How do the capacitors and filtration devices in the power conditioner differ from the capacitors and filtration devices in the power supplies of any decent piece of audio equipment?
It's not difficult. Simple engineering really. Even if they both uses the same components, more filtration = increased reduction of EMI. Could go from 20dB reduction to 40dB reduction within a system depending on the components. Lower is better. Simple as that.
Your demonstration lost credit when you didn't simply plug conditioner you are selling in the outlet shown to have noise. How do we know that conditioner is even plugged in?
There will always be people out to make a fast buck out of a common misunderstanding regarding technical issues. We know that noise and RF modulated audio can travel through the domestic wiring: this is how cordless baby alarms work. An issue here is amplifier designers fit power conditioners into amplifiers by default: the smoothing capacitors, mains transformer, rectifier perform the function of mains filtration and there's also RF filter components in hifi amplifier power block, already. This is audiofoolery at its maximum: don't waste your money.
Except each designer uses different level of implementation and quality. Some amps have poor filtering, some don't. You don't know how good your amp is at filtering EMI without trying a high quality power conditioner. If it makes a difference, then clearly your amp isn't quite as well designed as you thought. If the difference is inaudible, then it's a well designed amp. Also EMC standard differ depending on the product class. The standards are not designed around what humans can perceive, but what allows a product to work without fault and/or preventing said product from interfering with others. As long as X amp still works without any faults and/or it doesn't interfere with other electronics enough to cause them to have a fault - it's a pass. This is the bare minimum for EMC mitigation. Power conditioners aim to improve this beyond the bare minimum legal requirements, to the point where said product is performing at maximum performance.
@@campersruincod6134 I build and design my own amplifiers. Common mode choke\capacitor arrangements lack inductance and sufficient capacitance to block RF and lower frequency interference. I produce my own music, so interference is especially important. I usually have common mode chokes tuned at 1Khz, in addition to RF in series: low cost. Interference is particular issue with PWR converters, since sine wave is synthesised from switch mode, RF appearing at output. I still think snake oil is going on but assuming funds not an issue, it's harmless.
@@hoofbags it's definitely not snake oil so as long as it's an actually good power conditioner, say like a Furman Elite or Reference. Is it diminishing returns level of performance gain? Yes. You will hear larger difference from upgrading other parts of your system. It's more for people wanting to optimise the last bit of their system to maximise performance.
Doesn't show where the conditioner is plugged in. It may not even be plugged into the wall. You gotta do better than that when selling your own product. Should have had it in the same outlet to show it working
I wonder if the speaker in his noise sniffing device is hi fidelity and audiophile grade. Its important to be able to hear all the resolution and dynamics in the noise you're sniffing.
Man...I ALMOST bought one of those audio prism units he used in the beginning at goodwill for a few bucks but wasn't sure how it worked .. I went back and it's freaking gone..
Straight forward, you should put a link to that model conditioner featured. I just ordered a rack style Furman for my home stereo. I'm excited to see the difference.
Can you do this exact test again, but instead of going to a different room, use the same outlet for both showing the noise on the line without conditioning; then again, showing the reduced noise with the power conditioner. The variable to hold constant is the specific outlet and its electrical energy.
Better yet, show amplifier output wave samples with & without the conditioner. Any amplifying system worth it's salt should have a differential input that rejects common-mode noise, like conducted noise in alternating current. Am I wrong?
I found that my audio system performs best when I plug power cable of DAC and laptop into power conditioner and plug power cable of amplifier directly into wall socket.
My system usually sounds great but sometimes it's not it sounds like it lacks fidelity. If I listen around 2 to 4 am it sounds great. I wonder if it could need a power conditioner. I live in a house. The electrician said my is set up to receive more electricity than any other house in the neighborhood, whatever that means. Where can I find a power conditioner like the one in your video? Have a great day
I think it has to do with weather we pay for music or get it free. Junk in junk out. Remastered doesn't mean anything I/you can put our version out there & call it Remastered. also how old the capacitors in our amplifiers are will cause it to constantly sound different
for where i live the power is good, clean and is produced at a steady rate so i turned the volume almost maximum without any music ,etc. , no noise whatsoever, if there isn't any audible interference then a power conditioner is as useless as this video for anyone that doesn't have a power problem. contact your power provider they can back this.
this is one of those vids where you wish they were pushing a product. But, what's he selling ? an AudioPrism noise sniffer ? wtf all I can see is a blurry strip he's connecting it to. Is it a Lenny ? a HiFiU ? or Axpona or is that his mom ?
