Stihl MS170 Chainsaw Won't Run Properly - Quickly Diagnose It With Apprentice Dave!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 พ.ค. 2021
- Stihl MS170 Chainsaw Won't Run Properly - Quickly Diagnose It With Apprentice Dave!
Dave showed up with an almost new STIHL MS170 chainsaw that doesn't want to run properly, has low power and sometimes will not even start at all!
Follow along as I teach Dave as we diagnose it and talk about possible causes of why it won't run like it should and I also share tips on how to prevent this from happening to your chainsaw!
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Planned obsolescence… Stihl was good now they’re turning out garbage . I’ve got a MS170 a year old did everything by the book.. now it runs like shit..loads up won’t idle. Stored in a heated garage, proper winter storage care, stihl oil (for warrantee) non ethanol fuel…. I’m beginning to think I through my money in the toilet. I’ve got an old homelite 350 s that runs like a top… never lets me down. Thanks guys I appreciate you posting this!
Hey guys, if the ‘user’ doesn’t have a metric/SAE wrench set, they probably shouldn’t be taking things apart. IMHO.
Definitely shouldn't have a chainsaw either.
Nice to show how easy it is to pull off the muffler, as well as to check the spark arrester. It was difficult to see the scoring/damage on the piston, so I look forward to seeing that in the future video. Thanks again Don (and Dave).
I agree 100%. I have had so many saws come in to my workshop, which have had piston scoring and exhaust screen blockage resulting in lack of power. I've also had instances where it is the carburetor settings that needed a little tweek. Great video and real good information. Thanks. Craig
Thank you gentlemen so true not knowing the basics from reading the shop manual is truly costly in many ways. Love Freedom
While I own and use my "pro" Stihl saws I do own an MS170. It's a great little saw for its design intent. I use it for limbing and cutting up small limbs and the occasional small tree, (less than 6 inch‐160cm dia). Right tool for the right job, clean and maintain your equipment and use the right fuel mix! Good video!
Same here. Amazed at what it will cut.. 14" .050 ga. 50 dl same as 020T top handle
Great video as usual. Bad gas is another reason a saw won't run right or lays down on power. Before I switched to the premixed, I used the same gas can for the blower and weedwacked, which are less sensitive to stale gas then the saws
Thanks for the information. I am a MS170 owner and it's been a little workhorse for limbing trees, but for the bigger stuff, I own an Echo CS590 Timberwolf. My only complaint with the Stihl has been hard starting. Dave thinks I may have a vapor lock. Trying his remedy this week.
Let us know!
Excellent video! Always follow the golden rule: pull off the muffler. Great tip.
The golden rule!
Looking forward to the next video on this regarding replacement versus repair. Excellent job! 👍
Hello Guys, I hope you’re staying busy fixing and showing everyone how to take care of your small engine equipment 😊. Don What’s the best solution to fixing the plastic briggs with the automatic choke that won’t stop surging even after extensive cleaning? Can you get by with just replacing the main jet portion of the carb or the whole carburetor?
Thanks - after scaring me! Mine was really bogging down, hard to start, and making a pockata sound that I’ve never heard before. Today I refilled it, sharpened the chain. Loosened the chain. Checked the brake - and no change. Watched your video and it was the screen. Whole muffler was wet & oily. Piston & cylinder are bright and shiny.
I’m halfway through my dedicated 1 gallon STIHL mix. I don’t know what changed but I’ll empty the saw, dump the fuel in my1953 tractor, and mix new non-ethanol fuel.
I’m not sure about the light duty part. I work the saw until I’m whipped.
Cleaned exhaust screen again and all was fine. A week later - same thing but I KNEW screen was good so changed, good looking, plug and no change. I’ve never touched carb screw since new and didn’t want to do that now. Finally pulled muffler again. Screen still looked good but louvers in outside of muffler almost 100% plugged. Cleaned and happy again.
Thank you for this info. I couldn't get mine to start after running the piss out of it cutting railroad ties. I took the muffler off and checked pistons and no scoring and spark arrestor was clean. It fired right up after. I suspect it may have been flooded.
I occasionally get a MS170 in the shop with the customer complaining on low power and not cutting. What has occurred is the customer has gone to a store and bought an Oregon S55 chain, the packaging states it will fit on a MS170**. The '**" is a comment on the back of the packaging regarding the gauge of the bar. The proper Oregon chain for a MS170 is a R55 chain. You may want to create a video regarding this not uncommon mistake.
With your help I was able to fix my saw!! Thank you. My issue was clogged baffle/ wire screen.
