Only a few seconds into the video I said to myself, "weep hole". I remember one time while I was out driving, the water pump on my '66 Biscayne 283 went out, ( it was actually the thermostat - d'oh!), so I pulled over to the side of the road, walked to an auto parts store, bought a water pump plus anti-freeze and changed it on the side of the road in less than an hour. Back then you could put almost every tool you needed to do any repair in your trunk.
I still stand by my contention that Automotive engineers MUST spend a year, every 5 years of designing automobiles, working on the designs they inflicted on the mechanics.
Auto tech of 21 yrs; 10 yrs at dealerships, 10+ at independent shop, and I concur with everything you said in the video. And surprisingly I have yet to have the "pleasure" of replacing one of these water pumps. But I'm sure I will have to before not too much longer. Also, just by your words and your temperament, I can tell you would make an excellent employer or coworker. 👍
I will say this again Kenny needs to start a consulting firm when buying used vehicles. Im a retired mechanic and Im amazed how fast the mechanical world is passing me by.LOL😊
My kids have taurus with the same engine, they bought it as a broken car at auction,,,cause "my dad can fix it" ! I did ,,had to put an engine in it. The engine still ran but the water pump was so bad the bearing were ground up and in the pan. Of course so was the coolant. The metal filings from ground bearings were everywhere. What a job changing the engine,, car is all wheel drive.
Reminds me of the early 2000s when I was putting a water pump on my first GM Quad 4. The water pump ran off the timing chain and was located on the rear of the engine under the manifold. Back then, "what idiot dreamed up this nightmare?" Some bad ideas never seem to go away.
Good morning little brother Kenny, I keep telling my daughter in Oklahoma that she should have this done as a 'preventive maintenance' job. It will save in the long run and may save her engine.
The Ford Fusion V6 with the 3.0 has a great design....the water pump is at the rear of the engine driven directly by a short belt from the rear of one of the camshafts and fully accessible. The engine, design engineers know what is practical design for repairs but we don't know their priorities....like compact design, sharing engines with different models and of course cost and assembly.
I wonder if you can back the cam bolts back a hair and just move the cam back that might allow room for that guide bolt to come out. Probably not, the engineer was very thorough in his attempt to add book time to this job. Some people say the engineers today have no regards for the techs but I think it's deeper then that.
1977 chevy pickup... 4 bolt fan with 4 bolt pump.. 4 bolts i believe to remove plastic fan cover... What made it difficult was removing the fan...1 hr job.
2:52 the guide you are talking about, can be gotten without taking both gears out. If you loosen the bolt and pull the cam phaser out about a quarter of an inch, you can just sneak out the bolt with the guide. Saves a good little bit of time, just gotta be careful
Just did one on a Taurus with 300,000 + miles. Did the phasers, chains and guides since were there. Better to leak out the weep hole then internally and not know it until it's an oil milkshake for miles.
Hey Kenny. I have two of these 3.5. If you change the coolant every year you can get 200k out of these water pumps. Seen this done by a few people. it seems excessive but its cheaper than water pumps.
Easiest water pump I’ve done is my 99 Chrysler T&C 3.8. Hardest part is jacking it up, drain & refill & belt. Most water pumps have much more stuff in the way.
I did a lot of water pumps in the 1990s and they were all so easy, even in the cars that seemed "small" THEN! I remember thinking that they were still putting engines of the same size into cars that were, at that point, smaller. Now we've gone just INSANE...
My parents had a '08 Taurus that had a very similar setup. Had it changed at 90,000. While in there I had them change the timing chain and the guides. Not cheap, but neither is a new engine or a new car.
Hey Kenny!👋 In the age of 3D Solid Modeling, there is really no excuse for not designing access to that Unreachable bolt. Or at least providing a tool if Nothing else! I would always scrutinize any model I was creating for issues like that and part interferences, and clearance for tools!🤔 Before you actually make the parts!🤨 Mike in San Diego.🌞🚀🎸🖖
My taurus has that engine and the water pump started leaking 2 weeks after the warranty was up. Took a month to do it all myself because of backorders, broken bolts, and special tools.
If it “weeps” (leaks) into the crankcase, you’re up s…. Creek. The rear wheel drive (external water pump) versions of these cyclone engines are very good.
