@@randomsanctum real talk, who is buying this product. $250 for a booster pack for a low percent chance at fake power? Yeah hard pass lol, I'd rather by proxies of the original's than pay an absurd amount for an "official" proxy.
If Wizard had reprinted reserved list they would have pissed off part (not even all) of the investor side of the community but at least players and newcomers would be happy. Instead, they managed to piss off everyone by reprinting reserved list cards as proxies. Investors/Collectors are angry because market is affected by those proxies and players/newcomers are mad since they are not able to purchase the product. This product is for no one.
They also chose the worst possible time to do this. Recession, inflation, global war or collapse fears, political unrest. To celebrate the 30th they should have just made some amazing masters type set, cool iconic cards (no RL to avoid issues), made the MSRP $30, sold boxes to stores for $25 a pop (LGS exclusive item), printed enough they could make money, stores could sell tons of boxes. Players on a tight budget could enjoy a good draft or box opening. And yes, if Hasbro did this, they'd only make pennies on the dollar per box, but in the long run it would have helped restore relations with players and LGS stores and over time it would have reaped rewards. But hasbro doesn't view anything "long term" it's all about wolf of wall street quick cash.
He'll be around for awhile, especially when FaB becomes king and wizards is some bankrupt company that gets bought out by Disney pumps out "Disney princess" universe beyond crossovers 🤣🤣🤣
I can believe that. I finally pulled the trigger on buyig $2 proxies of OG duals for my commander decks. I was planning to get the Revised versions, but seeing aswe’re all gonna be playing proxies after Magic 30 comes out, fuck that. Proxies it is.
absolutely! My playgroup was anti-proxy for years until a two years ago we were like, so what? are we hardcore collectors, competitors, or EDH players?
@@Cat-zc8nj I used a site called printing proxies. They have original fronts with changed backs, which is what I was looking for. That said, I started looking into proxies like 3 days ago, so I’m hardly an expert.
Bought a complete 4x set of Unlimited dual lands for $15-25 per card back in 2000. Glad to see them coming down on price. We should be able to buy them very cheaply for the few of us left who are interested in playing the older formats that even allow them. Commander is the only formats where they would actually be seeing much play these days.
Like Rudy said, the Hasbro executives don't care about the history of the company, care about it being around in a few years. It's all about quick profits, bonuses, dividends. Then these executives leave, head back to their beach house and find another company to leech dry.
No speculators and Rudy "destroyed" Magic. They turned it into NFT's and Hasbro catered to investors. The players will still play. The lower prices are good for players. No one HAD to buy the sparkly packs. The game will go on. But this moronic idea that the cards will be worth anything is finally dying like comics and sports cards in the 90's.
Let me tell you as someone who started pretty early: WotC made its lack of respect for veteran players clear when we didn’t make it two sets beyond 3rd/Revised, before they started pushing “Current Core + 2 most recently-released booster sets.” You can talk about all the Formats there are now, but there was a flat *decade* where you couldn’t find a Type I (Guess they call it Legacy now), without a private jet or equivalently deep pockets. All the way back then, Wizards sold the Prime TCG to the “You don’t *buy* cardboard to *play with* , you only *rent it* , and then it’s nothing but an “Investment.” Everyone who has ever complained about the evident avarice of a TCG/CCG-maker, can accurately point their finger at Garfield/WotC. All of this investment nonsense inevitably, *invariably* becomes a larger consideration than *The Game* That’s why this garbage doesn’t matter. It’s a contest of competing greeds, fought out by people/groups who objectively worsened Magic to keep the reverse-creep going for the longest time. Someone needs to have the courage to abandon the booster pack loot boxes. Once someone proves you can make a mint selling potential player what they want, rather than the hope of getting what they want, players will dump the Lootbox-CCGs the way PC gamers tend to avoid pay-to-win PC Games. Until that happens, enjoy subordinating pieces of peoples childhoods/Adolescences to the Quest For Cheddar, I guess.
I think that resumes well what impact MaRo has on MTG. I see a lot of people being mad at MaRo for what happens to the game... when in the end he is just a piece on the chest board.
@@TheTriptamineDream - I feel like they both did and didn't, tbh. The reserve list has never prevented them from printing non-tournament legal/gold border cards - they didn't break either the letter, nor spirit of the reserve list by making another collector's edition product - only the spirit of added assumptions of people who attribute very specific claims of their own imaginations to WotC despite the latter never making them. The underlying spirit that they _did_ violate though imo is the idea that they wouldn't reprint the old cards in a similar form, which is to say, with the same art and/or frames as the originals. They really should have used the MTGO art or commissioned new art for all the cards in the proxy set instead of just saying, "hey, you want the og art but in black border for your casual decks? Screw revised, get this instead". Reprint cards, keep the originals collectable, it shouldn't be so difficult, lol.
Everyone is freaking out and dumping vintage cards with low print runs (compared to today) and high attrition rates. People really should be dumping new cards that are "staples". Wizards is going to print them into the ground, as the game sheds more and more players, as more LGS stores shut down, newer cards with print runs in the tens of millions that only held value due to demand are going to tank the hardest.
100% THIS. I was laughing my ass off a few weeks ago when Bad Boy Gaming talked about buying up Mox Ambers, and other speculators said the same... I'm like "we're about to have an artifact-heavy set; you really don't think they'll reprint it?" Lo and behold, there are like 4 variations of Mox Amber in BRO. Look at Lili of the Veil. Guarantee next year we get a reprint of Ragavan.
@@randomsanctum Yup, if you're sitting on any new cards over $40, dump them and dump them fast. Hasbro is so cash hungry they probably have giant flat screens in the corporate office that have cards pop up anytime they get over $40-$50 on the secondary market. "Oh boys, let's throw this in a new set and then print 20 secret lair versions of it"
something i didn't think about until now is they 100% new they were making this product when they designed garth one eye and def could have made the black lotus token if they wanted
Is it a bargain? If the hodlers sell their positions the perceived opposition of fighting with that customer base might be minimized and reprints might start in earnest.
That has been my feeling as a casual player seeing all those videos about investors complaining and saying it is killing the game. I don't see how players having access to cards for cheaper and in more abundance would be killing the game... I do understand that it is killing the speculative market for the game as well as making it hard for LGS/investors to maximize profits, but as a player I'd be happier not spending hundreds for a piece of paper that compliments my deck better. That being said I understand Rudy's and others frustration as this is directly affecting their livelihood.
1) Shop buying 50% cheaper is not equal to a shop selling 50% cheaper, so the price did not drop 50%. 2) Recession does not affect those who can buy thousands of dollars of cardboard, in fact, the rich get richer during times of bad. 3) The rich will manipulate the price of card just like the share market, they inflate a card's price and the average joe collector will just have to pay the ridiculous price, and they can only sell to another average joe, as the rich already own multiple copies of the said card which they purchase with a fraction of the price. 4) WotC knew point 3, so they just come out with products for the rich to buy and sell to the average joe, this product is much needed for the rich, and sooner or later the "proxy cards" as the professor says, will increase their price in 10 folds and the average joe will just HAVE to pay for it as well. So nothing's wrong here.
Got all ten duals for a little less that what they are now (got them in 2018) and I'm hoping players can get their first dual or the whole set for the first time. As someone very much against the reserved list, what 30th shows to me is that even if wotc ripped off the bandaid and actually got rid of the list, it wouldn't matter. Wotc would print 1 pack a shop and sell it for 10,000 dollars or some other crazy bullshit so it can the p9 can stay as expensive as possible. It's very depressing how fast they are going from "This product is not for you" to "This game is not for you."
@Devin Jeran Just want to let you know that despite Rudy's clickbaity title and vague/misleading stats, that set of duals (assuming they're in at least decent condition, like not damaged) will still run you about 3k (based on eBay sales for MP-LP duals). Heck, the CardKingdom NM buylist totals $2750. These cards are NOT down 50%. This channel is entertaining, but in no way is it accurate.
i started playing in Fallen Empires and bought a lot of Revised back then, sadly I thought The Dark was cooler and probably bought more of that. Back in like 2008, 2009 I'd sell about one dual land per month to cover my utility payments while I tried to find fulltime work after the 2008 collapse. Ah, good times.
That's just it though, if people know they can print real foil lotuses, dual lands, and regular versions of the cards most of the price of the RL is tied up in the basic idea of "these won't be reprinted." Once people know they will be reprinting underground sea, it doesn't matter if it's super limited quantities because the value of dual lands isn't even in playability anymore because the legacy/vintage tournament scene IRL is either nonsanctioned or has very few sanctioned events per year. The prices would tank for revised duals in particular because they're ugly af.
