Check out our Lenovo Legion Go review! th-cam.com/video/I37mxlDqLrk/w-d-xo.html Watch our ROG Ally Z1 Extreme review! Includes thermals, acoustics, power, and comparisons against Steam Deck & AYA Neo parts: th-cam.com/video/Na1y7DyDe2w/w-d-xo.html Remember to grab something on the store to support us & the shelter Cat Angels at the same time, active for a couple more weeks: store.gamersnexus.net/
I think the GPU Busy chart needs to show finer resolution so we can see the difference between frametime vs gpubusy, like is the gap 3ms or 12ms. just a thought
Would be really awesome if you guys would look into overclocking and/or undervolting these devices! And see what kind of impact those have on battery/noise/performance. Maybe even repaste it with liquid metal or something to see how far you can get!
Hey, I'm curious about what happens to GPU performance when you disable CPU boost on the ally, Im assuming it would allow for lower temps and more power to go to the GPU, maybe keeping temps lower and clocks higher on the GPU?
@@billyhatcher643but which Steam Deck? I personally chose to buy the Steam Deck, because the price difference between the Steam Deck and Steam Deck didn’t make much sense, even if the upsell from the Steam Deck to the Steam Deck wasn’t as bad as the upsell from the Steam Deck to the Steam Deck. Really happy I chose that Steam Deck.
That's what I'm thinking unless they thought it could compete better with the steam deck? But that'd be stupid, no one is buying a 512 steam deck unless they are a valve fanboy
Exactly. ASUS is preying on consumers possible lack of knowledge of PC hardware. If I were new to the gaming scene and wanting a handheld device I’d probably pick the cheaper one and be screwed without even knowing it. Scummy and deceptive. Lovely. Not that I’d ever buy a ASUS handheld that’s heavily locked into the tumor that is armory crate.
@@Neatrior Uhm actually people like the armoury crate version for ally only enough to ask for it to be ported to laptops. Second the average consumer that buys an before the Z1 released is ignorant already no diff if asus swindled them or not half of them will return because it doesn’t run all their games on 1080p 120fps
No one would think it's the same but cheaper. I bought the non-extreme because most of my games aren't demanding. That's why this version exists. For those who do run demanding games you're paying an extra $200 and still having poor performance, ie sub 60 fps.
It's just % scaling. You look at the % gap between the Extreme and Non-Extreme, the % gap between the Extreme and the Steam Deck (already published), and that answers the question.
Um not sure this can work as early in The vid it says the testing is not directly comparable. May i ask how this approach differs (not trying to be snippy just bad at wording my thoughts)
@@WineLad relative scaling with percentages in this way would work. There would be very little impact. It's just absolute numbers that can't compare directly.
@@GamersNexus There's enough PC gaming portables out on the market. Maybe you could consider a comparison showdown between them all in a new video? Would be easier to visualize in a direct comparison.
@@GamersNexusThe Steam Deck is a popular Handheld PC and it will help consumers to use it as a benchmark. If a device is 125% faster but 200% more expensive than the Deck then that's something to look for. While one could compare the older video the bottom line is that it's not Apple to Oranges because there's been software updates between back then and today.
300% the GPU performance on paper. 20% in the real world. I wouldnt call that huge. And today the Z1 extreme is 150% the price but only gives you 120% the performance.
I was honestly expecting a bigger gap in performance based off the specs. But unfortunately if you're playing 3D games on this thing, that extra ~20% or so of performance can easily mean the difference between a game being fine, or flat-out unplayable. I can kinda see it being fine if you're mainly planning to play more lightweight/2D games on it though, which is probably the only case where you'll be able to take advantage of its upgraded screen anyways.
@@IceManHG117Yeah but that's only for when it's plugged into a wall, the difference on battery is much smaller. Which, idk, maybe that's how some people like to use these devices? And it's certainly nice to have. But the whole reason I bought a steam deck was to be able to play it away from a wall outlet, so battery performance is much more important to me personally.
even with the z1 non extreme, that's $200 more than the cheapest steam deck which pairs fine with sd cards for storage. you're not going to be able to take advantage of the high refresh rate display in most recent games with the non extreme cpu. however, as a way for busy parents to game around the house, say, older backlogged games, the z1 makes sense if you're a frame rate snob and need 120fps. on handhelds, with controllers, i don't think it really matters as much to go over 60. I do own both the steam deck and the z1x ally, generally the deck is the backlog killer, the ally z1x is for games the deck can't hit stable framerates in, dragon engine yakuza games mainly lately. I would say anyone who wants one of these should get the cheapest deck when valve does sales for $320. mine is the 256gb model, but running games off sd works just fine. however the ally makes a lot more sense for me compared to most other people because i also already have the 16gb rtx 3080 xg mobile dock that it's compatible with. performance on it isn't great compared to other laptops and tablets that work with the xg mobile egpu. I think might be a bandwidth or pcie lane issue.
I've had the ROG Ally Z1E for about a month, or a little over. I've been greatly enjoying it and it was easily one of the best gaming purchases I've made. Those debating the Laptop vs Ally Z1E need to remember that you do not need a mouse for the Ally Z1E to be competent at gaming (outside of my one more turn in CIV6). Honestly the laptop essentially becomes tethered to an outlet in most cases with the higher wattage parts they have as well, and only has the form factor and mobility benefit over a desktop in that case itself. The Ally can be run off my Anker 737 with 12400 MAH for quite a while as well so I'm really mobile. Not tethered to my RAM 1500's power inverter mobile, real mobile with an Anker battery mobile. I have great desktop and a Zephyrus M14 with an i7 1x700 something or other and a 2060. Since getting the Ally, I have clocked more time on it, since purchase, versus both the Zephyrus and my desktop combined (Desktop with its 12700k and 3090). I have options, and generally for gaming I'll pick up the Ally. I'm just tired of sitting at a desk all day for work and sometimes want to sit in bed or on the couch playing WoW with the Console Addon, or BG3 or other games. The screen is great, I even run it at 900p with FSR for most games. In comparison to the Steam Deck. I can play games that range from Battlenet, Uplay, Windows Store, GOG, etc. I'm not locked into anything and the extra horsepower of the Ally with the Z1E is great. I'm not certain if that is something the SD can do, but it was very important to me as someone that mainly plays Battlenet, Microsoft (Forza's) and Uplay games. I enjoy being able to play some Microsoft Store games on the PC/Ally, then swapping over to the XBOX Series X as well. The Ally just compliments my game launchers and environment with my desktop, XBOX, and it. I did swap the SSD for a Corsair MP600 Mini and added a heatsink to that, but otherwise, it has absolutely been wonderful. 512 is a little small, but it's luckily replaceable easily. The other parts are pretty open to repair as well from what I've seen. Now, I'll list my 3 issues with the Ally overall. 2 of which don't affect me (items 2 and 3) but do for others and I work as management in IT Support, so they bug me because they bug others. 1. 16GB of RAM. This is my personal annoyance. It needed to be 32, especially with sharing with the GPU. Some people are even removing the 16, and soldering/flowing 32gb worth of modules onto the board. Just do it Asus. 2. The SD Card issues. I'll never use the Micro SD as I have many external NVME Drives with games ready for transer, but it does affect others and I think Asus needs to own up to that. 3. The External GPU connector (XG or something...) for the Asus proprietary GPUs....... Doesn't affect me as if I sit down to a dock, why not just sit down at my desktop. However, this is the junk that vendors need to stop. Just use oCuLink, they literally look the same and are most likely the same. ASUS NO ONE WANTS TO PAY YOUR FAKE "4090" (don't tell them it's mobile) GPU PRICE. Asus needs to stop attempting to steal money this way. Even Alienware had their external GPU dock open to you adding your own GPU to it. If Asus would give people a regular dock, instead of this junk, the world would be a better place because it'd mean that most vendors don't pull this crap any longer.
The 3 cons you discribe at the end of your post are the only three reasons i didn't buy the ally, 16go is too little in win 11, sd card destroyer is a major building mistake and if the egpu was oculink compatible this ally would have been a huge success
I'd really like to see lower resolution (720p or maybe 900p) benchmarks next time. If someone buys these devices aiming for a 40+ fps experience and picks lower resolutions, the GPU busy stats might look a bit more interesting once the CPU gets stressed more.
