Random guess, but what if NEPHELE STONGHOLD was hidden not in a colony near a has giant but in the gas of a gas giant? Where better to hide such a place than a constant deadly super hurricane? I'm mainly guessing this based on the "Nephele is a cloud nymph", and it's a long shot, but worth mentioning.
Cool idea reminds me of the kessel run in Star wars kinda idea taking a special route through the storm would get you to the planet or stronghold in this case
"It's on Enceladus." We still don't know what "it" is, (to the best of my knowledge.) Perhaps Cayde mistook Nefele's Stronghold for the Deep Stone Crypt. Perhaps he wasn't even talking to Petra about the Crypt but was talking about the Stronghold.
This would explain why Cayde was talking to the people behind it. Clovis, as far as we knew, was long dead. But Ana Bray? If anyone figured out she faked her death, it would have been Cayde
Nah, "it" was deep stone crypt. Destiny had been planning the deep stone crypt since 2012. There's some early sketches of maps that are identical to Europa and the concept art are nearly identical as well (comparing Enceladus to Europa). Europa was likely to be a destiny 3 location but things got scrapped and reused last minute during the Bungie/Activision split. There's a great video detailing this on TH-cam.
Given Nefele’s relation to Zeus, I believe it isn’t unreasonable to put the stronghold’s location somewhere around Jupiter. Alternatively it could be on Ixion, out in the Kuiper belt.
@@Lady_Evelyn Person who shares the story of Nefele's creation. Short-ish version is: Zeus invited Ixion to dinner and took pity on him as his case of madness was caused by him killing his own father-in-law; however Ixion lusted after Hera and seeing this disrespect after Zeus had taken pity upon him and he laid a trap. He created Nefele in the image of Hera to entrap Ixion and it worked and Zeus blasted him from heaven with a lightening bolt and had Hermes tie him to a burning wheel to suffer for his actions. There is reports in game of Cabal interested in things around Neptune and Ixion is basically a dwarf planet that's in the Kuiper belt near Neptune.
Anyone who didn’t play season of the worthy, byf’s skate into the bunker at 14:05 was a thing of beauty. The architects claimed many rezzes that season.
What if Rasputin put the “cloud” reference to both a literal and figurative sense? What if Nefele Stronghold is a “Cloud storage” facility for everything Rasputin has, and he placed it “in the clouds”? INSIDE one of the four Jovian planets: Jupiter, Saturn (which would REALLY be interesting, considering we still got Oryx’s corpse casually floating around inside that planet), Uranus, or Neptune. My bet’s on the Clouds of Saturn, and we have to fight off the Lucent Hive as they try to recover Oryx’s body, and end up stumbling into the Nefele Stronghold
This would've been a heck of a setup for a raid if we weren't gonna get a D1 raid for this year. Wish we'd have another Forsaken kinda thing with one or two original raids during the seasonal stories.
So you know how the Witness basically yeeted the Hive from under the Traveler’s nose? Yeah, I have a feeling the Traveler is about to pay it back with Rasputin
Nephele, being a cloud nymph, and trying to save her children tells us exactly what that stronghold is and where to find it: A place for Rasputin to hide backups because he sussed out that the Witness was going to destroy his primaries; and where better to hide it than inside a gas giant. Perhaps Bungie will finally let us fly our ships into our local gas giant to go find Rasputin?
With the neptunian city in Lightfall. I think next season will see Rasuptin reawaken and have us defend his bunkers or warsats so that we can piece together where nephele stronghold will be and find it before the witness does.
I have a feeling the Nefele Stronghold may be the “cloud” in which Rasputin’s copy is stored. In case he is compromised by the darkness/witness. As such, my prediction is that by next season, we may have to go find a copy of Rasputin at this Stronghold. Not sure what it could be or where, but one of the Witnesses minions may try to stop us. I’d love it if Bungie made it to where Rasputin, as an Exo, Rasputin was captured and we’d need to rescue him. They could then recreate the original mission scrapped from D1. Which would be great, look what they did with Crow. Now, all he needs to do is say: “Out here in the wild, this is how we talk”.
Another thing to consider is that Nefele kinda sounds like Nifleheim, which is one of the nine realms in Norse mythology. And, it’s characterized as being mostly ice and cold, so my bet is that it could be somewhere on Europa because there’s probably more Clovis Bray facilities there.
@@M0b1us_118 Nephilim is also a term in Christianity used for angel/demon hybrids. Beings whom are shunned from Heaven or both Heaven and hell. Perhaps Rasputin has everything needed for what Ana is trying to do, including a backup of himself there? Ironically, Ana, and her family had a role in creating Rasputin. Even more ironic, Ana may have rediscovered her role in Rasputin’s creation through Elsie. I’d wish we had some more to read her thoughts in reacting to these revelations. What If Ana used the Relic to learn of the Stronghold from her past life?
I think its pretty apparent given what we know now that Rasputin didn't shoot the Traveler. The writers have hinted that Savathun had something to do with the Traveler not leaving the Sol system (with the deal she made with the farmer), and while you could say that this may not be true (due to it being a Savathun story), its been almost confirmed throughout most of the season that the reason that the Traveler didn't leave wasn't because Rasputin shot at it or damaged it on some capacity, but rather Savathun being deceitful as always.
The song that those people sang, the alpha Lupi lore card mentions that Traveller heard her children crying out, while it was on Io. Nothing Rasputin could do would stop the Traveller, it already attempted to battle the Black fleet at the edge of the solar system to no avail, so attacking the Traveller whose power registers very similar to the Darkness might agitate another being with paracausal power on Earth which would probably not be the most logical thing to do. There's a powerful fleet advancing and you want to attack a being that has powers similar to it, might be digging your own grave.
We don’t know the full story. We have hints to the narrative during the collapse that Savathun and other entities/variables were responsible for keeping the Traveler stranded on Earth. But there could be multiple layers to “surviving the truth”. 1: the light is not for humanity alone. 2: the Light does not make a saint. 3: Even with the Light, Savathun and the Lucent Brood still want humanity extinct. Finally 4: The final layer of the truth we may need to survive, is that the Traveler may not have “saved” humanity out of faith and good will towards humanity. But rather, out of necessity for survival. An immortal army that had no past identities so they would blindly protect the Traveler until it healed enough to leave again. If these theories to the Traveler’s motives are proven true, it may mean it was never on our side, it doesn’t care about us, and it may only care for its own selfish survival.
About the location of Nefele Stronghold We are talking about Rasputin who is one of if not the most intellegent being in sol so i think Nefele Stronghold is hidden in 1 of 2 different loctaion "types". "Type" 1: its hidden practically in plain sight so when you search for it you disregard the location cuz it would be too obvious "type" 2: its really well hidden. And i mean the kind of hidden that nobody would find in like a million years. I mean we are talking about Rasputin he is supposed to be able to predict threats that nobody else could and i think he would be able to think of a place like that
Note that Seraphim Vault and the surrounding underground facilities are of the hidden in plain sight type, Rasputin surely has experience with that type
Let me be completely honest, I love the idea of Rasputin and him as a character. But, Rasputin has disappointed me so many times, he might as well be a senile old man. Seriously he's hyped up to be a superweapon protector of humanity, yet he looses almost every single time he does anything. He's essentially bungie's "oh look how strong our villain is; they beat down Rasputin!!" BUT EVERYTHING BEATS RASPUTIN.
I think that is kind of the point though. In two ways in fact. First, He represents the absolute best that the Golden Age could offer and in some cases he has been a threat to us. However it also shows just how strong that we are, in the fact that he sometimes needs our help b/c he just isn't good enough to do it himself, he needs a light bearer.
Exactly. "Look at our superpowerful ai character, he's the most powerful piece of tech from the golden age" yet his ass gets clapped by everything thrown at him. He is literally useless
@@slorbonmyknorb777 that's the point though, if humanity's technology alone was enough to stop the witness and his armies then guardians literally would not exist......he is a representation of human advancement and how that is utterly useless against being of a paracasual nature.
I am reminded of Savathun's 2 truths and a lie, in particular the one that The Last City is not actually the last city. Perhaps it was a city Rasputin protected at the time of the collapse and has kept hidden even from the rest of humanity?
Rasputin's subminds sound similar to something from an element from a 40k necron book. You have Rasputin as the core entity, but there are a series of smaller partitions. They each are essentially a 'lesser' copy of him, but with a particular specialty to lessen the load on the core mind. They have a degree of independence, being able to run subroutines and protocols on their own, but are still part of the greater system. The Necron character had 4 subminds in the forms of Combative, Doctrinal, Analytical, and Xenology. I imagine Warminds would work in a somewhat similar way, with certain minds having particular functions or permissions.
Considering the connotations Nephele has with clouds and gases, i dont think it would be a far stretch to say maybe it is a station fo some kind on one of our local gas giants i.e Uranus, Saturn, or Jupiter. I think it would be very plausible, i mean there is no better place to hide than in plain sight.
