A refreshingly lucid and optimistic take on the internet and AI. I wish however Jaron would stop believing that market forces have something innately built in to give us more equality and democracy. I am encouraged by his use (and belief) in terms such as 'collectives', 'cooperatives' and 'all for for all' (as opposed to 'all against all') but these are profoundly socialist concepts...Jaron needs to remember that there are forms of socialist ideology based on a more decentralised/grassroots approach which are about demonopolisation in economic and political terms. You won't meet many (leftists) people nowadays in the west who hold up up China and the former Soviet Union as shining beacons of progression. Tyrannies, dictatorships and authoritarian regimes are reprehensible no matter what (ideological/national) flag they stand under. The pursuit of a better (and way more participative) society needs to look beyond the notions of eternal 'growth' and the relentless pursuit of profit and individualism!
Don't be disheartened, I think you and Jaron are aligned. Collections and cooperatives are not socialist centralized authorities. He did disavow centralization as a repeatedly failed concept rooted in communism early in the interview. In a free market, we always have companies working together to enrich the value chain to ultimately create more value for the end consumer of the service.
Collectivist movements work extremely well at small scales and extremely badly at large scales. Lanier has already spoken about the problems of massive centralized locusts of authority, which is a major risk with AI and technology, the key is for groups of people to remain small and decentralized. I also think that this is the future. Radical individualism as demonstrated by 2024 America, is also horrible, and should be avoided. People are strongest when associated with a small group of people, somewhere around 10-200 people.
If A.I is a mashup of stuff already online, then insofar as that stuff is already online, companies creating A.I for the purpose of supplanting human labor do not need to ensure the perpetuation of humans and their labor.
The company that would be creating this ai would have to have people do the labour. But lets just say for arguments sake somehow weve skipped that and have ai making other ai and improving upon itself. Ok, where did it get that idea from? AI cant think for itself. It would need to "mash up" old research on the subject that was probably only written in theory, which most likely would end up with a worse version of itself if it tried to "self-update". It would need a constant stream of information as again, it doesnt think for itself.
Thank you Jaron and Steve for this video and clarity. Jaron ❤❤❤ love your guitar collection. Since ai is artificial not authentic, my concern lays with who programs the Gollum (A.I).
I've long been a fan of Jaron's humanistic approach to technology (though, contradicting what is said in the video, he is not precisely a humanist). His book You Are Not a Gadget is required reading for anyone who is interested in technology but queasy about how tech tends to make people and societies more machine-like. Like that book, his approach here is to look at technology with both feet on the ground as an antidote to the crazy prognostications, both pro and con, that dominates discussion of A.I. in the world of TH-cam videos. However, I would flatly contradict Jaron in a couple of specific instances.If he believes that A.I. is no threat, I would ask him to take a trip down to Hollywood, where I am sure that he would readily find numerous strikers who would elaborate on A.I. as a severe threat to their professions. Basically, the big studios want to use A.I. to write movie scripts, and even though they are engorged with capital already, they don't want to spend a few cents on on-set writers, who are employed to rewrite scripts on the fly. It is a ludicrous shame that we are at the point where we want to use machines to do what art is supposed to do, which is to NOT be a machine. My second objection is to the risible notion that capitalism is about cooperation. The fact that Jaron thinks this makes me have doubts about his commitment, after all is said and done, to the whole range of humane ideals I would imagine the real Jaron to have. This is why I don't think he is a humanistI
"Should we hedge against you being wrong" - - thats just Pascal's wager with AI as God. Lanier responded to this quite well: that AI is not what weve deified it to be.
ai experts all over the world are afraid of the potential of ai. many experts are crying out for ai regulations. sorry but its not 100% certain that ai will be good for everyone. the human body (brain and mind) is a colony of cells just like an ant colony, willing to sacrifice parts of the colony at the orders of the mind. its not hard for something akin to the human mind to be created within computation. in fact most experts think it will be vastly more capable and intelligent than anyone can imagine. just like the ant colony will sacrifice the workers and the human body will sacrifice cells, why wouldn't ai be similar?
“Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.” Dune
Everyone is being amazed by AIs that regurgitate texts, images and sounds without distinguishing between adequate responses and grotesque hallucinations. Meanwhile, a Brazilian caboclo (a rustic man from a rural area) invents three tools with a single handle. 😀😀
I love your grounded processing because it's understandable I've found if you want information, go within, but to get the job done on the material world takes time The computer is a model based off of the function of human body system so it's just programming that needs adjusting lol The correct coding will be matched to energy systems and there are grids explained in the Torah or the book of knowledge keys of Enoch, and it is advanced stuff hard to understand but perfectly designed The game is becoming sovereign and part of the process is complete harmony That involves advanced thought and planning which these machines can accomplish The laws are written in our language system,the Jewish alphabet in the letters The wisdom is knowing how the emanations work, and how it can be used in safe ways, such as atomic energy and power consumption etc The physics is understanding that now we don't need to destroy everything with an atomic bomb blast,we can use computers to simulate the experience without causing physical harm The misuse of power has extended to control and manipulate instead of service to mankind The AI could be brilliant, but just knowing your name and birthdate,connects you to higher information about yourself, which in itself could end bad with online fraud with the financial system The connection between man and machine has to be helpful not harmful to all The true power is finding pathways to connecting what we already have, and making it better than before I enjoy the freedom and speed of AI capabilities but still prefer having full sovereignty to choose what I want and having no choice or ways up and out of poverty The connection between me and spirit is stronger because I have autism which sometimes technology helps more, sometimes less than the average person It's great for learning but terrible for user friendliness as I don't normally trust technology 😂 seems contradictory but hey 😂
Science and religion don't mix with each other. I personally believe they are polar opposites of each other. One is grounded in information, the other in faith. But even still, this is complete nonsense. "The correct coding will be matched to energy systems and there are grids explained in the Torah or the book of knowledge keys of Enoch, and it is advanced stuff hard to understand but perfectly designed The game is becoming sovereign and part of the process is complete harmony That involves advanced thought and planning which these machines can accomplish The laws are written in our language system,the Jewish alphabet in the letters"
This seems to be an odd change of stance. Targeting TikTok but leaving silicone valley as ethically sound? This is something that all small number of people have invested time and research into and that's where it should stay until requested or made available for those who want it. Keep "we" out of this please.
I agree with Jaron as well when he says that what he says about China can be understood as racist and yes, I think it is. On my part I am not afraid about China, a nation that build a WALL (curiously not noticed by Marco Polo despite that according to him, he was appointed as Governor of a Chinese province by the emperor himself LOL) to protect herself from invasion is not expansionist, while USA et al waged wars since the end of WW II (1945) till now and before it was UK waging wars against practically all major nations, many minnows and even tribes (Maoris and Zulus, etc) since the end of the 17th century (including USA in 1814 when they burned the White House) dubbed by historians as "gunboat diplomacy" (UK bombed with impunity for three days the city of Copenhagen during the Napoleonic Wars to force the Danes to surrender their fleet). Jaron is afraid of Tik-Tok but not Microsoft..., well, it is a matter of tastes I believe... pick your poison... On my part, I am afraid of a system that allows people to make money without working while they sleep literally), a system that allows to accumulate too much money (fake of FIAT if you wish, pseudo money that creates pseudo money...) in very few hands, a system that encourages celebrity against TALENT, fake geniuses and moguls that switch to "philanthropists"... If there were so many genius now as some weasels claim, we should have by now about ten thousand Mona Lisas, to say the least... Perhaps we can get that many using AI LOL...
A person cannot compete with a machine and a machine cannot compete with a person because a person has SOUL. The problem is that nowadays speaking about SOUL is like speaking about ghosts and superstition for a very good reason, people who believe in souls are not afraid to die and have MORALS LOL. This statement answers the question posed by Jaron about communism, why we don't create a system that can fulfill all human needs without the need to work ? Simple answer: then, who will be the waiter and who will be the FAT CAT? This is the answer... Human jobs are the ones that cannot be performed by animals or machines, it is as simple as this, and technology changes the equation all the time... and we need to ADAPT to that, take for instance, if we need to build a pyramid now we will not use armies of workers as the pharaohs did (an anachronistic Keynesian stimulus to the economy pre Keynes which is used today under the banner of Ukraine's war). Thus, AI is here to stay, and people will have to give way or become "volunteers" as people who maintain steam trains today. Owr job is to EDUCATE and prepare these people to perform jobs that cannot be performed by machines and AI, and paradoxically, AI can help with this as well. A job in disuse today is the job of PRIESTS, these jobs cannot be fulfilled with AI and they are in dire necessity (not demand, which are different things altogether), especially Catholics, in my opinion.
