No. Luke didn't go to have a simple conversation. No. Luke didn't go with murderous intent. Yes, Luke did intend to confront him, gave into his emotions for a split second.. and regretted. Yes. Ben woke up at the exact wrong time.
"Oh shit Ben heyyyyy! Oh what am I doing with my lightsaber ignited? Why it's for you of course yes! You have come to far into your training and I am so proud of you so I decided to give you mine. Yes... that's what I was doing! Happy birthday!"
Whenever Skywalkers are given a glimpse of the future, they impulsively try to prevent it. And in doing so, they make things much worse. Anakin first with his mother, he was too late to save her. So naturally he overreacted when he was given a similar glimpse of Padme dying in childbirth. Luke was given a glimpse of Han and Leias misery in empire strikes back. Then he tries to go and save them and he's too late. Han is taken, Leia and the others would've been held captive (if it wasn't for the acts Lando) Luke then fights a fight he is unprepared for, loses his hand an attempts to commit suicide. Luke here is shown the dark side of Kylo Ren and his instinct was to prevent it but he felt ashamed that he turned his weapon on his own Nephew. But then Kylo does exactly what Luke had envisioned. So by Luke isolating himself, he figured that the best solution was to go against his impulsiveness and not be involved. He also couldn't bring himself to kill his own nephew. He failed in his attempt to save him. But then used the last bit of his life to save Leia at the end of the Last Jedi because he knew she was the only hope to bring him back to the light.
Even with all the points you make about Skywalkers screwing up from visions, why would Luke not try to fix his screwup and stop Kylo? Why would he just let it happen again, doing nothing to prevent the carnage he had just unleashed upon the galaxy? To quote Mark Hamill "A Jedi doesn't give up"
@@stephenbrenchley8104 Why did Kenobi give up on Anakin? He did so because Anakin indicated to him that the their relationship was irrecoverably broken. That's why he leaves him to die in agony in III instead of putting him out of his misery which is rather horrific if you stop to think about it. If Luke chases after Ben, and Ben cannot be swayed back to the Light (their encounter on Crait doesn't give me much hope that Kylo would have been receptive to Luke's intervention, their relationship is similarly broken), then eventually he will be faced with the same choice as Kenobi: Kill him, maim him horrifically, or die by his hand. Luke thought he had overcome his darkness 30 years ago on the Death Star until his slip with Ben in the tent. Remember, there isn't just the soul of Ben at stake, there is also Luke's. If Ben draws those negative emotions out of Luke, but this time Luke loses control and kills him then his eventual fall to the Darkside (like Anakin's after killing the Tuskan Raiders) is almost assured. The black mark on his heart would grow until it consumed him.
@GuardianOwl Kenobi thought he killed Anakin. He literally didn't give up. He left him to die. He wasn't going to strike a defenseless man, and Padme needed urgent medical care.
What I would do differently is show more flashbacks to Solo's descent into darkness and to show more context of the night Ben fell to the dark side. I would have the scene open with Luke training Ben but as time goes on he would become more aggressive with his training. Luke would go talk with Ben but he sees he's sleeping so he decides to wait till tomorrow but he then feels a dark presence coming from Ben. He checks on Ben but then we see glimpses of horrible things happening and then Luke would open his eyes and sees his lightsaber ignited in his hand so it would have been from fear rather than his own choice and then Ben wakes up.
You are right my friend, I have been saying this forever. If we had been shown a bit of what Luke saw and had him ignite the saber without thinking of it (I know he says its instinct but doing it with eyes closed would portray that better), then I would have been left with far less questions about why Luke would consider killing his sleeping nephew.
It didn't need that. It would negate the whole point of the scene. The point was very Rashamon, it's less about the overall context and more about crafting THIS moment. Too much context ruins the mysterious nature of this event and the unbiased reality. Seeing Kylos fall wasn't the point, it's showing how Luke's impulse was the X Factor for his decisions and Kylos. This moment WASN'T meant to reaffirm the turn, it was the cast doubt.
@@Zombie_Trooper I think it could have been both. Maybe start the movie with a flashback of their training in order to give more context about their relationship, but in a way that could make uncertain how Luke would act next, and then during the film show the flashbacks of the moment in the Rashmon style.
Yeah exactly like, actually show what Luke is seeing when he peers into Ben's mind. We hear very little auditory sounds and I guess we are left to come up with something with our own imagination. But it would be so much more powerful if we actually saw glimpses, like you said, of everything Luke saw.
One of the few good ideas from the last jedi. Using the classic line "from a certain point of view" and showing Kylo's view, Luke's and finally the truth of it all in this situation was pritty good.
I personally dont like the fact that Luke would even consider killing Ben even for a moment. he would always see the light in people. Its just not Luke Skywalker to me. However I have to admit, the dialogue or I guess monologue is cool as fuck in this flashback
That's a HUGE misconception. Luke wasn't a saint that saw the light in people. It was HIS FATHER. That's why he wanted to save him. His connection with his FATHER.
@@hen913why wouldn’t he have a connection with the son of his sister and best friend? One he actually knew, watched grow up, mentored for years and hadn’t done anything wrong of significance? Luke says he fears for everything he loved - Ben, being his nephew, should be one of those people that he loves. He shouldn’t get as far as igniting his lightsaber.
I totally get why people didn't like Luke's actions here, hell I'd have kept this whole scenario out of the film...But it's in there and I've made peace with the reasoning. The idea that an adrenaline filled Luke who was coming down from a trippy Force vision, ignited his saber out of fear before coming to his senses seems plausible. In A New Hope Obi-Wan says the Force partially controls your actions...and I think that's what happened here, Luke acted on instinct and it made him ignite his saber, just like Obi-Wan did on Mustafar...before Luke came back to his senses. Whether you like or dislike this scene, pretending it makes no sense is childish, the details in Luke's final version are what happened*
So, you basically injected your headcanon and contrived reasons to excuse asinine writing ? Pretending these excuses give it sense seems sillier, but whatevs...
@@DanieleMulas-up7np Or...and hear me out...I watched the same movie as you but arrived to different conclusions to you and gave it the Ok based on Luke's VO. I agree this whole Nearly killing Ben thing is a shitty thing to do to Luke's character, making him do cowardly actions but, despite you saying "a vague vision" we don't actually know what he saw and we can only guess how much it f***ed him up, he's literally shaking when the vision ends. We've seen how strong visions are in Star Wars, we just saw Rey's in the previous film, I'm not saying your wrong for hating the direction they took but from how you've responded to me and any others who kinda see what RJ was at leats going for, I feel what really bothers you is you wish it's head canon where it's actually just...canon.
@@StarWarsStory The matter of fact is, he gave a chance to a murderous, cold cyborg, on the basis that he still believed there was good in him and that he was his father. But, apparently, his nephew, the son of his best friend and twin sister, whom he trained and groomed since he was 9 or 10, just because he had Darth Smeagol talking to him telepathically , was beyond any salvation ? Say what you will about Force visions, but it's not like Anakin outright went to kill Tusken Raiders or Obi Wan, just because they were associated to his mother or Padme being in pain. So yeah, using a quote from an older movie, when RJ himself didn't care about canonicity but only about themes, to defend an otherwise nonsensical plotpoint, is contrived. "Canon" be damned, if it's Disney, where they claim one thing in a source, then retcon it somewhere else. I'll take the successful Jedi Master who married a former Imperial spy and successfully rebuilt the Jedi Order, over the fearful pathetic old man who almost killed his nephew, without attempting to talk some sense to him first. This discussion is over. It's clear we're at an impasse.
@@DanieleMulas-up7np Dude you're contradicting yourself. You just admitted to understanding that Anakin wasn't planning to kill all the Tuskens, he reacted badly to not saving his mother and took revenge...Yet when Luke goes in to check the Ben situation you'll pretend he always planed on killing him rather than, like his father, react badly, in this case to a vision. It's like you saw Kylo's version of what happened and ignored the 3rd one. The Key difference between Luke & Anakin is Luke stopped himself, Anakin never did. By the way saying Discussion over is the equivalent of hiding, you're happy to state your opinion but don't want to hear anyone else's. You can take the Legends over Canon, so accept other people will feel opposite. This discussion is open.
@@StarWarsStory Uhmmm No, Anakin had his vision BEFORE going on a murder spree, all he wanted was to check on his mother and save her. Her dying in his arms is what triggered his reaction. Whereas Luke outright went for his lightsaber IN THE MIDDLE of the vision, and never attempted to wake him up to ask if there was something troubling him. Talk any sense to him. Anakin might have killed the Tusken Raiders, but Luke's action doomed the whole galaxy. How was I contraddicting myself ? You're twisting my words, if anything. I'm simply saying we're at an impasse because this conversation is gonna be nothing but circling around excuses and contrived explanations that have been used and debunked already in so many videos or forums, and there's no real point in doing that. It does no good to either of us. To you, it's just gonna take away time that you could spend in putting together good videos. And to me, it's not gonna improve my opinion of this pathetic film nor give convincing explanations for an out-of-character choice, done for the sake of referencing Kurosawa at the expense of coherent storytelling. Let alone, original, as it's yet another "fallen prodigy student killed everyone else to join the Empire, and his Master went in exile" plot, but in a more contrived, depressing, bleak, and nihilistic key. Feel free to reply, of course, but I've had this conversation with others, and it didn't really go anywhere that was thought provoking or constructive, sadly...
