2 cars very important to the history of rally. The first was a Group B monster, quite possible the fastest rally car the world had ever seen, and a car that shook the sport to its very core, arguably acting as the impetus to bring an end to the entire class. Then the Group A follow up didn’t just seize the torch but used it to light up every rally stage on the continent, over and over again. This is the story of Lancia’s famous, and infamous Delta rally cars.
    Written by: Fred Knight
    Edited by: JD Minny ( @jdminny )
    Join the Discord: / discord
    Thanks for watching, I hope you enjoyed the video, if you did, be sure to like it, and subscribe to @automobilsitic for more videos about cars and racing!
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    #racing #cars #rally

ความคิดเห็น • 396

  • @automobilistic
    @automobilistic  ปีที่แล้ว +37

    Find out your car's hidden history using CarVertical: www.carvertical.com/gb/landing/v3?b=1e4c9523&a=Automobilistic&voucher=automobilistic
    or use discount code "automobilistic" for 10% off!

    • @Eduardo_Espinoza
      @Eduardo_Espinoza ปีที่แล้ว

      So the car fell off of the mountain side because of the lack of railing and it is the car's fault?

    • @automobilistic
      @automobilistic  ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@Eduardo_Espinoza did you watch literally any of the video leading up to and/or after that point?

    • @Eduardo_Espinoza
      @Eduardo_Espinoza ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes, but I have attention problems.@@automobilistic

    • @dictumobiter1365
      @dictumobiter1365 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      ​@@automobilisticbrilliant video...👍

    • @scottl.1568
      @scottl.1568 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      ​@damarfadlan9251You mean since SEGA Rally Championship in the arcade (1994) 😅

  • @derimeri21
    @derimeri21 ปีที่แล้ว +396

    Kankkunen said to his co-driver when 1987 began in testing: "It's going to be a long year."
    They were used to Group B power, so that's why it was going to be long. He also claims that he drove the car one handed and all out in some test.
    His co-driver said druing one test: "Press the damn accelerator." Juha responds: "I have been flooring it for awhile."
    Source? Teknavi interview. 50th birthday of Juha Kankkunen.
    It was a episode where Juha and Markku Alén were going through memories.

    • @pekkokuopanportti6859
      @pekkokuopanportti6859 ปีที่แล้ว +37

      It was either Kankkunen or Alén who joked about the 1987 cars that you could drive them one-handed and use the other hand to wave at the crowds.

    • @vaenii5056
      @vaenii5056 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      The Group A cars in 1987 were also quite underpowered, even Lancia Delta producing only around 240 hp.

    • @alanb9337
      @alanb9337 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Kankkunen did a regular interview/ column with Martin Holmes for motoring publications in the 1980s. Juha's early impressions of the Group A Lancia Delta after the 3rd wrc event Portugal (4th place) were first there were the burning paint odours of the new car and by the end of the event burning oil odours from the engine. Rhorl said when they tested the Group B car at Bauxites (Acropolis stage) it was over 200 km/h and the Group A Audi 200 Quattro was 170km/h.

    • @johnmichaels4330
      @johnmichaels4330 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      That must have been so disappointing and maddening for those drivers.

    • @ricardopereira2746
      @ricardopereira2746 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @johnmichaels4330 Absolutely. As I said in other comment, if there wasn't for the bad, irresponsible, life threatening behaviour of the public and the organisers not willing to put more money into security, as we see nowadays, this wouldn't have happened. Of course Attílio and Henri's deaths had to be taken into consideration, but danger (in the competitors view) has and still is part of the game. Stopping Group B and not going forward with Group S may seem to have avoided more deaths, but how many deaths we had following that, either in group A, N, Kitcars. It was a stupid decision to ban cars and not putting more work in crowd control. Nowadays I go to see WRC in Fafe (Portugal) and there's still huge crowds as back in the day. Just better placed and controlled. It has been my opinion throughout the years and yet nobody really managed to convince me otherwise.

  • @JoshuaNicoll
    @JoshuaNicoll ปีที่แล้ว +224

    Man, group B was already insane, group S would have been something truely special.

    • @thesis4349
      @thesis4349 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +24

      Or more deadly.

    • @daveb4128
      @daveb4128 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +19

      And yet current rally cars are now setting even faster times on those same stages that Group B raced on - technology has marched on!

    • @bassblowbackrecords8932
      @bassblowbackrecords8932 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +15

      ​@daveb4128 That may be true but group b will always be the best age for rally the technology was revolutionary and the fans were more into the sport than ever

    • @pixelnazgul
      @pixelnazgul 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Have them use no guide, and no knowledge of track. Then you'll see that rally is not real driving, they're just flying through it by slight corrections.

    • @pixelnazgul
      @pixelnazgul 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Groups S is called Paris-Dakar.

