A lot of the appeal of Eurorack is the ability to build unique systems and use those for unique patches. I have plenty of other synths with presets. I don’t need that for Eurorack. Knob-per-function is preferable to menu diving, both in traditional synths and Eurorack. I want something that plays like an instrument, not a computer or DAW.
No, I'd love to have the time and money to play with a larger modular system. Two jobs and a band and a TH-cam channel, very little time for a modular panel...
Fun exploration of eurorack but you dont really get it... This video feels like a cooking enthusiast talking about how restaurants dont use enough apricots becaus they like cooking with apricots.
Yes, if you want screens, menus, and presets, just open your DAW. Some people want their modular to be a DAW, I will never understand that, but that's just me I guess.🙃
True. Eurorack also appeals to those that don't care about saving their work. It's 100% exploration for explorations sake, so they aren't bothered by the whole build-destroy-build concept.
@@arcticfoxstudios2018 If you are clueless on how your patches work then I guess they are gone. If you have a decent memory and pay attention while patching 99% of sounds are easy to approximate if not completely recreate. Some patches making heavy use of random generators aren't repeatable but that is the whole point of random isn't it?
@@arcticfoxstudios2018 ever heard of recording or sampling? its not 100% for explorartion's sake. Its about possibilities and finding something unique (for me at least).
Modular isn’t for you if you want to menu dive. That’s the whole point. There is nothing wrong buying a poly synth with presets and big screen. Buy just that, you have your presets then. You can get so creative with using your ears and experimenting vs menu diving on modular. Good luck on finding your sweet spot
The problen with modular stuff is that people dont get the point of it. The main idea of it is that you are building a machine from basic building blocks, so you need a plan or concept to approach the problem. If you dont know the thing you are building all costs go way higher than you expect, module selection becomes difficult and the time expended starts to build up.
Yeah, you have to have a pretty good knowledge of how synthesizers work to be able to put a good system together and the number of modules out there is crazy so it requires a lot of experimentation.
@@arcticfoxstudios2018 it requires a lot of investigation to choose wich wants you want and need, but thats the point where you have to be extremely careful and put the work needed to make the right decisions.
I started looking into what kind of modular setup I could get for $2K, but after some research, I decided to give up on that idea. Instead, I’m going to order the Expressive E Osmose. It offers incredible features and functionality for under $2K. Not only is it a full-fledged synth, but it also works as a controller for my favorite synths like Halion. With the leftover budget, I plan to grab Falcon when it goes on sale next.
My modular is worth many times what my Osmose is, but if you forced me to only have one or the other, I'd pick the Osmose without hesitation. Please don't force me to choose though.
Beautifully shot video and I am subscribing. But (there's always a but) I think a few of your observations might be missing the point for many of us in euro (or modular, let's not forget the other formats lol). Personally my journey started because I wanted the tactile nature of a hands on, totally flexible instrument, I wanted to learn about it, build it, play with it to relax after work, not really to make music (I have a bunch of stuff that is better to play). Euro doesn't need to be expensive a small system built DIY could cost less than you think, modules from thonk, freemodular, frequency central, music thing modular, Erica synths, doepfer and many others offer affordable eurorack. Whilst warp looks interesting it's way beyond my cost centre plus I came to euro to escape screens (as many do). You mention I/o, again that assumes you want to connect to something but you really don't need to, generative, soundscape, ambient are a joy in euro and rarely need sequencing or keyboards, midi isn't ideal in euro but items like a beatstep pro can save money and space if you need it, hell alot of people already have a key step/beatstep for their daw. If you need to save money throwing the euro out to a daw means all your effects and even percussion can be outside the box and potentially free. The area that euro really needs to address in terms of cost is cases and power, this is indeed a challenge but most people build their own and power it relatively cheaply (doepfer's psu3, frequency Central's PSU bus boards are good and fairly priced) Not sure about your selection of warp, it's the kind of module you think you want when you start but before you know it, it may be the kind of module you don't use and at that price I would consider something else. I say this because it would of been the kind of module I would have lusted over when I started but now I wouldn't want it, don't want complex menu driven modules (there are a couple of exceptions though because their menu's are easy and reading them isn't necessary). Lastly it's addictive, dipping your toe in rarely ends with just your toe🤣
To your first point, I do get that. I'm a structural engineer, so I love the building side of things. Just for me right now, I don't have the spare time so, yeah, looking for a few shortcuts. On your second point, that is one thing holding me back from purchasing it. If I only have to dive one or maybe two menus in, then I'm ok, but past that it starts to get painful. It's one reason I never bought a Roland SP-404. Super powerful, but the menu diving and key combo memorizing is too much. For your last point, yeah,, that's what worries me, lol.
@arcticfoxstudios2018 come 🫴 n in, the water is fine🤣I get the time issue although when a build goes well simple modules take about 1 hour to build. Perhaps maybe consider a complex oscillator like 3body (expensive end) or cre8te audio's captain big O instead (value end, or anything in between), you'd have dollar spare for an envelope gen, vca and filter which might be more versatile in the future, after all it's modular right🤣 an Ornament and crime doesn't cost the earth and will save it's functions, has a little screen but the menus are intuitive and fast running Phazerville firmware it gives a wealth of functions in very low hp. You will find you run out of hp fast! Anyway good luck whatever you do, looking forward to following you along your journey
Eurorack is not expensive to start. Get a nifty case and fill it with beringer or the OG dopher. Then when it's full relax and get more expensive modules. The disting or the EX is a no brainer, that thing does everything! Really the cost is spread out with every module. A minimum start would be a dopfer A-111-6 and a sequencer with trigger and volt per octave. That and the case is under $500. And you can do alot with just that. Then get a disting for effects if you want to get fancy you are still well under a grand. Also beringer do some great modules for a steal including their brains module that is under $100. And that is basically a plats! Second hand and DIY (if you can) will bring down costs. When you are happy (you never will be!) You can save for those flag ship modules. Most will be under $500. Slow and steady.
I hear you. My problem now is there are about 30 modules I would love to get so need to narrow it down to about 3 to start. That and it will be a bit of a time sink at the start which I don't have a lot of at the current moment.
