00:03:37 Starting point is the Master of Naitivity 00:03:48 Slide: One Planet to Rule Them all 00:07:22 Slide: a Fragment from Petosiris on the Master (from Vettius Valens) 00:14:01 Slide: a Fragment from Petosiris on the Master (from Vettius Valens) 00:14:57 Slide: Surviving Treatment of Porphyry 00:23:08 Diagram: Chronology of works on the Master of the Nativity 00:28:52 Slide: Porphyry on the Rulers of the Nativity 00:34:32 >> Calculations of rulers according to Porphyry 00:34:42 Slide: How to find the Predominator [ἐπικρατήτωρ / epikratētōr] 00:36:18 Similar to the medieval concept of Almuten 00:38:24 Slide: How to find the Predominator (3 factors for the luminaries) 00:39:18 Diagram: Finding the Sect (Day/Night Charts) 00:41:15 Angular luminary is preferred over less angular one 00:43:05 The Luminary that is more eastern (closer to ASC) is preferred. 00:43:48 Diagram: Explaining East vs. West in a chart 00:48:34 Slide: Use of Equal and Quadrant Houses 01:01:38 Quadrant House based East/West question 01:04:00 Quadrant Houses divide the chart into East and West 01:04:30 Diagram: Meridian vs. Whole sign 10th house 01:05:09 Diagram: Three different midheavens (Meridian, 10th whole sign, 90° from ASC - Nonagesimal) 01:09:13 Diagram: Finding the Sect (Day/Night Charts) 01:15:52 Diagram: Jupiter Rising & reaches Highest Elevation 01:22:00 Examples from Porphyry 01:22:16 Diagram of Porphyry example 01:22:26 Chart: Sun in 1st house, Day chart (Porphyry example) 01:24:27 Chart: Moon in 1st house, Night chart (Porphyry example) 01:25:04 Chart: Moon in 1st or 2nd, Sun in 9th, Day chart (Porphyry example) 01:27:14 Chart: Sun in 2nd, Moon in 9th, Night chart 01:30:49 Chart: Night Chart, Moon in 9th, Sun in 2nd 01:30:56 Chart: Night Chart, Sun/Moon below horizon 01:32:14 Chart: Night Chart, Sun angular, Moon in Cadent house 01:33:19 Chart: Day Chart, Moon & Sun in Cadent 9th 01:34:07 Slide: Summarizing Predomination 01:34:58 Can there be a tie? If the Sect wins out? Equally angual, equally estern? 01:35:19 Chart: Night Chart, Sun 4th, Moon in 4th or 5th house 01:36:21 If equal, will degree of angularity matter? 01:39:11 >> The master of the nativity [οἰκοδεσπότης γενέσεως / oikodespotēs geneseōs] 01:39:57 Chart: First method of Determining the Master 01:40:50 The Master of the Nativity is the domicile lord of the Predominator 01:41:27 Chart showing sign/planet rulerships 01:52:17 Chart: T. S. Eliot (Moon Predominator / Mercury Master) 01:55:34 Chart: Salvador Dali (Sun Predominator / Venus Master) 01:57:04 Chart: Linda Goodman (Sun Predominator / Mars Master in Gemini 3rd house) 01:50:28 Slide: Ancient Character Interpretation (using Master) 02:04:21 Slide: Iamblichus on the Guardian Spirit 02:06:02 Slide: Rhetorius on Venus as Master of the Nativity 02:08:05 Slide: Identifying the Guardian Spirit in Porphyry 02:21:56 >> Co-Master or the Joint Master of the Nativity [συνοικοδεσπότης / sunoikodespotēs] 02:22:22 Slide: Co-Master / Joint Master 02:22:59 The bound lord of the Predominator becomes the Co-Master of the Nativity 02:23:30 Terms / Bounds / Confines / (Ὅρια horia) (unequal sub-division of a sign) 02:23:42 Diagram: Bounds according to the Egyptians (hellenisticastrology.com/bounds.pdf) 02:28:32 Diagram: Table of Planetary Rulerships (www.hellenisticastrology.com/rulerships.pdf) 02:29:13 Slide: Use in the Length of Life Technique 02:33:00 Years associated with each of the Planets 02:35:02 Slide: Quote from Firmicus on the Master of the Nativity 02:38:00 Chart: T. S. Eliot (Predominator in Bounds of Venus Co-Master) 02:44:26 Slide: Second Method of Determining the Master 02:49:17 Chart: Franklin D. Roosevelt (ASC in Bounds of Mars) 02:52:08 Chart: Judy Blume 02:52:12 Chart: Linda Goodman 02:55:03 Slide: Summarizing the Role of the Master of the Nativity 02:55:51 Slide: Bonus Material: The Lord of the Nativity [κύριος / kurios] 02:59:00 Slide: First Approach to Determining the Lord 03:02:45 Slide: Second Approach to Determining the Lord (Candidates) 03:05:20 Slide: Second Approach to Determining the Lord (Citeria) 03:06:37 Slide: Difficult and Complex doctrine 03:07:47 Slide: Valens on the Master of the Nativity (critique on Petosiris) 03:13:45 Chris Brennan's Conclusion 03:13:50 Slide: Final Remarks
@@user-rg4ef3kw7r This is interesting I just posted and long comment and immediately came accross yours. Unless your Sun is in your 10th house then I would agree that you would use your moon would be the predominater in your chart. Which I think would moon that the moon would also be the Master of your nativity. Anyway I am Pisces sun, Scorpio moon, Cancer rising. My moon would be my predominator (like you) but Mars would be the master of my nativity. (Karl)
00:28:24 Leisa: "right, OK, I believe you, that's a good answer" Chris: "OK, that's the long answer" *both laugh* Chris: "That's why you don't ask me good questions, because I will go on a 20 minute digression in order to answer, and we'll be here until 4 in the morning" Leisa: "OK, let's not do that" Chris: "OK, back to the presentation" OMG 😂so adorable ❤
This is THE most comprehensive astrology podcast in existence, I appreciate Chris Brennan SO MUCH for sharing his ideas and learnings with us. Also, I love Leisa!!! Thank you both so much!!
Extraordinarily skilled, All around ASTLGR, makes me wonder if The All Powerful Unbeknowns have ever threatened CB wiff what they’ll call “Adjustments“ for opening the lid of what they also call there “mechanistic actuality” 🤫😵🧑🦯🤐🤝
28:34 😂😂 I always enjoy the podcast. Chris is such an incredible gift to the Astrological community and the world at large. He will leave an indelible mark in the world. I'm so grateful for his work
I never resonated with my Sun sign but based on this ancient exercise my Moon is my predominator. This makes so much sense because I’ve always resonated with my Moon. Quite fascinating indeed.
Mars as the Master of my nativity makes perfect sense. My Scorpio moon in the sign of the moon's fall fits me better than my Pisces sun. I worked for 29 years as a psychiatric nurse. I consistently identified better with the patients than "normal" people. I was very good at my job. I tended to be laid back and the patients recognized my allegiance to them and not to the administration of administrative directives. There was rarely violence on my units and when there was it was quickly contained. In the rest of my life, I always seem to bring out the worst in others especially my family and friends. Modern texts say things like "you have to remember that you often send out unconscious signals that cause others to act against you". This sounds like BS and makes little sense to me. When I think that Mars could be used to identify my guardian spirit... This makes a whole lot more sense to me. Perhaps one day I can be freed from my fate.
A truly excellent job. Congratulations. I just bought the book. It really is a pleasure when dedication and passion shows from the first to the last minute.
Random question. Might seem ridiculous, but I'm surprised no one has seemed to ever ask it. Might be an idea for a fun/loose episode of the podcast. What if we lived on Mars? Would we develop a separate system of astrology with the same functions or can we just change a few calculations and swap Earth as a signifier for Mars?
Totally agree with Dani, this video is amazing. If you're struggling to stay with it, because of its duration, make sure NOT to skip the last 15 minutes where Chris puts it all into perspective. However, if you really want to know how to prioritize planets, rulers, etc. in any chart, you need to watch the whole thing I'm afraid. It's well worth your time :)
Enjoyed watching Chris and Leisa on another stormy night here in California. I've spent some time looking into the techniques of determining the almuten figuris and found this presentation a nice addition to my studies. Sun is the predominator in my (night) chart and just so happens to share the ruler of my Ascendant and is also the co-Master via the bounds chart I downloaded. Thank you.
I’m only 15 minutes in but this is already somewhat making sense to me. I’m Sag rising, with Capricorn Jupiter 2H opposing Cancer Sun 8H (both squaring Aries Saturn 5H). I didn’t grow up wealthy nor healthy. But due to this circumstance I invest a lot into my health in that I am able to feel my best and work hard. I take diff multivitamins & only cook my meals. My health is my wealth in that regard. I could see how these things would contribute to my overall appearance, outlook on life and/or my physical body. With Saturn in the 5H, my confidence & ability to let loose is impeded primarily by my awareness to my physical health, but in this same case, my physical health could cause me to not let loose. I do not gamble, & do not like risking my financial matters in any sort. At times I do feel bound by my finances but to me it’s worth being emotionally secure. Kevin Burke was the one who introduced me to the dispositor tree; My Gemini Mercury is very handy to me.
this was always interesting but now that I am years in and years deep this is soooo enjoyable and a great refresher, level up. Everything hits different with more experience. It really is powerful to stick with old techniques and keep it clear.