My money's on Neptune, mainly because of this one idle dialogue segment from Crow in the H.E.L.M. "Huh...Cabal cruisers keep returning to Neptune's orbital path. Wonder if they're hiding something in its gravity well." Could be nothing, but I thought I'd mention it.
Wasn't there some sort of lore entry where Ana Bray was exploring near a gas giant, and there was like a bunch of evil Exos and stuff? I can't remember any of the details but I think Ana bray, and by extension Rasputin, have been near gas giants before
Nefele Stronghold could be on Europa, someone at Bungie did say "We aren't done with the DSC" (paraphrased). I think that if they were to add in the the Stronghold, it'd be within the DSC if it isn't in any new location that comes with Lightfall or Final Shape. I have a strong feeling it's coming within the WQ year, but idk when until we confirm any of the years future seasons.
I would love a “Preservation” style mission inside DSC as the season on-boarding mission and going somewhere Clovis probably didn’t want us to explore. He likes portals, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he hid one after the crypt security encounter maybe leading to the stronghold on a different planet or in a space station or an abandoned ship.
Nephele hooked up with Ixion and gave birth to the Centaurs. In space, Centaurs are small planetary bodies which exist around the outer planets. For example, Nessus is a Centaur. It's theorized that Saturn's moon Phoebe is also a Centaur captured by Saturn's gravity. Phoebe's brother is Cronus, the Greek equivalent to Saturn, who overthrew his father and ruled during the "Golden Age". I would bet the Nephele Stronghold is near Saturn, possibly on Phoebe itself. The Hive have had an interest in Rasputin as well, with Rasputin originally having been an Exo we would have rescued from the Hive Dreadnought. While that never happened, Rasputin remains of interest to the Hive, with Xol personally attacking him during the collapse, and the Hive Dreadnought does remain in orbit of Saturn. I would put my money on the system around Saturn being of major importance soon. I really hope we find out next season. I love Rasputin content and need me some more Warmind themed gear.
I wish more people would stop taking the term "stronghold" so literally and just think maybe Rasputin's "Nefele Stronghold" is literally him storing himself IN THE CLOUD. It's cloud storage, ffs! He has to have realized that it is impossible for a single location to be safe from the Darkness. The only way to ensure survival when facing an enemy of such power is by distributing himself to EVERYWHERE. It's the same concept as Dead Orbit, honestly. If we're stuck in a single system, we are extremely vulnerable to extinction. The best way to ensure humanity survives is to spread out, so that there is no single point of failure, no single event that could wipe all of us out. The Nefele Stronghold isn't a single literal stronghold. It's not some crazy hidden bunker in some specific location. He has spread himself out to a degree that makes it impossible for him to be completely erased, because no matter how thorough the cleansing, something will survive somewhere and be the seed to reconstruct his systems.
It does feel like we are abt to get something to do with ana and rasputin again real soon, i say maybe within the next season or 2 unless they decide to do it in the next big expansion, honestly i wouldnt be surprised if it was on Enceladus, since we never knew what cayde meant was on there and it wouldnt surprise me if this stronghold is also there
Since Bungie seems to be really on the "tying up loose threads" kick, this Nephele stronghold might be a really good opportunity for them to retcon "It's on Enceladus." Super plausible though linking a Rasputin location to Petra is a bit of a reach I think.
I think it's on Hyperion. It's implied as the farthest location humanity reached and has been hinted 1 maybe twice giving it the freedom to be written as anything
Personally, I would love to see a new social space that's like a golden age Colony built out of an old Exodus ship. Like it's a new mission with only question marks as the name and description. And when we fly into the planets atmosphere we see a bunch of warsats in orbit and when we get to the colony we have to fight through Rasputin frames and shit. And once we get into the city we find a submind and we have to fight like Siva built Rasputin frames. It'll probably never happen but it can't hurt to hope for it
Nefele was a cloud created by Zeus in the image of Hera. Her purpose was to be a decoy to see if Ixion, who lusted after Hera, could restrain himself (he couldnt). Nefele would later have two children with Athamas who would later be targeted by Ino, their stepmother. Ino would trick the farmers of the village into thinking that Nefele's children had to be sacrificed to prevent a disaster of famine. Nefele saved them by sending a flying golden ram to take them to King Aeetes who would keep them safe. they were told not to look down as they escaped, but the child Helle looked down and fell off and drowned in the ocean. the remaining child made it to safety and then was allowed to marry King Aeetes' daughter princess Chalciope. Nefele: possible decoy copy of Rasputin? humanity? Athamas: Darkness itself? Ixion and Ino: Rhulk? the witness? Nefele's children: Felwinter before they got the light as well as one other golem who escaped? King Aeetes: an unexpected ally, maybe even savathun? Nefele Stronghold: some kind of decoy stronghold meant to attract the attention of rhulk, the witness, and others like them in order to draw attention away from "Hera" which presumably could be the traveler, rasputin's most important subsystem, humanity, or something else considered important to rasputin or humanity. maybe the reason we dont have record of nefele stronghold is because what we know of as rasputin may be nefele itself, and the true rasputin could be elsewhere.
My bet is that nephew stronghold could have the information of rasputins original framework witch could be terrifying if the witness squires it since it could mean them creating their own rasputin or even multiple that could be potential even more dangerous.
Having the Stronghold being a digital space would be interesting and also be a reason for Mithrax and the Splicers to help with incursions being the seasonal activity, delving into the Stronghold to rescue or recover parts of Rasputin needed by Ana to prepare his frame to work.
man, I always get excited whenever Rasputin begins to show up in the spotlight. I'm hoping a future season lets us rebuild The Tyrant or at least explore a new location, like Nefele Stronghold. Also that Nova build is insane and I must know its secrets.
Fun fact to those unaware: When Byf is talking about Loki Crown, the less obvious part of "crown" could also be a reference to the older usage of the term "crowning", which means to hit an individual on the top of the head with force
My personal suspicions on where Nefele Stronghold; The myth of Nefele features the goddess trying to hide her children *in the clouds*. Taken literally, perhaps it could be somewhere like the European Aerial Zone, or maybe at an immensely high mountain peak. Or even wilder, it's a ship of some sort - constantly mobile - making it immensely difficult to find. Or we can take cloud to mean *the cloud*, as in a digital space similar to the internet, perhaps created by a big brain Warmind foreseeing a threat capable of seeing all of it's bunkers and vaults, and attacking and destroying them. There is nothing more hidden than something invisible, untouchable, literally undetectable. Nefele Stronghold being a cloud-adjacent location containing his 'children' sounds very much like the perfect way to describe a place where Rasputin is keeping back ups of himself, or other Siddharta Golems. And what makes it even more difficult to find is, how do you search for something on a network of computers you cannot access? It's like trying to guess the location of a single shoebox inside an entire apartment building you've never entered - and then you're told the shoebox is capable of moving to other replicas of that exact same apartment building. How many people will even realize it's a digital place rather than a physical one? It will take ages to search every conceivable physical location. It's like the Vex network; we only knew about it on paper until we were given the exact tools needed to enter it. I suspect it's a digital location. It then raises the question of if Guardians can enter it, and if we'll need to. Perhaps a strike. Perhaps a goddamn dungeon. Who knows?
Well if clouds are related to the name, that would suggest one of the gas giants in Sol. Could be deep within the cloud layer, or if one wanted to keep such a place safe it would be on the move constantly perhaps within the eye of Jupiter's Red spot, the most powerful storm there is.
I think the loki part of loki crown has more to do with the myth in which Loki kills Baldur, who was a god beloved by all. I think it has less to do with how loki killed baldur, and it's simply meant to symbolize Loki (Rasputin) killing Baldur (traveler) who was beloved by all
Haven't seen this mentioned much, but if Nefele is a cloud nymph, the most significantly relevant place in the system is the Oort Cloud, which basically consists of trans-Neptunian objects, ie Pluto or beyond. We're talking hundreds of AUs out, where objects orbit the sun only once every few thousand years. There's a lot of small objects out there, and other than Nessus and the Leviathan, we've never been out that far. The Golden Agers barely made it out that far if Exodus Black is any indication, so it'd be really out of the way. Also lines up with the bit about Efrideet's pacifist colony beyond the known edges of the system. Just a thought.
I think nefele stronghold will be a tower or reef like location that will be in the Kuiper belt, potentially on a dwarf planet such as makemake or haumea, as both of those names are named after gods of fertility or creation. That idea of fertility or creation could have the idea of protecting children with a safe place for prosperity.
This kind of lore, the stuff that involves important characters and story arcs, but is still very much steeped in mystery is probably my favorite kind of lore. I just love the feeling of mystery you get from reading it. (probably because it reminds me of the Destiny 1 days, when we didn't know nearly as much about the broader universe, and the lore wasn't being fleshed out like it is today.)
So this is 3 months old, but maybe the Nephele Stronghold is a code for the city on Neptune that we will explore during Lightfall. Or maybe a seperate area on Neptune.
