The West doesn't know itself either which is the rest of Tse's formula. It abandoned Truth a millenium ago in the Great Schism. Which was when this war really started. It is a spiritual fight. Western media admits it interestingly. The West chose succumb to the Snake's proposition in Genesis 3. Going the way of hybris and Pride which it openly celebrates. Perverted the rainbow which was a symbol for the covenant between man and God. Removed its vertical component, with only nihilism left. It is impossible not to defeat such a spiritually debased culture as the West has become. Which was predicted btw by such as Saint Palamas. Repent or be destroyed.
This thought-provoking unofficial debate between non-political, yet first-hand knowledgeable speakers should be aired across Western nations. We are living through very dangerous days and here we are being given a gentle but firm warning ! Time is precious - is there still time for collective realisation and for action to be taken ?🤞
At 72yrs l have seen so much apathetic rhetoric from politicians that are platitudes for the moment not for the long haul. At 70 l went to Ukrain from Manchester twice with medical supplies twice before going home to Australia. My father was a tank commander of 3 tanks Welsh guards armoured division) & fought through to Germany getting blown up twice. We have done something & want to do more if l get the chance. Here in OZ very few discuss the war that threatens their peaceful lives. God help us all for our complacency as it's costing Ukrain & indeed Russian lives. Shame on us.
Yes, I agree... if we look at all global conflicts that have ever happened to our planet, it's all started from and by the western idiot leaders. This war is absurd and it shouldn't have happened... my fear is that the pacific war is coming soon.. with all this AUKUS, QUAD, and so on... and it's another incredibly stupid war if it ever happened.
Another amazing discussion to listen to. I particularly enjoyed the discuss around the statement by western leaders of “as long as it takes”. Dom has the perfect response to that statement, which is “to do what”. On this second anniversary of this war, I am unfortunately coming to the conclusion that “the west or democratic countries” have not learned the lessons of history and as such are doomed to repeat it.
@@jonathancollett8322Well, they are sure that they would rather burn the world in ww3 if the alternative would be loosing their position in the world as part of the block with absolute power with their "rules based order".
Absolutely wonderful. It is so inspiring to hear the thoughts and ideas of the panel . Alexandra inspired so much hope. How can one not take up arms and regain hope when such a woman who has seen so much pain and brutality eludes such a gentle and humane, yet determined courage. While there are people like our panelists and there are many, humanity and democratic values will prevail.
Yes! Great balanced discussion, right!! x4 warmongers! More weapons?? I shake my head at the ignorance, it's actually so sad. Poor Ukraine! She is FULLOFIT!!
Excellent clip! Oleksandra is right. Russification of Ukrain is not a new invention. My great grandmother was born in Lisichansk 1898. She only spoke Ukrainian. My grandmother who was born in 1924 understood Ukrainian but spoke only Russian. My father was born in 1944 spoke only Russia until they moved to Poland in 1957.
Well done, Ukraine: The Latest team! Two years of war... So sad. Thanks for sharing and bringing us along on your trip to Kyiv. Safe travels and safe home. Slava Ukraini!
These people are completely bonkers, if they think Russia is going to throw away its gains in Ukraine. Ukraine was never going to win this war. All the West has done is prolong the war and enabled the mass killings and destruction on both sides. The reality is, Ukraine lost the war the day the war opened. All that's happened since is just while we're waiting for Ukraine to accept the inevitable.
All lies F A K E news search Colonel Douglas McGregor who was in Desert Storm to get the facts of how Victoria Newland of USA staged the coup to install Zelensky and started the war in Ukraine
It is so good to hear Oleksandra point out that Russian advances is not just a matter of territory but of huge violations of human rights and changes in culture and demographics. I'd add that the failure to supply weapons only rewards and enables an ever aggressive Russia. Great discussion!
So Ukraine took Russia to the ICJ at the Hague on multiple,Multiple charges of war crimes going back to 2014 Invasion of Crimea onward.The highest court of this World found that all of Ukraine's charges/claims were unproven and Russia was found not guilty of all charges apart from one, which was 'not promoting the Ukrainian language in school's in Crimea' So people Wake up . We are the ones being lied to and its incredible that it is the West that's behind an Iron curtain . The case ended a couple of weeks ago.
I'd take what she says with a grain of salt. While there's undeniably some collateral damage and civilians do suffer during military action she has an agenda and uses hardly believable stories like Russians deliberately shelling maternity hospitals (if they were then they did it only to get Ukr military who often use civilians like human shield) and emotional second hand accounts. Unfortunately empty words from skillful agitators like Francis may be extremely dangerous - he creates a false sense of hope and optimism in a grim situation that requires facing cold hard facts and not Kool Aid.
@@TheAntsh Well said I agree.Ukraine took Russia to the ICJ at the Hague on multiple,Multiple charges of war crimes going back to 2014 Invasion of Crimea onward.The highest court of this World found that all of Ukraine's charges/claims were unproven and Russia was found not guilty of all charges apart from one, which was 'not promoting the Ukrainian language in school's in Crimea' So people Wake up . We are the ones being lied to and its incredible that it is the West that's behind an Iron curtain . The case ended a couple of weeks ago.
Absolutely agreed with Dom, Francis and with rest of the Telegraph team. I'd have never thought witnessing this uttermost morale decadence here in West. The Kremlin has obtained kompromat on Trump, I wouldn't doubt they had much problems replicating it on Mike the mouthpiece Johnson... But as long as there are journalism such as provided by the Telegraph, there's hope as well. Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
West is the definition of Moral Decadence. Look up history. It was White Western Christians who invaded America and killed 12 Million people to create 'USA'. It was UK, the lackey of USA, that supplied African slaves to USA. US supported dictators in Saud, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Jordan, Egypt routinely kill people for asking for Democracy. Egyptian military under orders from USA killed the Democratically elected leader just a few years ago. USA and lackey UK were fine when the Saudi dictator had Khasosgi killed off. ... Trump did not start any wars, Trump did not bomb civilians like Biden and Obama do. Kremlin's history, like that of China, is pristine compared to the history of invasion, rape, force-conversion done by the 'West'. Fortunately the West is rotting from inside. UK has a Indian Hindoo PM and a Pakistani Muslim Mayor of London. Democrats are gutting USA with BLM and Illegal Latinos. Russia and China are strong and getting stronger. Their clean history and civilized strength is being celebrated by the world as the 'West' becomes weaker. Morally decadent 'West' is finally being neutered. Celebrate. Or line up a therapist.
All lies F A K E news search Colonel Douglas McGregor who was in Desert Storm to get the facts of how Victoria Newland of USA staged the coup to install Zelensky and started the war in Ukraine
If the West is peopled buy human beings, then the East is peopled by inhumane beings. It seems though that many people in the West care more about tax rates than they do about Ukraine. So the West has its share of inhumane humans.🎉🎉🎉
yet again they completly ignore the fact that a peace offer was made and almost completed that would have left Ukraine with all of its territory all they had to do is allow Donbass to have autonomy like Chechnya has in Russia but no, they said we will not demilitarize and we will take Crimea back and look, Ukraine now loses those areas they could have kept
I absolutely love the Telegraph for their Ukraine coverage, though I am a more left wing voter. I appreciate the mainly (UK) neutral pose on this issue and listen to UTL almost daily. This is for me the gold standard of reporting. Thankyou Dom, Francis, David, Roland, HDG et al.
I am a conservative right wing voter mostly, but in this issue of Russian aggression against Ukraine I stand with my freemen and brothers, left or right against Russian aggression. I appreciate Telegraph's coverage of Ukraine and it's stand for justice. Great discussion today.
Ha ha.. UK neutral ha ha ..So Ukraine took Russia to the ICJ at the Hague on multiple,Multiple charges of war crimes going back to 2014 Invasion of Crimea onward.The highest court of this World found that all of Ukraine's charges/claims were unproven and Russia was found not guilty of all charges apart from one, which was 'not promoting the Ukrainian language in school's in Crimea' So people Wake up . We are the ones being lied to and its incredible that it is the West that's behind an Iron curtain . The case ended a couple of weeks ago.