Would L O V E to see YOUR chart!!! I've being listening and guessing about it simultaneously:-) You are an unbelivible deep and abundant source of astrological knowledge and thank you SO MUCH for sharing it the way you do!!!!! Hope I will be able to listen to all your podcasts in this life time🙂
Pretty sure Chris is a Scorpio with Aqua rising. If you listen to some of his other podcasts he does talk about it. I’ve never seen his whole chart though.
How do you determine predominator if the luminary is in a cadent house, but on the mc? I have a night chart, with the moon conjunct the mc in the twelfth house. My sun is in the fifth.
Very cool lecture/discussion. Learned who the master of my nativity is...and it does resonant with me as being dead on. Thanks for sharing this rediscovery
When I first started learning astrology in the mid70s, I was shown how to calculate my Star of Destiny. It is my staion point direct 9th house Venus which would be the same planet that would result in these calculations as my Master of Nativity. Sun conjunct MC in Taurus
A wonderful introductory explanation of the subject! Thank you both! Imho, the concept of the Master of the Nativity and all that follows, (predominator, lord, bounds) perhaps fell out of use because, apart from its intricacy and uncertainty (since antiquity) in calculation, it ends up indicating planets that are already significant in your chart. In particular, the significance of the Sun, Moon and Ascendant sign is already great and recognized in both Eastern and Western traditions for centuries. Their significance is then transmitted to the domicile rulers of their sign placement. So, these planets were already paid attention through simpler means, and the calculations of the predominator and everything else that follows became too much work for information that have already have been acquired. Though one could argue that the "ship allegory" of the chart, might come from a much older and richer Babylonian or Egyptian tradition (Ra in the solar boat), where other factors and parallels explained it further, and the whole string of calculations made sense to reveal something deeper, for as you noted near the end, it would be counterintuitive to do such hard work to reduce all interpretation to a single planet, unless it would have a very particular significance, in that system of interpretation. Though that is more a product of imagination and speculation rather than anything else. Thanks again for your amazing job!!!
I’m so glad I randomly picked this episode to listen to again, even though my life experiences while listening to it were the worst. (Really bad work week). It lost me last time. Thank god for your episode website also. One part that lost me was sun and moon are cadent, falling back on asc, it’s ruler is combust sun. In equal houses both sun and moon move (11th and 5th), but sun is a sect light so.. however, if it’s JUST the ascendant, that’s worth looking at as predominator. Master of the nativity gets interesting. Ascendant and ruler of ascendant are both in mars bounds, mars is angular in equal houses. That’s “iffy”, worth breaking down pattern wise. Lord of nativity, it could be jupiter being in 11th. (Empty 10th), domicile goes back to ascendant lord in 12th. Second approach, there is Saturn in the 1st in mercury bounds that rules the ascendant, it’s also the lord of the moon. Jupiter is lord of fortune, sun is lord of the prenatal lunation, but the bound lord is Jupiter. I don’t know heliacal rising as all.. fun. This may be worth really looking at. One thing I didn’t appreciate until very recently is having all planets in “sect” in my natal chart. There’s definitely something strange with sun, Saturn, and Jupiter experience wise that I’ve wanted to look at but never gotten around to. I’m in the “you can’t change fate” camp, I’m not sure I’d look much into that part. If I had to read a chart, I’d approach it in a way where they’d learn to read it themselves. I’m testing out different easy to use apps, astro gold had an essential dignities option that I like, but it only uses 1 triplicity lord where I think you’d want to use 2 or all 3. Sun and Venus score the highest (tied), but I don’t think that’s the case. I’m sort of typing this out to keep a copy to look at later, I do also wonder if, by modern perspective, if angular is as important. Though, I do think the Hellenistic revival is amazing, there’s obviously signals traditional was also about studying data found where modern has a lot of data also. Quadrants as default makes it messy, but it’s still data. My own chart, there’s a lot of cadent placements. Traditionally: Sun, Mercury, moon. Jupiter, Venus and mars are succedent (Venus/mars in aversion). Then the happy fun time 1st house Saturn, but I think the 6th is WAY worse than the 12th. The 12th, in many ways, is liberating in terms of a bit of freedom. The 6th moon actually adds this unwanted elements of actually wanting to be helpful instead of just going off into some life long retreat. Well, the 2nd house emphasis also stops that. 😂 The 12th can make a person kinda “jumpy” about 12th house situations but it ends up (in many cases) being nice. But that can also just be a 12th sun in domicile thing. That lord of the nativity is messy, but I’d have to say, I may look at this much closer more on what’s angular and angular strength (equal or Valens method of counting angular degree points). There’s a weird pattern related to themes with Jupiter, Venus/mars in libra, and Saturn where it’s like Saturn is being “protected”. My votes are these masters/lords are these and maybe sun or mercury.
I have been enjoying how clearly educational your videos are, but im having trouble with my predominator, and i hope you'd help me out. Im an aries rising, my sun is in libra above the desc and my moon is in sagitarius at the 8th house (im using porphyry), which is succedent and almost cadent. I cant figure which one should i choose, since you have an example that even the luminary is more angular you chose the luminary that is succeedent since it is closer to the east. Can you tell me if my sun or my moon is my predominator?
Hi Chris, Can you please go over the MC point in a future video and make a more detailed explanation? It'stThe part about varying MC points in different house systems... If you have mentioned in another podcast, would you let me know which one it was? ( 1:04:32 )
Master of the Household is a better translation than Master of the House. The "Household" consists of all who live in the house/chart, all the planets.
Yes! I try to whenever I can, that's why I always note the date and time at the beginning. I have greater or lesser flexibility sometimes though, so sometimes I just have to settle for the most acceptable option.
@@TheAstrologyPodcast Yes, I noticed that you would note the date and time but I didn't think that you scheduled recording around it too! I suppose I should try to do that more often when possible :) Generally I only do retrospective astrological analysis of events. Maybe next time I give myself a quarantine haircut I should time it for when Venus is well aspected and is the ascendant ruler haha.
Thanks. I have one friend. If I had to describe him with only one planet, it would be definitely Mercury. He is communicative, intelligent. He write, study, travel a lot. But his Mercury in his horoscope is not dominant, strong. He even hasn´t ASC, Sun or Moon in Virgo or Gemini. But the ruler of the ASC bound is Mercury. So according to the second rule, it would be the master of the nativity. This can explain, why he is so mercurial.
By switching from Placidus to Whole House my sun moved from the 6th house to 7th house. I was born in early August in NYC at 8:27 PM. That time in NYC in that month is still daylight. Placidus had me born after sunset. Whole House me just above the horizon in daylight.This makes a big difference in determining the ruler of the nativity. ... Also I believe that house systems are reflexive, that is, our use of one system makes that system work,. Switching to another system then that system begins to work. In effect our consciousness affects how our birth chart works. ... . I prefer my sun in the 7th, not the 6th. The new 4th house also made much more sense, with Saturn in the 4th being a good indicator of my distance, despite good relationships, from my family of origin. In fact when I went to a cousin's funeral (prodded by a brother who insisted after years of no contact on getting in touch with me), everyone remarked close I was to my brother and my cousins and nephews and nieces. Our interactuion were warm, full of light laughter. Lol, this impression of "closeness" came with my having having had no contact with any of them for over 30 years, and none after the funeral. But yes, when we lived near each other and I was in contact we got along really well. There are no political hostilities in my large extended families. Everyone is pragmatically liberal or pragmatically moderately conservative, or aspirationally Social Democratic. That may be because the majority of our relative are still in Europe. Most of us, including me, have had long warm pleasant visits with the European relatives. no contact afterweards for me of course. The Saturn in the 4th house is exactly square my ascendant but otherwise not afflicted. We lived in realative poverrty but all our needs were well taken care of, including higher education (the NYC excellent colleges were free of tuition at that time and I went to a private University on scholarship). And the 5th house Jupiter (rather than the 4th) makes far morecsense for me even though my partents' families and their ancestors were prosperous and there is at least one really prominent and influential ancestor.. The families were properous despite being tenant farmers but their enlightened klandlord gave rare leases that in effect made the farms profitable businnesses that rented for a "mall." They paid rent incash and made quite a lot of profit fronm their farms and kept that profit. They also hsad the viote because the vote was dependent on property ownership and those leases were the equivalent in BRitish law to ownership. Very very rare leases. So Jupiter seemed to fit. But Saturn fisb bttter, including bits association with farming. The Iris relatibves now incoude some very rich branches but the heiress to the riches gave away her quite large inheritance to the poor.