If the water pump starts leaking through the weep hole you can consider yourself "lucky". I was lucky back when I had a 2013 Explorer but a lot of folks had the milkshake experience and a dead engine. So there are 2 stages of this water pump issue. 1 is bad the 2 is catastrophe. So I got exhibit 1, lucky me, 2 day job, very expensive and it was just over 100,000 miles. 106 if my memory serves right.
I know that the design was forced because of size constraints on transverse mounted engines but you’d think they would make them so that they didn’t fail so early. Engines like the 3.5L and the 3.7L are pretty good engines when mounted externally for use in trucks.
Not to mention the 2.7 would just literally get coked up with oil varnish due to inadequate oil passages for bearings . I had this happen in an intrepid years ago. The motor was junk. It only had 130,000 miles.
Really makes me wonder why manufacturers don’t use electric water pumps, it’d save them a half yard of chain on each motor. Bear in mind that a lot of cars use electric power steering and electric driven aircon pumps.
Dad had a 11 edge didn't catch it in time. Locked the engine up. Estimate was for $5-6000 for new engine. Sad thing was he still owed 4000. Shop bought it for 1000. 😢
Bought a non oen fuel pump for my nailhead buick, oem type had a set of wheep holes so gas could drain out before getting into oil.it was lesking gas out of these holes, reason i replaced it. Non oem did not have these holes,where is the gas gonna go when this junk pump fails?
*Me a couple years ago:* "I dont know guys, maybe we should try and understand the engineers and what they did, there must have been a reason for doing things this way." *Me now, after working on vehicles for a while:* "These people know literally nothing about the real world."
All 3.5 duratec engines that are transverse have this but the ones for rear wheel drive have the pump outside. Were the engineers drunk when designing this engine? I had to do my 07 Edge at 180k it had failed completely inside the engine and dumped coolant in the oil. At the time it was 1400.00 in parts, chains, guides, tensioner, bolts, water pump, I also put a new oil pump in since i was there, vvt solenoids, and new phasers ( there was a tsb on updated phasers ) both belts, timing cover seal, new harmonic balancer ( seal wore a groove in the original didn't want oil leak ) valve cover gasket set, plugs and coils, upper intake gasket, oil pressure sensor, and the Ford special timing cover sealant. not to mention all the consumables like brake clean 12 cans lol and to bottles motor flush used as a rinse to get the milkshake out of valve train components. When it failed engine temp had just began to rise and car was pulled over and shut off right away, towed home 3miles. I went and got 2 5 qt jugs of cheap oil and 2 cheap filters. Pulled the fuel pump relay dumped oil and filter put on one filter and 5qts oil cranked it over to circulate fresh oil dumped it again repeated and let it sit for a few days until I had all my parts. dumped oil and began work. took me 3 6hr days to do. lots of cleaning and making sure everything was timed ( used cam locks ) The key was taking my time to make sure everything was right. You definitely don't want to do this job twice because of mistakes.
Why didn't Ford just stick with belt driven water pumps? If there's not enough room on the main serpentine belt why not just use a modified design of what they had on the 3.0L Duratec. The camshaft had a belt pulley attached to it that drove the water pump.
Ford should pay. Stupid should hurt. I'm sure the sales person didn't brag to the customer about this awesome feature. Kinda like the Wet Belt on the Fiesta and Trax.
I am convinced that today's vehicles are designed this way on purpose. It seems that they are meant to last the length of the warranty period or once the loan is paid off. The manufacturers expect that at the end of those periods the owner reports back to the showroom to start the process over again. A lot of todays engines seem to be designed to be replaced as a unit rather than be repaired. In the distant past the mechanic would remove and disassemble an alternator or starter and repair it. Now they remove the faulty unit and replace it with a reman unit. It's now that way with modern engines.
Its a pain in the butt for sure but the core of this engine is extremely durable with port injection and can go 300,000-400,000 miles with timely oil changes. I plan a preventative replacement of the pump and timing components every 120,000 miles.