European market (Card Market) looks like it's the same. Revised duals still going up. And if I could buy those cards at those prices, I would buy em all.
Market is the same here, just buylists going down. I ran to ebay hoping for some deals but there's nothing to be had, its the same its been the last year
@@poultrylord7300 Even the buylists aren't down all that much. Cardkingdom's NM buylist for a set of revised duals is ~3k. Idk what exactly it was a month ago (or even 6 months for that matter), but it's NOT down 50%.
Big brain WotC: "We can't break the reserve list, but we can charge you $1,000 dollars for cards that have the art and mechanics on them that you can't play with."
I've been out of Magic so long that I don't even care anymore. But there's just something cozy about wrapping myself in a comfy blanket, curling up in front of the warm dumpster fire, and listening to uncle Rudy's stories about who's getting hosed, who's going floppy, what his brothers been up to, and who his girlfriend is seeing.
The main problem with Magic investments for the future is that today’s market is based upon the nostalgia of people who got into the game 20 years ago, and we remember the thrill of opening a foil rare here and there, and we knew how valuable that was. What will young people today remember in 20 years time? Most can’t afford collectors boxes, and all the special cards are in there. In 20 years time, will anyone remember the buzz of today’s magic? Or will it have all blurred into one big mess? Nostalgia dictates what is collectible in the future. Will any of these new sets provide a ‘nostalgic’ buzz to the young magic players of today? That’s the question WotC should be asking.
The funniest thing to me is watching Wizards employees and spokespeople act like M30 is this great, exciting product. Meanwhile, dog meme in the house with the fire.
To them it is an exciting great product, they are gonna make a killing on it. But I get what you mean they don't seem to care about what short or long term damage it might do to the community.
I got some revised duals like 8 years ago to play with. If that time has taught me anything, it's that I'm unlikely to want to sell up in the next 8 years, so maybe I'll get more. That said I also bought 2 cycles of nice cheap proxies after they announced their overpriced proxies, so maybe not.
I love videos like this. Literally nothing has happened except a rumour by an undisclosed employee of one shop has lowered buy list price to reduce their exposure to people selling. If you try and buy a card prices have not changed. He even tells you in this video that other shops are still selling at that price. He also tells you he’s happy to buy your cards at the reduced value of one shop. Nothing has changed on MKM, or TCGPlayer etc.
@@ryankelly369 But that is a good thing though. It could mean that fewer people will buy reserved list cards as a investment, which means more supply for the Legacy and commander players. As a player, I just want prices to drop. If I want to invest, I’ll buy stocks or index funds, not pieces of cardboard.
@@TheMattmatic It could be good long-term. It's going to hurt more immediately, though. Only the realists are going to emerge with their skin intact, and MTG collecting isn't known for attracting realists.
It's times like these where I'm happy to be a full-time bootleg card patrician. I can enjoy the game and watch the MtG trashfire with zero regrets or worry
Those prices were inflated anyway due to market manipulation and not real supply and demand. Investors were selling to investors an item that was not as rare as they made them out to be.
Investors weren't doing that with dual lands at all. The game was growing and especially EDH getting more popular, so people were picking up duals and other reserved list cards for that reason (see timetwister, mishra's workshop, gaeas cradle). Most of the volume was through the big retailers who also upped their buylists along the way which indicates natural supply and demand. It was not a case of there only being 1 or 2 transactions a week on ebay that looked fishy.
you will be shocked to hear millions of something isn't actually that rare, even thousands isn't rare, now if you have one or even two of something, now that is what I like to call rare.
This...isn't true. I don't know why people think that just because Commander is the most popular format now that legacy doesn't affect prices at all, but it does. These are cards that are not in print anymore and have not been in print for over 20 years. They are increasingly more difficult to find due to less and less being available over the years from being lost destroyed damage etc etc, but also the fact that once most people get their hands on them they don't move them. I agree they're inflated but it's not like they were cheap before they shot up either. The only ones you could get for less than $150 for the ones that didn't see play in anything that put up results consistently in legacy. The revised ones are going down because there are more of those than the other printings, but also because of panic selling. Sure Commander players can use magic 30 fake duals, but legacy players still aren't allowed to, and it's not as if Commander players weren't just proxying before
I'm a firm believer in that if they just abolish the reserved list, the OG duals will rebound after a while. Even though I'm in the process of picking up a full set of duals, I still want them to reprint the cards, because having more people have reasonable access will bring more people in, meaning, the old duals will have demand.
Wow it’s almost as if we could have seen this coming a mile away when they doubled the dual lands on the print sheet and printed tens of thousands of boxes after telling us they would never reprint the reserved list.
Kingdom of cards (the west coast store) may be buying low, but they are still selling high. Very good condition Revised underground sea is still going for $600 on their website. That's not even NM or mint price. So yea, the prices really aren't coming down yet.
I gotta be honest, I’ve never been a fan of the reserved list, even as an investor myself. However I’ve always respected the reserve list for what it is, that being said, I never understood why some eternal staples where on there. Dual lands, lions eye diamond, mox diamond, and a few odds and ends here and there. I’m for the reserve list, I also hope they would expand it throughout the years, but yeah, some cards just don’t belong there IMHO.
Personally, the idea of the RL (as in, some way it could exist) I do respect - but not the implementation, or how they tightened their grip over it over the years. For example, the premium printing exception being closed up, and them being more reservced about becoming arbitrarily close - when they should have just ignored the people who complained, in ignorance to what the RL allows.
@@iNCoMpeTeNtplAyS I gotta ask, then what’s the point? The point to my knowledge was to protect the value collectibles, to protect from overprinting and market saturation. Nobody wanting to buy 550 of the 572 reserved list cards just goes to show the flaws.
Dual lands dedinitly belong in the reserve list, they have literally no downside and dont offer any room for gameplay variants. Having them reserved has helped created a LOT terrain variants, from tapland to shocklands.
I feel kinda bad for Rosewater. When he spoke about not "breaking the reserve list" he always seemed passionate and sincere, but Hasbro and new management made him into a liar and that just sucks. I can only imagine being put in that situation where you make a public promise and someone over your head and/or behind your back goes and does exactly what you said wouldn't happen. I'd have a hard time staying at the company.
I am sorry, but there is something called “own responsibility”. Wizards can’t make people liars, they can at best ask (or command) people to be liars. It is up to the people themselves (including Rosewater) to go along with it or choose personal integrity.
@@MagiusPaulus True. And we saw a lot of that around the world during Covid of people either getting the vaccine or losing their jobs. Whether it be something as big as a mandatory vaccine or as small as a broken promise, if you feel something or someone at your work is undermining your integrity, you have the option to leave. Stand for what you believe or fall for anything.
That's why he's such a PoS. O integrity. If he would have left it would prove it was a corporate decision he had nothing to do with. He's still there so he's been lying for sales the whole time.
I don't think you really know what comes with that. I know on the face its cool to get cheap old cards but the collapse that comes with that means you don't have a game to play anymore.
@@SHADOWCLOUDGAMING I dunno, given a fan project has brought Netrunner back from the dead....a community run game that's compatible would probably be an improvement ...
how is the dual land market crashing a bad thing .... I can finally afford a fucking bayou ... maybe.. this is the best news I've heard from your channel in like a year
I hate to give Wizards any more ideas, but I could see them making a premium version of Time Spiral Remastered, but make it Chronicles Remastered. Wizards can’t reprint a lot of old offensive cards, but they could easily lump all the remaining Arabian, Antiquities, Legends, The Dark into one big proxy celebratory product. And again, sorry ahead of time if this comes to pass 😂
I'm surprised they didnt go all in on foil reprints for those sets. No non foils just reprints of the cards in foil only. Ice age or Mirage and just foil out every card stick it in a 15 card pack and call it the remasterd run or something equally dumb. Charge 50 a pack. Hasbro is scummy, eventually they will probably pull something like that. "These old sets don't have foils so we decided to celebrate these with foil versions. Come celebrate 30 years of magic."
I can’t even really be happy that if duels are cheaper now, cause yeah $270 is a lot less that $540, but it’s still so expensive as to be very unobtainable.
It is pretty simple. The Reserved List isn't sustainable. It puts a massive constrain on the growth of MTG (Commander and casual). There is a physical threshold. MTG's future is at stake. People have been pissed off for years due to the RL. People have either not entered the game, people have sold out because they can't afford the cards they need to complete their Commander deck etc, people have used their own proxies for years etc. Either they need to ban all RL cards or get rid of the RL to create an equal level playing field so people can actually play the game instead of playing a stock market.
