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Hi. You also have Percussa SSP, Percussa XMX and 4ms MetaModule in this category :)

OK, I'll bite on this one. Started into Eurorack trying to keep it manageable and failed. From a purely in-the-rack standpoint I might use 150+ cables and still spend hours programming a sequencer. And yeah I do take patch notes on spreadsheets so I have a chance at replicating patches, but any sort of detailed note-taking soaks up hours of time. One thing I have always wanted to look at is the computational complexity of modular systems since they are clearly NxM systems (inputs x outputs) and are subject to combinatorial explosion. Some of these very large modular systems may only ever use a small percentage of their capacity, so the excess is essentially wasted. As for the common trope of being tactile, some aspects ring true, right up until you get into modules that have modal interfaces that require Vulcan dexterity to program. I won't point out any examples, but they are uniformly indicated by the presence of a "quick reference" card. It may be satisfying to have all those knobs and buttons, but from an engineering perspective, synthesis is simply a computational exercise. My engineering school had an analog computer, and it would have looked totally familiar to say, Hainbach. As far as the DIY route goes, I have had good and bad experience, with hardly any cost savings. The cheaper kits are often a case of getting what you pay for, with the better kits being on the more expensive end. So I have gone more on the hybrid Eurorack/synth/DAW side, just out of expediency and convenience. Especially with so many Eurorack modules being computers hiding behind a panel of knobs, it was easy to see the value of a DAW and specialist synths. I did have a Meta module (past tense) and do have a DistingNT, (along with a Nerdseq) and these modules especially argue for a hybrid future. If you can get a preset off the Internet and load it on your Disting NT (without moving cables or swapping SD cards), I fail to see what the downside is to that.

4:21 what is autism?

2:42 a lot of effort??? If I want easy I’ll throw on an album or grab a guitar.

I don't think Eurorack is overly complex as soon as you grasp the basic principles. You even learn a lot about how synthesizers work etc. and even more if you've done a couple diy modules. I also fully disagree that it "has to go mainstream". Of course it may, but if not it's totally fine. What's the problem with being niche? Sure it is somewhat expensive, but on the other hand brings creative ideas, unique innovations and possibilities to the table and lets you explore sound in a completely different manner/approach, which for me is very important and enjoyable. Sure one could use the same "massive" factory preset like every other one. But then he would sound like, well, just as every other one. It's about uniqueness in my opinion, something that today's music sadly has lost for a great part. And lastly it is a lovely, great community like i have never seen or experienced anywhere else. Everyone is willing to share and help. There's a lot of open source projects etc. It just is not that egocentric like many parts and communities of our today's society and also represent ethical values and i love that.

I hope manufacturers watch this one, the song mode requirement certainly is important to me. The Seqtrack is clearly great on features, but why o why that bizarre interface. Interface is very clever and easy on the Circuits, but no polyphony on Rhythm sucks and the Synth on the OG or Track just doesn't sound good. Easy but way too small interface on SmplTrk/LoFi 12 XT (why didn't they use the Liven series case???). Sound-wise the KOII is killer, you can fake a song mode by using up the 99 bars in a scene, but it's stupid you can't tie scenes together. At the end of the day a second-hand OP-1 is probably the best choice for me but that'll run more than the 500 dollars. Ableton Move is pretty cool (would it have won if it had been included in this comparison?). Manufacturers could produce a box that hits all the spots, like a simplified Akai MPC Key 37, which is great value for money when you think about it, for 500 euros or less. Sonicware, Novation, Yamaha, and TE, Roland, all seem perfectly positioned to do it, I'm guessing we'll see a box "ticking all the boxes" sooner or later.

Plinky is in almost every way all that i don't like in one package. I say almost because it sounds good and it is available as a DYI kit. Otherwise it is the owner of the most cursed, and cramped, interface that should never have seen the light of day. So you reckon $14.5 billion in revenue makes AB Inbev fit for that list of bad decisions? Sure a 9.1% drop due to the boycott by hate-filled bigot filth in MAGA hats for all of what, 5 months maybe. So, yeah, $14.5 billion with a b. Also, they own the number one beer in Murikkkah still, Modelo. I pray I can make the kind of decisions that AB Inbev does

This is a greta video and all true. Even hit the point that all the listed negatives are also/can be positives 😂 I love eurorack and all the complexity/strife of it 😃👍 Also: 4ms meta module. I got it and its changed my rack usage significantly!

