A lot of straight people don’t realize that they are not always playing the “man” or “woman” role even within a straight relationship. If a husband cooks dinner, does that make him the wife? No lol. It’s the same in a gay relationship. Straight culture is also obsessed with gender roles. Being gay is already going against your gender role, so it’s easier to let gender roles go in general. It’s also completely different depending on the couple! A particular person can bring out a more feminine or masculine side in you. Which is quite the same for straight relationships actually, even if it’s not spoken as explicitly all the time.
I'll be honest Im straight and I was struggling to understand what Neal is asking really... nothing about my relationship feels like picking up a gendered role. Figuring out who does what chores feels like semantics and doesn't really feel like a defining aspect of a relationship. "whos the man and whos the woman?" for what? what do you mean? in bed? don't worry about what happens there you're not invited. Like who does the dishes? I dunno whoever wants them clean the most at the given moment? who cares? Im not exactly a spring chicken but even to me viewing a relationship through that lens feels antiquated.
@@notednuanceAgreed. Straight female here and also I’m confused by Neal’s question. It’s kinda bizarre. With this logic then single men living alone never cook/clean the house/do laundry?
It's all an acting job no matter the orientation. The only thing that matters is can this person bring out the best in you. These roles don't really hold anyone back it's really just can you/will you do it. Nothing is holding anyone back so everyone should be capable of doing almost everything. The only thing a man can't do is get pregnant but outside of that we all can do the same thing. What many people, mainly in straight relationships, focus on is what is gonna make the man look good which kinda shows that this relationship isn't so much teamwork but badges and trophies for one person.
I'm so glad that Matteo pointed out how tied homophobia is to misogyny! This is something that's become EXTREMELY apparent to me the older (and more open) I become and is also apparent once you look at how society (and especially male-dominated social structures) treat trans people as well.
All you have to do is look at the transphobia going around. All these cis straight transphobes ever look at are trans women, never trans men. All the bathroom talk is directed at trans women, not trans men (as though cis women are going to feel comfortable with a bearded trans man wearing a sweatshirt and jeans in the same bathroom with them but this *never* comes up in any of the arguments).
The logic of the patriarchy is: men must idolize men, but not love. Love is a female thing, females are weak and must be subjugated; men subjugating other men is the same as turning them weak. As long as women are seen as inferior and incapable, gay men will never be safe. And that's a thing that misogynistic gay men refuse to understand.
I keep saying it. Understanding queerness would liberate a lot of cis straight people. The idea of you making up the rules for how you express yourself in and out of relationships, letting go of external expectations… all of us could benefit from that work.
It's interesting to see Neal struggle with what Matteo is presenting here. Neal keeps wanting to apply what he knows (the typical norms) even after Matteo has basically said "just throw them away." Shows how ingrained these standards are. Having this struggle shown in its raw form is powerful stuff, I just wish more people Neal's age were willing to admit they are wrong and change their perspective.
The answer to his question: "What`s happening?" is there is two people having a relationship. The governing principle is two people merging their life and dividing tasks depending on their strengths and personalities. The fact that he has to think about that in male and female is both sad and infuriating.
@@anthill1510 Maybe I would be a little mad if he was truly stuck in his ways, refusing to see the point, but I think Neal realizes that he is missing something and is trying to figure out what it is. He's not intentionally stuck here. I think he wants to get where Matteo is taking him. It's like the difference between using the wrong pronouns on someone intentionally and messing up on accident. He means well and he's trying to change his views.
@@cattyg9495 Yes, I also got the impression that he is simply unfamiliar with it and is trying to learn. I am more frustrated with the situation than with him personally. But it`s also somewhat on him because it`s 2024 and he really talks like he has never talked to a gay person and how do you even manage that? I mean at this point you would have to have actively avoided knowing someone gay, no? He has these concepts of hetero realtionships stuck in his head that are outdated for hetero relationships even, but he tries to push them on gay people. Even if you don`t know any queer people personally: I have seen so many movies and series in the last years that had gay characters in them that made the concept of "this is just a relationship between two people and it looks different depending on who the people are" pretty clear to me. I didn`t seek out queer media, I was just interested in the stories and there happened to be gay characters in it. How do you not just come across that? My impression is that you would actually have to avoid it and I think that`s the problem I have with him and people like him.
@@cattyg9495 Yes, I also got the impression that he is simply unfamiliar with it and is trying to learn. I am more frustrated with the situation than with him personally. But it`s also somewhat on him because it`s 2024 and he really talks like he has never talked to a gay person and how do you even manage that? I mean at this point you would have to have actively avoided knowing someone gay, no? He has these concepts of hetero realtionships stuck in his head that are outdated for hetero relationships even, but he tries to push them on gay people. Even if you don`t know any gay people personally: I have seen so many movies and series in the last years that had gay characters in them that made the concept of "this is just a relationship between two people and it looks different depending on who the people are" pretty clear to me. I didn`t seek out this media, I was just interested in the stories and there happened to be gay characters in it. How do you not just come across that? My impression is that you would actually have to avoid it (maybe even subconsciously) and I think that`s the problem I have with him and people like him.
I know one lesbian. That’s it. To say people are actively avoiding gay people is not a fair assessment. Maybe cause Neal is in business sure but most people are just going about tone lives. Are we supposed to meet a gay person and just start asking them this stuff? Neal don’t know. Don’t make him a bad guy and stop laying judgement on people for being ignorant but well meaning.
@@jessicastockstill6338 no, you clearly do, just be sure to direct it at the same exact forces wearing us all out….and that is typically the patriarchy. Don’t be mad at the drag queens “serving fish”, they’re not actually attacking femininity. Have that energy for when straight bros are yelling at you and calling you the “emotional basket case” 🙄 🤷♂️.
@@jessicastockstill6338I think it's actually a joke when they say that on drag race, I don't think anyone is claiming it's liberating. It's just having a laugh and being intentionally outrageous, kinda the whole point of Drag.
How??? Neal is asking questions...just because they feel ignorant doesn't mean they are ill intended...in fact these are the questions that need to be asked, because that's the stuff the vast majority doesn't get about us. To most we are clishes and stereotypes...and "inclusive media" is the main perpetrator of perpetuating this bullshit. I'd rather have a straight person ask an ignorant question, than media portraying us as walking one dimensional caricatures.
i think the questions were in good faith, and much like Matteo I don't mind answering anything a straight person asks so long as they're coming from a good place of wanting to understand. Now bad faith BS, that's another thing entirely
I think the struggle Neil (and many people) has with comprehending gender roles is viewing things in a black and white perspective. People are different and complex. Gender and sexuality are a spectrum really.
I think he made several distinctions to not being viewing it as black and white. Seems to be like genuine ignorance (which isn’t bad because he’s respectfully asking questions)
How about getting rid of gender roles, that would solve the problem. Especially when we are talking about two gay men who don`t even fit within that concept at all? How about we stop pushing these made up expectations on people in general and just divide the tasks on the basis of who does it best, not which genitelia they have?
