Why make tents that pitch inner first?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
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#wildcamping #camping #backpacking - บันเทิง
You should do a video looking at vintage tents and how much the technology has changed ✌️
Second this 👍
That's a great idea!
Ahhh….the Vango Force 10….
@@bob_the_bomb4508I've got a F10 mk 2 that's like new, excellent quality....you wouldn't need a footprint with this style of groundsheet....it weighs 5.5 kg though....I wouldn't want to be carrying it on the Pennine way 😂
It’s gone backwards. My 25 year old Vango Spirit has all the features of a modern day expensive tent and it only cost me £200 back then. Another thing tents didn’t suffer from back then was condensation, seems to be the new materials they use today creates more condensation.
Inner pitch tents are much quieter, if it is raining they do dry pretty quickly. I would also imagine they are stronger as the fly is in contact with the whole of the poles therefore distributing the load more evenly. Being honest when I bought my tent 20yrs ago I did think about it and not sure you had any alternative back then😅
As a Canadian where inner pitch first tents are basically all there is, my mind was blown by how great the tent I bought in England was. The whole thing sets up in a few minutes and the fly first. Absolutely superior! Some water gets in but it's a lot less. I love England 🙂👍🏻
Inner or outer first? Doesn't matter. The fact is when it's pissing down tents get wet. Have a decent micro fibre towel and mop up. Some inners are also surprisingly water resistant.
My perspective is based on old military experience when you have little choice about when and where you bivvy up. No way I’d use an inner-first tent in Europe.
Experiences in the states (my only experience is the Appalachian Trail in summer back in the 1980s) is a bit different and I understand that for many Americans a tent is a bug net with an optional rain fly.
I note where people on here have said ‘how often does it happen?’ IMHO once is far too often…
At 66 and ex military for Europe I have an all in one.if I was doing multiday my inner can unclip easily if needs must for separate stowage.
Great video Paul, thanks.
How about seeing if you can get a tent manufacturer to do an interview with you so that they can confirm or deny your suppositions on tent manufacture? If it could be combined with a factory visit to see how the tents are made it would be something that I'd definitely be interested in seeing.
When it comes to multi day hikes I prefer an inner pitch first. That way I can seperate the flysheet if it is wet or covered with condensation and stow it seperate from the inner. Have found with several all in one tents that when you pack it up in morning the condensation or rain will soak the inner anyway and be wet when you pitch the next day. Also in all my hiking over the years including trips such as the Cape Wrath Trail I have only had to pitch an 'inner first' tent a couple of times in the rain and never had an issue. Note that many inners actually do actually have a waterproof coating to prevent it getting soaked before you get the flysheet on. But undersdtand why folks would like an 'all in one' and are ideal if you are only away for a single night and want a quick camp setup. Atb
I second this 👍
A lot of tents that pitch "outer first" (or at the same time) can still be separated witch allows you to store the outer separate from inner/outside of the pack and/or pitch separate. I think all Hilleberg tent allows this.
Only my inner goes in a dry bag the fly is the first in the sack rammed at the base .
Most "all in one" tents are actually outer first, it's just you can leave the inner attached for ease of use. In most cases you can detach the inner first and stow it separately just like you can with an inner first tent.
All of mine are outer first, if the fly is wet then I just detach it and store in a dry bag. I also use a footprint so the built in groundsheet stays clean and dry.
Excellent video. I spent 7 months last year riding a motorcycle across Canada and Alas, camping at least 90% of the time. I had an inner pitch tent and it was virtually impossible to pitch in the rain and keep the inner tent dry. I can imagine it would be dangerous in some situations. You make some good points about the advantages about inner pitch tens in warm dry weather though. I suppose they are both good in different circumstances, but if I did my above trip again, I would go with the outer pitch tent.