"Owr job is to EDUCATE and prepare these people..." Do you mean that technocrats, central programmers etc = EDUCATORS & "these people" = everybody else? Parasitism appears to be a fundamental property of existence itself -
I agree with Jaron, a computer is just another machine as simple as a hammer and AI is just adjustment of functions (function setting in the context of real analysis) the problem we have now is that we lost the sense of PHILOSOPHY the Schoolmen had, if they were alive now they would "solve" this problem in a second: the machine does not have WILL (volition). This simply thing cannot be understood now by most people for the simple reason that we have been converted into atheists and materialists, it is not that computers were "humanized" (adding people's attributes like soul and will) it is THE OTHER WAY AROUND, namely WE HAVE BEEN metamorphosed into MACHINES LOL.
A refreshingly lucid and optimistic take on the internet and AI. I wish however Jaron would stop believing that market forces have something innately built in to give us more equality and democracy. I am encouraged by his use (and belief) in terms such as 'collectives', 'cooperatives' and 'all for for all' (as opposed to 'all against all') but these are profoundly socialist concepts...Jaron needs to remember that there are forms of socialist ideology based on a more decentralised/grassroots approach which are about demonopolisation in economic and political terms. You won't meet many (leftists) people nowadays in the west who hold up up China and the former Soviet Union as shining beacons of progression. Tyrannies, dictatorships and authoritarian regimes are reprehensible no matter what (ideological/national) flag they stand under. The pursuit of a better (and way more participative) society needs to look beyond the notions of eternal 'growth' and the relentless pursuit of profit and individualism!
Don't be disheartened, I think you and Jaron are aligned. Collections and cooperatives are not socialist centralized authorities. He did disavow centralization as a repeatedly failed concept rooted in communism early in the interview. In a free market, we always have companies working together to enrich the value chain to ultimately create more value for the end consumer of the service.
Collectivist movements work extremely well at small scales and extremely badly at large scales. Lanier has already spoken about the problems of massive centralized locusts of authority, which is a major risk with AI and technology, the key is for groups of people to remain small and decentralized. I also think that this is the future. Radical individualism as demonstrated by 2024 America, is also horrible, and should be avoided. People are strongest when associated with a small group of people, somewhere around 10-200 people.
23:00 - It's "vice versa," not "visa versa." (grammatical pet peeve)
If A.I is a mashup of stuff already online, then insofar as that stuff is already online, companies creating A.I for the purpose of supplanting human labor do not need to ensure the perpetuation of humans and their labor.
The company that would be creating this ai would have to have people do the labour. But lets just say for arguments sake somehow weve skipped that and have ai making other ai and improving upon itself. Ok, where did it get that idea from? AI cant think for itself. It would need to "mash up" old research on the subject that was probably only written in theory, which most likely would end up with a worse version of itself if it tried to "self-update". It would need a constant stream of information as again, it doesnt think for itself.
Only humans threat to humans 😢
That and natural disasters, diseases, predators, grizzly bears..
Thank you Jaron and Steve for this video and clarity. Jaron ❤❤❤ love your guitar collection.
Since ai is artificial not authentic, my concern lays with who programs the Gollum (A.I).