Glad it helped
Hello dony I have a question, when an engine does not have compression or is damaged as you say, the first thing is to check the muffler to see if the piston is not scratched, I would like to know why when the piston is scratched most of the time it is scratched on the muffler side it will be because it is where there is more heat ? or what will the reason?
I never thought about checking the spark arrester. Thanks for sharing Don & Dave
Cheers Jeremy!
Great video. My MS171 won't keep going. Good compression, good spark, good to start... so it doesn't intake fuel well. We checked the intake where it meets the carb and it seemed 'spacious,' so added some goops and 'leak stop' spray... still won't keep up an idle on low. Adjusting jets helped a little, but the problem persists. Good saw otherwise after 6+yrs
Try cleaning the carburettor, got a 170 given and it wasn't pulling fuel, took carb apart and found saw dust. Runs like new now
I want to ask you if you could do a video about judging piston wear / scoring.
So I look at my piston through the exhaust port and see fine lines, large lines, brownish burn lines on the piston; what is O.K and what not??
I have a 1980 chain saw that has heated our house every year since.
I take perfect care of it.
I Looked at the piston through the port and saw very fine lines .
Please provide guidance.
Thank yo!!!
I was out hunting with my brother the other day, we got behind a windfall tree. No way to turn around, so we had to cut the tree. I had my ms179 saw with me. But only 1/2 tank of gas.
I had NO choice, I pulled some ethanol super out of my quad. We ran the saw without oil. For a few minutes. She was still running fine when we shut her down.
You think she will be okay? Or dammage is already done? (New bore and piston)?
Dony once again another great tip.
With Stihl chainsaws, my personal philosophy is any of them in a model ms250 or larger is worth having repaired but something like an MS 180 or MS 170 or smaller or right around those sizes, most of the time are on sale and it's definitely more practical just to buy another new saw and save the old one for parts or throw it on marketplace for 75 or 100 bucks and maybe even a little more depending on your area that's what determines price most of the time when selling stuff like that but that's how I manage any small equipment of my own
Hey Don and Dave!
I have been binge-watching both your videos for the past few days, because I have back issues and can't really work on my own equipment.
Question: I have a Stihl MS270C that has issues (I'm pretty sure what's wrong, but only 99%).
Backstory: This spring I was felling 2 trees. One was down and I shut the saw off to have a conversation. I started the saw again, but just as I started it, someone spoke to me and I shut it off just as it started. After that there was no way in ... I could start it again. Put it aside for a rainy day's project.
I have now "diagnosed" it to be spark related. I checked everything I could think of, and the only thing wrong is it didn't have spark. I also removed the kill switch to eliminate wiring problems (even though this saw only has a very basic harness). I even held the spark plug and grounded my hand to see if there was anything there.
I have ordered a new (aftermarket, because it's my personal saw and I wanted to test it) ignition module, because I can't for the life of me think of what else it could be...?
Any thoughts?
mine stihl ms 170 is brand new I started it and tried to cut through tree branches between 3 and 4inch and chokes down
Good day So running a dull saw for long period will overheat them. Interesting. Thanks
Greeting Don, i dont know how to reach you elswhere that under this video.
I have a old Jonsered 630 with a 24in bar on it and she run well when she starts but become rapidely ustable. She idle fine but bog down after high rev or after cutting a big tree, when the engine slow down she die. I have to maintaint it rev a bit with few quick throttle push to stop the dying and she idle fine after that.
Impossible to adjust correctly the carb cause that always change the throttle response or the idling speed.
What do you think ? Bad carburetor ? Crank shaft seal leak ?
Thank you !
I have a MS-250 saw and it has not been used except for once to trim some brush and it would not start after that. The saw is like it was when I got it new and the manager of the saw shop was the only one to be able to crank it. When I tried the saw would not crank for me and I have the same problem with two Poulan saws also. I depend on my battery saw to get brush, limbs, and other small jobs done since it works perfectly for me.
Very informative. Thanks for posting.
A 5/16" wrench fits those 8mm muffler nuts too. If the screen is plugged burn it out with a propane torch. It's stainless steel and won't melt. Don't use acetylene.
I throw those screens right in the trash myself.
@@JohnR9965 This country is covered with dead Brome Grass in the Spring and Fall. It burns about like gasoline and I'm too old to fight another Prairie fire. My screens stay in.
@@quappelle3637 understood. I don’t have that issue at all. So they are kind of useless to me.
I really think those MS170 benefit from the Heavier gauge chain and bar upgrade. I ordered in the upgrade for a friend and it was a better working saw all around. The Stens bar and chain turned out to pretty decent quality. Those little saws are a good value if you take good care of them.