Your christian analogy for the crown part of loki crown is in the same idea, but it's still most likely solely norse based, as loki was imprisoned and made to wear a crown of venomous serpents around his head that constantly dripped venom on his face, disfiguring him.
Coming back to this video after the most recent reveal stream: What if Neo Muna is Nefele Stronghold? I'm not knowledgeable enough to point at exact threads and connect everything, but I think it's a thought worth exploring- speculatively, at least. It was emphasized during the stream that we know nothing about this place and that they have technologies far beyond any known places in Sol up until this point. Additionally, if it was the reason why the initial Collapse failed, wouldn't it make even more sense that the Witness shows up there first? To do away with what foiled them the first time? It could very well just be that the Neptune colony is the closest to the edge of Sol (and if we apply Occam's Razor, that is the sound option), but it's still an interesting thought to entertain.
Hey Byf, you mention that you don't think Efrideet's pacifist community is somewhere that many people have been, but I kind of disagree. Shiro-4 mentioned that he was shocked that the commune could stay hidden in plain sight for so long, which suggests that this IS someplace where people have traveled often and yet missed. Obviously I could be wrong, but just my two cents.
We should all be very glad that Golden Age Ana Bray fed this Warmind with not only knowledge, but literature. This guy is over a thousand years in the future and is still naming stuff after long forgotten deity’s or religious symbols.
Well if we're talking about secret locations the obvious one to me is Enceladus. One of Caydes last messages had a secret code for Petra simply saying "It's on Enceladus"
I definitely hope we’ll see something in the lore about Enceladus. Not sure I’d put all my chips down on it being the Stronghold, but who knows. It’d be something Cayde and Petra would be investigating… who knows, maybe that’s where the Distributary singularity ended up…
at most interact with it, not quite sure if it's the same type of information domain like the vex (as in a simpler plane, rather than in full HD 3D space). Also bet that Rasputin has means to kick us out by spawning an Exploder right on top of us... or a Sparrow.
Slight point of order with the LOKI CROWN tangent: Ghosts were unprecedented at the time of the Collapse. As such, even with RASPUTIN's ability to simulate outside-context scenarios, there should have been no evidence that such was even possible.
It could’ve been as simple as a contingency to not allow the Traveler’s immense power to pass to another race etc? Kind of ‘If humanity can’t have it no one can’?
I feel like discounting the reef is possibly a mistake. While the reef didn’t exist, the asteroids it is built on did. Where better to hide something precious than in one of thousands of seemingly uninhabitable space rocks.
Hey Byf, I want to say I really found your Loki Crown connection very interesting, and I would agree with the theological connection you made GG man!!!
Gonna try and put my theory here : - "Nephele stronghold" referes to a cloud storage facility, where C.B or Rasputin has hid either backup copies of the warmind protocols OR where the "sidarta golem" project is hidden. Could also be both. - Its location is either gonna be on a gaz giant, like Neptune or Uranus, or far beyond the Keiper belt. - The pacifist guardians probably (and unknowingly) built their colony on top of the facility - The Witness will attack the complex/colony, hoping to find clues on the collapse OR to corrupt Rasputin against us - The next/future season involving Rasputin is also gonna put the pacifists and lady Efrideet in the delicate position where they are gonna need to choose between their ideals and their survival. Since Bungie likes to put moral dilemma in the core of (some) story driven content and including the changes coming to the Iron banner playlist, its one of the way I would see a return of Efrideet in a future season, while also bringing a conclusion to the Rasputin/engram story. Just my thoughs.
my favorite pet moments are every time my German Shepherd mix, Thespis, chases flies around the living room or lays down on my legs or feet. She's just the most precious idiot
I just kind of hope the space of the activity (a Warmind platform, Nefele stronghold, whatever) brings an activity similar to Warmind bunkers. Running daily bunker completions was how I kept my sanity during lockdown, so they have special meaning to me.
Imagine how awesome of a season this whole thing would make where the raid or dungeon would be to journey inside the stronghold kind of like dsc but to help to restore Rasputins power
What if the neon city in light fall was originally fephele stronghold and Rasputin set up a place where humanity could survive and wiped his memory of it to prevent anyone from finding it
seeing this post Lightfall, with Nefele being the Nymph of Clouds, could also have been a reference to the Cloudstriders who protect the safe place of Neomuna
Loki's crown maybe a reference to the strap Odin used to tie Loki's head down to a table for eternity, unable to leave and disappear again with an unbreakable tether, for betraying the gods.... well Odin anyway! But that's just my thoughts and paraphrased a lot
Nefele (in Greek mythology) was the mother of Nessus. The Nefele Stronghold might not be a place, but a thing. The Exodus ships carried SIVA to help teraform and colonize (birth/bring life like a mother does) these planet/moon locations During last years Halloween event we got lore leading to SIVA possibly being located in the lost sector near Failsafe and a huge battle to secure it.
My random “this would be cool” guess is that Nephele Stronghold is on Saturn. I don’t buy the “it’s talking about the digital cloud” thing as Destiny very rarely uses modern terms for technology used by characters, preferring to use larger more descriptive scientific terms. A physical link to a clouded area seems much more likely to me. Saturn is a really fascinating idea to me with a cloud city (like StarWars or Jupiter Ascending) perpetual thunderstorms providing power, large dark Blade Runner aesthetics from an old golden age facility. Maybe a frozen oryx cameo… As far as “it’s too close to Titan”. It’s likely a top secret facility inside one of the least hospitable places in the solar system that I don’t think proximity would be much of an issue. Putting a top secret test facility/bunker in Saturn’s atmosphere doesn’t seem like something out of reach for Rasputin and too big to keep top-secret. Saturn’s a big planet with its own natural radar disruption. I just don’t think you can count it out just yet. Idk, just my dumb fan fiction worthy idea.
Nefele Stronghold will most likely hold a Pristine copy of Rasputin, and if the fragment JuJu rescued and Ana Bray holds core code that this pristine copy could use to BECOME Rasputin, an active functioning Rasputin, that could THEN be housed in an Exo Frame?????? I suspect a bit of traveling back to the time of the Collapse might also be on the cards to solve this mystery.
Rasputin’s behavior in the past suggests that he was very careful especially with copies of himself and kept any bunkers that housed those copies secret until he wanted them revealed. The Stronghold would be somewhere inconspicuous but accessible and I don’t think it’s on any of the known locations we’ve been to. My guess would be that it’s on one of the moons of Neptune on either Triton or Proteus.
My biggest bet about Nefele stronghold is that this place is facility where Rasputin has stored some data about the black fleet during the collapse which he could now use to create weapons that are able to damge the black fleet. This possibility also shows why the Witness is interested in this place so much, because if Rasputin is able to counter the black fleet the witness would lose the enormous advantage that is the fact that the blaclfleet is practicaly indestructible at the moment, grealty changing the balance of power in favor of the coalition and the traveler
Idk if this is already people theorize or if it's confirmed yet, but I'm pretty sure the Traveler is using up to protect it so that the ghosts can regenerate it's shell and prepare itself to run away from the darkness. Which gives reason as to why the drifter hates the light so much, and the fallen/hive love it so much. The fallen are awestruck by its gift of immortality and the hive (primarily savathuun) use it to make them stronger. Which would explain why the hive are in the solar system to get it back, and why savathuun uses the darkness. She probably uses it to as a means to an end, where she kidnaps Rhulks ship and keeps it in her throne world to guide her in her conquest to reaquire the traveler.
Bit off topic, maybe we can look at Rasputin Sub-Minds kinda like how Osiris had copies of himself in the infinite forest. They are still him in essence (or to a certain degree) but have enough self-awareness/autonomy to make their own decisions and perform actions/tasks they were created to do.
Two ideas for Loki Crown. One, Trickster King. The traveler could/will trick humanity and that's why it's called that. Two, Savathun. Savathun is a trickster god and some gods are viewed as royalty, therefore, it could be referencing this. I am curious what everyone else thinks.
If you go back to your video titled "Is Rasputin dead or can he be revived? How did The City react to his failure?" dated 15 June 2020, the Hollow Worlds fusion rifle mentions Rasputin and a Stronghold plan.
It's inside the Traveler: Rasputin bunker on Io during Terra forming. Rasputin figured out some way to interact/speak to the traveler. This is where Rasputin figured out the Traveler was leaving. Inside of this "space" Rasputin has a full backup/personality of the core Rasputin up to the arrival of the fleet. I say "space" because it would be much like a cloud or domain made manifest. Splice our way in through one place, end up inside the Traveler, start planning for lightfall with a more direct communication.
I think it's important to note that we don't know what the original purpose of Nefele Stronghold was, but it could be that it was repurposed at a later time, and then completely wiped from memory. My theory is that is where Felspring is being kept, and Rasputin sacrificed himself and saved Felwinter's memory instead of his own.
The reference to Loki may be referencing how Loki instigates the events of Ragnarok. Loki tricks the brother of Baldur, the supposedly invincible god of Light, by fashioning a dart from mistletoe and encouraging him to throw it at his brother. A crown could be a symbolic identifier of the Traveler as a deity. Maybe Rasputin figured out a weapon that could take the Traveler down permanently.