Yeah Ford and their infinite wisdom when it comes to this dumb placement for the water pump. But wait there's more, GM said hold my beer and designed their water pumps for the Equinox to run off of the crankshaft. As for the cam bolts, I believe ARP has come out with a set of cam bolts that replace the one time use bolts.
all the complaining about the cost of auto insurance going up, a lot of that is due to the extreme cost of getting into the areas to do the repairs. lots of blame should go to the designer of the vehicles. just look at the replacement of a complete headlight on today's cars. bumpers aren't bumpers anymore they are covers that don't like any contact. take me back 30 yrs.
designs like this are the biggest reason I'll never buy another Ford! I owned several other fords and every one was either simply mediocre or downright trash. after having several GM's I got a Kia and now a Sentra, no problems with either Kia or Nissan but the others were only OK! worst 2 cars I've owned were an 82 Escort and 98 Blazer!
It is possible to engineer a bulletproof water pump that will last longer than the car. If they had spent another $30 per engine, nobody would ever have to change it.
I own a 2016 Explorer with the 3.5 v6 with the internal water pump and monitor the coolant usage every 3500 miles when I change the oil. I’ve done a water pump on a customers Lincoln with the 3.5. Book time is almost 14 hrs. The biggest problem is if that water has a catastrophic failure because the oil is going to turn into a chocolate milkshake and then you’ll end up with bearing failure. Stupid design.
Another example of why most mechanics really dislike engineers. Thanks Kenny
Only a few seconds into the video I said to myself, "weep hole".
I remember one time while I was out driving, the water pump on my '66 Biscayne 283 went out, ( it was actually the thermostat - d'oh!), so I pulled over to the side of the road, walked to an auto parts store, bought a water pump plus anti-freeze and changed it on the side of the road in less than an hour. Back then you could put almost every tool you needed to do any repair in your trunk.
That makes too much sense... Nowadays. The engineers have lost their damn minds.
I still stand by my contention that Automotive engineers MUST spend a year, every 5 years of designing automobiles, working on the designs they inflicted on the mechanics.
Consider it community service
And I will stand by my contention that engineering to intentionally defeat DIYers is real. Especially with Ford.
@@rossryder944 You can't make me believe that these cars are designed the way they are by accident.
@@williammiller2750 Not trying to make you believe anything. But that's not what I said.
@@williammiller2750 I've been saying that engineers should have to do just that.
Thanks for showing me why I am not owning a Ford Flex 3.5!
Bring back the famous 289 or 283!!!
Or the 302!
Auto tech of 21 yrs; 10 yrs at dealerships, 10+ at independent shop, and I concur with everything you said in the video. And surprisingly I have yet to have the "pleasure" of replacing one of these water pumps. But I'm sure I will have to before not too much longer.
Also, just by your words and your temperament, I can tell you would make an excellent employer or coworker. 👍
Wouldn't you rather be working on that classic Mustang. Sweet and simple.
Absolutely! Keep wrenching - Kenny
Designed Obsolescence
Disposable electric vehicles and software
DEVAS
I will say this again Kenny needs to start a consulting firm when buying used vehicles. Im a retired mechanic and Im amazed how fast the mechanical world is passing me by.LOL😊
Wow, engineering at its finest!
At ford quality is job one.
I'm not convinced Ford actually employs any engineers.
They call them “Better Ideas”
My 1977 LTD II water pump replacement back in the day was a 90 minute job.
Rube Goldberg would be proud of the 3.5 design!
My kids have taurus with the same engine, they bought it as a broken car at auction,,,cause "my dad can fix it" ! I did ,,had to put an engine in it. The engine still ran but the water pump was so bad the bearing were ground up and in the pan. Of course so was the coolant. The metal filings from ground bearings were everywhere. What a job changing the engine,, car is all wheel drive.
What yr Taurus?
GM EcoTec 2.4 -- "Hold my beer"
My goodness, the old lady's '16 Equinox 🙄
Reminds me of the early 2000s when I was putting a water pump on my first GM Quad 4. The water pump ran off the timing chain and was located on the rear of the engine under the manifold. Back then, "what idiot dreamed up this nightmare?" Some bad ideas never seem to go away.
Good morning little brother Kenny, I keep telling my daughter in Oklahoma that she should have this done as a 'preventive maintenance' job. It will save in the long run and may save her engine.
