How AI Will Ruin Cycling | GCN Tech Show Ep. 317
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 พ.ค. 2024
- This week we discuss the impact AI WILL have and is having on cycling! Alex is away so Si is here to help us cover all the latest tech news, bike vault AND we have new kit!
Welcome 0:00
AI in cycling 0:45
Hot & Spicy Tech 17:43
Comment of the week 23:00
Bike vault 28:27
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Do you think that AI could ruin cycling? 🤖
its not gonna ruin *my* cycling :)
Nope
That's the spirit! @@kieranbarry8193
How would it?
AI coder / engineer here - nope, it won't ruin anything unless you specifically set out to do so!
Agree with Si. For the vast majority of riders it’s about heart and enjoyment.
Algorithms and AI are not the same. As long as there is no training/learning component it's not AI.
And what we have with those training/learning is NOT AI FFS WHEN WILL PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THIS
Humans have never made an A.I. that is publicly known. It bothers me to see all this A.I. stuff these days. Statistical models with loads of data and learning software are not A.I.
AI, as defined today, relies heavily on machine learning. While traditional statistical modeling tries to find relations between known variables and to explain them (for example, wind speed in summer in France depending on historical averages and terrain type), machine learning is focused on making predictions without looking to explain them.
Computers are fed tons of reference data, tons of reference results, and are trained to find random markers that could accurately predict results from novel data.
@@lbx5359 And all the training data has bias.
On the “everyone aspires to superbikes”, those who race may do. Others will just see these as piles of plastic and electronics that don’t deliver a sustainable, comfortable and satisfying ride. There is a place for all of this and one should be careful not to got just down the pro peloton inspired bicycle route and look at other forms of cycling.
I dunno, you ever use top of the line electronic shifting? It's so fast and smooth it's practically telepathic. Pretty darn satisfying if I do say so myself. Brand new hydraulic braking (come to a full stop with one finger) is also a comfortable and satisfying experience.
@@askmeaboutmattweiner Yes I have and it is very nice, but it is out of reach for a lot of cyclists. I am lucky enough to be able to pick and choose the bikes and set ups that I ride. Not everyone is and for those who are not experienced or are just starting all the experience needs to be shown - not just the very top of the tech racing stuff.
Yes, the majority of cyclists aren't interested in racing/ performance.......but the industry/ media would have you believe it's the opposite. There is a place for #PartyPace....
I love it how Ollie turns into a quivering mess when Si is in the hot seat beside him.
It’s like watching the master and his padawan.😂
I definitely think Ollie is a fanboy of Si! 😂 I want more pairings of of Ollie and Si! They're the Voltron of nerdy tech!
I suspect that Si is lumbered with doing Ollie’s annual job performance evaluation. I am so glad I am retired and don’t have to do that anymore!
Si is far better than Oliver!
First of all, he is able to film different videos, while Oliver is able to talk about one thing: aerodynamic!
And since last week, they understood that the aerodynamics are expensive, and they need to speak about common/affordable items.
How does one manage to get their Bike onto a Bike Vault show with Si and Ollie. Ollie is much nicer with Si next to him. :)
I love the way Si is questioning Ollie's tech nerd stats whereas Alex is always like "wow, that's so cool"😂
You’re never going to let Alex forget his Dura ace chainset, that he just has lying around 😅
I like maximum tech but I’d be neat to see a race, like the Keirin, where tech has been equalized in that all riders have the exact same bike and no power meters are involved. Could be a road race or a road time trial or on the track. It could be a new “discipline”. I think some athletes would like this.
Who know's where the future will take us!
I asked ChatGPT to write a comment based on the video title. Here you go: "Interesting take on the potential impacts of AI on cycling! As technology evolves, it's crucial to find a balance that enhances the sport without overshadowing the essence of human effort and skill. Great insights from GCN Tech, always sparking thoughtful discussions!"
Absolutely! The dynamic interplay between technology and human skill in sports like cycling is fascinating. It's vital to ensure that AI and tech advancements complement the athletes' abilities and the sport's integrity, rather than overpowering them. GCN Tech does a great job at highlighting these aspects and initiating meaningful conversations in the cycling community.