Well, one possible interpretation of Loki's crown is, after embarrassing the gods/turning against them he was bound inside (perhaps binding the traveler to) the earth, with a serpent overhead, dripping poison. Though it did not fall directly on him. It fell into a bowl, held by Loki's wife, but the bowl was constantly filled, and had to be poured out, onto Loki's eyes, rendering him blind. the bowl could serve as Loki's "crown" as it rests above his head. As such, I think there are many ways it could be interpreted. The traveler could be the serpent, poisoning humanity, blinding them (perhaps with light) or, the traveler could be Loki, bound to the earth by whatever Rasputin did, and kept 'blind' by the actions of the crown.
I swear I remember a grimoire card hinting that Rasputin did attack the Traveller and prevent it from leaving. However, I think this was retconned at some point in D2 along with the other warminds like Charlemagne (being separate warminds, not fragments or subminds/systems of Rasputin).
I'ma guess that with the recent story in season of Seraph, that this is the Neo city on Neptune and the Clouds striders are what this is talking about, and that colony.
That is a great guess at what the crown means. It got its nature from human literature so Rasputin could be a representation of that. The duality of man.
I hope we get a season this involving Ana Bray and Rasputin, maybe even going back to D2 Mars space now that Mars has returned in some form and fashion. Can only imagine what the D2 Mars location might look like now since it was consumed by the darkness for a period of time
Adding on to the "It's on Enceladus" theory some have mentioned - Enceladus (please, correct me if I'm wrong) was leader of the Titans (the *children* of Gaia/Earth) who fell in the battle of the giants. Herein, the light and the darkness are the giants, i.e. - Rasputin fell as the black fleet rose to combat the traveler. Enceladus is described as the titan who "sighs through his grave". What if Rasputin is "sighing" to us from the grave? He purposely went through a great deal of trouble to remain hidden and wouldn't be found unless he wanted to be. What if he modeled Nafele as a digital analog of a Hive throne world, and is dropping proverbial breadcrumbs to us, knowing we've now navigated multiple throne worlds? Additionally, Enceladus is a moon of Saturn - God of Agriculture and Time. Perhaps the "wounds" we see - 'out of time' visions of corn fields - are yet more breadcrumbs? Or perhaps the Witness opened these wounds using the relic in order to find the stronghold and, as Byf says, is aware Rasputin and Nefele still exists?
I think if the stronghold is a physical place it could possibly be the only facility capable of creating a new generation of warminds. It fits the theme of Nephele protecting her childen, and making new warminds would probably be a cut above Ana's paygrade, hence why she doesn't know anything about it
Has anyone looked up the anagrams? Destiny loves it's anagrams. Some of them include "flee golden thorns" and "fell ghost neron" or "fell godson nether" sounds like a great name for an EXO body for Rasputin
There was a lore tab from something this season regarding Ana Bray and Rasputin if you haven't seen it. More whispers of her waking the warmind from its slumber.
How much do you guys want to bet that Nefele Stronhold is the dungeon next season? I mean, we just happen to learn about it now, from the wounds on Mars. and the Witness was trying to learn about it too potentially. My bet is the Witness is in there right now, and we're going to run a Dungeon in there to take it back from the Witness.
Loki facilitating the death of Balder (Norse God of Light - in this metaphor the Lsst City would be Breidablik) is most commonly cited as the inciting event for Ragnarok, the death of the gods and the remaking of the world. By killing the Traveler, Rasputin would be starting a war between gods and cause profound change in the universe. LOKI CROWN seems to be a simple reference to this fact, that by taking that opening shot (and if the weapons he would use to do this feature any MISTLETOE references then you can basically call this confirmed) he would be assume the role of Loki, thus crowning himself to that title.
It's on Enceladus: Rasputin's personal "cloud" platform (e.g. see related entomology of the name and personage of Nephele at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephele) initially used to develop experimental versions of Rasputin and warsat technology then later used by Rasputin as a potential honeypot for alien cyberattack. This installation was most likely the initial contact point of The Darkness' invasion during The Collapse. Cayde-6, with his human history of initially being one of Clovis Bray's closest bodyguards, would have some rudimentary association with Rasputin. Cayde would have either memory traces of Rasputin's secret installations or would have rediscovered this information as a result of Cayde's penchant for creating caches for himself both for emergencies and also as external memory devices. If true, the Enceladus installation also would have been a perfect location for developing exos compatible for Rasputin's SERAPH protocol. Ana, becoming a guardian after the fact of The Collapse, would have no memory of this. In fact, she may very well have instigated the shutdown herself during The Collapse as a means of preventing Rasputin's network, assets, and personal exo's from being hacked and pivoted by The Darkness. I could be wrong, yet Bungie has proven itself to be a bit "on the nose" when involving mythologic names and references.
Alright I am gonna go with a way out there crackpot theory. Everyone is related NEFELE with physical clouds like the Jovian planets, but what if it refers to the Oort Cloud? If Rasputin wanted to hide an extremely important cache of data or resources, why would you keep it near the system. I could be something like a space station deep in the Oort Cloud away, from civilization, where no one would think anything of value would be. If we want to keep with the NEFELE theme, the station could be operated by golems ,like Felwinter , that work to safeguard whatever Rasputin has deemed so valuable. I give this theory a 99.99% chance of being wrong, but speculating is fun.
So some of the locations I was thinking for the Stronghold would be Pluto and/or it's moon, an object in the asteroid belt, or a comet/"comet" that orbits the sun on a VERY long time frame. I'm leaning more towards an asteroid belt or Pluto. The Asteroid Belt, as you know, is between Mars and Jupiter, so close to Mars but still a good distance out. It's close enough to Mars to defend easily, yet far enough away to avoid prying eyes. It has a lot of objects that can easily hide something Rasputin wanted hidden, and it would be a VERY arduous task to search. Then there's Pluto and it's moon Charon (using the term "moon" very loosely here because of Pluto's status). Pluto is VERY far out, orbits the Sun on a plane slightly askew to the rest of the solar system, is small, cold, and has an orbiting body definitely big enough to hide some very important stuff. It was out past the "farthest place the Traveler touched" but most definitely would have been explored by man and Rasputin. Those are my guesses.
I’m thinking it’s out in the Jovian’s. Either a moon of Neptune or Uranus more specifically. The additional idea of Nefele Stronghold, an old mining colony called Hyperion, and Efrideet’s pacifist colony all being the same place makes sense. To borrow from my favorite (late) Science-fiction/space opera writer, it’s really easy to hide a bunch of metal structures and power sources on a nickel-iron asteroid or moon in the strong electromagnetic fields of turbulent gas giants
Random guess, but what if NEPHELE STONGHOLD was hidden not in a colony near a has giant but in the gas of a gas giant? Where better to hide such a place than a constant deadly super hurricane? I'm mainly guessing this based on the "Nephele is a cloud nymph", and it's a long shot, but worth mentioning.
Cool idea reminds me of the kessel run in Star wars kinda idea taking a special route through the storm would get you to the planet or stronghold in this case
yeah like with in a nebula which is the roman name for Nephele and Nephele is the mother of the Centarus. sooo yeah
I was thinking a satellite, but this might be true too, new destination by the dreadnaught?
Jupiter here we come!
@@joestout6032 isn’t that exegol in rise of skywalker we’re you needed to follow a certain path to find it
"It's on Enceladus." We still don't know what "it" is, (to the best of my knowledge.) Perhaps Cayde mistook Nefele's Stronghold for the Deep Stone Crypt. Perhaps he wasn't even talking to Petra about the Crypt but was talking about the Stronghold.
This was the first thing I thought of when the ideas started being shared.
This would explain why Cayde was talking to the people behind it. Clovis, as far as we knew, was long dead. But Ana Bray? If anyone figured out she faked her death, it would have been Cayde
I was literally about to comment the same thing.
Nah, "it" was deep stone crypt. Destiny had been planning the deep stone crypt since 2012. There's some early sketches of maps that are identical to Europa and the concept art are nearly identical as well (comparing Enceladus to Europa). Europa was likely to be a destiny 3 location but things got scrapped and reused last minute during the Bungie/Activision split. There's a great video detailing this on TH-cam.
Found the video for ya
th-cam.com/video/E5jvbZWmdJM/w-d-xo.html
Given Nefele’s relation to Zeus, I believe it isn’t unreasonable to put the stronghold’s location somewhere around Jupiter. Alternatively it could be on Ixion, out in the Kuiper belt.
Ixion?
@@Lady_Evelyn Person who shares the story of Nefele's creation. Short-ish version is: Zeus invited Ixion to dinner and took pity on him as his case of madness was caused by him killing his own father-in-law; however Ixion lusted after Hera and seeing this disrespect after Zeus had taken pity upon him and he laid a trap. He created Nefele in the image of Hera to entrap Ixion and it worked and Zeus blasted him from heaven with a lightening bolt and had Hermes tie him to a burning wheel to suffer for his actions.