Dony had a video about upgrading from puny .043 ga to .050 . Cuts better and stays sharp longer. My dealer made swap when I bought it. 14' 50 dl. Same as my 020T top handle saw.
@@lovestihlquality1369 his video was where I got the part numbers for the upgrade. 😎
@@patthesoundguy I have saws from MS 170 to MS661. Still surprised how much that little saw can cut. Little dog with a big dog attitude.
@@lovestihlquality1369 I agree they are crazy for what they are.
Also my local Stihl dealerships around my town where I live have always recommended using their oil and 89 octane gas if you can't find non ethanol gas, they don't recommend 87 octane but they also do not recommend 93 or higher octane either
Canned fuel, Motomix, Trufuel, VP or other are nice for occasional use and storage. I'm lucky too to have non ethanol gas close.
Great video once again Don. Thanks for sharing. 🦅
Thanks 👍
Thanks Don and Dave.
You’re welcome Joseph!
Ah nice to see the apprentice that has his own channel now. I like checking out your past videos as well. I'm working a Rancher 460...what a beast..lol
I have a McCulloch pro mac 610 that sat in my uncles shed all I did was check spark lubricate the chain so it will flex again and lubricant the sprocket to spin freely and put gas in it oil and started and works way better than my poulan now I don't have to buy a new saw that mcculloch is built to last
Nice. Saw deserves a new chain.
Very good tip thank you
Thank you!!!
Right on, saving money is always good. So now that we know why it's acting the way it is, is it worth fixing ?? And more importantly, how can I prevent this from happening ??? I watch a lot of repair videos and have seen this kind of damage but I can't believe that this just happens with age because there are a lot of old equipment that still works great. Is it a change in material ? Like aluminum vs cast iron ? Or are there other reasons ? That's what I want to know,,,,, how to prevent engine damage like in this video.
These are my favorite videos Guys! Thanks so much!
You’re welcome! Thanks for being here.
This saw appears to have a bar longer than the 16” bar delivered with the MS170. More bar and more chain may have pushed this saw beyond it's limits.
Hard to tell, but almost certainly it is a 16". A stock MS 170 is literally unable to accept a longer bar and appropriate chain
I had a Craftsman saw come in the other day. Same deal. This one locked up and stopped running on the user. I got it to run but it smoked like crazy. Chain completely rolled over. Trying to cut a palm tree they said.
What about customers that messed with the adjustment on carbs?
170 and 180 saws don't have any adjustment screws besides the LA/LD idle adjustment. Other saws that do have adjustments, leaning out causes excessive scoring. Running way too rich in oil causes scoring caused by carbon buildup.
I always label a 1-gal. gas tank with "gas & oil mix" for my saw and another gas tank that is also labeled "gas only!"
Your videos with Dave are great Donyboy!! That is an easy to check the condition of your piston. I was taught that the duller the chain gets the smaller the chips and the sharper it is the larger the chips. Is this correct?
If you're seeing chips, ok but sawdust, no.
Hey Nash! That is correct.
1 other thing, running a dull chain overspeeds the motor & with a high $ saw, damned expensive to fix.
Thanks Don & Dave
Cheers Paul!
My chainsaw is the only 2 stroke I have and I always use engineered pre mixed fuel. No problems at all
Super helpful thanks
I had a nightmare with mine even after a service, it would start fine, run a top speed then cut out, i tilted it over and the tickover became steady, I gave it full beans for 30 seconds and hey presto it was like new again 🙂I can only assume i dislodged something a blockage in the carb but who knows, I'm clueless on these but its working.
Dave's gaining some knowledge 👍
Yes I am!
Don!
I have an echo chainsaw, I bought echo gold oil.
The back says mix 2.6 to “(89) octane for a 50:1 ratio. What is the ratio of its nonethonal 90-91 could this make a thermal difference if someone doesn’t pay attention to the 89 octane.
Just use the same 50:1 ratio.
Thanks Guys. Really enjoy your videos.
Thanks for being here JR!
New Sub here, I know the chop saws for concrete, don't know much about the chain series, I fix Husqvarna, Stihl and Husky chop saws and road saws.