How about getting rid of gender roles, that would solve the problem. Especially when we are talking about two gay men who don`t even fit within that concept at all? How about we stop pushing these made up expectations on people in general and just divide the tasks on the basis of who does it best, not which anatomy they have?
I appreciate Neal for asking questions that are ignorant, but honest, because he is legitimately asking questions I'm sure many straight guys have for us queer folks. Neal is really open to listening, and Matteo is willing to be brutally honest while showing grace.
When Matteo said he felt insecure in relationships and he didnt get to learn early on how most hetero ppl do is something I wish ppl understood about millennial and older gay men. I struggle with knowing how to date. How to trust. Like I dont know how to do anything outside of a hookup. And those Im tired of.
That was touching to me too as a cishet Black plus-sized woman who grew up in predominately white spaces and in a home raised by a divorced mom with her own lack of dating experience and an absent alcoholic father. My therapists are RICH! LOL But his vulnerability echoes mine in that all the other aspects of my life are so successful and I've achieved wonderful things as a result but my love life is still so immature.
I'm 100% with you here. I'm an elder millennial who really struggled with coming out early in life. As a consequence I missed out on a lot that people in their late teens or early twenties tend to take for granted. I often feel like I struggle to navigate gay culture and dating, and really deep genuine relationships can seem elusive. I'm very happy Matteo touched on this. I feel seen, and that I'm not as isolated as I might feel from time to time. Thanks Matteo!
Great convo. One thing gay people can be good at is being patient with straight folks who don’t get it. We had to wait for everyone to get over their crap, so we see the potential of people to change. We can be assh*les too of course 🌈 And it’s great that Neal asked all the questions he did. A lot of people would’ve just avoided. Neal did seem to struggle a bit to understand the whole self-hatred thing. I think we forget how different our experiences could be from straight people. And how much therapy (from therapists or from friends) we’ve had. I still feel like I’m two steps behind in a lot of things. Of course there are a lot of straight folks who have had to deal with sh*t too. Having parents who now how to love and show it can help so much in life.
@jessicastockstill6338 I think the “serving fish” slang terminology is actually a way of making fun of these perceptions in a campy over-the-top way - just as drag itself does. You know, like, drag is a way of exaggerating something to the point where you see all the cracks in the facade - exposing the very root of the concept.
I wish the questioning would have gone faster, because what starts to happen is the ideas behind the gender roles unravel pretty quickly on their own with a little inspection.
Further? Do you mean the questioning should have gone further? I agree on that, I had the impression that the host himself wasn`t sure what he actually means by "who has the masculine role"?
I haven't finished yet but the interviewer is really fixated on roles and putting people into them. The roles are right out of the 50's. Like every straight man I ever dated before I gave up.
Yeah. It sucks but at the same time for men, they've long been socialized to believe they don't have inherent worth, that worth comes from what they can provide. They actively cling to the very same ideals that hold them back
Matteo seems to be under the impression that the whole toxic masc vs. fem dynamic isn’t around as much anymore in the gay world these days, but as someone who has been on Grindr more recently than him, I’m here to tell you that it is just as bad as it ever was. The gay male world is still living in boxes, hate to tell you (at least the Grindr/Scruff/hookup communities).
I think inherently all hookup culture is about boxes, straight or otherwise. Hookup culture is about distilling roles and engaging purely in the sexual act. Self acceptance and role of a partner is and always will be useless in a hookup environment. Why would it matter what someone is long term if odds are you are only gonna fuck once/twice? Do you want to bottom or top NOW, because I want to fuck NOW.
I was happily surprised by how nuanced and careful his answer was re masc/femme non-binary gender presentation and roles and misogyny GIVEN that the gay community on average feels the LEAST reflective about this amongst all queer communities, albeit still miles better than cishet men on average (which is borne out by statistics around relative willingness to date trans people for example). I had always been worried listening to his comedy that he might say something that gives me the ick but I now feel safer.
This was rather inspiring. Who can’t take a page from Matteo and move towards self-acceptance, i.e., not giving af about the cookie-cutter roles? How can you be truly intimate with someone if you’re still wearing a mask?
Why do all these comedy podcasters only ask Matteo about being gay? The fella's one of the funniest people on the planet, there's so many other things to banter about with him! He must think all straight people are just obsessed with the one thing. Fair play to Matteo for doing so well and being patient. I wasn’t patient watching it! Dunno how he managed it being there!
Okay I know I’m only at minute one but like…does this man have a wife? Did he sit his wife down and be like, “WHAT IS YOUR ROLE???” and she was like “Well I’ll make you a baked potatah at 3pm while you watch your westerns, and in return you get mad at me when I spend too much money at target!” And he was like “phew good ol american gender roles”
This is a great example of how confining gender roles are in hetero relationships like straights can’t even imagine a relationship without gender roles being followed. Neal can’t see that the outside pressure on the queer community is the same pressure heteros face-> conform to gender roles
If I was Matteo I would’ve definitely started to get annoyed at the continued insistence on projecting his norms on us - as if it was literally impossible to fathom being gay without making a straight equivalent
I’m a cis women in a straight relationship. I am the primary breadwinner and pay most of the bills. I take care of most of the household chores (although my man helps, he has ADHD and needs lots of redirection to stay on task). He takes care of all the car repairs and maintenance. I make the travel plans and have to order the food when we order out (again due to his ADHD). I’d say the typical gender roles are mixed in my relationship.
I would say it sounds like you are doing most of the work. How often does a car have to be repaired? I know ADHD is difficult, but it shouldn`t keep people from contributing.
I agree with Matteo that the framing of everything into masculine and feminine terms is antiquated and unproductive. People should just be, and not overanalyse themselves and others on binaries nor spectra.
I relate to this even as a cis straight woman from Kansas. And it was always exhausting and a constant rebellion to be a certain way. It IS misogyny. I never thought of it that way but it’s so obvious from your frank conversation. Thank you, Matteo!. 💖 (I’ve slowly stopped trying to please people by age 16. 😅 I’m 44 now. It’s still a struggle to fully not give a shit.)
Everything Neal said in the beginning made me just roll my eyes. Ppl have got to stop thinking like this in general, even regarding heterosexual relationships.
No, Matteo starts talking about that first, but Neall says that`s not what he means. I think Neall was talking about gender roles and how somebody put it "Who you are in a relationship".
As a female in a hetero relationship with a man, I don’t understand when Neal says “I generally act like a masculine stereotype”. Specific examples would be helpful. The only “masculine/feminine” stereotype I imagine is Neal going on a hunt and bringing back home a deer for his wife to cook while she has a baby latched to her boob? Joking but not joking. 🤷🏻♀️
Well if the person asking the question is being sincere & not an asshole, I feel like it’s not so offensive as just kind of ignorant/reductive. I’m not a gay man, but I think that was more or less what Mateo was expressing in his response.