There is reports in game of Cabal interested in things around Neptune and Ixion is basically a dwarf planet that's in the Kuiper belt near Neptune.
Anyone who didn’t play season of the worthy, byf’s skate into the bunker at 14:05 was a thing of beauty. The architects claimed many rezzes that season.
What if Rasputin put the “cloud” reference to both a literal and figurative sense? What if Nefele Stronghold is a “Cloud storage” facility for everything Rasputin has, and he placed it “in the clouds”? INSIDE one of the four Jovian planets: Jupiter, Saturn (which would REALLY be interesting, considering we still got Oryx’s corpse casually floating around inside that planet), Uranus, or Neptune. My bet’s on the Clouds of Saturn, and we have to fight off the Lucent Hive as they try to recover Oryx’s body, and end up stumbling into the Nefele Stronghold
Interesting bet
That would be sick. I’m hoping we interact with something related to oryx’s body in the future
Why did it make laugh imagining oryxes dead body just flying about inside saturn
This would've been a heck of a setup for a raid if we weren't gonna get a D1 raid for this year. Wish we'd have another Forsaken kinda thing with one or two original raids during the seasonal stories.
@@plugone.1217 That’s probably going to be the set up for Season . 18.
So you know how the Witness basically yeeted the Hive from under the Traveler’s nose? Yeah, I have a feeling the Traveler is about to pay it back with Rasputin
_charge Warmind nukes with Light and eradicates Black fleet with them_
@_DannyPhantom_ felwinter 2.0 anyone? 🤣
@_DannyPhantom_ that would be awesome. New Hunter Vanguard lol.
@_DannyPhantom_ so felwinter? Lmfao
@_DannyPhantom_ all I know is he'll instantly be one of the most powerful beings around. Rasputin with the light? FUGETABOUTIT
Nephele, being a cloud nymph, and trying to save her children tells us exactly what that stronghold is and where to find it: A place for Rasputin to hide backups because he sussed out that the Witness was going to destroy his primaries; and where better to hide it than inside a gas giant. Perhaps Bungie will finally let us fly our ships into our local gas giant to go find Rasputin?
Sounds likely.
Lest goooo warmind lore
Maybe a felwinter backup is in nefele strong hold cause that'd be cool and emotional to see saladin reunite with his old comrade
It probably wouldn’t actually be him, it would be the pre-resurrection version.
Felwinter might be an interesting “Anakin Skywalker” to Saladin’s Obi-wan.
Felwinter breaking heads with cabal shock troops as backup sounds hilarious
Yo, whose saladin? I only know a bracus forge.
@@charleeknicholls it’s Valus Forge now, get it right.
@@yourewrong9028 you right, you right.
With the neptunian city in Lightfall. I think next season will see Rasuptin reawaken and have us defend his bunkers or warsats so that we can piece together where nephele stronghold will be and find it before the witness does.
Gold medal for the prediction here.
I have a feeling the Nefele Stronghold may be the “cloud” in which Rasputin’s copy is stored. In case he is compromised by the darkness/witness. As such, my prediction is that by next season, we may have to go find a copy of Rasputin at this Stronghold. Not sure what it could be or where, but one of the Witnesses minions may try to stop us. I’d love it if Bungie made it to where Rasputin, as an Exo, Rasputin was captured and we’d need to rescue him. They could then recreate the original mission scrapped from D1. Which would be great, look what they did with Crow. Now, all he needs to do is say: “Out here in the wild, this is how we talk”.
Another thing to consider is that Nefele kinda sounds like Nifleheim, which is one of the nine realms in Norse mythology. And, it’s characterized as being mostly ice and cold, so my bet is that it could be somewhere on Europa because there’s probably more Clovis Bray facilities there.
@@M0b1us_118 Nephilim is also a term in Christianity used for angel/demon hybrids. Beings whom are shunned from Heaven or both Heaven and hell. Perhaps Rasputin has everything needed for what Ana is trying to do, including a backup of himself there? Ironically, Ana, and her family had a role in creating Rasputin. Even more ironic, Ana may have rediscovered her role in Rasputin’s creation through Elsie. I’d wish we had some more to read her thoughts in reacting to these revelations. What If Ana used the Relic to learn of the Stronghold from her past life?
I think its pretty apparent given what we know now that Rasputin didn't shoot the Traveler. The writers have hinted that Savathun had something to do with the Traveler not leaving the Sol system (with the deal she made with the farmer), and while you could say that this may not be true (due to it being a Savathun story), its been almost confirmed throughout most of the season that the reason that the Traveler didn't leave wasn't because Rasputin shot at it or damaged it on some capacity, but rather Savathun being deceitful as always.
The song that those people sang, the alpha Lupi lore card mentions that Traveller heard her children crying out, while it was on Io. Nothing Rasputin could do would stop the Traveller, it already attempted to battle the Black fleet at the edge of the solar system to no avail, so attacking the Traveller whose power registers very similar to the Darkness might agitate another being with paracausal power on Earth which would probably not be the most logical thing to do. There's a powerful fleet advancing and you want to attack a being that has powers similar to it, might be digging your own grave.
We don’t know the full story. We have hints to the narrative during the collapse that Savathun and other entities/variables were responsible for keeping the Traveler stranded on Earth. But there could be multiple layers to “surviving the truth”. 1: the light is not for humanity alone. 2: the Light does not make a saint. 3: Even with the Light, Savathun and the Lucent Brood still want humanity extinct. Finally 4: The final layer of the truth we may need to survive, is that the Traveler may not have “saved” humanity out of faith and good will towards humanity. But rather, out of necessity for survival. An immortal army that had no past identities so they would blindly protect the Traveler until it healed enough to leave again. If these theories to the Traveler’s motives are proven true, it may mean it was never on our side, it doesn’t care about us, and it may only care for its own selfish survival.
About the location of Nefele Stronghold
We are talking about Rasputin who is one of if not the most intellegent being in sol so i think Nefele Stronghold is hidden in 1 of 2 different loctaion "types".
"Type" 1: its hidden practically in plain sight so when you search for it you disregard the location cuz it would be too obvious
"type" 2: its really well hidden. And i mean the kind of hidden that nobody would find in like a million years. I mean we are talking about Rasputin he is supposed to be able to predict threats that nobody else could and i think he would be able to think of a place like that
Note that Seraphim Vault and the surrounding underground facilities are of the hidden in plain sight type, Rasputin surely has experience with that type
Let me be completely honest, I love the idea of Rasputin and him as a character. But, Rasputin has disappointed me so many times, he might as well be a senile old man. Seriously he's hyped up to be a superweapon protector of humanity, yet he looses almost every single time he does anything. He's essentially bungie's "oh look how strong our villain is; they beat down Rasputin!!" BUT EVERYTHING BEATS RASPUTIN.
He's the Vegeta of Destiny and it's a damn shame.
I think that is kind of the point though. In two ways in fact. First, He represents the absolute best that the Golden Age could offer and in some cases he has been a threat to us. However it also shows just how strong that we are, in the fact that he sometimes needs our help b/c he just isn't good enough to do it himself, he needs a light bearer.
Exactly. "Look at our superpowerful ai character, he's the most powerful piece of tech from the golden age" yet his ass gets clapped by everything thrown at him. He is literally useless
@@AristophMarloque yes movie vegeta. You worded it perfectly
@@slorbonmyknorb777 that's the point though, if humanity's technology alone was enough to stop the witness and his armies then guardians literally would not exist......he is a representation of human advancement and how that is utterly useless against being of a paracasual nature.
I am reminded of Savathun's 2 truths and a lie, in particular the one that The Last City is not actually the last city. Perhaps it was a city Rasputin protected at the time of the collapse and has kept hidden even from the rest of humanity?
Rasputin's subminds sound similar to something from an element from a 40k necron book.
You have Rasputin as the core entity, but there are a series of smaller partitions. They each are essentially a 'lesser' copy of him, but with a particular specialty to lessen the load on the core mind. They have a degree of independence, being able to run subroutines and protocols on their own, but are still part of the greater system.
The Necron character had 4 subminds in the forms of Combative, Doctrinal, Analytical, and Xenology. I imagine Warminds would work in a somewhat similar way, with certain minds having particular functions or permissions.
It reminds me of the Alpha AI in Rooster Teeth’s Red VS Blue series it was fragmented into different parts of the mind like logic, rage, and memory.
That would open the door to the other Warmind names that were supposed to exist. Charlemagne, joyeuse, Voluspa etc.
@@jeffmachem2702 Medusa.
Another parallel would be the AI minds in Evangelion
Oltyx is a baller
Considering the connotations Nephele has with clouds and gases, i dont think it would be a far stretch to say maybe it is a station fo some kind on one of our local gas giants i.e Uranus, Saturn, or Jupiter. I think it would be very plausible, i mean there is no better place to hide than in plain sight.
My money's on Neptune, mainly because of this one idle dialogue segment from Crow in the H.E.L.M. "Huh...Cabal cruisers keep returning to Neptune's orbital path. Wonder if they're hiding something in its gravity well." Could be nothing, but I thought I'd mention it.