@@johnh9805 So Ukraine took Russia to the ICJ at the Hague on multiple,Multiple charges of war crimes going back to 2014 Invasion of Crimea onward.The highest court of this World found that all of Ukraine's charges/claims were unproven and Russia was found not guilty of all charges apart from one, which was 'not promoting the Ukrainian language in school's in Crimea' So people Wake up . We are the ones being lied to and its incredible that it is the West that's behind an Iron curtain . The case ended a couple of weeks ago.
@@johnh9805 We should both teach the US how to agree & work together towards a common beneficial goal instead of destructive, partisan politics. Maybe Russia would think twice before attempting something like this again, instead of being encouraged!!
In the midst of British media coverage of the war generally tinged these days with pessimism, it is most encouraging to hear your remarkably positive and hopeful conversation on the second anniversary of Putin's atrocious invasion. We are fortunate to have your well-informed podcast available daily to raise our spirits and maintain our resolution in a struggle of truly global significance. СЛАВА УКРАЇНІ! ГЕРОЯМ СЛАВА! 🇺🇦🇨🇦
If Mexico made a defense alliance with Russia, would the U.S. accept their decision? Or would the UK if Ireland did the same? The whole conversation is so dishonest. It’s also cost ~million lives, so the pretense that this is the humanitarian argument is ridiculous. Mass hysteria led by very unimpressive people.
All lies F A K E news search Colonel Douglas McGregor who was in Desert Storm to get the facts of how Victoria Newland of USA staged the coup to install Zelensky and started the war in Ukraine
She is 100% correct...Russia needs to face its own Nuremberg. We should have NEVER joined forces with Russia to begin with. To add, Mr. Dearnley is very well versed. Good show.
Hitler invaded USSR in June 1941, US joined the war in December 1941. Britain needed an ally and if Hitler had defeated the USSR it would have been much more difficult to defeat him. But Britain and US should not have agreed with Stalin's desire to cast his power over the Eastern and Central Europe. And Soviet war crimes should have beem investigated and punished.
@@edwardmiessner6502 it’s the future that counts now, and Biden needs to step aside for the fresh approach that Harris will undoubtedly bring. Let’s not keep compounding the errors, at least.
It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation. War is hell.
So glad to have caught this. Such an important debate. We need to hear more from Oleksandra, Dom, Francis and David. They manage to penetrate to the heart of the predicament we find ourselves in like no mere news report can. I personally don't need to hear more as what I have heard is perfectly clear - that we are at a crucial point in terms of perception.
All lies F A K E news search Colonel Douglas McGregor who was in Desert Storm to get the facts of how Victoria Newland of USA staged the coup to install Zelensky and started the war in Ukraine
There is a world of difference between collateral damage (and one person wounded is hardly a big deal) and deliberate attacks on the civilian population.
AFU is a spent force. Zelensky believed assurances from West. But underestimated Russian resolve. 500,000 dead and maimed men. Peace talks scuppered by Johnson! John Mearsheimer predicted this war years ago.
These are beautiful but alas empty words. I have new vision of the future - I'm a millionaire on a yacht in Monaco surrounded by bikini models. Is it realistic though? Well...no
Excellent discussion especially the contribution of Ms Matviichuk. Unfortunately, Western leaders seem to be hoping that Ukraine can 'win' without Moscow 'losing', because of the complex dangers that would follow a defeat for Moscow. However, any kind of victory for Moscow would greatly increase the likelihood of global anarchy and many more wars. So, Moscow's invasion of Ukraine increases risk for every country near to them or near to their supporters
Not only countries near Russia have increased risk, other countries, which may looks easy prey to any autocratic countries. Because they all watching like evil may stay unpunished
The ammo shortage was totally predictable. WW1, 1915 the British govt almost fell over ammo shortages. The West got little right, with Crimea annexed in 2014 they still agreed to Nord Stream in 2015, which certainly helped finance Putin's 2022 invasion
These people are completely bonkers, if they think Russia is going to throw away its gains in Ukraine. Ukraine was never going to win this war. All the West has done is prolong the war and enabled the mass killings and destruction on both sides. The reality is, Ukraine lost the war the day the war opened. All that's happened since is just while we're waiting for Ukraine to accept the inevitable.
It is amazing that Russia had to go to Iran and NK because they needed help. All the money that the EU has are not giving Ukraine what they needs to help them win, every day more men are dying because we are not sending them the Amo that Ukraine need, it's like the West are looking at this like it's a football game, they have said they will go into Poland after Ukraine, is this what we are waiting for.
The Ukrainians don't have any men left, what good is ammo? The West doesn't have infinite supplies of munitions for Ukraine. The West doesn't have an industrial base anymore, so they can't even produce ammo if they need it but maybe taxpayers in Sheffield or Glasgow that can't access the NHS or pay their tuition fees might object to sending money the government says isn't there for basic services to Ukraine. It's always about "saving democracy" abroad while ignoring actual democracy at home.
they have gone much further. The baltics, Romania, and have even threatened to destroy berlin even worse than last time around. Putin is following in Stalin's footsteps. First eastern europe, then the baltics and moldova, then Poland and potentially finland. They did exactly the same thing, to the point that Hitler could no longer contain Stalin's expansion and had to declare war earlier than he wanted because the Wehrmacht wasn't quite ready yet. It was clear that Russia was about to run over Romania, a close German ally and its only major oil source. so it was then or never. History has only looked at the crimes of Germany in that time, but the fact is.. those were TWO evil regimes facing eachother and it was just a matter of who attacks first. everybody knows that Germany attacked poland but so often conveniently forge that Russia marched in at the same time from the other side, quickly annexed the baltics and then attacked Finland. Yet germany alone gets the blame for WW2, just like WW1 when Russia took a major part in starting the war. They are right in this discussion. Germany was justly punished, but due to the situation after the war and the shaky alliance with Russia, all their crimes and their initial alliance with Germany was swept under the rug and forgotten. Now we're paying the price for this.
As an American on the side of Ukraine, I am embarrassed at the timid support my government has given Ukraine and the willingness of Trump to side with Putin and abandon a Western democracy. I can not believe my nation is doing this. And the WEAK European support is no better.. It IS crewel.
The problem is, the lack of politicians WHO has fased personally evil, heavy stuff, and whos understanding is realistic intstead of hopeful, GREAT TALK, GREAT CLEAR EYED APPROACH, to the huge problem we face in Finland and elswere in the west. God bless Ukraina to navigate the evil labyrinth
All lies F A K E news search Colonel Douglas McGregor who was in Desert Storm to get the facts of how Victoria Newland of USA staged the coup to install Zelensky and started the war in Ukraine
Providing only 1/2 the story, as this panel does, is a main reason why many are hesitant to support Ukraine. Why is Russia an enemy? Russian values of Faith, Family and Country seem to have more in common with the average US citizen than the “multi-cultural” obsessed EU nations.
It's alarmist and baseless to say that Russia will invade other countries after this. This is all fearmongering to gain support for Ukraine. They want to present the idea that supporting Ukraine is for us.
@@TheAntsh Be of or under no illusions the free thinking world was evocatively forced into thought with the immediacy of Russia's invasion of a sovereign state .
@philipmain5701 He didn't. He signed the Minsk Agreements in good faith. It is now clear that he was misled, Merkel has admitted this. If Ukraine had signed the agreement at Istanbul, the issues would have been durably settled. But Biden and Johnson killed them, and started the war. There is no way Russia can invade Europe. It's impossible, not in their interests and would not be supported by Russians.
I like the whole team. Been listening to "The Latest" for months. At 15:15 Dom looks as though he is about to pop when Francis, with his terrific English, uses the word "misunderestimated". I believe that word has sometimes been called a "Bushism", after former US President George W. Bush, who famously said "Don't misunderestimate me." Well played, Francis.
Your headline feels spot on. Unless the collective free world steps up, and properly supports Ukraine to win, hands down, goodbye democracy as we have cherished it for decades. Never forget the tens of thousands who gave their lives for our freedom today. Never forget.
Very good! What is alarming an increasing group of my friends both leftwing and rightwing is how painfully insensitive our parents are to this war. We risk ending up in a trench fighting the invador and our parents the babyboomers who had such a great life don't seem to understand that it's time to man up and confront the dictator. Slava Ukraine love from Italy
russia needs to win & win decisively to prevent more bloodshed! it was zelensky who said 'no' to peace talks after boris johnson persuaded him to 'carry on fighting'! nothing to do with sid james & kenneth williams, btw!!!
