The Mysterious Ruins of Kagrenzel - The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ต.ค. 2024
- The time has come to ponder a rather unique orb in a Dwemer ruin that raises several questions and endeavours to answer absolutely none of them. I thought it may be a tad early to stray out of my depth with lore mysteries with regards to The Elder Scrolls but I thought I'd give it a try.
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We shall never forget Icicle Craig
1:50
Don’t you mean Icicle Steve or is there another one who comes in the video later? 😅
@@Longshanks1690 you'll understand the joke soon.
@@FizhyRIP Icicle Baz 😔😢
Amen
Am I late for the vigil for Icicle Charlie?
Accidentally coming across this place after hundreds of hours of playing was terrifying, after being used to repeated mechanics and sounds.
It’s amazing what you will find when you go off the normal path. On my most recent run, I decided to go over the river and through the woods to the Hall of valor, rather than follow the normal path. I had already completed the civil war on the imperial side and I discovered Ulfric lost in the fog. He actually laments the war he started. Continued onward to the left and I discovered Galmar who hoped that Shor would cast me out of Sovngard. Jokes on him. Continuing on and oh, who’s this regal looking chap… OH MY GOSH! High King Torygg! What an honor!
The orb is scanning for people that are capable of tonalmanipulation, aka the dwemer, who practiced tonalmanipulation, which is a far more advanced and powerful form of magic.
We, the player and the dragons are naturally gifted in tonalmanipulation as we literally can speak it, like the dragons.
The orb thinks that we are a dwemer, as they are the only other known race that uses tonalmanipulation as we do in a way that is advanced enough that they can use it for city building.
If that's the case though, why would it dump every Dwemer that comes by into the drink?
Sorry to step out of lore, but it seems likely to me that this was a sort of foyer to a dungeon for a questline that never got finished. The orb asset, Falmer spawns points and long drop (which is possibly a unique event in the whole of the game) were probably finished first, then the quest got scrapped before they populated the chambers with lootable clutter and quest gates.
I don't know Bethesda's process for dungeon design, though, so I could be way off-base.
@@eeresponsible It's feasible that Dwemer were meant to have something, magic or otherwise, to help them down. If they had airships, they COULD have had something similar, like a gasbag. Or whatever those bones belongs to would help Dwemer down as, once they were dropped, they'd be what you got to next.
Further, it could be that the depths weren't finished, and it dropped Dwemer to the bottom for work. Clearly there is a path out, so they wouldn't be TRAPPED. And, for a guarded construction, it's a hell of a security system.
@@Sparten7F4 It is standard for Telvanni wizard towers to not have stairs. People are supposed to levitate up and down.
The dwemer might have something similar.
Or they planned to build something below the platform that never got finished before they disappeared.
If anyone has played ESO. Specifically the Wrathstone Update. This place is said to have held one half of the Tablet before being transported to Frostvault. I think the "light" is some sort of defensive measure and acts as a sort of "bio-scanner" and checking if you're a Dwemer. Of you're not.... it's off to the pit.
redguard swordsinging as well. do you know of any other forms of this power? nirnroots are related but it would be fun if every race had their own version. or every human race
I like the theory that says that, because you are the dragonborn you are probably the only living being, besides dragons, who can use Tonal Magic, as I can remember that was one of the secrets of dwarven technology, so, the orb scans for tonal magic within you and when it finds it let's you pass, that why the bandits died and you don't, possibly that was the way the orb detects tonal architects, I don't remember where I read that, but I like that idea.
Maybe you read it in the comment posted before yours
Thats fine and all, but then why the hell is its effect of letting us 'pass' to drop us down a 5 mile deep hole that leads to nothing?
@@lewd2851 only todd knows that and he works in mysterious ways
@@lewd2851levitation spells
Shouting is a form of Tonal Magic, and all Nords are born with the natural ability to train in this magic; thus we get the Tongues of old. But it doesn’t really make sense to me that the orb is….scanning for that? It’d make sense if it actually required the *use* of said Tonal Magic
If you have seen Nate's video, his theory is that the bandits were killed by sound, which the Dwemer are known to have been experimenting with and using and as far as the blue rock in the cavern below, Nate suggests this could be Aetherium.
I was also thinking Aetherium, but more along the lines of a storage place under construction.
A mine makes a lot more sense, given that the substance had to come from somewhere.
And the Dwemer could probably levitate themselves down the long shaft and back up again.
I love Icecicle James. He's my favorite frost troll and I'm glad you featured him here.
