WORLD RUGBY HATE SCRUMS | Law Changes Are In
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- World Rugby doing World Rugby things again. This time removing the ability for teams to call for a scrum from a free kick, effective from July 1st. What do you think? Will it help grow the game by creating a more entertaining spectacle...or is it messing with what makes rugby unique and special?!
The scrums in the WC were some of the most entertaining and talked about plays. World Rugby continues to drive rugby towards a place where all the different facets that makes rugby interesting and entertaining are no longer considered as part of the proposed law changes. World Rugby is a disgrace…..
Bingo. Scrums are an awesome spectacle
I agree. It is an integral part of the game and was a key part of the drama and tension in the RWC play-offs. If you feel they are taking too much time speed up how long it takes to set them and reset them (the same for line outs where teams take forever to get to the lineout).
Even sawomen can scrum
Agreed 👍🏼
@@EggchasersRugbyAbsolutely
I was a overweight kid on primary school and really loved rugby…so like every big boned kid😅😅…playing prop was my destiny…hence my weight and size was needed in the scrum and was my contribution towards the team…I couldn’t run around the field like the other kids..but when it was scrum time..I knew it was time to jog to the spot and show my worth…rugby a sport for all shapes and sizes😢😢
I have the exact same story too. It is what made me fall in love with the game.
Yet world rugby claim that they are changing rules so that more kids can find the game safe and wanna participate. It's a coin toss for me. Other loose and others gain. In this case, it's going to be the heavier built kids who are going to feel less important in the game. Talk of double standards
You saying what I was thinking the other day; Rugby literally is the only sports-code where they tell fat people, "We appreciate your shape and size. It is Beautiful "
The only changes we need in rugby is changing the knobheads from World Rugby that keep changing the laws.
Hear...! Hear...!!
Tim I live in the USA. Whenever I show my American friends a rugby match the thing they are most intrigued by is the scrum and the lineout. There is nothing like it in any other sport. I don’t understand why we are self destructing like this.
Two main problems ... 1) World Rugby is too full of individuals with personal and national agendas who are incapable of putting on a neutral 'what's best for the game' hat, and 2) the current standard of referee / assistant referee / TMO skills is the worst I've ever seen it in the game, especially in the northern hemisphere, yet the same people at World Rugby are pushing them as test match officials over far better quality officials from NZ in particular.
@@LittleBigMediaCo Your points are spot on. I've played and watched the game for 40 years. The current 'confusion' in the ref, assistants and TMO's is terrible and in my view partially due to ever changing laws.
@@mikeniemand9368 It's very frustrating to watch.
And this 'neutral ref' system in competitions like URC is even more of a joke. Having a Welsh ref for a match involving Scotland (for example) is the equivalent of having a URC match involving the Stormers ref'ed by a guy from Bloemfontein and calling him 'neutral'.
As Tim correctly pointed out, there are too many rules in rugby already. At any and every given ruck there are probably 5+ events that could be penalized under current rules ... AND we 4+ officials trying to ref by committee, commentary teams who are home biased and often not suitably up to speed on the rules, local TV broadcasters who either show or block replays at the own volition (or at the demand of the home crowd) ... it's a complete mess designed to create bad vibes.
Better quality Officials from NZ - lol!!
@@allanokeeffe9499 Hello Ben's dad.
Spot on Mate. WR is clueless on the evolution of the game:(
Spot on again. Just imagine the following: Free kick, opposition 10 meters away, scrum 'formation' to the left/right, scrumhalf tap and pass to the hooker; now 8 players at full speed towards the opposition; pulled down; penalty closer to the posts. More risk, same result. WR underestimates innovation in rugby
Lol I think you just found a solution to this already 😂😂😂😂
The scrum plays a HUGE role in ensuring the diverse physical requirements a team has to address. Rugby needs mismatches, or we get a load of mesomorphic clones like League. Hope this phase is short-lived.
Totally agree
Excellent point.
Mesomorphic clones! Great use of an old school sports science term.
There should always be room for the endos and ectos.
Excellent point!
"oh it's a mascot who's just wandered on the pitch. Wait no, it's faf de klerk" 😂
🤣🤣🤣 I cracked 🤣🤣🤣🤣
"Episode 4 of Chasing the Sun is a Love Letter to Scrums." 😂
You are officially a South African rugby supporter now - you are just as conspiracy prone as we are!! Welcome!!
The truth isn't a conspiracy theory though ;)
Tim, The truth is, World Rugby needs some fresh faces. people who are more connected to the game. I wonder if a petition for a change on senior leadership of world rugby would get support? We need to save our game! LONG LIVE THE SCRUM!
The “Board” is controlled by old blokes with a negative attitude. The underlying fact is to neutralise Springbok Rugby!
agree get rid of these old faces of the board yeah the old boys club need to get them off the board or vote them maroons off of world rugby there needs to be new leadership in world rugby and leave the bloody laws alone world rugby for good sakes
Put dr Rassie on the board! 🤣🤣
Exactly Right 💯
But not yet, please! We need to win again in 2027 first...
Rumour has it that WR is changing their name to World Touch Rugby…. Not sure if true 😂
I can confirm
World Out of Touch Rugby
looks like its heading that route😂 and it'll end up being boring
My money is on Rassie being way ahead of this...