It's truly delicious that you and so many others relied on non-binding statements external to the actual reserved list policy. The actual policy explicitly states tournament legal versions. I couldn't be happier they've gone down this road, and will continue to do so. It's the best of all worlds really: Speculators who reduce card availability get crushed, players get more cards for commander, and Wizards finally capitalizes on IP that's been locked away by idiot lawyers for 25 years.
Rudy seems unhappy, which is strange because his position has been who would want these cards that are only proxies and people would be laughed at for buying these.
If wizards kills the collectibility of the cards by being too greedy and people don't like the company and there is a mass dump he is stuck with the most expensive cardboard you can ever imagine.
The only way I can cope with the garbage fire crazy that has gone on with magic is to create a story line to explain it. Mark calls a meeting at WOTC and gets the people together. He says "look guys Hasbro has bought us so there will have to be changes." Room goes into a roar of "they can't do this" and "sobs in the corner". Mark speaks up "But I have a plan we are going to make poor design choices on mechanics cards excetera. And cost Hasbro to lose so much money they will have to sell us". Some intern guy "But won't that make alot of players mad". Mark "I'll have to bear the weight of it like my father Optimus Prime once said " " Hero's are rarely called upon at a time of their choosing" ".
Rosewater has 0 credibility. This is the same man who went on the record on his Twitter/blog saying there would never be any outside IP introduced into MTG. And look at where we are now
@@slaytronic nah just like in 2011/2012 they De-list them and sit on many waiting for it to drive prices back up as it goes. People seeing 9 of each in stock makes people not feel like they're so special or rare and/or hard to come by. Making them seem more rare helps shift prices. I talked with one of the SCG higher ups as well as Sasso from CFB when all this went on before and they help coordinate things like this to weather the market.
They should just reprint the reserve list. It would be nice to get some game pieces for a game I enjoy playing. Collectors will still collect all the original reserve cards.
what? if he has no say in these decisions then why is he making definitive statements he has no control over? makes no sense. the criticism is well deserved.
People have forgotten about the word called integrity and it's sad. If MaRo was really against this he could and should have quit WOTC. He has made a lot of money anyway and could have made more money if he brought his "talents" to another TCG. Instead, he chose to be part of this. 2 black lotuses in 1 pack, my @ass.
@@alister214 i dont think he deserves hate. I do think he has no credibility anymore though. We nos know he doesnt havs the authority to keep his promises so we cant trust them.
This is why I've only bought reserved list cards that I actually intend on playing for the cheapest I could find it. Hoarding reserved list cards if they're not reprinted is only killing the game. Outside of MTGO, Legacy isn't gaining any new players, to keep these formats from dying off, the prices need to be kept in check.
Yup, the 30th will make them a small fortune and cost them a large fortune in lost revenue on the rest of the game -- all at the same time! It's called "business acumen."
It is what I hope. They can make 40 millions out of 30th Edition and lose 40 millions out of upset customers not buying into their other products and it would make me happy.
I dumped all my revised dual lands in the last 12 months. Back in June I sold of an additional small group, Plateau being in there, which got me a brand new Beretta 92x. Score!
I m a french timmy who lives in Paris and I barely speak english. I don t know what a patron is. I don t own much magic stuff. I don t eat tacos.... But Rudy , I think I might have a addiction issue with your videos. I just can t help watching those talks. I want you to know that if it s a privilege for you to entertain us , it s a privilege for me to be entertained by you.
Don't care about Revised Duals, but I would like more Unlimited Duals if I can get them for a great price. Here's hoping 30th will cause them to retrace hard too.
The thing is that the supplies of Unlimited was considerabily lower of Revised. But honestly if we compare the previous prices of U vs R duals, the latter seemed to be overinflated, especially given how worse they look in terms of colour and text.
My view: Mark Rosewater never wanted to reprint the cards and wanted to maintain the integrity of the reserve list, Corporate said "me likey muny" and did it anyways. It hurts MaRo's image and they don't care about theirs
The way that modern players interact with the game is different though. I feel like a lot of people have this weird point of view where they want to open valuable Chase cards. But they also want a proxy and like want the cards to cost nothing. It's a weird mentality. I would say that at least half of it is that they are jealous of people with old reserved list cards
> *Hasbro is about to learn the lesson WotC had to learn during Chronicles.* I hope they have more backbone this time - instead of grossly overreacting like WotC did (continued to do) with how the RL was structured (as opposed to how it could have been handled) - not to mention that there is something to be said about how organic, or inorganic, the value lost is.
@@Monechetti Its not one player who wants it both ways.. but a shift from the old to the new. Its currently two different main subsets of players (and probably many smaller ones.) One is the pack opening excitement player. He wants to open cool powerful cards out of packs and see what they can do. Make decks and play with others. Show off his cool pulls and special cards. Possibly drafts and goes to FNM. Plays 60 card formats. The Other is the casual player. Doesn't get sucked into the FNM culture. Doesn't crack packs or draft. Buys singles and plays a lot of commander and cube style games. This player loves anthology collections and wants all cards to be affordable as he actively maintains a lot of decks. WOTC has bred this second style of player with their active contempt towards the playerbase via the lies, power creep, bad card/foil quality, and price gouging. 30th anniversary has further shifted the thought process of a lot of these players . The sentiment online is" If I sell my duals I can just use the money to buy a proxy of everything I want now, since Wizards is willing to print "proxy" cards at the absurd 4 packs for $1k price point."
This is no where near Chronicles. 1) Hasbro CAN'T be sued over this, 2) This is a limited product sold at $333 a pack not $2.95, 3) These aren't actual cards, they hold the same value as a Swamp with "Black Lowtiz, tap to ad 3 of any coler" written by a 2021 college grad with a $300k education (and they thought they spelled that all right)....this is a blip....
Because some people have thousands of dollars worth of more seemingly scarce items, that perceived scarcity is what makes even MP Alpha Commons sell with palpable demand. I had transitioned from modern to legacy to have a more stable price point if i decided (which I did) to stop building decks halfway through. So now I am soaking up some more affordable alphas
As a player that sold my collection years ago and is getting back into the game this year, these price drops are great. There was no way I could justify a purchase of a revised dual even 2 or 3 months ago. At this price though, I can maybe snag one a month and not feel too terrible about the price and boost my mana bases.
Exactly, thank you for right off the bat stating that they promised separately and apart not only not to reprint the reserved list but not to reprint it in any form as well, making a promise not to reprint CE and sets of the like. Watch them “find” more stuff just like legends… they”ll thread the needle somehow. They fully intend to release more reserved stuff in the future
Probably lots of more idiots in USA than Europe to buy the 30th product. Remember, they elected Trump... So obviously European prices will be more stable.
@@AZNCIess Then there is a rush on those things and prices will go up again. I think. Those things will always stay expensive untill they reprint the hell out of them.
Hey Timmy go watch for first video about this, you literally said it was great cool and didn’t affect the reserve list because the fonts were different!! Timmy jack
Wow I am lucky to sell my land before this happened, holy sh*t. Edit: Do to them making cards from the list maybe we can have a xenomorph secret lair with the Slivers being xenos and the sliver queen being the xenomorph queen, now that would be a dream come true. I am saying this while also owning a Sliver Queen.
@@alfascorpi Cards becoming affordable hardly hurts the game. Investors and collectors don't play the game, they literally just buy stocks in the form of playing cards.
@@alfascorpi Oh if that's what is required to me affordably acquire dual lands, yeah. Absolutely. I'm not going to stop playing the game. Let's not kid ourselves. The vast majority of people selling these cards right now aren't folk who play the game with their cards. They're holding the cards as an investment.
they are going to find pallets of these 30th anniversary boxes in a warehouse 20 years from now and put them randomly in packs as chase cards for 50th anniversary
The thing is: Since Wizards accepted that we can play with proxies, who's gonna buy the tournament legal ones anyways? I personally stopped buying sealed product, singles over 5 dolars and I'm all into proxies... This price behavior is following this same logic, the demand for original cards will drop considerably.
@@enleteli you cant play with proxies in a tournament, but you do you, by all means print proxies. That has nothing to do with the specialness of vintage cards. When did you ever need Wotc permission to play with proxies at home or with friends?
@@TheSenselessName Woo, you like playing with cards that cost thousands of dollars with the same functionality as a $1 proxy? Only difference is you can use them in tournaments that over 90% of the playerbase does not participate in. The best part is that there are proxies that look so authentic at a glance that it's like playing with beta power 9 and dual lands.