I've used both inner and outer first tents over the years and I like both. For summer here in Sweden i much prefer inner first. Escaping bugs is a huge issue here and I don't want to always have to hide away under the fly. Rain can normally be well forcasted that you don't ever get caught out. Another huge plus for inner first designs is that you can really tension down the fly and re tension it once it starts to sag. This is really hard on outer first designs if not impossible. Tunnel tents you can to some extent tighten but dome style not really (you rightly mention this). Unfortunately such inner first designs are mostly out of fashion with premium tent makers so you often need to buy from companies that produce in China and the like.. unfortunate.. getting a tight pitch is absolutely key to a quiet night in high wind. Hillebergs are notoriously flappy in the wind but because they are so well made they survive and last forever regardless. I still use an old mountain hardwear Yellowstone inner first from the early 2000s. Works like a dream. The main benefit I see with outer first designs is that the poles can be directly supported by guylines in high wind whereas inner first designs can only support the fabric directly, and often many pop ups have poor guyline placement on the fly. This can cause catastrophic pole damage in high winds.
Never had a problem pitching in the rain. You just have to be quick. I have a MSR hubba hubba, love it. The other benifit (though I've yet to use this method). Is you can bring just the outer and poles and you have a lightweight cover tarp like set up that is free standing (so no need to find trees as for a tarp).
I have a Bug Agnes Fly Creek HV UL1 that lets you “fast pitch” just the footprint & fly, I did this once when it looked like the rain wasn’t going to stop and had a pole break & fly rip in the wind that night. The full tent had been through higher winds, and the reason I think the pole broke is because it wasn’t under isometric tension from both the tent body and fly. But it does save some weight and space and it’s very handy in rain, though useless in bug season.
How wet does the inner get during the pitch? Can you dry with a towel?
Tents that pitch the inner first are subject to one getting wet when pitched during the rain so it's not a good option currently for us who love camping in the rain.
It seems likely that your point with manufacturing costs is one factor. To me it also seem like tents where you pitch the outer first (or both at the same time) is the norm for tents made in the UK and Scandinavia, but inner first tents is most common in US tents. I suspect this is due to differences in weather.
I've been on both the AT and PCT and some other places in the US and at least in the late spring to mid fall the weather is astonishingly much "better" in many places in the US than what I'd expect in the mountains of Sweden, Norway and (anywhere) on Iceland. Haven't camped in the UK but seen enough videos to assume it's similar. Even on the Pacific Northwest and AT known for it's unstable and wet conditions by many thruhikers it was really stable and nice weather compared to an average summer in much of Scandinavia and the UK.
Another difference between the US and Scandinavia is wind. In the US you can get even more extreme wind in the summer than northern Europe but it's infrequent. Here at least some wind is more or less the norm - making it easier to ventilate a tent where the outer is always on.
With more stable weather the advantages of pitching the inner first far outweigh pithing the outer first - for most people most of the time. Another advantage (don't think you mentioned this) of inner first tents is when you get the outer wet and some condensation during the night. Unless is actually raining when leaving camp it's faster getting everything dry when you can just remove the fly sheet and dry it and the inner separately.
What I dont quite agree with is that a inner first tent without the fly sheet will stay cooler in the summer heat. It really depend on the design. It's true for some, but many outer first tents have large doors you can leave open in dry weather and get excellent cross ventilation and the outer fabric will actually give some extra protection against the sun while it's up.
I don't really think it's an issue TBH. As a year round cyclist on average I'll get absolutely piss wet through probably 3-4 times a year. The rest of the time, mostly mildly damp. I understand on the occasions it is absolutely sheeting it down on the hill, an inner pitch flysheet may get wet, but how often does that actually happen? I'd put a bet on it not being as often as people think 🤔
That is a really good point. I have always gone for outer pitch first but I just looked at my camping log for the last 4 years of 3 season camping. Not once was it raining when I pitched the tent.