He got a PLAN
Bending it to how he wants it
True Story 💯
Rugby will be less of a spectacle if you cannot field and wield formidable packs that sap the lifeblood out of the less schooled. Its Just League with a scrum or 2, whats the point?
He is going to out smart them again 😂😂😂
As a South African, I have to say that it's painful that we are always singled out for the world's hatred.
This will not be the first time that laws are changed to nullify what the Springboks do ... but it better not be the last time either ... because let me tell you what ...
If they leave Rassie alone for long enough, he will find a way within the new laws. He is an innovator ... and there is nothing they can do about that.
Rassie will find a way.
Until they ban him.
I'm not too worried, South Africa has been the front runners in adapting to new rugby laws
Absolutely - Rassie has this figured out already Bud.
Haha...Rassie's gonna Rassie
“He’s in your head, in your head…” 🇿🇦💪🏾. WR et al can try, 3xPete here we come 😊.
SA isn't always the frontrunners and sometimes take a bit longer to adapt to new interpretations, however, once they do they become a rolling maul.
I've never heard a casual rugby fan complain about scrums.
@harryspicer1743intresting. If you Australians genrally hate the scrum that much and adore open play, why not play a form of rugby where the scrum is taken out and there is much more emphasis on open play... Wait a minute 🤔
@harryspicer1743 Pro rugby union certainly will exist here in 10 years, I think thats abit dramatic, as is only growing at grassroots. But yeah it's dumb and short sighted and is going to result in even more law changes to combat the consequences and exploitation of this law.
@harryspicer1743 Your family are dumb. I’m not from the NH. Scrums are a set piece, set pieces are actions which teams play off. Scrums encourage teams to then run the ball off of that scrum.
This new rule means teams will kick the ball, or tap and go. What do you think is more positive for rugby? Having a scrum off a free kick, in which teams just have their backlines available, so 7 players vs 7 in the defensive line, or a tap and go, where it’s a fully set 15 man team as the defensive line, or kicking every time. Scrums encourage running rugby more than the other options. Use your brain.
Should just go back to 80's 90's rules. I remember watching the curry cup in south africa as a young man before we were allowed back on to the big stage and holy shit that was rugby !
Yep, miss old school rugby.... from New Zealand
.
Willemse's call in his 25 was bold, most talked about and very high risk.
Hopefully you can watch Chasing the sun 2. It was planned. No risk involved.
I never have seen it done, now that the springboks found in the law they can use to there advantage, and was done only once, maybe in history, it's been outlawed.
You need to be brave to do this. And you still need to run or kick the ball back so I can't see the logic in changing this law.
..and why wouldnt WR want these moments in its sport - baffles me that they dont want moments like these
@@sjmac1518 This is a way of keeping the posession and have a scrum where you can attack from (instead of counter-attacking which may not be a good option at the time). Think the scenario where you are behind and time is up, now you have the possession and can launch a final attack from a set phase or do like the Boks and overpower the opposition to get a penalty. Taking this attacking option away is ridiculous.
For me the problem with scums is the 6 minutes of playing time trickling away for a scrum that turns into another scrum then another and before you know it the game is over! I think an easy fix for this, is the TMO or even the ref, pauses the clock. Easy fix! No need to change rules, just pause the clock, and resume it when the scrum is set.
Thanks for your videos from Canada! 🇨🇦
I totally agree with you! Who ever is high up in WR needs to be fired. How many laws have they changed since lions series due to the Springboks? Its more of a hate towards the saffas and their powerful forwards. Its also clear there are no South Africans in WR with any say in their decision making. Pathetic! I also see they are trying to lower the number substitutions!! Ridiculous!
You weren't complaining when they changed the laws to slow the game down after the ABs won in 2011 and 2015.
Salute- you do rugby a great service with your channel- your love of the game shines through everything!!
Agree with every word. Re-sets need to be quicker. Refs need to be more decisive and penalise or simply allow the ball to be played if front rows aren't playing ball.
Agree...that's where focus should be
A great analysis Tim. And I agree with everything you say here. The problem is that, unlike you, the people making these decisions (some of whom have previously made a great contributions to our game), haven't strapped boots on in any role on the field for a long, long time. Not even as a waterboy. I know a very experienced waterboy who will outthink them all and make them come up with even more laws soon.
It has taken World Rugby three+ WC cycles to try and create an environment where ‘’2nd tier’’ teams like Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Portugal, play against top competition, and they, World Rugby, are still fluffing about. (If you are serious about growing the game, fund these teams and get them playing regularly against the top teams. Look what Fiji were able to do at the last World Cup without even a fraction of the resources of France or England, and what Samoa have done at previous World Cups. Imagine what they could do with the right support) But World Rugby is able to change the scrum laws within months. Appears more like protecting certain teams - keep potential opposition disadvantaged/weak and take other teams strengths away, all to suit our boys. Billy Beaumont, time to do the right thing for the game as a whole. Let’s make some positive change for those that have a real passion for the game and need support.
Imagine what Fiji, Samoa and Tonga could achieve if they can get an ex-world cup winning coach.
