In a PA or Studio Situation, a Power Conditioner is crucial. It certainly solved a lot of our issues with Noise on stage. Concerning guitar effect pedals, amp hum and "switch on-off"-clacks on the main PA when turning an amp off and everything was muted. This is even more true, when you're playing little clubs, where maybe some of the light is also plugged into the same power line.
Based on you video, i had an electrician pull 4 new cables from the main fuse box to from listening room, and what a difference it made. I think i was sharing the power with the kitchen before which caused some humming and other bits of noise, now i´m just a happy camper. I also know people in the high end audio branch who use conditioners and it sounds like there systems are being chocked, the volume is lower but i don´t think it sound any better... Cheers..
Great help in educating me and "Conditioning" my mind to be observant of my power supply. I do see how important it is now, I didn't used to think it was even an issue.
What he said about the ground is very true. That's why Isolated ground receptacles exist. Medical equipment, high end audio equipment, etc.. should always be connected to an Isolated ground receptacle.
The best way is to use an isolation transformer at the mains outlet. The induced voltage on the secondary winding will be noise free and there are no ground loop issues with this method. This will help to resolve other equipment noise lssues with poor cabling, interconnect shorts, inductive pickup etc.
Great insight Mr. Shultz. However I must ask.. what about higher end power conditioners that have general outlets for power protection and conditioning and as well special amp and subwoofer outlets built into them and which are labled as 'high current outlets for Amp / Subs' (such as the Panamax m5300pm?) for the Amps and Subwoofers that may require all the power they can get? Are these fine to use w/o worrying about compromising the sound while still filtering out what's necessary in conjunction with surge protection?
I truly hope you can sort this out, in my history helping people with these kinds of issue snapping a popping are typically signal path but it could be anything. Sure hope you find it soon. Rick
I'm going to buy some new loudspeakers soon, two EV ZLX12P active loudspeakers, and I'd like to get a power conditioner for them to protect my investments and other equipment. But I don't know what model I should get. I'm not looking to spend a whole lot one either maybe $150 max. I hear Furman and Monster are the top brands.
Well from your description of the sound it seams non-typical if ac noise but it could be a dimmer switch or something like this that is causing it as well so it could be power. I went to cables as you likely didn't take the cables with you to try in another system. The description of this type of noise is rare for A/C snapping and popping are not A/C generated. Time has taught me to start at the most obvious possibilities, tubes, capacitors first for snapping crackling sounds then faulty cable.
The crackling/popping sounds like tube noise. A new tube can still be bad. Is this noise in both channels? The hum sounds like a ground loop. This can happen with using more than one outlet and it is common where there is multiple routes to ground. My advice is to hire a good electrician to help you get a good ground for your audio gear. They can sort the hum issue out as you plug in your gear. Alternatively try plugging in all your gear in one receptacle or powerstrip to see if it stops the hum
@zotos777 If the hum is created by a ground loop (and it likely is) it very well may help, however you have to actually try it to be sure. Most high-end audio stores will lend you one to try out for a few days. Alternatively you have to try lifting the ground on one of your components some even have a switch built in to them to allow for this. Try to put it upstream of your amp on pre on CD or both first to see if you can avoid having to use it on the amplifier.
no dimmer switch.. happens when no cables are plugged into the amp.. tubes dont make the same sounds outside of the house.. amp was fully recapped and retubed
Okay it sounds like something in the signal path not a power issue so could it be a slightly shorted interconect cable as well try different I/C's and see if that helps.
You know it almost sounds like it could be a lifted ground on a RCA socket or cable connection as well I have heard that kind of noise come from this as well. Cables should be a suspect here.
I just stumbled on your vid & it got me thinking about my system in which I have a power conditioner/surge. Very informative. Problem is: When I introduced the p-cond to my system, I picked up a ground loop hum on every function except tv w/set top box. I unplugged every other component so I believe it's the p-cond is causing the hum(if that's possible). Without the p-conditioner, but with the c-box, no hum. My power fluctuates wildly during hurricanes(up to 126v) but is pretty stable at 119-21v normally, according to my pc. I'm afraid to dump the pc because it does do what it's suppose to(hurricane Irene) but the (grnd loop)hum is awful on all other sources. Any suggestions what I could do differently? I've lived with this for years because I can't find a good resolution while still protecting my HT syst from surges. Thanks for any advice. I would be VERY grateful.