None of what the guy is claiming is accurate. All decent electronics already filter out mains noise. That means that power conditioners just remove noise that ,in the end, wouldn't affect the equipment. Also, adding noise would just make the noise floor higher. It wouldn't somehow "kill dynamics and detail". I'll give him that dynamics are limited by noise but in an overwhelming majority of cases, the noise is already so low that it doesn't noticeably decrease the dynamic range of a system.
Better yet, show amplifier output wave samples with & without the conditioner. Any amplifying system worth it's salt should have a differential input that rejects common-mode noise, like conducted noise in alternating current. Am I wrong?
@@kacperuminski1547 OK. BTW, I've been designing & building HiFi for 54 years. I have some form of synesthesia that affects my hearing (and more) so I designed & built complete systems & tuned them until they produced a sound I found correct (pleasant if you like).
Nice Sadurni Acoustics speakers. Noise would be a real factor with those drivers. Any idea what it takes to get a pair of them back up to speed? I have a 3/4 complete set that lacks the woofer horns and some crossover components.
If the AC noise can be eradicated as simple as that powerstrip looking device you have there then it’ll be an easy thing as well for the big manufacturers like PS Audio and the ohers and it’ll not be branded as a snake oil
Hello! Does anybody know the correct sequence to connect Furman and UPS? Power - Furman - UPS or Power - UPS - Furman?? Cause I know that if you connect an UPS to the Furman it may cause the fact that the batteries work more than requested... on the other side APC suggestes to connect their UPS directly to the power instead to another device (in this case a Furman). That being said I'm a bit confused... Any suggestions? Thank you!
yes... how about this, everyone that has a garden hose deals with the approximately the same pressure; different brands and types of nozzles; greatly affect the type and how well it dose there are some better than others. I am just saying.
Well I guess, I could easily put all my Stereo on the 1st leg of power coming into the BOX, getting it's power before all those other appliances ? Hummmmmmm
and none of these reviewers has been able to illustrate the difference in sound quality using a conditioner so from my point of view the reviewers are the trolls.
God, imagine the effects of this noise on my computer! If even a single bit gets “distorted”, it could lead to incorrect results or even a crash. I should put a power conditioner on my computer, too, I guess. So I tried it. Guess what - it made my computer faster, and it ran cooler! No, I didn’t actually measure or benchmark it - I can see with my own eyes that it’s faster. If you can’t, you just don’t know what to look for. Someone told me this is nonsense - that the computer already has a power supply that ensures the circuit is optimized for its purpose. Well, I know what I saw with my own eyes. What are you going to believe, a properly-designed circuit - OR YOUR EYES?
Mike Thomas factual, imperial, and methodology evidence is far superior than anecdotal proof, “I think my pc is cooler because I see temperature and it’s faster because someone on the internet said so”
How do the capacitors and filtration devices in the power conditioner differ from the capacitors and filtration devices in the power supplies of any decent piece of audio equipment?
Barry Rodgers - there is a major difference. These guys squeeze the snake extra hard
It's not difficult. Simple engineering really. Even if they both uses the same components, more filtration = increased reduction of EMI. Could go from 20dB reduction to 40dB reduction within a system depending on the components. Lower is better. Simple as that.
Your demonstration lost credit when you didn't simply plug conditioner you are selling in the outlet shown to have noise. How do we know that conditioner is even plugged in?
@jackofalldaves agreed.
Precisely. What's the point? The point of most hifi... SELL!!!!
There will always be people out to make a fast buck out of a common misunderstanding regarding technical issues. We know that noise and RF modulated audio can travel through the domestic wiring: this is how cordless baby alarms work. An issue here is amplifier designers fit power conditioners into amplifiers by default: the smoothing capacitors, mains transformer, rectifier perform the function of mains filtration and there's also RF filter components in hifi amplifier power block, already. This is audiofoolery at its maximum: don't waste your money.
Except each designer uses different level of implementation and quality. Some amps have poor filtering, some don't. You don't know how good your amp is at filtering EMI without trying a high quality power conditioner.
If it makes a difference, then clearly your amp isn't quite as well designed as you thought. If the difference is inaudible, then it's a well designed amp.
Also EMC standard differ depending on the product class. The standards are not designed around what humans can perceive, but what allows a product to work without fault and/or preventing said product from interfering with others. As long as X amp still works without any faults and/or it doesn't interfere with other electronics enough to cause them to have a fault - it's a pass. This is the bare minimum for EMC mitigation. Power conditioners aim to improve this beyond the bare minimum legal requirements, to the point where said product is performing at maximum performance.