Have not made the dive... YET. Have lusted a 100m since mid-80s. I really appreciate your points, as I feel they're quite valid, and I've learned about some cool modules I wasn't aware of(!).
I was wondering about 500 Series and Eurorack. Can thay share the same rack / power supplies? It confuses me becuse the only differnce balanced cables? I would think Eurorack would just update the standard to balanced?
i think there should be some data bus with power (even just good old serial bus), with parameter info allowing not just presets but let centralized controls and maybe also passthru midi to modules, even pc could been used for this
I can’t decide if this entire video is tongue-in-cheek, but it would make sense to me that way 😊 You define two problems: cost and complexity. Then you propose to solve it with units that are twice as expensive (or worse) and still have to be powered just right, connected just so and placed in those extra-costly cases. And then, maybe, they’ll match a standalone synth in features. I’m only window-shopping, no intention to go hardware and no savings to burn for it. But I do love the grid in Bitwig, which is a modular system implemented in software, and I can confirm that all the fun’s in the patching, and that it’s definitely not for when you’re busy. But the idea of building a modular system and knowing that, sure, I can use one more envelope in my patch, if I order it online, if I have a free power connection and a free slot in my Eurorack case … no, that’s just not for me. This thing would break my heart.
I don't think Eurorack will ever be as cost effective as regular synthesizers, but I would argue that the Warp and Disting are more cost effective compared to purchasing lower cost individual units because they pack more into one package. Heck, the Disting can easily replace at least a dozen modules on any large setup, so it's going to be save hundreds of dollars in that sense. And, you can get away from larger cases too, so you save some money there. Bitwig seems like a very cost effective way to do modular without the hassle of setting up hardware. I'm going to have to buy it one of these years.
Buying a synth vs building a eurorack is basically the same as buying a car vs building/modifying a car. For the same budget you can almost always buy a "better" car with less headaches than you can buy a lesser car and parts to build it up, but that kind of completely misses the point of the hobby.
If presets are important to you there are some switching options, such as Exchange by Archaea. It won’t solve any of the big categories you name, but it makes some modest patch-selection available. The same can be gained cheaper with manual matrix switches such as those from Frequency Central.
Nice @ Cardinal shout-out :) Early on in my Eurorack adventure I decided I wanted to build every module and case myself. Yes it takes more time, but I really enjoy doing the builds and every module expands the possibilities of the system. The main advantage is that it prevents me from going down the deep dark rabbit-hole with all the commercial ready made modules that would quickly empty my bank account.
I think you are right! I have felt this way when I look at modular but couldn't explain it as well as you are here.. it's like it's purposely trying to be cumbersome. It should grow.
Building your own modules is great fun. When buying complete kits you’ll only need a bit of soldering skills to put it all together. DIY is also very rewarding. Having said that, my current rig is about 80% DIY. Playing with it live is always a big challenge but also great fun! Loved this video BTW. 👍🏻
Well, if we were to start over with modern technology, the backplane would provide power and a fast network. Modules would be all digital (which, with care, can sound the same anyway, as we are now seeing), and there would be no physical cables; just a well defined back-side protocol for sending _bundles_ of (in the Eurorack ethos) untyped sample streams over the backplane, together with (here's the important part) a _front-side protocol_ that would allow the system to sense the knobs or buttons I was touching with my left and right hands _and patch them together in the backplane_ regardless of where they are in the rig or who manufactured them. Oh, and feedback conventions so you can _see_ what's patched to what (perhaps we need to standardise some pulsing coloured capacitive-sensing controls…). As to where the computation happens, I'd suggest that the backplane should contain a computer that is as beefy as we can make it without needing a fan. Modules _can_ be lightweight and consist of a faceplate and a microcontroller that, when configured, uploads a computational spec to the main computer; or they can be heavy and have onboard analogue circuitry or other specialised or extensive computational resources. And of course you can install modules that just provide computation if you have more lightweight modules than your backplane CPU can support. Such a device would presumably provide USB C connectors to the case, not the modules, and could easily provide _global_ state saving, _global_ state modulation, and indeed direct state send/receive to external storage or VCV-Rack-like (or indeed PD-like) software only devices (where they might actually run directly, if only lightweight style modules were in the patch). You could actually integrate this with existing Eurorack by adding a parallel data connection and putting a backplane computer in the case. Modules can have Eurorack connectors or not, as they will. In fact, this is almost what happens in the control plane if you connect a bunch of Distings together and use MIDI signalling. Except that there's no super multi channel audio data path in the backplane, and there's no virtual patching protocol between devices, it's all menu diving and memory. ~~~~~ Incidentally, you're exactly right with your analogy to C++. But C++, for all its accumulation of features, is (like FORTRAN before it, actually) a nightmare of a language, with a cognitive load out of all proportion to its abilities. The reason I got into Eurorack is to avoid the mental pathways of programming. Don't get me wrong, I've spent my life as a software engineer, I have no fear of the most highly digital modules and I was honestly a bit puzzled when you described Eurorack as being like assembling a PC because, well, it's _so_ much simpler. But synths that are like programming, even worse, synths that are like programming in some half-assed graphical language-I just don't need any _more_ of that in my life. I know I'm paying money to make that go away, and to be working in physical space and not on a computer, but that's the thing, in Eurorack I'm controlling my own experience in the physical world to a meaningful extent. That and, weirdly, the physical connection to those boutique manufacturers. Thanks to TH-cam, I can even visualise the _faces_ of the people who made the things that I'm using, sometimes even reason, ah, this works this way because of the way Andrew, or Jason, or Tony, or Émilie thinks. That's kind of neat, actually. So, for me, those are the qualities to preserve. [Edited for typo]
I got out of modular early, it was a very lucky escape just prior to full blown addiction kicking in. The creativity options are endless, but the amount of money required to properly take advantage was frightening to me. I kept a couple of power supplies and a small case though, just in case…
You missed the 4MS MetaModule that uses VCV rack as another alternative to individual modules .. As well as the other Disting versions (MK4,EX) all menu based Modules ... The big advantage with Eurorack is the DIY as well as the Multi function capability (Effects Processor etc) Also interoperability with Software (VCV Rack, Super Collider, DAW etc) using the Expert sleepers ES8 or ES9 .. There's also Eurorack Video Effects Processors and Lighting effects .. the Choices are endless this is what makes Eurorack so enticing !!... LEGO for Musicians !!