Great video , I have a few tents ranging from bobcat 1 man tent also a large family tent , but for my wild camping I literally dislike my bobcat and I much prefer my two man cheap tent ,
I have the naturehike star river 2 and you can pitch it inner first or outer first and it's also semi freestanding, best of both worlds 😊
I would like to add that there is another difference when it comes to condensation. I camp a lot in spring and autumn when condensation is inevitable. The problem with the pitch-outer-tents is that the moisture is on the inside of the outer fly, basically stuck in-between the walls. Drying the tent is really hard, even in sunny conditions. While with the pitch-inner- tents it is really easy to get the outer fly of, and flip it inside out or hang it to dry. Furthermore, when you have to pack-up a wet tent (because there is no time to dry it completely or the conditions don't allow for it), the pitch-inner- tents allow for the easy separate storage of the wet flysheet and the dry inner. This keeps the inner dry. Whith the pitch-outer-tents you either have accept that the inner gets wet when you pack it, or you have to untoggle the inner tent (which takes a long time and you will get wet in the process because the toggles are in hard-to- reach places)
🤣😂 " Drying the tent is really hard, even in sunny conditions " 🤣😂 " (which takes a long time and you will get wet in the process because the toggles are in hard-to- reach places) " 🤣😂
What is so funny?
I agree apart from the hard to reach places. That depends on the tent. Trekking pole tent: get one clip off at the top, the whole inner tent drops to the floor, unclip the rest. I agree that it is time-consuming and a faff in spring / autumn. But that is exactly the time where on my own I don’t want to pitch an inner first as rain is abundant. Paired with wind, it just takes too long to get the outer on. I think, inner first are a great choice if you are out with two or three people. The time, the inner is exposed to rain will be very short. Not so when you are on your own.
Sure, the tent design and design of the clips plays a big role. Since Paul's video was about poled tents I referred to my experience with two Fjallraven tents and a Kaikkialla. The latter has a ring-and-toggle construction (not clips), that are really hard to undo. Especially, when you lie on your belly tyring to undo the ones in the toe end of the tunnel. With one of my trekking pole tents (inner first) I can actually stakedown the inner and fly at the same time and put the pole in afterwards. With my Lanshan (pitch outer) I have to undo 1 at the top, 3 halfway and 5 at the ground to get the inner out. In practice that proved to be to cumbersome and I almost always leave it in.
@@dragonbushcraft7612 you are right. There are compromises to be made. I almost always leave the inner inside and pitch together. In February I hiked the WHW and it rained for 5 days with very little let-up. I guarded my inner tent, sleeping bag and sleeping mat to never get wet to ensure a pleasant night, also on the next day. So, the inner was clipped out. That was extreme. Normally there is enough ventilation in the morning to pack inner and outer clipped together.
I loved my voyager in better dryer weather, but in winter when the snow and hails starts and wind it was a nightmare to put up sometimes, super solid once it was up but I got sick of getting everything damp especially on multi day trips.
So I went for a soulo for winter and bad weather but it absolutely sucks in hot weather a proper sweat box 😄
Swings and roundabouts.
Seems like the best answer, if you can afford it, is the versatility and ventilation of an inner-first tent for warmer drier months, and the quick pitch, dry inner of a heavier all in one for the cooler, wetter times.
Very good vid. I just doscovered the Ordos last week. Not much on here about it. Alpkit actually have shops too! Might be getting 1
100% agree with you . The all in one pitch is good for when your are out in the mountains etc . Maybe an inner pitch first is good for when your car is next to you in a campsite so you get a bit more luxury of a tight inner 😂. When you’re up the mountains you will be glad to get in anything that’s dry 👌
Putting the fly on top literally takes 20 seconds if you've done it a few times.
@@sweetblueberrypie Had an inner pitch tent and was up a mountain in the wind and rain , was a complete balls to get set up , nearly lost the fly with the wind and the rain soaked the inner . Got shot of that and got a wild county helm 2 . shove 2 poles in and it’s up . I know what I prefer 👍
My recently purchased Terra Nova Voyager wasn't cheap and it's not ultralight but it is pretty roomy for one person. It rarely buckets down for long so patience stops a soaking. I love how much quieter the Voyager is in the wind and the ventilation options for the summer despite being a fully fledged 4 season tent.
Great tent which has stood the test of time.
I like my vango banshee and I refuse to have a pitch inner first simply because I like in the north east and it is often raining.