I think the fact we are Dragonborn is why the Orb let's us in, but not because of our soul but instead our Voice.
The Thu'um is actully some what similar to Dwemur Tonal Architecture, chiefly in the since that they are both a form of magic which is used via the weilder's voice.
Perhaps the Orb can detect we are a weilder of the thu'um but mistakes it for Tonal Architecture, therefore thinking we are a Dwemur, and rather than kill use like the Bandits it thinks we are authorized to enter.
The Kagrenzel ribcages are the same shape as the "Whalebone Bridge" in Sovngarde.
I saw another video not long ago mentioning the large bones elsewhere. I believe they're some sort of flying whales, hence why their remains are so far from the oceans.
Ah yes, the weird ass orb that sends you into a free fall and that even if you so much as TOUCH anything, you die... yes, I remember this place well.
What you need is Feim Til Gron, become ethereal
can’t wait for you to start covering the gods and how every culture’s interpretation is correct. such a confusing mess but it’s absolutely the most interesting part I find about TES
In terms of the lore you were afraid to have butchered, you were spot on. Known as Lorkahn to the Altmer, Shor to the Nords, and Shzar to the Imperials. He was the god of man, responsible for giving them life. But to the Altmer, he was the trickster god responsible for trapping them in Mundus (The mortal realm), and away from Aetherius(the immortal realm of the Aedra). During the Dawn Era, Lorkhan led his army of man into battle against the elves and faced the champion of the high elven pantheon Trinimac, who in battle "knocked Lorkhan down in front of his knocked Lorkhan down in front of his army and reached in with more than hands to take his Heart. He was undone. The Men dragged Lorkhan's body away and swore blood vengeance on the heirs of Auriel for all time. But when Trinimac and Auriel tried to destroy the Heart of Lorkhan it laughed at them. It said, "This Heart is the heart of the world, for one was made to satisfy the other." So Auriel fastened the thing to an arrow and let it fly long into the sea, where no aspect of the new world may ever find it." Where his heart landed Mount Vvardenfell or "The Red Mountain" was formed and was where it laid until the Dwemer discovered it in the first era.
And the blood that dripped from the hard became ebony, the mineral used to forge high quality weapons and armor.
If i remember correctly the bones os supposed to be the Floating Whales that were supposed to be in the game but were taken out due to the game engine.
I have played Skyrim ever since it came out in 2011, and it wasn't until 3 years ago that I found this place by accident, and I was completely surprised! The only reason I found it was because there's a beacon that shines at night, and I managed to climb my way up to it.
Wow a place that i haven't been to in Skyrim, that's rare.
What if it was a laboratory to study dragons? It would make sense in regards to the tonal manipulation of the universe that the Dwemer were known for and it could also server as an explanation for the skeletons (ignoring the fact that no dragon seen in game has ever been that large) and for the fact that this "city" is no more than a pile of rubble now. If we imagine that the dragons somehow escaped in a manner that collapsed this city or an experiment failed so badly as to do the same, then I could see the pit being the result.
This also takes into account the fact that two bandits just dropped dead while the Dragonborn fell into the pit. If this entrance was made for dragons, than the orb may have been a security measure to make sure nobody tried to sneak into the city through the top.
Now, lets say this city was connected to Blackreach. We now have an explanation for how Vulthuryol got there.
Maybe the skeletons weren't the dragons, but animals dropped down there to keep them fed?
There is a dragon in Blackreach. And that dragon must've been there for a very long time. And his remains and soul and whatever is neccesary are in an orb over the Silent City, suspended directly over what is possibly a forum.
Quite purposeful that the dwemer, who were working with tonal architecture have a City that is silent, with a forum which houses a dragon that can be awoken with a thu'um.
The dragon might as well have conversed with the dwemer there.
Why am I talking about that? Well, if there were dragons under the orb platform, they might've been there on invitation and not as prisoners.
Rest in peace Icicle John
Sounds like an unidentified serial killer from 1960s Scotland.
The idea that the spooky orb judged the Last Dragonborn of being “worthy” in a way that the generic bandits weren’t is the clear implication and the only explanation that makes sense.
Except that it doesn’t.
The Dwemer were a people who venerated logic and reason above all, they considered destiny to be a thing of the aedra whom they scorned. It wouldn’t make much sense for their spooky orb to judge the LB worthy because why would it consider that, or the litany of achievements one can gain in Skyrim, to be worthy in the eyes of the Dwemer?