@@grimlord3181 If Han were in that bedroom and saw Luke just put his lightsaber in his hand, Han would've blastered his own brother-in-law in the head and never stopped firing.
I love this scene. It shows parallels of Luke to both Anakin and Luke's own younger self, but shows that while Luke did still sometimes think impulsively, he didn't make the decision immediately after thinking about it. A younger Luke may have tried to kill Kylo, Anakin definitely might have tried as well, but this Luke is a much wiser Jedi now that he was in the originals and far more insightful than his father ever was, so even though the idea crossed his mind, it didn't stay there or become an impulse to action. But most of all, it shows that Luke is human and can make mistakes, just like any of us. He made a mistake here, and that mistake was what set the whole conflict over the edge. Mark Hamill himself said he imagines this Luke as the man who worked until he had a happy life, and had a family, but that family fell apart indirectly because of his actions. This scene perfectly matches with that idea of Luke- he made a mistake and that cost him everything. Dislike the sequel trilogy all you want and how Luke's story was treated, but I think it shows that Luke is human.
Would YOU ever contemplate murdering your nephew in his sleep? If you say yes I would consider introspection because thats a pretty shitty thing to consider. Luke is a human and makes mistakes, but he would never do that.
To those of you saying "That's so out of character for Luke, he would never do that!", just remember how he reacted when Vader threatened to turn Leia to the Dark Side.
@@splashnskillz37 See that's why this movie was executed so badly. We shouldn't HAVE to read anything else to like this movie. They should explain all the back story and include the character development in the movie.
While I still highly disagree with The Last Jedi, this is quite impressive. Very interesting combination of the three perspectives, helps sum up the "real truth" more thoroughly.
My primary issue with Luke in The Last Jedi is that I think it’s completely out of his character for him to sneak into Ben’s hut while he was sleeping, and go as far as to ignite his lightsaber over his unarmed nephew. I don’t mind a storyline where Luke becomes disillusioned with the Jedi, but the reason that the film gives is totally unbelievable to me. Wouldn’t Luke try talking to Ben first? Try reaching him on a personal level? This isn’t just some random student, this is his nephew, the son of his sister and best friend. I can’t believe Luke wouldn’t be more cautious while dealing with this specific student. If Rian Johnson wanted Luke and Ben to clash sabers in this conflict, I think it would’ve been much better to have it happen during Ben’s training. Luke even says that he sensed darkness in Ben during his training. The flashback could’ve shown Ben going too far, and Luke having no choice but to take up arms. The fact that Luke willingly put himself in the position to essentially hold a loaded weapon over his unarmed, sleeping nephew doesn’t sit well with me. I would’ve preferred more context than a mere minute and a half long flashback for such a drastic, offscreen change in Luke’s character.
I do believe this scene needed more context like Luke sensing aggression in Ben training and fighting style or something but to say Luke wouldn't Ignite his blade against his unarmed nephew is something I would disagree. There have been multiple times throughout the original trilogy where Luke fear and anger gets the best of him. I mean that how Vader manipulated him into coming to cloud city with the death and tortured of his friends, the emperor does the same thing to probe Luke to try to kill the emperor (an unarmed old man) only to be stop by Vader. I would go far and say that Luke actually hesitated and stop is progress for the character 😂😂
He literally says in this scene that he was just going there to talk to Ben about the darkness building inside of him. Luke wasn't planning on attacking Ben in his sleep, but the Force showed him part of what Kylo would become, and it made him ignite his saber instinctively out of fear. It'd be like suddenly realizing someone you live with is a serial killer, it'd scare the shit out of you. But then he comes to his senses realizing it hasn't happened yet and he shouldn't give in to his fears, but it's too late. Even though Luke is wise, he is still human. He nearly gives in to fear and hatred multiple times in the original trilogy, this isn't against his character in the slightest.
For the people saying that this is out of character for Luke is quite ridiculous. Luke acts on instinct here, especially fear. Just like when he lashed out at vader in return of the Jedi. When someone threatens what he loves his defenses rise and he wants to end it there and then, giving in to the hate. It’s a fault in his character that reoccurred here to show that Luke has never been perfect.
Oh yes, attack your father who is a Sith Lord with power and weapon, who killed millions, trapped you in corner and threatens your sister is the same thing as attack your nephew who just sleeps and sees bad dream...25 years after you spared your father's life and sacrificed yours to save him...Best comparison ever.
Your analysis forgets about luke ultimately overcoming that character flaw when he throws his lightsaber away and refuses to kill his father. That was the big difference between luke and anakin. When anakin was faced with the fear of losing his loved omes he succumbed to his impulses and turned, when luke cut off faders mechanical hand and looked at his own fake hand he realized he was going down the same path and stopped himself, ultimately mastering his passions and becoming a Jedi. This is why rian johnsons movie is complete shit. It retcons a three movie arc demonstrating luke overcoming the same character flaw that claimed his father.
Vader was one of the most evil men in the galaxy and was actively threatening Lukes sister. Ben was lukes fucking nephew man. He was sleeping. How would Luke EVER contemplate that? Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
All the replies under this post are forgetting some things. This Luke never intended to kill Ben. He said he went to "confront it". Only *after* he's seen visions of a possible future did he ignite his saber. Idk if y'all know how pretty powerful visions are as described in spiritual text and teachings. So it makes sense why he would give in for a moment. The scene is definitely different from ESB but still echoes the same thoughts.
@@REChronic54 First of all, he already learned his lesson in ESB - don't panic of visions. Second, if he suspected nothing, why did he go to Ben at the middle of the night? And if he did suspect darkness in him, he should be ready to face it. How powerful visions are? They didn't even show what he saw! And whatever it was, it didn't happen yet. Vader already did worse, and yet Luke saved him. And no, thinking about killing someone is one thing, raise your hand and activate lightsaber is another level.
I like the scene because it actually feels like a natural part of Luke's character being used at its fullest against him to create a believable conflict.
I've sort of come around to Luke's arc in TLJ, I just wish that they had spent more time on it. If I had a time machine and a powerful position in Lucasfilm, I would made Rian split TLJ into 2 movies, one focusing on Luke/Rey/Kylo and one focusing on the Rebellion. There are so many extenuating circumstances going into this moment, but you need to read the books in order to know them and you shouldn't have to.
@@girlysword I think that if the Sequel Trilogy was filmed back to back, and was helmed by one filmmaker, it would have been a much more cohesive story.
Exactly!! It shows how he's human and can make mistakes. I enjoyed The Last Jedi when it first came out, but I enjoy it much more in the context of the entire sequel trilogy. The story needed to be rounded out to make more sense, and I think The Rise of Skywalker did just that.
Want irony? Before the prequels. Vader/Anakin was loved and untouchable. Then the prequels came, were bashed, and many fans declared Vader has been permanently destroyed due to young Anakin in the three films. Flash forward to the sequels, and the same thing happened to Luke, with fans declaring Og Luke has permanently been destroyed. Also true about both preq Anakin and seq Luke? These versions are *actually* more accurate to their respective legacies than fans want to think. The only difference is enough time has passed for fans to get over the issues of the prequels and have come to finally see the good in them. Heres to hoping in 10 years, the same happens for the sequels.
We don't argue that Luke should be perfect. We argue that his character should be consistent. Luke from OT would never attack his nephew in his sleep and leave everyone die. If they wanted to show how he fell, they needed to do at least a movie about that.
@@Сайтамен He did almost kill Vader a few times in ep 6. And that was with verbal hypothetical threats and not a vivid vision of solid events that could very well happen. If anything, only igniting his saber before catching himself after seeing such a stronger threat shows growth. If Luke came to the conclusion that jedi are the cause of the galaxy's worst problems and by extention himself causing the current issues after 20 years of being a jedi, then I think it makes sense that his solution being removing himself from the picture.
@@CritStanley Oh yes, attack your father who is a Sith Lord with power and weapon, who killed millions, trapped you in corner and threatens your sister is the same thing as attack your nephew who just sleeps and sees bad dream...25 years after you spared your father's life and sacrificed yours to save him...Best comparison ever. It's like pick a knife over your family because you were angry...And even worse, after Kylo escaped, he just let everyone die...
@@Сайтамен Saw a dream? Luke looked into Ben's mind and was bombarded by his future. It's been shown in lore AND the main films that these force visions aren't just watching events as if a cutscene. They are visceral, intense, at times, overwhelming. Just look what happened to Yoda, a trained jedi master with hundreds of years of practice of maintaining emotions, when Order 66 happened. Luke was hit with multiple order 66 level visions when he looked into Ben's mind. And all without Yoda's years of emotional training. It wasn't like Luke was pulling aknife on a family member in anger. At the moment Luke first woke back up from the vision, it was as if Ben had ALREADY done all of that. Thus, Luke wasn't seeing him as Ben, he was seeing him as Kylo Ren. Luke was pulling a knife on a family member who had just murdered everyone.
