I have done all my feeds through light switches for a very long time now and also, where possible, used oval conduit for the switch drops so another cable can be added later. Adding a permanent line to roses as well makes a lot of sense and gives even more flexibility for future alterations. Great Video, Gary.
Love to see this! I've been doing this for a while now, it makes the installation so much neater & if the customer ever wants home automation in the future then we've got them covered!
I think this is genius yet simple, I have always been against 2 plate method because its such a pain to get a permanent live for a new accessory, but this either way you do it is a great idea..
06:33, having a 'permanent feed' is essentially what is done for commercial applications requiring emergency lighting. Including multiple occupier residential homes, hotels, student halls of residence and such like where there would be non-maintained emergency lighting (maintained typically within actual dwellings). The commercial aspect to this may be worth covering at some point. You have PIR (passive infrared) activated lights within toilets, office spaces, commmunal corridors to save energy. Luminares within those areas that would have permanent feeds supplying non-maintained luminaires. Within office spaces and such like, it's not unusual to have them supplied by LCMs (lighting controller modules) which can be controlled via remote software.
Wow, finaly all normal timing switches from EU can be installed and not those pneumatic rubbish. What a relief, I had to rip all the cables to make it work previously.
Great idea. I'll watch out for opportunities to do this in future. I'm often baffled why the cable manufacturers don't give us a blue core in the 3core+CPC cable. I don't remember any time I've ever used a 3core+CPC as a three phase cable. Any feedback on this is welcome. Thanks for the video.
Before they harmonised the wire colours way back in March 2004, 3 core and earth' cable used in two way lighting was blue, yellow and red with a bare copper earth, if I wasn't doing 2 way switching, then quite often I us 3 core cable & use blue wire as a netural for future use.Nowadays I tend to use Quinetic wireless switches, no drops to chase, only back boxes,if not surface mounting, 1 receiver can be controlled by up to 10 switches,so 2,3,4 way or more, is so easy now & quicker to install,less mess, so I think offsets the cost of the switches,etc.
Good idea Gaz, ive been adding 3 cores for a different reason, usualy when adding downlights, as i have had a few calls a few weeks later.. "is it possible to add a 2 gang switch and have certain zones lit .. saved me a ton of headaches.. esp as the plastering has already been done .. i'm going to adopt your idea too .. pennies on the cable but saves a ton of work after the fact
Hi Gary, I wasn'r aware that there was an idustry standard for which colour of conductor was used as newtral. I always ues the black as common and the grey as live as well as the brown . All are usually sleved as live conductors. Why would the industry try to move away from useing the black as newtral? I'm 65 now and was brought up during my training with the old red and black cable, so it is easier for me to use the black as newtral. This is how I remember it. Why can't the industry have a standard for this? or at least use the colours of brown, blue and grey and call the blue as newtral. Nice video, Keep up the good work, Regards, Bill.
Brilliant demonstration and clear explanation, I get the idea behind it, but I don’t think it is a good idea, why we’ll a lot of sparks don’t like Ring mains and don’t stall them some say because we don’t need them and some say it’s a waste of cable ? It seems to me that This type lighting circuit is doing the self same thing only in favour of smart technology, So we stop installing Ring to save on cost and reduce the amount of cable used then Loose that saving by using more cables on lighting circuits, The same as CUs we used to install metal CUs then changed to plastic and now we have to install metal CUs , the industry is going backwards. It’s only technology that’s moving forward’s . The world has gone mad positively gaga I tell you. But what do I know ? I’am just a humble electrician who’s opinion means nothing 😂 Fantastic video as always Gaz 👍👍👍👍❤️
@@stevendouglas3860 only in the circumstances in the video. You don't need more than 2-core+cpc until you want to switch something and either provide neutrals at the switch, or a permanent live in an accessible place for possible *future* expansion.
the earth isn't needed from the switch to the light if using that plastic light switch box, if you get a smart switch and a 2core and earth is in the wall, use the earth as neutral , move it in the looping plate also (at the light end) , simple solution. i dont think theyll tell you to do that in collage but think about it its a good way around the smart switch needing a N connection
Can you explain the 2 plate method when the neutral is in the ceiling rose and not at the switch (run in pvc singles), I see this mainly in council houses.
Err, no. It's still radial. The point of a ring is there's no end point because you go from the last fitting/plate back to the CU. What's being suggested here is nothing like that.
@@Pegaroo_ the current is limited by the cpd at the cu, and the cable is rated accordingly. If your radial lighting circuit is likely to draw something near 6A (well over 1kw) you shouldn't extend it but install a new one for the new area.
Why? Why would we use an expensive resource like copper when we have switches that like Quinetic and use another piece of copper when they aren’t required in the first instance. Nobody future proofs when technology is moving fast. Economic efficiency will mean switch wires go the way of the dodo. Even Ethernet cables and PoE could provide a solution. Just think of the savings and decorations from not using switch wires. They even do smart switches that don’t require a neutral. Everything is becoming more modular and easier to install too. Lower power, less resources are the future. People in the industry need to be aware and BMS system will become more prevalent in houses as products get cheaper and more reliable.