@@JasonWindsor88I understand what you are trying to say and I have never been personally offended per se (more slightly annoyed). However, if you personally have never been in that position why do you feel like you have authority to decide if its offensive or not? Or rather why defend the question at all. Not trying to be combative btw! Im just curious because I see this quite often. I get the argument “if a person is being sincere and respectful then its fine” but to what end? Being asked whos a man and whos a woman when you clearly see two people of the same sex is strange even if you mean well. 😂 or the question whos a top, whos a bottom? The amount of invasive but “sincere” questions ive received from straight people is wild. Lol
@@JasonWindsor88problem is most times its asking with some kind of mocking or contempt. If it’s asked in earnest it’s not offensive but it’s so antiquated. Notice how he struggled to ask the question because there was no examination why “who does what”, it’s just how he’s been set to think like so many others. I see this as 2 main parts: Any task, whether it’s physical (fixing a door, cooking food), emotional (being supportive, a care taker), etc does not have to be tied to a gender. The butch burly man can be doing the things of Susie homemaker and the wife can be feminine but a high powered attorney. Does a single person get asked what “role” they are playing since they’re doing it all? For masculine & feminine dynamic, I’ll over-simplify: you don’t need one “masculine” partner and one “feminine” partner for things to work. You need traits you like and are compatible with your partner and vice versa. Such as above traits are tied to gender (roles) and they just don’t need to be.
really Wonderful conversation. in HS, I was the only out trans man and a girl I was acquaintances with had a lot of genuine (but very personal) questions abt my transition. even tho it was a little uncomfy for me, I answered her questions and explained things to her and why she can't ask random trans ppl she meets those questions. she walked away with a better understanding of me and the possibility of her asking strangers inappropriate questions was taken off the table. plus, a badly articulated question doesn't automatically equal malice, lack of understanding goes a long way. loved this segment!
The way I see it is that strong relationships are complementary, One partner has certain ways that they shine and missing pieces and the other has other ways. Partners that are so matchy matchy arent healthy a lot unless they are rich enough to pay people to fill in all the other parts of their life. I dont think of it as man/woman role I just think of it as (outgoing/homebody) or (technical/emotional) or (solution/support).
I am a woman of the transgender experience, and I believe that contemplating the ideas of masculinity and femininity, and what they mean to me is fascinating. It’s important to understand whether or not those ideas are rooted in misogyny.
Gay dating doesn't come with a lot of prescriptive expectations but with more acceptance and time. Even pure hookup guys always hiding some partial relationships. Matteo is always so sincere it can cut like a knife
Matteo is the goat. Freeing yourself from the worldly expectations of gender roles rocks. Trying to live up to traditional "principles" of relationships and genders sucks. There's a lot of good in them but i'd say everyone (i.e. the straights) would benefit from taking a hard critique of what they're trying to do and become.
Who is the woman? There is no woman. That`s the point. I know what he means, but it`s so exhausting, that he isn`t able to think about these things in any other way.
What does it even mean, "who is the woman"? Women also have versatile roles in relationships so asking this question is actually not enlightening at all. Why not ask more specific and less outdated questions like "who gets penetrated" (which is actually just a weird question to ask someone), or "who is in charge" (also super weird as most people would subscribe to equality). I guess the host should first figure out what roles he assigns to females before asking this question.
@@Padam91 I agree with you, I actually DON`T know what he means. I am pretty sure he is talking about gender roles, but what kind of things would he attribute to whom? Would have been interesting to ask him to explain what he is actually talking about because then the whole thing would have fallen apart pretty quickly, I am sure. I can`t shake the feeling that behind all that the actual question he is asking is: "Who has the power? How do you know who has the power, when you don`t have a man and a woman in the relationship?" I don`t have anything to back this up with, except the vibe this whole discussion was giving me.
I think what he is trying to ask is what is the script for gay relationships and then uses Man/Woman as an example, but Mr Lane is thinking he is asking for the age old "who is a woman in a gay relationship" question. I think his intentions to dig deep in a culture he is not part of are pure but stumbles on the wording and getting his point across.
I mean not for nothing but as a straight guy gay men have given me more compliments and attention than I’ve ever received from women. We all need positive reinforcement, and gay men don’t seem afraid to give it to men or women. Women, on the other hand, receive positive reinforcement from everyone but give it to men seldomly.
I enjoyed this conversation. It felt like the elephant in the room is the question itself. I wasn't sure by the end if Neal got that or not. People don't fit into either/or buckets. Even in a hetero relationship. Ultimately, THIS IS THE POINT. Trying to normalize humans oversimplifies and doesn't serve anyone. We are a mix of so many things and how we behave reflects that.
There is no man, woman or any gender roles.. We’re friends and we participate based on our gifts and inclinations…. Liking each others company, having patience and being forgiving is key in my opinion…
What's the point of coming out of the closet if you're still going to let society dictate what you do and don't like? "Asking which person in a gay relationship is 'the man' is like asking 'which of these chopsticks is the fork?'" - Ellen DeGeneres
Matteo has spent most of his comedy career emphasizing in his acts and appearances on podcasts the difference in roles of Tops and Bottoms / Masc and Fem gay relationships and now he's like... "there are no real roles"? lol please... I'm gay myself but it's nice Matteo is now starting to come around on fixing the stupid stereotype problem in the gay community that he himself helped reinforce for years
This felt like "why are you gay? 101" 😅 I love the openness and curiosity, but there are way more special qualities about Matteo beyond his sexuality and gender express. I wish an interviewer would ask him more about how he became a comedian and how that shifted the life he saw for himself in spite of being put down for being gay, along with all of the love and friendship that he shares with really special talents who are also rising stars.
The crocs comment was wrong. Wearing crocs is the ultimate form of caring! The misconception is the audience you care about. I wear Crocs because i care about my feet first!
To answer the gentleman’s question: most relationships, if not all, naturally become “versatile” over time-you share responsibilities and do everything together. Personally, I prefer masculine guys because they make life simpler. Guys who act like women or try to take on a “girlfriend” role are a turn-off for me. If that’s what I wanted, I’d be dating women. It’s just not what I’m into, and they don’t appeal to me romantically.
I remember the moment when I consciously decided to not be a goodwill ambassador for homosexuality. It was the best decision I ever made in my life. Explaining something to a relative or a co-worker is not my job and a waste of time.
How will u know if u don't ask?...is what my mama always told me. 💁🏾♀️ If the question is not innately malicious and the person asking simply wants to know because they're ignorant to the culture, I see nothing wrong with this. How will we ever understand another's perspective if we're afraid to start the dialogue? U have to ask questions...and some of the questions being asked might sound a bit ignorant, but essentially, that is because the person IS ignorant in the most basic sense of the word--to not know, uninformed, uneducated. NOW...Are they willing to LISTEN to the answer after the question has been asked is what we should really be concerned with. My point is give grace to those who genuinely want to learn. They may not always ask the questions the "right way", whatever the hell that means. 🤷🏾♀️
So many things can be answered on Google. It makes people feel like you care more about your curiosity than their feelings to ask intimate, inappropriate questions.