  • @4zkin
    @4zkin ปีที่แล้ว +344

    you should do more about rallying, i really like your rally vids

    • @davidpistek6241
      @davidpistek6241 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Great stuff, pikes peak would be great too

    • @AlexWeiss94
      @AlexWeiss94 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      I 100% agree

    • @lukedanielgalon1596
      @lukedanielgalon1596 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@davidpistek6241hunter moon does that
      And trust me you can believe in him

    • @JohnDoe-vy5hh
      @JohnDoe-vy5hh 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Ya

  • @martinhubinette2254
    @martinhubinette2254 ปีที่แล้ว +169

    Toivonen reportedly complained that the chassis ended up feeling very loose due to the lack of structural stiffness/sturdiness. That made the Delta S4 harder to drive.
    On tarmac it was described as vague. Gravel and snow felt better. The looser the surface the better Toivonen felt it performed.

    • @johngeren1053
      @johngeren1053 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      "Reportedly": there's a lot of that in comments and videos about S4 and 037 for some reason. The main complaint Toivonen and Cresto had was that the S4 accelerated so fast that there was no time to call out the pace notes between curves. They had to completely revise their system of making and reading them

    • @sandromartins20
      @sandromartins20 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      And with all that, the 205 was still better

    • @johngeren1053
      @johngeren1053 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      @@sandromartins20 Maybe the Evolution 2 205 versus the first iteration of the S4 was better without Toicvonen and Cresto, but in the last rally of the season the Lancia was sufficiently developed to allow a slightly past his prime. Alen to beat Kankunnen at the height of his talents on neutral ground, with no excuses.

    • @toivonencresto
      @toivonencresto ปีที่แล้ว

      This was at the beginning of the Season, not in May when the car passed some development and was way more easy to drive.

    • @toivonencresto
      @toivonencresto ปีที่แล้ว

      never.@@sandromartins20

  • @gabrielnicholascaparas9003
    @gabrielnicholascaparas9003 ปีที่แล้ว +129

    I think the Delta is remembered for two things, one of the most iconic cars in rallying history and the car that ended Group B (due to Henri Toivonen and Sergio Cresto's crash. RIP to these two legends.)

    • @fraserwright9482
      @fraserwright9482 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      The ford RS200 crash in Portugal that killed spectators was more structural to Group B demise, Toivonen who is buried in Espoo was more symbolic. Marku noted the S4 has no brakes and unlike the old 037 which felt like a glove, the S4 as though someone else (spiritually the hand of god) was guiding it not him. The Pug was easier to drive, hence why it won that season. He has a Pug in his collection as do the other Rally drivers.

    • @gabrielnicholascaparas9003
      @gabrielnicholascaparas9003 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@fraserwright9482 speaking of the ford, was it harder to drive than the lacia or is it the other way around?

    • @alexisborden3191
      @alexisborden3191 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@gabrielnicholascaparas9003 Kinda, but in different ways, the Lancia was hard to drive and fast, and the Ford was hard to drive and slow. The Ford as far as I know and imagine, was difficult to drive in a dull knife sense, in that it sucked, was easy to overdrive into a mistake. By all accounts it handled quite well, but the power delivery was bad, and the engine had no power low in the RPM range.

    • @GB-vn1tf
      @GB-vn1tf ปีที่แล้ว +6

      ​@@gabrielnicholascaparas9003the Ford was still under development at the beginning and the Lancia had been a progression. Ford had only started a few rallies with the RS200 in an attempt to join in on the group B series as it was hugely popular. As for the Peugeot Jean Todt created the ultimate group B team just as he did at Ferrari in F1.

    • @GB-vn1tf
      @GB-vn1tf ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@fraserwright9482spot on.

  • @goldenageofdinosaurs7192
    @goldenageofdinosaurs7192 ปีที่แล้ว +44

    Those Group A Lancias are so freaking gorgeous, man. The Integrale Evo is one of my favorite cars ever.

  • @alexoconnell2175
    @alexoconnell2175 ปีที่แล้ว +34

    The S4 is my all time favourite car, an absolute marvel of Italian engineering.

  • @llmkursk8254
    @llmkursk8254 ปีที่แล้ว +48

    I honestly wish the proposed 300bhp version of Group S had gone through. Imagine the crazy designs, with such a “meager” power output, pushing car technology in situations that could easily damage them such as the Safari or Acropolis Rallies.
    I’d actually like to see a video on all the “proposed” Group S prototypes. I use quotation marks because rallygroupbshrine places cars like the SEAT Ibiza Bimotor, which wouldn’t have the power output but the production potential, in Group S. You could fill it out with some of the Dakar special cars, such as the legendary Porsche 959 and Peugeot 405.
    For those who actually want to race the Group S monsters, in say, video games, you’ll be hard-pressed to find official licenses of them given out, much less any not-licensed versions. The closest for normal racing games would be the Toyota MR2 222D being used for a car in Wreckfest, while for a proper rally game, Art of Rally does feature most of the rallygroupbshrine cars.
    Thank you for the excellent content, here’s to more great videos!

    • @theant9821
      @theant9821 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      I'm glad group s never happened, or the group a era would never have happened, group a was by far the greatest era for rallying.
      Not as spectacular cars but far more competitive sport and gave us some incredible road cars that could actually be bought.
      I'm only really interested in homologation cars. Hence why i couldn't care less about any of the fast cars for sale today, they've never won anything. Never done anything worth doing.
      The group b homologation cars were just unobtainable. But the spectacle compensated for that.
      But with group a, the close fought battles that had made group 4 so good resumed. And we could buy one ourselves again.
      In reality during the group b era, the British rally championship was far more exciting than the wrc, Jimmy Mcrae vs Russell Brookes both in the Opel Manta 400 was incredible.