Your parents are wise. They're old enough to know better that main threat to Italy is not from Russia but from crazy bureaucrats in Brussels with their asinine immigration legislation and net zero
Another example of weakness and lack of foresight by western european leaders was the expansion of the Nord-Stream pipeline project. In June 2015, an agreement to build Nord Stream 2 was signed between Gazprom, Royal Dutch Shell, E.ON, OMV, and Engie. By the start of 2015, Ukraine had already been attacked and a strategic portion of its territory had been colonized by Russian expansion.
Crimea with predominantly Russian population had a referendum. They voted in favour of joining Russia. Donbass was a part of Ukr then. So who attacked Ukr in 2015? It can't have been Russia.
@@TheAntshlet's google that referendum: Oh look… The referendum was illegal under the Constitution of Ukraine.[15] It is not recognized by most countries,[16] usually because of the presence of Russian forces.[17] Thirteen members of the United Nations Security Council voted in favor of a resolution declaring the referendum invalid, but Russia vetoed it and China abstained.[18][19] A United Nations General Assembly resolution was later adopted, by a vote of 100 in favor vs. 11 against with 58 abstentions, which declared the referendum invalid and affirmed Ukraine's territorial integrity.[17]
@anthonyhulse1248 I just forgot, were 3rd round of elections in 2004 or coup in 2014 in line with Ukr Constitution? It's all well and good copypasting Wikipedia but theory and practice are the same only in theory and in practice they are not. There's action->reaction or challenge->responce in geopolitics. 2014 coup was a challenge from US which was followed by response from Russia - referendum in Crimea and military deployment to ensure its smooth conduct (in 2015 military was recalled). Up until 2022 Russia was on responding side with Ukr. This time has passed when Zel started talking about taking Crimea back, joining Nato, wiping native Russians from Donbass and hosting nukes in Ukr and thus sealed Ukr fate. He should have never walked the primrose western path.
@@anthonyhulse1248Agreed, TheAntsh is just spouting Kremlin propoganda in an attempt to justify the illegal occupation of sovereign Ukrainian territory . Also when they say "2014 coup" I think they meant Maidan revolution of dignity.
I got glimpses of a better future, where it's plain to see the authoritarian model is unsuccessful and inhumane. Then I remember about 45% of my American fellow citizens can hardly wait to put authoritarianism into practice. And I'm flummoxed all over again.
Freaking Nailed-it, Sir… Lest we forget, that all-important 55% of American’s, STILL remains.. Stepping-up ~ Speaking-out ~ Encouraging others to do the same! ~ *Contacting their Representatives, again, and again, and again!! 🇺🇸🇺🇦🇬🇧
Hate to say it but Canada is on the same trajectory. Some of these people seem to hope that, by ending democracy, they are going to return to the values of the 1950s. Others, however, seem to understand that it will be more like 1940s Germany but are fine with that as long as they will be the ones doing the persecuting.
In the West we allow dissent, Putin has used this against us particularly using the internet. We are loosing any sense of common cause, destroying ourselves from within.
All lies F A K E news search Colonel Douglas McGregor who was in Desert Storm to get the facts of how Victoria Newland of USA staged the coup to install Zelensky and started the war in Ukraine
Sadly, Ukraine has a serious Republican problem here in the US. That's also a problem for Europe. The bright side is that Europe can pull it together for the sake of Ukraine. But the GOP is a serious problem for peace in both Europe and the world.
A United States controlled by a GOP in full power would be an existential threat to freedom and democracy everywhere because it would realign itself with Russia. And if course our constitutional republic would be replaced with a Republican one-party totalitarian state.
The GOP has been co-opted by authoritarian ideals. The West has failed to take Putin's intentions seriously while he has taken advantage of Western freedoms & social media to undermine our common cause. Divide & conquer
@@icu17siberia Apathy was not the problem in 1913, more so the tangled web of complex military defense alliances, of which a minor, local problem escalated. Historic illiteracy is the problem today, however, it would seem.
@@Dude0000 Yeah I also think if Germany wasn't in such economic downfall as in the 1930's not "everyone" would've cheared for the one guy who seemly seemed to fix it.
@@Ata5llEurope has learned nothing from the last centuries and the US took from it that they are exceptional and cannot do anything wrong. Our freedom fighters, their terrorists.
No-one representing a Russian perspective - I suppose this is what counts as 'balance' at The Telegraph, at least for now. Can we hope for a return to some attempt at objectivity, eventually.
The highly reputable Pew Research Center published a study on February 23, 2024 that, “Two years on from Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, 74% of Americans view the war there as important to U.S. national interests - with 43% describing it as very important." Self-identified republicans at 69%, Democrats at 81%. This is overwhelming support for the Ukrainian people with 59% of Americans overall saying that this war is important to them personally. The republican obstructionists in the US House will be even more pressured to pass the Senate-approved aid package now that it’s out in the open that a strong majority of their republican base supports Ukraine and her people. 🌻
I don’t think ‘Rule by Poll’ has helped the average person in the West. Quite the contrary, as it merely justifies the government to do whatever it wants.
All lies F A K E news search Colonel Douglas McGregor who was in Desert Storm to get the facts of how Victoria Newland of USA staged the coup to install Zelensky and started the war in Ukraine
He changed it to "As long as we can", when congress didn't pass the foreign aid. These guys are snakes,pay attention. Usa can end war in a day if it wanted.but they want to kill atleeast 1 million Russians so they will sacrifice 1 million innocent Ukrainians for it🙃
Putin is entirely lucid. He gambled that The West would dither. He was right. We are dithering. He is certainly not losing. Not yet and possibly not ever.
It seems to me that many conflicts of the last 75 years could have been avoided if the design of the UN was such that it was not completely controlled by the victors of WW2. Perhaps it is time for a third iteration of global policing that is more inclusive of every country on earth. A strong UN without a Russian veto power (or US veto) could perhaps have handled this kind of situation. My heart goes out to Ukrainians upon whom this genocide has been inflicted. I do have some measure of sympathy for the Russian families that will never see their loved ones again because of this horrible waste of life and material.
All lies F A K E news search Colonel Douglas McGregor who was in Desert Storm to get the facts of how Victoria Newland of USA staged the coup to install Zelensky and started the war in Ukraine
The Idea of holding Russia accountable, is like telling WW2 Germany we wouldn’t settle except for unconditional surrender. Some of us in America see Russia as pushing back just to protect its own borders.
NATO: comes to Russian borders. Russia: please go back to 1991 borders. We are worried about our security. *war starts* Russia: Now let's talk about EU-Russia security NATO: WTF? Russia is gonna start WWIII !!!
It's hilarious to see how the anglo-american warmongers keep spreading fancy stories about "Russia must lose". They'd better keep in mind how the touristic adventures from Napoleon (1812) and Hitler (1945) in that direction ended...
Unfortunately victory seems unlikely whilst Adolf Putler remains in power. Putler is no longer fighting for Russia's survival, never was actually, he's made it personal and now his top priority would be his own political survival at best.
I am Swiss and I beliebe in Democracy. Direct Democracy if possible. But I also believe that we should all try to think the thoughts that the people in this group are discussing. Democracy needs weapons to stop Putins march west.
It all started when US carried out a coup d'etat with the help of Victoria Nuland and Geoffrey Pyatt in Kiev at Maidan. Crimea voted literally en masse to rejoin Russia when they saw which way the wind was blowing in Kiev against Russian speakers. Donetsk and Luhansk wanted to remain autonomous but stay in Ukraine but Poroshenko disagreed so Ukrainians attacked Donbass cities. Along came the Minsk agreement which Ukraine was supposed to implement but failed to do so, Germany and France were supposed to guarantee implementatyion of Misnsk agreement but failed to do so. Ukraine was preparing an offensive to subjugate the Donbass but Russia got in before them and spoilt the US/NATO game.
A great presentation that I have had the privelege to listen to for a long time. It is great to see the faces behind this broadcast. The West must lift its game and provide Ukraine with all the assistance it needs. This war must not be allowed to drag on!
It's amazing the way we in the West discuss among ourselves why we are morally right and what should happen. But what if Russia with its backing from BRICS and the global south is just to strong for Ukraine and NATO? Why not talk to the Russians?
