Ripple and Bigman have pointed out that you can attack during any frame of shield drop after a power shield and this technique is just attacking the very first frame of the Shield drop animation. So the name PSC doesn't actually make sense since we're just using the normal power shield mechanics but attacking on the very first frame possible. It's still a really important technique though
@Hornilope stop insulting people now, also, get your facts straight L-Canceling was discovered in the the original smash bros. When Melee came out it was one of the first things serious players tried to do secondly, wavedashing wasn't discovered until 3-5 years after melee was out thirdly, power shielding was basically bad in melee because it made you slide, thus if this was already known in melee people probably didn't know or care about it since it wasn't very useful stop feeding the troll
@TeeKayDee No. You don't have to unblock to perform an up B or shieldgrab, but you still gain a better advantage through PSC vs a normal shield grab or Up B OOS. And just because I don't play Brawl doesn't mean I don't keep up with the game and it's scene.
@1:36 I would like to say that you can f-smash and d-smash out of PSC. Doing it real time, you can just use your c-stick, and as long as you aren't holding down the shield button, the desired smash attack will come out. I think the main problem may be that when you do a smash manually out of PSC, if you don't hit the A button slightly earlier than the directional input will combine with the shield button so you get roll/sidestep. I tested all these out just now, so I am not theorycrafting.
People there is nothing wrong with debating. Hornilope wasn't looking for a debate, he was looking to make fun of Brawlers. comments like his should be ignored so please just drop it everyone BTW to everyone who's asking: If you want to force MK to tornado low, just crouch and then PSC when he goes over where your body would be if you were standing. The jab should hit
i like how the music came on during the PSCing. It sounded like MK is finally being defeated. and all the other characters are Rebelling against his Reign. On srs note. I'll make time to learn this.
LMAO I love how this video seems to be an epic montage of the rest of the Smash Bros. cast uniting to stand strong against the towering force that is Meta Knight. lmao "WE'RE NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!! We will stand and FIGHT!"
I used to do this with Peach all the time back in late 08-09. I never really thought it would be such an amazing technique. Not taking any sort of credit, I never really considered it a technique, just good timing. Watching all those characters deny MK out of his tornado almost make me jerk a tear, it was... beautiful. =]
@Pierce7d I should probably add annotations so people know what's happening. Anything that happens with out a power shield is just a normal OOS option perfectly timed. Since Diddy's Usmash comes out in 5 frames you can do it oos at the end of the nado
Thanks for uploading this; it's fascinating to think about the impact this will have. Unfortunately for me, I play as Meta Knight. Well, time for me to learn to be good as someone else! I was sick of people groaning at me for picking MK.
This video is epic simply because Captain Falcon stopped one of MK's moves. The music was good too. But seriously this technique is going to make fighting MK somewhat easier now. Thanks again -313
@Yayuhzz Dude this video was aepic, I'd thought I'd at least try to say something slightly poetic. :P I am so happy this was shared with the rest of the brawl community... Way too happy, I think. :D
Hey VideoGameBootCamp this work for Link too???, i didnt see any Link moment of glory in the video please answere my, your video was cool and i have to know if Link also can do that move
I don't play brawl much anymore but I know the annoyance of MK's tornadoes, along with the music this was amazing. At least brawl has some sort of upward moving meta game now.
Is it possible to still do using "L" for shield and "R" for attack? because I use Y for special. Any ideas if anyone can think of something? Maybe set B at as shield and use A as attack? idk what do you think?
This is awesome but like some others said it is pretty weird this is just being found. Even the video says it's essentially mashing the attack button after you power shield. Anyways, my question is where does the spacing come into play at? Shouldn't anyone quick enough be able to do it at anytime?
@Jelley0 Yes he will. This may help stop nado, but it's not like a MK player won't use this against other attacks. Like Diddy's USmash, Samus' Uair near the ground, even against another nado. This a very good AT though, definitely one every player should know.
what about fox shine? press L and then press Down-B after ? I was wondering what about PSC + jump + Down-B ? (canceling jump with fox Shines makes a very fast shine? has someone try that?
the powershield in Melee acted the same way, it's not a poweshield canceling it's just a powershield >_>. But I give you full credits for finding a way to punish metaknight's tornado.
