I’ve been taking the feed to the switch for years. In my opinion it should now be standard. Makes life much easier when fault finding, especially with the amount of downlights people now have fitted in their homes. Also with smart switching the way it’s going, it’s only a matter of time until the regs are going to require a neutral at the switch. I don’t think it will be as quick as others think it will, but it’s definitely coming. Also I sit in the camp of using 2273 connectors instead of 221’s, only because when pushing front plates back I’ve had cables come out of the 221’s if the levers lift up with a lot of cables in the back box. Great video as always though Gaz. I wish more electricians would watch these videos as part of their CPD.
I can't tell you how often I needed to have a neutral behind a light switch but didn't have one. You need it for PIR motion sensors, Smart switches, timer switches and more. I think the days of the loop in ceiling rose wiring, are numbered. It was a clever system in the UK, but it doesn't make so much sense any more. People want fancy light fixtures not just a pendant. And we are desperate for that neutral behind the light switch 😉👍.
Bringing the feed to the switch is a good way forward, I found it very useful when installing smart wall switches which require a neutral in order to power its internal electronics
I'm very grateful that these videos exist. Everything is explained so clearly and it makes ideas that are a bit confusing in a textbook, really obvious how it works in practice.
@@MrIbib Not sure where I would start and if I could commit to college times My 13 month old has special needs How much time do you need to become fully qualified ?
@@deepmystic5850 I’ve got three kids and another on the way. Took me three years all in. Do evening classes then a NVQ afterwards, you could probably expect to start on £25k and be on £30k plus in a few years.
The only minors I see with these switches. Are the they limit you to the range and like Gaz mentioned the lack of termination for interim switches. Really appreciate these reviews cheers Gaz and all those who help makes these videos possible. Grear stiff peeps 👍.
I remember using these switches in 2013, Nothing new in taking the feed to the switch,I started off rewiring houses in 1982 stripping out the old rubber cable and they took the feed to the switch but the neutral cable was twisted together and a porcelain type thimble with a screw thread on the inside to join the cables together behind the old wooden dolly switches, Those were the days :)
Thanks for this Mr H. I think within 3 to 5 years most switches and sockets with be colour coded wago styles terminals including neutral in the switch as home automation leaps forward at a pace.
Then the same issue would follow for those other switch terminations that aren't using Wagos. Just ensure the LOOP is similarly properly terminated. Insert prepared conductors, tighten screw then pull cables firmly to check.
Have always avoided taking the neutral to the switch, apart from supplying outside lights, but it is the case these days that it’s becoming essential and adding thee extra loop terminal in the switch is a great idea.
Starting out on my own I have always found it easier taking the neutral and the feed to the switch. Great to see I can buy a switch in which I can put in the neutral. Another great video thank you
In the USA all switches now (2020 regs) require neutral to each switch. Its in the box only, not to switch itself. Neutrals would have to be supplied downstream as well each switch in the circuit. This is to be able to support electronic type switches that require neutral. 👍
Thank you so much for this great video, I have never ever come across this situation and never thought about it. Also, I like the way you tested the continuity from within the intermediate switch Thank you so much
I would prefer to use the wago as it’s a maintenance free connection as a opposed to a screw terminal . I guess some will use that loop terminal for the switch wire when they introduce an intermediate to a two way. So I guess it would be best to call it a loop terminal as it could then be used for live or negative loop through connections .
Nice explanation there makes perfect sense. One thing I would like to see is how this compares to a traditional radial lighting circuit that uses ceiling roses. This looks like it’s feeding a single light so what do you do for additional lights in the circuit? Or do you run a single cable to each light via a panel. As others have stated the US has done it this way for a while it means that most of the smart home kit runs directly from live and neutral it means that this is going to be more flexible as new kit is released.
with the trend in garden rooms i would be interested in see a video on supplying said building and testing it, particularly ze and zs. Not many learning vids on this on this platform.
It's required in the US to bring neutral into switch boxes now, so it makes sense that manufacturers are finally providing parking terminals for them on "dumb" devices.
That will confuse the amateurs. As you got a lot of cables in the switch I normally route the earth wires round the edge not the middle in a shallow switch box.
I agree with you that loop is not the best choice of wording on a light switch, but I’ve always thought Common, L1, L2 etc. are also not ideal for similar reasons!
If this switch had wago-style terminations it might be a good idea. As it is, it is not labour-saving with more faff required to double- back the neutrals.