Best rugby channel on TH-cam without a doubt
The world cup was a spectacle but for WR the worst thing happened...another Springbok victory. Every time SA wins a RWC rule changes rain in.
Even as an England fan who has fallen victim to South Africa’s scrum two world cups in a row, I really disagree with this law change. The issue isn’t with the scrum itself, it’s with the way it’s reffed and how long it takes to set up. Courtney Lawes and Jim Hamilton said it recently that the game is moving away from the physicality instead of embracing it. What makes rugby special is the dominant scrums, huge hits, and big carries. People watch rugby because they want to see absolute athletes expressing power in the form of collisions. That is quite literally the definition of a scrum.
South African here. Agree completely.
The Saffers have always been ultra-physical and love nothing more than a stand-up physical contest. I was looking forward to other nations finding a way to compete rather than relying on a rule change. I remember the 1997 Lions tour of South Africa and thinking we would get killed in the scrum with the likes of Os Du Randt there. When McGeechan put up Tom Smith and Paul Wallace in the front row I thought they were mad (not understanding the Dark Arts of front row play). But they had brilliant technique and Jim Telfer drilled the forwards mercilessly by all accounts. An exemplar case of good coaches and players with good technique fronting up a clear threat on the field.
I have no words. I am beyond fed up with Bill Beaumont and world rugby. They are and have continued to ruin the game we love. Rugby fans need to protest and force them out. Scrum are integral to rugby union, a game played by all types and you want coaches and teams to think outside of the box. Hope coaches push the boundaries again, to find unique ways to give world rugby two fingers and say fine, you want this, well we will do this. Rugby is a brilliant game and each team has it's strength and weaknesses. I am getting so fed up with the game is being ruined. Fans will have to be given the rugby laws soon to understand what is actually going on. Why can teams not call a scrum off a free kick, simply fix the put in, put a shot clock on setting the scrum etc. Great analysis as always. Just a very sad day for rugby.
Congrats on your son's team win. I have immense respect for your investment in the game.
Appreciate you watching
I totally agree with your assessment Tim, and I find it frustrating that there is very little real discussion or transparency around how they come to these law changes.
Personally, I feel that WR have given top enough time to sort out the scrums with looking the other way at straight feeds etc and they still colapse too much, both sides are trying to gain every advantage they can so often the ref just has to go on who they believe is being the most legal. Also every fan will believe their team should have a penalty from each scrum and can point to reasons why.
Slight Irony in saying teams will sort rules out themselves whilst praising closing the DuPont loophole at the start. Professional teams will work out ways which work from them, rather than as a sport as a whole.
Just also a quick note that the NFL, which is doing a quite reasonable job at spreading itself, has made at least 6 law changes this season and completely changed the kickoff laws because it essense, the KO because a dead play.
Keep up the good work
You are dead right. It’s the Kiwis moaning about scrums. Scrums are unique to rugby and are a huge part of our great game.
Agreed. Fundamental!
Hey I love scrums as a kiwi, one of the things i love watching bout rugby, its the idiots moaning about it mate
You are dead wrong, a couple of kiwi pundits have voiced opinions about speeding the game up and getting the stop start element out of scrums but why would NZ with one of the best scrums in the world be behind this? Incredible ignorance to think this is "the kiwis".
@@jesseferguson4269 Don't treat people like they are stupid. Foster was very vocal about it leaving as the coach and then got his buddy Gatland to be your proxy (rather than leave it to Razor to sort out) posing as if it was for the benefit of The Lions and Wales. Gatland has also never been that charitable to SA rugby. We was one of the Catalysts to the drama in the last Lions series complaining about Marius Jonker and then Erasmus.
Yes The Kiwis hate to lose.And they know the only way to beat the Springboks is if they can put restrictions in place to weaken the Springboks Pack of Forwards.If not they wil find it very difficult to beat our Springboks.They realize after our Isolation from Rugby,we now have catch-up and they wil lose 6times out of 10.
Bill bloody Beaumont has a very short memory. If we go back to England when they won the World Cup with players like Martin Johnson, Lawrence De Lalio ( spelling) had the most feared pack in world rugby. With Johnny Wilkinson conducting play behind the pack. Sir Clive Woodward was hailed as the greatest coach of his time. They won with a forward dominated game and a great defensive strategy. It was the birth of the outside in defensive pattern that is still evident in many sides today. No one called it boring rugby. No one said there were too many scrums and England were the number one side in the world. Now contrast that with Rasie Erasmus and the Springbok team who play a very similar game all be it with some tweaks. He is not acknowledged as a great coach nor is the team hailed a a great team. Instead the winging Gatlin and Foster have got everything they have asked for as if they have the only insight on how the game should be played. You are 100% correct when you say they should go and play and or administrate rugby league stop wrecking the greatest game ever. We don’t need you now go away. Please
I agree that scrums have a place in rugby, and no, I don't think they should be eliminated from the game, but I do think that scrums have become far too great of a focus in the professional era. I'm glad to see World Rugby are willing to make changes in this area. How this particular change will influence the situation I do not know, but I see the problems with the scrum the following way;
In it's purest form the scrum is supposed to be a physical contest stacked in favor of the team in possession intended to restart play after an in-field stoppage not involving foul play. They have the added benefit of tying up the forwards, creating more room for running rugby. That's it. That's the only purpose it was intended to serve at its inception.