@archlordXd0 that's weird, I was always told it was 3 or more years afterward. Maybe that's when it was actually implemented correctly into competitive play
That's pretty insane. Now everyone has a way of fighting back against 'Nado-happy Meta Knights. innocentroads definitely deserves props for discovering this. ^-^
@MrWaffleFri its just attacking out of a powershield lol, i have no idea why its named something special, its just to trick people into thinking its new or fancy and hasnt been happening since week 2 of brawl
@Hornilope You're the best man, thanks for all of your totally insightful wisdom and and helpful contribution to the metagame. We will look no further than the name of Hornyloop when seeking guidance and security.
@Fallennova Because Tornado is rape any way you do it. Even the most predictable players can use nado to: 1. Eat ur shield 2. Bait people grounded 3. Few moves can break tornado and even those moves take great timing to hit a well space nado. 4. Pops you up to get combo'd Why not use it?
I wrote about that grab stuff shown in the second part of the thread over 3 months ago in the DSC Derivatives thread GIMR :/ And had a friend make a video of it. First part is cool. But second part has already been covered
>snake PSC Utilt >MK PSC Up B >falco PSC Grab to CG lol the bad get good the good get great the great get better and the gods ascend the mortal plane gg brawl. i wish your metagame the best
I wrote about that grab stuff shown in the second part of the thread over 3 months ago in the DSC Derivatives thread GIMR :/ And had a friend make a video of it. First part is cool.
I love how people are obnoxious enough to say, "Oh I knew about this a long time ago lololol". It only means this video made a contribution to the community when you should have, but didn't.
Exactly, and this person was fairly reliable (I'll name no names, no point in blaming people now) so I just trusted it. GOOD SHIT GIMR FOR BRINGING THE TRUTH TO LIGHT! Now explain one thing to me. There are several clips where you retaliate without a powershield, or without immediately unshielding. The second clip of Diddy, starting around 2:17 is a good example of this. Does this mean you don't require a powershield to shield drop cancel?
People say brawl ended in 2008. People say that the brawl to end them all has since passed, and that no skill, no luck, no fun ever came out of it. People think that Brawl is an unskilled game which anyone can attain victory by choosing an "OP" character like Meta Knight. You know what I have to say to that? I say... The fight's just beginning. Thumbs up if you believe that this video has trigged an uprising for all characters. This time, we will take MK down for good.
I don't think this is much of a problem for MK, since it doesn't stop the "Try to airdodge to the ground, Tornado will be over there" problem. Tornado is indisputably broken, but MK, without it, is still overpowered as hell. This STILL won't give him any remotely bad matchups or change the matchup that drastically for most characters. Still, a skill worth perfecting.
This is cool and all, but most good MK players high tornado. I'm sure a lot of moves will work against High tornado out of PSCing but that'll pretty much determine how this develops.
I didn't know you could cancel hitlag.....Wait...... But in all seriousness, this is just a regular powershield + attempting to mash a move at the first possible frame available.
@DisasterPiece0302 People used to think that l canceling in melee consistently was hard. Now at high level play, you shouldn't miss any of the hundred or so that you'll do in a set. If this really gives you an advantage, I can see people practicing and becoming extremely consistent with it.
Ripple and Bigman have pointed out that you can attack during any frame of shield drop after a power shield and this technique is just attacking the very first frame of the Shield drop animation. So the name PSC doesn't actually make sense since we're just using the normal power shield mechanics but attacking on the very first frame possible. It's still a really important technique though
@Hornilope stop insulting people now, also, get your facts straight
L-Canceling was discovered in the the original smash bros. When Melee came out it was one of the first things serious players tried to do
secondly, wavedashing wasn't discovered until 3-5 years after melee was out
thirdly, power shielding was basically bad in melee because it made you slide, thus if this was already known in melee people probably didn't know or care about it since it wasn't very useful
stop feeding the troll
"Warning: the following techniques are very difficult to pull off."