More importantly… why would the Dwemer be using a spooky orb in the first place? All around us in Dwemer ruins are machines and engines, they were powered by industry and not the more natural magics that the other races so relied on. To be sure, the disappearance of the Dwemer seems to necessitate some kind of magic but as of yet, it seems very rare for the Dwemer to engage in magic. And yet right here, is a scary magic orb in one of their citadels. And it must be Dwemer, for how else is it attuned to this mechanism to allow it to decide who lives and dies? It can’t have been put there by someone else later, this place had to have been built by Dwemer for the specific purpose of housing the spooky orb.
And it’s not even like they feared it or wanted to house it away, this place is pretty accessible. Moreover, the orb drops you onto water. Whoever designed this place wanted those the orb deemed worthy to be saved immediate death and sent below… but why? When the Dwemer built this place, the Falmer were still the mighty Snow Elves, they wouldn’t have anticipated you fighting them in a contest of arms. And what purpose would that serve the Dwemer? They didn’t value strength, they valued logic, so fighting your way out wouldn’t be seen as an achievement as it would to the Nords.
So the spooky orb saves those who are worthy, drops them into a watery chasm to spare them and lets them climb back out. No matter what way you cut it, thus just doesn’t add up. And it’s so intentionally strange that we can’t just chalk it up to a Bethesda goof or laziness. No, there’s a deliberate design and point to this place. But whatever it is, I haven’t the faintest clue what it’s about.
The Thu’um that the Dragonborn uses is the same or at least identical to the Tonal Manipulation the Dwemer used. So it may have cared about the fact that you were Dragonborn, just not on the grounds of any reverence. I have no idea how the orb could detect that, but these are the people who could build robots and read Elder Scrolls safely.
@@non1263 Possibly. But again, the LB uses the “natural” tonal manipulation that is in accordance with the will of the aedra, whereas the Dwemer were trying to unlock the secret using mechanical, scientific means. I don’t think they’d respect an ability you were born with that you didn’t earn.
But let’s even leave that aside and say that’s exactly what the spooky orb is looking for those who can use tonal manipulation; Why do they drop them to the bottom of a massive chasm only breaking their fall with water for no reason?
That part just doesn’t add up even if we assume the spooky orb is looking for those who can help with the tonal manipulation mystery the Dwemer were trying to solve.
I don’t think the “drops you into water” part is all that unusual. It could be that the ruin simply collapsed, and that what happens to us isn’t what was intended to happen. Maybe there was a big magical elevator?
It’s important to remember that the Dwemer were also powerful mages. If what happens is intended, maybe you’re expected to be able to levitate your way through? Like the way Telvanni towers are built?
Your argument that they didn't use magic is false, tonal Architecture is a form of magic
@@LaSerpentDEden I don’t disagree, but it’s very clear that tonal architecture is very much an unnatural or unintended ability that the Dwemer were never supposed to possess or understand. It’s something outside the natural scope of the Aedra and Daedra so even something like necromancy which is reviled by princes like Arkay or Meridia is still more acceptable as an ability that comes from them and their conception of order in the universe than tonal architecture which goes outside their control.
That’s why I don’t think the spooky orb would value the abilities of the LB very much. The magic of the Thu’um still comes from that order established by the aedra, to which the dragons belong. The Dwemer would only value magic obtained by themselves outside the confines of this order, which is what tonal architecture was trying to accomplish.
This is why i love Skyrim, and just Elder Scrolls itself, so many different mysteries, and for me, Skyrim is like a flawed masterpiece, shallow in some parts but deep in other parts, it has charm to it.
It might have been important once, but time and the Falmer took their toll, though the glow may be some form of Aetherium.
So Tonal Architecture is a type of Tonal Magic that, like other Tonal Magic, Uses sound. Other magic that Does this is
1. Sword singing
2. Green singing
And then last but certainly not least
3. The Thu’um.
My theory is that It checks for those who uses Tonal Magic of some sort. They are the only ones who are allowed to enter.
The dwemer must've built incredible sound systems.
You know what a surprise it was for me to see robots and machinery in a game I expected to solely be medieval themed, it was like I gained Insight
You’re doing fine with the lore don’t worry, but as someone who loves Skyrim and TES in general I’m happy to see you diving into its mysteries.
Rip Icicle Samuel 😭
Just loaded up TH-cam man🙏🏽 also please keep making more Skyrim lore vids 🗣️
I plan to explore the mysteries more-so than outright lore for the time being as, this video is a chief example of how the lore can get out of hand even in mysteries and leave me out of my depth, nonetheless I thought it was a good example where I can fairly reasonably give it my best shot.
