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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- Join ABC acres, a Permaculture Farmstead in Hamilton, MT as we briefly show the start-up process of our batch box style rocket mass heater. Also, due to several requests, we show some different design plan images for our batch box, and give contact info for how to get the full set of plans!
Grant, I would like encourage you start the fire closer to the back of the batch box. This helps to prime the riser. With our batch box, people keep trying to light from the front, which leads to smoke coming out the front - since the riser is not yet primed.
Paul, many thanks for the suggestion! It is appreciated, and I gave it a go this morning on the RMH start, and it worked well for me. Thanks again:)
Also, thanks for taking the time to watch and respond to our videos. I know your time is at a premium so your participation and insights are really valued:)
paul wheat one is
When my mass is still warm, starting a fire is easy. When it's cold, I have to coax the riser with a tiny fire for about 5 minutes. Slowly, I can build it.
I welded up a free standing barrel with a stick burner, insulated firebrick burn chamber and riser, with a block and crushed stone mass. I now have the materials for welding up a batch box attachment. woohoo!
So many ideas are popping up while attending TH-cam University. I can't wait to build another already.
Thanks for sharing!
Grant I want to thank you for posting up the free blue prints for this batch box heater!! Very detailed and complete as far as batch box maybe you could add the back half as far as your riser and by-pass under your barrels. Thank you once again for your efforts and your channel. Gary B
Gary B, you are most welcome. What I have has been shared. When we contracted this project, we did not realize it would resonate so strongly with people, and were busy with earthworks projects, planting projects, and farming tasks. We did not think to fully catalog the build in all its phases, unfortunately. In any event, we hope what we have shared can empower you and others to get started on your own RMH projects, and we wish you well in your endeavors. Thanks for watching!
thanks...doing a weekend binge watching on rocket stoves....yours is very nice looking
Thanks for watching!
I love this design. As someone who likes to bake, for home use, I would add a second box above the batch box for an oven. With the fire heat and heat of the riser it would be great. It would just be a matter of experimenting with temps and stages of the heat.
Easy solution is an inline blower to start the draft. The one I saw was a 10 minute timer so start the fire, hit the button and an inline fan kicks off drawing through the system for 10 minutes.
Like mentioned elsewhere , J tubes are simpler and cheaper,but the Batch Box gives you several advantages, bigger fuel, quicker warm up, more time between fueling and easier to incorporate an oven, not that it couldn`t be done with a J tube. When people ask me about my Batch Box ,I tell them that I`ll never be cold again ( then the explanation begins)
All good points, Rob. We have certainly enjoyed the performance of our's, and it sounds like you have had a good experience as well. Thanks for watching and joining the conversation!
Thanks for the information ,very helpful
Re fire building you need to create space between the pieces of kindling to let the air and flames get through them . Put each piece in at a slightly different angle . The way you do it here its just like putting on two or three large logs not a load of kindling
Totally agree... Many comments to that fact in this video. Grant was a newbee to this at the time, but now, 6 years later, and in MT Winters, we are fire starting experts. Thanks!
Sorry , have had a look at the other comments ...you must be fairly tired of answering that one
I just built a Rocket Stove Similar to yours but Without the Mass.
It works Great!
As I expected from all the Vids. I've watched the Tank is the part that heats up ( top portion) and the exhaust stove pipe is relatively cool (hasent exceeded 200 degrees.)
It seems to me that if your going to add mass to absorb the heat and radiate it, you would build the mass around the tank.. 300 to 500 degrees. (so far hasn't gotten hotter than that)
Glad you are enjoying your rocket stove! From my understanding, as it was explained to me by folks with more experience, building too much mass up around the barrel begins to effect the performance of the heat riser and cycling of the air inside the barrel chamber, due to the insulation the mass causes around the barrel. This could lead to poor performance in the rocket stove.
Terrific video! Thanks for sharing.
Zero, thanks! What are you doing with RMH's? I am hoping to build on our RMH video, by going behind the scenes on the build out. Lots of video to pour through and edit, so I'm thinking Fall unveiling. All the best!