I like the modular euro rack idea. Building your own synth. But I hate all the cable/wires. You described it very good: All the place and time you waste for not making music…
@ I like soldering and have built several gear kits like the Jeannie synth or the ones by Wirehead. But I am not sure if I like to handle all this modular stuff.
The thing is that with Euro that you get lost easy in the lure of huge marketing and sales strategies of the market and spending 10k qiuck. 10k you would have better invested into dedicated instruments that got a resale value, where you got at least 80% back if you want to sell it. Money you've put into Euro is lost money. Sure you can sell some module even for more than what you paid but as a long time Euro user with a medium sized system at one point I can tell you honestly if you want to sell your system off be prepared loosing like 50% in an overall calculation. And then having to deal with 50 modules to sell individually is a huge PITA and the complete opposite of the feeling you had when you bought them. Noone will buy your system as a whole. And yes the pricing seems quite steep if you compare it for let's say a BugBrand system.
Eurorack is not gonna go completely into the realm that the Neuzit warp is. As cool as it is that Neuzit made a fantastic and innovative module that combines additive & wavetable synthesis, it does not sound warm, and it lacks fidelity (especially in low frequency tones) because it is less than 512 sinusoidal partials which is the minimum needed to synthesize a saw wave with high frequency details above 10kHz when playing notes with the fundamental lower than about 50-100 Hertz. If you want a great sounding additive synth, you need to look at software still. Such as the Native instruments Razor or the Image Line Harmor. (I hope to stand corrected if anyone knows of an additive eurorack oscillator that does 512 partials. There will always be those who want complete control over the possibilities which can only come with true modular synthesis which mostly uses utilities. (Joranalogue has an amazing range of modules that fit this description and their quality on sound is second to none). The desire for unlimited range of frequency while maintaining fidelity and ability to reconfigure your eurorack case or re-patch is pretty common and suited to those with the kind of mind that enjoys problem solving and uncharted territory. Also, as good as the disting is for having so many features, the idea of only being able to use one, two or 4 of the features at a time, kind of ruins the excitement for me. Id rather get a dedicated module to do certain jobs, that with the right knowledge, you can make it do other things too. If you want a bigger screen, and have interested in modular synthesis, but don't have the money to spend on Eurorack, use a computer and install Bitwig to use their super powerful and modern modular environment "PolyGrid" which has none of the quality issues I listed above due to DAW-wide 4x oversampling. And if you don't have time for the learning curve for Polygrid, then I recommend you stick to making music and youtube videos about korg minilogue or something else and be limited to the same possibities that 9 out of 10 electronic musicians have.
Psh. I jumped right into Verbos Electronics X^D However, I can appreciate your perspective, but I do think that you miss a bit of the appeal to Eurorack, which is not all about "presets" its to get away from presets. Its explorations, and endless variation. Eurorack really isn't for everyone, and it's a type of sound maker / designer / sculptor that it appeals to. 4MS makes "The Meta Module" which allows you to load whatever modeled, module you can think of from VCV Rack. Before, there was also Audulus which literally allowed you to design everything you could think of on an iPad! I appreciate your thoughts, but there is a bit of a love to all this that doesn't exactly lend itself to traditional music making!
Modular is cheap and easy now. There are 100s if not 1000s of tutorials and the entry level modules from various companies are more than affordable. Comparing modular synths to typical hardware synths makes as much sense as comparing them to acoustic instruments. Something like a bassoon is monophonic and has only 1 "preset" yet people pay $5 - 10k for a good quality one. 10k of modular you can make unlimited sounds for the rest of your life. There are things possible in modular that very few or no hardware synths let you do. Even the lowly Behringer 2600 can make sounds impossible on a non-modular synth. My advice for you would be use virtual modulars with some decent midi controllers. Then you can have most of the flexibility of modular but also have things like polyphony and patch recall.
Good thoughts. UVI's Falcon is pretty much like that for me and I use it all the time. Getting some Eurorack hardware though, might be a good way to force myself to explore different sonic territories, although, it will literally cost me some $$.
@@arcticfoxstudios2018 Behringer 100m modules (dual vco, vcf, vca), along with chaos and abacus and an expert sleepers disting doesn't cost too much and is a reasonable starter system. From there you can add 2 or 3 specialty modules and you'll most likely be happy with the functionality to price ratio. The biggest downside of modular is the endlessness though. If you find you have an addictive personality or obsessive tendencies it's probably best to avoid modular like other addictive things.
This is a greta video and all true. Even hit the point that all the listed negatives are also/can be positives 😂 I love eurorack and all the complexity/strife of it 😃👍 Also: 4ms meta module. I got it and its changed my rack usage significantly!
It sounds like you just don't like Eurorack. Many of the things you mentioned as negatives are things I really enjoy about modular systems. If you want presets, menu diving, and ease of use just get a few desktop synths and call it a day. Nothing wrong with that approach.
A few commentors are saying that, so maybe I came across the wrong way in the video. Presets if it saves me some time...yes, but having everything as presets does destroy part of the magic/soul of Eurorack, so I'm not advocating for that. Some menu diving I'm ok with, but if it's going 3 or 4 levels deep, then it starts to become cumbersome. Seems like a decent percentage of Eurorack users absolutely hate menu diving, which I get. The tradeoff is much larger systems though, so I guess I'm advocating for a sort of middle ground. Thanks for your thoughts on this.