Hi Gary would do video on r1 +r2 on a dimmer switch at the pendant ,no one seems to have anything on this ,they always focus on the IR test ,and the fact you do not get continuity through the switch Kind regards Frank
Just a feed through dedicated connection…, have you covered the SUREWIRE system on your Vlogs at anytime! I found it to be very uncomplicated and simple system for your lighting systems, only downside I can see is the extra amount of cabling used but that is off-set against how quickly it can be installed and connected!
Feed to switches excellent... should be standard. Don't like the 'loop' terminal physically included in the switched block as I think that could be very misleading for those not familiar with the approach/brand. Loop? Who came up with that ridiculous name?! Why not N for Neutral?
Note - In Asia I see a lot of 2 way (US 3 way) switches with Com, L0, L1, L2 markings. From this video I suspect L0 actually means "Loop" and would be better served if they marked it "N" or at least "Lo" or Loop. L0 is just confusing. L0L! Thanks for the heads up on Loop, it has clarified this weird marking for me.
In norway we just put neutral conductors in for light switches in a WAGO and only use the L in and L out in the switch. Earthing also just goes in wago
Quickwire QFKZ-01. Other manufacturers sell rebadged, such as CK T1260, Ideal 45-235 and Jokari FKZ. They're good and will strip not just basic insulation but also the cable sheath on twin and earth up to 2.5. Problem is the blades get worn down and they stop working well. The blades are replaceable, but nobody seems to sell them.
The hager sollysta intermediate switch only has the l1/l2 x2 no loop connection either also the loop terminal on hager is marked N and loop. I still prefer neutrals in wagos only lives and sw lives on the face plates for me
can anyone help me ive got a pir sensor red blue brown wires/ got lights in garden and the cable goes in to office on a switch and then comes out side to pir brown /blue/ black /earth which way to you wire it please
I do 2 plate or 3 plate dependant upon the job where I do 2 plate on commercial jobs I always wire in 3 core upto the fitting to keep the permanent live in case emergency etc.
Very poor design! The possibilities for mistakes, expensive ones too, are numerous. FAR too easy to grab an intermediate thinking it has n/c terminal for neutral and end up connecting L to neutral! The extra terminal should be in BOTH switches, physically offset in some way and CLEARLY identified with blue colour to avoid ANY chance of confusion or ambiguity! 🤔😲🙄
My jaw kinda had to be put back up manually once you said.. this says loop, which wouldn't be the correct term. Huh? It's all I've ever seen. Ground/earth, neutral, live and loop.. what other wording were you expecting? And L1 and L2 are activated via (on / off) switch option. All as expected.
I’ve been taking the feed to the switch for years. In my opinion it should now be standard. Makes life much easier when fault finding, especially with the amount of downlights people now have fitted in their homes. Also with smart switching the way it’s going, it’s only a matter of time until the regs are going to require a neutral at the switch. I don’t think it will be as quick as others think it will, but it’s definitely coming. Also I sit in the camp of using 2273 connectors instead of 221’s, only because when pushing front plates back I’ve had cables come out of the 221’s if the levers lift up with a lot of cables in the back box. Great video as always though Gaz. I wish more electricians would watch these videos as part of their CPD.
Thanks for the detailed comment Jacob 👍🏻
you should cable tıe them for extra security.
I can't tell you how often I needed to have a neutral behind a light switch but didn't have one. You need it for PIR motion sensors, Smart switches, timer switches and more. I think the days of the loop in ceiling rose wiring, are numbered. It was a clever system in the UK, but it doesn't make so much sense any more. People want fancy light fixtures not just a pendant. And we are desperate for that neutral behind the light switch 😉👍.
Been doing this in Australia for ever , no bloody mess at the light
Bringing the feed to the switch is a good way forward, I found it very useful when installing smart wall switches which require a neutral in order to power its internal electronics
Great point 👍🏻
Gary. A video on smart switches would be great with a neutral feed and without. Cheers
I'm very grateful that these videos exist. Everything is explained so clearly and it makes ideas that are a bit confusing in a textbook, really obvious how it works in practice.
So glad i got out of housebashing years ago, leaving folk getting excited about this stuff behind!
At 35 years old
I wish I had studied to be a sparky
My interest in electrics is far beyond DIY hobbyist
Love these videos mate
Thanks
Thanks 👍🏻 it’s never too late
I qualified when I was 42.
@@MrIbib Not sure where I would start and if I could commit to college times
My 13 month old has special needs
How much time do you need to become fully qualified ?
@@deepmystic5850 go for it dude, your still a baby, I'm doing same 40 and young family. It's hard but will be worth it in the end.
@@deepmystic5850 I’ve got three kids and another on the way. Took me three years all in.
