I think the main question we must ask about this is if Maria being trapped in the Hunters Nightmare is what made the plain doll an imperfect copy as opposed to a recreation.
A little late, but do you think since a Hunter can’t show mercy during a hunt, or Lady Maria had to toss it aside as time went on, only her darker emotions were trapped in the Hunter’s Nightmare? Meanwhile the emotions she had discarded, like kindness and love, were found and given to the Doll when she was made? Perhaps a bit too out there, but something that crossed my mind.
@@manwithabasicprofilepicLook, to be fair, she does show a fair amount of kindness in the Nightmare. She fights you almost in mourning, with the sole intent to "liberate you from your wild curiosity", as she put it; So that you don't fall down the same path she did. She's acting out of guilt, but I'd argue there's a good dose of altruism mixed in.
I don't think so, I think that Maria is long gone in the real world kinda what happened to Micolash (his consciousness is alive in the Nightmare of Mensis but the body is all rotten in the real world). The Maria you see in the Astral Clocktower is a projection of her conscious self. You have to remember that Kos cursed all those hunters who, in their pursuit for knowledge, dared pry a door open into the unknown (the Dreamlands, the realm of the Old Ones) by denying them the peace of death (that being the case of Lady Maria, once she died or presumably killed herself in the real world her consciousness was pulled to the Hunter's Nightmare as punishment). I guess that what the doll felt was an echo of lady Maria release from the Hunter's Nightmare when you "killed" her being that they both reside in the Dreamlands and the history they share with Gehrman (the doll is a construct granted to Gehrman by the Moon Presence of a longing for lady Maria the later had) we can asume there was some kind of connection between them.
@@eyebees Also , some people said the old hunter bone was belongs to Maria , it had been found front of the 'hunter's nightmare' grave , it explained this grave in abandoned old workshop (real life workshop) was actually belongs to Maria .But in the Clocktower , had a coffin there, it belongs to her too . Then where is Maria's body ? The old workshop grave or the coffin in Clocktower ? And I think Old Hunter Bone was not belongs to Maria because the introduction of Old Hunter Bone , the word 'he' , Maria is female , some people said the description saying it's a male is a translation error. In the original Japanese text no gender is specified. But I want to ask them : you guys don't even know what's the gender is , how did they know it's error ?
@@Joseph.YoRHa-5H she wasn't a knight she was from cainhurst nobility and only resident of cainhurst that is alive is queen others were killed by executioners Maria killed herself and her soul was free after we killed her so probably some sort of afterlife
This gave me a chill when i first heard it. But, she says "liberation" so, I believe she understands Maria has been freed from the Nightmare. Even if she has no context or clue about what happened, why, or who Maria even was... she still understands. It gave me the motivation I needed to keep going, to finish what I started, and end the hunt. I... was hesitant to enter the hamlet, and I don't think there's any shame in that. The Doll reminded me why I was doing this, to lay to rest all who had come before me. It may have started with the pale blood, but my ultimate goal was defined the moment I spoke to little daughter Gascoigne.
Doll: good hunter,. This may sound strange, but...have i somehow change? Moments ago from someplace perhaps deep within. I sensed a liberation from heavy shackles that i would know how passing strange.. *giggles Me: yeah...umm i ki-killed your human self. Sorry about that Doll: 😱
Martin Anderson It's the original Bloodborne OST, you can find it here on YT as "Moonlit Melody" there are actually two songs being played in the same place, the first one (the below 50 insight theme) it's named "Hunter's Dream" and the above 50 insight one which is the before mentioned (Moonlit Melody).
+youwatch2muchtv It means that Lady Maria was a student of Gehrman (as it's implied in her equipment description) and somehow he fell for her or just felt that he was her guardian and protector (the point here is that Gehrman cared for her) and when she died he was distraught, creating the doll in the real world (you can see the real one in the Abandoned Old Workshop) as a surrogate (that's why the doll resembles Maria so much (virtually they are the same, even performed by the same voice actor), years later they closed the Hunter's Workshop; after the aforementioned event he was purposeless, that';s why he somehow beckoned Flora (the Moon Presence (implied by the One Third Umbilical Cord found in the Abandoned Old Workshop) so TMP repurposed him into guiding those very few Paleblood Hunters that visited the Hunter's Dream but after a while he became lonely, and if I remember correctly one Umbilical Cord says: "... they are sympathetic in spirit (the Old Ones)"; that's why TMP gave Gehrman the animated Plain Doll (still she was created of a longing for Lady Maria (that being the link between The Plain Doll and Lady Maria's essence in the Nightmare Realm) but her personality was nothing like Maria's that's the reason of Gehrman's indifference. lol Sorry for the horrible english btw (:
Hello there Vallen, right after you defeat Lady Maria go back to The Hunter's Dream and talk to The Plain Doll, it will be her first dialogue so be careful not to skip it.