Box0Rain ground loops are created by competing grounds. You can apply a unit called a "ground lift" by "lifting" the ground on different components using the ground lift as you're tool. With this you can most likely discover what component is creating the ground loop. the ground lift removed the ground pin from the wall. It is possible you have something that is not plugged into the power conditioner but still part part of your audio system. This item might be plugged into another wall socket and that's where I would start to look. If you can identify a component like this maybe a subwoofer or amplifier that may have been to distant to plug into the power conditioner but is still connected to the system ground via interconnects. Start here and work your way through each component, often you have to do more than one. I'll try to cover ground loops in another episode soon. If you need to lift a ground on any component that has one I have to recommend you contact an electrician to make sure it's safe to do and meets insurance requirements.
Well you have ruled out all you can. It is time to contact the manufacture and see what they can do to help you. You can always try a power conditioner and let us know if it does work for you, I would consider a transformer based unit to decouple from your house power. If you have a multi-meter you can check for potential issue in your power, test for DC on your line and test AC to see if you have issues on neutral or ground. Good luck these can be very difficult to sort through.
@evillemonkey I have tried them and have used them on occasion in show conditions so yes have a good one handy I suggest the bigger the better if it is transformer-based product.
question - recently purchased tube amp.. had all the caps and tubes replaced because i thought it could have been either that was causing a crackling/popping and slight hum in my amp.. and it was clean at the music store where it was purchased and fixed.. but still is noisy @ my home. 60cycle hum is much louder @ my house, especially through an amp (tube or solid state, bass or guitar) so i'm assuming i have dirty electricity already.. would a power conditioner help with the strange noise?
the thing is... why would it be something in the signal path or a cable connection if it doesnt make the sound anywhere else except when plugged in @ my house..
the thing is it only makes this sound in my home.. i realize it sounds like tube noise but it obvs isnt. its not really a hum as much as intermittent high harmonics.. which once again sounds like tube problems/failure but it isnt.. i tried a ground lift and that also didnt work.. i've tried plugging it into various outlets.. unplugging almost everything else in the house.. and nothing has worked
My amplifier makes loud clicks and pops when lights are switched on and off in my house. I can't build a dedicated line as it's not my house. I guess I'll look into a conditioner. SMH.
In most cases, a power conditioner is not going to make any system sound better. The power supplies on most pieces of equipment are perfectly capable of delivering clean DC from normal power. The purpose of the power cond. is to deal with ABNORMAL power: spikes, harmonics, surges and dips that the power supply was never designed to tolerate. A power cond. is like insurance on your audio/video equipment. If its working properly, you shouldn't even know it's there.
@NoMoreVanilla I agree, especially since most energy companies do not create power in the best means. For example here in NV our power company NVenergy tells the population that their power is not clean and in fact is dirty and everyone should use a conditioner of some sort, if not that then definitely a surge protector. I have thus far not ran into any system that didn't benefit from a power conditioner. when suing one the sound stage quiets and opens up greatly.
I understand where you're coming from but if you're plugged directly into the wall socket you have absolutely zero protection from surges or brownouts, your equipment will be destroyed in seconds. I'd rather have a power conditioner then no protection at all and lose a little bit of musical whatever if you can even hear it anyways.
Mmmm, you kinda contradict yourself. The whole point of a PLC is to remove the garbage coming on your mains which should be implicit. If you have dirty power, a PLC will make your system work better. The main thing is to figure what types of problem your mains might have: surges/spikes, voltage drops, over/under voltage, noise, etc. Very few PLCs deal with more than one problem. Also, check your home's grounding too.
In a PA or Studio Situation, a Power Conditioner is crucial. It certainly solved a lot of our issues with Noise on stage. Concerning guitar effect pedals, amp hum and "switch on-off"-clacks on the main PA when turning an amp off and everything was muted. This is even more true, when you're playing little clubs, where maybe some of the light is also plugged into the same power line.
That's a very useful explanation Rick ! Many thanks for sharing your knowledge ! Peace & Music from Paris France
Thank you so much!!! A Honest and very transparent explanation.