I just get a lightweight nylon hike tarp up quickly and then get inside put a groundsheet down and string a mosquito net to a hike pole..and it's also all enclosed and can get a tarp up in a minute.
I have only used inner pitch first tents and do think because the fly sheet has less weak points or points that affect how waterproof it is can make a better tent for general camping, it has less risk of failures and can be re-proofed far more easily, that said I am looking at an all in one pitch next time, mainly for convenience but also because I getting older and do not want to be fighting a fly sheet on a breezy day
Simple answer...Because the UK isn't the only country in the world!!!
Why make tents that pitch inner first and sell them in the UK? literally pointless. Completely understandable if you live in a country with reasonable weather though.
thx, Paul... appreciated. Could you review the KERON 4GT by Hilleberg, too?
Another reason why I like Eurohike, but even at £159 for the Rydal 500 (bring back green!), £30 for the Tamar 2, and £60 for the Avon 3 DLX... I thought they were expensive even at those prices, now they're just ridiculous!
You question in the headline, is a question I've asked for decades.
Still, there is no good answer.
It's not just about setting the tent up in rain, its also about in dusty/sandy conditions.
There is the option of aplying an extra tarp on top of the tentpoles (that are on the outside of the tent), thereby making the tent warmer and more protective, due to the distance between the tarp and the outer tentfly.
It's a HUGE difference from just throwing a tarp on top of a tent with internal poles!
A trick to remove heat from a tent with external poles are, to roll up the fly.
Also its easily possible to add extra poles for strenght (could be in snow) to a tent with external poles.
I got extra poles and made them to fit for my two wintertents.
Have a look at the Vaude Space Seamless. Got the 1-2p version. Pitches all in one with two polesleeves and crossover pole (a bit like a rogen crossed with a niak), but the polesleeves are part of the inner tent. The outer tent is attached with velcro, so can pitch all in one, or just inner only. Also can remove the outer quickly by undoing the velcro and clips at the corners.
Inner first is an American thing. If you are camping in California in the summer you can probably leave the outer at home. Your only issues are bugs and heat. So they are the tail that wags the dog. If I was going to go camping in New Hampshire, where I live now, I'd buy an outer first tent from the UK because sleeping in a flooded tent is not on my list of interests.
I’ve used the Ordos 2 on The Cumbria Way and WHW and have had to put it up in rain. Like you said I just sponged it down inside and was fine. Although I did have a day of really heavy downpour all afternoon so I ended up getting a hut at a campsite. I Like the tent for all the reasons you said, spacious, cheap, light weight, packs small. There’s always going to be a compromise with tents. Great vid!
I only discovered this tent last week, and it is a good balance of internal space Vs footprint. Would you recommend? Any pro's/cons? I can go see it in their shop which is a very rare thing with tents!
And if you have the footprint you can pitch it outer first. I've done it several times.
will a porch fit a 60l pack and boots somehow? is this tent holding well in high winds?
Inner first are great..... throws fly over inner up mountain, looses grip and watches fly disappear out of sight! (this is what I imagine would happen to me) lol
I don't think it's true that inner pitch first tents have better ventilation. That tent has better ventilation than the Terra Nova tent, sure, but my Lanshan 2 pitches all in one and the inner is almost entirely made of mesh. It has extreme amounts of ventilation.
My first tent was an inner first Lightwave G20 ultra, which is very stable, quiet and with good ventilation, but I found it very difficult to pitch in very windy conditions, almost losing the entire inner on one occasion in Scotland. I then bought a Hilleberg, beautifully easy to erect in any conditions, but which would I rather sleep in? The Lightwave everytime.
I bought the MSR Elixir 2 and was shocked!
Most of the weight of a tent is in the fabrics and poles, so I don't buy the weight advantage. That seems more like a design and materials choice consideration rather than whether the tent pitches inner first or not.
I also don't agree with the sturdiness factor, based on the example of tent makers like Hilleberg that make all-in-one pitching tents rather than inner first. It's obviously possible to make a tent that can stand up to just about anything without being an inner first pitching tent.