@arcticfoxstudios2018 yea, no doubt man! Also, I totally wasn't hating on your video or perspective or anything like that. I think the way you presented your points just kinda came off (to me) as from an individual that maybe just isn't into what eurorack brings to the table. It is not cheap, and it is not "easy", but it offers a way to create and explore sound that's unique. I personally love that Eurorack is so impermanent. It's finding beauty in those moments with a unique patch that you might never find again, or creating sounds that would be incredibly difficult to manufacturer via any other means. I used to be a desktop synths guy, but once I got my first semi modular (make noise 0-Coast) it kind of opened my eyes to the possibilities that approach offers. I've since sold off most of my desktop gear and replaced it with a Eurorack system that's tailored to exactly how I want to make music. And that journey in designing and building my own system makes using it and the output that much more rewarding for me. Just my two cents though. Keep making videos! If people are talking about your content you're doing something right 😃✌️
Cool, thanks Tyler. The comments on this one definitely blew up compared to most of my other videos, so I'm finding other peoples takes on this interesting and definitely informative.
i have the Neuzeit Instruments Warp. To me it have a Digital Sound, but in a very good way. I have also Analog Modules, for example Verbos Modules, and they have def. a very Analog Sound, it's pretty different to the Neuzeit Warp. But as I say, the Warp Digital additive Wavetable like sound, is very beautiful. I actually also like Digital Sounds I have to admit.
I was seriously considering the Waldorf Iridium at one point, but it's a bit too edgy sounding for me, especially at a couple of grand. I thought the Warp sounded a lot smoother in comparison, although, I agree, even really good digital analog can't quite match true analog sound. Do you like the Warp or is there too much menu diving? Curious to your thoughts on it.
@@arcticfoxstudios2018 I mean, I think you can also make Analog sounding sounds, like you can with a Native Instruments Massive, but its still a bit different to that true analog sound, like the old Buchla Modules or a Minimoog and that kind of analog Synths. For me, the Warp really shines with that digital additive wavetable like flavor. I dont think its to much menu diving, but as a kid from the 90s, I dont have to much of a problem with that. For me, the Octatrack is also not too much menu diving, and a lot of people hat it for that. LOL But really, you just have to get your head around, it's not so complicated. It have many many features, but the developer did it very clever, also with the macros. For a person like you, who want to get into modular, but you also dont want to spend tons of money and spend so much time, to look at many different modules, its deffentely a good, maybe one of the best modules you can get to start. As you said in your video, Cases can be expensive, maybe you could also get a used 4ms Case, or Make Noise have one case with power, 104 HP for not to much money, you may can find used for a good price. Then you would have already a full voice you can do everything with, and also have some space left, if you may want to add something. Whats also pretty cool is the "spectral Filter" in that Module. So, it depends a bit what you want, if you want to have many features in one, which you can also use live with the macros and safe presets, it's very good. If you want to have the whole patching fun, then its not the right module. But you could then also use it as a very good oscillator for example. Its also very nice for drones, since it have four voices.
Eurorack is just really weird and diverse on purpose, and its not meant for newbies or keyboard players. Its great for its somewhat more open-ended sound design and generative possibilities, but some guys actually get the idea of using it as a performance tool and thats where they F up. 😂😂😂 In all seriousness tho, it's crazy how little reliable info there is on this stuff. And the module market is stupid: This boutique guy has like a white noise generator and a couple knobs - $300 But that guy (a clone of a clone) is a multiosc, self-gated, self-FM monster that's practically a self-contained full synth minus midi input - $80. There's definitely some customer gaslighting going on in some cases I feel 😂
Modular is perfect for hobbyists who don't depend on making music as their income but have lucrative jobs, a fair amount of spare time, lots of disposable income, and no wife telling them to not, I repeat NOT to buy another module again.
Totally get that. It's weird because sometimes I'm like that with music, but not always. Mountain biking though, give me a new mountain and I could ride for days.
First, I have $$$$ in eurorack & synth parts' not having a clue of inputs outputs vca's & all the jargon, or would I ruin it if I got plugs wrong .. no one would help '.it's like the community liked the niche private.' they talked way over my head .. slowly, I started picking it up by watching countless videos, manuals, etc. still, I only have a fingertips hold on the information after 5 years of research. I enjoy the one off of making music. analog with very little digital ... a postage stamp for a screen & months of learning funtion it takes away from on the fly production,' same as 50 patch cables' I avoid these types of modules' for example SAMPLE DRUM has all the things you described micro sd countless features most go un used unless I can quickly access' there seems to be 2 camps on this one, 1. wants to duplicate & one that free forms one offs I'm in the second camp If I want to duplicate, I record & play in the background & save samples ... the randomness appeals to me. I live near Seattle & often visit trading musican' a store for touring bands trade, hawk, buy & sell equipment some of their presets are scratched into the equipment ' so it can be repeated ... Reproduction is complicated.. I found for my noise / sound making, simple one of a kind is best I just wish the in & outputs were clearly marked. but if everyone had a eurorack what im doing wouldn't be as fun' the exploring is better than a postage stamp screen with 1000 presets. Mainstream Eurorack, I'll pass thank you for the video. Have fun on your journey!!❤
A lot of the appeal of Eurorack is the ability to build unique systems and use those for unique patches. I have plenty of other synths with presets. I don’t need that for Eurorack.
Knob-per-function is preferable to menu diving, both in traditional synths and Eurorack. I want something that plays like an instrument, not a computer or DAW.
It just sounds to me like you just don’t like modular. And that’s perfectly ok.
No, I'd love to have the time and money to play with a larger modular system. Two jobs and a band and a TH-cam channel, very little time for a modular panel...
Fun exploration of eurorack but you dont really get it... This video feels like a cooking enthusiast talking about how restaurants dont use enough apricots becaus they like cooking with apricots.
Yes, if you want screens, menus, and presets, just open your DAW. Some people want their modular to be a DAW, I will never understand that, but that's just me I guess.🙃
I was only thinking the other day in McDonalds where are the apricots?
Love my Modular. I can sit and noodle with it for hours. It’s like meditation.
Fair, but there's a large contingent of the Eurorack community that abhors menu diving. This paradigm will fundamentally never appeal to them.
True. Eurorack also appeals to those that don't care about saving their work. It's 100% exploration for explorations sake, so they aren't bothered by the whole build-destroy-build concept.
@@arcticfoxstudios2018 If you are clueless on how your patches work then I guess they are gone. If you have a decent memory and pay attention while patching 99% of sounds are easy to approximate if not completely recreate. Some patches making heavy use of random generators aren't repeatable but that is the whole point of random isn't it?