@@Сайтамен You may counter that by his age, Luke should have been better able to control his emotions. Sure, but not by much. Luke hadn't found the ancient Jedi texts yet. He had not anyone to train him post ep6. He had grown and matured to the point that igniting his saber snapped him back to reality, much faster than with Vader. But really, the fact that everyone expects more from him with what he got after 6 is kinda why Luke hated himself so much. Luke expected of himself what all the fans did. If you're all so mad and hateful about this, kinda makes sense that Luke would be the way he was in the beginning of Last Jedi
People who defending Luke´s action in here. Even Mark Hamill himself said, that this is not the Luke Skywalker he used to play. I mean, i didn´t expected a character like Luke trying to kill someone in his sleep.
Why is it every time I watch this scene I think that it's Oscar Issac sleeping for a split second before I remember that it's Adam Driver? They look nothing alike when they're awake!
Way to kill a franchise Disney, this movie is complete bullshit; Oh, hi Dad, who permanently injured me, tortured my sister, and murdered countless innocents, including my childhood friends, and surrogate parents: "I STILL SENSE GOOD IN YOU!" Oh, hi nephew, son of my beloved sister, whom I am confident I will lead by example in the light side of the force, based on my self sacrificial and heroic legacy after the galactic liberation, and at this time of prosperity without the Empire: "I HAVE A BAD FEELING! TIME TO DIE!"👿💀
"I mean he basically had his lightsaber on..so Kylo was right." Forget the fact he was basically had to stop himself from murdering his father in his rage.. But yeah Luke stopping himself in the heat of the moment based on Force premonitions.. totally gonna murder his nephew NO QUESTIONS ASKED.
His dad was quite literally responsible for mass genocide. He also cut off his hand and tried to kill Luke numerous times and just threatened his sister and they were in active combat. Meanwhile Ben is just an edgy teenager who didn’t actually anything wrong at that point. And that Luke is was decades younger. There’s no excuse for this
@@jeyrey9835 Jedi who’s entire existence is based on premonition and emotions and feeling etc.. saw a vision. He went to do it and stopped himself. You all act as though he was going in guns blazing. Shoot now ask questions later. Like he didn’t have a lapse in judgment. As though he had ravenous murderous intent with no speck of mercy.
@@bauer0788 “Always in motion the future is” -Yoda. Do jedi often has premonitions? Yes. Are they always accurate? Hell no. ESB Luke is quite literally confronted with consequences of acting without thought due to premonitions when he loses him hand. This is a lesson Luke should already be familiar with. Besides that, why is he going to do it to begin with? That’s straight bs. That lapse is judgement is something is against Luke’s character. Pulling the blicky on HIS SISTER’S SON while he’s asleep is soo stupid and out of line. The fact that he was sensing all this dark side shit in Ben for weeks and goes into his room is dumb already. He should know better then to act on instinct, he should already have trust in the light side of the force considering this is a Luke decades older than the one in the OT
@@bauer0788 if he didn’t act, why is he in Ben’s room standing over him with his lightsaber out? Just cos he didn’t actually strike doesn’t mean he didn’t act
I know that the Last Jedi is hated, but what I always liked is it showed that Luke was really a lot more like Anakin than we originally thought. Most of his life he only knew The Empire and War. This meant he took more drastic measures than most. The huge difference is that Luke didn't have Obi-Wan or Yoda, or anyone to tell him what to do. But this is super sad and dark because Luke thought he could bring the Jedi back, and then one fatal mistake made everything fail.
Even though I like these sequences, one of my problems with them is at the beginning. We hear Luke talk about how he saw darkness, that he sensed it building up within Ben, and seen it in moments during his training. But the issue I have here is that we never actually see that stuff. We are never shown that. And then there is all this talk about how Snoke had already turned Ben's heart to the dark side, but again, we never see it. I think one of my biggest issues with this movie is, it doesn't delve into it's own story enough to make it seem more interesting or make sense (?), I think that's the word? There are so many moments where extra scenes could have added a lot more context to the situation and make a better film. There's dialogue, a lot sometimes, and yet it doesn't leave a well enough impact on the viewer. I would have loved to see more of Luke and Ben's relationship, how they all met and knew about Snoke, and the reaction of key characters to what happened between Luke and Ben, especially Han and Leia. Did Luke tell Han and Leia the truth about what happened in the hut? Or did he just say that Ben murdered most of his students and destroyed the temple? Stuff like this is what the main plot of the movie should have been about. We could either cut down or remove outright the Canto Bight sequence and/or write around that. Cut down on the space chase scene with the Resistance. Keep it in of course, but make the main focal point of the movie about Luke, Ben, Rey, and Snoke.
First of all. We really don't need to see the flashbacks of what force showed Luke. It would convey exactly same thing, bad things happened. This whole sequence is one of the things that made me hate sequel trilogy. We leave original trilogy with Luke in his prime, overcame all the flaws and issues he had as the character and after 30 years (or so) we are back to Tatooine Luke, we see an image of a man trying to kill his relative because he saw a "vision" of Ben becoming next Vader. FFs he saw good in Vader when nobody saw it in him, he believed in Vader and ultimately brought Anakin back, by simply trusting his feeling. Not the force, not people around him, not force ghosts, he trusted in Vader and his own instinct. As far as we know, it could be Snoke/Palpatine sending those visions to Luke. He probably met with Ben Solo already, found out about Luke through their talks and tried to use their emotional/blood connection to turn Ben into Kylo... Which again would show how weak Luke became and how he just turned back to the Tatooine farmer boy... Thats the kind of info we would need as viewer, but simply we never saw any connection between them to care enough, again poor writing... I think it would be much better if it was opposite, Ben starting to see visions, visions that would eventually force him to join the dark side. Same as it was with Anakin. He was not scared of jedi, he got scared of not being strong enough to overcome death to save Padme... which again episode 9 breaks by resurrecting Rey with WOLOLOLO magic XDD. If resurecction/regeneration (as Paplatine and Rey showed ) was possible, why Anakin ever wanted to become Sith if both Jedi and Sith could do it?? Explanation... poor writing Anakin by choosing Dark Side for easy power became everything he swore to destroy and avoid, kinda poetic and shows the true nature of the dark side. Ben joined Dark Side, because the good guys wanted to kill him and thats the message this scene showed, nothing more nothing else. Its as if they wanted to show there is no difference between good and bad.
If TMNT had a much darker ending than the Mutant apocalypse Mikey:I dreamed of horrible darkness in him and I since them during Hiroto training and then I saw everything! (wakes up horrified)😨🤜🔪I knew then that he could not be saved… he would bring destruction, pain and death and the end of everyone I ever loved! For a brief moment of pure instinct 🤛😠🗡I thought I could stop him!!😧🗡and then it passed like a shadow and I was left with shame of what I was going to do and it came at a price (looking at his horrified brothers and then to his nephew) and the last thing I saw where the eyes of a frightened boy who’s family have failed him and with pure hatred and disgust in them Oroku Hiroto:(grabs his sword) Leo:Oroku Hiroto what are you doing?!! (sewers explode)
That could’ve been interesting: Episode seven explains what will trigger the events of the sequel trilogy, maybe even have it so that the heroes lose in almost every way, with episode eight being our introduction to the lead cast, and episode nine playing out like the original Duel of the Fates script, with a few smaller alterations.
A disgrace to the legacy of Luke Skywalker, the jedi master and former padawan of Kenobi and Master Yoda, who took down the Sith Empire, would in reality never have allowed such dark passions and emotions to get the better of him.
This is a good point. George Lucas himself said Star Wars was meant to play out like a documentary of events set in a far away place. Its part of what made the first 3 so engaging. Of course he broke this tradition in the prequels with Anakin's visions, and maybe you can argue the different approach is part of why those movies don't quite feel right.
@@samgilley3160 Well those movies particularly didn't feel right because of the horrible acting and cringey writing, with dialogue, design styles, and CGI that didn't follow the theme of what the original trilogy established. For instance, The Phantom Menace actually resorted to potty humor.
Luke acting like that is normal. You can see the hand he holding the light saber with is mechanical it doesn't have feelings. Then he stops himself brings balance to the force. That's everyday life, ben waking up half way though the action shows how someone could misinterpret something from their point of view, leading him to take action from his point of view. This is why we are supposed to be more civil then animals because we have a voice to communicate with. If you don't use it and jump to conclusions what do you get ben turning to the dark said killing his dad hating his uncle, but as soon as he see a fine piece of tail in distress. He is willing to change his mind. That also is not out of character gets it from his father han risking his neck for Leia.
This is my defense for Luke’s actions. Anakin’s Force visions make him betray The Jedi in Episode 3. Luke’s Force visions make him abandon Yoda and Obi Wan in Episode 5. Rey’s Force visions make her abandon Han, Finn, and BB8 in Episode 7. There’s a very clear pattern here. These visions leave them scared and angry. The response is always to run away or fight. Episode 8 Luke, in my opinion, handles it very well. You can hear Kylo killing people at 0:18 - 0:24. Luke had one of these Force visions and managed to re-gain self control in a matter of seconds.