Every sparks worth his salt knows that the best place to find a permanent line is in the floorboards or roof space ,in running in a 3 core from the light to the switch is ridiculous because you are just adding connections to the circuits,in my long 50 year career as an Industrial sparks it was frowned apon to have connector blocks inside switches,so what is the point of this new system,answer nothing but adding loose connectors to your circuit and making switch boxes having to be deeper to take these connectors,if you believe in this system compared to the 3 plate system then you astound me
I have done all my feeds through light switches for a very long time now and also, where possible, used oval conduit for the switch drops so another cable can be added later. Adding a permanent line to roses as well makes a lot of sense and gives even more flexibility for future alterations. Great Video, Gary.
Thanks for the great comment and watching. Gaz 👍🏻
Love to see this! I've been doing this for a while now, it makes the installation so much neater & if the customer ever wants home automation in the future then we've got them covered!
I think this is genius yet simple, I have always been against 2 plate method because its such a pain to get a permanent live for a new accessory, but this either way you do it is a great idea..
Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment 👍🏻 Gaz
Love it.
Such a simple solution, it should be standard in any rewire.
Thanks for taking the time to comment 👍🏻
06:33, having a 'permanent feed' is essentially what is done for commercial applications requiring emergency lighting. Including multiple occupier residential homes, hotels, student halls of residence and such like where there would be non-maintained emergency lighting (maintained typically within actual dwellings).
The commercial aspect to this may be worth covering at some point. You have PIR (passive infrared) activated lights within toilets, office spaces, commmunal corridors to save energy. Luminares within those areas that would have permanent feeds supplying non-maintained luminaires.
Within office spaces and such like, it's not unusual to have them supplied by LCMs (lighting controller modules) which can be controlled via remote software.
Wow, finaly all normal timing switches from EU can be installed and not those pneumatic rubbish. What a relief, I had to rip all the cables to make it work previously.
Thank you for the Sunday morning revision 👍
Thanks for watching 👍🏻
Great idea. I'll watch out for opportunities to do this in future.
I'm often baffled why the cable manufacturers don't give us a blue core in the 3core+CPC cable. I don't remember any time I've ever used a 3core+CPC as a three phase cable.
Any feedback on this is welcome.
Thanks for the video.
Before they harmonised the wire colours way back in March 2004, 3 core and earth' cable used in two way lighting was blue, yellow and red with a bare copper earth, if I wasn't doing 2 way switching, then quite often I us 3 core cable & use blue wire as a netural for future use.Nowadays I tend to use Quinetic wireless switches, no drops to chase, only back boxes,if not surface mounting, 1 receiver can be controlled by up to 10 switches,so 2,3,4 way or more, is so easy now & quicker to install,less mess, so I think offsets the cost of the switches,etc.
Good idea Gaz, ive been adding 3 cores for a different reason, usualy when adding downlights, as i have had a few calls a few weeks later.. "is it possible to add a 2 gang switch and have certain zones lit .. saved me a ton of headaches.. esp as the plastering has already been done .. i'm going to adopt your idea too .. pennies on the cable but saves a ton of work after the fact
Thanks for commenting and watching 👍🏻
Yours videos makes easy to understand consept Good job 👍
Thanks
I like to put tails into the rose ant the fitting with a 2 hole wago on the rose end. Makes it really quick and easy to connect stuff.
These videos are brilliant
Thanks 👍🏻
Definitely the way forward, nice video
Thanks 👍🏻
Hi Gary,
I wasn'r aware that there was an idustry standard for which colour of conductor was used as newtral.
I always ues the black as common and the grey as live as well as the brown . All are usually sleved as live conductors.
Why would the industry try to move away from useing the black as newtral? I'm 65 now and was brought up during my
training with the old red and black cable, so it is easier for me to use the black as newtral. This is how I remember it.
Why can't the industry have a standard for this? or at least use the colours of brown, blue and grey and call the blue as newtral.
Nice video, Keep up the good work, Regards, Bill.
I learnt something new 👍
👍🏻
Great video and a very good idea. Can you show how to add a 2 way switch when feeding the switch? Thanks
Wiring Diagram Lighting Circuit 2 Plate Method Taking the Feed to the Switch - 2 Way Switching
th-cam.com/video/QX1B4gtqisc/w-d-xo.html
Lighting Circuit 2 Plate Method How to Wire and Connect up 2 Way Switches (Connections Explained)
th-cam.com/video/zfsP-C7DjSo/w-d-xo.html
Great idea but i dont see many people doing this. More likly to get rid of the cable to the switch completely and use a kinetic
Great video gaz
Thanks 👍🏻
Brilliant demonstration and clear explanation, I get the idea behind it, but I don’t think it is a good idea, why we’ll a lot of sparks don’t like Ring mains and don’t stall them some say because we don’t need them and some say it’s a waste of cable ? It seems to me that This type lighting circuit is doing the self same thing only in favour of smart technology,
So we stop installing Ring to save on cost and reduce the amount of cable used then
Loose that saving by using more cables on lighting circuits,
The same as CUs we used to install metal CUs then changed to plastic and now we have to install metal CUs , the industry is going backwards. It’s only technology that’s moving forward’s . The world has gone mad positively gaga I tell you.