I think a lot of cishet people want to ask these questions but they're afraid to out of fear of offending or looking stupid... or being roasted in TH-cam comments.
Was Neil born in 1925? Is he really this clueless? I only watched bc of Matteo and he's incredibly patient with this idiot. It confirms why I don't watch this podcast. Sheesh.
He's asking questions, so he's curious and trying to understand more about a perspective that is very different than his own. That doesn't make him an idiot.
Yeah it`s frustrating to hear, but probably also helpful. There is still a lot of guys out there who think like him and he is asking the questions they have in good faith.
Have you been on grindr or talked to other gays? You will be surprised how deep set the male/woman roles are, so I feel it is justified for a straight guy who has no clue to ask about it because from an outsider view, I see those dynamics too and would wonder how they work. It doesnt help that in pop media and amongst gay comics talking about top and bottom all the time is just perpatuating that gay guys have some innate role they are born with...
If some young straight clueless dude was asking these questions, he'd get a pass. A middle aged American comedian ? No. I'm an old gay dude and these are the kinds of questions people asked 40 years ago. Pass denied.
Your description of a hetero relationship is like acting out a well known play. You know the expectation and it’s easy to find comfort, hide within that, or even be chained by it. Gay relationships are built on lots of communication because you have to figure out your roles and what you want. Straight and gay relationships both have many relationships built on sex and loneliness. Or even stereotypes when you get into sub categories. Like masc4masc or fem4fem or fem4masc. There are those who seek out the same kind of scripted relationships based off gender norm that hetero relationships have as you described.
Patience? nothing matteo said was wrong. Everyone has there own view and wants from a relationship and from themselves. So if Neal is saying that the gender norms are no longer the end all be all then there is no reason to need Patience for someone that wants them? Also this idea that everything can just be blamed on misogyny is nonsense. There are plenty gay and bi men that want a abundantly feminine man and a bunch that don't want a feminine man. And it has nothing to do with misogyny or what others people thinks. This hive mind idea that what's good for the goose has to applied to the entire gander is whats the problem.
I think part of his point, is that many straight men look down on gay men because they're usually slightly more feminine. They look down on the feminity aspect, not inherently the gay aspect. Hence, misogyny. Being so rigid in the ideals of masculinity that they look down on feminine men even though they are still men
Yeah but honestly Botox is pointless once people think they "need" it because lines are already deep set. If you get occasional Botox in your 30s and 40s it will keep those lines from forming. If you've never done that and you hit 55 and freak out Botox is too late and you're going to have Drs talk about face lifts lol
It seems like a cultural norm that people do just because everyone does it, more than for the effect. I'm seeing more generalized anxiety looking to ground itself somewhere tangible, like the dreaded "aging," than a reaction to anything real. Then again, who am I to judge what people do with their bodies? People get to look the way they want to look.
All the homosexuals saying the interviewer isn’t getting it - get over yourselves. Do you not see how the interviewer uncovers a site of discomfort in Matteo’s experience? All the slightly frustrated defensive answers from Matteo before that are simply ego defenses because he is still ashamed that he shames himself by perceiving things in a binary way. Don’t you see that? This old man sees that and gently gets him to admit it. That’s why it’s a fucking clip.
It's good for Neal to ask his questions honestly, but I also hope he hears Matteo. Somehow this reminds me of Seinfeld's comment, "Free yourself. We’re just raindrops on a windshield.”
No one is the woman. This is one of the most offensive things yo can say to a gay man. I get that not liking effeminate men stems from misogyny but the idea of hating women isn’t so black and white. There have been many privileges women get from that system of Patriarchy yore talking about. I don’t think we should be glossing over those privileges because they’re upheld by the matriarchy as much as the patriarchy. Another point that we don’t talk about as gay men is that the probability of being attracted to masculinity is far higher than attraction to femininity even though you’re effeminate. In this new day in age gay men are pressured to lie and be inclusive to dating feminine men. Let’s be honest.
A lot of straight people don’t realize that they are not always playing the “man” or “woman” role even within a straight relationship. If a husband cooks dinner, does that make him the wife? No lol. It’s the same in a gay relationship. Straight culture is also obsessed with gender roles. Being gay is already going against your gender role, so it’s easier to let gender roles go in general. It’s also completely different depending on the couple! A particular person can bring out a more feminine or masculine side in you. Which is quite the same for straight relationships actually, even if it’s not spoken as explicitly all the time.
I'll be honest Im straight and I was struggling to understand what Neal is asking really... nothing about my relationship feels like picking up a gendered role. Figuring out who does what chores feels like semantics and doesn't really feel like a defining aspect of a relationship. "whos the man and whos the woman?" for what? what do you mean? in bed? don't worry about what happens there you're not invited. Like who does the dishes? I dunno whoever wants them clean the most at the given moment? who cares? Im not exactly a spring chicken but even to me viewing a relationship through that lens feels antiquated.
@@notednuanceAgreed. Straight female here and also I’m confused by Neal’s question. It’s kinda bizarre. With this logic then single men living alone never cook/clean the house/do laundry?
A lot of (straight cis) people have just never ever questioned the norms forced on them. What's that song in Wicked - Dancing Through Life?
You got that right!
It's all an acting job no matter the orientation. The only thing that matters is can this person bring out the best in you. These roles don't really hold anyone back it's really just can you/will you do it. Nothing is holding anyone back so everyone should be capable of doing almost everything. The only thing a man can't do is get pregnant but outside of that we all can do the same thing. What many people, mainly in straight relationships, focus on is what is gonna make the man look good which kinda shows that this relationship isn't so much teamwork but badges and trophies for one person.
I'm so glad that Matteo pointed out how tied homophobia is to misogyny! This is something that's become EXTREMELY apparent to me the older (and more open) I become and is also apparent once you look at how society (and especially male-dominated social structures) treat trans people as well.
@@ScaredCrow Yet somehow when they "serve fish" that's not misogyny at all? That's liberating? Doesn't seem so for women.
wasn't it apparent enough in the way societies treat women?
All you have to do is look at the transphobia going around. All these cis straight transphobes ever look at are trans women, never trans men. All the bathroom talk is directed at trans women, not trans men (as though cis women are going to feel comfortable with a bearded trans man wearing a sweatshirt and jeans in the same bathroom with them but this *never* comes up in any of the arguments).
Gay men and couples have literally physically assaulted me in front of my cousins in public just because I was feminine.
The logic of the patriarchy is: men must idolize men, but not love. Love is a female thing, females are weak and must be subjugated; men subjugating other men is the same as turning them weak.
As long as women are seen as inferior and incapable, gay men will never be safe. And that's a thing that misogynistic gay men refuse to understand.
I keep saying it. Understanding queerness would liberate a lot of cis straight people. The idea of you making up the rules for how you express yourself in and out of relationships, letting go of external expectations… all of us could benefit from that work.