How to do it - power shield to tapping A.
OH BRAWL
It might just be me. But I'm pretty sure for some reason these doesn't work on PAL, not claiming anything 100% though
This is a very legit find. Lol at the adventure hero music when everyone is able to stop the nado.
is so funny the way the music starts so inspiring when MK tornado is beggining to be stoped!
wooooow, this is awesome
loving this game more and more
great find (Y) ;)
IzawSmash your an OG
The timing on annotations is screwed up. Here's also hoping to a vid about Pika's QAC! :)
@TeeKayDee No. You don't have to unblock to perform an up B or shieldgrab, but you still gain a better advantage through PSC vs a normal shield grab or Up B OOS.
And just because I don't play Brawl doesn't mean I don't keep up with the game and it's scene.
@1:36 I would like to say that you can f-smash and d-smash out of PSC. Doing it real time, you can just use your c-stick, and as long as you aren't holding down the shield button, the desired smash attack will come out. I think the main problem may be that when you do a smash manually out of PSC, if you don't hit the A button slightly earlier than the directional input will combine with the shield button so you get roll/sidestep. I tested all these out just now, so I am not theorycrafting.
People there is nothing wrong with debating. Hornilope wasn't looking for a debate, he was looking to make fun of Brawlers. comments like his should be ignored so please just drop it everyone
BTW to everyone who's asking:
If you want to force MK to tornado low, just crouch and then PSC when he goes over where your body would be if you were standing. The jab should hit
The music made this video more epic then it was supposed to be.
@Hornilope agreed. i mean how long did it take for L cancel and wave dashing to be figured out?
i like how the music came on during the PSCing. It sounded like MK is finally being defeated. and all the other characters are Rebelling against his Reign.
On srs note. I'll make time to learn this.
Why do we tap A twice? Why didn't I hear the perfect shield whenever ROB grabbed MK the 2nd time?
I love this. I just have some questions
LMAO I love how this video seems to be an epic montage of the rest of the Smash Bros. cast uniting to stand strong against the towering force that is Meta Knight. lmao
"WE'RE NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!! We will stand and FIGHT!"
I used to do this with Peach all the time back in late 08-09. I never really thought it would be such an amazing technique. Not taking any sort of credit, I never really considered it a technique, just good timing. Watching all those characters deny MK out of his tornado almost make me jerk a tear, it was... beautiful. =]
Does an aerial tornado react differently to this than a grounded one? I don't think I saw an aerial one used in the video.
@Pierce7d I should probably add annotations so people know what's happening. Anything that happens with out a power shield is just a normal OOS option perfectly timed. Since Diddy's Usmash comes out in 5 frames you can do it oos at the end of the nado
@Pierce7d same with me, some one told me they frame tested it and that there was still shield drop frames
Thanks for uploading this; it's fascinating to think about the impact this will have.
Unfortunately for me, I play as Meta Knight.
Well, time for me to learn to be good as someone else! I was sick of people groaning at me for picking MK.
This video is epic simply because Captain Falcon stopped one of MK's moves.
The music was good too.
But seriously this technique is going to make fighting MK somewhat easier now. Thanks again
-313
@Yayuhzz Dude this video was aepic, I'd thought I'd at least try to say something slightly poetic. :P I am so happy this was shared with the rest of the brawl community...
Way too happy, I think. :D
by the way..is there a smashboards link for this/put it in the description if there is.
Hey VideoGameBootCamp
this work for Link too???, i didnt see any Link moment of glory in the video
please answere my, your video was cool and i have to know if Link also can do that move
I don't play brawl much anymore but I know the annoyance of MK's tornadoes, along with the music this was amazing. At least brawl has some sort of upward moving meta game now.
i see this being done only to GROUNED tornado
does it work on aerial tornado?