The Ford Fusion V6 with the 3.0 has a great design....the water pump is at the rear of the engine driven directly by a short belt from the rear of one of the camshafts and fully accessible. The engine, design engineers know what is practical design for repairs but we don't know their priorities....like compact design, sharing engines with different models and of course cost and assembly.
I wonder if you can back the cam bolts back a hair and just move the cam back that might allow room for that guide bolt to come out. Probably not, the engineer was very thorough in his attempt to add book time to this job. Some people say the engineers today have no regards for the techs but I think it's deeper then that.
Sold my 2016 explorer and bought a 2004 suburban this year. The internal water pump was a huge contributing factor to my decision lol
Well..that's another car/engine I'm crossing off my list to possibly own.
Wow that's alot of work for just a water pump, good information 😊
Thats why i drive older vehicles..i love my 99 chevy express..5.7.
I wrenched in a Ford dealership for almost 5 years. I used to love doing those water pumps!
@ghostwrench2292 You probably get really good at getting them done once you repair a few. Keep wrenching - Kenny
On a Customer pay ticket, lol!
Thank you ❤ the netherlands
1977 chevy pickup... 4 bolt fan with 4 bolt pump.. 4 bolts i believe to remove plastic fan cover... What made it difficult was removing the fan...1 hr job.
FORD has done a great job convincing me to NEVER buy any of their Junk. I will keep obliging! I like the water pumps to be mounted outside the block!
worst designs I've ever seen
That's scary 😮 makes you wonder how engineers keep their job 😮🎉. YIKES 😅❤ Have a wonderful day Mr Kenny
2:52 the guide you are talking about, can be gotten without taking both gears out. If you loosen the bolt and pull the cam phaser out about a quarter of an inch, you can just sneak out the bolt with the guide. Saves a good little bit of time, just gotta be careful
Man. That is some silliness.
That water pump is easy. I have fun tearing the front of the motor apart. (MASTER TECH HERE)
Definitely one way to force the checking of the timing chain and components.
What I really learn from you is learning from others mistakes of the cars they buy.
Just did one on a Taurus with 300,000 + miles. Did the phasers, chains and guides since were there. Better to leak out the weep hole then internally and not know it until it's an oil milkshake for miles.
Who knows what lurks in the mind of those imag-ineers? Not even the SHADOW knows!!!
Hey Kenny. I have two of these 3.5. If you change the coolant every year you can get 200k out of these water pumps. Seen this done by a few people. it seems excessive but its cheaper than water pumps.
Good to know. Thanks for sharing. Keep wrenching 🔧
2:48 I dont pull the phasers all the way off. Loosen them both and ya can sneak the guide out.
Easiest water pump I’ve done is my 99 Chrysler T&C 3.8. Hardest part is jacking it up, drain & refill & belt. Most water pumps have much more stuff in the way.
I did a lot of water pumps in the 1990s and they were all so easy, even in the cars that seemed "small" THEN! I remember thinking that they were still putting engines of the same size into cars that were, at that point, smaller. Now we've gone just INSANE...
Sooo glad I retired from wrenching.
I learned something today! I didn't know that the 3.5L didn't share the architecture of the 3.0L Duratec. Bummer.
Yeah I agree what a nightmare 😮
Not just a Ford thing.
My parents had a '08 Taurus that had a very similar setup. Had it changed at 90,000. While in there I had them change the timing chain and the guides. Not cheap, but neither is a new engine or a new car.
Hey Kenny!👋
In the age of 3D Solid Modeling, there is really no excuse for not designing access to that Unreachable bolt.
Or at least providing a tool if Nothing else!
I would always scrutinize any model I was creating for issues like that and part interferences, and clearance for tools!🤔
Before you actually make the parts!🤨
Mike in San Diego.🌞🚀🎸🖖
Gotta love engineers
There's a block pipe plug behind the front cat. If you take it out, not easy to do, the coolant won't go into the oil pan.
I actually like doing those water pumps. Book time is 10 or so, and I can knock them out in 4-5
Damn. Is that on my 2014 F150 3.5 eco boost? That’s crazy
My taurus has that engine and the water pump started leaking 2 weeks after the warranty was up. Took a month to do it all myself because of backorders, broken bolts, and special tools.
If it “weeps” (leaks) into the crankcase, you’re up s…. Creek.