The Zen 4 cores in these units are amazingly powerful though and 40fps wouldn't even make them sweat in most games. My 7840U handheld legitimately outperforms my old laptop with a 1080 max Q because the latter gets crazy CPU bottlenecks in most games these days.
I had to return my rog ally extreme because the sd card reader burned up and destroyed my sd card with it. I don't think they have even fixed this issue yet. It's a gamble buying this product.
It's insane that they decided to put the reader directly over the cooling vent that can blast air upwards of 90C, when the max temps a microSD can take is 85C. The only fix is a hardware redesign.
@@ColorblindMonkHeat is not the cause of this defect, it can happen even at lower temperatures. Nobody knows the cause, not even Asus, but I suspect it might be caused by bad solder quality.
I worry that the future of mini PCs and handhelds are going to reveal manufacturers cutting costs and corners in memory/cache bandwidth. Because it doesn't read easily on a sheet and doesn't hurt average fps. But these devices will suffer stuttering and other more obtuse issues reviewers won't pick up on. I would rather a device drop the overall performance in CPU / GPU, and invest in more stable performance in bandwidth. Yes I'd like to hit 60 fps, but if I can't I'd rather have a locked framerate. Up in 144Hz territory I don't mind 10 or 20 fps swings. But down in the 40's - 30's, I do mind 5 fps, or a frame lasting 50% longer.
It might be complicated to use gddr6 as system memory, but we've seen it used in the xbox series consoles, which are basically capped windows pcs, if they make a steam deck 2 with gddr memory instead of lpddr we could see massive performance increases, it may be more of a power consumption thing though
As usually an insanely detailed review, GN crushes it again. I was surprised though to not see a bigger delta. For $100? For most buyers its easy, but for some people with a strict budget its harder. I am blown away at the Ally I got open box for $490 at BBY. Loved my SteamDeck but I like Windows ironicially and the fact that its faster than my Ryzen 3700x is absolutely bonkers.
Battery life should be indicated in the charts in seconds only or minutes + seconds only. Fractional hours is confusing since 0.1 hours is 6 minutes. Not easy to visualize the difference in minutes for 1.57 and 1.77 hours, for example. Other alternative is to hilight the difference as a percentage.
This is a move that asus seems to have taken right from the GPU market playbook. They take a product and put it right next to something in a price class to make the higher priced one look like a better value. AMD just did this with 7700xt and 7800xt.
Either that or AMD screwed a whole batch of CPU production and they sold the faulty CPUs as "new" ones with less performance. That wouldn't be surprising, tbh...
@@fridaycaliforniaa236 yep! Athlon or what was it the 3 core CPUs that they used to sell for less than the quad core option thaat was popular back when.
I honestly feel it needs to be 100 more cheaper this wont sell as well imho and even then saying that the steam deck is still far better value and tbh is implemented better software wise.
The SteamOS is something most people don't account in these performance scenarios. I tried windows on the Deck recently and it's ok with BigPicture but it doesn't feel as good as the SteamOS. In my experience, I wouldn't go to another device unless they manage to do what Steam did, regular W11 works quite well as a tablet OS but not as a handheld one.
Sorry but steam for me its not acceptable because not supporting anything outside steam.I use gog, epic, ms store.Asus is the way to go for me.Plus i have tons of old games too
This is a nice reality check ahead of the Lenovo Legion Go release, which is competing against the Extreme Z1 SKU of the ROG Ally. Looking forward to that review later this month. 😊👍🏾
I bought the non extreme version for $400, it is perfect for my 2D games and JRPG's. Even Yakuza 0 runs well at 1080p around 60fps with low to medium power settings!
For the price, I couldn’t imagine going with either version. Might as well go with something cheaper if you’re just playing 2D games, or might as well go with something more powerful if you’re trying to get above 60 fps on low settings, like a 13-15 inch gaming notebook.
Steam Deck second hand for 200 is a good little gameboy emulator even some xbox and ps2 games. Ive been playing SSX on Tour on my steam deck alongside sly cooper and it's been awesome.
Yeah, for small 2D games you could rather buy a Switch for half the price. And for a better performance? Wait 3-6 years for the next, or better, the generation after the next generation. :D
Nah people just want windows there’s a reason all thes x86 companies are still selling so well despite high prices and competition it’s because a lot people rather these smaller devices than the brick.
Problem with the Steam Deck is the worse display and SteamOS which doesn't support all PC games. The Ally has Win 11 pre installed, that alone is around 100 Eurodollars if you buy a real license from MS.^^
@@masterluckyluke Yep, and once you factor in the fact that ally comes with 512 GB of space, the pricing ends up very close. Sure, you could buy yourself 1TB storage and upgrade it yourself and save money, but the average consumer probably will not bother. Having said that, I do hope that both devices end up succeeding as that might motivate AMD to develop and release better and more efficient chips.
@@masterluckyluke On the other hand, 800p is plenty of resolution on a 7" display, and if SteamOS runs the games you want it's a vastly smoother experience to actually USE a Steam Deck.
The extreme version is probably memory bandwidth bound. The CPUs are actually very fast. It needs gddr or more memory channels, but these apus sadly don’t support that, so this is what we get.
If you want to play AAA games natively, the extreme version is the way to go. I mainly bought it to stream from my desktop at home so I can play on the couch while watching TV, along with playing less demanding games on the road without having to haul around my huge gaming laptop.
while i admit, i may be biased being a steam deck owner, i just think the deck is a lot better, especially when it comes to battery life/performance at lower wattage
So much better. I only use the Deck for emulation and low-powered games really, but it does them so flipping well. I can play TotK for 3 hours on battery, and something like Hollow Knight for 5
But what about when you look at the z1 extreme at full price vs the now heavily discounted z1 down to 399 at places like Best Buy? Would you say it’s more justifiable then?
Was wondering about ayn and asus but ended up with steam deck. Linux experience on a handheld is amazing and thought that it will run much worse. Amazing device and arch linux makes it even better
Please Review the Kryo Sheets you are promoting!! there is like zero reviews out there on it! is it WORTH dealing with thermal paste anymore? Did Thermal Grizzly just destroy they whole market?!
Now that the non Extreme Ally is available at Best Buy for $399.99, would you say it is worth the price tag to performance now? Especially vs the steam deck
I would say yes, if you are familiar with windows and play outside of Steam as well. I have the extreme version and I use it for university classes too taking notes with BT mouse and keyboard. If are able to find open box excellent, the price is better and is close to brand new. I recommend trying it before making a decision during the return window and see if it works for you.
I think the steam deck kinda beats both the models just because of the touch pads. Can't imagine trying to play WoW classic hardcore using analogue sticks for mouse control
And the custom controls. And having 4 buttons on the back. And being able to replace the joystick my dumbass broke for $20. Better battery life. More ergonomic. Joysticks in the correct ergonomic position. And thats just off the top of my head.
The Steam Deck became popular because of the same reasons the og iphone became popular. It wasn't the first of it's kind, it wasn't the only of it's kind, but it was the one that did everything right.
While both models are technically faster than the Steam Deck, the Deck is at a much lower initial price point plus the better handheld experience of the Deck is also another thing to consider.
Agreed. I don’t see a reasonable market for either model: $600-$700 is expensive enough to start encroaching on budget gaming laptops, which would perform better and come with the added versatility of a PC while not being much larger. The Steam Deck is significantly cheaper (especially on sale like it was twice this year) and is good enough for lightweight/2D games.
Yall drunk… steamdeck is great but saying the experience is better is completely disingenuous. I install games on my ally… bam and they work. No proton, no tweaking, plus it has VRR. Shits great.
It is really quite hard to justify that price bump for a much less consistent looking performance AND more importantly worse controller - you may not like to use the trackpads, gyro, heap of rear buttons in game but it all adds up to making it much more versatile and in the case of the trackpads coupled with the Steam onscreen keyboard turns a console into something that really is still useable as a real PC. Also@@nuggetpiece You can install Windows on the Deck if you like, but as Valve has put in so much work making it so seamless to use proton it really is 'bam and they work' almost as often as if it was running windows. As its not like Windoze, the driver updates and stuff like EAC etc never ever goes wrong there either. In fact since I stopped using Windows at all my computer has been much less frustrating to game and use - though as some game don't play nice proton (mostly for anti-cheat reasons) if one of those is the only game for you at least for now Linux isn't your does everything you need solution.