Wasn't there some sort of lore entry where Ana Bray was exploring near a gas giant, and there was like a bunch of evil Exos and stuff? I can't remember any of the details but I think Ana bray, and by extension Rasputin, have been near gas giants before
@@ninjathis3009 I haven't heard of that
Oort Cloud maybe?
@@YoGabaGabagool My first guess aswell, beyond the solar system but still much closer than the next.
Nefele Stronghold could be on Europa, someone at Bungie did say "We aren't done with the DSC" (paraphrased). I think that if they were to add in the the Stronghold, it'd be within the DSC if it isn't in any new location that comes with Lightfall or Final Shape. I have a strong feeling it's coming within the WQ year, but idk when until we confirm any of the years future seasons.
I would love a “Preservation” style mission inside DSC as the season on-boarding mission and going somewhere Clovis probably didn’t want us to explore. He likes portals, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he hid one after the crypt security encounter maybe leading to the stronghold on a different planet or in a space station or an abandoned ship.
Nephele hooked up with Ixion and gave birth to the Centaurs. In space, Centaurs are small planetary bodies which exist around the outer planets. For example, Nessus is a Centaur. It's theorized that Saturn's moon Phoebe is also a Centaur captured by Saturn's gravity. Phoebe's brother is Cronus, the Greek equivalent to Saturn, who overthrew his father and ruled during the "Golden Age". I would bet the Nephele Stronghold is near Saturn, possibly on Phoebe itself. The Hive have had an interest in Rasputin as well, with Rasputin originally having been an Exo we would have rescued from the Hive Dreadnought. While that never happened, Rasputin remains of interest to the Hive, with Xol personally attacking him during the collapse, and the Hive Dreadnought does remain in orbit of Saturn. I would put my money on the system around Saturn being of major importance soon.
I really hope we find out next season. I love Rasputin content and need me some more Warmind themed gear.
I wish more people would stop taking the term "stronghold" so literally and just think maybe Rasputin's "Nefele Stronghold" is literally him storing himself IN THE CLOUD. It's cloud storage, ffs! He has to have realized that it is impossible for a single location to be safe from the Darkness. The only way to ensure survival when facing an enemy of such power is by distributing himself to EVERYWHERE. It's the same concept as Dead Orbit, honestly. If we're stuck in a single system, we are extremely vulnerable to extinction. The best way to ensure humanity survives is to spread out, so that there is no single point of failure, no single event that could wipe all of us out. The Nefele Stronghold isn't a single literal stronghold. It's not some crazy hidden bunker in some specific location. He has spread himself out to a degree that makes it impossible for him to be completely erased, because no matter how thorough the cleansing, something will survive somewhere and be the seed to reconstruct his systems.
That is an excellent theory
It does feel like we are abt to get something to do with ana and rasputin again real soon, i say maybe within the next season or 2 unless they decide to do it in the next big expansion, honestly i wouldnt be surprised if it was on Enceladus, since we never knew what cayde meant was on there and it wouldnt surprise me if this stronghold is also there
Since Bungie seems to be really on the "tying up loose threads" kick, this Nephele stronghold might be a really good opportunity for them to retcon "It's on Enceladus." Super plausible though linking a Rasputin location to Petra is a bit of a reach I think.
I think it's on Hyperion. It's implied as the farthest location humanity reached and has been hinted 1 maybe twice giving it the freedom to be written as anything
Hyperion?
Does this mean Handsome Jack is returning? Lol
It also doesn't necessarily have to be habitable/where humans have been it could be hidden much further out than expected
@@Lady_Evelyn Hyperion is one of Saturn's Farthest moons and has been mentioned on Titan and in the season of the Hunt.
Personally, I would love to see a new social space that's like a golden age Colony built out of an old Exodus ship. Like it's a new mission with only question marks as the name and description. And when we fly into the planets atmosphere we see a bunch of warsats in orbit and when we get to the colony we have to fight through Rasputin frames and shit. And once we get into the city we find a submind and we have to fight like Siva built Rasputin frames. It'll probably never happen but it can't hurt to hope for it
Nefele was a cloud created by Zeus in the image of Hera. Her purpose was to be a decoy to see if Ixion, who lusted after Hera, could restrain himself (he couldnt). Nefele would later have two children with Athamas who would later be targeted by Ino, their stepmother. Ino would trick the farmers of the village into thinking that Nefele's children had to be sacrificed to prevent a disaster of famine. Nefele saved them by sending a flying golden ram to take them to King Aeetes who would keep them safe. they were told not to look down as they escaped, but the child Helle looked down and fell off and drowned in the ocean. the remaining child made it to safety and then was allowed to marry King Aeetes' daughter princess Chalciope.
Nefele: possible decoy copy of Rasputin? humanity?
Athamas: Darkness itself?
Ixion and Ino: Rhulk? the witness?
Nefele's children: Felwinter before they got the light as well as one other golem who escaped?
King Aeetes: an unexpected ally, maybe even savathun?
Nefele Stronghold: some kind of decoy stronghold meant to attract the attention of rhulk, the witness, and others like them in order to draw attention away from "Hera" which presumably could be the traveler, rasputin's most important subsystem, humanity, or something else considered important to rasputin or humanity.
maybe the reason we dont have record of nefele stronghold is because what we know of as rasputin may be nefele itself, and the true rasputin could be elsewhere.
My bet is that nephew stronghold could have the information of rasputins original framework witch could be terrifying if the witness squires it since it could mean them creating their own rasputin or even multiple that could be potential even more dangerous.
Having the Stronghold being a digital space would be interesting and also be a reason for Mithrax and the Splicers to help with incursions being the seasonal activity, delving into the Stronghold to rescue or recover parts of Rasputin needed by Ana to prepare his frame to work.
man, I always get excited whenever Rasputin begins to show up in the spotlight. I'm hoping a future season lets us rebuild The Tyrant or at least explore a new location, like Nefele Stronghold. Also that Nova build is insane and I must know its secrets.
Fun fact to those unaware: When Byf is talking about Loki Crown, the less obvious part of "crown" could also be a reference to the older usage of the term "crowning", which means to hit an individual on the top of the head with force
My personal suspicions on where Nefele Stronghold; The myth of Nefele features the goddess trying to hide her children *in the clouds*. Taken literally, perhaps it could be somewhere like the European Aerial Zone, or maybe at an immensely high mountain peak. Or even wilder, it's a ship of some sort - constantly mobile - making it immensely difficult to find.
Or we can take cloud to mean *the cloud*, as in a digital space similar to the internet, perhaps created by a big brain Warmind foreseeing a threat capable of seeing all of it's bunkers and vaults, and attacking and destroying them. There is nothing more hidden than something invisible, untouchable, literally undetectable. Nefele Stronghold being a cloud-adjacent location containing his 'children' sounds very much like the perfect way to describe a place where Rasputin is keeping back ups of himself, or other Siddharta Golems.
And what makes it even more difficult to find is, how do you search for something on a network of computers you cannot access? It's like trying to guess the location of a single shoebox inside an entire apartment building you've never entered - and then you're told the shoebox is capable of moving to other replicas of that exact same apartment building. How many people will even realize it's a digital place rather than a physical one? It will take ages to search every conceivable physical location. It's like the Vex network; we only knew about it on paper until we were given the exact tools needed to enter it.
I suspect it's a digital location. It then raises the question of if Guardians can enter it, and if we'll need to. Perhaps a strike. Perhaps a goddamn dungeon. Who knows?
Well if clouds are related to the name, that would suggest one of the gas giants in Sol. Could be deep within the cloud layer, or if one wanted to keep such a place safe it would be on the move constantly perhaps within the eye of Jupiter's Red spot, the most powerful storm there is.
I think the loki part of loki crown has more to do with the myth in which Loki kills Baldur, who was a god beloved by all. I think it has less to do with how loki killed baldur, and it's simply meant to symbolize Loki (Rasputin) killing Baldur (traveler) who was beloved by all
Haven't seen this mentioned much, but if Nefele is a cloud nymph, the most significantly relevant place in the system is the Oort Cloud, which basically consists of trans-Neptunian objects, ie Pluto or beyond. We're talking hundreds of AUs out, where objects orbit the sun only once every few thousand years. There's a lot of small objects out there, and other than Nessus and the Leviathan, we've never been out that far. The Golden Agers barely made it out that far if Exodus Black is any indication, so it'd be really out of the way. Also lines up with the bit about Efrideet's pacifist colony beyond the known edges of the system. Just a thought.
I think nefele stronghold will be a tower or reef like location that will be in the Kuiper belt, potentially on a dwarf planet such as makemake or haumea, as both of those names are named after gods of fertility or creation. That idea of fertility or creation could have the idea of protecting children with a safe place for prosperity.
This kind of lore, the stuff that involves important characters and story arcs, but is still very much steeped in mystery is probably my favorite kind of lore. I just love the feeling of mystery you get from reading it. (probably because it reminds me of the Destiny 1 days, when we didn't know nearly as much about the broader universe, and the lore wasn't being fleshed out like it is today.)