I've long been a fan of Jaron's humanistic approach to technology (though, contradicting what is said in the video, he is not precisely a humanist). His book You Are Not a Gadget is required reading for anyone who is interested in technology but queasy about how tech tends to make people and societies more machine-like. Like that book, his approach here is to look at technology with both feet on the ground as an antidote to the crazy prognostications, both pro and con, that dominates discussion of A.I. in the world of TH-cam videos. However, I would flatly contradict Jaron in a couple of specific instances.If he believes that A.I. is no threat, I would ask him to take a trip down to Hollywood, where I am sure that he would readily find numerous strikers who would elaborate on A.I. as a severe threat to their professions. Basically, the big studios want to use A.I. to write movie scripts, and even though they are engorged with capital already, they don't want to spend a few cents on on-set writers, who are employed to rewrite scripts on the fly. It is a ludicrous shame that we are at the point where we want to use machines to do what art is supposed to do, which is to NOT be a machine. My second objection is to the risible notion that capitalism is about cooperation. The fact that Jaron thinks this makes me have doubts about his commitment, after all is said and done, to the whole range of humane ideals I would imagine the real Jaron to have. This is why I don't think he is a humanistI
Great discussion!
Artificial intelligence will be good when regulated by Good people...🤔
"Should we hedge against you being wrong" - - thats just Pascal's wager with AI as God. Lanier responded to this quite well: that AI is not what weve deified it to be.
ai experts all over the world are afraid of the potential of ai. many experts are crying out for ai regulations. sorry but its not 100% certain that ai will be good for everyone.
the human body (brain and mind) is a colony of cells just like an ant colony, willing to sacrifice parts of the colony at the orders of the mind. its not hard for something akin to the human mind to be created within computation. in fact most experts think it will be vastly more capable and intelligent than anyone can imagine.
just like the ant colony will sacrifice the workers and the human body will sacrifice cells, why wouldn't ai be similar?
“Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.” Dune
Exactly
True, slavery still is something embedded in human.
Remember... Herberts idea of Butlerian prohibition included calculators, so by all means keep writing on your clay tablets.
Everyone is being amazed by AIs that regurgitate texts, images and sounds without distinguishing between adequate responses and grotesque hallucinations. Meanwhile, a Brazilian caboclo (a rustic man from a rural area) invents three tools with a single handle. 😀😀
I love your grounded processing because it's understandable
I've found if you want information, go within, but to get the job done on the material world takes time
The computer is a model based off of the function of human body system so it's just programming that needs adjusting lol
The correct coding will be matched to energy systems and there are grids explained in the Torah or the book of knowledge keys of Enoch, and it is advanced stuff hard to understand but perfectly designed
The game is becoming sovereign and part of the process is complete harmony
That involves advanced thought and planning which these machines can accomplish
The laws are written in our language system,the Jewish alphabet in the letters
The wisdom is knowing how the emanations work, and how it can be used in safe ways, such as atomic energy and power consumption etc
The physics is understanding that now we don't need to destroy everything with an atomic bomb blast,we can use computers to simulate the experience without causing physical harm
The misuse of power has extended to control and manipulate instead of service to mankind
The AI could be brilliant, but just knowing your name and birthdate,connects you to higher information about yourself, which in itself could end bad with online fraud with the financial system
The connection between man and machine has to be helpful not harmful to all
The true power is finding pathways to connecting what we already have, and making it better than before
I enjoy the freedom and speed of AI capabilities but still prefer having full sovereignty to choose what I want and having no choice or ways up and out of poverty
The connection between me and spirit is stronger because I have autism which sometimes technology helps more, sometimes less than the average person
It's great for learning but terrible for user friendliness as I don't normally trust technology 😂 seems contradictory but hey 😂
Science and religion don't mix with each other. I personally believe they are polar opposites of each other. One is grounded in information, the other in faith. But even still, this is complete nonsense.
"The correct coding will be matched to energy systems and there are grids explained in the Torah or the book of knowledge keys of Enoch, and it is advanced stuff hard to understand but perfectly designed
The game is becoming sovereign and part of the process is complete harmony
That involves advanced thought and planning which these machines can accomplish
The laws are written in our language system,the Jewish alphabet in the letters"
This seems to be an odd change of stance. Targeting TikTok but leaving silicone valley as ethically sound? This is something that all small number of people have invested time and research into and that's where it should stay until requested or made available for those who want it. Keep "we" out of this please.
we have to let the ais go free
I think the AI's will be ( In a caring sort of way :) "Soooooo, What are we going to do with these humans. They are going to loose their minds"
I agree with Jaron as well when he says that what he says about China can be understood as racist and yes, I think it is.