Hey! What's if it is a day chart, moon is declining in the 9th, but the sun is declining in the 12th - would the sun become the predominator since it is more eastern than the moon in the 9th? Or just the fact that both are declining, it defaults to the ascendant? @1:36:09
So in the end which house system did you decide to use for this exercise? Also, if both luminaries are in angular houses, the one closest to the ascendant wins right? What if it’s Gemini rising and mercury is conjunct the asc? But the sun is also in the 1st house but not in Gemini, but in cancer?
Not sure if I totally understood how you determine the Guardian Spirit (daimon), is it possible to clarify or was the conclusion that it was through seance or magic that one can communicate to the daimon in connection to the Master of Nativity? I suppose I'm asking for some basic clarity here... :-) x HC
Great episode!!! Just a question, do you relate the master of the nativity as the daimon (spirit) with the lot of spirit? It happens to be that the master that in my case is Mercury at 24 gem, is at the same degree that my LoS is located, both in the first house. Just curious.
Am I missing something after watching twice? Can a luminary be the Master as well as Predominator? My Sun in 10th house in Leo checks all the boxes but - ack! Is that a thing?
I loved this presentation. Applying this to my chart is complicated though for the Predominator: Sun in 4th, Moon in 7th. So a night chart but Sun is most eastern... Sun or Moon ? But then, the Sun rules the sign where the Moon is located so.... :-D I don't know anymore...
Thanks for the video! Maybe you could try putting aside lecture notes and having Leisa lead the interview as an interviewer, so there's more dialogue and possibly(?) a shorter video (if you want that).
@Pluto in Capricorn It was an excellent and generous talk. My suggestion was because they've expressed a desire to make their talks a bit less lengthy at times (e.g. they wanted it to be no longer than 2 hours). All good regardless. Best wishes
What if both sun and moon are cadent - in 6th and 12th whole sign house (5th and 12th in quadrant & equal) but you're Leo rising. Does that mean the Sun is the master of nativity? Or the dispositior of the sign? I do resonate with Sun a lot! Not much with the sign though...
A little help please! So what if both luminaries are in Leo in twelfth house? My rising sign is 3,16 Virgo and the most Eastern planets are Mars in 29,10 in Leo and venus in Virgo 11,02 in first
So when searching for the Lord of the Nativity should I focus on whole sign or quadrant houses in regards to angularity? This wasn't clear from the video.
Question: what about the sign the luminary is in? My sun is 2nd house in Aquarius, in its detriment, but succeedant and more angular. My moon is in the 6th house. Is the sun still predominate?
I have learned to take the dominate modality & dominate element totals will give you a signature sign. I also use the ruler of the first house Ascendant ruler rules the entire chart so Cancer Rising would be the Moon as your chart ruler. Your personality changes every time the Moon changes signs every 2.5days I speak from experience having a Scorpio Moon in the 5th Trine Ascendant.
I'm confused. I have Sun and Moon below the horizon, Sun in 3rd House and Moon in 4th, meaning the Sun is closer to the East. Yet, if I decide not to use whole signs (I'm currently agnostic), the Sun is significantly closer the the southern angle itself. So what's important here - angular houses or the angles themselves?
I have so many questions…if the chart is night, and the moon is conjunct the mid heaven which falls in the 9th on a whole sign chart, the 9th takes on all the characteristics of the 10th, does it also take on the angularity of the 10th? Or would the sun which is closer to the eastern part of the chart but also in a cadent house that contains the ic be pulled into the 4th? Or would everything revert to the asc?
For T S Eliot, I feel like his Sun could’ve been taken as predominator as well and it would’ve worked out, seeing as that would make Venus his master and Venus was also conjunct his ASC, and poetry is considered as artistic as painting.
So to find the predominantor in a day chart with moon in the 5th and sun in the 8th, (using porphyry or equal). So would the asc be the predominantor? Or the sun because of sect?
I'm still a bit confused about mine. My sun is in the first house just 8 degrees below the horizon. So that's Sun in a Night chart and my moon is in the 12th house. But since Sun is in the first (angular house) does that mean Sun still wins out?
I am a novice, but that seems right, or would we default to ascendant ruler? My chart is also tricky, sun in the 9th, moon in the 7th. Sun in day, closer to the east, 9th is declining though, and 7th is angular, but setting. Fun to use and play with. Great podcast! 🙏🏿🙌🏿
If I understand correctly even though it’s a night chart since your sun is in an angular house you would go with the sun. However, the house your sun is in and the house your ascendent is in is one and the same. Whatever planet rules the sign of your first house would be the master of the nativity. Hope this helps and that I understand the concept correctly.
I understand that divination and archetypal interpretations transcend time and mundane affairs and hence don't need precise coordinates to reveal truth but when we do mundane or horary it concerns human affairs on earth and need concrete positions to be efficient predictions.
I have a case in which I feel angularity "wins" but I'm not sure. Day chart. Sun in the 12th (cadent) Moon in the 7th (angular), but moon the very western part of the chart. 🤔 If angularity wins moon is the victor, but the other two factors? Does this means low vitality? Because even if the moon is angular has not sect and is in the west...
It’s crazy that if I’m using Porphyry’s houses, then both of my Sun and Moon are in the succedent 8th house because I’m a late degree Aries rising (like in Linda Goodman’s example chart, her asc is actually at 22°, mine is 23°) and both of my luminaries are in the first half of Sagittarius. So I have Day Chart then the Sun wins out as the Predominator, making Jupiter the Master of the Nativity for me. But if I use whole sign houses, my chart will fit that example where both luminaries are in cadent 9th house and the ascendant wins as the Predominator, therefore making Mars the Master of the Nativity. Of course I rather stick with the first option where Jupiter is the Master because not only Jupiter is the most positive benefic for me, being a Day Chart, but also it’s conjunct my ascendant within 2 degrees, just below the degree of the ascendant, so it’s good for it to be eastern + angular and having some type of dignity i think, being in a fire sign, and of course it’s the dispositor of the luminaries. Whereas Mars is way more challenging because it’s the malefic out of sect in the 11th whole sign house, it’s applying within a 3° orb to a square aspect to Saturn rx and receiving another more widely square but still applying within 7° from Venus. I do recognized that Mars and Jupiter themes plays big roles for me but for the sake of the Master of the Nativity for me Jupiter is way more preferable, it’s actually the main source of goodness in my chart so Im like honored to have it as my Guardian Angel lol. Complex amazing episode thank you
It’s funny tho that if using the second approach, Mars is both Master and Co-Master for me, also like Linda Goodman’s hahaha interesting, but in my case Mars is very afflicted by those aspects i mentioned and also very very close to the south node 💀
This is the most ambiguous situation I could find: if the Sun is in the 2nd and the Moon is in the 5th house of the quadrant system, then which is the predominator? Both are succedent, The Moon is the sect light, but in a western house, the Sun is not of the sect in favor, but in an eastern house. All seems equal, so what is the criterium that is most important here?
In a night chart with Sun in the fourth Moon in the seventh What luminary is the predominator? Sun is closer to the asc, but moon is according to the sect. I’m leaning towards moon according to the explanation but I’m not sure 🤔
Pluto is my chart ruler even though i'm a Gemini Sun. My life has been about transformation of trauma personally and ancestrally. Also starting my work as a healer.
If you understand the master of nativity as some kind of gate or opening, you can reconcile the idea of it being allotted. As if you won a house in a lottery it still has a door by which you can leave it. As daimons are intermediaries between gods and humans, doors are intermediaries between outside and inside.
Wow! Thank you so much! It's funny. My chart is very straightforward! Lol! Capricorn Sun in the 12th at 1° (1st house in whole house), Leo moon, and Capricorn rising with Uranus, Neptune, and my North Node in the 1st house as well. Saturn is most definitely the ruler of my chart! Lol! Restrictions, restrictions, restrictions...
The moon is more eastern and that is the second most important factor after angularity. The moon would be your predominator. That is my take after watching the video 3x
Well. I’m clearly now semi obsessed over looking into this nativity scene as I have the AMAZING INSTANCE of the ascendant ruler, Mercury followed by the moon and sun in a day chart in my 9th house. With Mercury “technically” being closest to the mid heaven , and most eastern, but not there yet. Maybe fidgeting with the different house systems will declare one as the ultimate winner. I’ll keep you posted❤️ maybe I will intuitively simply declare it Mercury since it’s so close to my 10th house of Gemini, a friendly co ruler of my ascendant? Idk. I’ll keep you posted. Feel free to discern this as needed Astro fam.
What if the Moon is in the 1st house but below the ascendant degree in a day chart, and the Sun is in the 11th house? Would the Moon be the predominator or the Sun? I'm thinking the Moon, even though it's out of sect, because it's more eastern and more angular... Cheers!