However, incremental law changes have compounded to morph the scrum into a penalty earning contest. To my mind this is very much against the spirit of the game. Penalties are supposed to be punishment for flaunting the laws of the game, for dangerous play and for cynical acts, they're not supposed to be punishment for losing a physical contest.
The prevalence of penalties at scrum time has made them so tactically valuable that they have become the most time consuming but arguably least entertaining element of the sport. Additionally, a team that is losing the fitness battle later in a match can significantly mitigate their shortcoming by wasting minutes at a time resetting scrums.
As long as scrums are awarded for knock-ons they will continue to be an integral part of the game no matter how many other scrum options are removed. I don't have a problem dropping the scrum option from free-kick restarts, it will speed up the game, except in the event that the free-kick was awarded from a scrum offense. I do not think you should be able to get out of scrummaging by committing an infringement. So what's the fix?
I have long though that World Rugby should introduce an 'indirect penalty' by which a team could kick for touch and territorial gain, but not for points. I think scrum infringements would be the ideal circumstance for an indirect penalty. There will still be lots of ways to earn penalties and they will continue to be critical in tight games, but I don't think that simply losing a scrum in your own half should be enough to hand a result to an opponent. Let's do what we can to make sure matches are decided by diving tries in the corner, or bullocking touch-downs after furious goal-line defensive stands, and not because a prop drops to a knee after seventy-nine minutes of busting a lung.
That's it, that's all I have...
...for now...
Tha'ts what I said but not as well as you did The point was missed leave the scrum alone just don't give pennies for failing to keep your feet well 3 points I should say you are spot on
Wonder if they realise that the only reason Damien Willemse did what he did was because of the Dupont law, France not wanting to scrum!
Precisely. Ironic isn't it
World Rugby Hate the Springboks
Rightly so. They suck.
@@henryburton6529 Opinions are like Assholes. everyone has them. And i for one dont wana see/hear yours..
@@henryburton6529Here's the reaction you hoping for...
@@henryburton6529 Got your rainbow panties in a knot there, pumpkin? Stop the tears now.
@@henryburton6529 4 world cups but they suck? This is why it's best to lay off the nyaope folks.
Unfortunately Bill and his buddies are hopeless we need a change urgently please 🙏
Scrums are not the issue, but resets definitely are.
I was recently re-watching England's games from the 2007 World Cup, and the rapidity with which scrums were reset was incredible.
Precisely. They have used a sledgehammer to crack a nut
This is the root of it all, setting up scrums and then another one, 3-4 minutes have gone. Same with the stupid huddle that happens at line outs now. The game needs speeding up at set pieces including place kicks.
Partly because the hit became very dangerous but WR could have tried simpler solutions.
That's nothing. Watch the 1995 RWC final. No pussy-footing when those front rows hit.
I am a South African and I am very proud of what we are able to achieve if we really apply ourselves!
I agree with you totally, not because I am South African but I want to see a hard, tactical and powerful game when it comes to rugby. Yes the South African squad have trained so very hard to get to where they are and taking absolutely nothing away from any other teams and sportsmen' and women with the will and discipline to achieve greatness within themselves and as a team. That is what sport is about to me, about achieving more by training as hard as possible through discipline.
I can't see any other reason that World Rugby has done this other than the fact South Africa have won the last 2 world cups. For me the game won't be as much entertaining.
Each team has their thing, their soul as some call it, the character they have.
New Zealand, so systematical and have all their basics to a T. Then blended with their incredible skill and pace they play the game with. Their attitude is not to give up. They are a team that can and so often have come back in the dying minutes of a test match scoring a try or even two.
As somebody with a love for the sport Rugby I enjoy watching their skill and how they play the game. They dominated almost flawlessly for so long!
As a South African watching us almost always lose them and all other teams too, I patiently waited for years supporting my team the Springboks and the game Rugby for what it is. I never once felt we needed to change the laws of the game or hated the Kiwis for beating us. Yes it was really crap but I always believed we and other teams would eventually come back by learning and training harder. That is the sportsmen's way in my opinion. If you can't beat em, train harder!
Unfortunately in this world we are living in we get bitter people that would rather try to control or change something which already works incredibly well as apposed to actually working hard for it. I'm gutted that these people actually have the power to do so and it gets accepted. I'm gutted us as the fans or coaches of the international teams and actual players have no say in the matter..
What makes Bill Bowlmont or however you spell his name so much more special to have the say to change these laws without consulting or discussing. The same rules as they are apply to all of us fairly, or do they?
I want to see powerful scrums on the field. I want to see players bringing it onto the pitch and powerhouses up against one another. Let each team play the style they want. Play and let play.
World Rugby, you may be ruining this sport for the rest of us.
This has Gatland and Foster written all over it. A classic case of "tall poppy syndrome. The kiwis can't handle not winning ...
YEAH, THE kIWIS HATE THAT THEY LOST. It's their arrogance. They give the impression that they're cool lads, but in reality they're cry-babies.