Yup
YES
💯 - came here to say the same.
It's interesting to see Neal struggle with what Matteo is presenting here. Neal keeps wanting to apply what he knows (the typical norms) even after Matteo has basically said "just throw them away." Shows how ingrained these standards are. Having this struggle shown in its raw form is powerful stuff, I just wish more people Neal's age were willing to admit they are wrong and change their perspective.
The answer to his question: "What`s happening?" is there is two people having a relationship. The governing principle is two people merging their life and dividing tasks depending on their strengths and personalities. The fact that he has to think about that in male and female is both sad and infuriating.
@@anthill1510 Maybe I would be a little mad if he was truly stuck in his ways, refusing to see the point, but I think Neal realizes that he is missing something and is trying to figure out what it is. He's not intentionally stuck here. I think he wants to get where Matteo is taking him. It's like the difference between using the wrong pronouns on someone intentionally and messing up on accident. He means well and he's trying to change his views.
@@cattyg9495 Yes, I also got the impression that he is simply unfamiliar with it and is trying to learn. I am more frustrated with the situation than with him personally. But it`s also somewhat on him because it`s 2024 and he really talks like he has never talked to a gay person and how do you even manage that? I mean at this point you would have to have actively avoided knowing someone gay, no?
He has these concepts of hetero realtionships stuck in his head that are outdated for hetero relationships even, but he tries to push them on gay people.
Even if you don`t know any queer people personally: I have seen so many movies and series in the last years that had gay characters in them that made the concept of "this is just a relationship between two people and it looks different depending on who the people are" pretty clear to me.
I didn`t seek out queer media, I was just interested in the stories and there happened to be gay characters in it.
How do you not just come across that? My impression is that you would actually have to avoid it and I think that`s the problem I have with him and people like him.
@@cattyg9495 Yes, I also got the impression that he is simply unfamiliar with it and is trying to learn. I am more frustrated with the situation than with him personally. But it`s also somewhat on him because it`s 2024 and he really talks like he has never talked to a gay person and how do you even manage that? I mean at this point you would have to have actively avoided knowing someone gay, no?
He has these concepts of hetero realtionships stuck in his head that are outdated for hetero relationships even, but he tries to push them on gay people.
Even if you don`t know any gay people personally: I have seen so many movies and series in the last years that had gay characters in them that made the concept of "this is just a relationship between two people and it looks different depending on who the people are" pretty clear to me.
I didn`t seek out this media, I was just interested in the stories and there happened to be gay characters in it.
How do you not just come across that? My impression is that you would actually have to avoid it (maybe even subconsciously) and I think that`s the problem I have with him and people like him.
I know one lesbian. That’s it. To say people are actively avoiding gay people is not a fair assessment. Maybe cause Neal is in business sure but most people are just going about tone lives. Are we supposed to meet a gay person and just start asking them this stuff? Neal don’t know. Don’t make him a bad guy and stop laying judgement on people for being ignorant but well meaning.
Yup, it comes from attachment to misogyny. Throw it all out & just be you & let others do the same
Interesting how "serving fish" on Drag Race is liberating and not misogyny. I guess women don't get to ever be exhausted.
@@jessicastockstill6338 no, you clearly do, just be sure to direct it at the same exact forces wearing us all out….and that is typically the patriarchy. Don’t be mad at the drag queens “serving fish”, they’re not actually attacking femininity. Have that energy for when straight bros are yelling at you and calling you the “emotional basket case” 🙄 🤷♂️.
@@jessicastockstill6338I think it's actually a joke when they say that on drag race, I don't think anyone is claiming it's liberating.
It's just having a laugh and being intentionally outrageous, kinda the whole point of Drag.
A lot of patience being displayed from Matteo here, good grief...
How??? Neal is asking questions...just because they feel ignorant doesn't mean they are ill intended...in fact these are the questions that need to be asked, because that's the stuff the vast majority doesn't get about us. To most we are clishes and stereotypes...and "inclusive media" is the main perpetrator of perpetuating this bullshit.
I'd rather have a straight person ask an ignorant question, than media portraying us as walking one dimensional caricatures.
RIGHT?? I noticed that too
i think the questions were in good faith, and much like Matteo I don't mind answering anything a straight person asks so long as they're coming from a good place of wanting to understand. Now bad faith BS, that's another thing entirely
All of you need to relax, holy you guys are so butt hurt over nothing 😂😂😂
Just 2 gentlemen having a conversation and it's fine 😂
@@jordanaconito8249 Nobody is butthurt. They said Matteo needed a lot of patience to walk Neall through everything and that`s true.
Matteo is such a great communicator! He is slowly walking Neil, and us, into the facts.
Props to him when you see him collecting himself to try to explain this in a non reactive way. I wouldn’t have had his patience.
I think the struggle Neil (and many people) has with comprehending gender roles is viewing things in a black and white perspective. People are different and complex. Gender and sexuality are a spectrum really.
I think he made several distinctions to not being viewing it as black and white. Seems to be like genuine ignorance (which isn’t bad because he’s respectfully asking questions)
How about getting rid of gender roles, that would solve the problem. Especially when we are talking about two gay men who don`t even fit within that concept at all? How about we stop pushing these made up expectations on people in general and just divide the tasks on the basis of who does it best, not which genitelia they have?
How about getting rid of gender roles, that would solve the problem. Especially when we are talking about two gay men who don`t even fit within that concept at all? How about we stop pushing these made up expectations on people in general and just divide the tasks on the basis of who does it best, not which anatomy they have?
“If sex isn’t real there is no same sex attraction.” JKR
I appreciate Neal for asking questions that are ignorant, but honest, because he is legitimately asking questions I'm sure many straight guys have for us queer folks. Neal is really open to listening, and Matteo is willing to be brutally honest while showing grace.
I think you are right.
When Matteo said he felt insecure in relationships and he didnt get to learn early on how most hetero ppl do is something I wish ppl understood about millennial and older gay men. I struggle with knowing how to date. How to trust. Like I dont know how to do anything outside of a hookup. And those Im tired of.
That was touching to me too as a cishet Black plus-sized woman who grew up in predominately white spaces and in a home raised by a divorced mom with her own lack of dating experience and an absent alcoholic father. My therapists are RICH! LOL But his vulnerability echoes mine in that all the other aspects of my life are so successful and I've achieved wonderful things as a result but my love life is still so immature.
I'm 100% with you here. I'm an elder millennial who really struggled with coming out early in life. As a consequence I missed out on a lot that people in their late teens or early twenties tend to take for granted. I often feel like I struggle to navigate gay culture and dating, and really deep genuine relationships can seem elusive. I'm very happy Matteo touched on this. I feel seen, and that I'm not as isolated as I might feel from time to time. Thanks Matteo!
Great convo. One thing gay people can be good at is being patient with straight folks who don’t get it. We had to wait for everyone to get over their crap, so we see the potential of people to change. We can be assh*les too of course 🌈 And it’s great that Neal asked all the questions he did. A lot of people would’ve just avoided.