Can you please show in detail how the riser connects and is welded or not to the batch box. Thanks for your great generosity in shearing your information with the world. God Bless
Joe,
I am working through some video footage to try and edit for a more informative build how-to. It is extensive and honestly above my full mechanical capacity. I'm hoping to have something out on the back end of the year. Spring is upon us, and my time is in the field presently. Hang in there.
Nice video!
Thanks for watching, John!
Excellent vid sir. Just subbed.
Thanks Mike. We are trying every week to bring some fun and educational content from the farm. All the best, Tim
You're extinguishing your fire by laying all of those pieces of wood on top of each other edge to edge. Try a cris-crossing pattern, so the kindling at the bottom can work its way through the spaces....must have spaces! ;-)
A first class batch box system.
J-tube style is cheaper and easier.
I still think that, in general, a system without glass will burn more efficiently than a system with glass. But I cannot argue with the numbers that are coming out.
Hi Paul, permies is an awesome site! I agree on the J tube (made a small stove last year), but for larger areas/ longer burn time the batch box looks ideal?
The batch box definitely burns more wood at once, which adds a LOT of convenience. And it makes the system function more like a conventional wood stove, which people understand much better. The downside is that it requires a LOT more work to build.
Yep, even my little metal stove took alot of work, and then it's much more difficult to tweak. Is it that much harder to do a batch rmh when doing the more earthen styles?
The door is the big challenge. You have high temp masonry and/or insulation and you need a door that seals reasonably well. So far, the problem is solved with welding a box around the whole damn thing. Which is a lot more work than a simple j-tube with two bricks over the opening.
I imagined keeping a damper in the 'front', but loading, lighting, and then covering the top of box with hi temp glass?
Can you use another cut in half or 3/4 oil barrel instead of making a batch box? Then just cut a round hole into the vent barrel, slide the batch barrel in and weld them together? One more thing...does the top get hot enough to use it for cooking?
Great video, I do have a question on the by-pass: It appears the by pass is going through the barrel, how are you preventing gases escaping to prevent harmful gasses from coming inside the shop?
Dale, air tight construction combined with thermal stack effect properly venting emissions, leads all gases up and out. have not seen, smelt, or noticed anything otherwise. Thanks
I would like to see a video on how you clean this out if possible please :D
We will do that, though yet to perform such a tasks. We have four clean out access points along the bends in the ducting where we can / could collect any loose debris that slows in the exhausting out process. We can run a vertical chimney brush up the main run to the ceiling and beyond, and if need be, could remove the top half barrel for a master cleaning effort. Yet to perform this last tasks. Thanks!
it looks great. I was wondering how long a load of wood lasts. Compared to a conventional wood stove i realize you get more heat but it seems like the wood is burning more furiously..
It is burning "furiously" but the "mass" absorbs that heat and slowly releases it so you don't have to keep the fire going...
Looks great, I'd like to put one into my home. Can you please send me quick drawing of the stove and piping before it goes into your insulated chimney. Thanks
Doug, visit our website abcacres.com, and drop your email in my contact page, and will send what we have.
Thanks ABC, I'm really looking forward to building a variation of this!
Just a few questions please? Who designed yours? How full can it be effectively loaded? How long will it burn per batch?
Jay, glad to hear it. Rick Edwards designed our RMH, with consulting input from Peter Van Den Berg(sp?), Ernie and Erica Wisner, and one other innovator fellow. Note, these consultants were all teachers at Paul Wheaton's RMH Innovators Workshop. The batch box can be filled rather fully, but having a couple inch gap on each side will allow for good airflow. How long it burns depends on the size and type of wood you put in you batch box, but I would say our fully-loaded batch box will average 60-75 minutes of strong burn time per batch.
How do you deal with creosote buildup on the burn chamber? Does it just burn off? If so, can you burn green wood without the normal creosote problems? Thanks!
Great info what if you are not qualified to weld do you guys sell systems already made and how small a system can be built??Thanks again for the great video and knowledge.
Not a welder either. Had ours built from square one. contact us on our website, and I'll send what plans we have.
I'm thinking that instead of fabricating the batch box I could pick up an airtight and cut the back off of it and retrofit it to the system??? Then fabricate the U shaped firebrick out of refractory cement. There's always someone selling a used stove for a couple hundred around here.