Eurorack is not gonna go completely into the realm that the Neuzit warp is. As cool as it is that Neuzit made a fantastic and innovative module that combines additive & wavetable synthesis, it does not sound warm, and it lacks fidelity (especially in low frequency tones) because it is less than 512 sinusoidal partials which is the minimum needed to synthesize a saw wave with high frequency details above 10kHz when playing notes with the fundamental lower than about 50-100 Hertz. If you want a great sounding additive synth, you need to look at software still. Such as the Native instruments Razor or the Image Line Harmor. (I hope to stand corrected if anyone knows of an additive eurorack oscillator that does 512 partials. There will always be those who want complete control over the possibilities which can only come with true modular synthesis which mostly uses utilities. (Joranalogue has an amazing range of modules that fit this description and their quality on sound is second to none). The desire for unlimited range of frequency while maintaining fidelity and ability to reconfigure your eurorack case or re-patch is pretty common and suited to those with the kind of mind that enjoys problem solving and uncharted territory. Also, as good as the disting is for having so many features, the idea of only being able to use one, two or 4 of the features at a time, kind of ruins the excitement for me. Id rather get a dedicated module to do certain jobs, that with the right knowledge, you can make it do other things too. If you want a bigger screen, and have interested in modular synthesis, but don't have the money to spend on Eurorack, use a computer and install Bitwig to use their super powerful and modern modular environment "PolyGrid" which has none of the quality issues I listed above due to DAW-wide 4x oversampling. And if you don't have time for the learning curve for Polygrid, then I recommend you stick to making music and youtube videos about korg minilogue or something else and be limited to the same possibities that 9 out of 10 electronic musicians have.

Love my Modular. I can sit and noodle with it for hours. It’s like meditation.

The thing is that with Euro that you get lost easy in the lure of huge marketing and sales strategies of the market and spending 10k qiuck. 10k you would have better invested into dedicated instruments that got a resale value, where you got at least 80% back if you want to sell it. Money you've put into Euro is lost money. Sure you can sell some module even for more than what you paid but as a long time Euro user with a medium sized system at one point I can tell you honestly if you want to sell your system off be prepared loosing like 50% in an overall calculation. And then having to deal with 50 modules to sell individually is a huge PITA and the complete opposite of the feeling you had when you bought them. Noone will buy your system as a whole. And yes the pricing seems quite steep if you compare it for let's say a BugBrand system.

i have the Neuzeit Instruments Warp. To me it have a Digital Sound, but in a very good way. I have also Analog Modules, for example Verbos Modules, and they have def. a very Analog Sound, it's pretty different to the Neuzeit Warp. But as I say, the Warp Digital additive Wavetable like sound, is very beautiful. I actually also like Digital Sounds I have to admit.

I sure hope this isn't the future of eurorack. I got into it to get away from presets, screens and menus, and the ability to be all analog.