Neal did seem to struggle a bit to understand the whole self-hatred thing. I think we forget how different our experiences could be from straight people. And how much therapy (from therapists or from friends) we’ve had. I still feel like I’m two steps behind in a lot of things. Of course there are a lot of straight folks who have had to deal with sh*t too. Having parents who now how to love and show it can help so much in life.
I’ve been there. It’s rather liberating.
Yup, it comes from a crusty attachment to labels rooted in misogyny. Throw it all out & just be you & let others do the same
How come "serving fish" on Drag Race is liberating and not misogyny?
@jessicastockstill6338
I think the “serving fish” slang terminology is actually a way of making fun of these perceptions in a campy over-the-top way - just as drag itself does. You know, like, drag is a way of exaggerating something to the point where you see all the cracks in the facade - exposing the very root of the concept.
“I look like ET when they put him in drag” is crazy 😂😂
What a great reference
I wish the questioning would have gone faster, because what starts to happen is the ideas behind the gender roles unravel pretty quickly on their own with a little inspection.
Further? Do you mean the questioning should have gone further? I agree on that, I had the impression that the host himself wasn`t sure what he actually means by "who has the masculine role"?
I haven't finished yet but the interviewer is really fixated on roles and putting people into them. The roles are right out of the 50's. Like every straight man I ever dated before I gave up.
Yeah. It sucks but at the same time for men, they've long been socialized to believe they don't have inherent worth, that worth comes from what they can provide.
They actively cling to the very same ideals that hold them back
Gay man here: Love the honest questions from curiosity.
Right there with you!
Matteo seems to be under the impression that the whole toxic masc vs. fem dynamic isn’t around as much anymore in the gay world these days, but as someone who has been on Grindr more recently than him, I’m here to tell you that it is just as bad as it ever was. The gay male world is still living in boxes, hate to tell you (at least the Grindr/Scruff/hookup communities).
I think inherently all hookup culture is about boxes, straight or otherwise. Hookup culture is about distilling roles and engaging purely in the sexual act. Self acceptance and role of a partner is and always will be useless in a hookup environment. Why would it matter what someone is long term if odds are you are only gonna fuck once/twice? Do you want to bottom or top NOW, because I want to fuck NOW.
I was happily surprised by how nuanced and careful his answer was re masc/femme non-binary gender presentation and roles and misogyny GIVEN that the gay community on average feels the LEAST reflective about this amongst all queer communities, albeit still miles better than cishet men on average (which is borne out by statistics around relative willingness to date trans people for example). I had always been worried listening to his comedy that he might say something that gives me the ick but I now feel safer.
When I was young, it was "Straight Acting and Appearing," even then it was foolish.
Its still going on today. Time changes, people don't.
I am right there with you.
You guys! I waited until I was 56 before I got my ears pierced! Almost 40 years later than necessary!
This was rather inspiring. Who can’t take a page from Matteo and move towards self-acceptance, i.e., not giving af about the cookie-cutter roles? How can you be truly intimate with someone if you’re still wearing a mask?
Why do all these comedy podcasters only ask Matteo about being gay? The fella's one of the funniest people on the planet, there's so many other things to banter about with him! He must think all straight people are just obsessed with the one thing. Fair play to Matteo for doing so well and being patient.
I wasn’t patient watching it! Dunno how he managed it being there!
This is crazy. How is it 2024 and this guy is asking 1994 questions???? Matteo is a saint
How is that interviewer asking "what iS gAy" in 2024, jeeez
Okay I know I’m only at minute one but like…does this man have a wife?
Did he sit his wife down and be like, “WHAT IS YOUR ROLE???” and she was like “Well I’ll make you a baked potatah at 3pm while you watch your westerns, and in return you get mad at me when I spend too much money at target!”
And he was like “phew good ol american gender roles”
This is a great example of how confining gender roles are in hetero relationships like straights can’t even imagine a relationship without gender roles being followed. Neal can’t see that the outside pressure on the queer community is the same pressure heteros face-> conform to gender roles
If I was Matteo I would’ve definitely started to get annoyed at the continued insistence on projecting his norms on us - as if it was literally impossible to fathom being gay without making a straight equivalent
For some people it is?
Matteo handled this question very well, shame we still have to go over this. It’s dull
very sorry you were forced to watch this interview!
@ your apology is accepted. Sorry you felt the need to comment.
I’m a cis women in a straight relationship. I am the primary breadwinner and pay most of the bills. I take care of most of the household chores (although my man helps, he has ADHD and needs lots of redirection to stay on task). He takes care of all the car repairs and maintenance. I make the travel plans and have to order the food when we order out (again due to his ADHD). I’d say the typical gender roles are mixed in my relationship.
I would say it sounds like you are doing most of the work. How often does a car have to be repaired? I know ADHD is difficult, but it shouldn`t keep people from contributing.
I agree with Matteo that the framing of everything into masculine and feminine terms is antiquated and unproductive. People should just be, and not overanalyse themselves and others on binaries nor spectra.
Feminism is for everybody by bell hooks is a better book for speaking to men about feminism than the guys guide to feminism.
But how do we get men to actually read a book?
@@itcouldbelupus2842Perhaps if we wrap it in steak and french fries and tell them the libs hate the book
I relate to this even as a cis straight woman from Kansas. And it was always exhausting and a constant rebellion to be a certain way. It IS misogyny. I never thought of it that way but it’s so obvious from your frank conversation. Thank you, Matteo!. 💖 (I’ve slowly stopped trying to please people by age 16. 😅 I’m 44 now. It’s still a struggle to fully not give a shit.)
This guy dying to know if mateo is a top or bottom … painful
“Not caring” made me blast a laugh like nothing else 😂❤
Everything Neal said in the beginning made me just roll my eyes. Ppl have got to stop thinking like this in general, even regarding heterosexual relationships.
"are you a top, or a bottom?"
"YES!"
This feels like Neal wants Matteo to say if he’s a top or a bottom but doesn’t want to ask directly.
The way he kept repeating the question made me think the same thing...
No, Matteo starts talking about that first, but Neall says that`s not what he means. I think Neall was talking about gender roles and how somebody put it "Who you are in a relationship".
As a female in a hetero relationship with a man, I don’t understand when Neal says “I generally act like a masculine stereotype”. Specific examples would be helpful. The only “masculine/feminine” stereotype I imagine is Neal going on a hunt and bringing back home a deer for his wife to cook while she has a baby latched to her boob? Joking but not joking. 🤷🏻♀️
Matteo’s openness at the end about maturity in relationships…🙏🏻
Who is the man and who is the woman is a very offensive question. We are two men. With our own roles.
And one of them is usually a more feminine role.
Well if the person asking the question is being sincere & not an asshole, I feel like it’s not so offensive as just kind of ignorant/reductive. I’m not a gay man, but I think that was more or less what Mateo was expressing in his response.