    • @retardray5701
      @retardray5701 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@theant9821 I agree, after the initial shock of sudden change, group A proved to be a good deal for manufacturers, drivers and fans alike - being safe and similar to road cars, but also providing more exciting road cars for normal folks to drive. It also worked well with the cheaper group N, with the same base cars being able to be used in both categories.
      Group S feels like WRC, but 10 years in advance and with probably little relevance to road cars. They would've been cool cars though, make no mistake. But given that cost control wasn't much of a thing back then, it's likely that it'd become too expensive really fast. After all, apart from safety, another reason for FISA to plan a replacement for group B was that there were one or two manufacturers with winning cars - others were either spending millions to catch-up someday (Ford and Rover), entering the few rounds where they had a chance (Toyota in Safari) or just plain giving up (Audi with the front-engine Quattro).

    • @GB-vn1tf
      @GB-vn1tf ปีที่แล้ว +2

      ​@@theant9821but group B increased the profile of rallying more than anything which allowed the future of the sport to be healthy. The subaru impreza of mitsibushi evo probably would never have existed without group B.

  • @hardyherrmann4154
    @hardyherrmann4154 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Mai 2 1986 was the darkest day in history of Rallye, as a German who visits Corsica for over 40 years now (since I was a boy with my parents), I regularly visit the plcae, where the desater happened......the trees are much higher now but the fire traces are still visible - RIP Henri & Sergio, you'll remain unforgotten 😞

  • @codemy666
    @codemy666 ปีที่แล้ว +92

    While i love the insanity if Group B, i must say i kind of enjoy watching Group A alot more

    • @xxNismo-
      @xxNismo- ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Yeah I agree. Group A is my favourite era of rally

    • @palupa42playz43
      @palupa42playz43 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I love the group A era as well.

    • @bowlock9901
      @bowlock9901 ปีที่แล้ว

      It was a crazy era, don't forget group C too.

  • @santsa9042
    @santsa9042 ปีที่แล้ว +20

    No way, I just finished watching your video on the 037, released 6 months ago, and wondered: I wonder if he has a video on the S4? And you do!

  • @BOABModels
    @BOABModels ปีที่แล้ว +14

    Great rundown. There are stories that Toivonen suffered blackouts but kept it hidden through fears he would have to stop driving.
    The irony of the Group B ban is that by 1990, Group A was faster due to the cars having better handling and traction.

    • @vaenii5056
      @vaenii5056 ปีที่แล้ว

      Sounds like a story Lancia would spread lmao.

    • @originalforgery
      @originalforgery 24 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Group B was slower than Group A...?
      Whatever you say.....

  • @jhypyro
    @jhypyro ปีที่แล้ว +11

    an automobilistic video about lancia delta s4, I can rest in peace now.

  • @johngeren1053
    @johngeren1053 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    An interesting fact about the S4's engine is that it is not derived from the venerable iron block/aluminum head Fiat twin cam used by previous Fiat and Lancia competition cars.Rather, it was cast in one piece of light alloy, like a prewar Bugstti. No head gasket to blow if it overheats or over boosts. Valve work must require some ingenuity.

  • @alfredio
    @alfredio ปีที่แล้ว +9

    I'm glad this channel exists

  • @RegenXF1
    @RegenXF1 ปีที่แล้ว +25

    You should do more about rallying it's really interesting I really like these type of videos keep it up

    • @xr.spedtech
      @xr.spedtech ปีที่แล้ว +1

      That's cool but ...
      Too much of one thing ...
      Is good for nothing.

    • @RegenXF1
      @RegenXF1 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@xr.spedtech i know

  • @Quellodeltabacco
    @Quellodeltabacco 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    When Italian engineering expresses itself. The Sistine Chapel of Motorsport.🇮🇹

  • @npne1253
    @npne1253 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Now you have so much rally focused content, you should do an episode on the modern 2017-2021 era of WRCars, those machines, are to simply put, what LMP1 is to Group C.
    Absolutely incredible cornering speed and grip, they're like prototypes for the dirt.

  • @xiter8868
    @xiter8868 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    My father was part of the team that was developing the engine of the S4, ECV1 and 2 in the mid '80s.
    In test sessions some engines were reaching 1500 HP and monstrous torque as well.
    This is what Lancia was aiming for future evolution steps of the S4.

  • @Vexcilla
    @Vexcilla ปีที่แล้ว +12

    The amount of quality and time that you put into your videos shows that you truly do care about the subject.(btw I love the thumbnails)

  • @carlmorton2556
    @carlmorton2556 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Very well narrated and put together I was a mechanic on the Lombard rallies 85 to 87 and witnessed these changes,sadly group b was axed but while they were here wow what a group you could tell which vehicle was coming just by the sound ,Quattro,Manta 400,Cosworth R/S 500,LANCIA,and even Tony Pond in the v8 rover Vitese it will never be the same I had the opportunity to ride in an RS 200 on a special stage and it was mind blowing

  • @405conventional
    @405conventional ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This channel is criminally underrated.