I've had enough drenched camping days in Washington out in the Hoh and on Mount Rainier as well as in Canada in Manning Park that I wouldn't consider an inner first pitching tent for anything but the high alpine where I'd be using a tent with a DWR inner rather than a mesh.
Or....buy an MLD Duomid and have the best of both worlds 😉
I have an MSR Access which is an inner pitch, with the groundsheet, tho I can easily pitch the outer first.
So as far as I can tell the only advantage of an all in one pitch over an inner pitch first tent is that it will not get as wet when you are pitching in a heavy downpour !!!
You're overlooking one thing. Most people don't go camping if it's forecast to piss it down.
I got my MSR Elixir soaking wet earlier this year while pitching it in the rain it was very unpleasant!
Outer pitch or inner pitch first. Have you tried this solution? th-cam.com/video/9_k_FTWIHKo/w-d-xo.html
I would love to sleep in an inner tent in Summer but I’m in the UK so would the dew wet my nice rab down sleeping bag which cost more than my tent ?
Cheers for this paul, helped decide on inner 1st terra nova voyager 2, saggy innner on a few test tents I found quite annoying
Chucking down rain? Throw up a 3x3 tarp then pitch the tent first… then do the fly later if you need it.
When I walked the Pennine way(in the rain)my tent had to be packed away wet each morning ,so everything was soaking wet anyway.
The speed of all in one really suits backpacking where you're pitching and striking every day, but it's less of a benefit when staying in one place for a while- whereas with an inner first tent, if your inner gets wet you only have to dry it out once at the start of your stay
I don't care about the rain argument as I will always set my tarp up first. With the tarp up I can even wait with the tent until I've rested and eaten.
The tarp is one of my most important item and there's no way I'd ever camp without it.
The reason they make them is cos people camp all over the world not just in the uk
They like selling the star gazing bit hence “only put the fly sheet on if you need to “ as if you wouldn’t need to in uk ever
The one without the poles etc on the outside would be much quieter in a gale and less liable to leak eventually. And a good price!
If you live in a dry warm climate an inner tent first would be great,you wouldnt want to use the outer
Inner first are also more aero, due to the lack of perpendicular pole sleeves, and a smoother shape.
Anyone know why he had the comments turned off for so long on the older vids?
Great Video Paul, You've answered some good reasons why inner first makes a lot more sense for all conditions. If its raining I pitch under a flat tarp on bungees, In Summer I just live in the inner under the stars; also excellent for midge breaks. 👍
When I was researching gear to hike the AT in 2018, this is something that got me into hammocking over tent camping. Being able to pitch a tarp high off the wet ground and never having to go “inner first” meant even if the rain fell from night to morning I stayed dry and never saturated. Ventilation during the hot months was also never an issue. I would only hang the hammock and always got the best sleep.
Thats great as long as there are trees around. 😊 I tend to camp above the treeline.
You could always set up a tarp first then pitch the tent once you have a roof.
I'm really happy I learnt the technique for pitching my Naturehike Cloud Up 2 outer-first, giving me two options depending on the conditions :)
It's a bit annoying I need to bring the heavy Naturehike groundsheet rather than a piece of Tyvek to pitch it outer-first, but bad weather camping involves extra kit anyway so I don't mind.
I love that I can pitch just the inner too, amazing looking up at the stars and getting a nice breeze on a summer night! Absolutely agree with you there!
I’ve got the Cloud Up 1 for Bikepacking. I haven’t thought about whether I could pitch outer first. I wonder if it’s possible ? Mind you I’m in Australia and it’s easy to avoid camping when it’s damp - just go another time! And often just want an inner in shaded area to avoid blocking any breeze you can get due to the heat. But keep the mosquitoes away
Still got my older wild country duolite which is an outer first. Which is great because you can leave the inner out and use it as a tarp tent type.
Edit, which can be packed all in one. The only concerns is the plastic pole snaps, if they snap you got to repair these!
I'm still using my duolite which I've had for many years without any breakages. Being tempted by the new Panacea 2 though.