Wow... amazing, my moon is the predominator at 0 deg 18 sec in the 10th house Pisces in a day chart... Sun exalted in 11th house Aries, Gemini ascendant... I have many Aries characteristics (I have a stellium there)... but Jupiter, in detriment in Virgo, conjunct the South Node, Uranus and Pluto, is my chart ruler.... that's amazing and makes perfect sense! Brilliant, thank you so much, I have struggled so much trying to really understand this!
So out of my sun (which is also the ruler of the ASC) and moon: 1. Sun is sect ruler 2. In whole sign houses, sun is in the 12th and moon is in the 5th (in placidus, sun is in the 11th and moon in the 4th); so either way moon is more angular 3. Sun is most eastern So is it sun or does moon overtake the sun due to the angle? For finding the predominator. I think it's the sun but I want to be sure.
Thank you for this it came at a perfect time where I was questioning this topic. I still don't think I believe in the idea of a chart ruler based on this video our any other information that I've learned or experienced. Since I'm a New Moon eclipse native with my ascendant being also in the same sign, Leo. So Leo Sun and Moon conjunct in the 12th house(Cadent house at least when dealing with non-whole sign house system). So then ascendant would be predominator. And rising is in the sign of the Sun seems simple enough but just doesn't fit right maybe it's because my moon is closer to my ascendant than the Sun? Anyways I appreciate this talk and your brilliance Chris and it would have been nice to have a short introduction for your guest. It seems as though she's been in other videos so maybe that's why it's lacking but I would have appreciated it as a thank you to her for being on there as a woman mostly sitting and listening to you.
In my case (a night chart), the Moon is in the 4th house, and in conjunction with the I.C. The Moon is in an angular house, and that would suggest that she is the Master of the Nativity ( Oikodespotes genesseos). But Mercury is there too, and very well-aspected. Mars is in his own sign, but in the second house, and not ideally-aspected. It looks like the Moon is the master here.
In all methods Mars is master in my chart (day, sun in 10th in Aries or ASC Cancer, Mars bounds on ascendant, moon in Scorpio, so still Mars). I have Mars conjunct MC. Mars made sure it was known. All roads lead to Mars. Feels like 6 degrees of separation with Mars (haha my ASC is 6 degrees Cancer so quite literally if I use equal houses 😉 🙃).
Interesting implications for length of life potentially if you believe in astrocartography/relocation astrology and how it impacts the orientation of the natal chart. Certain locations may better allow us to thrive than others.
I have a night chart with sun in 5th house and moon in six house. So my sun is the predominator , is that correct?Really enjoy your podcasts, thank you for sharing.
Hey if anyone can help me out.. Because my rising is 29 degrees, using whole sign move my sun from 12H to 1H. My time of birth is nearly 9am, so is mine a Day chart? But my Sun is 1H though?? Going by whole sign, my Sun is 1H, Moon is 10H.. Who is the predominator?
I have not studied enough to weigh in correctly or concisely, but my life has never made more sense! I have Leo rising, in the cockpit, with Jupiter in the 1st house….he’s jamming at the helm with Rob Zombie’s 1965, yeah!!! An optimist, tough, curious, bouncing off the walls that “bound”….everybody else is in my 9th & 10th houses in Aries and Taurus…serving Venus, the Captain….generally more practical and down to earth. But, wherever Leo takes us, Venus wants to prettify it…..But I am pretty sure the owner of the ship is getting tired of this….I am not really sure what’s going on but, Pluto, Uranus, and Neptune live in the bowels of the space craft and I somehow detect they are influencing Leo’’s wandering. I am grateful the practical officer’s of this ship are at 12 o’clock….but this podcast has given me a better visual of my ride.
Revisited this one due to wanting to get back to considering a psychological viewpoint/hypothesis. Sun and moon in 12th/6th then ruler of ascendant is 12th. Equal, moon is 5th. Yet, I feel like in terms of “steering”, Mercury is obvious. Once shifting to whole signs, Saturn in virgo is more “identifying”. Then, I can’t help but say in terms of the concept of daimon the ruler of lot of spirit makes sense on a level of subconscious (conscious/subconscious/unconscious). Do I relate to Saturn in virgo because it rules moon? 🤔 It’s interesting, all I know is focusing on black moon lilith started putting me in a bad moon so I stopped, found it humorous the likely significations started coming up homing in on it. I’m just curious if the Kabbalah references to lilith and the dragon in relation to Saturn relates to Saturn and rahu/Ketu conjunctions in transits. I’m still considering if 1-4-7-10th are “conscious” houses and rest are more unconscious to where quadrant systems work because things mix psychologically, aspects to the ruler of spirit are the driving force. Then what’s discussed here relates to conscious drivers. As the week goes on I get more drowsy, so I’ll fall into a coma at the introspective rate I’m going. 😆 I’ve never related to sun sign astrology, tossing in Mercury as possible is sort of a lateral move. I can relate by description of a 12th sun/Mercury.. it’ll just go in circles. In other methods, Venus comes out on top. Yet, others will describe a libra (which Venus is in) but spirit ruler is conjunct. “Connecting to daimon”, I tend to find that most often by houses tied to the ruler, but Venus/mars in conjunction leaves 4 houses, they end up in the 2nd where I can just pay attention to what it’s accumulating. Then, couldn’t you say that about anyone? Maybe. If I keep going I’ll start dozing off. What I do know is timing techniques work. The philosophy/idealism seems to relate to experience/learning through material existence along with reincarnation where, in very special cases, a person can recall an afterlife. Either near death experience or through said reincarnation process. Even not knowing astrology well, I knew (at some point) I’d reach this cancer ZR way before ever having an interest, I’d say it was “self fulfilling prophecy”. In my taurus release, I knew what was described in my gemini which was necessary for the cancer release, yet, was extremely frustrated by how long that period was taking. Being pulled into a deep dive pointed at how long periods were. I had two short periods, a long gemini, to a long cancer. How’d I know that? No clue. Looking at others charts, I feel pretty “privileged” to have two short ZR periods early on.
Wow, thanks for this. I nearly propitiated hades instead of mercury with this morning's fire. However, I managed to wait for the propitious time to sing a bit of sanskrit and the results appear far from trivial.
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00:03:37 Starting point is the Master of Naitivity
00:03:48 Slide: One Planet to Rule Them all
00:07:22 Slide: a Fragment from Petosiris on the Master (from Vettius Valens)
00:14:01 Slide: a Fragment from Petosiris on the Master (from Vettius Valens)
00:14:57 Slide: Surviving Treatment of Porphyry
00:23:08 Diagram: Chronology of works on the Master of the Nativity
00:28:52 Slide: Porphyry on the Rulers of the Nativity
00:34:32 >> Calculations of rulers according to Porphyry
00:34:42 Slide: How to find the Predominator [ἐπικρατήτωρ / epikratētōr]
00:36:18 Similar to the medieval concept of Almuten
00:38:24 Slide: How to find the Predominator (3 factors for the luminaries)
00:39:18 Diagram: Finding the Sect (Day/Night Charts)
00:41:15 Angular luminary is preferred over less angular one
00:43:05 The Luminary that is more eastern (closer to ASC) is preferred.
00:43:48 Diagram: Explaining East vs. West in a chart
00:48:34 Slide: Use of Equal and Quadrant Houses
01:01:38 Quadrant House based East/West question
01:04:00 Quadrant Houses divide the chart into East and West
01:04:30 Diagram: Meridian vs. Whole sign 10th house
01:05:09 Diagram: Three different midheavens (Meridian, 10th whole sign, 90° from ASC - Nonagesimal)
01:09:13 Diagram: Finding the Sect (Day/Night Charts)
01:15:52 Diagram: Jupiter Rising & reaches Highest Elevation
01:22:00 Examples from Porphyry
01:22:16 Diagram of Porphyry example
01:22:26 Chart: Sun in 1st house, Day chart (Porphyry example)
01:24:27 Chart: Moon in 1st house, Night chart (Porphyry example)
01:25:04 Chart: Moon in 1st or 2nd, Sun in 9th, Day chart (Porphyry example)
01:27:14 Chart: Sun in 2nd, Moon in 9th, Night chart
01:30:49 Chart: Night Chart, Moon in 9th, Sun in 2nd
01:30:56 Chart: Night Chart, Sun/Moon below horizon
01:32:14 Chart: Night Chart, Sun angular, Moon in Cadent house
01:33:19 Chart: Day Chart, Moon & Sun in Cadent 9th
01:34:07 Slide: Summarizing Predomination
01:34:58 Can there be a tie? If the Sect wins out? Equally angual, equally estern?
01:35:19 Chart: Night Chart, Sun 4th, Moon in 4th or 5th house
01:36:21 If equal, will degree of angularity matter?