To Ollie’s point at 9:30 - Isaac Del Toro just exemplified that point in Stage 2 of the Tour Down Under.
Decathlon, the IKEA of sports?
Si's face at 22.04 (hot & spicy tech) as Ollie talks about a rear derailleur hanger is priceless 🤣
Si and Oli chatting about the future prospects of how A.I. could benefit future cycling and racing was almost like those "hopeful" conversations we have all had thousands of times about what we would do if we won the lottery jackpot.
You know what can help promote entry bikes? Feature them more on bike vaults
I think making more content about them, and lowering the price would be better than bike vault.
We can only feature what get's submitted!
@@stevemawer848 yeah that would be better
@@oliverbridgewood3929 Hi ollie yes thats true but iknow amd i am sure there are many entry once being submitted. The evidence would be i submitted plenty full times of my entry bike but not get a chance to be pick. So i think there are more bikes beeing submitted than you can handle. So just pick those entry once from unknown brands.
Glad Ollie has it right that "AI" is just a marketing name for these large data statistical modeling systems
Back in the 80s, my company developed a system that monitored what went in and what came out and compared the results based on many variables. It learnt as it went along and was able to determine, given the weather conditions, tide times etc., how much to put in, to get the best output. In those days, it was called an "Expert System".
A bike painted in the charity-riden-for's colours should be an ultra nice and the rider is obviously an ultra nice guy too (well, assuming the charity isn't the National Front or something anyway)
not sure they’d be considered a charity 😅
Si’s comment about overshoes - seem to remember from a bike fit video that his saddle is pretty high and he points his toes quite a lot at the bottom.
This might be one reason he really feels the overshoe resistance!
Cyclists who have a more stable foot/ankle position won’t feel that effect - just slightly heavier and warmer feet!
Don't mention ankles around Si 😉
Si grilling Ollie on the derailleur hanger was the best bit of the show. How many grams?
Frames & Gear make some awesome stuff. Especially the front mount for the Colnago C68 and front light mount for an Exposure Light. As the C68 comes with an awful plastic thing the Frames & Gear is an absolute necessary upgrade!
One of the best GTN Tech Shows editions since long time!
Ollie-Si is the best combo. Great chemistry they’ve got
26:30 I bought a pack of 100 for 3.5 euros 👀 thanks for the suggestion!
Yeah nah, I call BS on Olie redefining stuff that isn't AI as "AI".
Ref. entry level bikes. Are we going to get 'Stars on a reasonably priced bike'?
That could be an amazing segment!
Had a good chuckle at Ollie's pronunciation of my name there, Ben Cruachan is a Munro in Scotland. 🤣
the derailleur hanger is something I didn’t know I need till I found my stock hanger makes my rear derailleur have some side play…they are not that expensive over the stock one and easier to buy (stock hanger are usually sold out everywhere). So why not some bling?
I work in academia. Here is the sexy truth about working with AI: linear regression, k-means clustering, random forest, support vector machines etc. 😅
I think some of the programs may already be doing this, but it would be nice if they could model your FTP based on your rolling performance data on Zwift or Strava. If it were an ongoing thing, you wouldn’t need to do periodic FTP tests. I have yet to do one but plan to later in the month. In the meantime, I had to manually adjust my FTP down to what seems a reasonable level. That would be a very effective training tool for most of us, especially when they are pushing the training envelope.
It is the new EPO. Things never change. If teams are doing it, big deal. It is up to us whether we fall for this stuff or not, but if it can actually help somebody become more efficient, and they like it, go for it. On yer bike.
Oi! Alan! No! Stop ruining cycling!
Trainerroad offers AI based training plans for a couple of years. Their system creates your profile based on your training data and lots of other data they accumulated. It’s pretty good.
#AskGCNTech
When it comes to training, getting better, stronger, enduring more is there value in increasing the FTP settings used by your smart trainer. e.g., month 1 at 200W, month 2 at 205W, month 3 at 210W etc
For the vast majority of people a top of the range super bike, would be entirely inappropriate. It like buying an F1 car to commute to work, or go for a few club rides. Most people need bikes with more of an endurance geometry rather than all out race.