Bill, I think that is a viable plan, and a good use of one's disposable time and dollar. Take some pics along the way and keep us apprised.
Hi I take it the flame drawing in to heat exchanger ignites the wood gases
yep!
Hi , is the P channel directed to bottom of the heat riser ?
What are the fuel limitations? One of the appeals of an RMH was that I have seen many burn dried pine. I have lots of pine but not much hardwood. Dried pine work well or does it cause creosote problems?
We've had no issues with pine, we do clean out periodically but it's nothing you can't handle.
Think! It's about how much heat draws up chim
I like this idea of the stove and how clean it is. I would like to know how long does it burn when you fill it up?
Mike, a lot depends on wood type and how you set the wood in the batch box, etc. However, Our average burn time when it is fully loaded is between 50 to 75 minutes. Usually in the 65 minute range.
Grant, great video! I wanted to ask is the top of the batch box open? and if so, why?
No it has a window, not necessary just fun to watch fire.
Hi guys, so I've been looking into rocket mass heaters for a couple years now. My problem is, I built a smaller house. 1000 sqft up and 1000 sqft down. I don't have the room for a big old mass heater AND here in northern WI the insurance company's don't approve of having material burning stoves in the house. ( yes I can have them in the house but I got to give them more money ) SO a outdoor boiler system 35 feet away from the house is cool with them. I've got PEX in the basement slab and garage. Someday when I built my shop it will be in there too ( I was already planning on a boiler ) of some type. Where was I going here.... oh yeah! Out door rocket stove boiler! Any one have any experience with something like that!?
Dan, it's always the man saying what we can and can't do huh? I'm sure there's a way to make it work but it's not my area of expertise. I recommend checking out www.richsoil.com Paul and the Folk's at wheaton lab have done a lot of interesting things with rocket stoves.
Dan, let me know what you find out. I too have a place in northern WI with 1000 up and 1000 down and am looking into heating options. Mass heater would work if I could put it into the basement, but don't know if it would be sufficient down there.
Tony, best i have found is lots of prototypes the diy kind. Of course everyone says they work awesome because they built it them self. I have a prototype that im not super happy with, it works but just not as efficient as i think it should be. I luck out and have heavily wooded property so its a cross of rocket stove with a burn box. I need to do some playing on the depth of where the fuel is and the opening to the double burn chamber thing... and auto damper to try to get a longer burn without me babysitting it. Tricky getting the garage freed up in the winter tho because the wife likes not needing to clean off her car after it snows out. I'll try to be more help when i actually hook it up to the house.
Dan There are a few wood burning boilers see: th-cam.com/video/YtKZGKGH-EM/w-d-xo.html and others. Most of these use a down draft thru the wood, coals, and wood gas burning using a fan driven heated air to combust the wood gas. I'm working on a naturally aspirated rocket stove. and hope to have full plans available in the early fall of 2019.
vlbrady1@gmail.com for more info. thank you Vaughn
PS I'm Tailoring it to 600-1600 sq ft living space in the north USA
coll vid!
Thanks for watching!
Hi. Very good the stove! Congratulation! You could share me those plans?! Please. (I don't speak english, sorry) thank you. Greetings from Argentina
just visit our website abcacres.com and leave ur email.
THANK YOU ¡¡¡¡¡
I have enjoyed the rocket stove in our cabin near Libby. Question do you know RL from Plains or Tompson Falls ?
Sorry Jim, I don't know those initials... why do you ask?
Yrs ago, RL was very sick, living in north eastern Alaska. I was coming outside for the winter months. I offered RL a ride out to Plains. long story short lost contact after many yrs. Wonder if he still lives.
How has the stove held up.
Any changes you would have done.
Still strong and no complaints. Some wear on the cob bench needs attention but the engine keeps firing away.
Isnt there any way to hide the drum in a stone wall in the construction plans of the front dinning area just for beauty sake?
Margaret, I have never seen that done. Paul Wheaton has a beautiful stainless steel drum in his living room that is a show piece and point of conversation. The drum will get extremely hot when firing properly, so peeling would be a major concern/hazard. Thanks!
ABC acres Thank you.