I cant be the only person getting one of these to play older PC games at 120fps 1080p. I cant for the life of me imagine why people would want to play AAA games at potato quality settings on these things. Old PC games cost a few dollars. Hell theres an entire WORLD of abandonware out there if you want to get into the nitty gritty.
I think a major task that people buy these handhelds for is emulation. It may be difficult with Nintendo's evil and the variability emulator updates cause, but it might be interesting to see key/performance limited emulated titles tested. I could see a major deciding factor being if someone can play a PS2 or Gamecube title at full speed native (to screen) resolution on a device vs a device that would need lower resolution or wouldn't run full speed.
The consensus among the retrogaming community is the Deck is the ultimate portable emulation machine up to PS2/GC/WiiU/Switch without problems and some madlads are testing the waters with PS3. You don't need to go to an Ally if you just want to emulate consoles.
i just got one, and most demanding games i am going to play them at 900p or 720p 30fps in silent mode, i dont need more for a device like this, kinda cool
What is interesting and also doesn't make sense to me with the non Extreme, is that the current and last previous AMD 6 core APUs have 6 CUs. So did ASUS just take the badly binned versions or did they request them to be disabled?
Previous 6-core/6cu APUs were actually physically 8-core/12cu APUs but with some cores and CUs disabled or dead. The Z1 is not like that. It is based on Phoenix 2 silicon, which only physically has 2 Zen4 cores, 4 Zen4c cores, and 4 CU. IIRC the 7440u (2 Zen4, 2 Zen4c, 4 CU) and 7540u (2 Zen4, 4 Zen4c, 4 CU) also are based on Phoenix 2, although the 7540u is rumored to have dual sourcing (some may be cut down versions of regular Phoenix, which is what's used in the Z1 Extreme and 7840u/7640u).
Keeping these CPUs from boosting all the time seems to free up some compute on the GPU side and keeps the part cooler, without a significant impact to CPU bound performance (because it can't sustain boost all the time anyway).
@@Erick-gx8qu I bought both and can say I'm more satisfied with the non extreme version because of battery life and because i don't see a major difference in fps for the games I play
@Erick-gx8qu I came across only one issue. My micro sd card stopped working on my extreme version of the rog ally I'm not sure why. I did notice it gets really hot so maybe I fried the micro sd card?
@Erick-gx8qu also both devices are great. It's way better than my steam deck oled. I highly recommend you install emudeck once you get one and update everything including the bios.
Just got the z1 for $300 due to an pricing error on Best Buy. Pretty damn good value at that price. Can't argue that at a cheaper price than a switch oled.
I always felt it was weird how large the iGPU gap was between the Ryzen 5 and Ryzen 7s for the 6000-series compared to the 5000-series. The 7000-Phoenix CPUs isn’t as bad, but considering these generations are very much about the iGPU performance, it’s a bit of a shame
Just AMD insane marketing department. During 6000s gen, they wanna only gave 12CUs to R9 SKUs. Even R7 6800U could only get 8CU igp. Then some laptop manufacturers aggressively protested it. Now we get full 12CU igp on 6800U. Also PHX2 is kinds of focusing on
That's because AMD swapped out the 8 Vega/VII CUs for 12 RDNA 2 CUs, along with dropping DDR4 in favor of DDR5. Then there's the fact that Rembrandt (Zen 3+) uses a mature N7 variant (N6), unlike Cezanne (initial Zen 3 APUs and R5 5500, along with possible R3 5100 and R7 5700, all taped out on an earlier variant).
4 vs 12 CUs... based on the BENCHMARKS the MOBILE usage would seem to suggest that there's little reason to use more than SIX CU's? A lot of games only got around 40% or so uplift with the 12 CU's vs 4 CU's. Having SIX CU's is 50% more than four so I'm not seeing much reason to go beyond six in general. Seems like the optimal balance there.
These benchmarks are why I hope Switch2/Deck2 will be much wider, even if they would have to sacrifice some clock, that way when you'll dock it, and give some juice there would be a noticeable difference
I’d be curious to know what the actual price difference is after factoring out all of the components both versions share. For instance, if all shared components cost $400 with labor to make, then we can cancel that $400 out leaving us with the cost associated with the difference between the devices. In this example, the ROG Z extreme would be $300 while the regular Z is $200. You can see how that would impact the price to performance ratio. Just a thought.
Very curious to see if the increased amount of memory (and speed) in the Ally X will solve a lot of the frametime issues we see in Baldur’s Gate on the current Ally.
Would appreciate a follow up with performance of the ROG Mobile 4090 proprietary eGPU, wondering if it’s a similar enough CPU when connected to it, as someone who is considering buying one already for use with an ROG X13 tablet
Honest question here. Did you change the amount of VRAM the GPU can use? I know at default it is at 4GB but new firmware lets you up this to 6GB. If you did not I highly recommend you try it. I find this to be a good sweet spot for many games on my Ally. Yes I know there is a 8GB option as well but I kept running into lack of normal memory errors on a few games.
I don't even consider any ally review accurate until the vram setting has been changed from the default. 4 gigs is unusable which is why we're seeing such low performance on the z1 extreme. I agree 6 gigs is the sweet spot but I have had no issues with 8.
You review as supplied - as with their prebuilt reviews, if the manufacturer doesn't turn on, say, XMP or VT extensions, then the average consumer won't either because they don't even know to look for it, and it's supplied *as the manufacturer intends it to be used*. if they felt 6gb of VRAM was the way it's meant to be used, that's how they'd configure it out of the factory. You and me know how to change such, but we're a small part of the market, smaller than most would care to admit.
@GamersNexus Great video as always with all your content! It seems that the Non Extreme Ally now sits at $400 at Best Buy. What do you think of the Non Extreme at this $400 price point. My son has an OG Steam Deck and my brother in law has an Extreme Ally. I am not a big hand held PC guy but I could see having even a low priced handheld for those situations where even my entry level Dell G3 isn't feasible to use. For exampke, when you are at a house for holiday get togethers where you cannot even find a flat surface to put a laptop on and the only thing you may have available is a recliner or couch cushion that is close to an electric outlet and even Wifi is spotty to non existent. I could see loading up an inexpensive ally with older games from my backlog and using a cheap non Extreme Ally as a way to play my PC games in those situations where I just can't use a PC.
How is thermal throttling represented in GPU busy figures? Does it just show as being busy for longer if clock speeds are lowered, or does it take the relative difference between clock speeds into account? Apologies if you have already covered this, I may not have been paying enough attention.
I usually just listen to these videos, but today I realized you don't actually have a co worker who is a Snowflake, but a catto overloard named thus, I feel silly now. I'm sorry Snowflake!
This comment made my day lol. Just picturing a dude literally named snowflake benchmarking hardware. (can totally see why though, Steve does such a good job with his unflinching dry delivery of jokes blended with the actual content/critique)
you guys are awesome, thanks for doing these reviews, helps alot with people's purchase decisions, my family always asks me for advice when buying stuff and this channel is a great place for quick info, i will never recommend the cheaper version of this thing as its not worth the loss in power, most people will use this thing in dock mode as its main target audience has shifted to be a cheaper alternative to a laptop and a switch, parents are buying these to save money rather then buy both switch and a laptop
Why is the Z1 only available in such limited devices? It seems to me like this would make for a well rounded tablet or ultralight laptop experience at an affordable cost.
It's just a custom version of the R5 7540U, though. You can't really find anything else that's using it because it hasn't been properly launched yet, though.
The only real differences between the Z1 and the mainline 7000 series APUs is that the Z1 has its AI accelerators disabled to shave off a tiny bit of power consumption. There's already multiple options from Aya Neo, GPD and the like running the 7840U and the 7640U (effectively, the Z1 Extreme and a slightly faster Z1), and more mainstream manufacturers are likely to start shipping devices using those chips soon.
I'm really puzzled by the Z1's graphics. The very similar Ryzen 7640U has 8 compute units: twice what the Z1 has. The Z1 has only 4CU with a powerful Zen4 6-core. 🤔 Given performance limits while running from battery, an 8CU configuration would be a purchase worth considering.
@@davidgunther8428 That's working off the assumption that they're using the same die. If they are, well, those yields are probably in fairly short supply.