Well, if we were to start over with modern technology, the backplane would provide power and a fast network. Modules would be all digital (which, with care, can sound the same anyway, as we are now seeing), and there would be no physical cables; just a well defined back-side protocol for sending _bundles_ of (in the Eurorack ethos) untyped sample streams over the backplane, together with (here's the important part) a _front-side protocol_ that would allow the system to sense the knobs or buttons I was touching with my left and right hands _and patch them together in the backplane_ regardless of where they are in the rig or who manufactured them. Oh, and feedback conventions so you can _see_ what's patched to what (perhaps we need to standardise some pulsing coloured capacitive-sensing controls…). As to where the computation happens, I'd suggest that the backplane should contain a computer that is as beefy as we can make it without needing a fan. Modules _can_ be lightweight and consist of a faceplate and a microcontroller that, when configured, uploads a computational spec to the main computer; or they can be heavy and have onboard analogue circuitry or other specialised or extensive computational resources. And of course you can install modules that just provide computation if you have more lightweight modules than your backplane CPU can support. Such a device would presumably provide USB C connectors to the case, not the modules, and could easily provide _global_ state saving, _global_ state modulation, and indeed direct state send/receive to external storage or VCV-Rack-like (or indeed PD-like) software only devices (where they might actually run directly, if only lightweight style modules were in the patch). You could actually integrate this with existing Eurorack by adding a parallel data connection and putting a backplane computer in the case. Modules can have Eurorack connectors or not, as they will. In fact, this is almost what happens in the control plane if you connect a bunch of Distings together and use MIDI signalling. Except that there's no super multi channel audio data path in the backplane, and there's no virtual patching protocol between devices, it's all menu diving and memory. ~~~~~ Incidentally, you're exactly right with your analogy to C++. But C++, for all its accumulation of features, is (like FORTRAN before it, actually) a nightmare of a language, with a cognitive load out of all proportion to its abilities. The reason I got into Eurorack is to avoid the mental pathways of programming. Don't get me wrong, I've spent my life as a software engineer, I have no fear of the most highly digital modules and I was honestly a bit puzzled when you described Eurorack as being like assembling a PC because, well, it's _so_ much simpler. But synths that are like programming, even worse, synths that are like programming in some half-assed graphical language-I just don't need any _more_ of that in my life. I know I'm paying money to make that go away, and to be working in physical space and not on a computer, but that's the thing, in Eurorack I'm controlling my own experience in the physical world to a meaningful extent. That and, weirdly, the physical connection to those boutique manufacturers. Thanks to TH-cam, I can even visualise the _faces_ of the people who made the things that I'm using, sometimes even reason, ah, this works this way because of the way Andrew, or Jason, or Tony, or Émilie thinks. That's kind of neat, actually. So, for me, those are the qualities to preserve. [Edited for typo]

It sounds like you just don't like Eurorack. Many of the things you mentioned as negatives are things I really enjoy about modular systems. If you want presets, menu diving, and ease of use just get a few desktop synths and call it a day. Nothing wrong with that approach.

You missed the 4MS MetaModule that uses VCV rack as another alternative to individual modules .. As well as the other Disting versions (MK4,EX) all menu based Modules ... The big advantage with Eurorack is the DIY as well as the Multi function capability (Effects Processor etc) Also interoperability with Software (VCV Rack, Super Collider, DAW etc) using the Expert sleepers ES8 or ES9 .. There's also Eurorack Video Effects Processors and Lighting effects .. the Choices are endless this is what makes Eurorack so enticing !!... LEGO for Musicians !!

I hear where you are coming from re: presets……but some of us enjoy the “patch it up, and see where it goes” aspect of eurorack. Just sayin’

NOW ya' tell me!

I got out of modular early, it was a very lucky escape just prior to full blown addiction kicking in. The creativity options are endless, but the amount of money required to properly take advantage was frightening to me. I kept a couple of power supplies and a small case though, just in case…

First, I have $$$$ in eurorack & synth parts' not having a clue of inputs outputs vca's & all the jargon, or would I ruin it if I got plugs wrong .. no one would help '.it's like the community liked the niche private.' they talked way over my head .. slowly, I started picking it up by watching countless videos, manuals, etc. still, I only have a fingertips hold on the information after 5 years of research. I enjoy the one off of making music. analog with very little digital ... a postage stamp for a screen & months of learning funtion it takes away from on the fly production,' same as 50 patch cables' I avoid these types of modules' for example SAMPLE DRUM has all the things you described micro sd countless features most go un used unless I can quickly access' there seems to be 2 camps on this one, 1. wants to duplicate & one that free forms one offs I'm in the second camp If I want to duplicate, I record & play in the background & save samples ... the randomness appeals to me. I live near Seattle & often visit trading musican' a store for touring bands trade, hawk, buy & sell equipment some of their presets are scratched into the equipment ' so it can be repeated ... Reproduction is complicated.. I found for my noise / sound making, simple one of a kind is best I just wish the in & outputs were clearly marked. but if everyone had a eurorack what im doing wouldn't be as fun' the exploring is better than a postage stamp screen with 1000 presets. Mainstream Eurorack, I'll pass thank you for the video. Have fun on your journey!!❤

A lot of the appeal of Eurorack is the ability to build unique systems and use those for unique patches. I have plenty of other synths with presets. I don’t need that for Eurorack. Knob-per-function is preferable to menu diving, both in traditional synths and Eurorack. I want something that plays like an instrument, not a computer or DAW.

I like the modular euro rack idea. Building your own synth. But I hate all the cable/wires. You described it very good: All the place and time you waste for not making music…

If presets are important to you there are some switching options, such as Exchange by Archaea. It won’t solve any of the big categories you name, but it makes some modest patch-selection available. The same can be gained cheaper with manual matrix switches such as those from Frequency Central.