Morals and the west is exactly the same as 'friendly fire' a total oxymoron. They won't negotiate because that would need an acceptance of reality. They prefer to repeat the same redundant talking points while Ukraine is turned into a rump state.
Is it accurate to say that an invasion or profound defeat is required to spark change? The British empire was enormously repressive against many subjects, even Churchill had opinions which would be frowned upon today. At the time of WW2 the US heavily discriminated, through behaviour but also through lawm against its coloured population. Neither the US nor Britain lost WW2, leaders (civil or military) were not held responsible for atrocities carried out during the war (fire bombing Tokyo, area bombing in Germany, ...) and yet both countries grew to be societies wich promote justice, freedom, sovereignty and rule of law over the decades following the end of WW2. Russia can reform too, though that it will happen is not a given - but the west can make plans to support Russia in making the right choice at each crossroad it comes to.
The British Empire was enormously _generous_ to its colonies. The project of the British Empire, from the mid-19th century to the 1960s was to raise the backward and savage nations up to the level of modernity. It was an absurdly ambitious project, but it turned out pretty successful in the end: By the 1960s, places that had been pure jungle with no roads, no writing, no technology more advanced than mud huts, spears, and clay pots, had cities with electricity, running water from taps, schools, colleges, hospitals, railways, macadamised roads, telephones, factories producing goods for export, etc., etc. This was not an accident. It was a deliberate plan, debated in Parliament over several years in the 1850s/60s.
In 2014, Ukraine experienced an undemocratic takeover that led to civil war because the eastern part of Ukraine did not agree with it. And the usurpers sent an army against them, which provoked the separation of Crimea and other territories (Donbass). Your discussion is pure Western propaganda.
The Telegraph team don't want to see negotiations with Russia. With hundreds of thousands dead & wounded, the economy in ruins & the obvious reluctance of Ukrainians to join the fight & be mobilised, it would be interesting to hear the opinion of the Ukrainian population....although, of course, there will be no elections to allow that.
The Torygraph is propaganda for the US/British military industrial complex. Nothing more. These snooty twits earn a living doing what is arguably one of the sleaziest and most evil "work" known to humanity: selling war. Having helped to destroy Ukraine, they now risk demolishing civilisation as a whole with their spiteful insistence on needlessly provoking Russia.
@@thamor4746 I have seen opinions of Russians that disagree with the war, and respect their point of view. What I don't see is a platform given to Ukrainians that disagree with their government's adamant decision not to begin negotiations. Perhaps the Telegraph team will use their podcast to give them a voice ?
@@thamor4746 They a shill that rendered their own opinion moot because they very likely not Ukrainian and are just trying hit appeasement talking points because they think it's cool to be a wet noodle contrarian
A fascinating conversation. Oleksandra's point about not waiting for the end of the war to start having the criminals accountable for the crimes that have been perpertated is really something the the Western leaders should start thinking more about.
As Oleksandra points out, the war has been going on for ten years, not for two.
Sun Tzu, the Art of War: 'Know your enemy' - the West has failed on this wrt Russia.
I wonder why the people who got us into Iraq, are hesitant about ‘punishing aggression’?
It made Russia its enemy by paying for the 2014 Coup which then started ethnic cleansing the Russia Population in Ukraine.
The West doesn't know itself either which is the rest of Tse's formula. It abandoned Truth a millenium ago in the Great Schism. Which was when this war really started. It is a spiritual fight. Western media admits it interestingly. The West chose succumb to the Snake's proposition in Genesis 3. Going the way of hybris and Pride which it openly celebrates. Perverted the rainbow which was a symbol for the covenant between man and God. Removed its vertical component, with only nihilism left. It is impossible not to defeat such a spiritually debased culture as the West has become. Which was predicted btw by such as Saint Palamas. Repent or be destroyed.
The West is irredeemably arrogant.
This thought-provoking unofficial debate between non-political, yet first-hand knowledgeable speakers should be aired across Western nations. We are living through very dangerous days and here we are being given a gentle but firm warning ! Time is precious - is there still time for collective realisation and for action to be taken ?🤞
At 72yrs l have seen so much apathetic rhetoric from politicians that are platitudes for the moment not for the long haul. At 70 l went to Ukrain from Manchester twice with medical supplies twice before going home to Australia. My father was a tank commander of 3 tanks Welsh guards armoured division) & fought through to Germany getting blown up twice. We have done something & want to do more if l get the chance. Here in OZ very few discuss the war that threatens their peaceful lives. God help us all for our complacency as it's costing Ukrain & indeed Russian lives. Shame on us.
Yes, I agree... if we look at all global conflicts that have ever happened to our planet, it's all started from and by the western idiot leaders. This war is absurd and it shouldn't have happened... my fear is that the pacific war is coming soon.. with all this AUKUS, QUAD, and so on... and it's another incredibly stupid war if it ever happened.
The war in Ukraine has nothing to do with Australia and lets keep it that way. Leave the US and the UK to pretend they can control the globe.
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Well put!
Another amazing discussion to listen to. I particularly enjoyed the discuss around the statement by western leaders of “as long as it takes”. Dom has the perfect response to that statement, which is “to do what”.
On this second anniversary of this war, I am unfortunately coming to the conclusion that “the west or democratic countries” have not learned the lessons of history and as such are doomed to repeat it.
History never ever repeats itself only propagandarist do that ?
Exactly right
I agree. I am not sure politicians even are sure themselves!
@@jonathancollett8322Well, they are sure that they would rather burn the world in ww3 if the alternative would be loosing their position in the world as part of the block with absolute power with their "rules based order".
Watch this for a accurate info how USA started the Ukraine war th-cam.com/video/HehqZsUDoGY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=na1EbRHaiwPbsxOw
Absolutely wonderful. It is so inspiring to hear the thoughts and ideas of the panel . Alexandra inspired so much hope. How can one not take up arms and regain hope when such a woman who has seen so much pain and brutality eludes such a gentle and humane, yet determined courage. While there are people like our panelists and there are many, humanity and democratic values will prevail.
Yes! Great balanced discussion, right!! x4 warmongers! More weapons?? I shake my head at the ignorance, it's actually so sad. Poor Ukraine! She is FULLOFIT!!
Say no to war. Say yes to peace.
Simple
dumb
Excellent clip! Oleksandra is right. Russification of Ukrain is not a new invention. My great grandmother was born in Lisichansk 1898. She only spoke Ukrainian. My grandmother who was born in 1924 understood Ukrainian but spoke only Russian. My father was born in 1944 spoke only Russia until they moved to Poland in 1957.
Well done, Ukraine: The Latest team! Two years of war... So sad. Thanks for sharing and bringing us along on your trip to Kyiv. Safe travels and safe home. Slava Ukraini!
These people are completely bonkers, if they think Russia is going to throw away its gains in Ukraine. Ukraine was never going to win this war. All the West has done is prolong the war and enabled the mass killings and destruction on both sides. The reality is, Ukraine lost the war the day the war opened. All that's happened since is just while we're waiting for Ukraine to accept the inevitable.
🤡🤡
All lies F A K E news search Colonel Douglas McGregor who was in Desert Storm to get the facts of how Victoria Newland of USA staged the coup to install Zelensky and started the war in Ukraine
I enjoy having faces to match to the voices.
Your podcast is excellent.
I enjoy it too but my head finds it confusing😂
@@priscillazietsman1300 Lol... indeed! Great podcast.
Yes, seeing the faces is a shock after 2 years of listening. Without vision I had images in my head which are nothing like the reality. 😂
@@Humphreyat86 Dom sort of looks like he sounds but David and Francis were a surprise.
@@ropeburnsrussell Dom looks younger than he sounds too.
It is so good to hear Oleksandra point out that Russian advances is not just a matter of territory but of huge violations of human rights and changes in culture and demographics. I'd add that the failure to supply weapons only rewards and enables an ever aggressive Russia. Great discussion!
So Ukraine took Russia to the ICJ at the Hague on multiple,Multiple charges of war crimes going back to 2014 Invasion of Crimea onward.The highest court of this World found that all of Ukraine's charges/claims were unproven and Russia was found not guilty of all charges apart from one, which was 'not promoting the Ukrainian language in school's in Crimea' So people Wake up . We are the ones being lied to and its incredible that it is the West that's behind an Iron curtain . The case ended a couple of weeks ago.