Last note: Yoda sees the future in the original trilogy, as well as in the prequel trilogy. But he was also trained properly and had been a Jedi for hundreds of years. Anakin, Luke, and Rey received training late into their lives. That’s why I think Yoda is unbothered by visions, whereas the other 3 become broken.
If you make it surface level, then sure. Anakin’s betray is MUCH more than “visions”. Luke’s force visions were of Han and Leia being hurt on Bespin, and being the hero he was he rushed off.
people go ham on this scene for luke trying to kill ben, but think about it. He had felt the darkness taking hold of ben for weeks, and went to confront him about it. He wasn't actively trying to kill him. He saw pain and suffering, and he wanted to end it. His old Jedi instinct kicked in, and he took out his lightsaber, but he immediately felt shameful, even regretting how impulsive he was acting. But, it was too late. Ben saw it as Luke trying to kill him, and the temple was destroyed.
How about confronting him while he’s awake and have an honest discussion instead of propping his nephews mind while he’s asleep? Nahh, this was shady from the start.
Why are they back to front? Luke’s final flashback is put first instead of last, while his first flashback is put last instead of first. Jarring and ruins the effect.
Luke could improvised, when Ben saw him, Luke could quickly turn off his sword and say "nice, you are aware of danger even when sleeping, very good" And Ben be like: "😑.... My mother will know about this"
If Leia can forgive Ben for killing his father, I’m sure she can forgive Luke for ultimately deciding not to kill her son despite seeing the corruption growing inside of him.
character regression. He's already learned this lesson in RoTJ, it's dumb for him to make that mistake and for it to be the reason why his Jedi Order fell and Empire rise again
Lmao,and all of this was later retconed in the kylo ren comic, with the even worse story of palpatine destroying the temple with a lighting bolt, making Ben completely innocent. Disney made something already bad somehow even worse
NONSENSE!! Listen. I have nothing whatsoever against Adam Driver, Daisy, Ridley or John Boyega. They're all terrific actors. But this is in every way, imaginable unrealistic, and completely out of character for Luke Skywalker. He would NOT & NEVER attempt such an act like this, it's not the Jedi way. Maybe Anakin Skywalker would probably have attempted something like this. But Luke? This is total nonsense. This would not even have crossed Luke's mind ever! My girlfriend and I literally walked out of the theater after seeing this, and have not continued with the trilogy any further since. In my own world of Star Wars? These stories never happened and don't happen. They do not exist! The New Republic still remains after return of the Jedi. The Empire never built something called the first order. Not to mention Ben Solo turning to the dark side, really doesn't make any sense in itself. And even if he did, Luke Skywalker wasn't even willing to kill Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker regardless of all the god-awful terrible things they both did. But he's going to kill Han and Leia's son because he's heading in the direction of the Darkside?? No! Certainly Not!! Like how do you not laugh at this?? 🤷🏻♂️ Disney is so stupid! Put to rest. I do love Ahsoka and Mandalorian though. However, Disney also doesn't know how lightsabers work because Sabine should've been dead after that impalement. A Lightsaber is many times hotter than the sun, Not just where tissue where the point of impact was completely vaporized, but the surrounding areas and organs inside would also be fried. I like her, but surviving that Lightsaber impalement was nonsense also, 100%.
THIS. This was the moment that ruin the star wars sequels beyond repair. Luke would never even THINK about killing his own nephew because of a dream. He believed Darth Vader (aka Space Hitler) was redeemable, he would 1000% do more to redeem Ben Solo. But the movies wanted to give him a redemption arc and shoehorn a romance between him and Rey, instead of sticking to the clear trajectory of Kylo's full decent into the dark side. This goes hand in hand with how they screwed over Finn's storyline.
@@grimlord3181 Luke: *Lashes out when Vader threatens to turn Leia to the dark side and only stops when he slices his father’s arm off* Also Luke: *Almost lashes out when he sees the threat of Ben killing his friends, but returns to his senses after he turns his lightsaber on, which causes the sequel trilogy to happen* Yeah. _Totally_ not the same thing.
@@S-Fan2006 It's not. Vader was already evil and would very likely follow up on his threats, and this was during a fight; Kylo was not yet evil and only had potential to do those things, and was ASLEEP.
He said he left with other students who tf are the other wtf happened to them I hate the fact that this movie was so shit they disrespected ma boi Luke
This shouldn't be cannon what a fucking train wreck everything he went through with Vader after all that he senses some bad thoughts and is like there's no saving him what a bunch of clown shoes
Such an interesting idea that was terribly executed. Good story telling isn't telling the audience what happened. It's showing them. It's allowing the audience to journey WITH the characters through what happened. If I'd been the writer of that second movie I would have made a massive chunk of it showing the close bond between Ben and Luke and Ben's reason for his slow by steady fall to the Dark Side and Luke's continued worry and suspicion. That would add SO much context to this final act from Luke. As it was, we got no back story of Ben, no back story for Luke, no back story for Snoke and no back story for the 'handful of Jedi students' who I'm guessing were the Knights of Ren. Very frustrating. Also, I would have given Luke a bad ass redemption arc, his Jedi Master fight and see him get his 'moxy' back again and fight for the return of the Jedi. If it was me, I would have finished the trilogy with Luke the Jedi Master again and Rey his apprentice and they go off to re-build the Jedi again.
![[Sub Thai] APT. - ROSÉ & Bruno Mars](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bYjhzP8x_uc/mqdefault.jpg)
The only time two lightsabers touch in the entire movie
💀
All flashbacks are true, from a certain point of view
true
Here th-cam.com/video/pSOBeD1GC_Y/w-d-xo.html
No. Luke didn't go to have a simple conversation.
No. Luke didn't go with murderous intent.
Yes, Luke did intend to confront him, gave into his emotions for a split second.. and regretted.
Yes. Ben woke up at the exact wrong time.
exactly! 🎉
He says he left with a handful of his students. That never came up again
Somerandom PainTrain they might have become the knights of ren
It's implied that they became the Knights of Ren
It was in the Kylo Ren comic
Would’ve been great if they became the knights of ren but for some reason the comic explains how the knights were already an existing group
@@techno639 yeah... who?
(I know it's in the extended current universe... but it should've been explained and shown in the actual movies)
"Oh shit Ben heyyyyy! Oh what am I doing with my lightsaber ignited? Why it's for you of course yes! You have come to far into your training and I am so proud of you so I decided to give you mine. Yes... that's what I was doing! Happy birthday!"
Whenever Skywalkers are given a glimpse of the future, they impulsively try to prevent it. And in doing so, they make things much worse.
Anakin first with his mother, he was too late to save her. So naturally he overreacted when he was given a similar glimpse of Padme dying in childbirth.
Luke was given a glimpse of Han and Leias misery in empire strikes back. Then he tries to go and save them and he's too late. Han is taken, Leia and the others would've been held captive (if it wasn't for the acts Lando) Luke then fights a fight he is unprepared for, loses his hand an attempts to commit suicide.
Luke here is shown the dark side of Kylo Ren and his instinct was to prevent it but he felt ashamed that he turned his weapon on his own Nephew. But then Kylo does exactly what Luke had envisioned. So by Luke isolating himself, he figured that the best solution was to go against his impulsiveness and not be involved. He also couldn't bring himself to kill his own nephew. He failed in his attempt to save him. But then used the last bit of his life to save Leia at the end of the Last Jedi because he knew she was the only hope to bring him back to the light.
Even with all the points you make about Skywalkers screwing up from visions, why would Luke not try to fix his screwup and stop Kylo? Why would he just let it happen again, doing nothing to prevent the carnage he had just unleashed upon the galaxy?
To quote Mark Hamill "A Jedi doesn't give up"
@@stephenbrenchley8104 Why did Kenobi give up on Anakin? He did so because Anakin indicated to him that the their relationship was irrecoverably broken. That's why he leaves him to die in agony in III instead of putting him out of his misery which is rather horrific if you stop to think about it.
If Luke chases after Ben, and Ben cannot be swayed back to the Light (their encounter on Crait doesn't give me much hope that Kylo would have been receptive to Luke's intervention, their relationship is similarly broken), then eventually he will be faced with the same choice as Kenobi: Kill him, maim him horrifically, or die by his hand. Luke thought he had overcome his darkness 30 years ago on the Death Star until his slip with Ben in the tent. Remember, there isn't just the soul of Ben at stake, there is also Luke's. If Ben draws those negative emotions out of Luke, but this time Luke loses control and kills him then his eventual fall to the Darkside (like Anakin's after killing the Tuskan Raiders) is almost assured. The black mark on his heart would grow until it consumed him.
@GuardianOwl
Kenobi thought he killed Anakin. He literally didn't give up. He left him to die. He wasn't going to strike a defenseless man, and Padme needed urgent medical care.
Wow. "It's like poetry, it rhymes"
i find it ironic how people deliberately take Kylos version out of context and claim it’s what actually happened
RIGHT!?
So you wake up with a nigga holding a light saber to your and what hit them with the “what’s good”
That's no excuse for Luke not fully explaining what happened to Rey though.