Every world worth its salt deserves at least one good mystery for us to wonder about.
Credit to Bethesda for giving us this one. Sometimes even they can do right.
. . . . or maybe they couldn't come up with a good explanation and were just hoping some modder would do it for them!
It reminds me of a few of the mysterious stories we have in our world history, including the Sumerian stories of the Annunaki.
What it looks like to me is that the two bodies at the entrance were not deemed “worthy,” so after the light scanned them, instead of flipping the floor and allowing them in, it simply locked them in the cage until they died from starvation since there’s no blood or signs of violence? A very interesting location for sure. Great video man, keep up the good work!
I only found this place in my latest play through had no idea it was even there and that’s why i love Skyrim
God I love this series of your videos so so much!
I always got the impression that the orb was waiting for some response from us that never came. Like some kind of password for a portal that instead dropped into a huge empty pit that originally didn't have any water or a viable way out. By the time you get there in Skyrim the place has been abandoned for like 3000 years or something which would be more than long enough for water to trickle in and for lots of trolls and Falmer and humans to chip away and create/ break through to that chamber. I don't think we ever "got past" whatever mechanism that orb represents.
I changed a lamp while watching this and glad to say it works. Cheers.
I don't know if someone else commented this already, but there is a concept in Elder Scrolls regarding the dwemer called Tonal Magic in which the dwemer in some way use or manipulate sound to do magical things many people think that dragon shouts are a form of tonal magic perhaps the orb detects that you can do or know how to do shouts/tonal magic this also explains the name :)
Just got home from work thank you for these Skyrim vids.
I have always wanted more on this race.
I've heard that it may have been a testing ground for tonal magic similar to the dragon shouts. It would make sense that it's a big open space with nothing else inside if so
I recently found your channel again after I watched your videos like 5 years ago when you were doing these assassin's creed rankings etc. I'm really glad about it because I really enjoy these kind of videos even if it's about a game I don't particularly care about like Skyrim. Your voice, the editing and the occasional jokes are really great and I hope you're gonna do a lot more in the future. Fantastic work!
I have played through this games countless times and I never knew this place existed good god how are there still surprises after so many years
Been watching since the first rdr videos and I genuinely think that branching out to other games is just awesome
If you enter Stony Creek Cave and go to the waterfall, you can go to the left of it and jump up on the rock and keep jumping and you can get on top of the falls and enter that way. I've done it many times.
I like playing lore videos when i go to sleep and you are one of my go tos, and now that you are covering elder scrolls i have a bunch more content to listen to! So thank you fizhy for helping me sleep and get through work without wanting to commit seppuku
Ps. You should cover some morrowind and oblivion stuff tons of really fun deep lore in those games and they are just really fun plays in general
Bro dressed up like Leon from RE6 in that picture at the beginning and I love it.
The compass breaks in many locations. Including castle Volkihar. Bethesda just isn't very attentive to details.
I'm willing to believe kagenzel is part of an unfinished dungeon because, as it stands, kagrenzel is the most expensive and inefficient trap base on tamriel
I've been following Elder Scrolls lore for years now, and I'm so disappointed I haven't seen anyone try to figure out HOW the bandits were killed. I never made the connection that the floating orb looked like a restoration spell, but if the bandits were not killed with bloodshed, then they must've died either by starvation, the cold elements, or a form of magic which drained their life (however the drain life spell looks nothing like the orb).
I've always believe that alarm that plays after touching the orb has to be important as well. No where else have I ever heard such a noise in the Elder Scrolls, and I've always wondered if the name of this place, having to do with music and sound, is a clue that the sounds we hear are more than just an alarm. Tonal magic is said to manipulate the very building blocks of the elder scrolls universe (like a sorta string theory to compare it to our world), maybe this alarm noise is simply how the orb "reads" the people who interact with it.
I do believe flying whales are confirmed canon, tho I cannot recall from where exactly. The bridge that you cross in Sovengarde is said to be the skeleton of one of these whales, I also remember a tale that the special tree in the plains near Whiterun is said to have fallen off the back of a flying whale. If I had to guess, perhaps Kagrenzel was built upon either the birthplace or deathbed of these ancient creatures. Yet this still answers to no questions as to the nature of the structure or the orb.