@@arcticfoxstudios2018 ever heard of recording or sampling? its not 100% for explorartion's sake. Its about possibilities and finding something unique (for me at least).
Modular isn’t for you if you want to menu dive. That’s the whole point. There is nothing wrong buying a poly synth with presets and big screen. Buy just that, you have your presets then. You can get so creative with using your ears and experimenting vs menu diving on modular. Good luck on finding your sweet spot
This was super fun to watch! Thanks for taking the time to make it and do the research!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it....wait...the great Ricky Tinez has graced my channel??
Big fan of your channel BTW & love your beats.
Really good video.
The problen with modular stuff is that people dont get the point of it.
The main idea of it is that you are building a machine from basic building blocks, so you need a plan or concept to approach the problem.
If you dont know the thing you are building all costs go way higher than you expect, module selection becomes difficult and the time expended starts to build up.
Its like trying to build a house without a plan and all the technical documents you need to build one
Yeah, you have to have a pretty good knowledge of how synthesizers work to be able to put a good system together and the number of modules out there is crazy so it requires a lot of experimentation.
@@arcticfoxstudios2018 it requires a lot of investigation to choose wich wants you want and need, but thats the point where you have to be extremely careful and put the work needed to make the right decisions.
I started looking into what kind of modular setup I could get for $2K, but after some research, I decided to give up on that idea. Instead, I’m going to order the Expressive E Osmose. It offers incredible features and functionality for under $2K. Not only is it a full-fledged synth, but it also works as a controller for my favorite synths like Halion. With the leftover budget, I plan to grab Falcon when it goes on sale next.
The Osmose is fantastic. I love mine. I got the Kilohearts deal over black Friday that had the Osmose MPE presets and those are really good too.
My modular is worth many times what my Osmose is, but if you forced me to only have one or the other, I'd pick the Osmose without hesitation. Please don't force me to choose though.
Beautifully shot video and I am subscribing. But (there's always a but) I think a few of your observations might be missing the point for many of us in euro (or modular, let's not forget the other formats lol). Personally my journey started because I wanted the tactile nature of a hands on, totally flexible instrument, I wanted to learn about it, build it, play with it to relax after work, not really to make music (I have a bunch of stuff that is better to play). Euro doesn't need to be expensive a small system built DIY could cost less than you think, modules from thonk, freemodular, frequency central, music thing modular, Erica synths, doepfer and many others offer affordable eurorack. Whilst warp looks interesting it's way beyond my cost centre plus I came to euro to escape screens (as many do). You mention I/o, again that assumes you want to connect to something but you really don't need to, generative, soundscape, ambient are a joy in euro and rarely need sequencing or keyboards, midi isn't ideal in euro but items like a beatstep pro can save money and space if you need it, hell alot of people already have a key step/beatstep for their daw. If you need to save money throwing the euro out to a daw means all your effects and even percussion can be outside the box and potentially free. The area that euro really needs to address in terms of cost is cases and power, this is indeed a challenge but most people build their own and power it relatively cheaply (doepfer's psu3, frequency Central's PSU bus boards are good and fairly priced)
Not sure about your selection of warp, it's the kind of module you think you want when you start but before you know it, it may be the kind of module you don't use and at that price I would consider something else. I say this because it would of been the kind of module I would have lusted over when I started but now I wouldn't want it, don't want complex menu driven modules (there are a couple of exceptions though because their menu's are easy and reading them isn't necessary).
Lastly it's addictive, dipping your toe in rarely ends with just your toe🤣
To your first point, I do get that. I'm a structural engineer, so I love the building side of things. Just for me right now, I don't have the spare time so, yeah, looking for a few shortcuts.
On your second point, that is one thing holding me back from purchasing it. If I only have to dive one or maybe two menus in, then I'm ok, but past that it starts to get painful. It's one reason I never bought a Roland SP-404. Super powerful, but the menu diving and key combo memorizing is too much.
For your last point, yeah,, that's what worries me, lol.
@arcticfoxstudios2018 come 🫴 n in, the water is fine🤣I get the time issue although when a build goes well simple modules take about 1 hour to build. Perhaps maybe consider a complex oscillator like 3body (expensive end) or cre8te audio's captain big O instead (value end, or anything in between), you'd have dollar spare for an envelope gen, vca and filter which might be more versatile in the future, after all it's modular right🤣 an Ornament and crime doesn't cost the earth and will save it's functions, has a little screen but the menus are intuitive and fast running Phazerville firmware it gives a wealth of functions in very low hp.
You will find you run out of hp fast!
Anyway good luck whatever you do, looking forward to following you along your journey
Eurorack is not expensive to start. Get a nifty case and fill it with beringer or the OG dopher. Then when it's full relax and get more expensive modules. The disting or the EX is a no brainer, that thing does everything! Really the cost is spread out with every module. A minimum start would be a dopfer A-111-6 and a sequencer with trigger and volt per octave. That and the case is under $500. And you can do alot with just that. Then get a disting for effects if you want to get fancy you are still well under a grand. Also beringer do some great modules for a steal including their brains module that is under $100. And that is basically a plats! Second hand and DIY (if you can) will bring down costs. When you are happy (you never will be!) You can save for those flag ship modules. Most will be under $500. Slow and steady.
I hear you. My problem now is there are about 30 modules I would love to get so need to narrow it down to about 3 to start. That and it will be a bit of a time sink at the start which I don't have a lot of at the current moment.
Have not made the dive... YET. Have lusted a 100m since mid-80s. I really appreciate your points, as I feel they're quite valid, and I've learned about some cool modules I wasn't aware of(!).
That's one of the things I like about Eurorack, it's got modules that can do some pretty crazy things.
I was wondering about 500 Series and Eurorack. Can thay share the same rack / power supplies? It confuses me becuse the only differnce balanced cables? I would think Eurorack would just update the standard to balanced?
No, unfortunately they can't share the same power.
i think there should be some data bus with power (even just good old serial bus), with parameter info allowing not just presets but let centralized controls and maybe also passthru midi to modules, even pc could been used for this
That would be cool.