Him walking into his tent with his lightsaber is bad enough
At the same time he still tried to kill him even thought it is not the Jedi way.
Did I hear some Clone Wars music?
"Passing The Secret" - Unreleased Clone Wars Track By Kevin Kiner...
@@StarWarsStory it must be part of Ahsoka Tano's theme. Right?
@@fabianfreitag8744 It was the track that played when Echo gets blown up in the Citadel Arc.
What I would do differently is show more flashbacks to Solo's descent into darkness and to show more context of the night Ben fell to the dark side. I would have the scene open with Luke training Ben but as time goes on he would become more aggressive with his training. Luke would go talk with Ben but he sees he's sleeping so he decides to wait till tomorrow but he then feels a dark presence coming from Ben. He checks on Ben but then we see glimpses of horrible things happening and then Luke would open his eyes and sees his lightsaber ignited in his hand so it would have been from fear rather than his own choice and then Ben wakes up.
Luke was Crazy to kill his own nephew because he though that Thrawn said the true about his fate
You are right my friend, I have been saying this forever. If we had been shown a bit of what Luke saw and had him ignite the saber without thinking of it (I know he says its instinct but doing it with eyes closed would portray that better), then I would have been left with far less questions about why Luke would consider killing his sleeping nephew.
It didn't need that. It would negate the whole point of the scene. The point was very Rashamon, it's less about the overall context and more about crafting THIS moment. Too much context ruins the mysterious nature of this event and the unbiased reality. Seeing Kylos fall wasn't the point, it's showing how Luke's impulse was the X Factor for his decisions and Kylos. This moment WASN'T meant to reaffirm the turn, it was the cast doubt.
@@Zombie_Trooper I think it could have been both. Maybe start the movie with a flashback of their training in order to give more context about their relationship, but in a way that could make uncertain how Luke would act next, and then during the film show the flashbacks of the moment in the Rashmon style.
Yeah exactly like, actually show what Luke is seeing when he peers into Ben's mind. We hear very little auditory sounds and I guess we are left to come up with something with our own imagination. But it would be so much more powerful if we actually saw glimpses, like you said, of everything Luke saw.
One of the few good ideas from the last jedi. Using the classic line "from a certain point of view" and showing Kylo's view, Luke's and finally the truth of it all in this situation was pritty good.
No. It's like pick a knife over your family. And worse, leave eveone to die.
@@JODelevante Nah. The movie actually has great emotional beats but the plot structure is horrible.
I personally dont like the fact that Luke would even consider killing Ben even for a moment. he would always see the light in people. Its just not Luke Skywalker to me. However I have to admit, the dialogue or I guess monologue is cool as fuck in this flashback
@senmole yeah he did in ROTJ cos he was facing fear. The dark side. Cos he wasn't a Jedi Master yet. He was still training.
That's a HUGE misconception. Luke wasn't a saint that saw the light in people. It was HIS FATHER. That's why he wanted to save him. His connection with his FATHER.
@@hen913why wouldn’t he have a connection with the son of his sister and best friend? One he actually knew, watched grow up, mentored for years and hadn’t done anything wrong of significance? Luke says he fears for everything he loved - Ben, being his nephew, should be one of those people that he loves. He shouldn’t get as far as igniting his lightsaber.
I totally get why people didn't like Luke's actions here, hell I'd have kept this whole scenario out of the film...But it's in there and I've made peace with the reasoning. The idea that an adrenaline filled Luke who was coming down from a trippy Force vision, ignited his saber out of fear before coming to his senses seems plausible. In A New Hope Obi-Wan says the Force partially controls your actions...and I think that's what happened here, Luke acted on instinct and it made him ignite his saber, just like Obi-Wan did on Mustafar...before Luke came back to his senses. Whether you like or dislike this scene, pretending it makes no sense is childish, the details in Luke's final version are what happened*
So, you basically injected your headcanon and contrived reasons to excuse asinine writing ? Pretending these excuses give it sense seems sillier, but whatevs...
@@DanieleMulas-up7np Or...and hear me out...I watched the same movie as you but arrived to different conclusions to you and gave it the Ok based on Luke's VO. I agree this whole Nearly killing Ben thing is a shitty thing to do to Luke's character, making him do cowardly actions but, despite you saying "a vague vision" we don't actually know what he saw and we can only guess how much it f***ed him up, he's literally shaking when the vision ends. We've seen how strong visions are in Star Wars, we just saw Rey's in the previous film, I'm not saying your wrong for hating the direction they took but from how you've responded to me and any others who kinda see what RJ was at leats going for, I feel what really bothers you is you wish it's head canon where it's actually just...canon.
@@StarWarsStory The matter of fact is, he gave a chance to a murderous, cold cyborg, on the basis that he still believed there was good in him and that he was his father. But, apparently, his nephew, the son of his best friend and twin sister, whom he trained and groomed since he was 9 or 10, just because he had Darth Smeagol talking to him telepathically , was beyond any salvation ?
Say what you will about Force visions, but it's not like Anakin outright went to kill Tusken Raiders or Obi Wan, just because they were associated to his mother or Padme being in pain.
So yeah, using a quote from an older movie, when RJ himself didn't care about canonicity but only about themes, to defend an otherwise nonsensical plotpoint, is contrived. "Canon" be damned, if it's Disney, where they claim one thing in a source, then retcon it somewhere else. I'll take the successful Jedi Master who married a former Imperial spy and successfully rebuilt the Jedi Order, over the fearful pathetic old man who almost killed his nephew, without attempting to talk some sense to him first.
This discussion is over. It's clear we're at an impasse.
@@DanieleMulas-up7np Dude you're contradicting yourself. You just admitted to understanding that Anakin wasn't planning to kill all the Tuskens, he reacted badly to not saving his mother and took revenge...Yet when Luke goes in to check the Ben situation you'll pretend he always planed on killing him rather than, like his father, react badly, in this case to a vision. It's like you saw Kylo's version of what happened and ignored the 3rd one. The Key difference between Luke & Anakin is Luke stopped himself, Anakin never did. By the way saying Discussion over is the equivalent of hiding, you're happy to state your opinion but don't want to hear anyone else's. You can take the Legends over Canon, so accept other people will feel opposite. This discussion is open.
@@StarWarsStory Uhmmm No, Anakin had his vision BEFORE going on a murder spree, all he wanted was to check on his mother and save her. Her dying in his arms is what triggered his reaction. Whereas Luke outright went for his lightsaber IN THE MIDDLE of the vision, and never attempted to wake him up to ask if there was something troubling him. Talk any sense to him. Anakin might have killed the Tusken Raiders, but Luke's action doomed the whole galaxy.
How was I contraddicting myself ? You're twisting my words, if anything.
I'm simply saying we're at an impasse because this conversation is gonna be nothing but circling around excuses and contrived explanations that have been used and debunked already in so many videos or forums, and there's no real point in doing that. It does no good to either of us. To you, it's just gonna take away time that you could spend in putting together good videos. And to me, it's not gonna improve my opinion of this pathetic film nor give convincing explanations for an out-of-character choice, done for the sake of referencing Kurosawa at the expense of coherent storytelling. Let alone, original, as it's yet another "fallen prodigy student killed everyone else to join the Empire, and his Master went in exile" plot, but in a more contrived, depressing, bleak, and nihilistic key.
Feel free to reply, of course, but I've had this conversation with others, and it didn't really go anywhere that was thought provoking or constructive, sadly...
I didn’t even realize the changes between the flashbacks. Good job!
People keep on just remembering how kylo saw it and not what actually happen luke ALMOST killed him out of pure instinct but he didn't.
Slowly pulling out and igniting a lightsaber is not pure instinct.
@@grimlord3181 If Han were in that bedroom and saw Luke just put his lightsaber in his hand, Han would've blastered his own brother-in-law in the head and never stopped firing.
BRB, going to point a gun at my kids and then holster it. Nice of me
@Grimlord 31 Han's shots would be deflected and his blaster would end up in Luke's hand and then Luke would explain.
@@MagicAl5F4781
Kylo would be awakened by the blaster fire and Luke would have ended up dead due to being distracted by Han.
I love this scene. It shows parallels of Luke to both Anakin and Luke's own younger self, but shows that while Luke did still sometimes think impulsively, he didn't make the decision immediately after thinking about it. A younger Luke may have tried to kill Kylo, Anakin definitely might have tried as well, but this Luke is a much wiser Jedi now that he was in the originals and far more insightful than his father ever was, so even though the idea crossed his mind, it didn't stay there or become an impulse to action. But most of all, it shows that Luke is human and can make mistakes, just like any of us. He made a mistake here, and that mistake was what set the whole conflict over the edge.
Mark Hamill himself said he imagines this Luke as the man who worked until he had a happy life, and had a family, but that family fell apart indirectly because of his actions. This scene perfectly matches with that idea of Luke- he made a mistake and that cost him everything. Dislike the sequel trilogy all you want and how Luke's story was treated, but I think it shows that Luke is human.
When did he say that? Twitter? TH-cam interview?
Think about it and acrivate the lightsaber is different. Luke already passed his recklessness in OT.