Ukrainians are fighting on both sides - from Donbas and Crimea.
I'd take what she says with a grain of salt. While there's undeniably some collateral damage and civilians do suffer during military action she has an agenda and uses hardly believable stories like Russians deliberately shelling maternity hospitals (if they were then they did it only to get Ukr military who often use civilians like human shield) and emotional second hand accounts.
Unfortunately empty words from skillful agitators like Francis may be extremely dangerous - he creates a false sense of hope and optimism in a grim situation that requires facing cold hard facts and not Kool Aid.
@@TheAntsh Well said I agree.Ukraine took Russia to the ICJ at the Hague on multiple,Multiple charges of war crimes going back to 2014 Invasion of Crimea onward.The highest court of this World found that all of Ukraine's charges/claims were unproven and Russia was found not guilty of all charges apart from one, which was 'not promoting the Ukrainian language in school's in Crimea' So people Wake up . We are the ones being lied to and its incredible that it is the West that's behind an Iron curtain . The case ended a couple of weeks ago.
@@TheAntsh Lol, good try. RuZZia is a mafia state. Now Jog on!🤡
Criminals are those who commit crimes ... as well as those who watch and do nothing.
Cant believe people think Ukraine's freedom is worth a potential world war. Truly a scary thought
They are WHYTE ofcourse it is!!! 🫨
Absolutely agreed with Dom, Francis and with rest of the Telegraph team.
I'd have never thought witnessing this uttermost morale decadence here in West.
The Kremlin has obtained kompromat on Trump, I wouldn't doubt they had much problems replicating it on Mike the mouthpiece Johnson...
But as long as there are journalism such as provided by the Telegraph, there's hope as well.
Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
What?!!
I'm so disgusted with my government right now. I support Ukraine, freedom and Democracy. God bless Ukraine with freedom!
West is the definition of Moral Decadence. Look up history. It was White Western Christians who invaded America and killed 12 Million people to create 'USA'. It was UK, the lackey of USA, that supplied African slaves to USA. US supported dictators in Saud, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Jordan, Egypt routinely kill people for asking for Democracy. Egyptian military under orders from USA killed the Democratically elected leader just a few years ago. USA and lackey UK were fine when the Saudi dictator had Khasosgi killed off.
... Trump did not start any wars, Trump did not bomb civilians like Biden and Obama do. Kremlin's history, like that of China, is pristine compared to the history of invasion, rape, force-conversion done by the 'West'.
Fortunately the West is rotting from inside. UK has a Indian Hindoo PM and a Pakistani Muslim Mayor of London. Democrats are gutting USA with BLM and Illegal Latinos. Russia and China are strong and getting stronger. Their clean history and civilized strength is being celebrated by the world as the 'West' becomes weaker. Morally decadent 'West' is finally being neutered. Celebrate. Or line up a therapist.
All lies F A K E news search Colonel Douglas McGregor who was in Desert Storm to get the facts of how Victoria Newland of USA staged the coup to install Zelensky and started the war in Ukraine
Europe needs to talk less and start doing.
Absolutely
A powerful and thought provoking podcast. Thanks guys.
No.
@@VladPutin88rubbish 2 month old account
If the West is peopled buy human beings, then the East is peopled by inhumane beings. It seems though that many people in the West care more about tax rates than they do about Ukraine. So the West has its share of inhumane humans.🎉🎉🎉
yet again they completly ignore the fact that a peace offer was made and almost completed that would have left Ukraine with all of its territory
all they had to do is allow Donbass to have autonomy like Chechnya has in Russia
but no, they said we will not demilitarize and we will take Crimea back
and look, Ukraine now loses those areas they could have kept
what im more surprised about is that the comment section are open usually the telegraph closes them
I absolutely love the Telegraph for their Ukraine coverage, though I am a more left wing voter. I appreciate the mainly (UK) neutral pose on this issue and listen to UTL almost daily. This is for me the gold standard of reporting. Thankyou Dom, Francis, David, Roland, HDG et al.
I am a conservative right wing voter mostly, but in this issue of Russian aggression against Ukraine I stand with my freemen and brothers, left or right against Russian aggression. I appreciate Telegraph's coverage of Ukraine and it's stand for justice. Great discussion today.
Ha ha.. UK neutral ha ha ..So Ukraine took Russia to the ICJ at the Hague on multiple,Multiple charges of war crimes going back to 2014 Invasion of Crimea onward.The highest court of this World found that all of Ukraine's charges/claims were unproven and Russia was found not guilty of all charges apart from one, which was 'not promoting the Ukrainian language in school's in Crimea' So people Wake up . We are the ones being lied to and its incredible that it is the West that's behind an Iron curtain . The case ended a couple of weeks ago.
@@johnh9805 So Ukraine took Russia to the ICJ at the Hague on multiple,Multiple charges of war crimes going back to 2014 Invasion of Crimea onward.The highest court of this World found that all of Ukraine's charges/claims were unproven and Russia was found not guilty of all charges apart from one, which was 'not promoting the Ukrainian language in school's in Crimea' So people Wake up . We are the ones being lied to and its incredible that it is the West that's behind an Iron curtain . The case ended a couple of weeks ago.
@@johnh9805 We should both teach the US how to agree & work together towards a common beneficial goal instead of destructive, partisan politics. Maybe Russia would think twice before attempting something like this again, instead of being encouraged!!
Bots “ gold standard for reporting”bwhahahahahahhahah no way a real person said that
These people are absolutely insane
In the midst of British media coverage of the war generally tinged these days with pessimism, it is most encouraging to hear your remarkably positive and hopeful conversation on the second anniversary of Putin's atrocious invasion. We are fortunate to have your well-informed podcast available daily to raise our spirits and maintain our resolution in a struggle of truly global significance. СЛАВА УКРАЇНІ! ГЕРОЯМ СЛАВА! 🇺🇦🇨🇦
If Mexico made a defense alliance with Russia, would the U.S. accept their decision? Or would the UK if Ireland did the same? The whole conversation is so dishonest. It’s also cost ~million lives, so the pretense that this is the humanitarian argument is ridiculous.
Mass hysteria led by very unimpressive people.
"fatigue is a luxury." Worth repeating.
Fatigue? From doing what?
@@robertmiskey5502 Fatigue from sitting on the fence as nothing more than an idle spectator. Idle people are easily exhausted.
Luxury is one nation fighting for the freedom of the world.
@@R.Iamondi Well said.
All lies F A K E news search Colonel Douglas McGregor who was in Desert Storm to get the facts of how Victoria Newland of USA staged the coup to install Zelensky and started the war in Ukraine
She is 100% correct...Russia needs to face its own Nuremberg. We should have NEVER joined forces with Russia to begin with. To add, Mr. Dearnley is very well versed. Good show.
Exactly. Winston Churchill and Franklin Delano Roosevelt should have told the Soviets that they were on their own.
Hitler invaded USSR in June 1941, US joined the war in December 1941. Britain needed an ally and if Hitler had defeated the USSR it would have been much more difficult to defeat him. But Britain and US should not have agreed with Stalin's desire to cast his power over the Eastern and Central Europe. And Soviet war crimes should have beem investigated and punished.
Ukraine will face its own Berlin
@@edwardmiessner6502 it’s the future that counts now, and Biden needs to step aside for the fresh approach that Harris will undoubtedly bring. Let’s not keep compounding the errors, at least.
Bush and Blair should be on trail first for war crimes
It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation. War is hell.
Stay strong Slava Ukraina Absolutely agreed with Dom, Francis and with rest of the Telegraph team.
So glad to have caught this. Such an important debate. We need to hear more from Oleksandra, Dom, Francis and David. They manage to penetrate to the heart of the predicament we find ourselves in like no mere news report can. I personally don't need to hear more as what I have heard is perfectly clear - that we are at a crucial point in terms of perception.
Yeah so informative right?? Goodness me!
All lies F A K E news search Colonel Douglas McGregor who was in Desert Storm to get the facts of how Victoria Newland of USA staged the coup to install Zelensky and started the war in Ukraine
What makes me sad is that Ukraine, and all the rest of the world, will never be safe as long as an authoritarian form of government exists.
dumb
Like the USA?
himars on a wedding in Donetsk? THIS is what the lady in your show defends. Go on...