Soooooo what do you do when they mash b, did test and uh, its not possible,
Is it possible to still do using "L" for shield and "R" for attack? because I use Y for special.
Any ideas if anyone can think of something? Maybe set B at as shield and use A as attack? idk what do you think?
What about when you're in the air? Metaknight pwns me in the air with the Mach Tornado.
This is awesome but like some others said it is pretty weird this is just being found. Even the video says it's essentially mashing the attack button after you power shield.
Anyways, my question is where does the spacing come into play at? Shouldn't anyone quick enough be able to do it at anytime?
what if i jump with y? what is the second easiest control setting?
@Jelley0 Yes he will. This may help stop nado, but it's not like a MK player won't use this against other attacks. Like Diddy's USmash, Samus' Uair near the ground, even against another nado. This a very good AT though, definitely one every player should know.
what about fox shine? press L and then press Down-B after ? I was wondering what about PSC + jump + Down-B ? (canceling jump with fox Shines makes a very fast shine? has someone try that?
the powershield in Melee acted the same way, it's not a poweshield canceling it's just a powershield >_>.
But I give you full credits for finding a way to punish metaknight's tornado.
Good shit. This will help out a lot of MK match-ups.
Can you buffer dash out of PSC or do you roll like when you buffer f-smash?
@archlordXd0 that's weird, I was always told it was 3 or more years afterward. Maybe that's when it was actually implemented correctly into competitive play
That's pretty insane. Now everyone has a way of fighting back against 'Nado-happy Meta Knights. innocentroads definitely deserves props for discovering this. ^-^
@Redhalberd if you crouch you can force MK to lower his nado to where you would be if you were standing and then PSC to jab
@MrWaffleFri its just attacking out of a powershield lol, i have no idea why its named something special, its just to trick people into thinking its new or fancy and hasnt been happening since week 2 of brawl
i like the warning in the beginning, it made me lawl
@Hornilope
You're the best man, thanks for all of your totally insightful wisdom and and helpful contribution to the metagame. We will look no further than the name of Hornyloop when seeking guidance and security.
Wait so PSC does not actually require a perfect shield for you to be able to buffer a move? You could do PSC from just a normal shield?
@Kisarez It's less with the chance having to do with MK, and more in a grand scheme. Then again, I could just be reading into it's abilities too far.
Is it possible to BDACUS out of the power shield cancel?
@TheSiIentXelxas
Yes it will because you can just jump cancel it. It can also be done OoS normally anyways.
@Patmancav66 have x for jump though.
y=special
x=jump
r=attack
tapjump off
everything else is default
@HiIh76 but in another video i saw a king DDD do tit this, and his jab is slow too, link jab is quite fast
Superb editing.
*Starts chain grabbing Meta Knight as Bowser.*
@SkaLover257 whats the best controller?
@Fallennova Because Tornado is rape any way you do it.
Even the most predictable players can use nado to:
1. Eat ur shield
2. Bait people grounded
3. Few moves can break tornado and even those moves take great timing to hit a well space nado.
4. Pops you up to get combo'd
Why not use it?
I...cried while watching this. THIS WAS BEAUTIFUL. ;___;
@TeeKayDee Also, key statement is, "You dont have to".
Thank you for telling me something that's anyone could muster up.
BTW: This makes GnW's Bair completely useless. Good thing you showed us.
Fucking incredible, how did we miss this shyt?
I wrote about that grab stuff shown in the second part of the thread over 3 months ago in the DSC Derivatives thread GIMR :/
And had a friend make a video of it.
First part is cool. But second part has already been covered
Amazing video man :D loved it, youve give me hope
Can D3 not do anything with his psc on tornado?
@mynameistnb
seriously, we didnt make vids because we thought it was obvious. if a game has parry that parry can cancel.