Good Hunter: w-well... yeah... a-about t-t-that....
I think the main question we must ask about this is if Maria being trapped in the Hunters Nightmare is what made the plain doll an imperfect copy as opposed to a recreation.
Good point
A little late, but do you think since a Hunter can’t show mercy during a hunt, or Lady Maria had to toss it aside as time went on, only her darker emotions were trapped in the Hunter’s Nightmare? Meanwhile the emotions she had discarded, like kindness and love, were found and given to the Doll when she was made? Perhaps a bit too out there, but something that crossed my mind.
@@manwithabasicprofilepic I don't consider it too out there considering the overall surreal nature of the world of Bloodborne.
@@manwithabasicprofilepicLook, to be fair, she does show a fair amount of kindness in the Nightmare. She fights you almost in mourning, with the sole intent to "liberate you from your wild curiosity", as she put it; So that you don't fall down the same path she did. She's acting out of guilt, but I'd argue there's a good dose of altruism mixed in.
Just for the record this dialogue does not initiate if you killed Mergo's Wet Nurse beforehand. I learned that the hard way.
God dammit time to replay
@@tonyredgrave3903 why you acting like it’s a bad thing?
@@omaralhashmi3905 Im controlling my bloodborne addiction 🤣
@@tonyredgrave3903 don't block. Just go with it :)
I did everything right, but I skipped the dialogue so now I’m here 😆
thanks i ran up and skipped all that after i killed maria so i was curious what she said ha
Shawn Klein same here, thought it was going to be the usual 'hey Hunter, how goes it?'
Same
Same #_#
Yup same
Shawn Klein same here only 3 years later
i swear if we EVER get a remaster for this game i can happily wake up from the dream.
🎉🎉🎉
Bro is Gehrman.
Thanks my dude I literally skipped it so fast to level up
well that's very interesting
This is why she's the best maiden, above Maiden in Black, Firelink Keeper, Emerald Herald and Fire Keeper.
Because she has dialogue when you kill a boss? I’d rather keep “seek seek lest”
Indeed
lol Naw, she isn't even in Maiden in Black's league.
@@nirokal Maiden in Black is just hot, but she's a rat worst maiden
@@nirokal not even close
the doll said she sensed a liberation , was that mean Maria had been freed of Kos's curse then returned to the real world ?
I don't think so, I think that Maria is long gone in the real world kinda what happened to Micolash (his consciousness is alive in the Nightmare of Mensis but the body is all rotten in the real world). The Maria you see in the Astral Clocktower is a projection of her conscious self. You have to remember that Kos cursed all those hunters who, in their pursuit for knowledge, dared pry a door open into the unknown (the Dreamlands, the realm of the Old Ones) by denying them the peace of death (that being the case of Lady Maria, once she died or presumably killed herself in the real world her consciousness was pulled to the Hunter's Nightmare as punishment). I guess that what the doll felt was an echo of lady Maria release from the Hunter's Nightmare when you "killed" her being that they both reside in the Dreamlands and the history they share with Gehrman (the doll is a construct granted to Gehrman by the Moon Presence of a longing for lady Maria the later had) we can asume there was some kind of connection between them.
@@eyebees But Maria was cainhurst castle's knight , she is immortal , she can't die , and where did Maria go after we killed her ？
@@eyebees Also , some people said the old hunter bone was belongs to Maria , it had been found front of the 'hunter's nightmare' grave , it explained this grave in abandoned old workshop (real life workshop) was actually belongs to Maria .But in the Clocktower , had a coffin there, it belongs to her too . Then where is Maria's body ? The old workshop grave or the coffin in Clocktower ? And I think Old Hunter Bone was not belongs to Maria because the introduction of Old Hunter Bone , the word 'he' , Maria is female , some people said the description saying it's a male is a translation error. In the original Japanese text no gender is specified. But I want to ask them : you guys don't even know what's the gender is , how did they know it's error ?
@@Joseph.YoRHa-5H
I'd say it's Gernham's bone
He does have a missing leg after all
@@Joseph.YoRHa-5H she wasn't a knight she was from cainhurst nobility and only resident of cainhurst that is alive is queen others were killed by executioners Maria killed herself and her soul was free after we killed her so probably some sort of afterlife
This gave me a chill when i first heard it.