My first tent, a Terra Nova Ultra Quasar (new in 1993) is inner first pitch, it maximises the space and makes the inner very taut, the pole sleeves are all mesh, keeping the outer off the tent uniformly all the way round and very weatherproof once fully guyed out, perfect for sub-zero Scotland in December. The downside is pitching and packing up in the rain. Back in ‘93 the ‘Ultra’ title meant lightweight and was at that time 3.6kgs, though 30 years later lightweight is sub-1kg.
My tent too! Think I got it in 1993 as well. Don’t use it very often these days, but love it when I do. This video has made me want to get it out and go camping!!
This is why we need lots and lots of different tents 🤣🤣🤣 Different tents for different conditions 😜
Outer first in this part of the world.
But it never rains in the UK, right? Right?
I use Jungle Formula as a minge repellent.
Graghoppers NosiLife clothing works well too.
Comment of the month Mark 😂. Bloody phones are a nightmare but make for comedy gold.
@@PaulMessner Ooops!
When used with an appropriate footprint some inner-first tents can be pitched outer first (or even outer only), though not everyone would deem the extra weight to be worth it.
I travelled across Canada with a Vango 2 person F10 Mk2 in the 80's. It was the dog's danglies at the time. I've just dug it out to give to the kids to play in. How technology has changed... it tips 4.5kg on the scales, and I'm not sure all the pegs are there! An A-frame set up with, 19mm diameter plain aluminium poles using metal springs to hold them together - they alone weigh over a kilo. With 600mm pole sections, pack size is enormous, 600mm by around 200mm. Thinking about it now, I'm not sure how I managed to get anything else in my rucksack! We had it tough back in the day.
Thanks for the video and the insight into the conversation... I would love to design camping equipment, I'm following
Let's talk my friend :)
My Six Moon Designs Deschutes tarp can be put up and then have the mesh inner tent clipped in, I don’t use the inner tent because it’s very small. I need to buy another one and have them sewn together to make more room. If the bugs are that bad I’d probably just bring my Big Agnes Fly Creek HV UL1, it’s small inside but still bigger than the SMD inner mesh tent.
For extreme winter camping I have a TNF Mountain 25 that pitches inner first, I wouldn’t use it in rain and I doubt much snow would get through the mesh. It’s heavy at about 4kg so I’ll almost never bring it when I’m solo.
For solo winter camps in the mountains I have a Marmot Hammer that sets up from the inside. Stake the 4 corners, slide the assembled poles in the door, and put them in their pockets & studs from inside where you’re out of the weather. Attach all the Velcro pole straps, head back out to adjust the stakes, and guy out the rest of the lines if necessary (there are 7 on the tent itself and 1 on the detachable vestibule.)
Something that can really help in high winds is to run internal guylines if the tent is set up for them. Just connect the sides and/or ends together and remember not to choke yourself. They make great drying lines, too.
The hardware/weight argument doesn't stand up because there are plenty outer-first tents without it and they are as light as any inner-first. But if you are in the US or Spain or similar, inner first makes sense since sleeping without the fly is useful. Here in the UK, I'd always go fly-first and then pitch fly-only when I want to go light. You can virtually never be sure it will stay dry here but a simple tarp-style pitch cuts weight in warm weather. I'm not a fan of fly-inner combined tents because I find them a pain to pack away, especially if the fly is covered in condensation so I always separate them. Case in point was this last weekend where we only had 1 hour of heavy rain, but it arrived just as we reached our pitch. I threw my fly up and jumped inside to erect the inner at leisure. My mate put his inner up but by the time he got the fly on his frame and inner were dripping wet and mopping up was a major task. Give me fly-first every time.
Good point about ventilation.. I hadn’t thought of that.
However, I still think it’s quite bonkers that inner-first tents are used on expeditions so much.. surely whilst the rain/hail/snow is chucking down, you don’t want the tent accumulating the water while you struggle to pitch??
Weird..