@@campersruincod6134 I build and design my own amplifiers. Common mode choke\capacitor arrangements lack inductance and sufficient capacitance to block RF and lower frequency interference. I produce my own music, so interference is especially important. I usually have common mode chokes tuned at 1Khz, in addition to RF in series: low cost. Interference is particular issue with PWR converters, since sine wave is synthesised from switch mode, RF appearing at output. I still think snake oil is going on but assuming funds not an issue, it's harmless.
@@hoofbags it's definitely not snake oil so as long as it's an actually good power conditioner, say like a Furman Elite or Reference. Is it diminishing returns level of performance gain? Yes. You will hear larger difference from upgrading other parts of your system. It's more for people wanting to optimise the last bit of their system to maximise performance.
"As I turn it up in volume, you can see..." it gets louder.
Tom Faron went right over your head 😹
I saw that too !
:)
😅
Doesn't show where the conditioner is plugged in. It may not even be plugged into the wall. You gotta do better than that when selling your own product. Should have had it in the same outlet to show it working
I wonder if the speaker in his noise sniffing device is hi fidelity and audiophile grade. Its important to be able to hear all the resolution and dynamics in the noise you're sniffing.
Man...I ALMOST bought one of those audio prism units he used in the beginning at goodwill for a few bucks but wasn't sure how it worked ..
I went back and it's freaking gone..
wouldnt the amp just filter this energy? seems like a basic necessity in an amp to use clean power.. do ferrite rings on the input cable help?
what make and model unit is that?
Straight forward, you should put a link to that model conditioner featured. I just ordered a rack style Furman for my home stereo. I'm excited to see the difference.
I ordered Furman too,I'm too excited to see the differences.So how's yours?
Are there really a noticeable difference especially those 60hz hum?
Is there a difference ? I mean a noticible difference
The difference is tremendous. If you have Furman you see it, if you don't have it you do not see it.
Thanks for the video & demonstration. 👍🏽
What’s the name of the power conditioner? Do you have any recommendations?
He works with Audience so it would be one of these: audience-av.com/conditioners/
You can phone the company to get a recommendation for your system.
Can you do this exact test again, but instead of going to a different room, use the same outlet for both showing the noise on the line without conditioning; then again, showing the reduced noise with the power conditioner. The variable to hold constant is the specific outlet and its electrical energy.
What brand is that conditioner you were testing lenny?
dean setiono - looks like a brand new
Better yet, show amplifier output wave samples with & without the conditioner. Any amplifying system worth it's salt should have a differential input that rejects common-mode noise, like conducted noise in alternating current. Am I wrong?
Every amp does but each one varies in implementation and performance.
It would help to hear how quiet it is, without the background music playing over how quiet it's supposed to be...
The EXACT SAME LOGIC is used in old telephones. Many people are "tapped" on the line. The more on the main wire the greater the "static".
What does the passive conditioner do to the impedance my gear sees?
I found that my audio system performs best when I plug power cable of DAC and laptop into power conditioner and plug power cable of amplifier directly into wall socket.
Thank you, will definitely get one for my small house theater.
My system usually sounds great but sometimes it's not it sounds like it lacks fidelity. If I listen around 2 to 4 am it sounds great. I wonder if it could need a power conditioner. I live in a house. The electrician said my is set up to receive more electricity than any other house in the neighborhood, whatever that means. Where can I find a power conditioner like the one in your video? Have a great day
I think it has to do with weather we pay for music or get it free. Junk in junk out. Remastered doesn't mean anything I/you can put our version out there & call it Remastered. also how old the capacitors in our amplifiers are will cause it to constantly sound different
for where i live the power is good, clean and is produced at a steady rate so i turned the volume almost maximum without any music ,etc. , no noise whatsoever, if there isn't any audible interference then a power conditioner is as useless as this video for anyone that doesn't have a power problem. contact your power provider they can back this.
Comedy gold! And you kept a straight face, well done!
this is one of those vids where you wish they were pushing a product. But, what's he selling ? an AudioPrism noise sniffer ? wtf all I can see is a blurry strip he's connecting it to.
Is it a Lenny ? a HiFiU ? or Axpona or is that his mom ?
None of what the guy is claiming is accurate. All decent electronics already filter out mains noise. That means that power conditioners just remove noise that ,in the end, wouldn't affect the equipment. Also, adding noise would just make the noise floor higher. It wouldn't somehow "kill dynamics and detail". I'll give him that dynamics are limited by noise but in an overwhelming majority of cases, the noise is already so low that it doesn't noticeably decrease the dynamic range of a system.
Better yet, show amplifier output wave samples with & without the conditioner. Any amplifying system worth it's salt should have a differential input that rejects common-mode noise, like conducted noise in alternating current. Am I wrong?