I also believe that its ending location, the cave, being not terribly far from Mzulift is also a clue to what this place could've been as well as it's location in the mountain being set in the middle of the mountain range between the Southern pass and Northern sea could be a clue. Perhaps it was simply a shortcut with an automated security system, judging those who possess tonal magic (such as the thu'um) and allowing them to enter rather than face the harshness of the mountain. During the time of the Dwemer rule, the Thalmor would've been enslaved, making the trip far easier than in the day of the Dragonborn.
What if the orb raised the fence, but didn't drop them. Basically waiting for some signal to start the next part in the process.
So what if the dwemer developed something better than mechanical lifts.
You go on the platform, the orb raises the fence and singles ready. Then whoever is on the platform is supposed to use some form of tonal magic to do the next.
The bandits don't know any of that and the orb just sits there waiting for user input.
But as dragonborn we have the thu'um, which could be close enough to dwemer tonal magic for it to unlock the door.
But sadly everything below has long since collapsed and we go into a deep fall.
@@HappyBeezerStudios Well for one, there is no evidence to support anything below was built by the Dwemer. Between the facility and the bottom, there is only rock and bone. Artificial aspect to the hole is the fact it exists and that the dwemer built on top of -or more likely created- it. Only at the bottom is there a path through the rock and up on some platforms and bridges and not made out of Dwemer technology; plus it is infested with Falmer.
I'm also not convinced the orb is sentient or can move things. I feel it is likely a result of the Dwemer trap itself, everything (the rising fence and platform) being activitied not by the orb, but by you interacting. To me, it doesn't feel like the orb is doing anything other than scanning.
this one and the sightless pit were the two ruins that had my brain bursting. i actually got vertigo in the sightless pit, and this one scared the absolute crap outta me.
My head Canon is the giant hole with all the bones was a housing unit for "snow whales"
"A powerful mythical McGuffin of some description."
Um. And the very thing that allowed the dragons to return to Elsweyr in the second era. With a dragon motif. [Trying to be as vague as possible so as to avoid spoilers for anyone who still wishes to do the prologue quests for this EP], and something that was _desperately_ searched for after the Alessian rebellion [see "Frostborn Journal"]. The left side was entrusted to the dwemer of Kagrenzel, and the right to, erhm, someone else, by Meridia.
Shuttling this "McGuffin" off to one side in any investigation of Kagrunzel is... missing a rather major straw to grasp at when looking at the mysteries of this ruin. ;)
Killer Healer Orb. Meridia. Dragons. Dragonborn. Cough.
[ETA: I do enjoy this video; I suspect to understand what I mean you'd need to play through Base game ending, Summerset & Elsweyr and that's a lot of commitment, time-wise, to make :D ]
Correction to the beginning of the video:
Dwemer ruins are only found across northern Tamriel (High Rock, Hammerfell, Skyrim, and Morrowind). The Dwemer never went south of the Jerral Mountains, just like how the Ayleids of Cyrodiil and Valenwood never went further north
Maybe the bandits trudged thru the snow expecting a whole dwarven, steam heated ruin, found none, and froze
Drewmora,fudge Muppet and camel works are the best channels for deep elderscrolls lore imo
Dont miss the diamonds on the ledges above as you trundle through the caves. They can be shot dow with arrows, or if you are not sure you can aim at them, just disable collision and pluck them from their resting places.
I don't know if you play ESO but there is so much about the Dwemer in that; one theory worth investigating that would need a map is if this ruin is at the exact midpoint between the Heart of Lorkhan (Red Mountain, Vvardenfell) and the Dark Heart of Lorkhan (Blackreach, Skyrim - technically under Lost Valley in the Reach in the ruins of Arkthzand.
“Babe come over to Kagrenzel”
“I can’t, I’m fighting Icicle Steve”
“There’s an unexplained, glowy orb here tho”
🏃🏻🏃🏻♂️🏃🏻🏃🏻♂️🏃🏻🏃🏻♂️🏃🏻🏃🏻♂️🏃🏻🏃🏻♂️🏃🏻🏃🏻♂️🏃🏻🏃🏻♂️🏃🏻🏃🏻♂️
We ponder the orb in unison.