The rear wheel drive (external water pump) versions of these cyclone engines are very good.
What's the deal with the white Mustang? Looks nice in the air.
If the water pump starts leaking through the weep hole you can consider yourself "lucky". I was lucky back when I had a 2013 Explorer but a lot of folks had the milkshake experience and a dead engine. So there are 2 stages of this water pump issue. 1 is bad the 2 is catastrophe. So I got exhibit 1, lucky me, 2 day job, very expensive and it was just over 100,000 miles. 106 if my memory serves right.
That engine is clean inside. Someone takes care of their car.
It's even worse on the first run design of those engines where the timing chain looks like a 10 speed bicycle chain😂
What would've been a better idea is an externally mounted water pump !
Agree--so many engines now are VERY poorly designed
Water pump labor is .2 longer than chain?
Something like that. Which is ridiculous because of all the extra work involved to do the water pump. Keep wrenching 🔧 Kenny
Note to self , never touch one of those or the 2.7 dodge he mentioned .
I know that the design was forced because of size constraints on transverse mounted engines but you’d think they would make them so that they didn’t fail so early. Engines like the 3.5L and the 3.7L are pretty good engines when mounted externally for use in trucks.
Not to mention the 2.7 would just literally get coked up with oil varnish due to inadequate oil passages for bearings . I had this happen in an intrepid years ago. The motor was junk. It only had 130,000 miles.
I had a Chrysler intrepid with an internal water pump. The cost to change it was way more than the car was worth.
Really makes me wonder why manufacturers don’t use electric water pumps, it’d save them a half yard of chain on each motor.
Bear in mind that a lot of cars use electric power steering and electric driven aircon pumps.
What mileage was this vehicle at when the the pump failed?
Don't forget Quality Is Job One 😂
Dad had a 11 edge didn't catch it in time. Locked the engine up. Estimate was for $5-6000 for new engine. Sad thing was he still owed 4000. Shop bought it for 1000. 😢
Bought a non oen fuel pump for my nailhead buick, oem type had a set of wheep holes so gas could drain out before getting into oil.it was lesking gas out of these holes, reason i replaced it. Non oem did not have these holes,where is the gas gonna go when this junk pump fails?
I never had a Japanese water pump fail in 6 years.
OH, MY GOODNESS!
*Me a couple years ago:* "I dont know guys, maybe we should try and understand the engineers and what they did, there must have been a reason for doing things this way."
*Me now, after working on vehicles for a while:* "These people know literally nothing about the real world."
its kind of ironic your demonstrating one of fords worst designs, with one of fords best selling designs on the lift beside you.that white 66 mustang.
The 66 Stang with the inline 6 was so simple to work on.
How is this a better design? I can put a new water pump on a small block Chevy in about an hour, and that's with a beer break.
New engineers from Ford came up with a better idea to screw things up, what did you expect? It’s a Ford.
Water pumps WILL leak at the shaft seal. There's no defending the idea of a water shaft seal that may leak into the same space with engine oil.
i have an 08 avenger with the 2.7 ,,stupid to put the water pump inside...mine only haS 20,000 MILES ticking time bomb ...
All 3.5 duratec engines that are transverse have this but the ones for rear wheel drive have the pump outside. Were the engineers drunk when designing this engine? I had to do my 07 Edge at 180k it had failed completely inside the engine and dumped coolant in the oil. At the time it was 1400.00 in parts, chains, guides, tensioner, bolts, water pump, I also put a new oil pump in since i was there, vvt solenoids, and new phasers ( there was a tsb on updated phasers ) both belts, timing cover seal, new harmonic balancer ( seal wore a groove in the original didn't want oil leak ) valve cover gasket set, plugs and coils, upper intake gasket, oil pressure sensor, and the Ford special timing cover sealant. not to mention all the consumables like brake clean 12 cans lol and to bottles motor flush used as a rinse to get the milkshake out of valve train components. When it failed engine temp had just began to rise and car was pulled over and shut off right away, towed home 3miles. I went and got 2 5 qt jugs of cheap oil and 2 cheap filters. Pulled the fuel pump relay dumped oil and filter put on one filter and 5qts oil cranked it over to circulate fresh oil dumped it again repeated and let it sit for a few days until I had all my parts. dumped oil and began work. took me 3 6hr days to do. lots of cleaning and making sure everything was timed ( used cam locks ) The key was taking my time to make sure everything was right. You definitely don't want to do this job twice because of mistakes.