In my experience there's something weird going on with Baldur's Gate 3's Vulkan implementation. There's weird hitching way too often and with ReBAR on the memory footprint just keeps going up (tried that spinning in place, no new assets loaded, footprint went up by 30GB at which point I quit the game, whereas on DX11 it reaches a point and actually decreases. Disabling ReBAR fixes the problem, except then you won't have it, and since DX11 works well in BG3... It's not like it's a hardware issue either, I'm running on a 5900X, RX 6800, 64GB DDR4-3200 and BG3 is installed on a fast PCIe 4 drive.
It sounds to me like the Ally was overpriced in the first place, then. The price difference between the Extreme and non-Extreme would have made more sense if they were priced even 100 bucks cheaper (600 for the Extreme, 500 for the non-Extreme). You'd be much closer to the Steam Deck in not only pricing, and the slightly higher pricetag of the Ally is more realistically representative of the performance bump you'd get with the Extreme, compared to how it is now (surely 700 isn't representative of how much better the Ally Extreme is to the decked-out Steam Deck, right?)
They also are obsessed with more resolution, wich hurts performance. FSR is does marvelous things, but lower you resolution to the Deck, make it OLED and things would be better. Some dumdums released a new higher dpi screen for the Deck to make it 1200p and still LCD for 99 bucks and the result is a clown fiesta, the performance goes to the floor in that resolution. They don't get that you have to adapt your expectations to your format of choose, why the fuck you want a 1080p screen if you can't drive it.
That's a big difference. I feel bad for any less informed consumers who end up with the cheaper version, and feel like this SKU is intended to take advantage of them.
So it looks like the cut-down one may be better suited to emulation and portable arcade experience, right? I'd love to see how well it runs something like PCSX2, Dolphin, or RPCS3.
It's about profit margins, using a cheap APU so to cut down expenses, but not inching much lower when pricing the device overall means you keep most of the profit still. Lets say Extreme ver makes you $100 per device, well the non-extreme version lets you make $130 more if the cheaper chip only costs you 30% less.
I ended up buying the z1 version and tbh it was way more affordable got it for 400 including a carry case and a tpu case. Ill be honest part of me wishes I bought the extreme version but it was about or over 200 more at the time Overall I really enjoy it. Ive been playing alot of State Of Decay 2 on it and maybe some Dead Space 2 mixed in
All that really proves is the APU is not the main determining factor in the cost of the unit, it's just a fraction of the cost Say the base part costs the $100 and then $30 for the smaller APU and $50 for the larger APU ...... Then the cost difference between the two finished units ( $150 vs $130) is 15% even though the performance differences between the APUs is much larger.
As always great review! I hope most people understand that paying a 100 bucks less is almost never smart.. just safe up a little longer.. and get a way better device for a 100 bucks more.
Parts bin device. More than likely AMD made an offer to ASUS to get them to buy x number of these reject dies in exchange for exclusive access to the extreme chip.
I don't really get how lower spec parts have lower boosts nowadays. It used to be that more cores meant lower frequency. Are these parts artificially downclocked so that higher / more expensive parts not only have more cores but also higher frequencies? Btw, I held the Ally in my hands multiple times and every time it's plastic shell felt cheap compared to the GPD Win 4. I would even say that it felt closer to a 3D printed shell.
Is your Z1 non X using the smaller die, aka PHX2 die? AMD seems find some advantage of PHX2 die's 7540U, and is renaming R5 7540U with PHX2 die to R5 7545U. While the older larger PHX1 die keep 7540U SKU name.
I think 4CU RDNA graphics could be reasonable inside a small, light, passively cooled case with the sole purpose of playing the majority of stuff in the GoG library. Basically everything up and until roughly the Windows 7 era? Would also be interesting to see what classics work fine 60fps on battery/power.
there might be an interesting use case in super light workloads like handheld console emulation for the cut down chip. I am reasonably sure the battery life gain will be less than desired with the display choice, and an android device being suitable for this use case, but at least you get some more feature diversity and windows on the ally.
The catch there is that the Steam Deck has far fewer disadvantages in ultra light workloads and all the extra tuning Valve did means it runs surprisingly efficiently, to the point that it keeps up with the 6800U at 9W TDP. Windows becomes much less of an advantage if you're limiting yourself to lower power applications because a lot of that is going to be emulators - which are more likely to directly support Linux, or indie games which are going to use more off the shelf engines that should play nice with Proton.
tbh why does AMD still collabing with asus after with the controversies with asus x amd stuff, like the ally vs review production, asus not guaranteeing beta bios that lead to exploding cpu, laptop bsod after bios update, etc that asus is doing that hummiliates AMD at this point
Check out our Lenovo Legion Go review! th-cam.com/video/I37mxlDqLrk/w-d-xo.html
Watch our ROG Ally Z1 Extreme review! Includes thermals, acoustics, power, and comparisons against Steam Deck & AYA Neo parts: th-cam.com/video/Na1y7DyDe2w/w-d-xo.html
Remember to grab something on the store to support us & the shelter Cat Angels at the same time, active for a couple more weeks: store.gamersnexus.net/
Starfield just got a big performance update for Intel Arc
I think the GPU Busy chart needs to show finer resolution so we can see the difference between frametime vs gpubusy, like is the gap 3ms or 12ms. just a thought
Would be really awesome if you guys would look into overclocking and/or undervolting these devices! And see what kind of impact those have on battery/noise/performance. Maybe even repaste it with liquid metal or something to see how far you can get!
Zen4c
Hey, I'm curious about what happens to GPU performance when you disable CPU boost on the ally, Im assuming it would allow for lower temps and more power to go to the GPU, maybe keeping temps lower and clocks higher on the GPU?
I think the ROG Ally is a better choice over the ROG Ally. Though I can see people choosing the ROG Ally instead.
Fair enough, however, keep in mind that the ROG Ally is faster than the ROG Ally. Thus making the ROG Ally a better buy compared to the ROG Ally.
@@richarddunn77so what you're saying is buy the ROG Ally
Lol I'm sticking to the steam deck thank you very much screw the ally
@@DarkTechno.2 I hear the ROG Acquaintance is supposed to be quite solid as well.
@@billyhatcher643but which Steam Deck? I personally chose to buy the Steam Deck, because the price difference between the Steam Deck and Steam Deck didn’t make much sense, even if the upsell from the Steam Deck to the Steam Deck wasn’t as bad as the upsell from the Steam Deck to the Steam Deck. Really happy I chose that Steam Deck.
Only reasoning i can think of is preying on people who dont know the difference and think its just the same but cheaper.
That's what I'm thinking unless they thought it could compete better with the steam deck? But that'd be stupid, no one is buying a 512 steam deck unless they are a valve fanboy
Exactly. ASUS is preying on consumers possible lack of knowledge of PC hardware. If I were new to the gaming scene and wanting a handheld device I’d probably pick the cheaper one and be screwed without even knowing it. Scummy and deceptive. Lovely. Not that I’d ever buy a ASUS handheld that’s heavily locked into the tumor that is armory crate.
I mean, the Steamdeck is the same throughout it's range, with the SSD being the only difference. I can't blame the costumer, its all on Asus.
@@Neatrior Uhm actually people like the armoury crate version for ally only enough to ask for it to be ported to laptops. Second the average consumer that buys an before the Z1 released is ignorant already no diff if asus swindled them or not half of them will return because it doesn’t run all their games on 1080p 120fps
No one would think it's the same but cheaper. I bought the non-extreme because most of my games aren't demanding. That's why this version exists. For those who do run demanding games you're paying an extra $200 and still having poor performance, ie sub 60 fps.
To be honest, a quick Steamdeck vs non extreme Ally would've been good, considering they are closer in price.
It's just % scaling. You look at the % gap between the Extreme and Non-Extreme, the % gap between the Extreme and the Steam Deck (already published), and that answers the question.
Um not sure this can work as early in The vid it says the testing is not directly comparable. May i ask how this approach differs (not trying to be snippy just bad at wording my thoughts)
@@WineLad relative scaling with percentages in this way would work. There would be very little impact. It's just absolute numbers that can't compare directly.
@@GamersNexus There's enough PC gaming portables out on the market. Maybe you could consider a comparison showdown between them all in a new video? Would be easier to visualize in a direct comparison.