But, she says "liberation" so, I believe she understands Maria has been freed from the Nightmare.
Even if she has no context or clue about what happened, why, or who Maria even was... she still understands.
It gave me the motivation I needed to keep going, to finish what I started, and end the hunt.
I... was hesitant to enter the hamlet, and I don't think there's any shame in that.
The Doll reminded me why I was doing this, to lay to rest all who had come before me.
It may have started with the pale blood, but my ultimate goal was defined the moment I spoke to little daughter Gascoigne.
Doll: good hunter,. This may sound strange, but...have i somehow change? Moments ago from someplace perhaps deep within. I sensed a liberation from heavy shackles that i would know how passing strange.. *giggles
Me: yeah...umm i ki-killed your human self. Sorry about that
Doll: 😱
How *passing* strange.
Oh shit, thanks for that grammar correction
It was Maria's spirit. Maria's physical body died a long time ago.
But why sorry? We kill Marya to give her a liberation
@@romanemperor3160 if I recall correctly it was actually her physical body but she pretending to be a corp.
The doll doesn't look too happy in the thumbnail.
That's part of her charm.
For a second I thought you would kill her and my heart stopped beating
oh she a doll of Lady Maria I never would have thought
Doll the second lady maria
Man that OST... name of it?
Martin Anderson It's the original Bloodborne OST, you can find it here on YT as "Moonlit Melody" there are actually two songs being played in the same place, the first one (the below 50 insight theme) it's named "Hunter's Dream" and the above 50 insight one which is the before mentioned (Moonlit Melody).
Ivis Alvarez 40*
Thanks for all the distractions during the dialogue.
I can't tell if her face is badly animated, or if she literally does not have a mouth since she's a doll.
Hahaha nobody on the game move their lips when talking, that's how it is. Cheers.
+Ivis Alvarez Except for Ludwig.
i don't think Ludwig has lips, which makes that more off putting
dragonkingofthestars none of the human NPC's in soulsborne have lip sync
@@nathang7244
Well, there are a couple exceptions (Andre the blacksmith, for one), but most don't.
I’ve been here before. But how? Why does this seem so familiar?
What sword is that?
i think its the one you get by killing ludwig in the dlc, his moonlight greatsword or something
Our true mentor
Our guiding moonlight
holy moonlight sword
what does this mean
+youwatch2muchtv It means that Lady Maria was a student of Gehrman (as it's implied in her equipment description) and somehow he fell for her or just felt that he was her guardian and protector (the point here is that Gehrman cared for her) and when she died he was distraught, creating the doll in the real world (you can see the real one in the Abandoned Old Workshop) as a surrogate (that's why the doll resembles Maria so much (virtually they are the same, even performed by the same voice actor), years later they closed the Hunter's Workshop; after the aforementioned event he was purposeless, that';s why he somehow beckoned Flora (the Moon Presence (implied by the One Third Umbilical Cord found in the Abandoned Old Workshop) so TMP repurposed him into guiding those very few Paleblood Hunters that visited the Hunter's Dream but after a while he became lonely, and if I remember correctly one Umbilical Cord says: "... they are sympathetic in spirit (the Old Ones)"; that's why TMP gave Gehrman the animated Plain Doll (still she was created of a longing for Lady Maria (that being the link between The Plain Doll and Lady Maria's essence in the Nightmare Realm) but her personality was nothing like Maria's that's the reason of Gehrman's indifference. lol Sorry for the horrible english btw (:
@@eyebees thank you!
Wait... moonlight great sword is in bb
It's a damn good weapon too
@@rxyalgenesis but scales only at A at max. But it sends enemies flying sooo..
Always has been
@@drtohtoridoc3954 no, not always, only in the DLC
@@jmckendry84 www.google.com/search?q=always+has+been+meme&safe=off&sxsrf=ALeKk0314x9o3ilW3vyWdQ4n3bT0GHbIFQ:1608756480420&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj2kK70_OTtAhUhkcMKHYNkApMQ_AUoAXoECBMQAw&biw=1920&bih=969
I skipped this dialogue by accident 🤡
Btw, Maria's fight was peak. It wasnt as hard as Ludwig was for me, but it was so fucking epic.
Her facial animation died.
It never lived
how did you obtaine it?
Hello there Vallen, right after you defeat Lady Maria go back to The Hunter's Dream and talk to The Plain Doll, it will be her first dialogue so be careful not to skip it.
+Ivis G thanks for the answer
whaaat?
:(
Yeah no, totally not evil at all