Would YOU ever contemplate murdering your nephew in his sleep? If you say yes I would consider introspection because thats a pretty shitty thing to consider. Luke is a human and makes mistakes, but he would never do that.
Luke and Anakin are opposite characters. Luke passed the test which Anakin failed in ROTJ
Wtf? I think people who like sequels like to murder their nephews or children 😃.
Didn’t knew people would take Anakins ways
To those of you saying "That's so out of character for Luke, he would never do that!", just remember how he reacted when Vader threatened to turn Leia to the Dark Side.
...30 years earlier. And Space-Hitler is nowhere near the same as an edgy kid with daddy issues.
@@dylang1138 Space hitler that made me laugh ngl
I agree, Luke is human, do you really think all that legend talk didn't go to his head after hearing it probably everyday for years?
@@DavidNovak13 Yes.
TOTALLY DIFFERENT SITUATION
You realize that Ezra, Ahsoka, Grogu and Jacen are not Happy when they react that Luke almost killed Ben
Ben: My uncle tried to kill me. Time to immediately burn down the temple and wipe out the Jedi all in one night.
Wasn't what he did at all, read the rise of kylo ren comic
@@splashnskillz37 well they didnt know that
@@Bluemantopvids That's on them not for not seeking the truth
@@splashnskillz37 Who are you talking about?
@@splashnskillz37 See that's why this movie was executed so badly. We shouldn't HAVE to read anything else to like this movie. They should explain all the back story and include the character development in the movie.
So there is a chance Grogu is still alive.
He's alive
grogu would be older
This scene defiles the whole Star Wars franchise.
While I still highly disagree with The Last Jedi, this is quite impressive. Very interesting combination of the three perspectives, helps sum up the "real truth" more thoroughly.
The thing I really dislike about this movie is the mcu styled humor. Everything revolving Luke, Rey and Kylo, I can watch over and over again
"see you around kid" 💀
@@γιουργιαisn’t that line literally in Empire?
My primary issue with Luke in The Last Jedi is that I think it’s completely out of his character for him to sneak into Ben’s hut while he was sleeping, and go as far as to ignite his lightsaber over his unarmed nephew. I don’t mind a storyline where Luke becomes disillusioned with the Jedi, but the reason that the film gives is totally unbelievable to me. Wouldn’t Luke try talking to Ben first? Try reaching him on a personal level? This isn’t just some random student, this is his nephew, the son of his sister and best friend. I can’t believe Luke wouldn’t be more cautious while dealing with this specific student.
If Rian Johnson wanted Luke and Ben to clash sabers in this conflict, I think it would’ve been much better to have it happen during Ben’s training. Luke even says that he sensed darkness in Ben during his training. The flashback could’ve shown Ben going too far, and Luke having no choice but to take up arms. The fact that Luke willingly put himself in the position to essentially hold a loaded weapon over his unarmed, sleeping nephew doesn’t sit well with me.
I would’ve preferred more context than a mere minute and a half long flashback for such a drastic, offscreen change in Luke’s character.
Bruh Luke literally said he went to confront him you cannot confront someone who is sleeping Luke probably thought he was still awake
I do believe this scene needed more context like Luke sensing aggression in Ben training and fighting style or something but to say Luke wouldn't Ignite his blade against his unarmed nephew is something I would disagree. There have been multiple times throughout the original trilogy where Luke fear and anger gets the best of him. I mean that how Vader manipulated him into coming to cloud city with the death and tortured of his friends, the emperor does the same thing to probe Luke to try to kill the emperor (an unarmed old man) only to be stop by Vader. I would go far and say that Luke actually hesitated and stop is progress for the character 😂😂
thank god you weren't writing
@@numberjuan469 ikr, disney already done so well there is no need to change the writing or anything. 🤡
He literally says in this scene that he was just going there to talk to Ben about the darkness building inside of him.
Luke wasn't planning on attacking Ben in his sleep, but the Force showed him part of what Kylo would become, and it made him ignite his saber instinctively out of fear.
It'd be like suddenly realizing someone you live with is a serial killer, it'd scare the shit out of you. But then he comes to his senses realizing it hasn't happened yet and he shouldn't give in to his fears, but it's too late.
Even though Luke is wise, he is still human. He nearly gives in to fear and hatred multiple times in the original trilogy, this isn't against his character in the slightest.
For the people saying that this is out of character for Luke is quite ridiculous. Luke acts on instinct here, especially fear. Just like when he lashed out at vader in return of the Jedi. When someone threatens what he loves his defenses rise and he wants to end it there and then, giving in to the hate. It’s a fault in his character that reoccurred here to show that Luke has never been perfect.
Oh yes, attack your father who is a Sith Lord with power and weapon, who killed millions, trapped you in corner and threatens your sister is the same thing as attack your nephew who just sleeps and sees bad dream...25 years after you spared your father's life and sacrificed yours to save him...Best comparison ever.
Your analysis forgets about luke ultimately overcoming that character flaw when he throws his lightsaber away and refuses to kill his father. That was the big difference between luke and anakin. When anakin was faced with the fear of losing his loved omes he succumbed to his impulses and turned, when luke cut off faders mechanical hand and looked at his own fake hand he realized he was going down the same path and stopped himself, ultimately mastering his passions and becoming a Jedi. This is why rian johnsons movie is complete shit. It retcons a three movie arc demonstrating luke overcoming the same character flaw that claimed his father.
Vader was one of the most evil men in the galaxy and was actively threatening Lukes sister. Ben was lukes fucking nephew man. He was sleeping. How would Luke EVER contemplate that? Search your feelings, you know it to be true.
All the replies under this post are forgetting some things. This Luke never intended to kill Ben. He said he went to "confront it". Only *after* he's seen visions of a possible future did he ignite his saber. Idk if y'all know how pretty powerful visions are as described in spiritual text and teachings. So it makes sense why he would give in for a moment. The scene is definitely different from ESB but still echoes the same thoughts.
@@REChronic54 First of all, he already learned his lesson in ESB - don't panic of visions. Second, if he suspected nothing, why did he go to Ben at the middle of the night? And if he did suspect darkness in him, he should be ready to face it. How powerful visions are? They didn't even show what he saw! And whatever it was, it didn't happen yet. Vader already did worse, and yet Luke saved him. And no, thinking about killing someone is one thing, raise your hand and activate lightsaber is another level.
This might be blasphemous to my fellow hardcore Star Wars fans, but I really appreciated this scene. Please don't @ me.
I like the scene because it actually feels like a natural part of Luke's character being used at its fullest against him to create a believable conflict.
@@Alex-ji6ob I agree.
I've sort of come around to Luke's arc in TLJ, I just wish that they had spent more time on it.
If I had a time machine and a powerful position in Lucasfilm, I would made Rian split TLJ into 2 movies, one focusing on Luke/Rey/Kylo and one focusing on the Rebellion. There are so many extenuating circumstances going into this moment, but you need to read the books in order to know them and you shouldn't have to.
@@girlysword I think that if the Sequel Trilogy was filmed back to back, and was helmed by one filmmaker, it would have been a much more cohesive story.
Exactly!! It shows how he's human and can make mistakes. I enjoyed The Last Jedi when it first came out, but I enjoy it much more in the context of the entire sequel trilogy. The story needed to be rounded out to make more sense, and I think The Rise of Skywalker did just that.
Want irony? Before the prequels. Vader/Anakin was loved and untouchable. Then the prequels came, were bashed, and many fans declared Vader has been permanently destroyed due to young Anakin in the three films.
Flash forward to the sequels, and the same thing happened to Luke, with fans declaring Og Luke has permanently been destroyed.
Also true about both preq Anakin and seq Luke? These versions are *actually* more accurate to their respective legacies than fans want to think.
The only difference is enough time has passed for fans to get over the issues of the prequels and have come to finally see the good in them. Heres to hoping in 10 years, the same happens for the sequels.
We don't argue that Luke should be perfect. We argue that his character should be consistent. Luke from OT would never attack his nephew in his sleep and leave everyone die. If they wanted to show how he fell, they needed to do at least a movie about that.
@@Сайтамен He did almost kill Vader a few times in ep 6. And that was with verbal hypothetical threats and not a vivid vision of solid events that could very well happen.
If anything, only igniting his saber before catching himself after seeing such a stronger threat shows growth.
If Luke came to the conclusion that jedi are the cause of the galaxy's worst problems and by extention himself causing the current issues after 20 years of being a jedi, then I think it makes sense that his solution being removing himself from the picture.
@@CritStanley Oh yes, attack your father who is a Sith Lord with power and weapon, who killed millions, trapped you in corner and threatens your sister is the same thing as attack your nephew who just sleeps and sees bad dream...25 years after you spared your father's life and sacrificed yours to save him...Best comparison ever.
It's like pick a knife over your family because you were angry...And even worse, after Kylo escaped, he just let everyone die...
@@Сайтамен Saw a dream? Luke looked into Ben's mind and was bombarded by his future. It's been shown in lore AND the main films that these force visions aren't just watching events as if a cutscene. They are visceral, intense, at times, overwhelming. Just look what happened to Yoda, a trained jedi master with hundreds of years of practice of maintaining emotions, when Order 66 happened.