Thanks much for this video. I appreciate you breaking stuff down. I am not a collector, but a player. However the nuts and bolts on how these things work are worth knowing. I am pretty cheesed off wth MtG 30th. I have been playing since 1995 and feel really cheated with all of this.
Just an idea for a game in the future... I would make a reserved list for art. I would retain the ability to reprint cards, but I would limit all art to the period until a set goes out of print. Then, for all new reprints, they would have to use different art. That method retains the collectability of the originals, but allows for game control for the designer. It also keeps new printings as collectables, because they will also be limited.
Can confirm, very bloated on Revised Duals from folks panic selling. My recommendation: BUY THE DIP. Selling right now is quite possibly the worst move you can make.
Think the thought process is, the promise has been broken, the belief is more reprints will happen now. Especially if pappa Hasbro makes a ton of cash off the 30th anniversary packs. Good for players, especially if they become cheap, bad for collectors/investors in cardboard stocks.
i'm a RL absolutist and expansionist, but i'm pretty happy with a temporary dip in revised duals based on my weak position. my LGS quoted me $350 for a played scrubland a month ago. i had to contain my laughter. i'll make sure to go back and ask again, as it's surely still in the cabinet. they hardly consider condition and always quote top price afraid to leave money on the table. instead, they leave the cards there. i paid about that much for a M+ collectors edition one there a year ago. when i heard the announcement of 30, i knew i'd be back on mission collecting duals under $200 for a bit.
Not a fan of this TCG, but your video are so funny man I watch them all and pretend I care about revised cards and reprints etc. Never stop the "FOOOLK!!" intro's, I literally laugh at them every single time.
20-25 years ago, my friend and I that played a lot of Magic and bought a ton of cards used to speculate that they would reprint the restricted list cards. No doubt that when a company matures and their cashflow drops for whatever reason, they will start doing things to get their bottom line back to where it was. Otherwise people get fired. There is no real barrier to reprints other than what prior company officials have said so you can see it will eventually happen. They will probably figure out how to create other types of rarity for the aftermarket... look at sports cards for the model.
Sorry not sorry that old lands are now affordable. the speculators in the MTG market are getting what they get for literally gatekeeping the game in terms of price. The reserved list was a mistake to begin with and now the 'investors' have only themselves to blame for the issues we face today. again, sorry not sorry.
Mark Rosewater's Dad here. I just wanted to apologize. Mark is the way he is because I was very hard on him when he was growing up. I told his Mom when he first started working at WOTC, that he had joined a cult that practices magic. She cries about it to this day.
The Duals were inflated from the pandemic spending spree. People that never gave a shit about the game or collecting the cards bought them because of hype and nothing else to do. The prices were so overinflated, and people who never intended to get the cards are now selling them because they need cash, that this was bound to happen.
Also likely some portion of the sales are people realizing they don't need duals to play commander anymore, since WOTC is pushing their own proxies now.
Welcome to MTG Do you want fries with that? Also.... let it drop. If it all collapses, at least will have.... a legend of a Card Game to talk about.... Let the rumors begin!
It's not about being happy over other people's misery, but rather being happy that these game pieces might actually become affordable for actual players instead of just speculators.
I haven’t seen any big jumps on eBay. I can see a store stop buying or reduce price if that story personally has bought too many. People selling their investments seems more indicative of the overall economy as a whole.
On a positive note it does mean that people who didn’t have the option to buy them back then can now get them a little more affordably (which isn't saying much since they're still extremely expensive for a piece of cardboard).
collecting is the first part of playing. not having a safe and stable store of value makes the game less playable for the players with actual wallets and enough cognitive function to think more than five minutes ahead. if players want the game to continue to grow and expand in a positive way, they'd hopefully see the larger long term potential downside of the damage done to the company. that said, i'm personally thrilled revised duals are expectedly dipping. but if you don't think it's temporary, there's still no good reason to buy them. 99.9% of the player base is kitchen table or rule zero, so it's just a waste of slightly less money if they were without the potential resale upside.
Remember how they wouldn't even print a Black Lotus token for Garth in MH2 because of the "spirit of the reserved list"?
Well yeah, because they knew this would be coming out a year later. Why give away what they can charge an absurd amount of money for?
@@randomsanctum real talk, who is buying this product. $250 for a booster pack for a low percent chance at fake power? Yeah hard pass lol, I'd rather by proxies of the original's than pay an absurd amount for an "official" proxy.
I'd rather buy a black lotus drawn in crayon on a taco bell wrapper by Rudy then pay Wotc money for fake power.
If Wizard had reprinted reserved list they would have pissed off part (not even all) of the investor side of the community but at least players and newcomers would be happy. Instead, they managed to piss off everyone by reprinting reserved list cards as proxies. Investors/Collectors are angry because market is affected by those proxies and players/newcomers are mad since they are not able to purchase the product. This product is for no one.
*everyone disliked that*
Well said!
Exactly. A product for no one
If they did tho whole magic World would come together an “suuueee” there ass . They wouldent dare. Or would they ruby 😅
They also chose the worst possible time to do this. Recession, inflation, global war or collapse fears, political unrest. To celebrate the 30th they should have just made some amazing masters type set, cool iconic cards (no RL to avoid issues), made the MSRP $30, sold boxes to stores for $25 a pop (LGS exclusive item), printed enough they could make money, stores could sell tons of boxes. Players on a tight budget could enjoy a good draft or box opening. And yes, if Hasbro did this, they'd only make pennies on the dollar per box, but in the long run it would have helped restore relations with players and LGS stores and over time it would have reaped rewards. But hasbro doesn't view anything "long term" it's all about wolf of wall street quick cash.
Please never leave TH-cam Rudy. The world needs you. Too much entertainment.
For sure Rudy will not leave YT. These 10 min daily in front camera videos earns him thousands of $ per months.
Lol.
He'll be around for awhile, especially when FaB becomes king and wizards is some bankrupt company that gets bought out by Disney pumps out "Disney princess" universe beyond crossovers 🤣🤣🤣
I can believe that. I finally pulled the trigger on buyig $2 proxies of OG duals for my commander decks. I was planning to get the Revised versions, but seeing aswe’re all gonna be playing proxies after Magic 30 comes out, fuck that. Proxies it is.
absolutely! My playgroup was anti-proxy for years until a two years ago we were like, so what? are we hardcore collectors, competitors, or EDH players?
Which site do you recommend to get proxies?
@@Cat-zc8nj proxy ninja
@@Zauzzie thanks!
@@Cat-zc8nj I used a site called printing proxies. They have original fronts with changed backs, which is what I was looking for. That said, I started looking into proxies like 3 days ago, so I’m hardly an expert.
Bought a complete 4x set of Unlimited dual lands for $15-25 per card back in 2000. Glad to see them coming down on price. We should be able to buy them very cheaply for the few of us left who are interested in playing the older formats that even allow them. Commander is the only formats where they would actually be seeing much play these days.
Hasbro is destroying a 30 year old institution and they still can’t save their stock price, what a shame
Like Rudy said, the Hasbro executives don't care about the history of the company, care about it being around in a few years. It's all about quick profits, bonuses, dividends. Then these executives leave, head back to their beach house and find another company to leech dry.
No speculators and Rudy "destroyed" Magic. They turned it into NFT's and Hasbro catered to investors. The players will still play. The lower prices are good for players. No one HAD to buy the sparkly packs. The game will go on. But this moronic idea that the cards will be worth anything is finally dying like comics and sports cards in the 90's.
Let me tell you as someone who started pretty early: WotC made its lack of respect for veteran players clear when we didn’t make it two sets beyond 3rd/Revised, before they started pushing “Current Core + 2 most recently-released booster sets.”
You can talk about all the Formats there are now, but there was a flat *decade* where you couldn’t find a Type I (Guess they call it Legacy now), without a private jet or equivalently deep pockets.
All the way back then, Wizards sold the Prime TCG to the “You don’t *buy* cardboard to *play with* , you only *rent it* , and then it’s nothing but an “Investment.”
Everyone who has ever complained about the evident avarice of a TCG/CCG-maker, can accurately point their finger at Garfield/WotC.
All of this investment nonsense inevitably, *invariably* becomes a larger consideration than *The Game*
That’s why this garbage doesn’t matter. It’s a contest of competing greeds, fought out by people/groups who objectively worsened Magic to keep the reverse-creep going for the longest time.
Someone needs to have the courage to abandon the booster pack loot boxes. Once someone proves you can make a mint selling potential player what they want, rather than the hope of getting what they want, players will dump the Lootbox-CCGs the way PC gamers tend to avoid pay-to-win PC Games.
Until that happens, enjoy subordinating pieces of peoples childhoods/Adolescences to the Quest For Cheddar, I guess.