Yes please send me a Email and I will send you a picture.
vlbrady1@gmail.com thank you Vaughn
Can you send me the plans on how to build the batch box mass heater. Thanks
visit abcacres.com and leave email in contact page
any plans to use a rocket mass heater in the house as well?
Rick, you are fighting what is legal and what is not. I'm certain on an active UL Listed RMH for purposes of code nor insurance acceptance. Until then, the shop is where it will remain. Thanks, Tim
I'm interested in getting a set of plans... had contacted you earlier, but lost the reply.
Randy, please resubmit your email address via our website contact page abcacres.com
all geared up for a high burn . what about a low efficient burn
It can do that but that's not what it's designed for, since the quick burn creates heat that's stored in the cob bench and then slowly released we can let it burn out and still get heat without constantly stoking the fire.
What was the estimate cost of building the heater and bench?? Also how long did it take to build??
Kevin, the cost of our build for everything, including paying for the batch box plans, consultation from some RMH innovator experts, all materials, and labor was around $7200. The designer/builder said that the build would go for $12-$15K in a market like Portland, OR where RMHs are permitted(although, Portland is an area where most things cost more as well). The time of the build lasted several weeks. It was the builder's first batch box build, and he is a perfectionist, so extra time went into detail and learning for his sake for future builds. Materials probably accounted for about 1/3 of the building cost, so a knowledgable DIY-er could build one for significantly less, in the $2300-ish range. Thanks for watching!
Good INfo.. and Visuals.. but Plz give me the drawings shows the measurements and materials. I would love to work on it in my home....
Go to abcacres.com/contact-us/ and fill out the form, and we can send the jpegs to you!
Watching a different posting of yours on this system you stated that your exhaust goes straight up and out over the barn and emits CO2 and water...…. Being a farm, why not construct a green house for winter crops and duct the CO2 exhaust in to the green house to enhance growth and not waste it to the atmosphere as you are doing and then monitor the CO2 levels in the green house to optimize for the growth of what ever you decide to grow as a winter crop. Too much CO2 in an enclosed area would be poisonous to humans though.....a thought to keep in mind, so if optimal CO2 for growth exceeds that...you'd need a sealed air mask and tank to do work in the green house unless you vented out to a safe level.....with due consideration you only burn and generate CO2 for a short time. Its a question of how long the CO2 concentration would linger in the green house and how fast the plants could convert it to oxygen in the photosynthesis process...….where the balance would or could be...…...not letting anything go to waste
Is there somewhere to buy this ?
Could this be scaled down for smaller applications?
Thanks
Rocket Mass Heaters can be scaled down from this. This is an 8" system, meaning the exhaust pipe winding through the cob bench is 8" in diameter. You can use a 6" system, which would decrease the size of the bench run you are able to effectively charge with heat by roughly 33%, which may or may not be small enough for your purpose. Thanks for watching!
1timby: Mine is a free-standing J-tube unit, 6 inch. I scaled up from a 4 inch. A batch box needs at least an 8 inch. Rockets need to breathe to be efficient and clean burning. The bigger the burn chamber, the bigger the flue. Try to keep the cross sectional area consistent throughout.
Does this require any Cleaning from creosote. if so how do clean it or pipes in bench. Thanks
No creosote build-up, and thus no creosote cleanup needed in a properly designed and installed RMH. The only cleaning needed is a once or twice annual cleaning of a little ash in the turn-around points of the piping/exhaust run, which consists of removing the clean-out caps, inserting our shop-vac hose, and vacuuming out the little bits of ash. In all honesty, 5-10 minutes of cleaning maintenance annually!
ABC acres I would be very careful in suggesting that creosote will not be an issue. Airflow is one of several technical issues that must be addressed in your design and what species and moisture content is present in each type of wood being used as fuel.
Each species of wood will burn at different thermal temperatures, which in turn determines air flow velocity and just as concerning, heat transfer (BTU) rate.
Woods like Douglas Fir, Cedar and RedWood are dammed if you do and double dammed if you do. That is, burn slow, "cold" fire or burn red hot and high velocity. And once these types of wood get ultra hot (900+ F) airflow has to be slowed down. Smoke / creosote will be the result.