01:39:11 >> The master of the nativity [οἰκοδεσπότης γενέσεως / oikodespotēs geneseōs]
01:39:57 Chart: First method of Determining the Master
01:40:50 The Master of the Nativity is the domicile lord of the Predominator
01:41:27 Chart showing sign/planet rulerships
01:52:17 Chart: T. S. Eliot (Moon Predominator / Mercury Master)
01:55:34 Chart: Salvador Dali (Sun Predominator / Venus Master)
01:57:04 Chart: Linda Goodman (Sun Predominator / Mars Master in Gemini 3rd house)
01:50:28 Slide: Ancient Character Interpretation (using Master)
02:04:21 Slide: Iamblichus on the Guardian Spirit
02:06:02 Slide: Rhetorius on Venus as Master of the Nativity
02:08:05 Slide: Identifying the Guardian Spirit in Porphyry
02:21:56 >> Co-Master or the Joint Master of the Nativity [συνοικοδεσπότης / sunoikodespotēs]
02:22:22 Slide: Co-Master / Joint Master
02:22:59 The bound lord of the Predominator becomes the Co-Master of the Nativity
02:23:30 Terms / Bounds / Confines / (Ὅρια horia) (unequal sub-division of a sign)
02:23:42 Diagram: Bounds according to the Egyptians (hellenisticastrology.com/bounds.pdf)
02:28:32 Diagram: Table of Planetary Rulerships (www.hellenisticastrology.com/rulerships.pdf)
02:29:13 Slide: Use in the Length of Life Technique
02:33:00 Years associated with each of the Planets
02:35:02 Slide: Quote from Firmicus on the Master of the Nativity
02:38:00 Chart: T. S. Eliot (Predominator in Bounds of Venus Co-Master)
02:44:26 Slide: Second Method of Determining the Master
02:49:17 Chart: Franklin D. Roosevelt (ASC in Bounds of Mars)
02:52:08 Chart: Judy Blume
02:52:12 Chart: Linda Goodman
02:55:03 Slide: Summarizing the Role of the Master of the Nativity
02:55:51 Slide: Bonus Material: The Lord of the Nativity [κύριος / kurios]
02:59:00 Slide: First Approach to Determining the Lord
03:02:45 Slide: Second Approach to Determining the Lord (Candidates)
03:05:20 Slide: Second Approach to Determining the Lord (Citeria)
03:06:37 Slide: Difficult and Complex doctrine
03:07:47 Slide: Valens on the Master of the Nativity (critique on Petosiris)
03:13:45 Chris Brennan's Conclusion
03:13:50 Slide: Final Remarks
UR A GODSEND
Can't thank you enough.
🙏🏻 Sun in ♓️ Moon in ♋️ i have sun in 4th house. Im a Scorpio Rising born after midnight…Night Chart. 👍🏻
I should put more emphasis on the Moon sign?
@@user-rg4ef3kw7r This is interesting I just posted and long comment and immediately came accross yours. Unless your Sun is in your 10th house then I would agree that you would use your moon would be the predominater in your chart. Which I think would moon that the moon would also be the Master of your nativity. Anyway I am Pisces sun, Scorpio moon, Cancer rising. My moon would be my predominator (like you) but Mars would be the master of my nativity. (Karl)
@@linedancecentral my sun is in my 4th house.
chris: we're going to keep this short and concise
also chris: jupiter was on the ascendant when we started recording
😂
This was amazing
I laughed when that was said, as well as keeping it only to a couple hours -- definitely not more than three, lol
00:28:24
Leisa: "right, OK, I believe you, that's a good answer"
Chris: "OK, that's the long answer"
*both laugh*
Chris: "That's why you don't ask me good questions, because I will go on a 20 minute digression in order to answer, and we'll be here until 4 in the morning"
Leisa: "OK, let's not do that"
Chris: "OK, back to the presentation"
OMG 😂so adorable ❤
This is THE most comprehensive astrology podcast in existence, I appreciate Chris Brennan SO MUCH for sharing his ideas and learnings with us. Also, I love Leisa!!! Thank you both so much!!
Extraordinarily skilled, All around ASTLGR, makes me wonder if The All Powerful Unbeknowns have ever threatened CB wiff what they’ll call “Adjustments“ for opening the lid of what they also call there “mechanistic actuality” 🤫😵🧑🦯🤐🤝
"We're aiming for 2 hours..."
Video length - 3 hours, 22 minutes
I love you both, never change :P
As soon as he said that I checked the length because I would have been very surpised of they did stick to 2 hrs 😂 love it though!
I love the depth of information though!
HAHA! Always with these guys!
I actually prefer longer sets.. and clicked on this one bc of it
it's the "definitely not more than 3" for me
28:34 😂😂
I always enjoy the podcast. Chris is such an incredible gift to the Astrological community and the world at large. He will leave an indelible mark in the world. I'm so grateful for his work
In the middle of a pandemic, your videos and podcasts have been my best friend I don't have to 'social distance!' Bless you for all of your work!
Everyone deserves someone who like at Chris the way Leisa does. It is adorbs.
I never resonated with my Sun sign but based on this ancient exercise my Moon is my predominator. This makes so much sense because I’ve always resonated with my Moon. Quite fascinating indeed.
Mars as the Master of my nativity makes perfect sense. My Scorpio moon in the sign of the moon's fall fits me better than my Pisces sun. I worked for 29 years as a psychiatric nurse. I consistently identified better with the patients than "normal" people. I was very good at my job. I tended to be laid back and the patients recognized my allegiance to them and not to the administration of administrative directives. There was rarely violence on my units and when there was it was quickly contained. In the rest of my life, I always seem to bring out the worst in others especially my family and friends. Modern texts say things like "you have to remember that you often send out unconscious signals that cause others to act against you". This sounds like BS and makes little sense to me. When I think that Mars could be used to identify my guardian spirit... This makes a whole lot more sense to me. Perhaps one day I can be freed from my fate.
A piscies sun and scorpio moon wow!! What a cosmic connection
A truly excellent job. Congratulations. I just bought the book. It really is a pleasure when dedication and passion shows from the first to the last minute.
Very Interesting🌟
& I like Lisa's x-ray-like listening attention, gently sharp clarifying questions, and her plum-flame dark sense of humor💜
Random question. Might seem ridiculous, but I'm surprised no one has seemed to ever ask it. Might be an idea for a fun/loose episode of the podcast.
What if we lived on Mars? Would we develop a separate system of astrology with the same functions or can we just change a few calculations and swap Earth as a signifier for Mars?
Totally agree with Dani, this video is amazing. If you're struggling to stay with it, because of its duration, make sure NOT to skip the last 15 minutes where Chris puts it all into perspective. However, if you really want to know how to prioritize planets, rulers, etc. in any chart, you need to watch the whole thing I'm afraid. It's well worth your time :)
Leisa, I will never forgive you for this 😂 I have had the song Master of the House stuck in my head for HOURS after watching this podcast!
I find it amazing, how your new topics correspond almost perfectly to what information I am needing to know :)
Seek and ye shall find synchronicity ;)
@@vanaoi8014 I love you:)💚💚💚💚💚💚
Enjoyed watching Chris and Leisa on another stormy night here in California. I've spent some time looking into the techniques of determining the almuten figuris and found this presentation a nice addition to my studies. Sun is the predominator in my (night) chart and just so happens to share the ruler of my Ascendant and is also the co-Master via the bounds chart I downloaded. Thank you.
Chris I’m so thankful for your research in my astrology journey you are truly a great teacher
Keep wanting to share...I find u a really important addition to the astrology world...I am continuously impressed...thank you 💕🙏
I love you Chris! You do such amazing work and it’s changed my life!
I’m only 15 minutes in but this is already somewhat making sense to me. I’m Sag rising, with Capricorn Jupiter 2H opposing Cancer Sun 8H (both squaring Aries Saturn 5H). I didn’t grow up wealthy nor healthy. But due to this circumstance I invest a lot into my health in that I am able to feel my best and work hard. I take diff multivitamins & only cook my meals. My health is my wealth in that regard. I could see how these things would contribute to my overall appearance, outlook on life and/or my physical body.
With Saturn in the 5H, my confidence & ability to let loose is impeded primarily by my awareness to my physical health, but in this same case, my physical health could cause me to not let loose. I do not gamble, & do not like risking my financial matters in any sort. At times I do feel bound by my finances but to me it’s worth being emotionally secure.
Kevin Burke was the one who introduced me to the dispositor tree; My Gemini Mercury is very handy to me.
this was always interesting but now that I am years in and years deep this is soooo enjoyable and a great refresher, level up. Everything hits different with more experience. It really is powerful to stick with old techniques and keep it clear.
Really appreciate the thorough and thoughtful perspective that you offer! Very Saturnian! Thank you!
Thank you, Chris! You are Royalty! Love from Bulgaria !
Would L O V E to see YOUR chart!!! I've being listening and guessing about it simultaneously:-) You are an unbelivible deep and abundant source of astrological knowledge and thank you SO MUCH for sharing it the way you do!!!!! Hope I will be able to listen to all your podcasts in this life time🙂
Pretty sure Chris is a Scorpio with Aqua rising. If you listen to some of his other podcasts he does talk about it. I’ve never seen his whole chart though.