@@DataWaveTaGo AFAIK a very noisy power supply can sometimes cause audible noise but it has to be REALLY noisy. Otherwise, you're all correct.
@@kacperuminski1547 OK. BTW, I've been designing & building HiFi for 54 years. I have some form of synesthesia that affects my hearing (and more) so I designed & built complete systems & tuned them until they produced a sound I found correct (pleasant if you like).
@@DataWaveTaGo Ok, good for you! How is it relevant to the discussion at hand?
@@DataWaveTaGo Just to clarify, I meant a noisy PS from another device that isn't in the system like a computer.
Nice Sadurni Acoustics speakers. Noise would be a real factor with those drivers. Any idea what it takes to get a pair of them back up to speed? I have a 3/4 complete set that lacks the woofer horns and some crossover components.
Anyone know what the name of the tool he is using to amplify the noise of a unconditioned outlet?
Can you read ?
@@MrSummitville don't be a prick
@@milesfantastic Don't be a lazy asshole ... READ !
Hello, what is your opininon on SurgeX XR 315? Thanks.
If the AC noise can be eradicated as simple as that powerstrip looking device you have there then it’ll be an easy thing as well for the big manufacturers like PS Audio and the ohers and it’ll not be branded as a snake oil
Thanks for this video
Hello! Does anybody know the correct sequence to connect Furman and UPS? Power - Furman - UPS or Power - UPS - Furman??
Cause I know that if you connect an UPS to the Furman it may cause the fact that the batteries work more than requested... on the other side APC suggestes to connect their UPS directly to the power instead to another device (in this case a Furman).
That being said I'm a bit confused...
Any suggestions?
Thank you!
can you name some options an a budget ? im looking for one for studio monitors
Tacima CS947 6 Way
Sorry but even a $20 boom box from Walgreens has a regulated power supply that will "filter" out line noise.
yes... how about this, everyone that has a garden hose deals with the approximately the same pressure; different brands and types of nozzles; greatly affect the type and how well it dose there are some better than others. I am just saying.
@@stilllooking39 That's a false analogy.
nope@@kacperuminski1547
@@stilllooking39 Yes, it is. The described situation hasn't got anything in common with the topic at hand. That is, by definition, a false analogy.
In Your eyes; or ears as the case may be... I bid you good day sir. @@kacperuminski1547
You forgot to mention the reception.
power conditioner a 500.00 upscale work for surge protector
Well I guess, I could easily put all my Stereo on the 1st leg of power coming into the BOX, getting it's power before all those other appliances ? Hummmmmmm
Don’t forget to shampoo your power before conditioner.
Modern appliances/made after 1995 are required by the fcc to have noise filters / chokes in them, there's no need for this
None of these negative commenters give their first hand test results, proving they are trolls in search of an outlet. lol
and none of these reviewers has been able to illustrate the difference in sound quality using a conditioner so from my point of view the reviewers are the trolls.
You want them to illustrate the difference via a TH-cam video? Wow.
I got a power conditioner about 15!years ago and it just murdered my dynamics!
Must have been a bad one.
That was a bad power conditioner.
God, imagine the effects of this noise on my computer! If even a single bit gets “distorted”, it could lead to incorrect results or even a crash. I should put a power conditioner on my computer, too, I guess.
So I tried it. Guess what - it made my computer faster, and it ran cooler! No, I didn’t actually measure or benchmark it - I can see with my own eyes that it’s faster. If you can’t, you just don’t know what to look for.
Someone told me this is nonsense - that the computer already has a power supply that ensures the circuit is optimized for its purpose. Well, I know what I saw with my own eyes. What are you going to believe, a properly-designed circuit - OR YOUR EYES?
Mike Thomas placebo?
Mike Thomas factual, imperial, and methodology evidence is far superior than anecdotal proof, “I think my pc is cooler because I see temperature and it’s faster because someone on the internet said so”
Denmire I think you may have missed the sarcasm.
Mike Thomas oops my bad, I guess it wasnt obvious enough for me lol, good bait tho I deserve a wooosh
This was the comment I was looking for on this video. Thanks. :)
I made one of those,,,, I had a fractures mini speaker that would sound exactly like that!!!! Hummmmm
great video
I wonder just how many bs homepages threre are on youtube. Lenny is seen here demonstrating yet another power conditioner.
I like air conditioner
I love my hair conditionner, it makes my hair smooth without cancelling the dynamics. It is Pantene Pro-V but the one with snake oil.
best video on the internet..
But conditioners rob bass and highs drastically. Lmao that's what other channels are saying.
I smell bullshit.