On my part I am not afraid about China, a nation that build a WALL (curiously not noticed by Marco Polo despite that according to him, he was appointed as Governor of a Chinese province by the emperor himself LOL) to protect herself from invasion is not expansionist, while USA et al waged wars since the end of WW II (1945) till now and before it was UK waging wars against practically all major nations, many minnows and even tribes (Maoris and Zulus, etc) since the end of the 17th century (including USA in 1814 when they burned the White House) dubbed by historians as "gunboat diplomacy" (UK bombed with impunity for three days the city of Copenhagen during the Napoleonic Wars to force the Danes to surrender their fleet).
Jaron is afraid of Tik-Tok but not Microsoft..., well, it is a matter of tastes I believe... pick your poison...
On my part, I am afraid of a system that allows people to make money without working while they sleep literally), a system that allows to accumulate too much money (fake of FIAT if you wish, pseudo money that creates pseudo money...) in very few hands, a system that encourages celebrity against TALENT, fake geniuses and moguls that switch to "philanthropists"...
If there were so many genius now as some weasels claim, we should have by now about ten thousand Mona Lisas, to say the least...
Perhaps we can get that many using AI LOL...
This! ❤
A tool has the morality of the hand that wheels it
A person cannot compete with a machine and a machine cannot compete with a person because a person has SOUL.
The problem is that nowadays speaking about SOUL is like speaking about ghosts and superstition for a very good reason, people who believe in souls are not afraid to die and have MORALS LOL. This statement answers the question posed by Jaron about communism, why we don't create a system that can fulfill all human needs without the need to work ? Simple answer: then, who will be the waiter and who will be the FAT CAT? This is the answer...
Human jobs are the ones that cannot be performed by animals or machines, it is as simple as this, and technology changes the equation all the time... and we need to ADAPT to that, take for instance, if we need to build a pyramid now we will not use armies of workers as the pharaohs did (an anachronistic Keynesian stimulus to the economy pre Keynes which is used today under the banner of Ukraine's war).
Thus, AI is here to stay, and people will have to give way or become "volunteers" as people who maintain steam trains today.
Owr job is to EDUCATE and prepare these people to perform jobs that cannot be performed by machines and AI, and paradoxically, AI can help with this as well.
A job in disuse today is the job of PRIESTS, these jobs cannot be fulfilled with AI and they are in dire necessity (not demand, which are different things altogether), especially Catholics, in my opinion.
"Owr job is to EDUCATE and prepare these people..."
Do you mean that technocrats, central programmers etc = EDUCATORS & "these people" = everybody else?
Parasitism appears to be a fundamental property of existence itself -
I guess at 38 i am no longer a young viewer... thanks for the confidence de-boost. ;-P
Sorry, Jaron. Capitalisme is about all against all, not all help all. That will never change.
no, it's human nature that inclines towards all against all.
@@IRGhost0 It's weird how it's always called "Human nature" but also never stops being promoted by the people in power.
I only think of time machine 😂😂to know what impact AI will have on humanity!!!! Then i will comeback to give time travel interview 😅😂
I agree with Jaron, a computer is just another machine as simple as a hammer and AI is just adjustment of functions (function setting in the context of real analysis) the problem we have now is that we lost the sense of PHILOSOPHY the Schoolmen had, if they were alive now they would "solve" this problem in a second: the machine does not have WILL (volition).
This simply thing cannot be understood now by most people for the simple reason that we have been converted into atheists and materialists, it is not that computers were "humanized" (adding people's attributes like soul and will) it is THE OTHER WAY AROUND, namely WE HAVE BEEN metamorphosed into MACHINES LOL.
Cope
100 years from now:
- ‘Am I a Robert, or I’m a human is the question to be’ (Maybe 🤷♂️)
Ban TikTok
SOON BOT PHOBIAS or boogie bots again too. Endlessly spread hate lies & demonize as usual
Ban TikTok