Luke was hit with multiple order 66 level visions when he looked into Ben's mind. And all without Yoda's years of emotional training.
It wasn't like Luke was pulling aknife on a family member in anger. At the moment Luke first woke back up from the vision, it was as if Ben had ALREADY done all of that. Thus, Luke wasn't seeing him as Ben, he was seeing him as Kylo Ren. Luke was pulling a knife on a family member who had just murdered everyone.
@@Сайтамен You may counter that by his age, Luke should have been better able to control his emotions. Sure, but not by much. Luke hadn't found the ancient Jedi texts yet. He had not anyone to train him post ep6. He had grown and matured to the point that igniting his saber snapped him back to reality, much faster than with Vader. But really, the fact that everyone expects more from him with what he got after 6 is kinda why Luke hated himself so much. Luke expected of himself what all the fans did. If you're all so mad and hateful about this, kinda makes sense that Luke would be the way he was in the beginning of Last Jedi
People who defending Luke´s action in here.
Even Mark Hamill himself said, that this is not the Luke Skywalker he used to play.
I mean, i didn´t expected a character like Luke trying to kill someone in his sleep.
Why is it every time I watch this scene I think that it's Oscar Issac sleeping for a split second before I remember that it's Adam Driver? They look nothing alike when they're awake!
Captain America said it goes wrong every time you try to stop a war before it happens.. EVERY TIME
Way to kill a franchise Disney,
this movie is complete bullshit;
Oh, hi Dad,
who permanently injured me,
tortured my sister,
and murdered countless innocents,
including my childhood friends,
and surrogate parents:
"I STILL SENSE GOOD IN YOU!"
Oh, hi nephew,
son of my beloved sister,
whom I am confident I will lead by example in the light side of the force,
based on my self sacrificial and heroic legacy after the galactic liberation,
and at this time of prosperity without the Empire:
"I HAVE A BAD FEELING! TIME TO DIE!"👿💀
“Wait a minute. What am I thinking? This is wrong. Oh. Ben, you’re awake. This isn’t what it looks like, at least, it no longer is.”
"I mean he basically had his lightsaber on..so Kylo was right."
Forget the fact he was basically had to stop himself from murdering his father in his rage..
But yeah Luke stopping himself in the heat of the moment based on Force premonitions.. totally gonna murder his nephew NO QUESTIONS ASKED.
His dad was quite literally responsible for mass genocide. He also cut off his hand and tried to kill Luke numerous times and just threatened his sister and they were in active combat. Meanwhile Ben is just an edgy teenager who didn’t actually anything wrong at that point. And that Luke is was decades younger. There’s no excuse for this
@@jeyrey9835
Jedi who’s entire existence is based on premonition and emotions and feeling etc.. saw a vision. He went to do it and stopped himself.
You all act as though he was going in guns blazing. Shoot now ask questions later. Like he didn’t have a lapse in judgment. As though he had ravenous murderous intent with no speck of mercy.
@@bauer0788 “Always in motion the future is” -Yoda. Do jedi often has premonitions? Yes. Are they always accurate? Hell no. ESB Luke is quite literally confronted with consequences of acting without thought due to premonitions when he loses him hand. This is a lesson Luke should already be familiar with. Besides that, why is he going to do it to begin with? That’s straight bs. That lapse is judgement is something is against Luke’s character. Pulling the blicky on HIS SISTER’S SON while he’s asleep is soo stupid and out of line. The fact that he was sensing all this dark side shit in Ben for weeks and goes into his room is dumb already. He should know better then to act on instinct, he should already have trust in the light side of the force considering this is a Luke decades older than the one in the OT
@@jeyrey9835
And AGAIN… he didn’t act on the premonition… like no one saying it’s “good” but y’all pretend he was basically sith at that point.
@@bauer0788 if he didn’t act, why is he in Ben’s room standing over him with his lightsaber out? Just cos he didn’t actually strike doesn’t mean he didn’t act
I know that the Last Jedi is hated, but what I always liked is it showed that Luke was really a lot more like Anakin than we originally thought. Most of his life he only knew The Empire and War. This meant he took more drastic measures than most. The huge difference is that Luke didn't have Obi-Wan or Yoda, or anyone to tell him what to do.
But this is super sad and dark because Luke thought he could bring the Jedi back, and then one fatal mistake made everything fail.
Love this movie
"Ben, no!" means that Ben was trying to kill him, and Luke can sense what he's going to do.
Love your profile pick!
What would make this slightly better was if Luke had a child that he envisioned Ben killing, who would end up actually doing so
I don't wanna know why because Kylo Ren is too much evil and rage consumes him. Luke was so much upset and tearfully.
0:54 Ben. It's not what you think.
Even though I like these sequences, one of my problems with them is at the beginning. We hear Luke talk about how he saw darkness, that he sensed it building up within Ben, and seen it in moments during his training. But the issue I have here is that we never actually see that stuff. We are never shown that. And then there is all this talk about how Snoke had already turned Ben's heart to the dark side, but again, we never see it. I think one of my biggest issues with this movie is, it doesn't delve into it's own story enough to make it seem more interesting or make sense (?), I think that's the word? There are so many moments where extra scenes could have added a lot more context to the situation and make a better film. There's dialogue, a lot sometimes, and yet it doesn't leave a well enough impact on the viewer. I would have loved to see more of Luke and Ben's relationship, how they all met and knew about Snoke, and the reaction of key characters to what happened between Luke and Ben, especially Han and Leia. Did Luke tell Han and Leia the truth about what happened in the hut? Or did he just say that Ben murdered most of his students and destroyed the temple? Stuff like this is what the main plot of the movie should have been about. We could either cut down or remove outright the Canto Bight sequence and/or write around that. Cut down on the space chase scene with the Resistance. Keep it in of course, but make the main focal point of the movie about Luke, Ben, Rey, and Snoke.
First of all. We really don't need to see the flashbacks of what force showed Luke. It would convey exactly same thing, bad things happened. This whole sequence is one of the things that made me hate sequel trilogy. We leave original trilogy with Luke in his prime, overcame all the flaws and issues he had as the character and after 30 years (or so) we are back to Tatooine Luke, we see an image of a man trying to kill his relative because he saw a "vision" of Ben becoming next Vader. FFs he saw good in Vader when nobody saw it in him, he believed in Vader and ultimately brought Anakin back, by simply trusting his feeling. Not the force, not people around him, not force ghosts, he trusted in Vader and his own instinct.
As far as we know, it could be Snoke/Palpatine sending those visions to Luke. He probably met with Ben Solo already, found out about Luke through their talks and tried to use their emotional/blood connection to turn Ben into Kylo... Which again would show how weak Luke became and how he just turned back to the Tatooine farmer boy... Thats the kind of info we would need as viewer, but simply we never saw any connection between them to care enough, again poor writing...
I think it would be much better if it was opposite, Ben starting to see visions, visions that would eventually force him to join the dark side. Same as it was with Anakin. He was not scared of jedi, he got scared of not being strong enough to overcome death to save Padme... which again episode 9 breaks by resurrecting Rey with WOLOLOLO magic XDD. If resurecction/regeneration (as Paplatine and Rey showed ) was possible, why Anakin ever wanted to become Sith if both Jedi and Sith could do it?? Explanation... poor writing
Anakin by choosing Dark Side for easy power became everything he swore to destroy and avoid, kinda poetic and shows the true nature of the dark side. Ben joined Dark Side, because the good guys wanted to kill him and thats the message this scene showed, nothing more nothing else. Its as if they wanted to show there is no difference between good and bad.
This isn’t Luke skywalker. This is Luuke
I can't wait until we have the full story told in a novel or comic
I love this scene❤
Because he was Luke Skywalker, Jedi master.
Luke Skywalker was trying to defend himself and save Ben from darkness.
"BEN DO YOU WANT SOME BROWNIES BEFORE YOU GO TO BED?!"
Beautiful using the music of echo's death well sort of but awesome work man also have you got discord? :)
I didn't know it was Echo's death OST, it was literally the first track I tried and it suited :) And no sorry I don't have discord.
@@StarWarsStory ah I see no apologies necessary :)
If TMNT had a much darker ending than the Mutant apocalypse
Mikey:I dreamed of horrible darkness in him and I since them during Hiroto training and then I saw everything! (wakes up horrified)😨🤜🔪I knew then that he could not be saved… he would bring destruction, pain and death and the end of everyone I ever loved! For a brief moment of pure instinct
🤛😠🗡I thought I could stop him!!😧🗡and then it passed like a shadow and I was left with shame of what I was going to do and it came at a price (looking at his horrified brothers and then to his nephew) and the last thing I saw where the eyes of a frightened boy who’s family have failed him and with pure hatred and disgust in them
Oroku Hiroto:(grabs his sword)
Leo:Oroku Hiroto what are you doing?!!
(sewers explode)
Luke Sounds Like a Combination of Shadow The Hedgehog and Sonic The Werehog
People forget what really happened in this scene and take it the wrong way, like they only see from Ben’s POV and take it without context.
I'm been making this argument since forever! It's like people walked out after Ben's version of events...