You really think Foster has any influence over world rugby. Get a grip
@@timgregory82 yes I do. Every single pod cast, pundit show coming out of NZ post WC was whining about speeding up the game. Whining about how the Boks are destroying the game. The only team in the world at present playing the game the way it was intended is the Boks.
What a clown making accusations without any proof it doesn't matter what laws they have NZ will dominate with Razorrr.
And Rassie will still outsmart them 😂
Agree - even long terms fans are confused: the complicated rules are the most frustrating part of rugby
Rassie is going to set up multiple mauls. Like the "PLAY" in the 2019 WC final, but he will stack them, perhaps up to 6 times after every scrum free kick the Boks win. He will get the technique perfected and we re going to see 40m mauls and tries from mauls like never before. Can't wait 🙂!
Cannot agree with you more
Ekt ook hierdie move gesien kom!
Chasing the Sun 2 episode 4 will go down in the annals of rugby history as a proper and fit dedication to the scrum.
Rugby will never be the same again😢
It is really sad. The international rugby leadership seem out of touch with the spirit of what rugby is and should be. Instead of leaning into what 15s rugby is and what makes it special and different from Rugby League and Rugby 7s - the physicality, the scrum and the fact that it requires a diversity of player size, build and skills to win - they rather are trying to make it more like League and 7s. No one that loves rugby was bored during the QF, SF and final in the RWC that involved SA (even though scrums played such a big role). I would much rather watch the England vs SA SF than the NZ vs Argentina one. I feel that is the main issue - that the leadership at the international level is misguided and out of touch with what rugby is and why we love it. A brutal, physical sport that combines skill and speed and brute force. But unfortunately I think there may also an element of sour grapes from some teams that are trying to change the rules to disadvantage the teams that are beating them more often than not now. Rather than focusing on what they themselves can do within the current laws to either strengthen their own scrum, or their bench, or come up with their own innovative strategies to win. This is a step in the wrong direction and will not win it new fans
I think Rassie saw this coming, maybe the signing of Tony Brown as one of the top attack coaches in world rugby was done with a specific purpose in mind. Expect a more attacking style of play from the Boks, we have the backs, with big bruising forwards to carry the phases.
Grant Fox??
Grant Fox??? Do you want to try that again?? 🤣🤣
@@timgregory82 Yep my mistake, I can play the blame game and put age as the culprit. Tony Brown, ( fixed it)🙈🤣
@@michaelagathagelou6412 Yeah I know 🤣 happens to us all, boet!! Thanks for the chuckle!
Tony Brown isn't one of the top attack coaches in the world. What has he down that's notable? If he was what you claim he is, the NZRU would have snapped him up long ago.
I agree with you. Leave the scrums alone as they are. New laws cause too many problems. Agree with you 100%. I love your channel. Cannot wait to see you in South Africa later this year. Love your comments.
Kind regards
Braam
World Rugby is just jealous that South Africa won back to back Rugby World Cups
How good is Rassie? Have to change the game to beat him. The “fix” is in. Sad to see our greatest foes NZ driving it. I guess winning by any means possible is truly the NZ way. Even changing a game they’ve dominated for 30 years.
They’ve become soft.
Ball in play stats
1987 28.11
2003 31.58
2011 32.12
2019 34.21
2023 34.18
Scrums
1987 32
2003 22
2011 19
2019 14
2023 15
What exactly is the problem?
Just because the game doesn't suit the NZ eye doesn't mean we must make it 15-man league. Richard Low, Hayman, Collins, McCaw and the great packs of NZ past are being dishonored as much as SA are being nullified. Absolutely mind blowing
New Zealand were not driving the scrum changes. New Zealand you say have gone soft, yet the beat you guys nearly 3 out of 4 times since neutral referees.
Damn interesting stats... allow me to be devils advocate for a sec. The boks also win at all costs. its what makes the two teams so damn hard to beat. Remember the food poisioning in 95. Now of course its a touchy subject but i mean lets call a spade a spade. NZ have always used the laws to get the advantage. previously it was chosing a guy who was invisible to refs in mccaw. Now they try and get an upper hand by forcing everyone to play their style. Its okay. the boks will be fine.
Its truly pathetic if you think NZ are behind this. The ABs have nearly always had parity or been dominant at scrum time with the best, including the boks. Its like some boks fans cant admit that there are other teams who scrum as well or better than them. Move on and cry somewhere else.
Agreed, Warren.
@@warrenbooysen Homie, dont get emotional. Read. I am simply playing devils advocate. I AM A DIE HARD BOK FAN. Dont be the worst of us on social media man.
Yea couldn't agree more for the most part. I have my doubts about them targeting the boks specifically though. I feel they just think it would be better for the game. For my part I don't think it would be and expect I'm not alone. Will the boks be very affected by this unduly? I think not so much. They are a force to be reckoned with and will just adapt. Here's a thought though.. Why don't you see if you can get your hands on one of these all powerful decision makers and interview him. Might make for some interesting content. Vis-à-vis the upcoming series and the possibility of Ireland taking advantage of this silliness.. if they do, I'll be very disappointed but even if they don't, invariably some team eventually will. So yea.. just like you said.. trying to solve one problem and creating three others. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for WR working on making the game safer but nerfing the scrum into the ground will do more damage than good.