Why didn't Ford just stick with belt driven water pumps? If there's not enough room on the main serpentine belt why not just use a modified design of what they had on the 3.0L Duratec. The camshaft had a belt pulley attached to it that drove the water pump.
Exactly!!!
I watch lots of repair videos, and no manufacturers make reliable cars. Automobiles have slowly become high-maintenance throwaway items.
So sad Ford didnt learn from Chryslers mistake doing this on the 2.7L. I was at dealership during that era...saw many engines destroyed.
Ford should pay. Stupid should hurt.
I'm sure the sales person didn't brag to the customer about this awesome feature.
Kinda like the Wet Belt on the Fiesta and Trax.
I am convinced that today's vehicles are designed this way on purpose. It seems that they are meant to last the length of the warranty period or once the loan is paid off. The manufacturers expect that at the end of those periods the owner reports back to the showroom to start the process over again. A lot of todays engines seem to be designed to be replaced as a unit rather than be repaired. In the distant past the mechanic would remove and disassemble an alternator or starter and repair it. Now they remove the faulty unit and replace it with a reman unit. It's now that way with modern engines.
Totally correct mlieser!
Ford attends the Church Of The Sub-Genius regularly .
Another one of those “better ideas” from Ford.
Its a pain in the butt for sure but the core of this engine is extremely durable with port injection and can go 300,000-400,000 miles with timely oil changes. I plan a preventative replacement of the pump and timing components every 120,000 miles.
Yeah Ford and their infinite wisdom when it comes to this dumb placement for the water pump. But wait there's more, GM said hold my beer and designed their water pumps for the Equinox to run off of the crankshaft.
As for the cam bolts, I believe ARP has come out with a set of cam bolts that replace the one time use bolts.
I will only stick with the car manufacturer’s tried and true engines like the Ford 4.6L or the 5L Coyote. V6 wise, just the 3.0 or the 3.3 non-turbo.
I have 1996 Cummins 320000mi or. Water pump .
all the complaining about the cost of auto insurance going up, a lot of that is due to the extreme cost of getting into the areas to do the repairs. lots of blame should go to the designer of the vehicles. just look at the replacement of a complete headlight on today's cars. bumpers aren't bumpers anymore they are covers that don't like any contact.
take me back 30 yrs.
10 hour job for a water pump?? wow.
designs like this are the biggest reason I'll never buy another Ford! I owned several other fords and every one was either simply mediocre or downright trash. after having several GM's I got a Kia and now a Sentra, no problems with either Kia or Nissan but the others were only OK! worst 2 cars I've owned were an 82 Escort and 98 Blazer!
It is possible to engineer a bulletproof water pump that will last longer than the car. If they had spent another $30 per engine, nobody would ever have to change it.
What kinda mushrooms was the engineer on who that of putting a water pump inside an engine? Recipe for several disasters
Could have allowed the owner to pay for the timing chains since no extra labor was involved.
Driving the waterpump with the timing chain is an horrendous idea. If they didn't want to use belts they could have used a PTO type setup.
"Ford a Brighter idea 💡" remember that slogan?
Kenny what's up with that 66 Mustang?
Customer should of spent the money on new chains, very dumb!
Just one more reason I quit on new Fords after 40+ years.
Great videos but they are becoming to short and infrequent. We need more content and longer videos.
You sure that’s not a BMW or Mercedes in disguise
Chrysler started doing this crap with the 2.7, planned obsolescence at its finest
What a nightmare.
MADE IN THE USA 😂😅😂
Yep just paid 1.600 bucks to have A 60 buck Water Pump installed Ridiculous..
I own a 2016 Explorer with the 3.5 v6 with the internal water pump and monitor the coolant usage every 3500 miles when I change the oil. I’ve done a water pump on a customers Lincoln with the 3.5. Book time is almost 14 hrs. The biggest problem is if that water has a catastrophic failure because the oil is going to turn into a chocolate milkshake and then you’ll end up with bearing failure. Stupid design.