This was very interesting. It made me look at my chart in a whole new way. Thank you.
How do you determine predominator if the luminary is in a cadent house, but on the mc? I have a night chart, with the moon conjunct the mc in the twelfth house. My sun is in the fifth.
OK, now I really have to buy his book! Keep up the great work!
Very cool lecture/discussion. Learned who the master of my nativity is...and it does resonant with me as being dead on. Thanks for sharing this rediscovery
When I first started learning astrology in the mid70s, I was shown how to calculate my Star of Destiny. It is my staion point direct 9th house Venus which would be the same planet that would result in these calculations as my Master of Nativity. Sun conjunct MC in Taurus
A wonderful introductory explanation of the subject! Thank you both! Imho, the concept of the Master of the Nativity and all that follows, (predominator, lord, bounds) perhaps fell out of use because, apart from its intricacy and uncertainty (since antiquity) in calculation, it ends up indicating planets that are already significant in your chart. In particular, the significance of the Sun, Moon and Ascendant sign is already great and recognized in both Eastern and Western traditions for centuries. Their significance is then transmitted to the domicile rulers of their sign placement. So, these planets were already paid attention through simpler means, and the calculations of the predominator and everything else that follows became too much work for information that have already have been acquired. Though one could argue that the "ship allegory" of the chart, might come from a much older and richer Babylonian or Egyptian tradition (Ra in the solar boat), where other factors and parallels explained it further, and the whole string of calculations made sense to reveal something deeper, for as you noted near the end, it would be counterintuitive to do such hard work to reduce all interpretation to a single planet, unless it would have a very particular significance, in that system of interpretation. Though that is more a product of imagination and speculation rather than anything else. Thanks again for your amazing job!!!
Deepest Gratitude for graciously sharing your wisdom and knowledge!
I’m so glad I randomly picked this episode to listen to again, even though my life experiences while listening to it were the worst. (Really bad work week). It lost me last time. Thank god for your episode website also.
One part that lost me was sun and moon are cadent, falling back on asc, it’s ruler is combust sun. In equal houses both sun and moon move (11th and 5th), but sun is a sect light so.. however, if it’s JUST the ascendant, that’s worth looking at as predominator. Master of the nativity gets interesting. Ascendant and ruler of ascendant are both in mars bounds, mars is angular in equal houses. That’s “iffy”, worth breaking down pattern wise.
Lord of nativity, it could be jupiter being in 11th. (Empty 10th), domicile goes back to ascendant lord in 12th. Second approach, there is Saturn in the 1st in mercury bounds that rules the ascendant, it’s also the lord of the moon. Jupiter is lord of fortune, sun is lord of the prenatal lunation, but the bound lord is Jupiter. I don’t know heliacal rising as all.. fun.
This may be worth really looking at.
One thing I didn’t appreciate until very recently is having all planets in “sect” in my natal chart. There’s definitely something strange with sun, Saturn, and Jupiter experience wise that I’ve wanted to look at but never gotten around to.
I’m in the “you can’t change fate” camp, I’m not sure I’d look much into that part.
If I had to read a chart, I’d approach it in a way where they’d learn to read it themselves. I’m testing out different easy to use apps, astro gold had an essential dignities option that I like, but it only uses 1 triplicity lord where I think you’d want to use 2 or all 3. Sun and Venus score the highest (tied), but I don’t think that’s the case.
I’m sort of typing this out to keep a copy to look at later, I do also wonder if, by modern perspective, if angular is as important. Though, I do think the Hellenistic revival is amazing, there’s obviously signals traditional was also about studying data found where modern has a lot of data also. Quadrants as default makes it messy, but it’s still data. My own chart, there’s a lot of cadent placements. Traditionally: Sun, Mercury, moon. Jupiter, Venus and mars are succedent (Venus/mars in aversion). Then the happy fun time 1st house Saturn, but I think the 6th is WAY worse than the 12th. The 12th, in many ways, is liberating in terms of a bit of freedom. The 6th moon actually adds this unwanted elements of actually wanting to be helpful instead of just going off into some life long retreat. Well, the 2nd house emphasis also stops that. 😂
The 12th can make a person kinda “jumpy” about 12th house situations but it ends up (in many cases) being nice. But that can also just be a 12th sun in domicile thing.
That lord of the nativity is messy, but I’d have to say, I may look at this much closer more on what’s angular and angular strength (equal or Valens method of counting angular degree points). There’s a weird pattern related to themes with Jupiter, Venus/mars in libra, and Saturn where it’s like Saturn is being “protected”. My votes are these masters/lords are these and maybe sun or mercury.
I have been enjoying how clearly educational your videos are, but im having trouble with my predominator, and i hope you'd help me out. Im an aries rising, my sun is in libra above the desc and my moon is in sagitarius at the 8th house (im using porphyry), which is succedent and almost cadent. I cant figure which one should i choose, since you have an example that even the luminary is more angular you chose the luminary that is succeedent since it is closer to the east. Can you tell me if my sun or my moon is my predominator?
At that point I'd just choose my ascendence, both your sun and moon seem very weak (talking about the three points he made)
Podcast about technique dealing lenght of the live would be great :)
Hi Chris, Can you please go over the MC point in a future video and make a more detailed explanation? It'stThe part about varying MC points in different house systems... If you have mentioned in another podcast, would you let me know which one it was? ( 1:04:32 )
Master of the Household is a better translation than Master of the House. The "Household" consists of all who live in the house/chart, all the planets.
Does anyone know what are some examples of applications of this technique?
Almost 2 years late here, but do you start every podcast with an auspicious ascendant? I love that lol
Yes! I try to whenever I can, that's why I always note the date and time at the beginning. I have greater or lesser flexibility sometimes though, so sometimes I just have to settle for the most acceptable option.
@@TheAstrologyPodcast Yes, I noticed that you would note the date and time but I didn't think that you scheduled recording around it too! I suppose I should try to do that more often when possible :) Generally I only do retrospective astrological analysis of events. Maybe next time I give myself a quarantine haircut I should time it for when Venus is well aspected and is the ascendant ruler haha.
Thanks. I have one friend. If I had to describe him with only one planet, it would be definitely Mercury. He is communicative, intelligent. He write, study, travel a lot. But his Mercury in his horoscope is not dominant, strong. He even hasn´t ASC, Sun or Moon in Virgo or Gemini. But the ruler of the ASC bound is Mercury. So according to the second rule, it would be the master of the nativity. This can explain, why he is so mercurial.
By switching from Placidus to Whole House my sun moved from the 6th house to 7th house. I was born in early August in NYC at 8:27 PM. That time in NYC in that month is still daylight. Placidus had me born after sunset. Whole House me just above the horizon in daylight.This makes a big difference in determining the ruler of the nativity. ... Also I believe that house systems are reflexive, that is, our use of one system makes that system work,. Switching to another system then that system begins to work. In effect our consciousness affects how our birth chart works. ... . I prefer my sun in the 7th, not the 6th. The new 4th house also made much more sense, with Saturn in the 4th being a good indicator of my distance, despite good relationships, from my family of origin. In fact when I went to a cousin's funeral (prodded by a brother who insisted after years of no contact on getting in touch with me), everyone remarked close I was to my brother and my cousins and nephews and nieces. Our interactuion were warm, full of light laughter. Lol, this impression of "closeness" came with my having having had no contact with any of them for over 30 years, and none after the funeral. But yes, when we lived near each other and I was in contact we got along really well. There are no political hostilities in my large extended families. Everyone is pragmatically liberal or pragmatically moderately conservative, or aspirationally Social Democratic. That may be because the majority of our relative are still in Europe. Most of us, including me, have had long warm pleasant visits with the European relatives. no contact afterweards for me of course. The Saturn in the 4th house is exactly square my ascendant but otherwise not afflicted. We lived in realative poverrty but all our needs were well taken care of, including higher education (the NYC excellent colleges were free of tuition at that time and I went to a private University on scholarship). And the 5th house Jupiter (rather than the 4th) makes far morecsense for me even though my partents' families and their ancestors were prosperous and there is at least one really prominent and influential ancestor.. The families were properous despite being tenant farmers but their enlightened klandlord gave rare leases that in effect made the farms profitable businnesses that rented for a "mall." They paid rent incash and made quite a lot of profit fronm their farms and kept that profit. They also hsad the viote because the vote was dependent on property ownership and those leases were the equivalent in BRitish law to ownership. Very very rare leases. So Jupiter seemed to fit. But Saturn fisb bttter, including bits association with farming. The Iris relatibves now incoude some very rich branches but the heiress to the riches gave away her quite large inheritance to the poor.
Hey! What's if it is a day chart, moon is declining in the 9th, but the sun is declining in the 12th - would the sun become the predominator since it is more eastern than the moon in the 9th? Or just the fact that both are declining, it defaults to the ascendant? @1:36:09
Probably Asc
Hello 😊 Let’s say Day chart .Sun conjuct MC , Moon conjuct Asc.Sun in Virgo, Moon In Sagittarius.Which luminary is the Predominator?