  • @Barry.ONeill
    @Barry.ONeill ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Henry was sick with a flu he shouldn't of been driving that day. RIP Legend my Mums up ther now and can finally meet you

  • @davesiddons8921
    @davesiddons8921 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    I see a Delta and I’m there, one of the greatest cars of all time

  • @stoplookingatmeplease1230
    @stoplookingatmeplease1230 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    My family actually saw Attilio Bettega's last rally in his 037 in Italy just before he died, I own a 1985 Lancia Delta LX , love polluting the air with it

  • @TheMailman1303
    @TheMailman1303 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Now this is quality race history content. I look forward to watching more of your videos!

  • @nickknee3515
    @nickknee3515 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    A very well done deep dive into Lanicas history, thank you.

  • @iuopunderstandyourjokes9914
    @iuopunderstandyourjokes9914 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    The regular lancia delta looks fire in my opinion. Shoutout to the designer. I don't know who it is but it's probably giorgetto giugiaro

  • @8888UNIVERSE8888
    @8888UNIVERSE8888 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Finally. A story about my beautiful Delta =)))
    Thank you for your work!

  • @rushilgandevia6204
    @rushilgandevia6204 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This is one of your best videos yet

  • @Barry.ONeill
    @Barry.ONeill ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I still wish they didn't ban group b or group S stiffer spectator control and strick roll cage rules and fuel tank rules we could of saved rallying so many manufacturers where about to enter.

  • @pjludda4323
    @pjludda4323 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Ahhh...The 1980's...Where they lost what ever little since they had, so FISA's bloodlust could result in non-existent safety standards for practically everyone...
    REALLY surprised that the complete disregard for safety hadn't resulted in an out-right ban on motorsports in general. Still, some of the most epic cars came from that era, but it was a pure bloodsport and lots of blood was indeed spilt as a result of this.

    • @michaelkeha
      @michaelkeha ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Because people back then accepted the risk hell the only motorsport that still does MotoGP and that's cause you literally can't remove the danger the Isle of Man is the last truly special race left in the world because of it

  • @ktvcars
    @ktvcars ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Such a legendary car, and a Legendary channel in the making! Great video and story!

  • @ricardopereira2746
    @ricardopereira2746 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Damn just erased a detailed comment on what I wanted to address: in Portugal '86 event, the winner was Joaquim Moutinho just as you said. As a classic rally nerd I am, just wanted to make a small correction: he was driving a factory spec R5 Turbo "Tour de Corse", not a Maxi Turbo. I don't think there was ever a Maxi Turbo driven by a Portuguese pilot. Moutinho has passed away last year. He and Joaquim Santos, who drove the factory spec Rs200 involved in the fatal accident that took 3 lives and made dozens of injuries (by the way, the cause of that crash was him trying to avoid a couple of idiots who stood in front of the car, just before that fatal corner, at around 200km/h). Those two were the best Portuguese drivers back in the day, and from the following years. It wasn't by luck their teams invested in factory spec cars. They were backed up by the Portuguese official distributors of Renault and Ford, respectively.
    Thank you so much for your great content and excellent narration. It's obvious that you put great effort in the channel. Keep up the good work. From a 45 years old classic rally nerd :)

  • @corvetteguy2223
    @corvetteguy2223 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    So many videos on rally start and end with group b, thanks for telling the whole delta story.

  • @emanueljj
    @emanueljj ปีที่แล้ว +5

    All Lancia team and technology went to Alfa Romeo where they won the DTM

  • @fossilfueled27
    @fossilfueled27 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Fantastic video, a really great watch.

  • @andredornelles8014
    @andredornelles8014 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    FINALLY an English speaking rally enthusiast that can properly say Lancia. You deserve the Like sir

  • @noahman27
    @noahman27 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I just finished watching the new movie Race for Glory: Audi Vs Lancia. It was a big let down. Flat flat flat story telling. I came to youtube to do some research into the story that inspired the film and I ended up here. Gotta say, you did a great job on this video. Interesting, well put together and exciting. Keep it coming!!! Great work.

  • @DaRealFantomas
    @DaRealFantomas 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Man, do I love my Delta even more now, after watching the video.

  • @car-eNthusiastV8DFV
    @car-eNthusiastV8DFV ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Mate great video. You should definitely do more on other rally cars!

  • @davidpistek6241
    @davidpistek6241 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    The footage is epic what a great video

  • @nicholascanjuga6000
    @nicholascanjuga6000 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thanks for an awesome video on my favorite group b car!

  • @piotrgancewski6736
    @piotrgancewski6736 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I absolutely love your Rally videos, especially as there aren't many this type of video about my favorite ever rally car is fantastic, make more Rallying videos as those are really good ones

  • @gavinc.morrison1147
    @gavinc.morrison1147 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    the idea that fisa wanted to make group b faster is absolutely insane

    • @tomba33
      @tomba33 ปีที่แล้ว

      🤔

  • @mondodimotori
    @mondodimotori ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nice touch the old photos of Lancia building in Turin during constructions.