@ Whisker biscuit, your the price sensitive customer WOTC complain about.
@@christianmathew398 I'm the one actually buying the product giblet head. Because I don't care what the "value" of the cards are.
Mark Rosewater: We will never break the spirit of the reserve list.
Hasbro: That's cute!
Wizards: "We're going to do it anyway."
Mark: "Well fu-"
I really wish they would. At least a little.
I think that resumes well what impact MaRo has on MTG. I see a lot of people being mad at MaRo for what happens to the game... when in the end he is just a piece on the chest board.
@@TheTriptamineDream - I feel like they both did and didn't, tbh. The reserve list has never prevented them from printing non-tournament legal/gold border cards - they didn't break either the letter, nor spirit of the reserve list by making another collector's edition product - only the spirit of added assumptions of people who attribute very specific claims of their own imaginations to WotC despite the latter never making them.
The underlying spirit that they _did_ violate though imo is the idea that they wouldn't reprint the old cards in a similar form, which is to say, with the same art and/or frames as the originals. They really should have used the MTGO art or commissioned new art for all the cards in the proxy set instead of just saying, "hey, you want the og art but in black border for your casual decks? Screw revised, get this instead". Reprint cards, keep the originals collectable, it shouldn't be so difficult, lol.
The reserve list was a mistake
Everyone is freaking out and dumping vintage cards with low print runs (compared to today) and high attrition rates. People really should be dumping new cards that are "staples". Wizards is going to print them into the ground, as the game sheds more and more players, as more LGS stores shut down, newer cards with print runs in the tens of millions that only held value due to demand are going to tank the hardest.
100% THIS.
I was laughing my ass off a few weeks ago when Bad Boy Gaming talked about buying up Mox Ambers, and other speculators said the same... I'm like "we're about to have an artifact-heavy set; you really don't think they'll reprint it?"
Lo and behold, there are like 4 variations of Mox Amber in BRO.
Look at Lili of the Veil.
Guarantee next year we get a reprint of Ragavan.
@@randomsanctum Yup, if you're sitting on any new cards over $40, dump them and dump them fast. Hasbro is so cash hungry they probably have giant flat screens in the corporate office that have cards pop up anytime they get over $40-$50 on the secondary market. "Oh boys, let's throw this in a new set and then print 20 secret lair versions of it"
something i didn't think about until now is they 100% new they were making this product when they designed garth one eye and def could have made the black lotus token if they wanted
but they can't do that before charging whales hundreds for crappy proxies. that would have been an economic failing.
They said explicitly iirc that they wouldn't make that token, what I'm less sure about is if they used the reserve list as justification
I don't like to see people fail, but getting access to powerful cards will always make me happy, especially at a bargain.
Is it a bargain? If the hodlers sell their positions the perceived opposition of fighting with that customer base might be minimized and reprints might start in earnest.
@@refroggy if the hoarders sell their positions, the market will have more and the prices will drop even more, meaning there are greater bargains.
Eh? if they want to bet on cardboard, that's their fault.
The prices haven’t fallen. Card kingdom will just pay you less for your cards. This video is a bit disingenuous.
That has been my feeling as a casual player seeing all those videos about investors complaining and saying it is killing the game. I don't see how players having access to cards for cheaper and in more abundance would be killing the game... I do understand that it is killing the speculative market for the game as well as making it hard for LGS/investors to maximize profits, but as a player I'd be happier not spending hundreds for a piece of paper that compliments my deck better.
That being said I understand Rudy's and others frustration as this is directly affecting their livelihood.
1) Shop buying 50% cheaper is not equal to a shop selling 50% cheaper, so the price did not drop 50%.
2) Recession does not affect those who can buy thousands of dollars of cardboard, in fact, the rich get richer during times of bad.
3) The rich will manipulate the price of card just like the share market, they inflate a card's price and the average joe collector will just have to pay the ridiculous price, and they can only sell to another average joe, as the rich already own multiple copies of the said card which they purchase with a fraction of the price.
4) WotC knew point 3, so they just come out with products for the rich to buy and sell to the average joe, this product is much needed for the rich, and sooner or later the "proxy cards" as the professor says, will increase their price in 10 folds and the average joe will just HAVE to pay for it as well.
So nothing's wrong here.
Got all ten duals for a little less that what they are now (got them in 2018) and I'm hoping players can get their first dual or the whole set for the first time.
As someone very much against the reserved list, what 30th shows to me is that even if wotc ripped off the bandaid and actually got rid of the list, it wouldn't matter. Wotc would print 1 pack a shop and sell it for 10,000 dollars or some other crazy bullshit so it can the p9 can stay as expensive as possible. It's very depressing how fast they are going from "This product is not for you" to "This game is not for you."
I just got my first dual a few weeks ago and I’ll probably go for a play set of that one for a legacy/vintage deck
@Devin Jeran Just want to let you know that despite Rudy's clickbaity title and vague/misleading stats, that set of duals (assuming they're in at least decent condition, like not damaged) will still run you about 3k (based on eBay sales for MP-LP duals). Heck, the CardKingdom NM buylist totals $2750. These cards are NOT down 50%. This channel is entertaining, but in no way is it accurate.
i started playing in Fallen Empires and bought a lot of Revised back then, sadly I thought The Dark was cooler and probably bought more of that. Back in like 2008, 2009 I'd sell about one dual land per month to cover my utility payments while I tried to find fulltime work after the 2008 collapse. Ah, good times.
That's just it though, if people know they can print real foil lotuses, dual lands, and regular versions of the cards most of the price of the RL is tied up in the basic idea of "these won't be reprinted." Once people know they will be reprinting underground sea, it doesn't matter if it's super limited quantities because the value of dual lands isn't even in playability anymore because the legacy/vintage tournament scene IRL is either nonsanctioned or has very few sanctioned events per year. The prices would tank for revised duals in particular because they're ugly af.
@@dark_rit I think they're lovely :D
Ive been wanting to build up my legacy collection and I am glad I waited till now. Everything reserved list is frothing. Great deals to be had!
European market (Card Market) looks like it's the same. Revised duals still going up. And if I could buy those cards at those prices, I would buy em all.
Market is the same here, just buylists going down. I ran to ebay hoping for some deals but there's nothing to be had, its the same its been the last year
@@poultrylord7300 exactly. Not really sure where his 50% down is coming from. I guess just stores don't want to stock it?
@@poultrylord7300 Even the buylists aren't down all that much. Cardkingdom's NM buylist for a set of revised duals is ~3k. Idk what exactly it was a month ago (or even 6 months for that matter), but it's NOT down 50%.
Big brain WotC: "We can't break the reserve list, but we can charge you $1,000 dollars for cards that have the art and mechanics on them that you can't play with."
Yeah who the eff is going to buy these things?!
@@aeb814 We're going to find out. Because they will sell.
Only fools, morons and idiots will buy this terrible money grab product!! Don't be a Timmy!!!
*_*scours ebay for deals*_* (" o.o)
@@ryankelly369 I’ll stick to my own proxies
I've been out of Magic so long that I don't even care anymore. But there's just something cozy about wrapping myself in a comfy blanket, curling up in front of the warm dumpster fire, and listening to uncle Rudy's stories about who's getting hosed, who's going floppy, what his brothers been up to, and who his girlfriend is seeing.
The main problem with Magic investments for the future is that today’s market is based upon the nostalgia of people who got into the game 20 years ago, and we remember the thrill of opening a foil rare here and there, and we knew how valuable that was.
What will young people today remember in 20 years time?
Most can’t afford collectors boxes, and all the special cards are in there.
In 20 years time, will anyone remember the buzz of today’s magic?
Or will it have all blurred into one big mess?
Nostalgia dictates what is collectible in the future.
Will any of these new sets provide a ‘nostalgic’ buzz to the young magic players of today?
That’s the question WotC should be asking.
The funniest thing to me is watching Wizards employees and spokespeople act like M30 is this great, exciting product. Meanwhile, dog meme in the house with the fire.
That's their job. If they were selling manure, they'd be hyping it up as well.
@@iNCoMpeTeNtplAyS Yeah, obviously. It’s just extremely funny watching the pain in their eyes as they try to sell a shit sandwich.
You think they won’t sell out lol?
To them it is an exciting great product, they are gonna make a killing on it. But I get what you mean they don't seem to care about what short or long term damage it might do to the community.
@@iNCoMpeTeNtplAyS at least manure has valid uses
I got some revised duals like 8 years ago to play with. If that time has taught me anything, it's that I'm unlikely to want to sell up in the next 8 years, so maybe I'll get more. That said I also bought 2 cycles of nice cheap proxies after they announced their overpriced proxies, so maybe not.