There is a world of difference between collateral damage (and one person wounded is hardly a big deal) and deliberate attacks on the civilian population.
I can not believe that the west is so unbelievably short sighted to not see that if Ukraine loses the west is in for a massive shock!!
Laughing my Azov 😂
AFU is a spent force. Zelensky believed assurances from West. But underestimated Russian resolve. 500,000 dead and maimed men. Peace talks scuppered by Johnson! John Mearsheimer predicted this war years ago.
Not much will happen.
comment of an ignorant mind.
Dom is right, we need a new vision of the future
These are beautiful but alas empty words. I have new vision of the future - I'm a millionaire on a yacht in Monaco surrounded by bikini models. Is it realistic though? Well...no
We need to repair Nordstream
Excellent discussion especially the contribution of Ms Matviichuk. Unfortunately, Western leaders seem to be hoping that Ukraine can 'win' without Moscow 'losing', because of the complex dangers that would follow a defeat for Moscow. However, any kind of victory for Moscow would greatly increase the likelihood of global anarchy and many more wars. So, Moscow's invasion of Ukraine increases risk for every country near to them or near to their supporters
Not only countries near Russia have increased risk, other countries, which may looks easy prey to any autocratic countries. Because they all watching like evil may stay unpunished
Zelensky is dilutional
Nobody is gonna break us 🌎🇺🇦🌻
Hilarious how every time somebody says invasion, they absolutely have to prefix it with FULL SCALE 😂😂😂
A full scale invasion was the US in Iraq, bombed the military facilities and civilian infrastructure for 56 days before the ground attack.
Unprovoked my a$$
The ammo shortage was totally predictable. WW1, 1915 the British govt almost fell over ammo shortages. The West got little right, with Crimea annexed in 2014 they still agreed to Nord Stream in 2015, which certainly helped finance Putin's 2022 invasion
Much love! Slava Ukraini!
These people are completely bonkers, if they think Russia is going to throw away its gains in Ukraine. Ukraine was never going to win this war. All the West has done is prolong the war and enabled the mass killings and destruction on both sides. The reality is, Ukraine lost the war the day the war opened. All that's happened since is just while we're waiting for Ukraine to accept the inevitable.
It is amazing that Russia had to go to Iran and NK because they needed help. All the money that the EU has are not giving Ukraine what they needs to help them win, every day more men are dying because we are not sending them the Amo that Ukraine need, it's like the West are looking at this like it's a football game, they have said they will go into Poland after Ukraine, is this what we are waiting for.
The Ukrainians don't have any men left, what good is ammo? The West doesn't have infinite supplies of munitions for Ukraine. The West doesn't have an industrial base anymore, so they can't even produce ammo if they need it but maybe taxpayers in Sheffield or Glasgow that can't access the NHS or pay their tuition fees might object to sending money the government says isn't there for basic services to Ukraine. It's always about "saving democracy" abroad while ignoring actual democracy at home.
they have gone much further. The baltics, Romania, and have even threatened to destroy berlin even worse than last time around. Putin is following in Stalin's footsteps. First eastern europe, then the baltics and moldova, then Poland and potentially finland. They did exactly the same thing, to the point that Hitler could no longer contain Stalin's expansion and had to declare war earlier than he wanted because the Wehrmacht wasn't quite ready yet. It was clear that Russia was about to run over Romania, a close German ally and its only major oil source. so it was then or never. History has only looked at the crimes of Germany in that time, but the fact is.. those were TWO evil regimes facing eachother and it was just a matter of who attacks first. everybody knows that Germany attacked poland but so often conveniently forge that Russia marched in at the same time from the other side, quickly annexed the baltics and then attacked Finland. Yet germany alone gets the blame for WW2, just like WW1 when Russia took a major part in starting the war.
They are right in this discussion. Germany was justly punished, but due to the situation after the war and the shaky alliance with Russia, all their crimes and their initial alliance with Germany was swept under the rug and forgotten. Now we're paying the price for this.
Seriously. Nobody really thinks that this is a stalemate.
As an American on the side of Ukraine, I am embarrassed at the timid support my government has given Ukraine and the willingness of Trump to side with Putin and abandon a Western democracy. I can not believe my nation is doing this. And the WEAK European support is no better.. It IS crewel.
The problem is, the lack of politicians WHO has fased personally evil, heavy stuff, and whos understanding is realistic intstead of hopeful, GREAT TALK, GREAT CLEAR EYED APPROACH, to the huge problem we face in Finland and elswere in the west. God bless Ukraina to navigate the evil labyrinth
All lies, Watch this for a accurate info how USA started the Ukraine war th-cam.com/video/HehqZsUDoGY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=na1EbRHaiwPbsxOw
All lies F A K E news search Colonel Douglas McGregor who was in Desert Storm to get the facts of how Victoria Newland of USA staged the coup to install Zelensky and started the war in Ukraine
Providing only 1/2 the story, as this panel does, is a main reason why many are hesitant to support Ukraine. Why is Russia an enemy? Russian values of Faith, Family and Country seem to have more in common with the average US citizen than the “multi-cultural” obsessed EU nations.
Really? Judging on them action more obvious Russian values are genocide of other nations people, approving war crimes, killing, raping, stoling etc.
This is plain stupid.
Guys, as always a very thought provoking discussion, continue the excellent work.
Didn't they have 2 years to provoke thoughts?
It's alarmist and baseless to say that Russia will invade other countries after this. This is all fearmongering to gain support for Ukraine. They want to present the idea that supporting Ukraine is for us.
@@TheAntsh Be of or under no illusions the free thinking world was evocatively forced into thought with the immediacy of Russia's invasion of a sovereign state .
Clear, unambiguous, morally and historically of our time. Sadly, aspects of this analysis would equally have applied in the late 1930’s.
60 years since the end of WW2? And the west has forgotten any of the lessons that lead up to that disaster?
There's no analog here. Russia is not going to invade Europe. To suggest that they would is either alarmist or deliberately mendacious.
@@yuglesstube Putin once said he had no intention to invade Ukraine - where did that lead?
@philipmain5701 He didn't. He signed the Minsk Agreements in good faith. It is now clear that he was misled, Merkel has admitted this.
If Ukraine had signed the agreement at Istanbul, the issues would have been durably settled.
But Biden and Johnson killed them, and started the war.
There is no way Russia can invade Europe. It's impossible, not in their interests and would not be supported by Russians.
Even sadder that so many of our politicians aren't listening.
Such a great conversation! Gloom but also hope and determination.
Francis your english is impressive. Pleasure to listen
I like Dom
@@Cue_D_ball me too
I like the whole team. Been listening to "The Latest" for months. At 15:15 Dom looks as though he is about to pop when Francis, with his terrific English, uses the word "misunderestimated". I believe that word has sometimes been called a "Bushism", after former US President George W. Bush, who famously said "Don't misunderestimate me." Well played, Francis.
He has a rare skill to feed one full shovels of bs while sounding very reasonable and believable
@@TheAntsh Agreed, Tucker Carlson is very good at convincing some who more impressionable and lack the skills to inform themselves.
Your headline feels spot on. Unless the collective free world steps up, and properly supports Ukraine to win, hands down, goodbye democracy as we have cherished it for decades. Never forget the tens of thousands who gave their lives for our freedom today. Never forget.
I have no doubt that my Grandfather who fought in WWII is rolling in his grave.
People who support the ukraine aren't MAGA, and are on the wrong side of history.
Putin's coming close to completing his war of attrition.
Very good! What is alarming an increasing group of my friends both leftwing and rightwing is how painfully insensitive our parents are to this war.
We risk ending up in a trench fighting the invador and our parents the babyboomers who had such a great life don't seem to understand that it's time to man up and confront the dictator.
Slava Ukraine love from Italy
russia needs to win & win decisively to prevent more bloodshed! it was zelensky who said 'no' to peace talks after boris johnson persuaded him to 'carry on fighting'! nothing to do with sid james & kenneth williams, btw!!!
Your parents are wise. They're old enough to know better that main threat to Italy is not from Russia but from crazy bureaucrats in Brussels with their asinine immigration legislation and net zero
Your parents are wise and they know Domino theory is a hoax
today's ukrainians & israelis are warmongers!!!@@TheAntsh
Rubbish
An Excellent and mature video
2015 - 2021: Russia is rearming its army with money from oil sales to Europe for a full-scale seizure of all of Ukraine.