  • @aquaisuseful682
    @aquaisuseful682 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I wish Group S came to be, basically LMP cars on dirt. So so cool

  • @moufidyh4456
    @moufidyh4456 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    LANCIA definitely was a legend in the world of rallying but this not the same when we talk about the financial situation of the company today most of the people don't even know what is LANCIA this is so disappointed

  • @toml5451
    @toml5451 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great run down. Jolly Club actually did take the Delta to WRC victory for the 1992 season, as Lancia pulled out at the end of the 1991 season.

  • @operaatio5117
    @operaatio5117 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I heard that the panels in S4 were so weak that you could floor the pedal literally through the floor and it would get stuck.

    • @automobilistic
      @automobilistic  ปีที่แล้ว +3

      yes I even mention that exact point in the video

    • @GeorgeTsiros
      @GeorgeTsiros ปีที่แล้ว

      @@automobilistic the pedal did not have a stop? ... how... ?

    • @joaogaspar9184
      @joaogaspar9184 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      It did stop but the when it stopped the throttle was stuck like the driver was going all out ​@@GeorgeTsiros

  • @jsaundersmusic
    @jsaundersmusic ปีที่แล้ว +1

    that is a crazy good video you've got there, fair play!

  • @johngeren1053
    @johngeren1053 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Reports immediately after the Corsica crash were that the fuel tank was punctured by a broken chassis tube, not a tree branch.

  • @SimsRacingDesign
    @SimsRacingDesign ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Great videos! Absolutely brilliant stuff.
    Suggestion: It would be interesting to see videos on Prodrive or the Belgian Kronos Racing. Both having tremendous success in circuit racing as well as rallying.

  • @gafrers
    @gafrers ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Love the Delta S4
    ECV and ECV2 Triflux engine ❤❤🔥🔥

    • @falt.a7350
      @falt.a7350 ปีที่แล้ว

      But I think only few guys knows what is a triflux engine....
      Limoni- Lombardo engineers
      And Beppe Fontana preparator....😢
      Greets from Italy an Italian former mountain trooper Alpini 🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹 genX 😂😂😂

    • @gafrers
      @gafrers ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@falt.a7350 Yes, very light info on wiki. But if you search you can read quite a lot about it and knowing Italian is the key to it. Trifulx was insane.
      Alpini Rules 🇮🇹🇮🇹

    • @falt.a7350
      @falt.a7350 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@gafrers Yes bro.... But if you want... searching for Beppe Fontana garage or triflux engine on yt...
      You can find a few videos about this genius widow.... She detained all the aluminium block of ecv2 inside her garage and many collectors "flirting" with her family if she maybe want sell all garage with all the unfinished cars and chassis... Whit secret deal.... Research on yt my friend!!!!!
      Again greets from Italy 🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹
      One time Alpini, forever Alpini

    • @falt.a7350
      @falt.a7350 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@gafrers I forget.... Not in English
      Searching for..... Motore triflux or lancia ecv2 test motore gruppo S
      There are only Italian channel....
      Greets again...
      "Ferro inique ad eccelsa" 🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹

    • @falt.a7350
      @falt.a7350 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Sorry..🤗 is Beppe Volta ( Fontana was another Abarth preparator)
      And engineer was Claudio Lombardi....🤗

  • @johngeren1053
    @johngeren1053 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    There's a vid on YT called something like 'Italian rally navigators talk about Sergio Cresto'.("Born to Be a Star") It is in Italian and I don't know whether there are english subtitles available, but it clarifies most of the misconceptions and myths about the S4 and the fatal accident. Of course no one is able to answer the question of 'What was the immediate cause of the accident?'

  • @ramadhanisme7
    @ramadhanisme7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Well that's rally for you, F1 is more technical while rallying is a combination of technical and guts

  • @nickpoma9901
    @nickpoma9901 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video man! I would love to see more rally stuff!

  • @pooroldnostradamus
    @pooroldnostradamus ปีที่แล้ว +1

    A superb bit of motoring journalism!

  • @skylineXpert
    @skylineXpert ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You can basicly see this years tour de france how crazy the crowds were on the mountain stages.
    I got a flashback to this...

  • @jimbrown5091
    @jimbrown5091 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Can you imagine a 4wd 037? 😊

    • @JK061996
      @JK061996 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The late Beppe Volta developed a 037 4WD-H back in 2012, it had an electric motor on the front axle

    • @jimbrown5091
      @jimbrown5091 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@JK061996 Noooooooooo!😣

    • @francouz23
      @francouz23 ปีที่แล้ว

      S4 is literally 4wd 037

    • @jimbrown5091
      @jimbrown5091 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@francouz23 except it's a "Delta sedan"

  • @JohnCharb87
    @JohnCharb87 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    Lancia Martini Racing would live on...in videogames. The Lancia Delta HF Integrale was featured prominently in the popular Sega Rally Championship for the Arcade and Sega Saturn. Also in the Gran Turismo series.