But what do I know ? I’am just a humble electrician who’s opinion means nothing 😂
Fantastic video as always Gaz
👍👍👍👍❤️
Shut up mate.
It a good idea but in a time of trying to be Green should we be using more material than we need I think prob do it to random lights not all
Great point 👍🏻
When connecting both brown wires into common is it OK to us Wago 3 terminal with 2 connecting together and 1 wire into common
How would you take the feed to another room from this futureproof setup? Do you just connect a twin and earth that goes into cpc, neutral and live?
Also handy to have 3 core when fitting an emergency fitting .
Sure is 👍🏻
In a two way setup- for a smart switch- would you need a neutral at both switches?
Would you say Gaz ..3 core is best (for rewiring and adding lights to loft , outside lighting .
👍🏻 thanks for commenting
@@GSHElectrical is 3 the best for extending ....
@@stevendouglas3860 only in the circumstances in the video. You don't need more than 2-core+cpc until you want to switch something and either provide neutrals at the switch, or a permanent live in an accessible place for possible *future* expansion.
@@tobysherring1369 thanks 👍
It's there a clean way to extend the switching line to a 2nd light? Or just jam two blacks into a single rose connector?
Use a wago
How would this work with a 3 plate downlight in terms of wiring?
How to Future Proof Your Lighting Circuit with a Neutral at the Switch - 3 Plate Wiring Method
th-cam.com/video/1XcxdvFRyY0/w-d-xo.html
@@GSHElectrical amazing! I did see this one but its referencing a pendent as opposed to a downlight where the connections differ between the two.
the earth isn't needed from the switch to the light if using that plastic light switch box, if you get a smart switch and a 2core and earth is in the wall, use the earth as neutral , move it in the looping plate also (at the light end) , simple solution. i dont think theyll tell you to do that in collage but think about it its a good way around the smart switch needing a N connection
👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks
Meaning 3 cables in the permanent connection at the switch for the circuit
Very good but you might never use it, the three core cable is quite expensive
Thanks for commenting
It's only 15 quid a drum more expensive.
Can you explain the 2 plate method when the neutral is in the ceiling rose and not at the switch (run in pvc singles), I see this mainly in council houses.
Wiring Diagrams for Lighting and Motor Circuits
th-cam.com/play/PL2Ea5r9gxUUfm4SACOSOZigCeSxxC5xaO.html
The above playlist may help
Sounds a bit like a ring main but for lighting
Err, no. It's still radial. The point of a ring is there's no end point because you go from the last fitting/plate back to the CU. What's being suggested here is nothing like that.
@@tobysherring1369 Maybe it should be as you'll be adding more and more current the further you extend this
@@Pegaroo_ the current is limited by the cpd at the cu, and the cable is rated accordingly. If your radial lighting circuit is likely to draw something near 6A (well over 1kw) you shouldn't extend it but install a new one for the new area.
A 3 core for every switch drop is gonna get pricey.
The most expensive cable is the one you forgot to install 👍🏻
@@GSHElectrical Thats what cable schedules are for.
You would need an extra neutral to go between two way lighting to have a neutral at each switch, your 3 core strapper wouldn’t have a neutral
Why would you want a neutral in a switch drop?@@kierenparry1995
Try getting them to do it in 1.5mm2 6243Y rather than 1.0mm2 😂
🤦🏻♂️👍🏻
If you can't work this out yourself don't open your tool box become a plaster
Video is for learners at college 👍🏻
Why? Why would we use an expensive resource like copper when we have switches that like Quinetic and use another piece of copper when they aren’t required in the first instance.
Nobody future proofs when technology is moving fast.
Economic efficiency will mean switch wires go the way of the dodo. Even Ethernet cables and PoE could provide a solution.
Just think of the savings and decorations from not using switch wires. They even do smart switches that don’t require a neutral.
Everything is becoming more modular and easier to install too. Lower power, less resources are the future. People in the industry need to be aware and BMS system will become more prevalent in houses as products get cheaper and more reliable.
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts
Every sparks worth his salt knows that the best place to find a permanent line is in the floorboards or roof space ,in running in a 3 core from the light to the switch is ridiculous because you are just adding connections to the circuits,in my long 50 year career as an Industrial sparks it was frowned apon to have connector blocks inside switches,so what is the point of this new system,answer nothing but adding loose connectors to your circuit and making switch boxes having to be deeper to take these connectors,if you believe in this system compared to the 3 plate system then you astound me