@@GamersNexusThe Steam Deck is a popular Handheld PC and it will help consumers to use it as a benchmark. If a device is 125% faster but 200% more expensive than the Deck then that's something to look for. While one could compare the older video the bottom line is that it's not Apple to Oranges because there's been software updates between back then and today.
300% the GPU performance on paper. 20% in the real world. I wouldnt call that huge. And today the Z1 extreme is 150% the price but only gives you 120% the performance.
I was honestly expecting a bigger gap in performance based off the specs. But unfortunately if you're playing 3D games on this thing, that extra ~20% or so of performance can easily mean the difference between a game being fine, or flat-out unplayable. I can kinda see it being fine if you're mainly planning to play more lightweight/2D games on it though, which is probably the only case where you'll be able to take advantage of its upgraded screen anyways.
It was over 50% performance boost between the Extreme and regular versions. Well worth the $100.
@@IceManHG117Yeah but that's only for when it's plugged into a wall, the difference on battery is much smaller. Which, idk, maybe that's how some people like to use these devices? And it's certainly nice to have. But the whole reason I bought a steam deck was to be able to play it away from a wall outlet, so battery performance is much more important to me personally.
@@IceManHG117wrong. Only the steam deck is worth it at its price point and form factor.
Nice try though.
@@notyourbusiness4169not for everyone, I love my ROG Ally and using it for Moonlight/Sunshine is incredible.
even with the z1 non extreme, that's $200 more than the cheapest steam deck which pairs fine with sd cards for storage. you're not going to be able to take advantage of the high refresh rate display in most recent games with the non extreme cpu. however, as a way for busy parents to game around the house, say, older backlogged games, the z1 makes sense if you're a frame rate snob and need 120fps. on handhelds, with controllers, i don't think it really matters as much to go over 60.
I do own both the steam deck and the z1x ally, generally the deck is the backlog killer, the ally z1x is for games the deck can't hit stable framerates in, dragon engine yakuza games mainly lately.
I would say anyone who wants one of these should get the cheapest deck when valve does sales for $320. mine is the 256gb model, but running games off sd works just fine.
however the ally makes a lot more sense for me compared to most other people because i also already have the 16gb rtx 3080 xg mobile dock that it's compatible with. performance on it isn't great compared to other laptops and tablets that work with the xg mobile egpu. I think might be a bandwidth or pcie lane issue.
I've had the ROG Ally Z1E for about a month, or a little over. I've been greatly enjoying it and it was easily one of the best gaming purchases I've made. Those debating the Laptop vs Ally Z1E need to remember that you do not need a mouse for the Ally Z1E to be competent at gaming (outside of my one more turn in CIV6). Honestly the laptop essentially becomes tethered to an outlet in most cases with the higher wattage parts they have as well, and only has the form factor and mobility benefit over a desktop in that case itself. The Ally can be run off my Anker 737 with 12400 MAH for quite a while as well so I'm really mobile. Not tethered to my RAM 1500's power inverter mobile, real mobile with an Anker battery mobile.
I have great desktop and a Zephyrus M14 with an i7 1x700 something or other and a 2060. Since getting the Ally, I have clocked more time on it, since purchase, versus both the Zephyrus and my desktop combined (Desktop with its 12700k and 3090). I have options, and generally for gaming I'll pick up the Ally. I'm just tired of sitting at a desk all day for work and sometimes want to sit in bed or on the couch playing WoW with the Console Addon, or BG3 or other games. The screen is great, I even run it at 900p with FSR for most games.
In comparison to the Steam Deck. I can play games that range from Battlenet, Uplay, Windows Store, GOG, etc. I'm not locked into anything and the extra horsepower of the Ally with the Z1E is great. I'm not certain if that is something the SD can do, but it was very important to me as someone that mainly plays Battlenet, Microsoft (Forza's) and Uplay games. I enjoy being able to play some Microsoft Store games on the PC/Ally, then swapping over to the XBOX Series X as well. The Ally just compliments my game launchers and environment with my desktop, XBOX, and it.
I did swap the SSD for a Corsair MP600 Mini and added a heatsink to that, but otherwise, it has absolutely been wonderful. 512 is a little small, but it's luckily replaceable easily. The other parts are pretty open to repair as well from what I've seen.
Now, I'll list my 3 issues with the Ally overall. 2 of which don't affect me (items 2 and 3) but do for others and I work as management in IT Support, so they bug me because they bug others.
1. 16GB of RAM. This is my personal annoyance. It needed to be 32, especially with sharing with the GPU. Some people are even removing the 16, and soldering/flowing 32gb worth of modules onto the board. Just do it Asus.
2. The SD Card issues. I'll never use the Micro SD as I have many external NVME Drives with games ready for transer, but it does affect others and I think Asus needs to own up to that.
3. The External GPU connector (XG or something...) for the Asus proprietary GPUs....... Doesn't affect me as if I sit down to a dock, why not just sit down at my desktop. However, this is the junk that vendors need to stop. Just use oCuLink, they literally look the same and are most likely the same. ASUS NO ONE WANTS TO PAY YOUR FAKE "4090" (don't tell them it's mobile) GPU PRICE. Asus needs to stop attempting to steal money this way. Even Alienware had their external GPU dock open to you adding your own GPU to it. If Asus would give people a regular dock, instead of this junk, the world would be a better place because it'd mean that most vendors don't pull this crap any longer.
The 3 cons you discribe at the end of your post are the only three reasons i didn't buy the ally, 16go is too little in win 11, sd card destroyer is a major building mistake and if the egpu was oculink compatible this ally would have been a huge success
I'd really like to see lower resolution (720p or maybe 900p) benchmarks next time. If someone buys these devices aiming for a 40+ fps experience and picks lower resolutions, the GPU busy stats might look a bit more interesting once the CPU gets stressed more.
The Zen 4 cores in these units are amazingly powerful though and 40fps wouldn't even make them sweat in most games. My 7840U handheld legitimately outperforms my old laptop with a 1080 max Q because the latter gets crazy CPU bottlenecks in most games these days.
I had to return my rog ally extreme because the sd card reader burned up and destroyed my sd card with it. I don't think they have even fixed this issue yet. It's a gamble buying this product.
It's insane that they decided to put the reader directly over the cooling vent that can blast air upwards of 90C, when the max temps a microSD can take is 85C. The only fix is a hardware redesign.
@@ColorblindMonk Love my Ally. Don't use sd cards so it's a null point for me! The handheld plays tarkov GREAT at lunchtime!
@@ColorblindMonkHeat is not the cause of this defect, it can happen even at lower temperatures. Nobody knows the cause, not even Asus, but I suspect it might be caused by bad solder quality.
@@offspringfan89 I heard this before too, but what would cause the death of the sd card too? Would the bad solder short the card possibly?
@@Generic_TH-cam_Username_ and play with PIXELATED graphic? it's gonna make me puke :)))
I worry that the future of mini PCs and handhelds are going to reveal manufacturers cutting costs and corners in memory/cache bandwidth. Because it doesn't read easily on a sheet and doesn't hurt average fps.
But these devices will suffer stuttering and other more obtuse issues reviewers won't pick up on.
I would rather a device drop the overall performance in CPU / GPU, and invest in more stable performance in bandwidth. Yes I'd like to hit 60 fps, but if I can't I'd rather have a locked framerate.
Up in 144Hz territory I don't mind 10 or 20 fps swings. But down in the 40's - 30's, I do mind 5 fps, or a frame lasting 50% longer.
It might be complicated to use gddr6 as system memory, but we've seen it used in the xbox series consoles, which are basically capped windows pcs, if they make a steam deck 2 with gddr memory instead of lpddr we could see massive performance increases, it may be more of a power consumption thing though
As usually an insanely detailed review, GN crushes it again. I was surprised though to not see a bigger delta. For $100? For most buyers its easy, but for some people with a strict budget its harder. I am blown away at the Ally I got open box for $490 at BBY. Loved my SteamDeck but I like Windows ironicially and the fact that its faster than my Ryzen 3700x is absolutely bonkers.
Got my Rog non extreme for $254 open box mint from Best Buy. Best purchase I’ve ever made.
Bro felt that way after my 200 dollar steam deck and also got an rog for 200 just cause Mann these things are cool
Battery life should be indicated in the charts in seconds only or minutes + seconds only. Fractional hours is confusing since 0.1 hours is 6 minutes. Not easy to visualize the difference in minutes for 1.57 and 1.77 hours, for example. Other alternative is to hilight the difference as a percentage.