How can anyone NOT be a fan of time trialing?? Unlike team events where outcome depends on other people, time trialing is pure mano-a-mano and a true test of how cyclists rank against each other.
I hated time trials - it's boring riding alone with only myself to beat. I much preferred to be able to outsprint people at the end of the ride, having sat in for the whole race! Race clever, race lazy! 🙂
I like to have bottles that are not matching so that I know which bottle has electrolytes and which one contains water.
Just always put them in the same bottle cage
@@rob-c. When refilling, and filling and sonon, you can avoid confusion. Like when we go on a long self supported ride, it is useful to know which is which. Having matching water bottles has no other use than being good in photographs. This serves a better purpose in my opinion.
wondering if a future development could be to have a mini camera and laser embedded in to bike stems (not to melt the tyres of the rider in front but) to analyse the road ahead such as hill gradient - which could then auto adjust the gearing for optimal performance
AI could be amazing for testing. Imagine a bot that could ride. It could hold the exact same position, measure wind, measure vibrations, measure deflection between pedals and bars and actually safely test cornering forces and max speeds. When AI can ride the whole game changes.
It can certainly be used as a force for good! 🙌
The new clothing sponsors name reminds me of the 80s tune Agadoo 😅 by Black Lace.. 😊 Pete 👍😃
Also, and about AI, it’s funny that you mention Terminator and SKYNET (Ai)… I think this film depicts the exact way we ( humans) will go away… lol… Ai will push the button!
Have a great weekend :)
AI could work as a training aid and analysis tool, but to be an overall micromanaging governor of someone's race activity sounds like asking too much of it
So I brought the Gcn kit before you went black,so it's effectively back in fashion! Boom! 😎😂
Haha. The Dura-Ace chainset, the gift that keeps giving.
I'm still not convinced about having Skynet design things for the cyclin industry. Including bikes.
Simon, have you ever done a retro piece riding and talking about the penny farthing?
Technically I think Garmin and similar integrate such things already? They integrate your sleep, training, event goals, and stress levels to give you suggestions for workouts for both cycling and running.
The bad part is it seems to be biased towards long base rides. Which is doubtless great, but it's not practical to do hours of riding before work most days.
I see that you use Wahoo Speedplay cleats … any suggestions or fixes in relation to the walkable cleats, they either wear out quickly / become loose or just fall off … they are not cheap to replace.
Bless you!
The chainring, on that time trial bike, looks like a circular saw blade.
I was riding the Fred in 2019 and very early on we turned east, perhaps on Holbeck Lane, with a mass of riders just after the sun cleared the horizon. It was also a little hazy. I could see nothing at all, but the rider immediately in front of me had shocking orange shoes and I could see them, so I just maintained the proper distance to those shoes and avoided carnage. That bicycle would have done the trick.
You can also look at top-shelf kit vs. more economical brands that make great kit without the top-shelf price. Took a cruise through the GCN shop and $182 for a short-sleeved jersey is more than I pay for a full set of kit from my preferred manufacturers. The long-sleeved winter jersey is the same cost as a short-sleeved jersey? Seems to be a misprint as there's much more to a winter jersey when compared to the summer options.
My eyes glazed over at 15:35
The mic on the braids 😂😂
AI for bike fitting makes a ton of sense. We love our Phil Burts of the world, but fitting can be expensive and time consuming. You could have a room with a treadmill surrounded by smart cameras and LiDAR sensors, have the rider pedal through a set regiment and let the AI make suggestions. There would be a lot to teach the computer, but ultimately it would be totally possible to eliminate the need for a human fitter.
My first thoughts were that it would be useful for working out the ideal seat height and crank length for biomechanical efficiency; the knee joint has a pretty complex movement and with joints, limb lengths and muscle strengths different for every rider it's very complex problem.