    • @cwj2733
      @cwj2733 ปีที่แล้ว

      the 037 stradale, delta hf integrale evo, s4, stratos stradale and fulvia coupe rally are in fh5 😃

    • @joaogaspar9184
      @joaogaspar9184 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The s4 in I the grand turismo 4

  • @doggSMK
    @doggSMK 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    One of the (if not THE) best race car channels. Thank you for this. Oh and Lancia was my first car, still in my ❤. Imagine of FIA (or whatever it was back then) put the crowds in safe places and enforced cars to have 1.2 tons minimum weight, so they where safer. Group B could still be here, along with Toivonen maybe...
    PS: There is a video of a test of the S4 engine, making 1000hp on an engine dyno. 🤯🤯🤯

  • @captainbarbossa5201
    @captainbarbossa5201 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I personally think that the Delta S4 was too powerful for it's own good (like that one time Jeremy Clarkson tested the Mercedes Brabus SL - it was nigh uncontrollable). Out of the 12 rallies in 1986 (not counting Sanremo for obvious scummy reasons), the 205 T16 E2 hit first place 6 times whereas the Delta S4 hit first place 3 times - the 205 T16 has lower horsepower and was only turbocharged, unlike the twin-turbo S4.
    Even in Sanremo, Peugeot won the rally but since Lancia said "ThEy HaVe iLlEgAl sIdE SkIrTs !!1!!11!" the win was instead given to Lancia. It wasn't until further investigation when the FIA concluded that Peugeot never even had (edit: illegal side-skirts) side-skirts in the Sanremo rally, let alone any of the other rallies prior - leading to the nullification of the Sanremo results.

    • @johngeren1053
      @johngeren1053 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      What? You can see the skirts in photos and videos. Peugeot claimed that they were to deflect stones from hitting and damaging the underside - probably not true - and that the skirts were too small to be very effective in providing down force - probably true. At any rate, Paris accepted Peugeot's explanation and restored the San Remo points.That reversal was announced immediately after Alen had won the last rally of the season and thought he had won the Championship, which must have seemed cruel to him.

    • @captainbarbossa5201
      @captainbarbossa5201 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@johngeren1053 If the skirts weren't illegal to begin with, and since they did exist long before the Sanremo rally (not to the illegal extent that Lancia claims), why wasn't Peugeot disqualified earlier in ANY of the other races prior to Sanremo? They were the SAME skirts for the past TEN rallies, and only in Sanremo were they deemed illegal by LANCIA themselves. It wasn't Audi, MG, Ford, Toyota, nor Renault that claimed the skirts illegal, neither did the smaller teams (Citroen, Opel, Porsche, Mazda, Volkswagen, Subaru, Skoda, and Fiat) claim them as illegal.
      Oh, but it would be too much of a COINCIDENCE that Sanremo was the ONLY ITALIAN course in the 86' championship. It would be too much of a COINCIDENCE that LANCIA is an ITALIAN car brand. It would be too much of a COINCIDENCE that LANCIA was losing to Peugeot BEFORE the Sanremo rally (Peugeot had 141 points vs Lancias 119 points in the past 10 rallies leading up to Sanremo). That's a lot of coincidences against simple side-skirts built to deflect stones from hitting the underside.
      -
      Here's another coincidence. Sanremo's chief scrutineer, Lanfranco CANESCHI, inspected a Peugeot 205T16 (Andrea Zanussi's 205T16) in the European Championship's Piancavallo rally stage seven weeks BEFORE Sanremo.
      After Caneschi's inspection on Zanussi's 205T16 in Piancavallo, he declared the car CLEAN (that includes the "side-skirts"). However, when he was asked why the same car used in Piancavallo was now illegal in Sanremo, he stated that he only checked the brakes and suspension in Piancavallo - which is a lie.
      The thing about Lanfranco Caneschi is that back in 1981, Caneschi organized a campaign who's purpose was to outlaw the Opel Ascona 400 - the first NON-ITALIAN car that won the Italian Rally Championship (IRC) in 1981. The Opel was successfully excluded in 1982, giving the championship to Ferrari in the Group 4 category.
      FISA's Technical Commission chief, Gabriele Cadringher (absent from Sanremo; on Formula 1 business), had personally advised Peugeot that the strakes were legal, and rally organisers on every event SINCE March had accepted the legality of the strakes.
      Peugeot designed the strakes to give protection against sideways impact as the fuel tanks were positioned under the seats in a vulnerable place. Similar to how the Delta S4's fuel tanks were placed, but this time, protected.
      -
      Contrary to what you said, the Sanremo points were NOT in-fact RESTORED. Instead, on December 18, 11 days after the end of the Olympus Rally (the final WRC round), the FISA Executive Committee issued the verdict to remove the whole event from the championship that year. This awarded the Makes championship to Peugeot and the Drivers title to Juha Kankkunen, instead of Lancia and Markku Alen respectively.
      Just to add to all of this, Lancia's team boss (at the time) Cesare Fiorio disagreed that Peugeot's side-skirts were illegal.
      And to add even more, quoted from Markku Alen himself in an article written by Richard Heseltine, published on "Classic & Sports Car,"
      “I still don’t know the full story of what happened,” admits Alén. “I don’t know if politics came into it, but I never understood why the Sanremo people didn’t let the Peugeots complete the rally and then throw them out.
      “It made no sense to drop them so late in the rally. By not letting them finish, and with the Peugeot team’s protest then being successful, they couldn’t simply reinstate them in the results. If they had, I might have finished second to Juha and perhaps still have won the title."