You are correct with your views about the amendments to the rules. When me and my family or with friends are watching a game, there is a continuous discussion about decisions and rules which are confusing to fans. Must be the team sport with the most rules of which many are discretionary. And you're right: there is a bias against good & solid scrummaging for reasons: results favored the world cup winners.
They are treating rugby like a business and that business needs more customers. These changes in laws do not take into consideration the old fans and how we enjoy this beautiful sport as it is, which has players of all shapes and sizes, as you pointed out. They just need new customers to make more money.
Love your channel. Greeting from Chile.
simply add a scrum phase clock like the kick clock with a turnover penalty , clock starts from the moment the ref blows or call for scrum is made. The clock is for both teams and runs to the engage moment , i.e. if you are the scrum defending team and you are not ready to scrum by the time the clock is up , you take the penalty. There you go world rugby.... sorted.
⁰⁰
Well said egg chases. agree completely. Teams like South Africa, New Zealand Ireland, etc. will just innovate to any rule change. It’s not gonna make it easier on any other team.
Sadly law changes and price rises will kill the game off because people well done Dorking colts for winning the Nations Cup
Saw that result...good on Dorking
Amen! Let's get the scrums back!!
I love scrums, and the rugby is as good as its been in some time. Very exciting matches in every competition almost. Leave scrums alone! Bring scrums back for free kicks. The other law changes are fine. And leave the laws as is for a 10 years maybe or just alone.
Spot on Tim! Why not bring the two sides closer together, just doing ‘crouch and engage’ eliminating the surge forward? There’s too many pinickty infringements at scrums which should be ignored. When I was a member of the front row brotherhood, we wouldn’t dream of going down. Leave scrums alone and look at the sealing off/ off feet fiascos that happen at rucks.
Sonny Bill Williams, in the second 2017 test against the B&I Lions, became only the second All Black in history to be sent off with a red card. Prior to this, NZ had no complaints about the integrity of the game and their opposition being red carded at a much higher rate than them and a stellar win rate. Since SBW's red, many more ABs players have been sent off, culminating in Sam Cane being sent off in the RWC2023 final. The ABs win rate has also decreased from its lofty heights over the first 100 or so years in recent times. When NZ had the strongest bench and highest fitness levels in the world, circa 2015, there was no issue with using your bench, it was said that modern rugby is a 23 man game and the players who finish a test are just as, if not more important than the 15 who start. The Springboks, on the basis of a strong scrum and stacked bench, have won two world cups back to back. Suddenly we hear from NZ on a weekly basis that red cards need to be only 20 minutes long, subs must be reduced or only allowed in case of injuries so there can be more tired players, and scrums must be nerfed, and of course WR inclines their ear, because their biggest brand has spoken. It must be nice to just have WR in your pocket like that
Be careful taking what you hear out of Clown Kirwin''s mouth as being representative of NZ's views in general. He's a toxic whiny PoS, & Jeff Wilson lacks the backbone to push back against the bile speech that comes out of Kirwin's mouth.
Why on earth would world rugby favor nz? All the money is in the northern hemisphere. Put your thinking cap on
I agree with you I hate these stupid NZ pundits and supporters now . Hope they never win another game
@@timgregory82 You sound like a decision maker at World Rugby. Do you have to stop thinking when you fart, or can your backside do two things at the same time?
@@timgregory82 Exactly, we can't even get the NH teams to send a competent squad for June tests, how the hell are we going to drive law changes like this, madness
Scrums are fundamental and integral to game
International rugby has never been better in my opinion. The 2023 World Cup was one of the best of all time, especially the knock outs. The Six Nations used to have a reputation of producing slow, low scoring games, but for the last few years it's been home to some of the best attacking rugby you can watch. The most recent summer tours were dynamite, with each series having a deciding third test, the first time that's ever happened. We've never had such a level playing field at international level, it's just so so good. The international game in its current state is something that needs to be preserved and promoted, not changed. It's baffling honestly.
Well said!! Hate that people have the power to just change things they are not happy with for their own benefit.
You got that right Tim!!! Do World Rugby consult with the different countries or do they just do as they please..? Serious question, because they seem to be doing whatever they want AGAINST the wishes of the public...
Repeated collapsing scrums that lead to ambiguous calls and momentum killing penalty kicks are boring.
But they have thrown the baby out with the bath water. Scrums are integral to the psychology of rugby. They are one of the marked difference between the complexities of RU vice the more simple (high speed) RL.
The Springbok’s call for a penalty against France at the RWC was inspired. He completely drove at the heart of strategy: we will take you on upfront so if you kick long we will just outscrum, win penalties and dominate a territory-set piece battle. This call by world rugby is a blow to the intelligence of the game.
The irony is that just removing the Dupont law may have the need for that strategy.
Name and shame the faceless wonders of World Rugby !
Fully agree completely with what you are saying. Scrums are an important facet of the game and should not be depowered.
The only thing I will say is at elite level the scrums do seem to take a long time set and reset. It often seems the ref is using them to get a breather and get his own baring before they are set, and then they take it too slowly. If you watch junior rugby there isn't a problem , scrums are set and completed quicky.