I can’t decide if this entire video is tongue-in-cheek, but it would make sense to me that way 😊 You define two problems: cost and complexity. Then you propose to solve it with units that are twice as expensive (or worse) and still have to be powered just right, connected just so and placed in those extra-costly cases. And then, maybe, they’ll match a standalone synth in features.
I’m only window-shopping, no intention to go hardware and no savings to burn for it. But I do love the grid in Bitwig, which is a modular system implemented in software, and I can confirm that all the fun’s in the patching, and that it’s definitely not for when you’re busy.
But the idea of building a modular system and knowing that, sure, I can use one more envelope in my patch, if I order it online, if I have a free power connection and a free slot in my Eurorack case … no, that’s just not for me. This thing would break my heart.
I don't think Eurorack will ever be as cost effective as regular synthesizers, but I would argue that the Warp and Disting are more cost effective compared to purchasing lower cost individual units because they pack more into one package. Heck, the Disting can easily replace at least a dozen modules on any large setup, so it's going to be save hundreds of dollars in that sense. And, you can get away from larger cases too, so you save some money there.
Bitwig seems like a very cost effective way to do modular without the hassle of setting up hardware. I'm going to have to buy it one of these years.
Buying a synth vs building a eurorack is basically the same as buying a car vs building/modifying a car. For the same budget you can almost always buy a "better" car with less headaches than you can buy a lesser car and parts to build it up, but that kind of completely misses the point of the hobby.
If presets are important to you there are some switching options, such as Exchange by
Archaea. It won’t solve any of the big categories you name, but it makes some modest patch-selection available. The same can be gained cheaper with manual matrix switches such as those from Frequency Central.
Thanks, did not know about that one. It looks pretty cools and probably would also be great for live performances too.
Nice @ Cardinal shout-out :)
Early on in my Eurorack adventure I decided I wanted to build every module and case myself. Yes it takes more time, but I really enjoy doing the builds and every module expands the possibilities of the system. The main advantage is that it prevents me from going down the deep dark rabbit-hole with all the commercial ready made modules that would quickly empty my bank account.
Youre absolutely right. Now stop rocking my eurorack ship. The lack of accessibility is why i go through all this bs
LOL
I think you are right! I have felt this way when I look at modular but couldn't explain it as well as you are here.. it's like it's purposely trying to be cumbersome. It should grow.
Building your own modules is great fun. When buying complete kits you’ll only need a bit of soldering skills to put it all together. DIY is also very rewarding. Having said that, my current rig is about 80% DIY. Playing with it live is always a big challenge but also great fun!
Loved this video BTW. 👍🏻
Well, if we were to start over with modern technology, the backplane would provide power and a fast network. Modules would be all digital (which, with care, can sound the same anyway, as we are now seeing), and there would be no physical cables; just a well defined back-side protocol for sending _bundles_ of (in the Eurorack ethos) untyped sample streams over the backplane, together with (here's the important part) a _front-side protocol_ that would allow the system to sense the knobs or buttons I was touching with my left and right hands _and patch them together in the backplane_ regardless of where they are in the rig or who manufactured them. Oh, and feedback conventions so you can _see_ what's patched to what (perhaps we need to standardise some pulsing coloured capacitive-sensing controls…).
As to where the computation happens, I'd suggest that the backplane should contain a computer that is as beefy as we can make it without needing a fan. Modules _can_ be lightweight and consist of a faceplate and a microcontroller that, when configured, uploads a computational spec to the main computer; or they can be heavy and have onboard analogue circuitry or other specialised or extensive computational resources. And of course you can install modules that just provide computation if you have more lightweight modules than your backplane CPU can support.
Such a device would presumably provide USB C connectors to the case, not the modules, and could easily provide _global_ state saving, _global_ state modulation, and indeed direct state send/receive to external storage or VCV-Rack-like (or indeed PD-like) software only devices (where they might actually run directly, if only lightweight style modules were in the patch).
You could actually integrate this with existing Eurorack by adding a parallel data connection and putting a backplane computer in the case. Modules can have Eurorack connectors or not, as they will. In fact, this is almost what happens in the control plane if you connect a bunch of Distings together and use MIDI signalling. Except that there's no super multi channel audio data path in the backplane, and there's no virtual patching protocol between devices, it's all menu diving and memory.
~~~~~
Incidentally, you're exactly right with your analogy to C++. But C++, for all its accumulation of features, is (like FORTRAN before it, actually) a nightmare of a language, with a cognitive load out of all proportion to its abilities. The reason I got into Eurorack is to avoid the mental pathways of programming. Don't get me wrong, I've spent my life as a software engineer, I have no fear of the most highly digital modules and I was honestly a bit puzzled when you described Eurorack as being like assembling a PC because, well, it's _so_ much simpler. But synths that are like programming, even worse, synths that are like programming in some half-assed graphical language-I just don't need any _more_ of that in my life. I know I'm paying money to make that go away, and to be working in physical space and not on a computer, but that's the thing, in Eurorack I'm controlling my own experience in the physical world to a meaningful extent.
That and, weirdly, the physical connection to those boutique manufacturers. Thanks to TH-cam, I can even visualise the _faces_ of the people who made the things that I'm using, sometimes even reason, ah, this works this way because of the way Andrew, or Jason, or Tony, or Émilie thinks. That's kind of neat, actually.
So, for me, those are the qualities to preserve.
[Edited for typo]
Very interesting comment. Totally get your programming analogy and I see how patching cables would be a lot more organic in nature.
I got out of modular early, it was a very lucky escape just prior to full blown addiction kicking in.
The creativity options are endless, but the amount of money required to properly take advantage was frightening to me.
I kept a couple of power supplies and a small case though, just in case…
Can totally see that. Kind of like Minecraft for synth users. If you have enough time and money, you can just keep building.