Hopefully, this can help bring back paper legacy and vintage a bit more.
as somebody who loves legacy but cant afford 1000 dollar lands I am overjoyed
I love videos like this. Literally nothing has happened except a rumour by an undisclosed employee of one shop has lowered buy list price to reduce their exposure to people selling. If you try and buy a card prices have not changed. He even tells you in this video that other shops are still selling at that price. He also tells you he’s happy to buy your cards at the reduced value of one shop. Nothing has changed on MKM, or TCGPlayer etc.
...yet. The one thing we know for sure is that a WoTC spokesmouth's promise of "we will never reprint these cards" is worth precisely dick.
@@ryankelly369 But that is a good thing though. It could mean that fewer people will buy reserved list cards as a investment, which means more supply for the Legacy and commander players. As a player, I just want prices to drop. If I want to invest, I’ll buy stocks or index funds, not pieces of cardboard.
@@TheMattmatic It could be good long-term. It's going to hurt more immediately, though. Only the realists are going to emerge with their skin intact, and MTG collecting isn't known for attracting realists.
lol yeah, I saw this video title and immediately looked at MTGStocks, nothing has changed. ebay results, nothing has changed. pure clickbait.
It's times like these where I'm happy to be a full-time bootleg card patrician.
I can enjoy the game and watch the MtG trashfire with zero regrets or worry
What’s a good place to buy fake cards with good quality? I just want to play a game, idgaf about the value of some glorified paper
@@kuroshm r/bootlegmtg
@@kuroshm makeplayingcards has player created 3rd party tools just for configuring cards on their site. And the are very high quality.
*LUXURY glorified paper
@@kuroshm aliexpress
Those prices were inflated anyway due to market manipulation and not real supply and demand. Investors were selling to investors an item that was not as rare as they made them out to be.
It's the "echo chamber" effect of a bunch of people who are an "exclusive club" have - they think what they have is worth more than it actually is.
LOL
Investors weren't doing that with dual lands at all. The game was growing and especially EDH getting more popular, so people were picking up duals and other reserved list cards for that reason (see timetwister, mishra's workshop, gaeas cradle). Most of the volume was through the big retailers who also upped their buylists along the way which indicates natural supply and demand. It was not a case of there only being 1 or 2 transactions a week on ebay that looked fishy.
you will be shocked to hear millions of something isn't actually that rare, even thousands isn't rare, now if you have one or even two of something, now that is what I like to call rare.
This...isn't true. I don't know why people think that just because Commander is the most popular format now that legacy doesn't affect prices at all, but it does. These are cards that are not in print anymore and have not been in print for over 20 years. They are increasingly more difficult to find due to less and less being available over the years from being lost destroyed damage etc etc, but also the fact that once most people get their hands on them they don't move them. I agree they're inflated but it's not like they were cheap before they shot up either. The only ones you could get for less than $150 for the ones that didn't see play in anything that put up results consistently in legacy. The revised ones are going down because there are more of those than the other printings, but also because of panic selling. Sure Commander players can use magic 30 fake duals, but legacy players still aren't allowed to, and it's not as if Commander players weren't just proxying before
I'm a firm believer in that if they just abolish the reserved list, the OG duals will rebound after a while. Even though I'm in the process of picking up a full set of duals, I still want them to reprint the cards, because having more people have reasonable access will bring more people in, meaning, the old duals will have demand.
Wow it’s almost as if we could have seen this coming a mile away when they doubled the dual lands on the print sheet and printed tens of thousands of boxes after telling us they would never reprint the reserved list.
Kingdom of cards (the west coast store) may be buying low, but they are still selling high. Very good condition Revised underground sea is still going for $600 on their website. That's not even NM or mint price. So yea, the prices really aren't coming down yet.
I gotta be honest, I’ve never been a fan of the reserved list, even as an investor myself. However I’ve always respected the reserve list for what it is, that being said, I never understood why some eternal staples where on there. Dual lands, lions eye diamond, mox diamond, and a few odds and ends here and there. I’m for the reserve list, I also hope they would expand it throughout the years, but yeah, some cards just don’t belong there IMHO.
Lol of course staples would be on the list. No one is gonna hoard a bunch of giant growths.
@@iNCoMpeTeNtplAyS it's not fun to have an investment market suck up game pieces for resale.
Personally, the idea of the RL (as in, some way it could exist) I do respect - but not the implementation, or how they tightened their grip over it over the years. For example, the premium printing exception being closed up, and them being more reservced about becoming arbitrarily close - when they should have just ignored the people who complained, in ignorance to what the RL allows.
@@iNCoMpeTeNtplAyS I gotta ask, then what’s the point? The point to my knowledge was to protect the value collectibles, to protect from overprinting and market saturation. Nobody wanting to buy 550 of the 572 reserved list cards just goes to show the flaws.
Dual lands dedinitly belong in the reserve list, they have literally no downside and dont offer any room for gameplay variants. Having them reserved has helped created a LOT terrain variants, from tapland to shocklands.
I feel kinda bad for Rosewater. When he spoke about not "breaking the reserve list" he always seemed passionate and sincere, but Hasbro and new management made him into a liar and that just sucks. I can only imagine being put in that situation where you make a public promise and someone over your head and/or behind your back goes and does exactly what you said wouldn't happen. I'd have a hard time staying at the company.
I am sorry, but there is something called “own responsibility”. Wizards can’t make people liars, they can at best ask (or command) people to be liars. It is up to the people themselves (including Rosewater) to go along with it or choose personal integrity.
Money… it’s a gas.
Watch the announcement of Magic 30 and look at Rosewater’s gleaming face… you don’t need to feel sorry for this guy
@@MagiusPaulus True. And we saw a lot of that around the world during Covid of people either getting the vaccine or losing their jobs. Whether it be something as big as a mandatory vaccine or as small as a broken promise, if you feel something or someone at your work is undermining your integrity, you have the option to leave. Stand for what you believe or fall for anything.
That's why he's such a PoS. O integrity. If he would have left it would prove it was a corporate decision he had nothing to do with. He's still there so he's been lying for sales the whole time.
So excited! I hope it stays low as long as possible. Go ahead WotC, print more proxies. I want more cheap OG stuff :)
I don't think you really know what comes with that. I know on the face its cool to get cheap old cards but the collapse that comes with that means you don't have a game to play anymore.
@@SHADOWCLOUDGAMING Soooooooo I will just play with the cheap old cards then? :)
@@SHADOWCLOUDGAMING I dunno, given a fan project has brought Netrunner back from the dead....a community run game that's compatible would probably be an improvement ...
how is the dual land market crashing a bad thing .... I can finally afford a fucking bayou ... maybe.. this is the best news I've heard from your channel in like a year
I hate to give Wizards any more ideas, but I could see them making a premium version of Time Spiral Remastered, but make it Chronicles Remastered. Wizards can’t reprint a lot of old offensive cards, but they could easily lump all the remaining Arabian, Antiquities, Legends, The Dark into one big proxy celebratory product.
And again, sorry ahead of time if this comes to pass 😂
I'm surprised they didnt go all in on foil reprints for those sets. No non foils just reprints of the cards in foil only. Ice age or Mirage and just foil out every card stick it in a 15 card pack and call it the remasterd run or something equally dumb. Charge 50 a pack. Hasbro is scummy, eventually they will probably pull something like that. "These old sets don't have foils so we decided to celebrate these with foil versions. Come celebrate 30 years of magic."
I can’t even really be happy that if duels are cheaper now, cause yeah $270 is a lot less that $540, but it’s still so expensive as to be very unobtainable.
It is pretty simple. The Reserved List isn't sustainable. It puts a massive constrain on the growth of MTG (Commander and casual). There is a physical threshold. MTG's future is at stake. People have been pissed off for years due to the RL. People have either not entered the game, people have sold out because they can't afford the cards they need to complete their Commander deck etc, people have used their own proxies for years etc. Either they need to ban all RL cards or get rid of the RL to create an equal level playing field so people can actually play the game instead of playing a stock market.
Won’t happen though. A lot of players want to act as gatekeepers
It's truly delicious that you and so many others relied on non-binding statements external to the actual reserved list policy. The actual policy explicitly states tournament legal versions. I couldn't be happier they've gone down this road, and will continue to do so. It's the best of all worlds really: Speculators who reduce card availability get crushed, players get more cards for commander, and Wizards finally capitalizes on IP that's been locked away by idiot lawyers for 25 years.