    • @johngeren1053
      @johngeren1053 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@captainbarbossa5201 The skirts were intended to tunnel airflow to the extractor under the rear of the Evolution T16. The extractors were removed when ground effects were banned following the Marc Surer crash which occured after Corsica and before San Remo.

    • @captainbarbossa5201
      @captainbarbossa5201 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@johngeren1053 Again, the side skirts that Lancia claimed "illegal" were not the same side-skirts prior to the FIA's rule re-write. IF they were the same side-skirts prior to Surer's crash, then scrutineers in the WRC would deem them illegal. The only time were deemed illegal after Surer's crash was in Sanremo, which were compliant to the new rules.

    • @johngeren1053
      @johngeren1053 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@captainbarbossa5201 "Again"? I don't recall discussing the Surer crash earlier.

  • @mohmoudfarah1897
    @mohmoudfarah1897 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Fascinating; thank you, pal!

  • @tastefullynerdy1161
    @tastefullynerdy1161 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Bro how did I not find you earlier!? Your stuff is fantastic!

  • @johngeren1053
    @johngeren1053 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Photos of the remains of the car indicate that the fuel tank was punctured by a broken tube of the crumpled, bent chassis, not "a tree branch". That was the cause reported at the time.

  • @Corgman
    @Corgman ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Deadly but beautiful

  • @Rentta
    @Rentta ปีที่แล้ว +2

    There were 2 considered specs for group s. Lancia also had ECV-2 which looked nothing like any Lancia road cars.

  • @autiomaaelokuva-forsakenla2337
    @autiomaaelokuva-forsakenla2337 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Amazingly great videos, well done

  • @kristijanbarisic4783
    @kristijanbarisic4783 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I recently came across your channel and i love it. Is there any chance of you doing a video about toyota minolta 88c-v. Keep up the good work.

    • @automobilistic
      @automobilistic  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Glad you're enjoying the videos! I looked into the 88C-V, but there's not really enough there for a full length video. I think I will instead do a segment on it within a larger video at some point

  • @RobJaskula
    @RobJaskula ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Tony Pond taking third in the debuting Metro 6R4 at the 85 RAC was a great drive!

  • @ivaneurope
    @ivaneurope 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    From what I've watched and heard from this video (or at least my interpertation of it) is that by trying to cut corners when designing the Delta S4, Lancia also inavertedly sealed the fate of the Group B regulations. But Lancia now also had another car in the pipeline ready to conquer Group A in rallying.
    As for the crowds during Group B's years - the lessons learned from the 1955 Le Mans disaster and the 1961 Italian Grand Prix, which both took the lives of drivers and spectators, were more or less applied only on closed circuit racing. With Group B breeding more or less monsters that could give even Formula 1 cars a run for their money, it was a ticking time bomb anyway and it was only a matter of a time that a disaster like that in Portugal to happen.

  • @TheGreatIndoors1979
    @TheGreatIndoors1979 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    23:11 That was a smooth edit.

  • @Whiterabbit124
    @Whiterabbit124 ปีที่แล้ว

    Your voice is quite unique. You sound like middle-aged BBC broadcaster. I love it

  • @janiandelin93
    @janiandelin93 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    0:11 Certainly not the fastest rally car ever made. Maybe the most powerful one, but the present WRC cars are way faster though. In fact, the the latest Group A cars were already faster on the stages than Group B cars, despite having less power

    • @automobilistic
      @automobilistic  ปีที่แล้ว +6

      I did say "in its day" right before that... you're right that within a couple of years group A was faster. My point was that it was likely the fastest that had ever been made up to that point in history.

    • @janiandelin93
      @janiandelin93 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@automobilistic Totally my bad. Sorry!

  • @giovannieusebi955
    @giovannieusebi955 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I feel that an interesting rally car to go over would be the Toyota Celica, that removed the plate resrictor. Great video as always

  • @JK061996
    @JK061996 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    In a tragic coincidence the fatal accidents of Bettega and Toivonen/Cresto occurred exactly one year apart, on the 2nd of May. Both cars had the number 4 as well

  • @charliesargent6225
    @charliesargent6225 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Lancia has been very successful in motorsport over the years, and mostly in the arena of rallying. Prior to the forming of the World Rally Championship (WRC), Lancia took the final International Championship for Manufacturers title with the Fulvia in 1972. In the WRC, they remain the most statistically successful marque (despite having withdrawn at the end of the 1993 season), winning constructors' titles with the Stratos (1974, 1975 and 1976), the 037 (1983) and the Delta (six consecutive wins from 1987 to 1992). The Delta is also the most successful individual model designation ever to compete in rallying. All this gave Lancia a total of 11 Championships over the years and 15 European Championship from 1969 to 1992

  • @raimonlopez5255
    @raimonlopez5255 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I love everything about this video
    Really nice man 🔥🔥

  • @bowlock9901
    @bowlock9901 ปีที่แล้ว

    This was a pleasure to watch, your going to do well young man, thanks for the content, earned a sub from me.