You missed the 4MS MetaModule that uses VCV rack as another alternative to individual modules .. As well as the other Disting versions (MK4,EX) all menu based Modules ... The big advantage with Eurorack is the DIY as well as the Multi function capability (Effects Processor etc) Also interoperability with Software (VCV Rack, Super Collider, DAW etc) using the Expert sleepers ES8 or ES9 .. There's also Eurorack Video Effects Processors and Lighting effects .. the Choices are endless this is what makes Eurorack so enticing !!... LEGO for Musicians !!
Thanks for your suggestions. I'm at the start of my Eurorack journey so trying to learn a lot. it's definitely a very deep rabbit hole.
I like the modular euro rack idea. Building your own synth. But I hate all the cable/wires. You described it very good: All the place and time you waste for not making music…
Yeah, you have to like building and tinkering for sure.
@ I like soldering and have built several gear kits like the Jeannie synth or the ones by Wirehead. But I am not sure if I like to handle all this modular stuff.
The thing is that with Euro that you get lost easy in the lure of huge marketing and sales strategies of the market and spending 10k qiuck. 10k you would have better invested into dedicated instruments that got a resale value, where you got at least 80% back if you want to sell it.
Money you've put into Euro is lost money. Sure you can sell some module even for more than what you paid but as a long time Euro user with a medium sized system at one point I can tell you honestly if you want to sell your system off be prepared loosing like 50% in an overall calculation. And then having to deal with 50 modules to sell individually is a huge PITA and the complete opposite of the feeling you had when you bought them. Noone will buy your system as a whole.
And yes the pricing seems quite steep if you compare it for let's say a BugBrand system.
Eurorack is not gonna go completely into the realm that the Neuzit warp is.
As cool as it is that Neuzit made a fantastic and innovative module that combines additive & wavetable synthesis, it does not sound warm, and it lacks fidelity (especially in low frequency tones) because it is less than 512 sinusoidal partials which is the minimum needed to synthesize a saw wave with high frequency details above 10kHz when playing notes with the fundamental lower than about 50-100 Hertz.
If you want a great sounding additive synth, you need to look at software still. Such as the Native instruments Razor or the Image Line Harmor. (I hope to stand corrected if anyone knows of an additive eurorack oscillator that does 512 partials.
There will always be those who want complete control over the possibilities which can only come with true modular synthesis which mostly uses utilities. (Joranalogue has an amazing range of modules that fit this description and their quality on sound is second to none).
The desire for unlimited range of frequency while maintaining fidelity and ability to reconfigure your eurorack case or re-patch is pretty common and suited to those with the kind of mind that enjoys problem solving and uncharted territory.
Also, as good as the disting is for having so many features, the idea of only being able to use one, two or 4 of the features at a time, kind of ruins the excitement for me. Id rather get a dedicated module to do certain jobs, that with the right knowledge, you can make it do other things too.
If you want a bigger screen, and have interested in modular synthesis, but don't have the money to spend on Eurorack, use a computer and install Bitwig to use their super powerful and modern modular environment "PolyGrid" which has none of the quality issues I listed above due to DAW-wide 4x oversampling.
And if you don't have time for the learning curve for Polygrid, then I recommend you stick to making music and youtube videos about korg minilogue or something else and be limited to the same possibities that 9 out of 10 electronic musicians have.
Psh. I jumped right into Verbos Electronics X^D
However, I can appreciate your perspective, but I do think that you miss a bit of the appeal to Eurorack, which is not all about "presets" its to get away from presets. Its explorations, and endless variation. Eurorack really isn't for everyone, and it's a type of sound maker / designer / sculptor that it appeals to. 4MS makes "The Meta Module" which allows you to load whatever modeled, module you can think of from VCV Rack. Before, there was also Audulus which literally allowed you to design everything you could think of on an iPad! I appreciate your thoughts, but there is a bit of a love to all this that doesn't exactly lend itself to traditional music making!
Nice. Their minihorse looks cool.
@ I updated my comment a bit, I had some thoughts after I had hit send. Good vid, but I do disagree a bit! Thanks :-)
Modular is cheap and easy now. There are 100s if not 1000s of tutorials and the entry level modules from various companies are more than affordable. Comparing modular synths to typical hardware synths makes as much sense as comparing them to acoustic instruments. Something like a bassoon is monophonic and has only 1 "preset" yet people pay $5 - 10k for a good quality one. 10k of modular you can make unlimited sounds for the rest of your life. There are things possible in modular that very few or no hardware synths let you do. Even the lowly Behringer 2600 can make sounds impossible on a non-modular synth. My advice for you would be use virtual modulars with some decent midi controllers. Then you can have most of the flexibility of modular but also have things like polyphony and patch recall.
Good thoughts. UVI's Falcon is pretty much like that for me and I use it all the time. Getting some Eurorack hardware though, might be a good way to force myself to explore different sonic territories, although, it will literally cost me some $$.
@@arcticfoxstudios2018 Behringer 100m modules (dual vco, vcf, vca), along with chaos and abacus and an expert sleepers disting doesn't cost too much and is a reasonable starter system. From there you can add 2 or 3 specialty modules and you'll most likely be happy with the functionality to price ratio. The biggest downside of modular is the endlessness though. If you find you have an addictive personality or obsessive tendencies it's probably best to avoid modular like other addictive things.
This is a greta video and all true.
Even hit the point that all the listed negatives are also/can be positives 😂
I love eurorack and all the complexity/strife of it 😃👍
Also: 4ms meta module. I got it and its changed my rack usage significantly!
It sounds like you just don't like Eurorack. Many of the things you mentioned as negatives are things I really enjoy about modular systems. If you want presets, menu diving, and ease of use just get a few desktop synths and call it a day. Nothing wrong with that approach.
A few commentors are saying that, so maybe I came across the wrong way in the video. Presets if it saves me some time...yes, but having everything as presets does destroy part of the magic/soul of Eurorack, so I'm not advocating for that. Some menu diving I'm ok with, but if it's going 3 or 4 levels deep, then it starts to become cumbersome. Seems like a decent percentage of Eurorack users absolutely hate menu diving, which I get. The tradeoff is much larger systems though, so I guess I'm advocating for a sort of middle ground. Thanks for your thoughts on this.