Based on you video, i had an electrician pull 4 new cables from the main fuse box to from listening room, and what a difference it made. I think i was sharing the power with the kitchen before which caused some humming and other bits of noise, now i´m just a happy camper. I also know people in the high end audio branch who use conditioners and it sounds like there systems are being chocked, the volume is lower but i don´t think it sound any better... Cheers..
Great help in educating me and "Conditioning" my mind to be observant of my power supply. I do see how important it is now, I didn't used to think it was even an issue.
Super educational and really helpful. I have audible interference in my new budget/mid system therefore will give a power conditioner a try.
What he said about the ground is very true. That's why Isolated ground receptacles exist. Medical equipment, high end audio equipment, etc.. should always be connected to an Isolated ground receptacle.
one of the best explanations! thank you.
The best way is to use an isolation transformer at the mains outlet. The induced voltage on the secondary winding will be noise free and there are no ground loop issues with this method. This will help to resolve other equipment noise lssues with poor cabling, interconnect shorts, inductive pickup etc.
I love your take on power conditioning!
I like a simple power conditioner mainly for surge/lightning protection. I dun like to see smoke. 😂
Great insight Mr. Shultz. However I must ask.. what about higher end power conditioners that have general outlets for power protection and conditioning and as well special amp and subwoofer outlets built into them and which are labled as 'high current outlets for Amp / Subs' (such as the Panamax m5300pm?) for the Amps and Subwoofers that may require all the power they can get? Are these fine to use w/o worrying about compromising the sound while still filtering out what's necessary in conjunction with surge protection?
I truly hope you can sort this out, in my history helping people with these kinds of issue snapping a popping are typically signal path but it could be anything. Sure hope you find it soon.
Rick
Top quality advice, well said.
Very useful opinion. Now at 2020, there is a new power Condision devices like AudioQuest’s Niagara 3000 , what about this device ? Thank you
I'm going to buy some new loudspeakers soon, two EV ZLX12P active loudspeakers, and I'd like to get a power conditioner for them to protect my investments and other equipment. But I don't know what model I should get. I'm not looking to spend a whole lot one either maybe $150 max. I hear Furman and Monster are the top brands.
Well from your description of the sound it seams non-typical if ac noise but it could be a dimmer switch or something like this that is causing it as well so it could be power. I went to cables as you likely didn't take the cables with you to try in another system. The description of this type of noise is rare for A/C snapping and popping are not A/C generated. Time has taught me to start at the most obvious possibilities, tubes, capacitors first for snapping crackling sounds then faulty cable.
The crackling/popping sounds like tube noise. A new tube can still be bad. Is this noise in both channels? The hum sounds like a ground loop. This can happen with using more than one outlet and it is common where there is multiple routes to ground. My advice is to hire a good electrician to help you get a good ground for your audio gear. They can sort the hum issue out as you plug in your gear. Alternatively try plugging in all your gear in one receptacle or powerstrip to see if it stops the hum
@zotos777
If the hum is created by a ground loop (and it likely is) it very well may help, however you have to actually try it to be sure. Most high-end audio stores will lend you one to try out for a few days. Alternatively you have to try lifting the ground on one of your components some even have a switch built in to them to allow for this. Try to put it upstream of your amp on pre on CD or both first to see if you can avoid having to use it on the amplifier.
no dimmer switch.. happens when no cables are plugged into the amp.. tubes dont make the same sounds outside of the house.. amp was fully recapped and retubed
Very helpfull thank you.
great video, very informative! Thanks!
Okay it sounds like something in the signal path not a power issue so could it be a slightly shorted interconect cable as well try different I/C's and see if that helps.
would it be recommended if your doing shows at different locations?
thank you for your help! i didnt realize this would be such a lengthy dialouge! haha
hopefully i can sort this out!
You know it almost sounds like it could be a lifted ground on a RCA socket or cable connection as well I have heard that kind of noise come from this as well. Cables should be a suspect here.
Cant u just use a surge protector?