So in the end which house system did you decide to use for this exercise? Also, if both luminaries are in angular houses, the one closest to the ascendant wins right? What if it’s Gemini rising and mercury is conjunct the asc? But the sun is also in the 1st house but not in Gemini, but in cancer?
Not sure if I totally understood how you determine the Guardian Spirit (daimon), is it possible to clarify or was the conclusion that it was through seance or magic that one can communicate to the daimon in connection to the Master of Nativity? I suppose I'm asking for some basic clarity here... :-)
x HC
Great episode!!! Just a question, do you relate the master of the nativity as the daimon (spirit) with the lot of spirit? It happens to be that the master that in my case is Mercury at 24 gem, is at the same degree that my LoS is located, both in the first house. Just curious.
Am I missing something after watching twice? Can a luminary be the Master as well as Predominator? My Sun in 10th house in Leo checks all the boxes but - ack! Is that a thing?
Yes
Thank you!
I like how you guys discuss topics together-very smooth and complimentary!! LOVE THIS TOPIC. thanks for sharing you two!
The ruler of my moon is my Master - I have a similar situation to TS Elliot. My Master is also the ruler of my ascendent. Interesting!
I loved this presentation. Applying this to my chart is complicated though for the Predominator: Sun in 4th, Moon in 7th. So a night chart but Sun is most eastern... Sun or Moon ? But then, the Sun rules the sign where the Moon is located so.... :-D I don't know anymore...
Thanks for the video! Maybe you could try putting aside lecture notes and having Leisa lead the interview as an interviewer, so there's more dialogue and possibly(?) a shorter video (if you want that).
@Pluto in Capricorn It was an excellent and generous talk. My suggestion was because they've expressed a desire to make their talks a bit less lengthy at times (e.g. they wanted it to be no longer than 2 hours). All good regardless. Best wishes
agreed! "mhmm" and "right" and "yeah" is so repetitive
Really useful episode, TY.
What if both sun and moon are cadent - in 6th and 12th whole sign house (5th and 12th in quadrant & equal) but you're Leo rising.
Does that mean the Sun is the master of nativity? Or the dispositior of the sign?
I do resonate with Sun a lot! Not much with the sign though...
A little help please! So what if both luminaries are in Leo in twelfth house? My rising sign is 3,16 Virgo and the most Eastern planets are Mars in 29,10 in Leo and venus in Virgo 11,02 in first
Asc is predominator
Thank you for this - I have been looking forward to the Master of the Nativity.
Oh. My. God. I feel like I just crawled out of a very long lecture of advanced chemistry ;)
Invaluable - thank you both
So when searching for the Lord of the Nativity should I focus on whole sign or quadrant houses in regards to angularity? This wasn't clear from the video.
Question: what about the sign the luminary is in? My sun is 2nd house in Aquarius, in its detriment, but succeedant and more angular. My moon is in the 6th house. Is the sun still predominate?
The sign placement doesn't seem to matter here)
*THIS IS TRULY DIVINE* 🙏💞
I have learned to take the dominate modality & dominate element totals will give you a signature sign. I also use the ruler of the first house Ascendant ruler rules the entire chart so Cancer Rising would be the Moon as your chart ruler. Your personality changes every time the Moon changes signs every 2.5days I speak from experience having a
Scorpio Moon in the 5th Trine Ascendant.
what if the moon is the Predomanator but in the sign of leo whice is rule by the sun
Always a brilliant discussion. Thank you. 💓
I don't understand why some are interested in learning how or when they will die.
Thankyou for this. How can we donate Chris? Would like to support the channel
Thank you! The best way to donate or support the channel is through our page on Patreon: www.patreon.com/astrologypodcast
I'm confused. I have Sun and Moon below the horizon, Sun in 3rd House and Moon in 4th, meaning the Sun is closer to the East. Yet, if I decide not to use whole signs (I'm currently agnostic), the Sun is significantly closer the the southern angle itself. So what's important here - angular houses or the angles themselves?
Oh, you addressed that lol
I guess I'm going to have to do some good old fashioned trial and error.
Moon is probably predominator because it's night chart and she's angular
"We're gonna keep this one short and concise, definitely not more than 3 hours"
*3 hours and 22 minutes later...*
😂
I have so many questions…if the chart is night, and the moon is conjunct the mid heaven which falls in the 9th on a whole sign chart, the 9th takes on all the characteristics of the 10th, does it also take on the angularity of the 10th? Or would the sun which is closer to the eastern part of the chart but also in a cadent house that contains the ic be pulled into the 4th? Or would everything revert to the asc?
Asc is most likely to be a predominator since both luminaries are cadent
For T S Eliot, I feel like his Sun could’ve been taken as predominator as well and it would’ve worked out, seeing as that would make Venus his master and Venus was also conjunct his ASC, and poetry is considered as artistic as painting.
So to find the predominantor in a day chart with moon in the 5th and sun in the 8th, (using porphyry or equal). So would the asc be the predominantor? Or the sun because of sect?
moon closer to the east, also close to the angular 4th, therefore moon should be the predominator
angularity trumps sect
@@tonyoconnell6012but Sun is also close to angle
I'm still a bit confused about mine. My sun is in the first house just 8 degrees below the horizon. So that's Sun in a Night chart and my moon is in the 12th house. But since Sun is in the first (angular house) does that mean Sun still wins out?
I am a novice, but that seems right, or would we default to ascendant ruler? My chart is also tricky, sun in the 9th, moon in the 7th. Sun in day, closer to the east, 9th is declining though, and 7th is angular, but setting. Fun to use and play with. Great podcast! 🙏🏿🙌🏿
If I understand correctly even though it’s a night chart since your sun is in an angular house you would go with the sun. However, the house your sun is in and the house your ascendent is in is one and the same. Whatever planet rules the sign of your first house would be the master of the nativity. Hope this helps and that I understand the concept correctly.
Yes Sun is predominator
I understand that divination and archetypal interpretations transcend time and mundane affairs and hence don't need precise coordinates to reveal truth but when we do mundane or horary it concerns human affairs on earth and need concrete positions to be efficient predictions.
It was fun to calculate this for me. As a libra rising with my sun in the 4th house and my moon in Leo in the 11th house.
I have a case in which I feel angularity "wins" but I'm not sure. Day chart. Sun in the 12th (cadent) Moon in the 7th (angular), but moon the very western part of the chart. 🤔 If angularity wins moon is the victor, but the other two factors? Does this means low vitality? Because even if the moon is angular has not sect and is in the west...
Same omg, Sun in 12h Moon in 10h, i don't know who's the predominator.
Thanks, really great episode! Very good co-operation with Leisa in terms of discussion :)
It’s crazy that if I’m using Porphyry’s houses, then both of my Sun and Moon are in the succedent 8th house because I’m a late degree Aries rising (like in Linda Goodman’s example chart, her asc is actually at 22°, mine is 23°) and both of my luminaries are in the first half of Sagittarius. So I have Day Chart then the Sun wins out as the Predominator, making Jupiter the Master of the Nativity for me. But if I use whole sign houses, my chart will fit that example where both luminaries are in cadent 9th house and the ascendant wins as the Predominator, therefore making Mars the Master of the Nativity. Of course I rather stick with the first option where Jupiter is the Master because not only Jupiter is the most positive benefic for me, being a Day Chart, but also it’s conjunct my ascendant within 2 degrees, just below the degree of the ascendant, so it’s good for it to be eastern + angular and having some type of dignity i think, being in a fire sign, and of course it’s the dispositor of the luminaries. Whereas Mars is way more challenging because it’s the malefic out of sect in the 11th whole sign house, it’s applying within a 3° orb to a square aspect to Saturn rx and receiving another more widely square but still applying within 7° from Venus. I do recognized that Mars and Jupiter themes plays big roles for me but for the sake of the Master of the Nativity for me Jupiter is way more preferable, it’s actually the main source of goodness in my chart so Im like honored to have it as my Guardian Angel lol. Complex amazing episode thank you
It’s funny tho that if using the second approach, Mars is both Master and Co-Master for me, also like Linda Goodman’s hahaha interesting, but in my case Mars is very afflicted by those aspects i mentioned and also very very close to the south node 💀
This is the most ambiguous situation I could find: if the Sun is in the 2nd and the Moon is in the 5th house of the quadrant system, then which is the predominator? Both are succedent, The Moon is the sect light, but in a western house, the Sun is not of the sect in favor, but in an eastern house. All seems equal, so what is the criterium that is most important here?
The ascendent? if both the moon and the sun are weak then the ascendent becomes the predominator automatically
In a night chart with
Sun in the fourth
Moon in the seventh
What luminary is the predominator?
Sun is closer to the asc, but moon is according to the sect. I’m leaning towards moon according to the explanation but I’m not sure 🤔
Probably Moon because it's both angular and of sect
Pluto is my chart ruler even though i'm a Gemini Sun. My life has been about transformation of trauma personally and ancestrally. Also starting my work as a healer.