I can tell Don knows his stuff, had to sub cuzz I can always learn from him
Can you make a video about how to make 45:1 gas if I buy the exact amount from the pump. That’s if I am useing one of the little bottles that would normally make 50:1.
i replace a engine on a ms 170 for a friend . buy a china engine to 25us delivered .it have been used in 3 years many hour .he use it in his carpenter firm
Hi guys. I just picked up an old Lombard chainsaw made in Montreal Qc. Not sure what model it is but I have a serial number on the plate and it is blueish in colour. The plate also says FUEL MIXTURE: Mix 1/2 pint of No. 30 MOTOR OIL PER GALLON OF GAS. I have never heard of using reg motor oil in a oil/fuel mixture before. Are you familiar with these saws? Thanks. Rick
That was common on the vintage saws, there was no such thing as 2 stroke oil then so you mixed 30 weight with the real gas. Real common to see mix rates as low as 15:1 on them. Also real common to cut wood all day and pull the plug out at lunch and burn off the soot and burn the muffler out to get them ready for the rest of the day.
Hey there! We just did a video on that. Stay tuned!
Great advice.
Thank you very much dany
Hi Don. Thank you for sharing. Always keen to watch your videos. Cheers 🇦🇺
Thanks 👍
I really enjoyed the probable causes list at the beginning
merci
You 2 Are making usefull videos. Thanks
My ms170 is 2013 or 14 model and the muffler doesn't have the bolts to lift it off on the chain side. There's 2 wee screws on top but I can't seem to get it off
I just got a brand new one today. And I can’t even get it started at all
I own a 009 and many stihl trimmers as pole saws .
Gonna take it back to the green tracker store tomorrow
Not gonna fool with might be a lemon
If you have time you could take the crank out and put in in a saw with a bad crank end at the needle bearing. I know I needed some commas, but I am not in the mood for correcting it right now!
hi i got a ms 170 i put a new oem carb on but it wont rev up it just bog so can u help
thank you.
make sure muffler screen is not plugged
well the screen not plugged also i had to put in a new top in it piston ring cylinder new carb i look everywere on i cant figure out i think it not getting enough gas but it well start up idle just fine just wont rev up.
I have an old Stihl 009L that needs a top end rebuild. Aftermarket pistons are available for around 30 bucks but cylinders are not available. Is it ever successful to rebuild with a new piston and rings, keeping the old cylinder? It does have some scoring. The saw has some sentimental value and I don’t mind putting in the time if there’s a chance for success. Thanks to you and Dave for great content presented in a user-friendly format.
Hey there! Yes it is worth it. I have done it a few times. Very time consuming but if it’s got value to you, then I say go for it!
Thanks so much for your response.
@@j31355a keep us posted!
Don't do it. Parts are obsolete & once the jug's pulled off, you'll find bearings in the crankcase. Crankpin bearing has no keeper & the jug holds 'em in. You'd have to split the case to fix.
Ahhh-The enthusiasm and energy of youth (Dave) vs. the voice of experience (Darrell). The gauntlet had been “thrown down” as they say. I knew about the uncased bearings from previous videos and how to ‘’glue” them together with grease. I like a challenge, and, more importantly, I’m retired=more free time, so I may give it a go and report back here. Thanks guys. Love this forum.
Love your channel.
Ok whats the deal with 2 stroke motor oil? Is there any problem with using other than Stihl 2 stroke oil in the proper amount required in your gas mix. I was also recomended to use the highest octane gasoline by my local small engine repair shop. Whats your view on high octaine fuel?
Great video! Donny you said you thought the owner went over board and used the saw for fire wood. Did you mean that type of saw shouldn't be used for fire wood or did you mean that over use of a dull saw on fire wood would be going overboard?
it can be used for firewoos, what I meant is they probably used it to cut 20 cords a year and with a dull chain for a big part of it
You didn't mention the fuel filter,i have had plenty saw dust and dirt clogged. Great vid as allways.
I've noticed prices on saws have gone up. $10 on the little MS 170 and more on biggger ones. Likewise, haven't seen any sale prices.
What abou 291?Is it soon?
Looking forward to next video.
Me too!
Nice guys!!!
Yep
When a chain gets dull, shut it off and crank up another saw or sharpen the chain. I keep a bunch of little saws around just for this situation. I have an equal number of big pro saws. I never start out on a job with less than four saws, as a minimum. For small stuff I will have two little saws and two big saws incase my assessment of the job was incorrect. Better to have to much saw than to little.
The Dynamic Duo !!!
Yes sir!
Hi Dony.
I need to purchase my first Chainsaw to cut firewood for our recently installed wood stove . I am considering the Stihl MS -170 or the Echo CS - 310- 352 or 400 which comes with a much better warranty .
I have not looked at Husqvarna yet. I would value a recommendation from you. Are you allowed to do so ?
Thanks
Paul
Battery chainsaws are amazing. I have 9 chainsaws, and now I’m using mostly my electric.
Power to weight is important in a firewood saw, 40cc to 60cc is plenty of power without getting to heavy. Stihl, Husqvarna and echo are all g
use Sthil Motomix only
Nice Video, Don and dave, 👌.