Modular isn’t for you if you want to menu dive. That’s the whole point. There is nothing wrong buying a poly synth with presets and big screen. Buy just that, you have your presets then. You can get so creative with using your ears and experimenting vs menu diving on modular. Good luck on finding your sweet spot

Modular is cheap and easy now. There are 100s if not 1000s of tutorials and the entry level modules from various companies are more than affordable. Comparing modular synths to typical hardware synths makes as much sense as comparing them to acoustic instruments. Something like a bassoon is monophonic and has only 1 "preset" yet people pay $5 - 10k for a good quality one. 10k of modular you can make unlimited sounds for the rest of your life. There are things possible in modular that very few or no hardware synths let you do. Even the lowly Behringer 2600 can make sounds impossible on a non-modular synth. My advice for you would be use virtual modulars with some decent midi controllers. Then you can have most of the flexibility of modular but also have things like polyphony and patch recall.

Building your own modules is great fun. When buying complete kits you’ll only need a bit of soldering skills to put it all together. DIY is also very rewarding. Having said that, my current rig is about 80% DIY. Playing with it live is always a big challenge but also great fun! Loved this video BTW. 👍🏻

Nice @ Cardinal shout-out :) Early on in my Eurorack adventure I decided I wanted to build every module and case myself. Yes it takes more time, but I really enjoy doing the builds and every module expands the possibilities of the system. The main advantage is that it prevents me from going down the deep dark rabbit-hole with all the commercial ready made modules that would quickly empty my bank account.

Beautifully shot video and I am subscribing. But (there's always a but) I think a few of your observations might be missing the point for many of us in euro (or modular, let's not forget the other formats lol). Personally my journey started because I wanted the tactile nature of a hands on, totally flexible instrument, I wanted to learn about it, build it, play with it to relax after work, not really to make music (I have a bunch of stuff that is better to play). Euro doesn't need to be expensive a small system built DIY could cost less than you think, modules from thonk, freemodular, frequency central, music thing modular, Erica synths, doepfer and many others offer affordable eurorack. Whilst warp looks interesting it's way beyond my cost centre plus I came to euro to escape screens (as many do). You mention I/o, again that assumes you want to connect to something but you really don't need to, generative, soundscape, ambient are a joy in euro and rarely need sequencing or keyboards, midi isn't ideal in euro but items like a beatstep pro can save money and space if you need it, hell alot of people already have a key step/beatstep for their daw. If you need to save money throwing the euro out to a daw means all your effects and even percussion can be outside the box and potentially free. The area that euro really needs to address in terms of cost is cases and power, this is indeed a challenge but most people build their own and power it relatively cheaply (doepfer's psu3, frequency Central's PSU bus boards are good and fairly priced) Not sure about your selection of warp, it's the kind of module you think you want when you start but before you know it, it may be the kind of module you don't use and at that price I would consider something else. I say this because it would of been the kind of module I would have lusted over when I started but now I wouldn't want it, don't want complex menu driven modules (there are a couple of exceptions though because their menu's are easy and reading them isn't necessary). Lastly it's addictive, dipping your toe in rarely ends with just your toe🤣

Fun exploration of eurorack but you dont really get it... This video feels like a cooking enthusiast talking about how restaurants dont use enough apricots becaus they like cooking with apricots.

Have not made the dive... YET. Have lusted a 100m since mid-80s. I really appreciate your points, as I feel they're quite valid, and I've learned about some cool modules I wasn't aware of(!).

I think you are right! I have felt this way when I look at modular but couldn't explain it as well as you are here.. it's like it's purposely trying to be cumbersome. It should grow.