Do evening classes then a NVQ afterwards, you could probably expect to start on £25k and be on £30k plus in a few years.
The only minors I see with these switches. Are the they limit you to the range and like Gaz mentioned the lack of termination for interim switches. Really appreciate these reviews cheers Gaz and all those who help makes these videos possible. Grear stiff peeps 👍.
I remember using these switches in 2013, Nothing new in taking the feed to the switch,I started off rewiring houses in 1982 stripping out the old rubber cable and they took the feed to the switch but the neutral cable was twisted together and a porcelain type thimble with a screw thread on the inside to join the cables together behind the old wooden dolly switches, Those were the days :)
Thanks for this Mr H. I think within 3 to 5 years most switches and sockets with be colour coded wago styles terminals including neutral in the switch as home automation leaps forward at a pace.
😃👍🏻 let’s hope so
Thank you for this, watched some other 2 way switch tutorials and they only had three terminals, was getting very confused! LOL
It's a good idea but feel the Wago is a much better connection which is unlikely to be loose or left loose.
Thanks for commenting 👍🏻
Then the same issue would follow for those other switch terminations that aren't using Wagos. Just ensure the LOOP is similarly properly terminated. Insert prepared conductors, tighten screw then pull cables firmly to check.
Thanks Gary, excellent video
Thanks for the support 👍🏻
Have always avoided taking the neutral to the switch, apart from supplying outside lights, but it is the case these days that it’s becoming essential and adding thee extra loop terminal in the switch is a great idea.
Thanks for commenting and watching 👍🏻
I installed a couple of Schneider lisse switches and was pleasantly surprised by a loop terminal, saves space in the backbox.
i'm not a sparky, but i had replaced a line switch incorrectly, a few videos and the problem was fixed, thanks
Starting out on my own I have always found it easier taking the neutral and the feed to the switch. Great to see I can buy a switch in which I can put in the neutral. Another great video thank you
In the USA all switches now (2020 regs) require neutral to each switch. Its in the box only, not to switch itself. Neutrals would have to be supplied downstream as well each switch in the circuit. This is to be able to support electronic type switches that require neutral. 👍
Massive thanks for commenting. Gaz 👍🏻
Thank you so much for this great video, I have never ever come across this situation and never thought about it. Also, I like the way you tested the continuity from within the intermediate switch
Thank you so much
I would prefer to use the wago as it’s a maintenance free connection as a opposed to a screw terminal . I guess some will use that loop terminal for the switch wire when they introduce an intermediate to a two way. So I guess it would be best to call it a loop terminal as it could then be used for live or negative loop through connections .
Nice explanation there makes perfect sense. One thing I would like to see is how this compares to a traditional radial lighting circuit that uses ceiling roses. This looks like it’s feeding a single light so what do you do for additional lights in the circuit? Or do you run a single cable to each light via a panel.
As others have stated the US has done it this way for a while it means that most of the smart home kit runs directly from live and neutral it means that this is going to be more flexible as new kit is released.
Thanks for the comment David 👍🏻
I would imagine you would have three cables in perminant live. One from previous swithch, one to the next switch and one to the intermideiate switch.
with the trend in garden rooms i would be interested in see a video on supplying said building and testing it, particularly ze and zs. Not many learning vids on this on this platform.
It's required in the US to bring neutral into switch boxes now, so it makes sense that manufacturers are finally providing parking terminals for them on "dumb" devices.
Great update. Thanks 👍🏻
👍 good tutorial thanks.
To me it could have been mistaken for Intermediate switch. But on the other hand makes perfect sense to use instead of connection block.
I have used take the power to the switch using a 20 amp isolator for outside lighting also with a nice neon.
That will confuse the amateurs. As you got a lot of cables in the switch I normally route the earth wires round the edge not the middle in a shallow switch box.
Aussie Clipsal and HPM Switch Mechanisms have had a ‘loop’ terminal for at least 50 years that I know of.
with it being labelled loop you could use it as a terminal to take permanent live elsewhere
What a simple idea - could have done with this 40 years ago!!
Yep 👍🏻
I agree with you that loop is not the best choice of wording on a light switch, but I’ve always thought Common, L1, L2 etc. are also not ideal for similar reasons!
Well written. Ring circuit is another interesting terminology.
Should taking the feed to the switch be part of the regs Now?
I would love it to be taught in colleges but it’s all down to time unfortunately
If this switch had wago-style terminations it might be a good idea. As it is, it is not labour-saving with more faff required to double- back the neutrals.