Misuse of democracy fear all talk nice dinners and no action
Slava russiji
Another example of weakness and lack of foresight by western european leaders was the expansion of the Nord-Stream pipeline project. In June 2015, an agreement to build Nord Stream 2 was signed between Gazprom, Royal Dutch Shell, E.ON, OMV, and Engie. By the start of 2015, Ukraine had already been attacked and a strategic portion of its territory had been colonized by Russian expansion.
Crimea with predominantly Russian population had a referendum. They voted in favour of joining Russia. Donbass was a part of Ukr then. So who attacked Ukr in 2015? It can't have been Russia.
@@TheAntshlet's google that referendum: Oh look… The referendum was illegal under the Constitution of Ukraine.[15] It is not recognized by most countries,[16] usually because of the presence of Russian forces.[17] Thirteen members of the United Nations Security Council voted in favor of a resolution declaring the referendum invalid, but Russia vetoed it and China abstained.[18][19] A United Nations General Assembly resolution was later adopted, by a vote of 100 in favor vs. 11 against with 58 abstentions, which declared the referendum invalid and affirmed Ukraine's territorial integrity.[17]
@anthonyhulse1248 I just forgot, were 3rd round of elections in 2004 or coup in 2014 in line with Ukr Constitution?
It's all well and good copypasting Wikipedia but theory and practice are the same only in theory and in practice they are not. There's action->reaction or challenge->responce in geopolitics. 2014 coup was a challenge from US which was followed by response from Russia - referendum in Crimea and military deployment to ensure its smooth conduct (in 2015 military was recalled). Up until 2022 Russia was on responding side with Ukr. This time has passed when Zel started talking about taking Crimea back, joining Nato, wiping native Russians from Donbass and hosting nukes in Ukr and thus sealed Ukr fate. He should have never walked the primrose western path.
@@anthonyhulse1248Agreed, TheAntsh is just spouting Kremlin propoganda in an attempt to justify the illegal occupation of sovereign Ukrainian territory . Also when they say "2014 coup" I think they meant Maidan revolution of dignity.
Right
Europeans let's wake up and help Ukraine to defend our values🙏😓
Thanks Telegraph for continuous reporting on this issue. Regards from Slovakia🤞
Can individuals set up workshops to make ammunition or drones?
Google ‘Operation Mockingbird’.
Like how? We are all suffering with huge debts and the breakdown of society.
@@sanatajIn Ukraine some people are already making drones at their own to help our defenders and at least partially compensate lack of ammunition
@@ammaheinonThe alternative option may cost much more.
I got glimpses of a better future, where it's plain to see the authoritarian model is unsuccessful and inhumane. Then I remember about 45% of my American fellow citizens can hardly wait to put authoritarianism into practice. And I'm flummoxed all over again.
Freaking Nailed-it, Sir… Lest we forget, that all-important 55% of American’s, STILL remains.. Stepping-up ~ Speaking-out ~ Encouraging others to do the same! ~ *Contacting their Representatives, again, and again, and again!! 🇺🇸🇺🇦🇬🇧
Hate to say it but Canada is on the same trajectory. Some of these people seem to hope that, by ending democracy, they are going to return to the values of the 1950s. Others, however, seem to understand that it will be more like 1940s Germany but are fine with that as long as they will be the ones doing the persecuting.
Your future was secured by the soviets russia so shut up
In the West we allow dissent, Putin has used this against us particularly using the internet. We are loosing any sense of common cause, destroying ourselves from within.
I take it that ‘Revolutions of Dignity’ of integral parts of Democracy?
I agree 100%. Keep our promises, stop rehashing it and send Ukraine The Steel.
Oleksandra... Bravo!
All lies, Watch this for a accurate info how USA started the Ukraine war th-cam.com/video/HehqZsUDoGY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=na1EbRHaiwPbsxOw
All lies F A K E news search Colonel Douglas McGregor who was in Desert Storm to get the facts of how Victoria Newland of USA staged the coup to install Zelensky and started the war in Ukraine
Sadly, Ukraine has a serious Republican problem here in the US. That's also a problem for Europe. The bright side is that Europe can pull it together for the sake of Ukraine. But the GOP is a serious problem for peace in both Europe and the world.
A United States controlled by a GOP in full power would be an existential threat to freedom and democracy everywhere because it would realign itself with Russia. And if course our constitutional republic would be replaced with a Republican one-party totalitarian state.
The GOP has been co-opted by authoritarian ideals. The West has failed to take Putin's intentions seriously while he has taken advantage of Western freedoms & social media to undermine our common cause. Divide & conquer
Propaganda storytelling
We're already past 1935 AND Biden should have never said "we will not enter Ukraine when Russia invades" to begin with.
Fully agreed 👍
Pootin understood green light !!
Why does everyone’s historical knowledge on matters of conflict, start and end with WW2? Less than useless, really.
@@icu17siberia Apathy was not the problem in 1913, more so the tangled web of complex military defense alliances, of which a minor, local problem escalated.
Historic illiteracy is the problem today, however, it would seem.
@@Dude0000 Yeah I also think if Germany wasn't in such economic downfall as in the 1930's not "everyone" would've cheared for the one guy who seemly seemed to fix it.
@@Ata5llEurope has learned nothing from the last centuries and the US took from it that they are exceptional and cannot do anything wrong. Our freedom fighters, their terrorists.
No-one representing a Russian perspective - I suppose this is what counts as 'balance' at The Telegraph, at least for now. Can we hope for a return to some attempt at objectivity, eventually.
I love the suit Francis Dearnley is rocking. Great interview.
The highly reputable Pew Research Center published a study on February 23, 2024 that, “Two years on from Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, 74% of Americans view the war there as important to U.S. national interests - with 43% describing it as very important." Self-identified republicans at 69%, Democrats at 81%. This is overwhelming support for the Ukrainian people with 59% of Americans overall saying that this war is important to them personally.
The republican obstructionists in the US House will be even more pressured to pass the Senate-approved aid package now that it’s out in the open that a strong majority of their republican base supports Ukraine and her people. 🌻
" highly reputable" according to whom?
I don’t think ‘Rule by Poll’ has helped the average person in the West. Quite the contrary, as it merely justifies the government to do whatever it wants.
Thanks, Telegragh.
All lies F A K E news search Colonel Douglas McGregor who was in Desert Storm to get the facts of how Victoria Newland of USA staged the coup to install Zelensky and started the war in Ukraine
My heart sank when Biden said “as long as it takes”. That was a direct invite for Putin to drag it out.
He changed it to "As long as we can", when congress didn't pass the foreign aid. These guys are snakes,pay attention. Usa can end war in a day if it wanted.but they want to kill atleeast 1 million Russians so they will sacrifice 1 million innocent Ukrainians for it🙃
Agreed far too much wiggle room , it's been received as an open ended invite .
And longer term profits to the armament industry. Imagine it had all been over by now?
NATO is dragging it out, not Putin.
@@jeremyfielding2333 shaking down the taxpayers. Why end it while the going is this good?
Utter pure pro war propaganda. Listener caution advised.
Ok, RusBot
Starts off on shaky grounds, with the words "full scale invasion". 🙄
It's the largest ground invasion in Europe since the Second World War.
The worst thing is when a person loses reality
Yes, Putin has lost reality!
Reality check nato
Pootin is delusional
Putin is entirely lucid. He gambled that The West would dither. He was right. We are dithering. He is certainly not losing. Not yet and possibly not ever.
@@sammenter1Putin is not delusional. He is very clever.
It is good to listen to people with clear minds
I agree. These 4 are just not such people.
theyir clear minds are pointed to destroy culture of Russia, i.e culturicide, quite ironic that they are complaining about supposed genocide.
I prefer my discourse with slightly more reality. To each his own. 😊
Please look elsewhere then lol
It seems to me that many conflicts of the last 75 years could have been avoided if the design of the UN was such that it was not completely controlled by the victors of WW2. Perhaps it is time for a third iteration of global policing that is more inclusive of every country on earth. A strong UN without a Russian veto power (or US veto) could perhaps have handled this kind of situation. My heart goes out to Ukrainians upon whom this genocide has been inflicted. I do have some measure of sympathy for the Russian families that will never see their loved ones again because of this horrible waste of life and material.