I just thought the old posh mountaineering tents like the mountain quasar were inner first cos then the fly acts like an all over storm lashing type thingy? Structural rigidity all over, better in the snowy peaks. Never really considered one in UK though I'll stick with the Southern cross in blighty, but you did make a good argument for them👍🏻
Paul …..great video, in depth and brief. I changed recently from the OEX Rakoon 2 to an Olpro voyager 2 for the reason of being quicker to put up ( and also my son wants to come camping as well !!! ) I just wish I had your opinions and thoughts when I made the change. Keep them coming 🏴🥃🏴🥾🥾
If you lived in Ireland you’d definitely go all in one ! Rain is nearly always around 🤦♂️🤦♂️🇮🇪
i have a Hilleberg Rogan - this can be pitched either way (you need to buy pole cups for inner first pitching).Best of both worlds but they are not the lightest. Personally I prefer to carry the extra weight for the versatility. Another good video.
I've long shied away from inner-first pitch tents. I relented from that earlier this year and bought a Big Agnes Copper Spur UL3 so I can take one of my kids and/or my dog away with me (all have outgrown squeezing into my almost-2-person tent). It had its first outing a couple of weekends ago (video coming soon) and the time the inner is up without a fly covering it is really short. I feel like it's not really going to get that wet inside. Certainly nothing like I feared it would. I also agree with your point in you vid, that the freedom to create as much airflow as you can desire is wonderful.
Of course, the real test for me will come when I do have to pitch it in crappy weather.
Some trekking pole tents (Lanshan, not the Pro; Luxe Hexpeak) giv you the options: (1) outer first / only, (2) pitch together, (3) inner only. I have slept in the Lanshan inner only in summer. I have used the Hexpeak outer only in spring to save weight. Also, the Hexpeak porch is so big that I can change out of my wet gear without getting any water into the inner, and all at 1.4 kg (without the trekking poles). But of course there you have another big preference: trekking poles or freestanding.
Really good comparison. Some points I hadn't considered. Well done.
The alpkit although it's light it's only two season, personally i prefer to have two entrances and pitch as one,
I'd also say that if the inner on any tent can touch the outer easily it's badly designed, i'll be sticking with my mountain equipment backcountry 2 (although a bit heavy) till i find a suitable replacement that can do everything that can, ps it's just my opinion i'm sure others may disagree
I've got a Naturehike Cloudup-1 and I don't know if this is just trying to make a feature out of a cheap tent, but they advertise it as being modular. It's pretty light (~1.5kg IIRC) all in including the footprint that comes with it, so you can leave that out to save weight if you know you're camping on grass or something like that, or pitch it as just the footprint and inner or just the footprint and outer, or all 3 components.
Although it's meant to be inner first it's also reasonable easy to lay out the footprint and the poles, put the fly over them and then clip the inner on to the poles working backwards towards the door then put the poles through the grommets on the inner from the outside if the weather is bad. Scottish weather being what it is, plus midges in summer, mean I've got options for how I want to set it up depending on weather and location.
If you buy the Alpkit Ordos 2 with the footprint you can pitch it outer first.i have one and have done it. The poles go up over the footprint,chuck the outer over the top then climb in and clip the inner to the poles. Simples.
Good vid Paul you could have added the tents like Naturehike and MSR where you have an option of both.
My Mongar 15d can be pitched inner or outer first like the MSR..
I think the inner first tents are more of a favourite in warmer climes.
my inner first tent (3F UL Floating Cloud) easily pitches out fly sheet first then inner, so all this inner first is boloney
You are rigth about why manufactureres chose inner first.
For the customer it is much up to where you are going to use the tent; Can rain be expected: Outer first.
Some outer-first tent can be used whith inner only as well, to keep temperature down.
I own both type of tents, and have experienced exactly the pro’s and con’s you just describel Paul
I’d hate to think what I’ve spent on yer modern backpacks over the last 50 years, some quite expensive and fancy ones. I’m happy with the kestrel 38 and 48
Very comfortable and robust I know they are always going to work and prefer them to the lighter Talon if it was going to desperate hot I might choose
My Gregory for the extra ventilation but I just returned from west Australia and the kestrel was fine (the stages I done were thru Forrest areas so not exposed to much direct sunlight. The Track is The Bibbulman and extends from north of Perth down to Albany on the coast I haven’t done the entire track. It’s well maintained and has a strong network of volunteers but I digress, the kestrel does most the stuff I need it too.