So the only law change I would consider at the moment is a scrum set clock, although the problem is actually the ref
Where can I buy a "leave scrums alone" T-shirt?
Still waiting for Tim to open his merch shop.
Will pre-order the "Hands off our Scrum" as well as the "Bongi says Relax" t-shirts immediately!
Change the rules... Rassie knows them all 🤣
Scrums are a way to restart the game, they should always be a contest but way too much time is spent on resets. I think the changes are good and teams will adjust and adapt as they always have
Too much room for cheating.
Since the game ended injury only replacements the packs have become huge since most of the pack will only play an average forty minutes. This has led to scrums no longer being mainly a means to restart the play and more an opportunity to win a kickable penalty. As you said, it is solutions for problems other rule changes have created. If the pack is made to stay on the park for the whole game then you will have to balance power and weight against endurance. The spaces will open up later on as the less mobile pack starts to labour and their scrum advantage from the first half becomes less of a factor.
My sentiments exactly.
Expect it won't go down well though with the hardliners here.
@@dougvee4744 Another thing that goes unnoticed is the size of the centres these days as so much of the game is based around the pack. When you look at the amount of time the pack spends in the scrum, lineout (often followed by mauling), pick and drive, forming those caterpillars etc, it means that the backs do not cover the amount of ground as in days gone by so even they are giants. To be honest the only "weird" looking players in terms of size these days are the scrum halves and some oversized props. It is becoming less a game for all sizes and more a game for different shapes but above a minimum weight. Before 2000 how many 10s did you know that were big enough to play at 12 or 13? I can only think of Mike Catt.
Time for a break-away, sane teams need to break from WR and stick to the old ways with a new union.
Love your content mate keep it up. I love recommending your channel to friends. When I was younger I used to be super critical of scrums as I thought they took up too much time in the game. However as I have got older I have come to realize how special scrums are to rugby. Your point that rugby is a sport for all shapes and sizes resonates so deeply and should not be compromised especially in a world where we strive for inclusivity.
This reminds me of schoolchildren playing a game. The rules change continuously 😅😅. Scrums have always been not only a show of sheer power & strength, but skill. Regardless of what many think, there is an enormous amount of skill, especially in the front rows.
Something needs to change. Part of the problem is down to scrum coaches and Props trying all sorts of tricks to get penalties. Also some referees are not up to standard in the art of the scrum. A few years ago a referee in the Premiership told the props after the 3rd collapse that he would send both props off for 10 mins if it collapsed again. It never collapsed again.
It's a joke I adore scrums they are the corner stone of the game in my eyes I moved from league to union at 15 and fell in love with the scrums and forward play 33 now still playing
I’m going to make a weird parallel to the NFL here, but stay with me. 😂 the NFL has tweaked the rules so much to favor offensive/passing teams that every team in the league are all trying to play a certain way. Whereas before you had differences in how teams played and won. No longer can a great defense lead a team, same with a great running game. Rugby is doing the same thing. When you limit options on how you can create try’s and score points it creates a much more boring game since every team is just a copy of the other with different colors on.
Great comments Tim. Hope to see you in South Africa.
You are right scrums are not the problem.The real problem is how long it takes to set scrums.
Certain teams love to slow down the game and give their big guys a bit of rest.
Halfbacks who delay putting the ball need to be penalised with straight arm penalty.
Biggest problem in Rugby right now is amount of red cards for wrong tackle height.
For accidental tackle wrong height a orange card should be brought into the game.
For this offence a player is sent off and is replaced after 20 minutes.
All other foul play a normal red card applies.We are seeing too many games 14 vs 15.
Three years ago this wasn’t problem.This turning Rugby into handicap event.
The handicap 14.This is horse racing not rugby.
The clock needs to be stopped for scrums whilst they set.
Find it crazy they don't do this amount of games that fizzle out because of reset scrums
And that speeds the game up,how?
@@geoffhughes225 you're never going to speed the game up if you have scrums, but at the very least there isnt minute after minute burnt whilst scrums set and reset and reset.
@lindsayparker2965 thus achieving nothing. Once upon a time there were no problems with scrum, then came a proliferation of laws designed to prevent scrum injuries. Now the game has become a scrum fest with teams using the scrum to gain penalties.so what was designed as a means to restart the game after an infringement has become a fiasco. Turning the clock off is not going to solve the issue
@@geoffhughes225 of course its not going to solve the problem with scrums. Who said it would? Take your argument elsewhere. All I was saying was if you have scrums at least stop the clock while they fanny around setting the damn thing.
The only thing I want changing with scrums is actually putting the ball in the center and having more of a contest for them
I can see rassie getting the boks to break the system again and send a clear message. Imagine this the scrum as you describe the eng early engage give the freekick and the boks forwards keep the scrum pack take the tap knock the ball pick it up and lets scrum on your put in
Since playing my first game at the age of 11, Scrums have been the defining element of the game of Rugby. 56 now, still play vets. This is a bad move from World Rugby.
When you actually think about it, teams being dominated in the scrum may get 4 or 5 get out of jail free cards since there are so many separate free kickable offences in the scrum. ie: 1st early engage, 1st not taking the hit, 1st no break foot, 1st no hook ect...