There really isn't any difference between an ordinary (well engineered) home fireplace with front screen / vent or modern "airtight" units and these external design "rocket" units. The physics are the same. Creosote is a problem in many home fireplaces because the fire simply is not managed properly.
Doug, you point is well taken. With the three cleanouts and visual on the chimney outflow, we will maintain a level of check-up along the way. Time, use and monitoring will showcase how pure these units burn for safety and satisfaction. Thanks
What material did you use to insulate the firebox and the heat riser?
Riser is constructed of 1" High-Heat type Duraboard, cut into an octagon shape and adhered together with a ceramic bonding agent. The riser is then wrapped in 1" Dura-blanket. The firebox has fire brick with the steel casing. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for answering. So you have 2 inches of ceramic insulation on the heat riser. Do you think I can avoid the blanket and have just 1 inch of the ceramic board? Would that be enough? I just want to keep the costs down.
You're welcome. Totally understand in wanting to keep costs down. I believe the blanket insulation is necessary, as it helps to create a larger temperature variation between the inside and outside of the heat riser, which increases the performance of the system significantly. My recommendation would be to do both, although you could test its performance without, and add it later if you find it is needed. I have a feeling you will end up wanting the blanket, though.
gugaiz: I have discovered that as much heat as possible must go into the riser. Heat emanating from the burn chamber into the room steals heat from the riser, reducing it's efficiency, and making a dirtier burn.
I built my free-standing J-tube unit on the cheap too. total cost was around $350. The most expensive materials were the insulated firebrick (IFB) at $50 for a dozen. Yet it is this brick that makes my stove rock. Its very light, and can be cut with an old wood handsaw. I made the burn chamber and riser from it.
Why wouldn't you put a grate in for ash removal?
An ash grate would potentially disrupt the concentrated airflow from the intake, across the burning wood, and into the burn barrel and heat riser. We easily clean out the small amounts of residual ash after every 3-4 burns with a custom-made raking tool, leaving a pristine batch box burn chamber for out heating pleasure. Thanks for the question, and for watching!
I think Peter van Berg originated this style but not credited though.
James,
You are correct. The man we contracted with to build it took Peter's workshops. He modified the design as you will note, and we could n't be happier with the results.
Rocket heater scientist and you can't start a fire ha-ha ;)
Haha! Burn! Or, not burn so well:) I definitely do not profess to be a scientist or expert, but it is a bit humbling to have what was honestly one of my worst fire starts with this unit. I was a bit too focused on the talking/filming, I think. Live and learn!
I was waiting to say something till someone else did, haha, a boyscout he is not! Shouldn't he understand how fire works before building such a thing? hehe :)
Mickey Bauer cut the poor guy some slack! He seems like a very humble individual who obviously knows his stuff. I would love to be able to learn more about his very nice work!
Is that ordinary glass you are using ?
It is a tempered glass specific to a max burn temperature. Such a product would be available in most communities. Thanks!
ABC acres: Is is Pyroceram? It's not cheap but eBay has a few vendors that do sell for less.
If I could get one of these that looked like a traditional masonry heater then I’d be happy. I really don’t like the appearance of most rocket mass heaters.
Hello, great job, but humhum to start your fire, do you know the "top-down" method. Sorry for my english. An example : th-cam.com/video/Nr4dQO1qmcQ/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for sharing!
permaculture. can you please say. why you do not answer peoples comments. is it too tiring?
We answer most comments, but we do have a farmstead to manage, that can keep us away from our computers, I know lame right, imagine how many kitten videos we've missed....
I consider my balls a thermal mass.
Aren't you lucky!
I consider my wife's purse a thermal mass. That is where my balls are stored.
Please tie your shoes
When you're as good as Grant was you don't need shoelaces...
Plans please. peter@corptel.co.za
Paul Wheaten is a dushy bagel , He should not get any credit on RMH or make any monies off other peoples work!!!! Just an FYI.
Thanks for the heads up, we'll keep that in mind.
Another fake news; you don't even know how to light a wood fire !!!
Live is full of teachable moments. Do you mock, or do you educate? The decision is all yours.
@@abcacres6413
Very nicely put.