@arcticfoxstudios2018 yea, no doubt man! Also, I totally wasn't hating on your video or perspective or anything like that. I think the way you presented your points just kinda came off (to me) as from an individual that maybe just isn't into what eurorack brings to the table. It is not cheap, and it is not "easy", but it offers a way to create and explore sound that's unique. I personally love that Eurorack is so impermanent. It's finding beauty in those moments with a unique patch that you might never find again, or creating sounds that would be incredibly difficult to manufacturer via any other means. I used to be a desktop synths guy, but once I got my first semi modular (make noise 0-Coast) it kind of opened my eyes to the possibilities that approach offers. I've since sold off most of my desktop gear and replaced it with a Eurorack system that's tailored to exactly how I want to make music. And that journey in designing and building my own system makes using it and the output that much more rewarding for me. Just my two cents though. Keep making videos! If people are talking about your content you're doing something right 😃✌️
Cool, thanks Tyler. The comments on this one definitely blew up compared to most of my other videos, so I'm finding other peoples takes on this interesting and definitely informative.
i have the Neuzeit Instruments Warp. To me it have a Digital Sound, but in a very good way. I have also Analog Modules, for example Verbos Modules, and they have def. a very Analog Sound, it's pretty different to the Neuzeit Warp. But as I say, the Warp Digital additive Wavetable like sound, is very beautiful. I actually also like Digital Sounds I have to admit.
I was seriously considering the Waldorf Iridium at one point, but it's a bit too edgy sounding for me, especially at a couple of grand. I thought the Warp sounded a lot smoother in comparison, although, I agree, even really good digital analog can't quite match true analog sound. Do you like the Warp or is there too much menu diving? Curious to your thoughts on it.
@@arcticfoxstudios2018 I mean, I think you can also make Analog sounding sounds, like you can with a Native Instruments Massive, but its still a bit different to that true analog sound, like the old Buchla Modules or a Minimoog and that kind of analog Synths.
For me, the Warp really shines with that digital additive wavetable like flavor.
I dont think its to much menu diving, but as a kid from the 90s, I dont have to much of a problem with that. For me, the Octatrack is also not too much menu diving, and a lot of people hat it for that. LOL
But really, you just have to get your head around, it's not so complicated.
It have many many features, but the developer did it very clever, also with the macros.
For a person like you, who want to get into modular, but you also dont want to spend tons of money and spend so much time, to look at many different modules, its deffentely a good, maybe one of the best modules you can get to start.
As you said in your video, Cases can be expensive, maybe you could also get a used 4ms Case, or Make Noise have one case with power, 104 HP for not to much money, you may can find used for a good price.
Then you would have already a full voice you can do everything with, and also have some space left, if you may want to add something.
Whats also pretty cool is the "spectral Filter" in that Module.
So, it depends a bit what you want, if you want to have many features in one, which you can also use live with the macros and safe presets, it's very good.
If you want to have the whole patching fun, then its not the right module.
But you could then also use it as a very good oscillator for example.
Its also very nice for drones, since it have four voices.
Eurorack is just really weird and diverse on purpose, and its not meant for newbies or keyboard players. Its great for its somewhat more open-ended sound design and generative possibilities, but some guys actually get the idea of using it as a performance tool and thats where they F up. 😂😂😂
In all seriousness tho, it's crazy how little reliable info there is on this stuff. And the module market is stupid:
This boutique guy has like a white noise generator and a couple knobs - $300
But that guy (a clone of a clone) is a multiosc, self-gated, self-FM monster that's practically a self-contained full synth minus midi input - $80.
There's definitely some customer gaslighting going on in some cases I feel 😂
Yeah, it's kind of like the wild west of the synth community.
Sounds like you're into the same kind of modules as I do.
Please check the following:
Tesseract Vinia
Expert Sleepers General CV
I definitely like the knobs on the Expert Sleeper modules. They seem really solid.
Modular is perfect for hobbyists who don't depend on making music as their income but have lucrative jobs, a fair amount of spare time, lots of disposable income, and no wife telling them to not, I repeat NOT to buy another module again.
Lol, great response...and totally true!
I hear where you are coming from re: presets……but some of us enjoy the “patch it up, and see where it goes” aspect of eurorack.
Just sayin’
Totally get that. It's weird because sometimes I'm like that with music, but not always. Mountain biking though, give me a new mountain and I could ride for days.
I sure hope this isn't the future of eurorack. I got into it to get away from presets, screens and menus, and the ability to be all analog.
NOW ya' tell me!
LOL
A lot of electronic „music” „producers” would rather throw thousands upon thousands of dollars on autistic Legos than learn basic music theory....
Sadly that is true.
Creativity comes before music theory. It’s pretty easy to learn theory if you haven’t got an ear for music.
Two different things, one product.....sound.
First, I have $$$$ in eurorack & synth parts' not having a clue of inputs outputs vca's & all the jargon, or would I ruin it if I got plugs wrong .. no one would help '.it's like the community liked the niche private.' they talked way over my head .. slowly, I started picking it up by watching countless videos, manuals, etc. still, I only have a fingertips hold on the information
after 5 years of research.
I enjoy the one off of making music. analog with very little digital ... a postage stamp for a screen & months of learning funtion it takes away from on the fly production,' same as 50 patch cables' I avoid these types of modules' for example SAMPLE DRUM has all the things you described micro sd countless features most go un used unless I can quickly access'
there seems to be 2 camps on this one, 1. wants to duplicate & one that free forms one offs I'm in the second camp
If I want to duplicate, I record & play in the background & save samples ...
the randomness appeals to me.
I live near Seattle & often visit trading musican' a store for touring bands trade, hawk, buy & sell equipment some of their presets are scratched into the equipment ' so it can be repeated ... Reproduction is complicated.. I found for my noise / sound making, simple one of a kind is best
I just wish the in & outputs were clearly marked.
but if everyone had a eurorack
what im doing wouldn't be as fun' the exploring is better than a postage stamp screen with 1000 presets.
Mainstream Eurorack, I'll pass
thank you for the video. Have fun on your journey!!❤
Absolutely agree with you on the two camps. I visit the second camp, but am usually in the first one. Glad you liked the video.