Nice video, keep it up, thanks :)
Thanks for the positive comment 👍🏻
Hi Gary would do video on r1 +r2 on a dimmer switch at the pendant ,no one seems to have anything on this ,they always focus on the IR test ,and the fact you do not get continuity through the switch Kind regards Frank
Neutral will be used for future electronic device(s)?
Sure will 👍🏻
Just a feed through dedicated connection…, have you covered the SUREWIRE system on your Vlogs at anytime! I found it to be very uncomplicated and simple system for your lighting systems, only downside I can see is the extra amount of cabling used but that is off-set against how quickly it can be installed and connected!
Feed to switches excellent... should be standard. Don't like the 'loop' terminal physically included in the switched block as I think that could be very misleading for those not familiar with the approach/brand. Loop? Who came up with that ridiculous name?! Why not N for Neutral?
Totally agree 👍🏻
I prefer using a Wago 227 as you can get more connections in and it’s easier to put the accessories back with the neutrals out the way:
Good point 👍
2273, can handle 0.5 to 2.5mm². Use them a lot here because they're really compact.
Those 221 connectors are meant to be in an enclosure to stop them opening,
Should use 2273 in the back of a box.
A box is an enclosure? 2273 or 2773 would be preferable however.
Only if they are to be used as a “maintenance free” connection in an inaccessible junction. Behind a switch is not that.
Note - In Asia I see a lot of 2 way (US 3 way) switches with Com, L0, L1, L2 markings. From this video I suspect L0 actually means "Loop" and would be better served if they marked it "N" or at least "Lo" or Loop. L0 is just confusing. L0L! Thanks for the heads up on Loop, it has clarified this weird marking for me.
A connector is the best way out
that is a switch to switch lights from three different positions called an intermidiate switch connected between 2 two way switches
on the schneider products we use in sweden there's always an "X" terminal
Thanks for that information 👍🏻
In norway we just put neutral conductors in for light switches in a WAGO and only use the L in and L out in the switch. Earthing also just goes in wago
@@tommymack3210 the ”X” terminal is basically a built in WAGO
Do you recommend those stripers you are using? Do you have a link? Cheers. Clear presentation :-)
Quickwire QFKZ-01. Other manufacturers sell rebadged, such as CK T1260, Ideal 45-235 and Jokari FKZ. They're good and will strip not just basic insulation but also the cable sheath on twin and earth up to 2.5. Problem is the blades get worn down and they stop working well. The blades are replaceable, but nobody seems to sell them.
The hager sollysta intermediate switch only has the l1/l2 x2 no loop connection either also the loop terminal on hager is marked N and loop. I still prefer neutrals in wagos only lives and sw lives on the face plates for me
Hello can I ask why you still bend over the cable when your putting 2 cables together cheers Tony
I always have if the terminal can fit 2 or 3 doubled over conductors then I do 👍🏻
can anyone help me ive got a pir sensor red blue brown wires/ got lights in garden and the cable goes in to office on a switch and then comes out side to pir brown /blue/ black /earth which way to you wire it please
Not easy to get a live from a switch if you ever wanted to fit a outside light
I do 2 plate or 3 plate dependant upon the job where I do 2 plate on commercial jobs I always wire in 3 core upto the fitting to keep the permanent live in case emergency etc.
I prefer wago ✌️
Not bad idea until you have feed in-feed out-light load-fan load-and possibly shaver point?But yeah in principle ok?
Now take the switch to bits let us see the loop mounting in side going no were.
Blue conductors terminated in the back of a switch I would inatialty think it was two switched lives without brown sleeving.
Comes down to cost if its £3.00 and the basic 2 way is £1.00 you know which way the developers will want to go.
Very poor design! The possibilities for mistakes, expensive ones too, are numerous. FAR too easy to grab an intermediate thinking it has n/c terminal for neutral and end up connecting L to neutral! The extra terminal should be in BOTH switches, physically offset in some way and CLEARLY identified with blue colour to avoid ANY chance of confusion or ambiguity! 🤔😲🙄
Don't see the point what's wrong with keeping the Wago connecter In.
Thanks for commenting and watching. Gaz 👍🏻
My jaw kinda had to be put back up manually once you said.. this says loop, which wouldn't be the correct term. Huh? It's all I've ever seen. Ground/earth, neutral, live and loop.. what other wording were you expecting? And L1 and L2 are activated via (on / off) switch option. All as expected.
Aren't those brown and blue cables weird ! They should go back to red and black now we've left the EU.
That looks a nice stripper. Cable/ wire that is of course.
Ppò