I just stumbled on your vid & it got me thinking about my system in which I have a power conditioner/surge. Very informative. Problem is: When I introduced the p-cond to my system, I picked up a ground loop hum on every function except tv w/set top box. I unplugged every other component so I believe it's the p-cond is causing the hum(if that's possible). Without the p-conditioner, but with the c-box, no hum. My power fluctuates wildly during hurricanes(up to 126v) but is pretty stable at 119-21v normally, according to my pc. I'm afraid to dump the pc because it does do what it's suppose to(hurricane Irene) but the (grnd loop)hum is awful on all other sources. Any suggestions what I could do differently? I've lived with this for years because I can't find a good resolution while still protecting my HT syst from surges. Thanks for any advice. I would be VERY grateful.
Box0Rain ground loops are created by competing grounds. You can apply a unit called a "ground lift" by "lifting" the ground on different components using the ground lift as you're tool. With this you can most likely discover what component is creating the ground loop. the ground lift removed the ground pin from the wall.
It is possible you have something that is not plugged into the power conditioner but still part part of your audio system. This item might be plugged into another wall socket and that's where I would start to look. If you can identify a component like this maybe a subwoofer or amplifier that may have been to distant to plug into the power conditioner but is still connected to the system ground via interconnects. Start here and work your way through each component, often you have to do more than one. I'll try to cover ground loops in another episode soon. If you need to lift a ground on any component that has one I have to recommend you contact an electrician to make sure it's safe to do and meets insurance requirements.
Well you have ruled out all you can. It is time to contact the manufacture and see what they can do to help you. You can always try a power conditioner and let us know if it does work for you, I would consider a transformer based unit to decouple from your house power. If you have a multi-meter you can check for potential issue in your power, test for DC on your line and test AC to see if you have issues on neutral or ground. Good luck these can be very difficult to sort through.
@evillemonkey
I have tried them and have used them on occasion in show conditions so yes have a good one handy I suggest the bigger the better if it is transformer-based product.
question - recently purchased tube amp.. had all the caps and tubes replaced because i thought it could have been either that was causing a crackling/popping and slight hum in my amp.. and it was clean at the music store where it was purchased and fixed.. but still is noisy @ my home. 60cycle hum is much louder @ my house, especially through an amp (tube or solid state, bass or guitar) so i'm assuming i have dirty electricity already.. would a power conditioner help with the strange noise?
the thing is... why would it be something in the signal path or a cable connection if it doesnt make the sound anywhere else except when plugged in @ my house..
the thing is it only makes this sound in my home.. i realize it sounds like tube noise but it obvs isnt. its not really a hum as much as intermittent high harmonics.. which once again sounds like tube problems/failure but it isnt.. i tried a ground lift and that also didnt work.. i've tried plugging it into various outlets.. unplugging almost everything else in the house.. and nothing has worked
excellent..
My amplifier makes loud clicks and pops when lights are switched on and off in my house. I can't build a dedicated line as it's not my house. I guess I'll look into a conditioner. SMH.
Thanks for all the info. Finally a straight answer- as "straight" as it's gonna get at least:)
In most cases, a power conditioner is not going to make any system sound better. The power supplies on most pieces of equipment are perfectly capable of delivering clean DC from normal power. The purpose of the power cond. is to deal with ABNORMAL power: spikes, harmonics, surges and dips that the power supply was never designed to tolerate. A power cond. is like insurance on your audio/video equipment. If its working properly, you shouldn't even know it's there.
@NoMoreVanilla
I agree, especially since most energy companies do not create power in the best means. For example here in NV our power company NVenergy tells the population that their power is not clean and in fact is dirty and everyone should use a conditioner of some sort, if not that then definitely a surge protector. I have thus far not ran into any system that didn't benefit from a power conditioner. when suing one the sound stage quiets and opens up greatly.
I understand where you're coming from but if you're plugged directly into the wall socket you have absolutely zero protection from surges or brownouts, your equipment will be destroyed in seconds. I'd rather have a power conditioner then no protection at all and lose a little bit of musical whatever if you can even hear it anyways.
Mmmm, you kinda contradict yourself. The whole point of a PLC is to remove the garbage coming on your mains which should be implicit. If you have dirty power, a PLC will make your system work better. The main thing is to figure what types of problem your mains might have: surges/spikes, voltage drops, over/under voltage, noise, etc. Very few PLCs deal with more than one problem. Also, check your home's grounding too.