So this is 3 months old, but maybe the Nephele Stronghold is a code for the city on Neptune that we will explore during Lightfall. Or maybe a seperate area on Neptune.
Your christian analogy for the crown part of loki crown is in the same idea, but it's still most likely solely norse based, as loki was imprisoned and made to wear a crown of venomous serpents around his head that constantly dripped venom on his face, disfiguring him.
Coming back to this video after the most recent reveal stream:
What if Neo Muna is Nefele Stronghold? I'm not knowledgeable enough to point at exact threads and connect everything, but I think it's a thought worth exploring- speculatively, at least. It was emphasized during the stream that we know nothing about this place and that they have technologies far beyond any known places in Sol up until this point. Additionally, if it was the reason why the initial Collapse failed, wouldn't it make even more sense that the Witness shows up there first? To do away with what foiled them the first time? It could very well just be that the Neptune colony is the closest to the edge of Sol (and if we apply Occam's Razor, that is the sound option), but it's still an interesting thought to entertain.
Hey Byf, you mention that you don't think Efrideet's pacifist community is somewhere that many people have been, but I kind of disagree. Shiro-4 mentioned that he was shocked that the commune could stay hidden in plain sight for so long, which suggests that this IS someplace where people have traveled often and yet missed. Obviously I could be wrong, but just my two cents.
With a voice this smooth, Byf must have a larynx made of velvet
We should all be very glad that Golden Age Ana Bray fed this Warmind with not only knowledge, but literature. This guy is over a thousand years in the future and is still naming stuff after long forgotten deity’s or religious symbols.
Well if we're talking about secret locations the obvious one to me is Enceladus. One of Caydes last messages had a secret code for Petra simply saying "It's on Enceladus"
I definitely hope we’ll see something in the lore about Enceladus. Not sure I’d put all my chips down on it being the Stronghold, but who knows. It’d be something Cayde and Petra would be investigating… who knows, maybe that’s where the Distributary singularity ended up…
I wonder: if NEFELE STRONGHOLD is indeed a digital domain, could we potentially use Splicer techniques to enter it?
at most interact with it, not quite sure if it's the same type of information domain like the vex (as in a simpler plane, rather than in full HD 3D space).
Also bet that Rasputin has means to kick us out by spawning an Exploder right on top of us... or a Sparrow.
Slight point of order with the LOKI CROWN tangent: Ghosts were unprecedented at the time of the Collapse. As such, even with RASPUTIN's ability to simulate outside-context scenarios, there should have been no evidence that such was even possible.
It could’ve been as simple as a contingency to not allow the Traveler’s immense power to pass to another race etc? Kind of ‘If humanity can’t have it no one can’?
I feel like discounting the reef is possibly a mistake. While the reef didn’t exist, the asteroids it is built on did. Where better to hide something precious than in one of thousands of seemingly uninhabitable space rocks.
The asteroids also destroy ships that aren't carefull so it has a natural defence system so can be more covert.
Hey Byf, I want to say I really found your Loki Crown connection very interesting, and I would agree with the theological connection you made GG man!!!
Gonna try and put my theory here :
- "Nephele stronghold" referes to a cloud storage facility, where C.B or Rasputin has hid either backup copies of the warmind protocols OR where the "sidarta golem" project is hidden. Could also be both.
- Its location is either gonna be on a gaz giant, like Neptune or Uranus, or far beyond the Keiper belt.
- The pacifist guardians probably (and unknowingly) built their colony on top of the facility
- The Witness will attack the complex/colony, hoping to find clues on the collapse OR to corrupt Rasputin against us
- The next/future season involving Rasputin is also gonna put the pacifists and lady Efrideet in the delicate position where they are gonna need to choose between their ideals and their survival.
Since Bungie likes to put moral dilemma in the core of (some) story driven content and including the changes coming to the Iron banner playlist, its one of the way I would see a return of Efrideet in a future season, while also bringing a conclusion to the Rasputin/engram story. Just my thoughs.
my favorite pet moments are every time my German Shepherd mix, Thespis, chases flies around the living room or lays down on my legs or feet. She's just the most precious idiot
Love how ana just magically appears in witch queen campaign where noone new would even know who she is in last meeting in tower
I just kind of hope the space of the activity (a Warmind platform, Nefele stronghold, whatever) brings an activity similar to Warmind bunkers. Running daily bunker completions was how I kept my sanity during lockdown, so they have special meaning to me.
Imagine how awesome of a season this whole thing would make where the raid or dungeon would be to journey inside the stronghold kind of like dsc but to help to restore Rasputins power
What if the neon city in light fall was originally fephele stronghold and Rasputin set up a place where humanity could survive and wiped his memory of it to prevent anyone from finding it
seeing this post Lightfall, with Nefele being the Nymph of Clouds, could also have been a reference to the Cloudstriders who protect the safe place of Neomuna
Loki's crown maybe a reference to the strap Odin used to tie Loki's head down to a table for eternity, unable to leave and disappear again with an unbreakable tether, for betraying the gods.... well Odin anyway! But that's just my thoughts and paraphrased a lot
Just a thought... Nefele is where Effridett is.
Now there's a thought
Nefele (in Greek mythology) was the mother of Nessus.
The Nefele Stronghold might not be a place, but a thing.
The Exodus ships carried SIVA to help teraform and colonize (birth/bring life like a mother does) these planet/moon locations
During last years Halloween event we got lore leading to SIVA possibly being located in the lost sector near Failsafe and a huge battle to secure it.
The strafe on that knight at 21:44 took me out of the lore completely 😂 I want to be like that guy.
My random “this would be cool” guess is that Nephele Stronghold is on Saturn. I don’t buy the “it’s talking about the digital cloud” thing as Destiny very rarely uses modern terms for technology used by characters, preferring to use larger more descriptive scientific terms. A physical link to a clouded area seems much more likely to me.
Saturn is a really fascinating idea to me with a cloud city (like StarWars or Jupiter Ascending) perpetual thunderstorms providing power, large dark Blade Runner aesthetics from an old golden age facility. Maybe a frozen oryx cameo…
As far as “it’s too close to Titan”. It’s likely a top secret facility inside one of the least hospitable places in the solar system that I don’t think proximity would be much of an issue. Putting a top secret test facility/bunker in Saturn’s atmosphere doesn’t seem like something out of reach for Rasputin and too big to keep top-secret. Saturn’s a big planet with its own natural radar disruption. I just don’t think you can count it out just yet.
Idk, just my dumb fan fiction worthy idea.
Nefele Stronghold will most likely hold a Pristine copy of Rasputin, and if the fragment JuJu rescued and Ana Bray holds core code that this pristine copy could use to BECOME Rasputin, an active functioning Rasputin, that could THEN be housed in an Exo Frame?????? I suspect a bit of traveling back to the time of the Collapse might also be on the cards to solve this mystery.
Rasputin’s behavior in the past suggests that he was very careful especially with copies of himself and kept any bunkers that housed those copies secret until he wanted them revealed. The Stronghold would be somewhere inconspicuous but accessible and I don’t think it’s on any of the known locations we’ve been to. My guess would be that it’s on one of the moons of Neptune on either Triton or Proteus.
My biggest bet about Nefele stronghold is that this place is facility where Rasputin has stored some data about the black fleet during the collapse which he could now use to create weapons that are able to damge the black fleet. This possibility also shows why the Witness is interested in this place so much, because if Rasputin is able to counter the black fleet the witness would lose the enormous advantage that is the fact that the blaclfleet is practicaly indestructible at the moment, grealty changing the balance of power in favor of the coalition and the traveler
Lightfall's setting with the cloudstriders sounds like a good location for this stronghold
All of this, as well as the lore from the grand overture, really points towards a rasputin season sometime soon.
I love the bouncing off that byf does with Myelin, two best lore creators out there
Hits different post Lightfall announcement. Cloudstriders/nephele, clearly there is a relation there.
Idk if this is already people theorize or if it's confirmed yet, but I'm pretty sure the Traveler is using up to protect it so that the ghosts can regenerate it's shell and prepare itself to run away from the darkness. Which gives reason as to why the drifter hates the light so much, and the fallen/hive love it so much. The fallen are awestruck by its gift of immortality and the hive (primarily savathuun) use it to make them stronger. Which would explain why the hive are in the solar system to get it back, and why savathuun uses the darkness. She probably uses it to as a means to an end, where she kidnaps Rhulks ship and keeps it in her throne world to guide her in her conquest to reaquire the traveler.
Bit off topic, maybe we can look at Rasputin Sub-Minds kinda like how Osiris had copies of himself in the infinite forest. They are still him in essence (or to a certain degree) but have enough self-awareness/autonomy to make their own decisions and perform actions/tasks they were created to do.
Two ideas for Loki Crown. One, Trickster King. The traveler could/will trick humanity and that's why it's called that. Two, Savathun. Savathun is a trickster god and some gods are viewed as royalty, therefore, it could be referencing this. I am curious what everyone else thinks.