UN is a useless thing 😢
All lies F A K E news search Colonel Douglas McGregor who was in Desert Storm to get the facts of how Victoria Newland of USA staged the coup to install Zelensky and started the war in Ukraine
Ukraine has lost. Negotiate. Please stop the fighting. Work towards winning the Peace.
The Idea of holding Russia accountable, is like telling WW2 Germany we wouldn’t settle except for unconditional surrender. Some of us in America see Russia as pushing back just to protect its own borders.
Well done conversation. Time to wake up and understand that russia needs to be stopped!
There's not even a slim chance that Russia will lose.
This was an important conversation, and I hope people share this.
Well, Zelinski shouldnt have provoked Russia, and all of this would have been avoided.
NATO: comes to Russian borders.
Russia: please go back to 1991 borders. We are worried about our security.
*war starts*
Russia: Now let's talk about EU-Russia security
NATO: WTF? Russia is gonna start WWIII !!!
keep moving east to the frontline guys. backseat warmongering is so unbecoming.
This proxy war was unnecessary and avoidable if Ukraine was allowed to see through the peace negotiation.
This war would have been avoidable if Putin hadn't invaded. End of…
It's hilarious to see how the anglo-american warmongers keep spreading fancy stories about "Russia must lose".
They'd better keep in mind how the touristic adventures from Napoleon (1812) and Hitler (1945) in that direction ended...
Unfortunately victory seems unlikely whilst Adolf Putler remains in power. Putler is no longer fighting for Russia's survival, never was actually, he's made it personal and now his top priority would be his own political survival at best.
People talk about winning the war, however i reiterate that it can't be won whilst Putler remains in power, for obvious reasons alluded to.
People talk about winning, however have yet to clearly define what victory is and how it looks.
They also need logistical support to legitimate opposition groups within the invading country, promoting a political transition.
Talking to yourself. This is the level of discourse 😂😂😂
I think everyone can read between the lines and gets the message.
I hope peace can be reached without need for more war and loss of life. And that longterm understanding and good relationships be restired
Why aren’t university campuses chanting “free Ukraine, stop genocide”?!
It's so reassuring the media is able to regurgitate what the government tells them too.
It’s almost as if they are all one and the same.
insightful, thought provoking, well done!
The Telegraph is amusingly clueless.
Keep on generalizing, underbot.
@@toughr1506 cope nafo incel
I am Swiss and I beliebe in Democracy. Direct Democracy if possible. But I also believe that we should all try to think the thoughts that the people in this group are discussing. Democracy needs weapons to stop Putins march west.
Grützi
So where are the public elections for EU leaders?
@@harryflashman4542 the EU will never forgive Russia for the collapse of their Communist System.
It all started when US carried out a coup d'etat with the help of Victoria Nuland and Geoffrey Pyatt in Kiev at Maidan. Crimea voted literally en masse to rejoin Russia when they saw which way the wind was blowing in Kiev against Russian speakers. Donetsk and Luhansk wanted to remain autonomous but stay in Ukraine but Poroshenko disagreed so Ukrainians attacked Donbass cities. Along came the Minsk agreement which Ukraine was supposed to implement but failed to do so, Germany and France were supposed to guarantee implementatyion of Misnsk agreement but failed to do so. Ukraine was preparing an offensive to subjugate the Donbass but Russia got in before them and spoilt the US/NATO game.
Please, don't waste the keystrokes and spare us your fictional drivel.
@@VonfleetYou'll trip over the truth of it one day
A great presentation that I have had the privelege to listen to for a long time. It is great to see the faces behind this broadcast. The West must lift its game and provide Ukraine with all the assistance it needs. This war must not be allowed to drag on!
Ukraine has already lost.....Western.leftism always loses.
It's amazing the way we in the West discuss among ourselves why we are morally right and what should happen. But what if Russia with its backing from BRICS and the global south is just to strong for Ukraine and NATO? Why not talk to the Russians?
That's quite rational
Morals and the west is exactly the same as 'friendly fire' a total oxymoron.
They won't negotiate because that would need an acceptance of reality. They prefer to repeat the same redundant talking points while Ukraine is turned into a rump state.
Ukraine has no choice but talk to Russia. The west and Zelensky won’t allow it.
Brilliant discussion. Fantastic.
Wow, Goebbels would be proud! Pure propaganda.
Is it accurate to say that an invasion or profound defeat is required to spark change? The British empire was enormously repressive against many subjects, even Churchill had opinions which would be frowned upon today. At the time of WW2 the US heavily discriminated, through behaviour but also through lawm against its coloured population. Neither the US nor Britain lost WW2, leaders (civil or military) were not held responsible for atrocities carried out during the war (fire bombing Tokyo, area bombing in Germany, ...) and yet both countries grew to be societies wich promote justice, freedom, sovereignty and rule of law over the decades following the end of WW2.
Russia can reform too, though that it will happen is not a given - but the west can make plans to support Russia in making the right choice at each crossroad it comes to.
The British Empire was enormously _generous_ to its colonies.
The project of the British Empire, from the mid-19th century to the 1960s was to raise the backward and savage nations up to the level of modernity. It was an absurdly ambitious project, but it turned out pretty successful in the end: By the 1960s, places that had been pure jungle with no roads, no writing, no technology more advanced than mud huts, spears, and clay pots, had cities with electricity, running water from taps, schools, colleges, hospitals, railways, macadamised roads, telephones, factories producing goods for export, etc., etc.
This was not an accident. It was a deliberate plan, debated in Parliament over several years in the 1850s/60s.
In 2014, Ukraine experienced an undemocratic takeover that led to civil war because the eastern part of Ukraine did not agree with it. And the usurpers sent an army against them, which provoked the separation of Crimea and other territories (Donbass). Your discussion is pure Western propaganda.
The telegraph, perhaps the biggest joke in propaganda.
The Telegraph team don't want to see negotiations with Russia. With hundreds of thousands dead & wounded, the economy in ruins & the obvious reluctance of Ukrainians to join the fight & be mobilised, it would be interesting to hear the opinion of the Ukrainian population....although, of course, there will be no elections to allow that.
The Torygraph is propaganda for the US/British military industrial complex. Nothing more.
These snooty twits earn a living doing what is arguably one of the sleaziest and most evil "work" known to humanity: selling war.
Having helped to destroy Ukraine, they now risk demolishing civilisation as a whole with their spiteful insistence on needlessly provoking Russia.
What about opinion of Russians who didn't want this war? This is your favorite Putler's choices.
@@thamor4746 I have seen opinions of Russians that disagree with the war, and respect their point of view. What I don't see is a platform given to Ukrainians that disagree with their government's adamant decision not to begin negotiations. Perhaps the Telegraph team will use their podcast to give them a voice ?
@@thamor4746 They a shill that rendered their own opinion moot because they very likely not Ukrainian and are just trying hit appeasement talking points because they think it's cool to be a wet noodle contrarian
@@thamor4746 they are free to vote for Davankov or flee the coutnry, a luxury that Ukrainians are restricted by their fascistic dictatorship.
Oustanding! молодці всі!
🤡🤡🐷🐷
One hour after releasing the video the trolls are already out in full force. Go watch a rerun of Tucker's so called interview.
This will just increase as this war is fought on comment sections to influence people. Some sadly might be naive enough to fall for it.
Engaging a war without ammos, weapons, satellites, intelligence, money, military industry, men... It sounds kinda stupid to me.
“There’s no international court that can prosecute Putin.”
We obviously have to go get him.
Who went and got Bush and Blair for their illegal wars in west Asia?
Enough of your western imperial nonsense. 😂
After Bush and Obama.
OK AFTER LISTENING TO THE INTERVIERER FOR 2 years. i did not think he would look like this and more importantly SHE IS HOT AF 🔥🔥🚒🚒🚒
thes ppl make a linvign on this war.. playing with ppls emotions
Double thumbs up - excellent analysis piece. Will share
Telegraph propagandists
A fascinating conversation. Oleksandra's point about not waiting for the end of the war to start having the criminals accountable for the crimes that have been perpertated is really something the the Western leaders should start thinking more about.