  • @ThauVictor
    @ThauVictor ปีที่แล้ว

    excellent video, congratulations directly from a Brazillian fan of rally

  • @mrkipling2201
    @mrkipling2201 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The drivers had told the FIA that something needed to be done about the spectators at the Rally of Portugal. It was only a matter of time before a bad crash occurred, injuring and killing spectators. Due to how close they would get to the cars speeding through. Apparently fingers and blood stains were found in the intakes of cars, because the spectators would attempt to touch the cars driving through. So although it was a very tragic incident in Portugal, it wasn't surprising at all.

  • @kimmoj2570
    @kimmoj2570 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Toyotas hottests driver, Juha Kankkunen was released easily from Toyota to Peugeot in late 1985. Ole Andesson just asked that he would return when Toyota have 4 wheel drive car. And actually Kankkunen DID return. Gentlemanly behaviour from all, Andesson, Todt and Kankkunen.

  • @archive303
    @archive303 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    When do we get the thing we are all waiting for! Peugeot 205 T16!!

  • @tugginalong
    @tugginalong 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I’ve seen drivers being interviewed stating they refused to race some of these group b events because of the crowds

  • @RallycrossGT
    @RallycrossGT ปีที่แล้ว

    awesome video as always!!!! can we have something about Rallycross in the future?

  • @deanthefish314
    @deanthefish314 ปีที่แล้ว

    Cracking vid 👌🏾

  • @Vilphy37
    @Vilphy37 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Ive been waiting for this

  • @ViperRacing7
    @ViperRacing7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Another well put together and fantastic video, with rallying as well as racing being the main gist here I'd love to see a Mitsubishi story regarding their domination in the Late 90's if its doable and Tommi Makkinen's run to 4 back to back WRC titles as well as his rivalry with Colin McRae 😁

  • @Polly-f7o
    @Polly-f7o 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Using the power of decision gives you the capacity to get past any excuse to change any and every part of your life in an instant.

  • @Tacko14
    @Tacko14 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    It always struck me as the most interesting time in rallying, when grB was suddenly out and grA was the only class going. Nobody knew what to do, but Lancia had just the thing to show the way forward. It was also HEAVY. But hey.
    Everyone was scratching their heads as to what shall we do now? And for a moment, it was like 1970-ish. Nobody had the answer yet, just like old times. Nice!
    Me, I’m a grN fan. Just get a line product car, see what you can do. Win on Sunday sell on Monday gets a twist when you’re racing true factory spec cars. It makes the constructors sit up and pay attention to what they’re selling us irl

  • @CPS2
    @CPS2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video my man! 👍
    I took a shot whenever you said "Larncher" as well, that made it ever more gooder!

  • @JonteTheMan1
    @JonteTheMan1 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I think it's worth to mention that Toivonen and Cresto weren't the last people to have their lives taken away by the Deadly Delta. Four years later in 1989 driver Fiorio lost control of his Delta and sadly struck and killed driver and co-driver Lars-Erik Thorp and Bertil-Rune Rehnfeldt while they were spectating. RIP.

  • @Sweet-6468
    @Sweet-6468 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    First! Also my favourite rally car is the S4 and its brother, the 037

    • @derrickstorm6976
      @derrickstorm6976 ปีที่แล้ว

      More like a distant cousin

    • @falt.a7350
      @falt.a7350 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      More like a mother 😂😂😂😂
      It's pretty accurate...
      Greets from Italy 🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹🇮🇹

  • @nicholasc1781
    @nicholasc1781 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great topics man!

  • @pixelghostclyde8717
    @pixelghostclyde8717 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Even if the fuel tank was thicker, it would have done no good to Toivonen and Cresto. Modern racecars use flexible antipuncture fuel bladders for a reason...

    • @automobilistic
      @automobilistic  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      its true that there's no guarantee, but a thicker fuel tank, and crucially, a protective plate would have reduced the odds of a fire (impossible to say by how much)

    • @pixelghostclyde8717
      @pixelghostclyde8717 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@automobilistic based on my experience, I'll have to disagree on that one - I don't think it would have been very realistic to fit the Delta S4 with a rigid fuel tank thick enough to not crack on impact. And that's why eventually foam-filled fuel cells and flexible kevlar bladders completely replaced the good old-fashioned fuel tank in motorsports.
      If we assume the tank was punctured by a tree branch, a skid plate would have helped a lot more - and Lancia's choice to get rid of it always struck me as odd, as it traded a minor weight reduction for a significant decrease in reliability (and safety, but that wasn't really a primary concern these days...).

    • @egoalter1276
      @egoalter1276 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You would probably need a self sealing tank to prevent that fire.

  • @captainsmartass3368
    @captainsmartass3368 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I really hope that Mattel will a makes a Lancia Delta S4 Hot Wheels car.
    By the way thank you for doing my favourite Rally car

  • @krono5el
    @krono5el 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Shout out to the other kids who grew up with Sega rally Championship on Saturn ripping in the Delta for amazing gaming memories and rally love.

  • @Luca-gp1vp
    @Luca-gp1vp ปีที่แล้ว +1

    i rate the correct pronunciation of "lancia"