Thanks Winston!
HOLA
SALUDOS DESDE ECUADOR
X FA SI ME AYUDAS A CALIBRAR EL CARBURADOR DEL MOTOR BRIGGS DE 8 CABALOS
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what about an air leak on the intake manifold?
I use to mix my gas and oil not any more always buy premix non ethanol
Nice video!! And nice team too!
2 Awesome dudes
You bet!
Saw dealerships Should Always- but most never do- discuss the importance of correct fuel mixing & bar oil, with new saw buyers.
It's in the Owners Manual, but that often goes unread.
With 20% damaged new saws, it's a huge issue.
Well done dave the rave 👍🏴
Thanks!
My 170 wont pump oil to the chain. I've replaced the oiler and blown out the oil channel but no luck. The chain will not stay on the bar as well!
Donyboy73 and Dave. Question for You guys. I let my neighbor use my saw. (ms180c) came back scored. Didn’t bother him cause of COVID-19 he has situation at home(father in law pass). I order in Amazon Chinese kit not OEM. Still no compression. So my question is that Chinese lit is garbage or is something else wrong. I’m not using saw that much that’s why I want to put Chinese kit. Thank guys for your videos and be well.
There are so many factors here it would be hard to diagnose without having it in my hands.
Did you apply a bead of high temp RTV the engine and seals?
Good video👍
Thanks Sergio!
How much more in price are the pro Stihl saws vs. the weekend warriors saws Dony?
The Homeowner line MS 170 to MS 251 are $179 to $350ish. The Farm and Ranch 60cc saw is MS 311 $530 nice but still a plastic "clamshell". The 60cc Pro saw is MS 261cm. $ mid 600's. Really really nice saw. Metal case, pro design, M-Tronic computer carburetor. Superior power to weight . Built to run all day. It is more $ but well worth it. Still the MS 250 Homeowner and Farm Boss plastic case saws have all cut a lot of firewood when maintained.
@@lovestihlquality1369 Thankyou my friend!!
Make shure it has the Wright size bar on it
It is a 150 dollar saw it can barely cut a tree down but hey they work for most homeowners I am amazed how many people try to sell them on eBay and Facebook for 300 bucks. Buyer beware you have to know what you are buying. Simple you would think. Lol
Dony, what caused the piston to become scored? Is it possible to burn up one of these little guys with a dull chain? Or was the gas not mixed?
First of all, it _is_ possible to burn up a chainsaw with a dull chain - basically, you're putting too much stress on the engine (causing it to overheat) if you cut too long with a dull chain.
As for scoring a piston or the cylinder, the two most common reasons that cause scoring that I know of are: (1) the mixed gas is too lean (not enough oil) and (2) not letting the chainsaw warm up enough before using it. Regarding the second reason, I'm not sure if Dony has done a video on it or not, but "Steve's Small Engine Saloon" channel definitely has. Like Dony, Steve explains things quite well so pretty much anyone (including newbies) can understand it.
@@blackenedmagic888 ok I think I got it straight. Running a saw with a dull chain will ruin a engine. And not letting it warm up will ruin a engine. But, the quickest way I know is to not mix the gas. I know from experience. Not a good result.
@@alexcarr8503 I agree - no oil, no lubrication ... the easiest way to blow up an engine.
I should have also mentioned cleaning the chainsaw every so often (depending on the amount of usage it gets) to get rid of the fine sawdust/oil mixture underneath the recoil cover, etc. - it definitely helps a chainsaw run cooler.
Another parts saw! what percentage of saws come in your shop in this condition?
20%
wow! 1 out of 5
Twenty percent! That is a scary statistic. No wonder you have so many “parts saws”. I would’ve never guessed such a high percentage. Yikes!!!
I get tired of people asking me if I can fix a trashed chainsaw, especially those cheap throw away saws. My answer is always the same. No. Its not worth my time and they don't want to pay what I would charge to even bother trying to fix a cheap saw.
exactly what I go through here
The irony here is that if the owner had just taken reasonable care of that saw, it would still be running, not have to pay for parts and repairs or buy a new saw.
When does Dave go from apprentice to Journeyman? Nice tips guys.
That’s a great question! I have a long way to go!!!
@@DavesSmallEngines In days of old, seven years was the basic for apprentice, 14 years as a journeyman or forever. Master was only derived from after death of Master or other Master's approval. Long ways to go indeed :P. Of course it's the journey. Thanks for everything you two.
I would like to see that saw get repaired
👍 Hey Dony will you come on Mick's live on Saturday so we can all say Hi ?
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