@@adadinthelifeofacyclist a very complex problem indeed, that’s where AI strives though. It can reference the entirety of statistics and reasoning concerning bike fitment (available on the internet) and give advice way faster than a human. The more we would use it, the more it would learn. You could tell it, “that adjustment made my hips hurt” and it would learn that certain characteristics of certain riders can respond poorly to particular adjustments and vice versa. There’s way too much for my tiny brain to compute, which is why it makes sense to let a hyper intelligent computer assist. If proper fitters like Phil assisted in the development, it would eventual surpass all of their skill levels and become the best option. Which is obviously terrible for bike fitters, but awesome for average-joe riders like myself.
Doesn't ID match select the bike best suited to you?
I've got a problem with balancing my nutrition in general, so an AI that tells me how much to eat what and when, would be great. Ideally it would just say "You need 35g of protein X before bed. The following foods contain it: A1, A2, A3." and I just go to the fridge and eat one of the A's it told me. This would combine information, analysis and choice.
I didnt hear anything discussed that was actually "AI". Simple algorithms may be able to sift through data more quickly than a human, but the intelligence is still with the designer.
(And Dan Bigham certainly represents intelligence, but he doesnt seem artificial 😂)
I was worried if it was only me. A little bit of research would have avoided it. Sounds like nobody at GCN heard about data models or predictive analytics before.
Couldn't find the link to bike vault!
With regards the 'pushing' of high end products it will always look that way when we see the bikes that you guys ride, and why shouldn't you, I would if I could afford it. The video of riding a cheap bike etc would not have helped the subject matter but seeing as you mentioned Decathlon why not try some of their great value low cosy bikes? My BTwin Triban3 is still going strong after several years out on the road in all the different weather conditions.
Week 45 of asking for a “the UCI has no jurisdiction here” T-shirt
I'd buy that
Just get your own made
"hurr durr uci dumb me smart 🤓"
GO! GO! GO! "Don't give up. Don't ever give up!!!"
I’ll stick with just route planning software and that’s it, thanks. 😅
I think all the complaints of bike costs don't fully take into account consumers. After commuting daily for 15 years I treated myself with my dream fairweather carbon fiber bike. The base 105 model. Every time I ride it I run into people with the same bike, but always models that cost 2-3 times as much even though they are often new to cycling. If most people are willing to pay you can't blame companies for making the products.
Aero sleeves = Twig Covers... Red = Safer on the roads and motorists will see you better. Matching red shorts, YES!
Red shorts you say... 🤔
So... I need AI to help my decision-making:
I'm doing Maratona dles Dolomites this summer. 6 years ago, I'd use a 7.2Kg Giant TCR with alloy rims and rim brakes.
I now have an 8.3Kg disk brake bike with 60mm deep wheels. I could reduce the weight to about 7.6Kg with some mods, like TPU tubes and lighter weight 30mm deep and wide rims and lighter saddle.
Which would be faster? Heavier, aero-wheeled DB bike, or lighter non-aero wheeled DB bike, or much lighter rim brake bike?
May be it's time Dan revisited the Maratona ( remember his video from ~ 8 years ago?)!
all I know is that Ollie has turned into The Terminator already. Or is that The Dropinator...?
If that Fara All-road is a super-nice standards have dropped too far. Bike was too small in the frame to see anything, it was squint to the wall it was propped up on, had giant white bottles still on it, valves and wheels completely out of alignment with each other meaning the wheel logos were way out. Plus ceramicspeed on a winter/all-road bike on which components will presumably get trashed by wet, gritty roads. It's a nice bike but they need to do better than that. This is the bike vault, you can't just let things in because they've got gucci parts.
With the experience I made with AI during studying for bachelor of engineering I’m expecting the Visma riders to bonk in the first stage of the tour 😄
You could be the panda podium uk branch 😁 another excellent video Luke. I have unfortunately lost interest in cycling at the moment just lost my mojo and put 20+ kg on in weight which i need to lose.
Friendly reminder regarding the TT bike, Si...Back to the Future took place 9 years ago.
Thanks Si , Dr O and crew..being a bit harsh on AI , when he can't defend himself ? Poor bugger !