Hey Dave.. Have you posted this to the wrong video? This is about tents. ;o)
@@jamesmills4393 ha ha yep looks like it, hope it it was at least slightly interesting, my apologies 😳
Fantastic video as always. I've got an Abisko Lite 1 that's a single pitch and an Hubba Hubba NX2 that's a inner pitch first. I find the combination of the two gives me all the versatility I need for whatever camping I'm doing.
Also, I've never had any condensation in my MSR Hubba Hubba. It's incredible. And it's a lot less flappy that the Fjallraven.
But the Fjallraven gives me more confidence in high wind.
I'll never buy a inner first tent, gear that's made under the assumption that the conditions are perfect are automatically excluded as an option.
I have had both inner and outer pitch tents [currently have inner pitch] and all the points made are spot-on, bar the manufacturing/costs at the end; don't think these make that much difference especially if you were to compare two TN 2P sil-nylon tents together.
Of the two types for UK/Northern latitudes I prefer outer pitch, as the times I have been stuck waiting for a break window in the rain I have been able to pack everything [including inner] and wait in the dry. As the weather 'breaks' I can then be out a break camp in literally 1-2 mins. Likewise, I have done this in reverse when caught out in a storm, when it subsides a little then I can get outside and pitch properly.
For warm climates an inner allows you to sleep in the inner only, but in these circumstances carrying a mozzi net serves the same purpose, and is so light as to make no difference to your pack weight.
There are one or two inner first tents that allow improved ventilation in warmer weather..... Some of the Fjallraven ones allow the vestibule fly to be folded right back and the other end opened right up too.....
Airflow in an inner pitch first is generally superior to the outer or all in one pitch for equivalent protection and strength. I’m using MSR mutha hubba, lanshan 2 and Terra nova pioneer 2 dependant on conditions. Hard to say one is better than the other, each have their place but you’ll know when you picked the wrong one for the conditions. Never a disaster but we strive for perfection dont we?
Personally I always go for outer pitch less faffing and keeps inner dry.the inners on the Terra Nova tents are alway saggy and I don't think there the best example but do agree inner pitch 1st are generally more taught.
Great topic for video, have always been asking this question meself. Thanks Paul 😊
I have both types, depends on the weather and where I'm camping, when I'm likely to pitch, but my preference in pitch inner first tents.
You are absolutely correct that the benefit to the manufacturer of inner pitch tents is the price. The tautness of the inner however depends more on the pole structure than inner vs outer first pitching. Dome and geodesic tents have taught inners irrespective of how they pitch. To get the best from an inner pitch first tent you want it to have pole sleeves on the inner, not clips. Earlier Terra Nova models such as the Quasar or Voyager are like this. This way with practice you can pitch the inner with the fly over the top and avoid most of the rain hitting the inner. Yes it's a bit like gynaecology but it gets to be easy with practice, albeit better with two people than one. In addition to cost you identify the other big benefit with inner pitch tents and that is the ability to pitch the inner alone in hot weather. I've done this in South America and enjoyed the benefit of a bug free night. In Northern Europe however, if your budget stretches to it an outer pitch or all-in-one is the most practical option. That they pitch more quickly should not be forgotten if you like to stretch your day to the limit, pitch in strong winds where there is no shelter or want to pitch your tent in the dark if you are wild camping.
As I use my tent for motorcycle camping .I usually turn up wet so outer first tent for me ,so I can throw my stuff in straight away get dry .
I have a couple of inner-first tents and both of them can be pitched with the outer attached in bad weather. It's a bit more fiddly, but no real problem.
I’ve been caught out far too many times. Only all-in-one tents for me!
Brilliant video Paul , hopefully hello fresh could do some camping meals
Nice one. The advantages of inner first , are compelling . Imo.