@@Fizhy Me and the boys on our way to worship the spooky orb 🙇🏻♂️
i like to agree with the whole "soul being too big" part. it reminds me a lot of the medic's lore from team fortress 2, how he sold his soul to the devil, then found a way to stitch multiple other souls onto his own. so blah blah blah the devil no longer had power over him because the medic had a majority of his soul, as opposed to the devil
also i was like "i know this place 😃😃😃" and the proceeded to Not know the place. i found the pit from a completely different cave, at the end of it was a waterfall that wasn't just the typical. white stuff coming out of solid rock, so i managed to climb up and shout over to it. following where it led, and then was like "woah, what the heck??? there's just a giant pool of water with treasure after all that work???? what a rip off" then thought it was maybe the top of that collapsed room at the end of the thieves guild quest line (shhh i guess my brain was stuck in fallout 3 still. everything is connected to everything underground 😂🤷♂). though it makes me wonder if there is any kind of special conditions programmed in, like ordering a companion to do it might lead to a different result (if not in base game, then through teleporting them inside and then force them to interact through console commands or whatever) or possibly a "this is impossible. but for lore, we'll put it in anyway" (like unviewable from in bounds bomb craters in fallout new vegas, or natural extensions to rivers that also isn't viewable) like if a non dragonborn player interacted with it, something else happens (like in one of the final fantasy games. there is dialogue about how "you are not the key bearer" when in gameplay & cut content. there is nothing to suggest you play as anyone other than the key bearer)
I've managed to whirlwind sprint into the exit without ladders, or mods. Explored, killed all the falmer and stuff, and Kagrunzel on my map remained undiscovered but got labeled as completed.
Maybe Kagrenac established a mine of some sort, in search for fitting bone structures that he could use to construct Numidiums' body with. And all that's left now are these huge whale ribcages because they had no use for these.
And maybe Kagrenzel was totally empty because it just so happenes to be looted just recently because the dead bodies haven't been skeletonized yet.
Another one you could look into is either the legend of red eagle or the forbidden legend quest. Maybe even the aetherium forge. Many interesting things you could investigate.
An unfinished build site would make sense. Has anyone dove to the bottom of that pool of water at the bottom? I doubt it would have anything of interest at the bottom though. The orb probably was scanning for tonal magic as others suggest, that also makes sense.
The bones are interesting, maybe it was some kind of dig site where they were looking for more of them. I'm not sure what significance they would have, outside of studying them. If the bones were important to the Dwemer, it could be that they were tied to tonal magic in some way, it would explain the apparent security system.
Or as you said, it could have just been Bethesda adding something interesting into the game.
I have actually got into it from the exit, it took some effort and lots of jumping
My theory for the bandits death is pretty basic, the orb simply kept the cage up until they starved to death.
The orb itself is the treasure. A prototype synthetic spiritual being that was stored here just before the Dwemer disappeared. It scanned you waiting for the appropriate access codes and when you fail to do so, ejects you.
It's been 2 months, so idk how much more You've learnt from TES lore, but Harkon was a God that tricked the now known as Aedra into creating mundus, the realm were we play. Aedra means "our ancestors" while Daedra means "Not our ancestors".
Ebony is Harkon's blood in solid form.
You can 'parkour' from Stony Creek into the Kagrunzel exit tunnel with vanilla jumping. I used to do it in Skyrim/SSE but now I use TDM and jumping is a PITA :D
I live in Nchuanthumz, my home next door. Kagrenzel is where I send unwanted solicitors and couriers with to do lists from strangers calling themselves my friend.
Honestly I’ve just come to the opinion that given how much the Dwemer are generally just, assholes to races other than them. Some dwemer just made it to mess with the surface races.
As far as I am concerned, Icicle Steve is now cannon to the elder scrolls.
We don't know what the dwemer planned to have under the platform. They might as well about to build a new city there, but never got around it before they left.
And the platform with the orb might be their new version of the familiar elevators.
Now what makes us different from the bandits ... we are dragonborn.
The light on the other hand, might not be as a lighthouse, but more as a navigation beacon. Not to warn airships of the mountains, but to help them set a course between Mzulft and a place in southern Morrowind.
You can traverse the waterfall. Ive done it a few times. Go from the left side and spam jump along the middle rock face. Also, you get a bow of the bandut chief, ruins edge. Pretty nice bow.
My guess is that music city is somewhere else now. I think we open the door to music city but, it isn't there anymore just the surrounding cavern where it once was. Falion will tell you that he has met Dwemer before in other planes of Oblivion. I like to think that somewhere music city is sitting in another plane.
Given the time which has passed since the Dwemer disappeared, we cannot rule out that the second entrance to the caverns below Kagrenzel only opened up recently, and that the caverns may not have had other entrances. A decent sized stream does after all go through there and water erodes pathways over long periods of time.
Secondly we cannot be sure that the caverns we see are the complete complex below Kagrenzel, they could well have held access to now inaccessible Dwemer creations. After all as you move through the place it does seem geologically unstable, with tremors and falling rocks at several points.