Rudy seems unhappy, which is strange because his position has been who would want these cards that are only proxies and people would be laughed at for buying these.
If wizards kills the collectibility of the cards by being too greedy and people don't like the company and there is a mass dump he is stuck with the most expensive cardboard you can ever imagine.
Because he has the world's largest revised dual land collection.
These prices will definitely bounce back. If the sell prices drop even half as much as the buy prices, now's a great time to buy.
The only way I can cope with the garbage fire crazy that has gone on with magic is to create a story line to explain it.
Mark calls a meeting at WOTC and gets the people together. He says "look guys Hasbro has bought us so there will have to be changes." Room goes into a roar of "they can't do this" and "sobs in the corner". Mark speaks up "But I have a plan we are going to make poor design choices on mechanics cards excetera. And cost Hasbro to lose so much money they will have to sell us". Some intern guy "But won't that make alot of players mad". Mark "I'll have to bear the weight of it like my father Optimus Prime once said " " Hero's are rarely called upon at a time of their choosing" ".
Rosewater has 0 credibility. This is the same man who went on the record on his Twitter/blog saying there would never be any outside IP introduced into MTG. And look at where we are now
Never seen Rudy so excited to talk about a crash 😂😂
Yes he is gonna be buying duals again eventually
he's buying duals under the table even as we speak
@@NoProHarrie he more then likely already bought them as card kingdom is out of dual lands revised again some lands zero most they have 1-2
@@slaytronic nah just like in 2011/2012 they De-list them and sit on many waiting for it to drive prices back up as it goes.
People seeing 9 of each in stock makes people not feel like they're so special or rare and/or hard to come by. Making them seem more rare helps shift prices. I talked with one of the SCG higher ups as well as Sasso from CFB when all this went on before and they help coordinate things like this to weather the market.
Honestly if they go to 100£ im gonna buy some bayous to complete a set.
😮 I remember you reporting on Revised speculation, Rudy!
Sweet, I might finally get to complete my revised set.
How?
@@hunterapena Maybe buying?
But he could draw the cards by hand as well. Who knows?
@@hunterapena by playing for ante
They should just reprint the reserve list. It would be nice to get some game pieces for a game I enjoy playing. Collectors will still collect all the original reserve cards.
I think Mark Rosewater gets alot of heat for coperate decision he has no say in. Hes the designer of new sets, not their CFO.
He enjoys being their Hurloon Minotaur, let him take the lumps that come with it.
He's a mouthpiece. He deserves all the hate.
what? if he has no say in these decisions then why is he making definitive statements he has no control over? makes no sense. the criticism is well deserved.
People have forgotten about the word called integrity and it's sad. If MaRo was really against this he could and should have quit WOTC. He has made a lot of money anyway and could have made more money if he brought his "talents" to another TCG. Instead, he chose to be part of this. 2 black lotuses in 1 pack, my @ass.
@@alister214 i dont think he deserves hate. I do think he has no credibility anymore though. We nos know he doesnt havs the authority to keep his promises so we cant trust them.
This is why I've only bought reserved list cards that I actually intend on playing for the cheapest I could find it. Hoarding reserved list cards if they're not reprinted is only killing the game. Outside of MTGO, Legacy isn't gaining any new players, to keep these formats from dying off, the prices need to be kept in check.
Yup, the 30th will make them a small fortune and cost them a large fortune in lost revenue on the rest of the game -- all at the same time! It's called "business acumen."
It is what I hope. They can make 40 millions out of 30th Edition and lose 40 millions out of upset customers not buying into their other products and it would make me happy.
As a collector and player of the game, im glad to see the prices dropping so that it's available to more people who want to play with them
Obviously Rudy wants to buy more revised so hes making this video to push the price down
I dumped all my revised dual lands in the last 12 months. Back in June I sold of an additional small group, Plateau being in there, which got me a brand new Beretta 92x. Score!
I don't think I've ever seen Rudy looking so upset.
You obviously didn't see that video where they got his taco order wrong and the lady in Earthbind rejected him all in one day.
I m a french timmy who lives in Paris and I barely speak english. I don t know what a patron is. I don t own much magic stuff. I don t eat tacos....
But Rudy , I think I might have a addiction issue with your videos. I just can t help watching those talks.
I want you to know that if it s a privilege for you to entertain us , it s a privilege for me to be entertained by you.
Don't care about Revised Duals, but I would like more Unlimited Duals if I can get them for a great price. Here's hoping 30th will cause them to retrace hard too.
The thing is that the supplies of Unlimited was considerabily lower of Revised.
But honestly if we compare the previous prices of U vs R duals, the latter seemed to be overinflated, especially given how worse they look in terms of colour and text.
My view: Mark Rosewater never wanted to reprint the cards and wanted to maintain the integrity of the reserve list, Corporate said "me likey muny" and did it anyways. It hurts MaRo's image and they don't care about theirs
Hasbro is about to learn the lesson WotC had to learn during Chronicles.
and a lot of modern day players to, who may not have experience how Chronicles affected the market and may be against the reserve list
The way that modern players interact with the game is different though. I feel like a lot of people have this weird point of view where they want to open valuable Chase cards. But they also want a proxy and like want the cards to cost nothing. It's a weird mentality. I would say that at least half of it is that they are jealous of people with old reserved list cards
> *Hasbro is about to learn the lesson WotC had to learn during Chronicles.*
I hope they have more backbone this time - instead of grossly overreacting like WotC did (continued to do) with how the RL was structured (as opposed to how it could have been handled) - not to mention that there is something to be said about how organic, or inorganic, the value lost is.
@@Monechetti Its not one player who wants it both ways.. but a shift from the old to the new. Its currently two different main subsets of players (and probably many smaller ones.) One is the pack opening excitement player. He wants to open cool powerful cards out of packs and see what they can do. Make decks and play with others. Show off his cool pulls and special cards. Possibly drafts and goes to FNM. Plays 60 card formats. The Other is the casual player. Doesn't get sucked into the FNM culture. Doesn't crack packs or draft. Buys singles and plays a lot of commander and cube style games. This player loves anthology collections and wants all cards to be affordable as he actively maintains a lot of decks. WOTC has bred this second style of player with their active contempt towards the playerbase via the lies, power creep, bad card/foil quality, and price gouging. 30th anniversary has further shifted the thought process of a lot of these players . The sentiment online is" If I sell my duals I can just use the money to buy a proxy of everything I want now, since Wizards is willing to print "proxy" cards at the absurd 4 packs for $1k price point."
This is no where near Chronicles. 1) Hasbro CAN'T be sued over this, 2) This is a limited product sold at $333 a pack not $2.95, 3) These aren't actual cards, they hold the same value as a Swamp with "Black Lowtiz, tap to ad 3 of any coler" written by a 2021 college grad with a $300k education (and they thought they spelled that all right)....this is a blip....
Because some people have thousands of dollars worth of more seemingly scarce items, that perceived scarcity is what makes even MP Alpha Commons sell with palpable demand. I had transitioned from modern to legacy to have a more stable price point if i decided (which I did) to stop building decks halfway through. So now I am soaking up some more affordable alphas
First?😅 glad I sold all my dual lands a month ago!
Rudy your videos are exploding,so many likes and comments and new subs,congrats you deserve it you Taco King! Thank you!
As a player that sold my collection years ago and is getting back into the game this year, these price drops are great. There was no way I could justify a purchase of a revised dual even 2 or 3 months ago. At this price though, I can maybe snag one a month and not feel too terrible about the price and boost my mana bases.
Exactly, thank you for right off the bat stating that they promised separately and apart not only not to reprint the reserved list but not to reprint it in any form as well, making a promise not to reprint CE and sets of the like. Watch them “find” more stuff just like legends… they”ll thread the needle somehow. They fully intend to release more reserved stuff in the future
In Europe, prices for Duals are stable, otherwise I would buy them 😕
It will change here too soon obvs.
Probably lots of more idiots in USA than Europe to buy the 30th product. Remember, they elected Trump... So obviously European prices will be more stable.
Same here, let's patiently wait and strike hard once they drop!
@@AZNCIess Then there is a rush on those things and prices will go up again. I think.
Those things will always stay expensive untill they reprint the hell out of them.
@@simoncph U. sea is going up...
Hey Timmy go watch for first video about this, you literally said it was great cool and didn’t affect the reserve list because the fonts were different!! Timmy jack
Wow I am lucky to sell my land before this happened, holy sh*t.
Edit: Do to them making cards from the list maybe we can have a xenomorph secret lair with the Slivers being xenos and the sliver queen being the xenomorph queen, now that would be a dream come true. I am saying this while also owning a Sliver Queen.