They are fluctuating between old meaning of AI(hardcoded algorithms/math spitting out stats and probabilities to be analyzed by people) and new meaning of AI
While there are many similarities between "just statistics" and "AI", these are different things (e.g. if you use neural networks to train on datasets that's often better than simple logistic regressions), so it's not purely marketing.
Fantastic video! This will undoubtedly help de-mystify "AI". Indeed, on one hand AI is nothing more than we already do... crunch data on a computer. On the other hand, AI revolutionizes this data crunching through software, yes, but also new hardware compute paths. AI hardware doesn't use a traditional CPU but, instead, specialized versions of CPUs with many, many more "compute cores". This allows many, many more inputs to be evaluated and many, many more decision matrices to be linked. The end result is data output that is far more information-rich than before.
XERT already calculates how much you have left in the tank for efforts, you can visually see the point of implosion.....
Oy, you complain about overshoes in winter? Try being forced to ride studded tires! The tire alone weighs more than the rim and my summer tire 😶 Oh, the sensation of riding after changing back to summer tires again, lovely!
Thanks for great content!
And right out of gate , “here is our new kit”… for which you need to a mortgage 💸in order to get one… $440 ? I am sorry, but WHY?
Please GCN, elaborate on how you derived at this pricing ? Like seriously… can some one explain this….
Thanks
Ps
You guys just had a video where you discussed the prices of shorts back some years and current pricing … I believe you got your shorts for $20 or so come years ago… so back to today and your kit… $440 for a kit ?
I am not saying my Specialized Alize Sprint is an expensive bike but this kit is about 1/4 of the cost of my whole bike … something does not add up here!
Ohhh AERO sleeves… that is why it cost $440… silly me … maybe you guys should also start selling socks for $1000? 😮
Interesting use of words - "Superbike that they cannot afford" - I think there is also "price we do not choose to pay" ....
As £10,000 plus is not something I can commit to a hobby .....
So I build my own (more fun) around the £500-800 mark..
PS everything your talking about a great coach KNOWS or informed rider knows hopefully . Cheers GNC
if i had some "Ai" to help calculate my power etc for a ride...it would say, " jus stay in mate" it will only end in tears!
AI is more about hardware than software, I reckon. AI compute paths are far different than traditional and this is where the power of AI originates. The software simply facilitates the hardware by coding in a way to leverage the immense new compute paths.
Taking the Shimano suspension idea, sounds a bit like active suspension that F1 had 40 odd years ago, sounds like a great idea and the UCI will ensure there are no performance benefits.
We're very excited to see how it turns out 👀Keep your eyes peeled on the channel for more info soon!
GCN always make a point of honor to mention the value that Decathlon puts out. I think its irresponsable from them to not mention that they use forced labour in uyghurs camps in China. It is vastly known, and even the Euro parliament is talking about it. Sure, you can put out products that are super cheap when you basically use slavery. And they have been doing it since at least 2020.
🙏
Even though I don’t expect to be using AI in my cycling endeavors, if I turn my Garmin on and it tells me “Resistance is futile”, I’m leaving the bike where it’s at and switching to power walking.
I think for all the people complaining about bike prices, it’s more about priorities than affordability. I put more miles on my bikes than I do my car so I’m perfectly happy having $30k bike collection and a $5k car. The average new car price is 2024 is $48k and when you consider the spread, this leaves a lot of room to buy your dream bike and spend less of your car. It’s better for the environment anyway and you stay healthier.
Here in india you can get some of the new good budget friendly family cars at least for 12k USD. And motor bikes for 1-2k USD although not sports bikes and you are saying it's ok to pay more than 1k usd to get a bike with fukin claris or tourney which you can't even upgrade easily for cheap? And even if you can upgrade it you are still stuck at tiagra? Do you really think it's affordable? And fair?
I'm ok with all the monitoring, but real-time information and communication on the road during races I'd rather see dialed back. I feel there needs to be more human factor/error involved.