1.57x60....
True
Another quality review, thank you all for what you do
This is a move that asus seems to have taken right from the GPU market playbook. They take a product and put it right next to something in a price class to make the higher priced one look like a better value. AMD just did this with 7700xt and 7800xt.
Either that or AMD screwed a whole batch of CPU production and they sold the faulty CPUs as "new" ones with less performance. That wouldn't be surprising, tbh...
@@fridaycaliforniaa236 yep!
Athlon or what was it the 3 core CPUs that they used to sell for less than the quad core option thaat was popular back when.
I honestly feel it needs to be 100 more cheaper this wont sell as well imho and even then saying that the steam deck is still far better value and tbh is implemented better software wise.
The SteamOS is something most people don't account in these performance scenarios. I tried windows on the Deck recently and it's ok with BigPicture but it doesn't feel as good as the SteamOS. In my experience, I wouldn't go to another device unless they manage to do what Steam did, regular W11 works quite well as a tablet OS but not as a handheld one.
The target market appears to be grandmas who are buying Timmy a gaming device for Christmas for getting all As and don't know the difference.
Sorry but steam for me its not acceptable because not supporting anything outside steam.I use gog, epic, ms store.Asus is the way to go for me.Plus i have tons of old games too
This is a nice reality check ahead of the Lenovo Legion Go release, which is competing against the Extreme Z1 SKU of the ROG Ally.
Looking forward to that review later this month. 😊👍🏾
I bought the non extreme version for $400, it is perfect for my 2D games and JRPG's. Even Yakuza 0 runs well at 1080p around 60fps with low to medium power settings!
For the price, I couldn’t imagine going with either version. Might as well go with something cheaper if you’re just playing 2D games, or might as well go with something more powerful if you’re trying to get above 60 fps on low settings, like a 13-15 inch gaming notebook.
Steam Deck second hand for 200 is a good little gameboy emulator even some xbox and ps2 games. Ive been playing SSX on Tour on my steam deck alongside sly cooper and it's been awesome.
a notebook is not a handheld...
Yeah, for small 2D games you could rather buy a Switch for half the price. And for a better performance? Wait 3-6 years for the next, or better, the generation after the next generation. :D
@@jesusbarrera6916 Neither is a handheld that's constantly being docked/charging.
Nah people just want windows there’s a reason all thes x86 companies are still selling so well despite high prices and competition it’s because a lot people rather these smaller devices than the brick.
It does make the Steam Deck look a lot more honest, where you can buy the "low end" model and upgrade the storage with a cheap SSD.
Problem with the Steam Deck is the worse display and SteamOS which doesn't support all PC games. The Ally has Win 11 pre installed, that alone is around 100 Eurodollars if you buy a real license from MS.^^
@@masterluckyluke Yep, and once you factor in the fact that ally comes with 512 GB of space, the pricing ends up very close. Sure, you could buy yourself 1TB storage and upgrade it yourself and save money, but the average consumer probably will not bother.
Having said that, I do hope that both devices end up succeeding as that might motivate AMD to develop and release better and more efficient chips.
@@masterluckyluke On the other hand, 800p is plenty of resolution on a 7" display, and if SteamOS runs the games you want it's a vastly smoother experience to actually USE a Steam Deck.
@@masterluckylukef windows
@@masterluckyluke >buying windows in 2023
i hate antichrist
The extreme version is probably memory bandwidth bound. The CPUs are actually very fast. It needs gddr or more memory channels, but these apus sadly don’t support that, so this is what we get.
If it was possible for the ally to get gddr6 memory it'd run games better than a series s
Damn, I was hoping you were doing a Legion Go review when you mentioned an upcoming handheld review in your BG3 video.
I imagine they will review that one. It's the other ones that are questionable for review.
BB had open box non-extreme models on sale for $350. Picked one up, and it seems perfectly fine. For that price, it's a no-brainer.
Have you been able to play Baldurs Gate, or Games of that quality?
Are you shooters good to play on the non-extreme version?
@@omart3 Haven't tried BG3. Probably wouldn't get great performance unless you dropped the resolution way down.
If you want to play AAA games natively, the extreme version is the way to go. I mainly bought it to stream from my desktop at home so I can play on the couch while watching TV, along with playing less demanding games on the road without having to haul around my huge gaming laptop.
@zekemajors23 call of duty runs amazing on the non extreme version I get about 90 fps for cold War low settings and 100 fps on warzone
while i admit, i may be biased being a steam deck owner, i just think the deck is a lot better, especially when it comes to battery life/performance at lower wattage
Deck is also better software wise, there's little to none bloatware and also doesn't run on Windows
So much better. I only use the Deck for emulation and low-powered games really, but it does them so flipping well. I can play TotK for 3 hours on battery, and something like Hollow Knight for 5
I switched from SD to AN2 because of the screen. Otherwise the SD is better, yes
And asus lmao.
The Ally still just feels like hastily slapped together attempt to cash in on the SDs success.
Picked it up open box for $330 from best buy. Ima use it for emulation and moonlight.
How is your experience with this machine? Seeing the same price and contemplating pros and cons versus cheapest steam deck.
@@Rvoyles97got the extreme some months ago and it’s great, definitely recommend it
Think it can run WoW? Giving that wow is older and all?
But what about when you look at the z1 extreme at full price vs the now heavily discounted z1 down to 399 at places like Best Buy? Would you say it’s more justifiable then?
Was wondering about ayn and asus but ended up with steam deck.
Linux experience on a handheld is amazing and thought that it will run much worse.
Amazing device and arch linux makes it even better
I can't weit till you preview the Lenovo Legion go! The handheld market is very interesting right now.
Please Review the Kryo Sheets you are promoting!! there is like zero reviews out there on it! is it WORTH dealing with thermal paste anymore? Did Thermal Grizzly just destroy they whole market?!
Now that the non Extreme Ally is available at Best Buy for $399.99, would you say it is worth the price tag to performance now? Especially vs the steam deck
I would say yes, if you are familiar with windows and play outside of Steam as well. I have the extreme version and I use it for university classes too taking notes with BT mouse and keyboard. If are able to find open box excellent, the price is better and is close to brand new. I recommend trying it before making a decision during the return window and see if it works for you.
Steam deck is faster at same watt
Yes, also curious about this with the updated price point.
Only thing weird is the price, for emulation only is still good enough but like Asus it’s 150-200 over priced
I think the steam deck kinda beats both the models just because of the touch pads. Can't imagine trying to play WoW classic hardcore using analogue sticks for mouse control
And the custom controls. And having 4 buttons on the back. And being able to replace the joystick my dumbass broke for $20. Better battery life. More ergonomic. Joysticks in the correct ergonomic position. And thats just off the top of my head.
The Steam Deck became popular because of the same reasons the og iphone became popular. It wasn't the first of it's kind, it wasn't the only of it's kind, but it was the one that did everything right.
It could have been interesting if the non extreme had 8 CUs instead of 4.
It’s $399 at Best Buy as of Nov. 29
The shit one is.
While both models are technically faster than the Steam Deck, the Deck is at a much lower initial price point plus the better handheld experience of the Deck is also another thing to consider.
Agreed. I don’t see a reasonable market for either model: $600-$700 is expensive enough to start encroaching on budget gaming laptops, which would perform better and come with the added versatility of a PC while not being much larger. The Steam Deck is significantly cheaper (especially on sale like it was twice this year) and is good enough for lightweight/2D games.
The 1% and 0.1% lows also seem pretty terrible compared to what I have experienced on the Steam Deck
also the ability to mod in an occulink to the deck makes its potential even better
Yall drunk… steamdeck is great but saying the experience is better is completely disingenuous. I install games on my ally… bam and they work. No proton, no tweaking, plus it has VRR. Shits great.
It is really quite hard to justify that price bump for a much less consistent looking performance AND more importantly worse controller - you may not like to use the trackpads, gyro, heap of rear buttons in game but it all adds up to making it much more versatile and in the case of the trackpads coupled with the Steam onscreen keyboard turns a console into something that really is still useable as a real PC.