>snake PSC Utilt
>MK PSC Up B
>falco PSC Grab to CG
lol
the bad get good
the good get great
the great get better
and the gods ascend the mortal plane
gg brawl.
i wish your metagame the best
I wrote about that grab stuff shown in the second part of the thread over 3 months ago in the DSC Derivatives thread GIMR :/
And had a friend make a video of it.
First part is cool.
This doesn't help Wifi. But yea my brother does this, you have to take the triggers out of your controller to make it easier to do however.
PSC is still good to know but last time I checked, using tornado as an approach was a big no-no anyway, right?
I love how people are obnoxious enough to say, "Oh I knew about this a long time ago lololol". It only means this video made a contribution to the community when you should have, but didn't.
Exactly, and this person was fairly reliable (I'll name no names, no point in blaming people now) so I just trusted it.
GOOD SHIT GIMR FOR BRINGING THE TRUTH TO LIGHT!
Now explain one thing to me. There are several clips where you retaliate without a powershield, or without immediately unshielding. The second clip of Diddy, starting around 2:17 is a good example of this. Does this mean you don't require a powershield to shield drop cancel?
how do i buffer something OoS?
No OOS options for DK shown :(
Will Mk remain the best after this? I personally think Diddy is the best though
@Reneblade
So I can play like Tero and Pinkshinobi?
brilliant
so basically it's buffering a move out of a perfect shield..?
In this game, you can buffer EVERYTHING, so a dash out of this is possible.
This is the definition of PowerShielding.
This is why powershielding is any good at all.
I wish he would have shown Yoshi's PSC.
lol at the olimar part
crickets and everything
Would Perfect Shield Cancel be a better name?
Good thing yoshi's one of my sub-mains, cos his grab can stop mach tornado and drill rush
This video is from a different era.
i need a second to breathe here. so epic......
If a luigi could consistently sweet spot up-b with this... Holy shit, he'd literally be untouchable.
People say brawl ended in 2008. People say that the brawl to end them all has since passed, and that no skill, no luck, no fun ever came out of it. People think that Brawl is an unskilled game which anyone can attain victory by choosing an "OP" character like Meta Knight.
You know what I have to say to that?
I say... The fight's just beginning.
Thumbs up if you believe that this video has trigged an uprising for all characters. This time, we will take MK down for good.
I don't think this is much of a problem for MK, since it doesn't stop the "Try to airdodge to the ground, Tornado will be over there" problem. Tornado is indisputably broken, but MK, without it, is still overpowered as hell. This STILL won't give him any remotely bad matchups or change the matchup that drastically for most characters.
Still, a skill worth perfecting.
@Spuddud thats why he showed examples of characters tat can do smashes and up-Bs oos
this thing is pretty spacing specific though, it's not like you can always do it lol...that being said this is a pretty nice find =)
@Spuddud
You can use your Up-smash as well. ;)
parry has been in since melee. im surprised its just now getting noticed.
just for the record, this is actually really old
@archlordXd0 I actually don't think it will be that enormous of a change.
pikachu also can QAC out of the PSC, which could lead to massive opportunities
so this only works on a grounded tornado
aerial tornado has differend priority
@VideoGameBootCamp ... wavedashing was discovered in 2002 my friend, not to belittle anything you said though.
This is cool and all, but most good MK players high tornado. I'm sure a lot of moves will work against High tornado out of PSCing but that'll pretty much determine how this develops.
@Izaw91 aren't you a brawl player though? lol.
I NEVER thought I'd say this. But I guess they were right.
It was too soon to ban metaknight.
I think we have found the (relative) equivalent to wavedashing in melee. Oh shiz.
@Reneblade
that can be done in every fighting game. melee isn't exempt from being campy and defensive
Innocentroads changing the metagame.
I didn't know you could cancel hitlag.....Wait......
But in all seriousness, this is just a regular powershield + attempting to mash a move at the first possible frame available.
@DisasterPiece0302
People used to think that l canceling in melee consistently was hard. Now at high level play, you shouldn't miss any of the hundred or so that you'll do in a set.
If this really gives you an advantage, I can see people practicing and becoming extremely consistent with it.