If you go back to your video titled "Is Rasputin dead or can he be revived? How did The City react to his failure?" dated 15 June 2020, the Hollow Worlds fusion rifle mentions Rasputin and a Stronghold plan.
Thanks byf. This video helped me through the first 30 min of my jog.
Absolutely crazy theory. The warmind made an entire planet for the stronghold
It's inside the Traveler: Rasputin bunker on Io during Terra forming. Rasputin figured out some way to interact/speak to the traveler. This is where Rasputin figured out the Traveler was leaving. Inside of this "space" Rasputin has a full backup/personality of the core Rasputin up to the arrival of the fleet. I say "space" because it would be much like a cloud or domain made manifest. Splice our way in through one place, end up inside the Traveler, start planning for lightfall with a more direct communication.
I think it's important to note that we don't know what the original purpose of Nefele Stronghold was, but it could be that it was repurposed at a later time, and then completely wiped from memory.
My theory is that is where Felspring is being kept, and Rasputin sacrificed himself and saved Felwinter's memory instead of his own.
I misread the title as Neefle Stronghold and got a solid chuckle out of it.
The reference to Loki may be referencing how Loki instigates the events of Ragnarok. Loki tricks the brother of Baldur, the supposedly invincible god of Light, by fashioning a dart from mistletoe and encouraging him to throw it at his brother.
A crown could be a symbolic identifier of the Traveler as a deity.
Maybe Rasputin figured out a weapon that could take the Traveler down permanently.
Well, one possible interpretation of Loki's crown is, after embarrassing the gods/turning against them he was bound inside (perhaps binding the traveler to) the earth, with a serpent overhead, dripping poison. Though it did not fall directly on him. It fell into a bowl, held by Loki's wife, but the bowl was constantly filled, and had to be poured out, onto Loki's eyes, rendering him blind. the bowl could serve as Loki's "crown" as it rests above his head. As such, I think there are many ways it could be interpreted. The traveler could be the serpent, poisoning humanity, blinding them (perhaps with light) or, the traveler could be Loki, bound to the earth by whatever Rasputin did, and kept 'blind' by the actions of the crown.
I swear I remember a grimoire card hinting that Rasputin did attack the Traveller and prevent it from leaving. However, I think this was retconned at some point in D2 along with the other warminds like Charlemagne (being separate warminds, not fragments or subminds/systems of Rasputin).
This all hits a lot different since the Lightfall reveal
I'ma guess that with the recent story in season of Seraph, that this is the Neo city on Neptune and the Clouds striders are what this is talking about, and that colony.
Ra-ra-Rastuptin destinie's greatest plot irrelevance
That is a great guess at what the crown means. It got its nature from human literature so Rasputin could be a representation of that. The duality of man.
Coming from the future. What are the odds that NEFELE STRONGHOLD is Neo Muna? The defenders are the cloud striders after all
I hope we get a season this involving Ana Bray and Rasputin, maybe even going back to D2 Mars space now that Mars has returned in some form and fashion. Can only imagine what the D2 Mars location might look like now since it was consumed by the darkness for a period of time
Adding on to the "It's on Enceladus" theory some have mentioned - Enceladus (please, correct me if I'm wrong) was leader of the Titans (the *children* of Gaia/Earth) who fell in the battle of the giants. Herein, the light and the darkness are the giants, i.e. - Rasputin fell as the black fleet rose to combat the traveler.
Enceladus is described as the titan who "sighs through his grave". What if Rasputin is "sighing" to us from the grave? He purposely went through a great deal of trouble to remain hidden and wouldn't be found unless he wanted to be. What if he modeled Nafele as a digital analog of a Hive throne world, and is dropping proverbial breadcrumbs to us, knowing we've now navigated multiple throne worlds?
Additionally, Enceladus is a moon of Saturn - God of Agriculture and Time. Perhaps the "wounds" we see - 'out of time' visions of corn fields - are yet more breadcrumbs? Or perhaps the Witness opened these wounds using the relic in order to find the stronghold and, as Byf says, is aware Rasputin and Nefele still exists?
I think if the stronghold is a physical place it could possibly be the only facility capable of creating a new generation of warminds. It fits the theme of Nephele protecting her childen, and making new warminds would probably be a cut above Ana's paygrade, hence why she doesn't know anything about it
Has anyone looked up the anagrams?
Destiny loves it's anagrams. Some of them include "flee golden thorns" and "fell ghost neron" or "fell godson nether" sounds like a great name for an EXO body for Rasputin
There was a lore tab from something this season regarding Ana Bray and Rasputin if you haven't seen it. More whispers of her waking the warmind from its slumber.
How much do you guys want to bet that Nefele Stronhold is the dungeon next season?
I mean, we just happen to learn about it now, from the wounds on Mars. and the Witness was trying to learn about it too potentially. My bet is the Witness is in there right now, and we're going to run a Dungeon in there to take it back from the Witness.
9:59
practicing Christian here, your analogy/metaphor involving the crown of thorns is actually pretty interesting.
Never underestimate Rasputin. The love machine doesn't know when he's beaten!
I’m putting on my tinfoil hat and going with Cayde’s “It’s on Enceladus” as my theory.
When I first heard about this bit of evidence board lore, I immediately thought of lady efrideet and the “colony” passivist’s
Loki facilitating the death of Balder (Norse God of Light - in this metaphor the Lsst City would be Breidablik) is most commonly cited as the inciting event for Ragnarok, the death of the gods and the remaking of the world. By killing the Traveler, Rasputin would be starting a war between gods and cause profound change in the universe. LOKI CROWN seems to be a simple reference to this fact, that by taking that opening shot (and if the weapons he would use to do this feature any MISTLETOE references then you can basically call this confirmed) he would be assume the role of Loki, thus crowning himself to that title.
It's on Enceladus: Rasputin's personal "cloud" platform (e.g. see related entomology of the name and personage of Nephele at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephele) initially used to develop experimental versions of Rasputin and warsat technology then later used by Rasputin as a potential honeypot for alien cyberattack. This installation was most likely the initial contact point of The Darkness' invasion during The Collapse. Cayde-6, with his human history of initially being one of Clovis Bray's closest bodyguards, would have some rudimentary association with Rasputin. Cayde would have either memory traces of Rasputin's secret installations or would have rediscovered this information as a result of Cayde's penchant for creating caches for himself both for emergencies and also as external memory devices. If true, the Enceladus installation also would have been a perfect location for developing exos compatible for Rasputin's SERAPH protocol.
Ana, becoming a guardian after the fact of The Collapse, would have no memory of this. In fact, she may very well have instigated the shutdown herself during The Collapse as a means of preventing Rasputin's network, assets, and personal exo's from being hacked and pivoted by The Darkness.
I could be wrong, yet Bungie has proven itself to be a bit "on the nose" when involving mythologic names and references.
Alright I am gonna go with a way out there crackpot theory.
Everyone is related NEFELE with physical clouds like the Jovian planets, but what if it refers to the Oort Cloud? If Rasputin wanted to hide an extremely important cache of data or resources, why would you keep it near the system. I could be something like a space station deep in the Oort Cloud away, from civilization, where no one would think anything of value would be. If we want to keep with the NEFELE theme, the station could be operated by golems ,like Felwinter , that work to safeguard whatever Rasputin has deemed so valuable.
I give this theory a 99.99% chance of being wrong, but speculating is fun.
So some of the locations I was thinking for the Stronghold would be Pluto and/or it's moon, an object in the asteroid belt, or a comet/"comet" that orbits the sun on a VERY long time frame. I'm leaning more towards an asteroid belt or Pluto. The Asteroid Belt, as you know, is between Mars and Jupiter, so close to Mars but still a good distance out. It's close enough to Mars to defend easily, yet far enough away to avoid prying eyes. It has a lot of objects that can easily hide something Rasputin wanted hidden, and it would be a VERY arduous task to search. Then there's Pluto and it's moon Charon (using the term "moon" very loosely here because of Pluto's status). Pluto is VERY far out, orbits the Sun on a plane slightly askew to the rest of the solar system, is small, cold, and has an orbiting body definitely big enough to hide some very important stuff. It was out past the "farthest place the Traveler touched" but most definitely would have been explored by man and Rasputin. Those are my guesses.
I’m going to suggest the immortal Cayde line - “It’s on Enceladus.”
I’m thinking it’s out in the Jovian’s. Either a moon of Neptune or Uranus more specifically.
The additional idea of Nefele Stronghold, an old mining colony called Hyperion, and Efrideet’s pacifist colony all being the same place makes sense.
To borrow from my favorite (late) Science-fiction/space opera writer, it’s really easy to hide a bunch of metal structures and power sources on a nickel-iron asteroid or moon in the strong electromagnetic fields of turbulent gas giants
Pretty neat watching this after the Lightfall reveal
Niphellei is the cloud god, so the sky, the light. The lights children. he built a place to protect the children of the light.