Also@@nuggetpiece You can install Windows on the Deck if you like, but as Valve has put in so much work making it so seamless to use proton it really is 'bam and they work' almost as often as if it was running windows. As its not like Windoze, the driver updates and stuff like EAC etc never ever goes wrong there either. In fact since I stopped using Windows at all my computer has been much less frustrating to game and use - though as some game don't play nice proton (mostly for anti-cheat reasons) if one of those is the only game for you at least for now Linux isn't your does everything you need solution.
I cant be the only person getting one of these to play older PC games at 120fps 1080p. I cant for the life of me imagine why people would want to play AAA games at potato quality settings on these things. Old PC games cost a few dollars. Hell theres an entire WORLD of abandonware out there if you want to get into the nitty gritty.
You’ll survive, just breathe through it. What others do can’t hurt you, remember that.
@@rmwilliams8193 Read your comment back to yourself. Profit.
I think a major task that people buy these handhelds for is emulation. It may be difficult with Nintendo's evil and the variability emulator updates cause, but it might be interesting to see key/performance limited emulated titles tested.
I could see a major deciding factor being if someone can play a PS2 or Gamecube title at full speed native (to screen) resolution on a device vs a device that would need lower resolution or wouldn't run full speed.
The consensus among the retrogaming community is the Deck is the ultimate portable emulation machine up to PS2/GC/WiiU/Switch without problems and some madlads are testing the waters with PS3. You don't need to go to an Ally if you just want to emulate consoles.
@@fordesponjaally can emulate Xbox 360 and ps 3, also steam deck emulates smaller amounts of ps 2 games in full speed than rog ally
The Z1 should have been $550 making it a more direct competitor to the steam deck. Also in turn, justify the price cut even more.
I think it's 600-700 because of windows 11 running, where the steam deck is its custom steam OS
I bought an open box Z1E for 520$ excellent condition.
i just got one, and most demanding games i am going to play them at 900p or 720p 30fps in silent mode, i dont need more for a device like this, kinda cool
What is interesting and also doesn't make sense to me with the non Extreme, is that the current and last previous AMD 6 core APUs have 6 CUs. So did ASUS just take the badly binned versions or did they request them to be disabled?
Previous 6-core/6cu APUs were actually physically 8-core/12cu APUs but with some cores and CUs disabled or dead.
The Z1 is not like that. It is based on Phoenix 2 silicon, which only physically has 2 Zen4 cores, 4 Zen4c cores, and 4 CU.
IIRC the 7440u (2 Zen4, 2 Zen4c, 4 CU) and 7540u (2 Zen4, 4 Zen4c, 4 CU) also are based on Phoenix 2, although the 7540u is rumored to have dual sourcing (some may be cut down versions of regular Phoenix, which is what's used in the Z1 Extreme and 7840u/7640u).
Honestly this would be appealing if the lower power one had longer battery life.
Keeping these CPUs from boosting all the time seems to free up some compute on the GPU side and keeps the part cooler, without a significant impact to CPU bound performance (because it can't sustain boost all the time anyway).
I have the extreme version, but i got the lower end one for my brother for $300 brand new, so that was a pretty solid deal, in my opinion.
Is it worth it now? The base model now costs $399 while the extreme version still costs the same. Which one is better bang for you buck in this case?
Did you figure it out? I'm now trying to find that same answer
@@Erick-gx8qu I bought both and can say I'm more satisfied with the non extreme version because of battery life and because i don't see a major difference in fps for the games I play
@@MojiCorp Thank you. Have you come across and issues ?
@Erick-gx8qu I came across only one issue. My micro sd card stopped working on my extreme version of the rog ally I'm not sure why. I did notice it gets really hot so maybe I fried the micro sd card?
@Erick-gx8qu also both devices are great. It's way better than my steam deck oled. I highly recommend you install emudeck once you get one and update everything including the bios.
Just got the z1 for $300 due to an pricing error on Best Buy. Pretty damn good value at that price. Can't argue that at a cheaper price than a switch oled.
It's insane that a switch oled with ancient underpowered components still sells for so much
When they're gonna put a 14900K in the system? I maybe interested in getting one.
I always felt it was weird how large the iGPU gap was between the Ryzen 5 and Ryzen 7s for the 6000-series compared to the 5000-series. The 7000-Phoenix CPUs isn’t as bad, but considering these generations are very much about the iGPU performance, it’s a bit of a shame
Just AMD insane marketing department. During 6000s gen, they wanna only gave 12CUs to R9 SKUs. Even R7 6800U could only get 8CU igp. Then some laptop manufacturers aggressively protested it. Now we get full 12CU igp on 6800U. Also PHX2 is kinds of focusing on
That's because AMD swapped out the 8 Vega/VII CUs for 12 RDNA 2 CUs, along with dropping DDR4 in favor of DDR5. Then there's the fact that Rembrandt (Zen 3+) uses a mature N7 variant (N6), unlike Cezanne (initial Zen 3 APUs and R5 5500, along with possible R3 5100 and R7 5700, all taped out on an earlier variant).
Thanks ROG Ally, back to you ROG Ally
4 vs 12 CUs... based on the BENCHMARKS the MOBILE usage would seem to suggest that there's little reason to use more than SIX CU's?
A lot of games only got around 40% or so uplift with the 12 CU's vs 4 CU's. Having SIX CU's is 50% more than four so I'm not seeing much reason to go beyond six in general. Seems like the optimal balance there.
10/10 product naming
"Gentlemen, this is the M12 LRV"
These benchmarks are why I hope Switch2/Deck2 will be much wider, even if they would have to sacrifice some clock, that way when you'll dock it, and give some juice there would be a noticeable difference
The non-extreme version now is 399.99 at Best Buy
IMHO they cut the graphics down too much. The reduction in Graphics performance should have been commensurate with the reduction in CPU performance.
Right now the Z1 is $399 at Best Buy.
Can you play Baldurs Gate 3 on it? Is it worth it?
I’d be curious to know what the actual price difference is after factoring out all of the components both versions share. For instance, if all shared components cost $400 with labor to make, then we can cancel that $400 out leaving us with the cost associated with the difference between the devices. In this example, the ROG Z extreme would be $300 while the regular Z is $200. You can see how that would impact the price to performance ratio. Just a thought.
Very curious to see if the increased amount of memory (and speed) in the Ally X will solve a lot of the frametime issues we see in Baldur’s Gate on the current Ally.
Now I'm curious if AMD STAPM can be easily bypassed, disabled, or extended.
Would appreciate a follow up with performance of the ROG Mobile 4090 proprietary eGPU, wondering if it’s a similar enough CPU when connected to it, as someone who is considering buying one already for use with an ROG X13 tablet
Best buy has pallets of returned open box allys for less than $600. Just get one of those!
Wait 6 months and buy one used for $300-$400
I love the extreme. It''s soo cheap rn if you buy a used one.
Honest question here. Did you change the amount of VRAM the GPU can use? I know at default it is at 4GB but new firmware lets you up this to 6GB. If you did not I highly recommend you try it. I find this to be a good sweet spot for many games on my Ally. Yes I know there is a 8GB option as well but I kept running into lack of normal memory errors on a few games.
I don't even consider any ally review accurate until the vram setting has been changed from the default. 4 gigs is unusable which is why we're seeing such low performance on the z1 extreme. I agree 6 gigs is the sweet spot but I have had no issues with 8.
You review as supplied - as with their prebuilt reviews, if the manufacturer doesn't turn on, say, XMP or VT extensions, then the average consumer won't either because they don't even know to look for it, and it's supplied *as the manufacturer intends it to be used*. if they felt 6gb of VRAM was the way it's meant to be used, that's how they'd configure it out of the factory.
You and me know how to change such, but we're a small part of the market, smaller than most would care to admit.
4 GB is permanently allocated buffer, GPU can use shared memory on top of that
@GamersNexus Great video as always with all your content! It seems that the Non Extreme Ally now sits at $400 at Best Buy. What do you think of the Non Extreme at this $400 price point. My son has an OG Steam Deck and my brother in law has an Extreme Ally. I am not a big hand held PC guy but I could see having even a low priced handheld for those situations where even my entry level Dell G3 isn't feasible to use. For exampke, when you are at a house for holiday get togethers where you cannot even find a flat surface to put a laptop on and the only thing you may have available is a recliner or couch cushion that is close to an electric outlet and even Wifi is spotty to non existent. I could see loading up an inexpensive ally with older games from my backlog and using a cheap non Extreme Ally as a way to play my PC games in those situations where I just can't use a PC.