Thirdly, maybe those giant corpses is the reason why the Dwemer put Kagrenzel here, maybe they extracted something from them as they dug down, eventually hitting the cavern below, could be as simple as very rare and valuable alchemical reagents they could derive from the remains.
Personally I think the simplest solution is the best, even if it comes from ESO and not Skyrim itself. Kagrenzel probably did hold an artifact which has since been removed, and the caverns below may or may not have been inaccessible through Stony Creek Cave.
Only major reason to disbelieve that is the presence of Falmer, the slaves of the Dwemer of Skyrim. They usually exist in the remnants of Dwemer cities and outposts and if Kagrenzel just held an artifact and wasn't a full blown city or outpost then there shouldn't be Falmer there.
I wager its an orb which detects traces of sound based magic, or tonal magic as others suggest, and it together with the long drop would ensure that the people it let in could only come out if they knew tonal magic and were a somewhat proficient wizard capable of advanced levitation or teleportation, as any Dwemer should have been.
I would be interested in knowing whether there are any hints in Skyrim's data files or documentation of Kagrenzel once having a purpose tied to it, it does seem remarkably unique for a location not tied to any quest or other content.
UESP suggests Kagrenzel means "Music City" in Dwemer, if true that lends credence to the orb detecting tonal magic traces, and that the place was larger in the past before it started collapsing. Although of course it could be unfinished, but why place an elaborate defense mechanism like the orb over an unfinished city entrance? Would seem more likely that they would add such a feature after finishing enough of the location to make it worth keeping safe.
Hmmm I like the idea of it being an unfinished city. And, as others have pointed out, perhaps the orb scans for those with the ability to manipulate tonal magic. Perhaps the hole wasn't meant to remain a hole, but the floor was to give way to a spiral staircase or ramp that lead the allowed person down into the city proper. It may have been intended to be a safehaven, a redoubt, for all tonal architects should things have gone sour with the Nords and/or the Chimer at Red Mountain. And they did, but the outcome was something they had not anticipated (or did they?).
Rest In piece icicle donny gone but never forgotten
Kagrenzel is connected to the Creation Club quest that follows Ghosts of the Tribunal, a series of quests that have you collecting artifacts from Elder Scrolls 3. The quest in question has you rescuing a priestess that went missing into Kagrenzel. My quest marker for this quest was messed up and I am using Animated Wings Ultimate. After falling through to the lower cavern, the quest marker repositioned itself, saying I needed to go back up and out of Kagrenzel, so I took flight with my wings and flew back up. On my way up, I happened to discover the mysterious bones that appear on the map. So they aren’t just a feature on the map, they are actually present in the dungeon itself.
The purpose of Kagrenzel is to send your friends to experience it. Most notably those friends who have a problem with heights.
14:28 If memory serves I actually did manage to scale this waterfall with some wall jumping shenanigans and enter through the intended exit before even discovering Kagrenzel. I had no idea what the purpose of the place was, particularly looking up and seeing the giant open shaft going up and out of sight, lol
Was that a dog i heard barking at 11:40? Perhaps he knows the legend of kagrenzel.
I think that the orb was used as a trap but also a teleportation mechanism. If you are a thief with a week soul it will just kill you. If you are a person with a strong soul but not a Dwemer it can’t kill you so it just drops you. But if you were a Dwemer it would teleport you to another area.
Maybe what used to be there was destroyed or misplaced. The magic at the top could be the last remnant of their tonal magic, allowing you in because it misidentifies your ability to shout as tonal magic. Maybe the reason that individual they were tracking, had disappeared here, is because whatever they came their to actually do, had displaced the entire citadel.
I think the tone from the orb is meant to kill, but if that fails, and it senses a Tongue / Dragon Born, it tries to kill by a sheer drop.
I've often wondered if we have to come here with a specific item, or counter shout at it, proving we can manipulate tones.
There is one possibility.
The ruins of Kagrenzel are the most ruinous in Skyrim. The damage is so extensive that only the smallest of fragments can be found in the caves & caverns, & the lower egress is the result of water, erosion rather than design.
And if it were that the dwemer had transcended reality, that destruction might well be evidence that Kagrenzel was at or near the epicentre of the event, its heart & evidence, again, of the destructive capabilities of tonal magick.