I wish there was a way that fans could object to these law changes!
Tim you are a great rugby bloke.. We should maybe start playing touch rugby...if France won the quarters by doing what the boks did then we won't be having this conversation..head of irb no lets call him a wanker
What difference would it have made if France had won?
@@zarg64 The first and last call for a scrum from a catch in your own 22. Maybe that little detail? If France had won, nobody would have cared about it.
Thanks again Tim.
IMHO, this law change will go down an inevitable route ending in no more competitive scrums. Front rows will just milk the free kick to the point where the free kick will replace the scrum.
Historically, the scrum was a contest for posession and the winner won the ball. Now, they win a penalty which is absurd. So we either go back to the old days (which has been deemed inherently too dangerous), or we just scrap the scrum right now.
The scrum in the RWC created critical times where the overall result could have / did change, so games were in the balance until the final moments. Here are 2 examples:
1. The semi -final between SA and England, and
2. The final scrum between SA and NZ in the final.
Its rediculous to outlaw the option to take a scrum from the mark. It only happened 1x in the 2023 RWC and comes with significant risk. Far more risk than a free kick.
Replace Bill Bauemont with Baxter!!!
Gets my vote
@@EggchasersRugby Let us right-minded rugga-fans then start canvassing....
Scrum penalty decisions are a lottery at the best of times. Imagine in soccer if the referee had to guess if there was a penalty? CRAZY.
Reducing the number of people in the Scrum would help.
AWARDING INDIERECT FREE KICKS , instead of full penalties would help too.
Ah gross. Less than an 8-man scrum? HELOOOO LEAGUE!
Ironically, Union looks more like league now the whole team line across the pitch. If there were 2 less players lining across the pitch, you'd get more space to play rugby, instead of crash test dummies 'Jackling'....that was never part of rugby fir the past 100 year.
Cheers Tim. As a Bok fan, I wonder if World Rugby would have made the law change re the free kick - scrum if South Africa didn't win the World Cup. No one complained when England won the trophy with a dominant pack in 2003.
Baxter is bang on as per usual
Always!
BAXTER for President of WORLD RUGBY!!!
And your comment about 'size and skill' is totally correct. I also had the huge privilege of coaching both my sons at junior school level and it was fantastic to see other kids, maybe not as skilled, growing in confidence and just having a brilliant time in the team. THAT IS RUGBY UNION!!
If Boks are dominant in the scrum and the opposing team gives away a free kick to the Boks then when the Boks tap it just bloody knock it on then there is ANOTHER SCRUM.
Spot on you re so right
World Rugby don't hate scrums, they have teams relying on scrums that utilise their bench not to replace injured players but to overpower the opposition late in games.
The rule change from this injury replacements to tactical changes has fundamentally changed rugby from a 15 a side game to 23 a side.
For a better game reduce benches to 4 max.
It’s no coincidence that the rule changes are applied by first world countries (with all the revenue) when they have been shown up (two world cups in a row) by a third world country with a fraction of their revenue. But you carry on…… we will once again adapt and overcome 💪🏻
Keep in mind that the IRB brought in the Experimental Law Variations straight after the '07 world cup in which SA won. We thrived off long arm penalties because Steyn could slot them from just about anywhere, so they had to change most of them to short arm penalties. Also, you could no longer pass it back into the 22 and kick it out on the full, because that's obviously what worked very well for us. During the 2009 British and Irish Lions series, as well as the Tri nations, Heinrich Brussow absolutely dominated the ruck area, and this is where IRB once again had to step in and introduce the "daylight" law. Well... Fast forward a couple of years and now the IRB hates scrums 😂
Tim, I don't think that WR can say that this is a law change that is being made to aide the flow of the game. The reason I say this is that until Willemse called for a scrum against France, we never saw it happen. So, how can something that the world has only seen once cause a problem that necessitates a law change to aide the flow of the game? The reality is that this law change was made in response to one team's dominance in World Cups, and it borders on shameful. And that is quite apart from the fact that they are messing with something that has, to some extent, defined rugby since its inception. I am as disappointed as you are. At the end of the day, South Africa will adapt to the change, but the negative impact that changes like these will have on the game will be difficult to reverse. The last thing I will say on this is that I believe that rugby is more a game of power than it is a game of speed. It feels like Sir John Kirwan was on the panel that approved this change 😀
What’s the point of scrums when the ball’s basically just fed into the second row anyway? They’re not a true contest. Improve them or get rid of them.
Exactly. Since scrum-halves are now seemingly allowed to feed the ball diagonally into scrums, I don't know why hookers haven't been allowed to start throwing the ball diagonally into lineouts, to ensure that their team retains the ball. Why the discrepancy there? I thought that both set pieces were supposed to serve as contests for possession.
I agree with all you say. You are a fantastic spokesman for our beloved game. Rugby as you say is game where 7' Goliaths are on the same field as the 5' Davids, its unique, its brilliant and messing will scrum will change this.
I could not agree more Tim. I think Wr is just mistaking. Speeding the scrums set up is fine. Lowering the number and impact of them is not.
Perfectly put