1:00 Mara Jade screams. I predicted it because I created it.
Cool!❤
Why wasn't this episode 7?
That could’ve been interesting: Episode seven explains what will trigger the events of the sequel trilogy, maybe even have it so that the heroes lose in almost every way, with episode eight being our introduction to the lead cast, and episode nine playing out like the original Duel of the Fates script, with a few smaller alterations.
A disgrace to the legacy of Luke Skywalker, the jedi master and former padawan of Kenobi and Master Yoda, who took down the Sith Empire, would in reality never have allowed such dark passions and emotions to get the better of him.
Yes because a temple made from stone is going to ignite into flames
Maybe it’s the inside which is burning down
The Dark Side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be... unnatural.
Just because I'm Luke Skywalker...
... Jedi Master...
...
... a Legend.
Flashbacks and dream sequences are the laziest forms of storytelling. These scenes feel out of place in a Star Wars movie.
This is a good point. George Lucas himself said Star Wars was meant to play out like a documentary of events set in a far away place. Its part of what made the first 3 so engaging. Of course he broke this tradition in the prequels with Anakin's visions, and maybe you can argue the different approach is part of why those movies don't quite feel right.
@@samgilley3160 Well those movies particularly didn't feel right because of the horrible acting and cringey writing, with dialogue, design styles, and CGI that didn't follow the theme of what the original trilogy established. For instance, The Phantom Menace actually resorted to potty humor.
Luke acting like that is normal. You can see the hand he holding the light saber with is mechanical it doesn't have feelings. Then he stops himself brings balance to the force.
That's everyday life, ben waking up half way though the action shows how someone could misinterpret something from their point of view, leading him to take action from his point of view. This is why we are supposed to be more civil then animals because we have a voice to communicate with. If you don't use it and jump to conclusions what do you get ben turning to the dark said killing his dad hating his uncle, but as soon as he see a fine piece of tail in distress. He is willing to change his mind. That also is not out of character gets it from his father han risking his neck for Leia.
This is my defense for Luke’s actions.
Anakin’s Force visions make him betray The Jedi in Episode 3.
Luke’s Force visions make him abandon Yoda and Obi Wan in Episode 5.
Rey’s Force visions make her abandon Han, Finn, and BB8 in Episode 7.
There’s a very clear pattern here. These visions leave them scared and angry. The response is always to run away or fight.
Episode 8 Luke, in my opinion, handles it very well. You can hear Kylo killing people at 0:18 - 0:24. Luke had one of these Force visions and managed to re-gain self control in a matter of seconds.
Last note: Yoda sees the future in the original trilogy, as well as in the prequel trilogy. But he was also trained properly and had been a Jedi for hundreds of years. Anakin, Luke, and Rey received training late into their lives. That’s why I think Yoda is unbothered by visions, whereas the other 3 become broken.
If you make it surface level, then sure.
Anakin’s betray is MUCH more than “visions”.
Luke’s force visions were of Han and Leia being hurt on Bespin, and being the hero he was he rushed off.
Luke would never do this tho
1:09 just imagine if grogu decided to stay there and become a Jedi
Why does this feel like the Lotso flashback from Toy Story 3 lmao
Ya the best sense of the movie lol
people go ham on this scene for luke trying to kill ben, but think about it.
He had felt the darkness taking hold of ben for weeks, and went to confront him about it.
He wasn't actively trying to kill him. He saw pain and suffering, and he wanted to end it.
His old Jedi instinct kicked in, and he took out his lightsaber, but he immediately felt shameful, even regretting how impulsive he was acting.
But, it was too late. Ben saw it as Luke trying to kill him, and the temple was destroyed.
How about confronting him while he’s awake and have an honest discussion instead of propping his nephews mind while he’s asleep? Nahh, this was shady from the start.
yeah they still ruined luke in the sequels
Why are they back to front? Luke’s final flashback is put first instead of last, while his first flashback is put last instead of first. Jarring and ruins the effect.
Luke could improvised, when Ben saw him, Luke could quickly turn off his sword and say "nice, you are aware of danger even when sleeping, very good"
And Ben be like: "😑.... My mother will know about this"
nice
Luke created the new order 66 of the first ordrr
How would Leia react if she found out about what Luke did?
If Leia can forgive Ben for killing his father, I’m sure she can forgive Luke for ultimately deciding not to kill her son despite seeing the corruption growing inside of him.
People probably would’ve like this movie better if they had extended flashbacks and this was an actual fight scene seeing like train. Instead meh.
character regression. He's already learned this lesson in RoTJ, it's dumb for him to make that mistake and for it to be the reason why his Jedi Order fell and Empire rise again
💯 Agreed! We did not need to see this play out AGAIN 🥱
Order 66 all over again
Lmao,and all of this was later retconed in the kylo ren comic, with the even worse story of palpatine destroying the temple with a lighting bolt, making Ben completely innocent.
Disney made something already bad somehow even worse
NONSENSE!! Listen. I have nothing whatsoever against Adam Driver, Daisy, Ridley or John Boyega. They're all terrific actors. But this is in every way, imaginable unrealistic, and completely out of character for Luke Skywalker. He would NOT & NEVER attempt such an act like this, it's not the Jedi way. Maybe Anakin Skywalker would probably have attempted something like this. But Luke? This is total nonsense. This would not even have crossed Luke's mind ever! My girlfriend and I literally walked out of the theater after seeing this, and have not continued with the trilogy any further since. In my own world of Star Wars? These stories never happened and don't happen. They do not exist! The New Republic still remains after return of the Jedi. The Empire never built something called the first order. Not to mention Ben Solo turning to the dark side, really doesn't make any sense in itself. And even if he did, Luke Skywalker wasn't even willing to kill Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker regardless of all the god-awful terrible things they both did. But he's going to kill Han and Leia's son because he's heading in the direction of the Darkside?? No! Certainly Not!! Like how do you not laugh at this?? 🤷🏻♂️ Disney is so stupid! Put to rest. I do love Ahsoka and Mandalorian though. However, Disney also doesn't know how lightsabers work because Sabine should've been dead after that impalement. A Lightsaber is many times hotter than the sun, Not just where tissue where the point of impact was completely vaporized, but the surrounding areas and organs inside would also be fried. I like her, but surviving that Lightsaber impalement was nonsense also, 100%.
THIS. This was the moment that ruin the star wars sequels beyond repair. Luke would never even THINK about killing his own nephew because of a dream. He believed Darth Vader (aka Space Hitler) was redeemable, he would 1000% do more to redeem Ben Solo. But the movies wanted to give him a redemption arc and shoehorn a romance between him and Rey, instead of sticking to the clear trajectory of Kylo's full decent into the dark side. This goes hand in hand with how they screwed over Finn's storyline.
All flashbacks are true. Perspective.
Star wars have been a very flawed series since the beginning.
This part was the only good part of the movie
really hate rewatching this because ryan doesn't understand how to write luke.
thank god you weren't writing cause you would've kept luke the same with no arc
[cough] [cough] Return Of The Jedi [cough] [cough] Luke’s reaction to Vader’s threat about Leia [cough] [cough]
@@S-Fan2006 Not the same thing.
@@grimlord3181 Luke: *Lashes out when Vader threatens to turn Leia to the dark side and only stops when he slices his father’s arm off*
Also Luke: *Almost lashes out when he sees the threat of Ben killing his friends, but returns to his senses after he turns his lightsaber on, which causes the sequel trilogy to happen*
Yeah. _Totally_ not the same thing.
@@S-Fan2006 It's not. Vader was already evil and would very likely follow up on his threats, and this was during a fight; Kylo was not yet evil and only had potential to do those things, and was ASLEEP.
He said he left with other students who tf are the other wtf happened to them I hate the fact that this movie was so shit they disrespected ma boi Luke
Lame. Luke wouldn't do this
I can't actually believe someone wrote this then someone filmed it then someone signed it off as acceptable lmao
Luke should have told Ben's parents the truth! They have been able to bring Ben to the light side sooner.
Leia knew the truth. She forgave her brother.
@@smilinjack87 Did she?
Bro idk y luke seems so weak
This shouldn't be cannon what a fucking train wreck everything he went through with Vader after all that he senses some bad thoughts and is like there's no saving him what a bunch of clown shoes
Such an interesting idea that was terribly executed. Good story telling isn't telling the audience what happened. It's showing them. It's allowing the audience to journey WITH the characters through what happened.
If I'd been the writer of that second movie I would have made a massive chunk of it showing the close bond between Ben and Luke and Ben's reason for his slow by steady fall to the Dark Side and Luke's continued worry and suspicion. That would add SO much context to this final act from Luke.
As it was, we got no back story of Ben, no back story for Luke, no back story for Snoke and no back story for the 'handful of Jedi students' who I'm guessing were the Knights of Ren.
Very frustrating.
Also, I would have given Luke a bad ass redemption arc, his Jedi Master fight and see him get his 'moxy' back again and fight for the return of the Jedi.
If it was me, I would have finished the trilogy with Luke the Jedi Master again and Rey his apprentice and they go off to re-build the Jedi again.
1st
sorry, still hate this movie ;)