I actually came across a reddit post that speculated this ruin might be a reference to journey to the center of the earth as the protagonist goes in a ruin falls in a hole lands in water and ends up in a "land of giants" could explain the bones, but it could be wrong
Perhaps the blue glowing bits on the ceiling were dismissed too quickly... instead of glow worms, maybe it was a mine for aetherium.... which would give a major reason to protect it from anyone but the dwarves. My personal theory is that the dragonborn is recognized as having tonal ability and the orb mistakes you for one of the dwemer
03:49 a perfect time for a quicksave 😅
I've heard the idea that this was the place the Dwemmer built and stored the Numidium otherwise known as their Brass God and their ultimate war machine. In Skyrim Lore, when building the Empire, Tiber Septim would recover the Numidium and use this war machine to help defeat his enemies and so build the Septim Empire 🤔
Perhaps it used to be a hole that led to the massive cave that the Dwemer used to get around like a hub. But then some type of animals possibly experimented animals (Given the massive skeletons) got out and they had to seal the place off. And the trap is to keep out anyone trying to steal the research of the animals.
My guess for this places significance; gas.
The brazier up top could still be burning after all this time because this giant pit is either a well of natural gas, or they dumped large corpses in here to decompose and release gasses over the course of however long it took. This could also be why they use the "strange orb" rather than their more characteristic machines; less likely to ignite the gas.
Or maybe it's just a over-the-top garbage shute, that flips things into the void once it determines there are enough items on the platform.
For dwemer vivec says they achieved chim a form of enlightenment but couldn't handle it and thus erased themselves from the world of course given the fact that one dwemer still exists makes me believe they didn't die out but essentially attempted to conjure while being conjured and were taken to a place they can't escape or they got fused with their machine
The orb just kept the door locked when they didnt pass the tonalmanipulation scan so the bandits starved, thus the lack of injury
Icicle Tony lives on in our hearts
Everyone trying to think of possible deep lore reasons or possible quests from Bethesda are overthinking it...
It's a literal Troll Dungeon.
Thought related to the alarm sound it makes… could this be a tool for tonal magic the Dwemer used? Maybe it was a mining tool that was left on when they disappeared, or potentially an experiment for a new power source rather than cubes and dynamos. Maybe even a torture chamber where they tested the magic’s effects on the Falmer…
I’d say the water at the bottom, as well as the exit can be ignored seeing as the process of erosion seems to exist in game… probably…
Perhaps the big mystery with this dwarven ruin is simply cut content. Maybe this location was supposed to be something much more elaborate and fleshed out, but Bethesda cut it and just had the huge drop lead you to a random cave, in this case Stoney Creek Cave that was right next door.
The ESO lore states that there was a treasure in Kagrenzel, but it was moved. I think the purpose of the city was to secure that one specific artifact, it was used for something, and it wasn’t put back before the disappearance of the dwemer
For all purposes, Kagrenzel is a bank vault that doesn’t have any money in it
iirc, the sky whales are real - or real in lore - and supposedly used to shed a powdery white substance called "joy-snow" that the Nords would get high on. Elder Scrolls lore is a bit wacky sometimes.
The two bandits tripped one or more traps that didnt reset after killing them.
When we go in, we are hit with a different trap - as if there were progressive traps to deter trespassers from finding something - or encouraging further attempts because obviously something good must be hidden inside due to all the protections installed. - because the dwarves were dicks.
Built up fortress, on top of hard to climb mountain, intense cold, dangerous beasts, locked door, disorientation/teleport trap upon entry, multiple killing traps, and the long fall trap with a possible exit after fighting through the dwemmer slaves so that rumors of the place could leak out and attract further treasure hunters.
This was a great video of some description
Enjoyed your video. Wasn't it icicle Bob? surely
Well, the Dwemer did have an unhealthy obsession with deadly games and puzzles. Perhaps this is just one of them? If you're deemed worthy of the test (and you survive the fall), fight your way back up?
Where did he come from, where did he go? Why would you kill icicle Joe?
Rip
The only reason I found out about this place was because of a mod, specifically Khajit Will Follow, as a companion quest from that mod has you go there to find the missing brother of one of the companions, who was obsessed with Dwemer ruins and believed Kagrenzel had a secret regarding a powerful forge. That detail is only a part of the mod so I doubt it’s canon.
I think a lot of people are not realizing that this is a LOTR reference from the developers; Giant fall down to the pits of the earth, land in water and giant bones can be seen? This is none other than a reference to Gandalf and the Balrog in the first film and I'm confident in this since the developers were LOTR fans!
RIP Icicle Jeff. We will never know his like again