If I had a dollar for every time ive been asked that question id have enough to get a burrito and chips from chipotle. Maybe a drink.
@@JasonWindsor88I understand what you are trying to say and I have never been personally offended per se (more slightly annoyed). However, if you personally have never been in that position why do you feel like you have authority to decide if its offensive or not? Or rather why defend the question at all. Not trying to be combative btw! Im just curious because I see this quite often. I get the argument “if a person is being sincere and respectful then its fine” but to what end? Being asked whos a man and whos a woman when you clearly see two people of the same sex is strange even if you mean well. 😂 or the question whos a top, whos a bottom? The amount of invasive but “sincere” questions ive received from straight people is wild. Lol
@@JasonWindsor88problem is most times its asking with some kind of mocking or contempt. If it’s asked in earnest it’s not offensive but it’s so antiquated. Notice how he struggled to ask the question because there was no examination why “who does what”, it’s just how he’s been set to think like so many others.
I see this as 2 main parts:
Any task, whether it’s physical (fixing a door, cooking food), emotional (being supportive, a care taker), etc does not have to be tied to a gender. The butch burly man can be doing the things of Susie homemaker and the wife can be feminine but a high powered attorney. Does a single person get asked what “role” they are playing since they’re doing it all?
For masculine & feminine dynamic, I’ll over-simplify: you don’t need one “masculine” partner and one “feminine” partner for things to work. You need traits you like and are compatible with your partner and vice versa. Such as above traits are tied to gender (roles) and they just don’t need to be.
really Wonderful conversation. in HS, I was the only out trans man and a girl I was acquaintances with had a lot of genuine (but very personal) questions abt my transition. even tho it was a little uncomfy for me, I answered her questions and explained things to her and why she can't ask random trans ppl she meets those questions. she walked away with a better understanding of me and the possibility of her asking strangers inappropriate questions was taken off the table. plus, a badly articulated question doesn't automatically equal malice, lack of understanding goes a long way. loved this segment!
You never fail to have interesting conversations on this show.
They answer questions I didn't even know I had!
Wait! Neil Brennan isn't gay?!?!? Next you'll be telling me Tony Hinchcliffe isn't gay either.
Bruhhh 😂😂😂
I am equally as d.smacked. Who knew... hehehehe😂
Yeesh, homophobia right here
Neal's question could be answered 10,000 different ways and I think Matteo gave one of the better ones.
How is Neal this ignorant in 2024? It’s Neal who’s “stemming from misogyny”. This is depressing
Wow that stuff about wanting to be liked hit hard
Hilarious how there was just a fight at a Maria Christmas concert
The way I see it is that strong relationships are complementary, One partner has certain ways that they shine and missing pieces and the other has other ways. Partners that are so matchy matchy arent healthy a lot unless they are rich enough to pay people to fill in all the other parts of their life. I dont think of it as man/woman role I just think of it as (outgoing/homebody) or (technical/emotional) or (solution/support).
I am a woman of the transgender experience, and I believe that contemplating the ideas of masculinity and femininity, and what they mean to me is fascinating. It’s important to understand whether or not those ideas are rooted in misogyny.
Straight men have a LOT to learn from gay men.
Omg I love this
Gay dating doesn't come with a lot of prescriptive expectations but with more acceptance and time. Even pure hookup guys always hiding some partial relationships. Matteo is always so sincere it can cut like a knife
Gay dude here-a lovely conversation.
He opened up to me like I was Barbara Walters!
Matteo is the goat.
Freeing yourself from the worldly expectations of gender roles rocks. Trying to live up to traditional "principles" of relationships and genders sucks. There's a lot of good in them but i'd say everyone (i.e. the straights) would benefit from taking a hard critique of what they're trying to do and become.
Who is the woman?
There is no woman. That`s the point.
I know what he means, but it`s so exhausting, that he isn`t able to think about these things in any other way.
What does it even mean, "who is the woman"? Women also have versatile roles in relationships so asking this question is actually not enlightening at all. Why not ask more specific and less outdated questions like "who gets penetrated" (which is actually just a weird question to ask someone), or "who is in charge" (also super weird as most people would subscribe to equality). I guess the host should first figure out what roles he assigns to females before asking this question.
@@Padam91 I agree with you, I actually DON`T know what he means. I am pretty sure he is talking about gender roles, but what kind of things would he attribute to whom? Would have been interesting to ask him to explain what he is actually talking about because then the whole thing would have fallen apart pretty quickly, I am sure.
I can`t shake the feeling that behind all that the actual question he is asking is: "Who has the power? How do you know who has the power, when you don`t have a man and a woman in the relationship?" I don`t have anything to back this up with, except the vibe this whole discussion was giving me.
I think what he is trying to ask is what is the script for gay relationships and then uses Man/Woman as an example, but Mr Lane is thinking he is asking for the age old "who is a woman in a gay relationship" question. I think his intentions to dig deep in a culture he is not part of are pure but stumbles on the wording and getting his point across.
Matteo, I’ve said it before: You are loved. Thank you.
Mateo is my spirit animal
I mean not for nothing but as a straight guy gay men have given me more compliments and attention than I’ve ever received from women. We all need positive reinforcement, and gay men don’t seem afraid to give it to men or women. Women, on the other hand, receive positive reinforcement from everyone but give it to men seldomly.
I enjoyed this conversation. It felt like the elephant in the room is the question itself. I wasn't sure by the end if Neal got that or not. People don't fit into either/or buckets. Even in a hetero relationship. Ultimately, THIS IS THE POINT. Trying to normalize humans oversimplifies and doesn't serve anyone. We are a mix of so many things and how we behave reflects that.
I would love to hang out with Mateo. He’s always fun to
There is no man, woman or any gender roles.. We’re friends and we participate based on our gifts and inclinations…. Liking each others company, having patience and being forgiving is key in my opinion…
I recommend the book ‘The Guy’s Guide to Feminism’ by Michael Kaufman & Michael Kimmel for Neal and anyone else
What's the point of coming out of the closet if you're still going to let society dictate what you do and don't like?
"Asking which person in a gay relationship is 'the man' is like asking 'which of these chopsticks is the fork?'" - Ellen DeGeneres
I thought Neal was gay too why am I like this bro 💀
How many times can this man put “like” into one sentence?
Matteo has spent most of his comedy career emphasizing in his acts and appearances on podcasts the difference in roles of Tops and Bottoms / Masc and Fem gay relationships and now he's like... "there are no real roles"? lol please... I'm gay myself but it's nice Matteo is now starting to come around on fixing the stupid stereotype problem in the gay community that he himself helped reinforce for years
Lol he’s not answering the question but also the question basically being who’s the man and who’s the woman and how do you decide that?
It’s not imperial or metric - it’s about throwing out the measurements (& judgement) altogether
You cannot throw the norms away. They are the norms. It is what is normal.
You can break the norms, but you cannot throw them away.
There are no norms, just what we're used to and what we're taught. Learning helps the norms crumble
Norms change all the time.