Eurorack is just really weird and diverse on purpose, and its not meant for newbies or keyboard players. Its great for its somewhat more open-ended sound design and generative possibilities, but some guys actually get the idea of using it as a performance tool and thats where they F up. 😂😂😂 In all seriousness tho, it's crazy how little reliable info there is on this stuff. And the module market is stupid: This boutique guy has like a white noise generator and a couple knobs - $300 But that guy (a clone of a clone) is a multiosc, self-gated, self-FM monster that's practically a self-contained full synth minus midi input - $80. There's definitely some customer gaslighting going on in some cases I feel 😂

Youre absolutely right. Now stop rocking my eurorack ship. The lack of accessibility is why i go through all this bs

Cre8audio's NiftyCase solves a lot of issues with the barrier to entry at $200. It has power, CV, and MIDI already built into it so you don't need as many utility modules. They'll even cut you a deal on a couple modules for an extra $70. But I wanted the space for modules of my own choosing so I built a drum synth rack for about the same price as the Roland TR-8S, including the case, but it's far more capable than the Roland. However, I needed to learn a whole bunch of stuff about synthesis as a whole in order to understand modular synthesis before setting out to build my first rack. That's probably the biggest barrier to entry: knowledge. If you know what you're doing, you can build a pretty powerful rack, albeit small, for the same price as standalone synths made by a big company. But you have to know what you're doing, and you also have to be comfortable with buying used modules because these things are not mass produced since the market for them is a niche, so they are not cheap unless you buy Behringer modules which are mass produced so they are cheap! And they do have some good ones, even if they're clones. But rich folks are always getting bored with their racks and swapping out modules so you can get a $600 Modbap Trinity drum synth for only $300 used (yet in excellent condition) on Reverb like I did. Slap in a $149 Behringer RS-9 for sequencing and that's all you need really. I had space left in my rack so I got the Erica Synths Joystick2 for modulating the drum synth, which the Joystick can also record and loop. So I've got this awesome drum rack with insane performance capabilities for about $750. But yes, you do have to sculpt your drum sounds from scratch using the synth engine. There's no presets. Not even on the sequencer. You have to twist the knobs until you've dialed in a kick, snare, and hats. There's no programmed chipset inside to do it for you. And when you buy one of those standalone synths or drum machines, that's exactly what you're getting: a launching off point that a sound engineer made for you. In modular synthesis, you have to make the presets. But I started with the Behringer Neutron, which is standalone but modular, and I found tons of patches (i.e.- presets) being shared in the community online. You just have to manually turn the knobs and put this cable into that slot etc. So it really comes down to how much you're willing to learn and explore without a big safety net. My first synth was the microKorg in 2002. I'm now more modular, but I did just buy the new microKorg 2 because sometimes I like just being able to fire up a regular keyboard synth with presets for me to play around with. There is definitely value in that, but there is also value in modular and it's not as expensive as you think. Start with semi-modular synths like the Behringer Crave! It's $170 and a great introduction to that world. I started with the Edge for $200 and that lead me to the Neutron and then the RS-9 and now I'm building my first fully modular rack. And it's actually going to work better in my setup because CV is far more capable of doing what I want to do than MIDI. If you're like me and have always found MIDI to be a freaking headache for no reason, you'll love modular setups using CV instead. I mean, modular can and does have MIDI but if you don't like it, you can easily avoid it because MIDI is an afterthought in Eurorack. That's going to be a plus or negative depending on your relationship with MIDI. Personally, I like the fact that as long as my rack has power, it's sending Controlled Voltage out of whatever cable I plug into it. I don't have to navigate some hidden menu locked behind a key combination, like I gotta remember chord shapes on the guitar. No, it's always doing its thing and I can count on it to work. When I turn off my rack, as long as I didn't unplug my cables, the patch I created will be waiting for me tomorrow. With regular synths, you gotta know how to save it in a user bank. See my earlier comment about menu diving. But more on point with the video, Eurorack is not Everest. You don't have to build a huge case to start out with like many of the GearTubers you see. You can do a lot with a little, and you can learn even more in the process. What's the point in having this huge wall of modules that all make the same bleep bloop fart noises anyway? I know Yngwie likes to say "more is more" but that dude only plays one guitar at a time. You don't need half a dozen synth voices. Hainbach's new rack has four of the same synth modules in it. Kinda overkill unless you're Hainbach I guess. First thing you need to do is figure out what you want to do and then figure out the best way for you to do it. Maybe it's modular; maybe it's not. Either way, they've got something to sell you. Do your research first before you buy anything and don't buy anything you can't return. You're going to think the thing you just ordered is going to pull you out of mediocrity but the truth is, no piece of gear can do that. It all comes down to what you do with it.