Even limit the size of the stage notes taped to frames. (Standardize the size allowable)
Currently it's feeling a bit too ... clinical. Riders becoming robots.
I’m wondering if Si can ring the bell without the face 🤔
Where Ollie comes from AI means ‘What Yes’
Garmins stamina score told my mate he had less than 1 percent stamina left. On a long ride i persuaded him to stretch himself on. He kept riding and got a second wind. Computer said no. Legs said yes.
I think AI will be incorporated with automatic shifting in the future when linked up with your power output, various biometric live data, your history, surrounding conditions and the route / stage / tour planned and can calculate the most efficient gear and send instructions about cadence and nutrition for the optimal performance for the moment, the next 10k, until the end of the stage or winning a grand tour - whatever your goal is.
I agree that this is the sweet spot. If it can tell me my optimum cadence and gear (or give me the gear) for optimising time or effort over the distance based on calorific, heartbeat and power data then it could be useful to us mortals.
This could be amazing, but at what point does this take away the fun from actually riding? Food for thought! 🤔
@@gcntech and how much swearing will it generate as it shifts up a gear on a steep hill because of crap data or an unexpected speed bump...
An AI Garmin paired with a power meter, heart rate, blood sugar monitor, hydration/electrolyte and lactate monitors could offer real-time pacing, nutrition, strategy and tactics. '2km 20% gradient ahead. Take 100ml of water, half a gel and reduce power to 150W.' The UCI may even force riders to wear skin monitors which record data in black box recorders to see what is 'going on' in there.
Is Ollie confusing “Bicentennial Man” with “The Sixth Sense” (or vice versa)? LoL.
Sixth sense and AI. The same boy is in both movies. In AI he is a robot who wants to become a real boy.
@@stevehughes975 Ah, ok. I’ve never seen AI. Thanks for clearing that up!
He knows his films. In GCN MegaBase he is known as IMDbridgewood
New Kit N O T HOT untill I see Conner in his.
Ollie needs to learn the difference between Data Analytics and AI. AI just takes its initial knowledge and makes predictions of the most likely outcome based on what it's been trained on. So it may pick a good route based on what others have ridden, but its take on cycle path design will be based on what's already out there - so probably not good. Ever heard of data bias?
It is OK knowing all this Ai stuff but it is also down to your rider on the day and also other riders on that day.
i have an idea of strava. since a lot of my cycling is in the city before i hit the country roads. Could Strava eliminate all speed under 18k an hour. For my average speed stats. Traffic, lights, stop signs, pedestrians, dogs etc... ruin my average speed. So eliminate that.
I have a question about the measure or how to measure bike bolts. I've got a bike seat that is using a larger bolt and want to change out the bolt with a titanium (weight). I am really having problems with understanding the "M" rating on these bolts.
Most of them I've looked at are M5 at the length of 30/35/40 mm, I understand the numbers I don't understand what the M means or how to determine how to figure it out when I look at a bolt and what sort of tools to use to determine the size.
The bolt I'm currently using has a round tubular nut is thicker in diameter than the M5 I ordered and sent back. When I look across the internet I can't seem to find a M6 only M5 seat bolt.
Not sure if my bike is the only one in the entire world uses this hefty heavy bolt. Please make a video to explain how bolts are measured and how we can figure that out.
Chris Froome passed all the time looking at his power meter of the bike computer
I see an AI based video in the future. Let it plan everything out for Hank for a week and see what happens.
What's a discount code for shopping :-)
Interesting AI conversation but to me it feels less like Artificial Intelligence and more like Automated Intelligence e.g. parse a load of data (too much for a human), apply a set of rules (written by human experts), determine scenarios and finally suggest the best plan/diet/tactics. IMHO true artificial intelligence is way off but I know it’s got a lot of investment and will eventually be something real rather than a marketing exercise.
I’m all for AI helping me make choices about food intake and workouts… in fact, some days AI can choose my work out and then go ahead and do my workout for me… then let me know how I’ve done 😅
Oh great, i've been riding with non-matching bottles for years! Another thing for me to get neurotic about.
And now it will live in your head for ever and ever!