If you understand the master of nativity as some kind of gate or opening, you can reconcile the idea of it being allotted. As if you won a house in a lottery it still has a door by which you can leave it.
As daimons are intermediaries between gods and humans, doors are intermediaries between outside and inside.
Wow! Thank you so much! It's funny. My chart is very straightforward! Lol! Capricorn Sun in the 12th at 1° (1st house in whole house), Leo moon, and Capricorn rising with Uranus, Neptune, and my North Node in the 1st house as well. Saturn is most definitely the ruler of my chart! Lol! Restrictions, restrictions, restrictions...
Cap sun and Saturn dominant as well. It has definately not been an easy life.
@@Crysta1986 It's tough, indeed. I'm just glad it's gonna be easier as we age. That's what's keeping me going 😆!
What if both luminaries are Cadent but one of them is in sect and more eastern vs the other (moon in 12, sun in 6)? Is it the Moon or the Ascendant?
The moon is more eastern and that is the second most important factor after angularity. The moon would be your predominator. That is my take after watching the video 3x
Well. I’m clearly now semi obsessed over looking into this nativity scene as I have the AMAZING INSTANCE of the ascendant ruler, Mercury followed by the moon and sun in a day chart in my 9th house. With Mercury “technically” being closest to the mid heaven , and most eastern, but not there yet. Maybe fidgeting with the different house systems will declare one as the ultimate winner. I’ll keep you posted❤️ maybe I will intuitively simply declare it Mercury since it’s so close to my 10th house of Gemini, a friendly co ruler of my ascendant? Idk. I’ll keep you posted. Feel free to discern this as needed Astro fam.
Trying to imagine Mars as my natal ruler as he was in Libra in the 12th. Ugh! Fun to think about and it fits.
What if the Moon is in the 1st house but below the ascendant degree in a day chart, and the Sun is in the 11th house? Would the Moon be the predominator or the Sun? I'm thinking the Moon, even though it's out of sect, because it's more eastern and more angular...
Cheers!
Moon
Thanks great stuff!!!!!
Wow... amazing, my moon is the predominator at 0 deg 18 sec in the 10th house Pisces in a day chart... Sun exalted in 11th house Aries, Gemini ascendant... I have many Aries characteristics (I have a stellium there)... but Jupiter, in detriment in Virgo, conjunct the South Node, Uranus and Pluto, is my chart ruler.... that's amazing and makes perfect sense! Brilliant, thank you so much, I have struggled so much trying to really understand this!
So out of my sun (which is also the ruler of the ASC) and moon:
1. Sun is sect ruler
2. In whole sign houses, sun is in the 12th and moon is in the 5th (in placidus, sun is in the 11th and moon in the 4th); so either way moon is more angular
3. Sun is most eastern
So is it sun or does moon overtake the sun due to the angle? For finding the predominator.
I think it's the sun but I want to be sure.
Literally same issue, Sun in 12h but Moon is angular in 10h, Sun is of sect and eastern, but Moon is angular
Thank you for this it came at a perfect time where I was questioning this topic. I still don't think I believe in the idea of a chart ruler based on this video our any other information that I've learned or experienced. Since I'm a New Moon eclipse native with my ascendant being also in the same sign, Leo. So Leo Sun and Moon conjunct in the 12th house(Cadent house at least when dealing with non-whole sign house system). So then ascendant would be predominator. And rising is in the sign of the Sun seems simple enough but just doesn't fit right maybe it's because my moon is closer to my ascendant than the Sun? Anyways I appreciate this talk and your brilliance Chris and it would have been nice to have a short introduction for your guest. It seems as though she's been in other videos so maybe that's why it's lacking but I would have appreciated it as a thank you to her for being on there as a woman mostly sitting and listening to you.
In my case (a night chart), the Moon is in the 4th house, and in conjunction with the I.C. The Moon is in an angular house, and that would suggest that she is the Master of the Nativity ( Oikodespotes genesseos). But Mercury is there too, and very well-aspected. Mars is in his own sign, but in the second house, and not ideally-aspected. It looks like the Moon is the master here.
In all methods Mars is master in my chart (day, sun in 10th in Aries or ASC Cancer, Mars bounds on ascendant, moon in Scorpio, so still Mars). I have Mars conjunct MC. Mars made sure it was known. All roads lead to Mars. Feels like 6 degrees of separation with Mars (haha my ASC is 6 degrees Cancer so quite literally if I use equal houses 😉 🙃).
Thanks!
Could this be linked to the enneagram type?
Interesting implications for length of life potentially if you believe in astrocartography/relocation astrology and how it impacts the orientation of the natal chart. Certain locations may better allow us to thrive than others.
I have a night chart with sun in 5th house and moon in six house. So my sun is the predominator , is that correct?Really enjoy your podcasts, thank you for sharing.
Seems so, since the 6th house is Cadent…but I’m not sure if it would revert to you ascendant for any reason
@@rebeccaw6253if Sun is in 12 and Moon in 10 then who is predominator?
I think my luminaries tie when finding the predominator.
Same
Hey if anyone can help me out..
Because my rising is 29 degrees, using whole sign move my sun from 12H to 1H.
My time of birth is nearly 9am, so is mine a Day chart? But my Sun is 1H though??
Going by whole sign, my Sun is 1H, Moon is 10H..
Who is the predominator?
I have not studied enough to weigh in correctly or concisely, but my life has never made more sense! I have Leo rising, in the cockpit, with Jupiter in the 1st house….he’s jamming at the helm with Rob Zombie’s 1965, yeah!!! An optimist, tough, curious, bouncing off the walls that “bound”….everybody else is in my 9th & 10th houses in Aries and Taurus…serving Venus, the Captain….generally more practical and down to earth. But, wherever Leo takes us, Venus wants to prettify it…..But I am pretty sure the owner of the ship is getting tired of this….I am not really sure what’s going on but, Pluto, Uranus, and Neptune live in the bowels of the space craft and I somehow detect they are influencing Leo’’s wandering. I am grateful the practical officer’s of this ship are at 12 o’clock….but this podcast has given me a better visual of my ride.
Revisited this one due to wanting to get back to considering a psychological viewpoint/hypothesis.
Sun and moon in 12th/6th then ruler of ascendant is 12th. Equal, moon is 5th. Yet, I feel like in terms of “steering”, Mercury is obvious. Once shifting to whole signs, Saturn in virgo is more “identifying”. Then, I can’t help but say in terms of the concept of daimon the ruler of lot of spirit makes sense on a level of subconscious (conscious/subconscious/unconscious). Do I relate to Saturn in virgo because it rules moon? 🤔
It’s interesting, all I know is focusing on black moon lilith started putting me in a bad moon so I stopped, found it humorous the likely significations started coming up homing in on it. I’m just curious if the Kabbalah references to lilith and the dragon in relation to Saturn relates to Saturn and rahu/Ketu conjunctions in transits. I’m still considering if 1-4-7-10th are “conscious” houses and rest are more unconscious to where quadrant systems work because things mix psychologically, aspects to the ruler of spirit are the driving force. Then what’s discussed here relates to conscious drivers. As the week goes on I get more drowsy, so I’ll fall into a coma at the introspective rate I’m going. 😆
I’ve never related to sun sign astrology, tossing in Mercury as possible is sort of a lateral move. I can relate by description of a 12th sun/Mercury.. it’ll just go in circles. In other methods, Venus comes out on top. Yet, others will describe a libra (which Venus is in) but spirit ruler is conjunct. “Connecting to daimon”, I tend to find that most often by houses tied to the ruler, but Venus/mars in conjunction leaves 4 houses, they end up in the 2nd where I can just pay attention to what it’s accumulating. Then, couldn’t you say that about anyone? Maybe. If I keep going I’ll start dozing off.
What I do know is timing techniques work. The philosophy/idealism seems to relate to experience/learning through material existence along with reincarnation where, in very special cases, a person can recall an afterlife. Either near death experience or through said reincarnation process. Even not knowing astrology well, I knew (at some point) I’d reach this cancer ZR way before ever having an interest, I’d say it was “self fulfilling prophecy”. In my taurus release, I knew what was described in my gemini which was necessary for the cancer release, yet, was extremely frustrated by how long that period was taking. Being pulled into a deep dive pointed at how long periods were. I had two short periods, a long gemini, to a long cancer. How’d I know that? No clue. Looking at others charts, I feel pretty “privileged” to have two short ZR periods early on.
Wow, thanks for this. I nearly propitiated hades instead of mercury with this morning's fire. However, I managed to wait for the propitious time to sing a bit of sanskrit and the results appear far from trivial.
Predominator: night chart, moon is cadent and sun is suceedent, moon is "more eastern". Because the moon is cadent my sun is the predominator, yes?
I have the same and can't work out whether that makes sun the predominator or would this confusing position make the ascendant predominator 🤔