Psh. I jumped right into Verbos Electronics X^D However, I can appreciate your perspective, but I do think that you miss a bit of the appeal to Eurorack, which is not all about "presets" its to get away from presets. Its explorations, and endless variation. Eurorack really isn't for everyone, and it's a type of sound maker / designer / sculptor that it appeals to. 4MS makes "The Meta Module" which allows you to load whatever modeled, module you can think of from VCV Rack. Before, there was also Audulus which literally allowed you to design everything you could think of on an iPad! I appreciate your thoughts, but there is a bit of a love to all this that doesn't exactly lend itself to traditional music making!

Eurorack is not expensive to start. Get a nifty case and fill it with beringer or the OG dopher. Then when it's full relax and get more expensive modules. The disting or the EX is a no brainer, that thing does everything! Really the cost is spread out with every module. A minimum start would be a dopfer A-111-6 and a sequencer with trigger and volt per octave. That and the case is under $500. And you can do alot with just that. Then get a disting for effects if you want to get fancy you are still well under a grand. Also beringer do some great modules for a steal including their brains module that is under $100. And that is basically a plats! Second hand and DIY (if you can) will bring down costs. When you are happy (you never will be!) You can save for those flag ship modules. Most will be under $500. Slow and steady.

Sounds like you're into the same kind of modules as I do. Please check the following: Tesseract Vinia Expert Sleepers General CV

I was wondering about 500 Series and Eurorack. Can thay share the same rack / power supplies? It confuses me becuse the only differnce balanced cables? I would think Eurorack would just update the standard to balanced?

This was super fun to watch! Thanks for taking the time to make it and do the research!

Modular is perfect for hobbyists who don't depend on making music as their income but have lucrative jobs, a fair amount of spare time, lots of disposable income, and no wife telling them to not, I repeat NOT to buy another module again.

It just sounds to me like you just don’t like modular. And that’s perfectly ok.

i think there should be some data bus with power (even just good old serial bus), with parameter info allowing not just presets but let centralized controls and maybe also passthru midi to modules, even pc could been used for this

shut up

Fair, but there's a large contingent of the Eurorack community that abhors menu diving. This paradigm will fundamentally never appeal to them.

The problen with modular stuff is that people dont get the point of it. The main idea of it is that you are building a machine from basic building blocks, so you need a plan or concept to approach the problem. If you dont know the thing you are building all costs go way higher than you expect, module selection becomes difficult and the time expended starts to build up.

OMG yes thank you, even the 808 from 40 years ago had a gosh darn song mode!!!!

I can’t decide if this entire video is tongue-in-cheek, but it would make sense to me that way 😊 You define two problems: cost and complexity. Then you propose to solve it with units that are twice as expensive (or worse) and still have to be powered just right, connected just so and placed in those extra-costly cases. And then, maybe, they’ll match a standalone synth in features. I’m only window-shopping, no intention to go hardware and no savings to burn for it. But I do love the grid in Bitwig, which is a modular system implemented in software, and I can confirm that all the fun’s in the patching, and that it’s definitely not for when you’re busy. But the idea of building a modular system and knowing that, sure, I can use one more envelope in my patch, if I order it online, if I have a free power connection and a free slot in my Eurorack case … no, that’s just not for me. This thing would break my heart.

I started looking into what kind of modular setup I could get for $2K, but after some research, I decided to give up on that idea. Instead, I’m going to order the Expressive E Osmose. It offers incredible features and functionality for under $2K. Not only is it a full-fledged synth, but it also works as a controller for my favorite synths like Halion. With the leftover budget, I plan to grab Falcon when it goes on sale next.

A lot of electronic „music” „producers” would rather throw thousands upon thousands of dollars on autistic Legos than learn basic music theory....

1:20 Absolutely, the new Browser and tags are definitely a HUGE deal for me… but I guess it depends if you consume presets a lot as a starting point or if you’re sound designing your own sounds. Personally, I want to find quickly som presets I could use during the creation phase. That’s also why I’m a huge fan of NKS because it also offer a great integration with hardware controller, so you can use filters to narrow down the next sound you want for your production, and then you can tweak it on the fly using real knobs… So I really value the new Falcon Browser and tag way more than any new effect or else, and I also hope deeply that’s it’s the step toward to get the whole UVI collection fully NKS ready… I don’t own Falcon yet, I just use it by rent with Sonicpass, but if they make all UVI NKS ready, then I will buy Falcon and some of my favorite library such Vintage Vault 4.