How is thermal throttling represented in GPU busy figures? Does it just show as being busy for longer if clock speeds are lowered, or does it take the relative difference between clock speeds into account?
Apologies if you have already covered this, I may not have been paying enough attention.
I usually just listen to these videos, but today I realized you don't actually have a co worker who is a Snowflake, but a catto overloard named thus, I feel silly now. I'm sorry Snowflake!
This comment made my day lol. Just picturing a dude literally named snowflake benchmarking hardware. (can totally see why though, Steve does such a good job with his unflinching dry delivery of jokes blended with the actual content/critique)
How about for as low as 299 open box at best buy now?
you guys are awesome, thanks for doing these reviews, helps alot with people's purchase decisions, my family always asks me for advice when buying stuff and this channel is a great place for quick info, i will never recommend the cheaper version of this thing as its not worth the loss in power, most people will use this thing in dock mode as its main target audience has shifted to be a cheaper alternative to a laptop and a switch, parents are buying these to save money rather then buy both switch and a laptop
Why is the Z1 only available in such limited devices? It seems to me like this would make for a well rounded tablet or ultralight laptop experience at an affordable cost.
It's just a custom version of the R5 7540U, though. You can't really find anything else that's using it because it hasn't been properly launched yet, though.
The only real differences between the Z1 and the mainline 7000 series APUs is that the Z1 has its AI accelerators disabled to shave off a tiny bit of power consumption. There's already multiple options from Aya Neo, GPD and the like running the 7840U and the 7640U (effectively, the Z1 Extreme and a slightly faster Z1), and more mainstream manufacturers are likely to start shipping devices using those chips soon.
I'm really puzzled by the Z1's graphics. The very similar Ryzen 7640U has 8 compute units: twice what the Z1 has. The Z1 has only 4CU with a powerful Zen4 6-core. 🤔 Given performance limits while running from battery, an 8CU configuration would be a purchase worth considering.
Apparently, the Z1 isn't using the same silicon as the Z1 Extreme.
@@sonicboy678 they're the same silicon, but different parts are non- functional on the Z1 vs Z1 extreme.
@@davidgunther8428 That's working off the assumption that they're using the same die. If they are, well, those yields are probably in fairly short supply.
In my experience there's something weird going on with Baldur's Gate 3's Vulkan implementation. There's weird hitching way too often and with ReBAR on the memory footprint just keeps going up (tried that spinning in place, no new assets loaded, footprint went up by 30GB at which point I quit the game, whereas on DX11 it reaches a point and actually decreases. Disabling ReBAR fixes the problem, except then you won't have it, and since DX11 works well in BG3... It's not like it's a hardware issue either, I'm running on a 5900X, RX 6800, 64GB DDR4-3200 and BG3 is installed on a fast PCIe 4 drive.
When memory goes up like that, like it did with Hogwarts, you need a memory cleaner.
I'm amazed weve gotten to a point where we can put a gaming pc into a hand held device
It sounds to me like the Ally was overpriced in the first place, then. The price difference between the Extreme and non-Extreme would have made more sense if they were priced even 100 bucks cheaper (600 for the Extreme, 500 for the non-Extreme). You'd be much closer to the Steam Deck in not only pricing, and the slightly higher pricetag of the Ally is more realistically representative of the performance bump you'd get with the Extreme, compared to how it is now (surely 700 isn't representative of how much better the Ally Extreme is to the decked-out Steam Deck, right?)
They also are obsessed with more resolution, wich hurts performance. FSR is does marvelous things, but lower you resolution to the Deck, make it OLED and things would be better. Some dumdums released a new higher dpi screen for the Deck to make it 1200p and still LCD for 99 bucks and the result is a clown fiesta, the performance goes to the floor in that resolution. They don't get that you have to adapt your expectations to your format of choose, why the fuck you want a 1080p screen if you can't drive it.
Honestly the non-extreme should've been 200 dollars less, also should've been different looking, like perhaps the chassis being black?
That's a big difference. I feel bad for any less informed consumers who end up with the cheaper version, and feel like this SKU is intended to take advantage of them.
So it looks like the cut-down one may be better suited to emulation and portable arcade experience, right? I'd love to see how well it runs something like PCSX2, Dolphin, or RPCS3.
Nah it is for absolutely going down toe-to-toe with the iPhone 15 Pro series
Bg3 runs great on my ally z1 extreme. Probably needs to turn off cpu boost.
It's about profit margins, using a cheap APU so to cut down expenses, but not inching much lower when pricing the device overall means you keep most of the profit still.
Lets say Extreme ver makes you $100 per device, well the non-extreme version lets you make $130 more if the cheaper chip only costs you 30% less.
1:30 from that alone...that extra $100 is totally worth what you get!
I ended up buying the z1 version and tbh it was way more affordable got it for 400 including a carry case and a tpu case. Ill be honest part of me wishes I bought the extreme version but it was about or over 200 more at the time
Overall I really enjoy it. Ive been playing alot of State Of Decay 2 on it and maybe some Dead Space 2 mixed in
Thank you for really informative video about comraring this game consoles!
Thanks Steve!
Excellent info! Great channel!
All that really proves is the APU is not the main determining factor in the cost of the unit, it's just a fraction of the cost
Say the base part costs the $100 and then $30 for the smaller APU and $50 for the larger APU ...... Then the cost difference between the two finished units ( $150 vs $130) is 15% even though the performance differences between the APUs is much larger.
Its only $400 now on Best Buy
12 CUs vs only 4 CUs separated by a $100 gap, LOL
Could you guys re review the steam deck. The software is night and day from when you reviewed it
You need to run games at 720p for aaa games only use 1080p for older games or indie games its doesn’t look bad on a small screen
As always great review! I hope most people understand that paying a 100 bucks less is almost never smart.. just safe up a little longer.. and get a way better device for a 100 bucks more.
i agree comparing asus power restrictions to any working ones will show different results, so it never will be apples to apples
Well now the rog ally z1 is $400 at best but while z1 extreme is $700, that’s $300 difference…
Parts bin device. More than likely AMD made an offer to ASUS to get them to buy x number of these reject dies in exchange for exclusive access to the extreme chip.
I don't really get how lower spec parts have lower boosts nowadays. It used to be that more cores meant lower frequency. Are these parts artificially downclocked so that higher / more expensive parts not only have more cores but also higher frequencies?
Btw, I held the Ally in my hands multiple times and every time it's plastic shell felt cheap compared to the GPD Win 4. I would even say that it felt closer to a 3D printed shell.
Question: Will you guys review Legion Go?
Welp seems there will be plenty of pissed off Best Buys and Consumers who bought the RoG Ally day one 🤦♂️
IMO the non-Extreme version of the Ally doesn't make much sense given that the Steam Deck exists.
Love you Steve... Thanks for always making these awesome videos.. 😌💛
Gay
Is your Z1 non X using the smaller die, aka PHX2 die?
AMD seems find some advantage of PHX2 die's 7540U, and is renaming R5 7540U with PHX2 die to R5 7545U. While the older larger PHX1 die keep 7540U SKU name.
Product deserves to be recalled over the SD card issue.
I think 4CU RDNA graphics could be reasonable inside a small, light, passively cooled case with the sole purpose of playing the majority of stuff in the GoG library. Basically everything up and until roughly the Windows 7 era? Would also be interesting to see what classics work fine 60fps on battery/power.
there might be an interesting use case in super light workloads like handheld console emulation for the cut down chip. I am reasonably sure the battery life gain will be less than desired with the display choice, and an android device being suitable for this use case, but at least you get some more feature diversity and windows on the ally.
The catch there is that the Steam Deck has far fewer disadvantages in ultra light workloads and all the extra tuning Valve did means it runs surprisingly efficiently, to the point that it keeps up with the 6800U at 9W TDP. Windows becomes much less of an advantage if you're limiting yourself to lower power applications because a lot of that is going to be emulators - which are more likely to directly support Linux, or indie games which are going to use more off the shelf engines that should play nice with Proton.
tbh why does AMD still collabing with asus after with the controversies with asus x amd stuff, like the ally vs review production, asus not guaranteeing beta bios that lead to exploding cpu, laptop bsod after bios update, etc that asus is doing that hummiliates AMD at this point