Buying my first revised dual from kingdom of cards today!!!
Revised duals crashing? I can only see this as an absolute win.
Even if this game is slowly dying?
@@alfascorpi even though it seems the number of players is going up every year
@@williamstewart1883 true for the previous years, it remains to be seen for the near future.
@@alfascorpi Cards becoming affordable hardly hurts the game. Investors and collectors don't play the game, they literally just buy stocks in the form of playing cards.
@@alfascorpi Oh if that's what is required to me affordably acquire dual lands, yeah. Absolutely. I'm not going to stop playing the game. Let's not kid ourselves. The vast majority of people selling these cards right now aren't folk who play the game with their cards. They're holding the cards as an investment.
they are going to find pallets of these 30th anniversary boxes in a warehouse 20 years from now and put them randomly in packs as chase cards for 50th anniversary
These old cards are going to recover as they will always be more special than some crappy new proxie reprints.
The thing is: Since Wizards accepted that we can play with proxies, who's gonna buy the tournament legal ones anyways? I personally stopped buying sealed product, singles over 5 dolars and I'm all into proxies...
This price behavior is following this same logic, the demand for original cards will drop considerably.
@@enleteli you cant play with proxies in a tournament, but you do you, by all means print proxies. That has nothing to do with the specialness of vintage cards. When did you ever need Wotc permission to play with proxies at home or with friends?
@@enleteliWell..i really like to play magic....but with original cards....and i think i am not alone with this opinion🤓
@@TheSenselessName Woo, you like playing with cards that cost thousands of dollars with the same functionality as a $1 proxy? Only difference is you can use them in tournaments that over 90% of the playerbase does not participate in. The best part is that there are proxies that look so authentic at a glance that it's like playing with beta power 9 and dual lands.
Thanks much for this video. I appreciate you breaking stuff down. I am not a collector, but a player. However the nuts and bolts on how these things work are worth knowing. I am pretty cheesed off wth MtG 30th. I have been playing since 1995 and feel really cheated with all of this.
Just an idea for a game in the future... I would make a reserved list for art. I would retain the ability to reprint cards, but I would limit all art to the period until a set goes out of print. Then, for all new reprints, they would have to use different art. That method retains the collectability of the originals, but allows for game control for the designer. It also keeps new printings as collectables, because they will also be limited.
Can confirm, very bloated on Revised Duals from folks panic selling. My recommendation: BUY THE DIP. Selling right now is quite possibly the worst move you can make.
I’m confused as to why people would sell just because non tournament legal was printed, cause it’s mostly used in casual?
Think the thought process is, the promise has been broken, the belief is more reprints will happen now. Especially if pappa Hasbro makes a ton of cash off the 30th anniversary packs. Good for players, especially if they become cheap, bad for collectors/investors in cardboard stocks.
Outrage does not induce clearheaded behavior.
@@bobtower66 sounds like a good reason to buy these idiots cards
@@CreepyPastaSalad LOL it's true but people rarely are clearheaded
i'm a RL absolutist and expansionist, but i'm pretty happy with a temporary dip in revised duals based on my weak position. my LGS quoted me $350 for a played scrubland a month ago. i had to contain my laughter. i'll make sure to go back and ask again, as it's surely still in the cabinet. they hardly consider condition and always quote top price afraid to leave money on the table. instead, they leave the cards there. i paid about that much for a M+ collectors edition one there a year ago. when i heard the announcement of 30, i knew i'd be back on mission collecting duals under $200 for a bit.
Not a fan of this TCG, but your video are so funny man I watch them all and pretend I care about revised cards and reprints etc.
Never stop the "FOOOLK!!" intro's, I literally laugh at them every single time.
I usually just watch his life stories and financial lessons. But videos like this are also fun.
So there was one positive thing to come from Magic 30.
Wizards messed up organized play and this is what you get. it was only a matter of time. They can't just rely on Commander and Arena.
This. After messing with competitive play we could all just proxy everything.
Sounds like "revised isn't woth the time and risk - better sell everything of to Mr. Rudy!" :D
Great video as always!
Gonna get myself some finally. Btw has anyone noticed how scrublands have the biggest pull rate from these anniversary packs?
I think the dopes forgot to print the others.
Thats cuz WOTC thinks we're a bunch of scrubs🤷♂️
@@J0SHUAKANE beat me to it 👏 👏 👏
Unless you are card kingdom you aren’t getting the prices they are buylisting for.
20-25 years ago, my friend and I that played a lot of Magic and bought a ton of cards used to speculate that they would reprint the restricted list cards. No doubt that when a company matures and their cashflow drops for whatever reason, they will start doing things to get their bottom line back to where it was. Otherwise people get fired. There is no real barrier to reprints other than what prior company officials have said so you can see it will eventually happen. They will probably figure out how to create other types of rarity for the aftermarket... look at sports cards for the model.
I don’t think Mark Rosewater lied, I think he was overruled as Hasbro decided to change their stance on reprints.
Sorry not sorry that old lands are now affordable. the speculators in the MTG market are getting what they get for literally gatekeeping the game in terms of price. The reserved list was a mistake to begin with and now the 'investors' have only themselves to blame for the issues we face today. again, sorry not sorry.
Mark Rosewater's Dad here. I just wanted to apologize. Mark is the way he is because I was very hard on him when he was growing up. I told his Mom when he first started working at WOTC, that he had joined a cult that practices magic. She cries about it to this day.
Can't wait to have my 40duals back love it
40 is the minimum...
Wow all my proxies i bought from wish 4 years ago are looking better and better each day lmfao sooo hard
Speculators: NOOO!!! YOU CAN'T TAKE AWAY MY CARDBOARD STOCKS!!! I HAVE SO MUCH INVESTED!!! 😢
Players: haha funny line go down 🙂
The Duals were inflated from the pandemic spending spree. People that never gave a shit about the game or collecting the cards bought them because of hype and nothing else to do. The prices were so overinflated, and people who never intended to get the cards are now selling them because they need cash, that this was bound to happen.
Also likely some portion of the sales are people realizing they don't need duals to play commander anymore, since WOTC is pushing their own proxies now.
anybody remember revised wheel of fortune at $1000?
I bought one for $50 back in 98 or 99.
Pepperidge Farm remembers
We appreciate your honesty 😊
i dont love watching the evil investors failing. I do love when game pieces become more affordable for players.
100% this. I don’t think duals or reserved list will drop that much long term, but I wish it would. I would love to be able to afford a Legacy deck.
History shows that Rudy said stay the course and cards are still cheap for revised just 12 months ago!
The power of proxies
It's not really the proxies that did it. It's the underlying sentiment behind them.
I wish proxy king would talk to rudy about how his sales have changed
Proxies are for poor players
@@joshg218 So you have a lot then?
@@SHADOWCLOUDGAMING I'm the loser reporting proxies and fake cards on ebay.. I don't believe they have any place in the game or anywhere near it
Mark probably didn’t want to lie and if he had final say it probably wouldn’t have happened.
MaRo is a robot. He says what he has been programmed to say.
Quit simping for him.
So? Rosewater said something would NEVER happen. And then it did.
MaRo apologist 🤢
It wouldn’t be the first time he’s lied.
Welcome to MTG Do you want fries with that?
Also.... let it drop. If it all collapses, at least will have.... a legend of a Card Game to talk about.... Let the rumors begin!
wish these prices would reflect the same on TCGplayer lol
Are you seeing this shit?! What a time to be alive.
Finally something good came from these proxies.
Boom! Im buying all in already!!!!
It's not about being happy over other people's misery, but rather being happy that these game pieces might actually become affordable for actual players instead of just speculators.
I haven’t seen any big jumps on eBay. I can see a store stop buying or reduce price if that story personally has bought too many. People selling their investments seems more indicative of the overall economy as a whole.
Going to be very interesting to see how prices for 4 horseman sets react in the coming months
On a positive note it does mean that people who didn’t have the option to buy them back then can now get them a little more affordably (which isn't saying much since they're still extremely expensive for a piece of cardboard).
Players are excited to see the second market collapse because it makes the game more expensive to play or in some cases unplayable
collecting is the first part of playing. not having a safe and stable store of value makes the game less playable for the players with actual wallets and enough cognitive function to think more than five minutes ahead. if players want the game to continue to grow and expand in a positive way, they'd hopefully see the larger long term potential downside of the damage done to the company. that said, i'm personally thrilled revised duals are expectedly dipping. but if you don't think it's temporary, there's still no good reason to buy them. 99.9% of the player base is kitchen table or rule zero, so it's just a waste of slightly less money if they were without the potential resale upside.