How come there isn't a Love button
Who is the Neil dude?
Same Matheo…same.
Well, this goes exactly like you would think. 2 minutes in and I feel dumber. Unbelievable
I love his wisdom
This felt like "why are you gay? 101" 😅 I love the openness and curiosity, but there are way more special qualities about Matteo beyond his sexuality and gender express.
I wish an interviewer would ask him more about how he became a comedian and how that shifted the life he saw for himself in spite of being put down for being gay, along with all of the love and friendship that he shares with really special talents who are also rising stars.
I enjoy listening to Matteo and Nate separately - thanks algorithm!
The crocs comment was wrong. Wearing crocs is the ultimate form of caring! The misconception is the audience you care about. I wear Crocs because i care about my feet first!
Damn Neal
To answer the gentleman’s question: most relationships, if not all, naturally become “versatile” over time-you share responsibilities and do everything together. Personally, I prefer masculine guys because they make life simpler. Guys who act like women or try to take on a “girlfriend” role are a turn-off for me. If that’s what I wanted, I’d be dating women. It’s just not what I’m into, and they don’t appeal to me romantically.
I wish I could live the simple hetero lifestyle. You people are so simple
I remember the moment when I consciously decided to not be a goodwill ambassador for homosexuality. It was the best decision I ever made in my life. Explaining something to a relative or a co-worker is not my job and a waste of time.
knowledge normalizes
Matteo is kind...
How will u know if u don't ask?...is what my mama always told me. 💁🏾♀️
If the question is not innately malicious and the person asking simply wants to know because they're ignorant to the culture, I see nothing wrong with this. How will we ever understand another's perspective if we're afraid to start the dialogue? U have to ask questions...and some of the questions being asked might sound a bit ignorant, but essentially, that is because the person IS ignorant in the most basic sense of the word--to not know, uninformed, uneducated. NOW...Are they willing to LISTEN to the answer after the question has been asked is what we should really be concerned with.
My point is give grace to those who genuinely want to learn. They may not always ask the questions the "right way", whatever the hell that means. 🤷🏾♀️
So many things can be answered on Google. It makes people feel like you care more about your curiosity than their feelings to ask intimate, inappropriate questions.
Personally, I have found a lot of misconceptions in this program. There is a lot of stereotyping of people in the 80s / 90s.
Amen!
I think a lot of cishet people want to ask these questions but they're afraid to out of fear of offending or looking stupid... or being roasted in TH-cam comments.
Trying to figure out who does all the extra work and who’s lazy…
Love Matteo!
Was Neil born in 1925? Is he really this clueless? I only watched bc of Matteo and he's incredibly patient with this idiot. It confirms why I don't watch this podcast. Sheesh.
He's asking questions, so he's curious and trying to understand more about a perspective that is very different than his own. That doesn't make him an idiot.
Yeah it`s frustrating to hear, but probably also helpful. There is still a lot of guys out there who think like him and he is asking the questions they have in good faith.
Have you been on grindr or talked to other gays? You will be surprised how deep set the male/woman roles are, so I feel it is justified for a straight guy who has no clue to ask about it because from an outsider view, I see those dynamics too and would wonder how they work. It doesnt help that in pop media and amongst gay comics talking about top and bottom all the time is just perpatuating that gay guys have some innate role they are born with...
If some young straight clueless dude was asking these questions, he'd get a pass. A middle aged American comedian ? No. I'm an old gay dude and these are the kinds of questions people asked 40 years ago. Pass denied.
He is ignorant but it is a genuinely good podcast, you should check out other episodes if you like the guests.
Your description of a hetero relationship is like acting out a well known play. You know the expectation and it’s easy to find comfort, hide within that, or even be chained by it. Gay relationships are built on lots of communication because you have to figure out your roles and what you want. Straight and gay relationships both have many relationships built on sex and loneliness. Or even stereotypes when you get into sub categories. Like masc4masc or fem4fem or fem4masc. There are those who seek out the same kind of scripted relationships based off gender norm that hetero relationships have as you described.
Patience? nothing matteo said was wrong. Everyone has there own view and wants from a relationship and from themselves. So if Neal is saying that the gender norms are no longer the end all be all then there is no reason to need Patience for someone that wants them? Also this idea that everything can just be blamed on misogyny is nonsense. There are plenty gay and bi men that want a abundantly feminine man and a bunch that don't want a feminine man. And it has nothing to do with misogyny or what others people thinks. This hive mind idea that what's good for the goose has to applied to the entire gander is whats the problem.
I think part of his point, is that many straight men look down on gay men because they're usually slightly more feminine. They look down on the feminity aspect, not inherently the gay aspect.
Hence, misogyny. Being so rigid in the ideals of masculinity that they look down on feminine men even though they are still men
Sis ATE
Mateo is a good looking guy. The Botox, at his age is really unnecessary.
I know ppl in their 20s who get "preventative" Botox
Yeah but honestly Botox is pointless once people think they "need" it because lines are already deep set. If you get occasional Botox in your 30s and 40s it will keep those lines from forming. If you've never done that and you hit 55 and freak out Botox is too late and you're going to have Drs talk about face lifts lol
@@supernova622 they will regret that. It prematurely ages them.
It seems like a cultural norm that people do just because everyone does it, more than for the effect. I'm seeing more generalized anxiety looking to ground itself somewhere tangible, like the dreaded "aging," than a reaction to anything real. Then again, who am I to judge what people do with their bodies? People get to look the way they want to look.
Girl…
All the homosexuals saying the interviewer isn’t getting it - get over yourselves. Do you not see how the interviewer uncovers a site of discomfort in Matteo’s experience? All the slightly frustrated defensive answers from Matteo before that are simply ego defenses because he is still ashamed that he shames himself by perceiving things in a binary way. Don’t you see that? This old man sees that and gently gets him to admit it. That’s why it’s a fucking clip.
hOmOsExUaLs 😂
@ i am one too lol! Just to be clear
Neil isn’t gay?!
Codependent gays everywhere
Where?
It's good for Neal to ask his questions honestly, but I also hope he hears Matteo. Somehow this reminds me of Seinfeld's comment, "Free yourself. We’re just raindrops on a windshield.”
I find the line of questioning pretty offensive. If you’re that curious maybe try it out and find out.
No one is the woman. This is one of the most offensive things yo can say to a gay man. I get that not liking effeminate men stems from misogyny but the idea of hating women isn’t so black and white. There have been many privileges women get from that system of Patriarchy yore talking about. I don’t think we should be glossing over those privileges because they’re upheld by the matriarchy as much as the patriarchy. Another point that we don’t talk about as gay men is that the probability of being attracted to masculinity is far higher than attraction to femininity even though you’re effeminate. In this new day in age gay men are pressured to lie and be inclusive to dating feminine men. Let’s be honest.
God bless him for his patience. I’m so sick of having to explain shit to everyone. Educate yourself. Good for you, M.