You know I have never actually read it I started to just go into church history not from books put out by the church. I started to just look on the internet I started in 2008 and by the end of 2012 I was I just came to the conclusion it was Lie. To me it was looking at the DNA evidence and reading about actual archeology of the Americas nothing fitted.
"What does it say in the debunking?" " I don't know. I haven't read it. " OMHell , I genuinely laughed out loud. Good thing I wasn't drinking coffee when I heard that!!!
I'd never actually read the CES letter as I left the church before it came out (I saw the light in 2011). That is one of the most comprehensive and complete, but also concise consolidation of all the problems with the church. It's actually changed my thoughts on some things. I used to tell my husband that I thought the leaders probably didn't know the church is false. I'm much less certain of that now. Especially with the types of fields these people have been in. Anyways, thanks for mentioning it again. I'd heard enough mentions from you guys and Mr Atheist that I figured I should read it. Been out of the church 8 years and it still blew my mind.
I read it recently but I've been out of the church for 3 years. It blew my mind too. It makes sense why that one scource has made so many people leave the church. I would have left the church after just the first 30 pages Haha.
I love you guys so much! I've been out of the church records for over a month now! (stopped going three years ago) your videos help me a lot so thank you!
@@richardholmes7199 Google "SouthPark" 🎶Joseph Smith was called a prophet 🎵Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb 🎶Started the Mormon religion 🎵Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb
@@richardholmes7199 The Fair Mormon responses to the CES letter are not answers. Each video response is a textbook example of a method used by cults and narcissists to confuse people into questioning their own cognitive process. Called gas-lighting, it's a typical practice of the mormon church. Examples would be when Joseph to Emma that God wanted him to have sex with Fanny Alger in a barn, or BYU claiming that the reason that they didn't sell caffeine until recently is because there wasn't a demand on campus for caffeinated beverages or the way that the church changed it's stance of medical marijuana in Utah as soon as it used the Utah legislature to make sure the church gets it's cut of the profits. The attitude went from one where 'marijuana is most evil' to 'God wants us to alleviate all people's suffering.' The church is desperate to change it's entire history because people are starting to study it.
They say " You must be really lonely or deceived " or " There must be something wrong with you " or " it all comes down to faith " " Now they day you cannot criticize or even question " . Also please talk about the most recent priesthood session, Nelson called the teachers to spy on and oppose criticism, skepticism and questions in the church.
I saw Costco today had this new "study" book of mormon. I wish I had cards printed that said "CESletter.org" or something like that. Then I could put them in every BoM in Costco. That woudl be nice
The CES letter needs some updating. I hit up Jeremy up but he never got back to me. I wanted to provide some website work for him to update the html version of the ces letter. Easer ways to link to specific sections and such. There needs to be upkeep to the CES letter as too many members of the church believe its all been debunked.
@@richardholmes7199 Just listened. All I heard was indoctrinated people trying to make sense out of what happened in the past. If a woman was supposed to marry Joseph Smith, she would have been told by god to not marry another and wait till Josep approached her. But even after marrying another god "told" Joseph she was still supposed to be his. Riiiiggghhhttt. Totally how a loving god would act
99% of mormons: oh my gosh, why are anti - mormons always talking about the CES letter? also 99% of mormons: haven't read the CES letter or anything about it
My mother gave me that “it’s been debunked” lone when I told her I didn’t believe and she asked why and I said that a big reason was the CES letter (I’m still not out as trans but that’s the main reason). I said I was interested in reading the debunkings she’s said she read but it’s never been forwarded to me
*Another Zelph on the Shelf masterpiece.* Funny thing, I was in a high demand religion, but not well known at all (I think at the peak in 1979 we had a million members world-wide - in any case I don't want to give them any freed adverts).... anyway - your conversation here basically mirrors a discussion I had with an old and long distant friend talking about a similar thing as the CES letter to our little group. Other than terminology - the conversation went pretty much the same. LOL. I left 1 year later. She left 2 years later.
My mom read it she said that there is a lot of holes in the letter and that "We don't know how many wives Joseph Smith had and we don't know that Emma Smith didn't agree to a Joseph Smith was doing." and such...
@Teddygalbis and @Sierra Aranda this is what I told her but she won't listen to me lol it's not like Emma has shared her own side of the story before... lol
@@kaylaadams9413 Google ''Answering the CES Letter youtube'' Those videos EXPOSE the deceptive tactics employed by the author of the CES Letter Jeremy Runnels.
I love when members say I have read everything, I dont get why that person left the church over that stuff. I used to be one of them. And guess what, I barely scratched the surface of what there is to read. The members are just afraid that they are wrong, why they trust everthing they hear like "its been debunked" and then they dont even read the debunking.
That's disingenuous, There are numerous members like myself who have read countless original sources and still believe the Church is true. Most people just don't want to put in the hard work of reading through hundreds of pages of old documents. There is nothing I have come across in my studies that suggests the Church isn't true.
@@ex-mormonthanos9439 In my opinion, one of the biggest things that distinguishes the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are the witnesses of a physical aspect (the plates) as well as the spiritual aspect (the angel). The Book of Mormon is something that can be tested. Most of the religions that I have studied from the 19th century are bottom up, people have their own theologies and work with their well intentioned but often incorrect opinions. There are several reasons I think the restoration was done at this time in America. It was the only time the Church could have survived and even still it was almost wiped out. With the LDS Church I see something different, it was built from the top down, direct revelation from God. That doesn't mean it was always perfect, revelation is not necessarily a linear process. People think prophets are just mouthpieces that convey infallible doctrine but in reality they are trying to make sense of the revelation they receive just like everyone else is, but they have authority to direct the Church. I did grow up Mormon but I moved away from all religious stuff for a while so I think I definitely understand the opposing beliefs as I have held them in the past. You may try to employ the genetic fallacy but I don't believe that is a relevant argument. Out of curiosity, are you religious?
@@williamhenley8593 Christianity works slightly different. We read God's work and the verses that aren't clear to us we pray for understanding. When God reveals it to us, it's crystal clear. It sounds like you're saying, you receive revelations that are confusing, then struggle to figure out just what it means and that's why the prophets get it wrong sometimes. Isn't the purpose of a revelation to give you a clear understanding? Color me confused. 🙆 Also, it seems like from the beginning, the prophets have had their own philosophies and well intended, but sometimes incorrect, opinions.
I love your films, I love your comments about mormons, I love your new and old movies as well, but to be honest I would love to see something different on this channel too. Like your personalities is not only about LDS church. I want sth else too!
The 'Letter' wasn't addressed to me so I haven't read it. I don't open other people's mail because I strive to 'be honest in my dealings with my fellowmen' so I won't lose my temple recommend.
Sorry guytoe but, "the letter wasn't addressed to me" ?? I gotta ask, what else is on the internet that you won't read cos it's not addressed to you?🙆 Just messin with you. That was pretty cute and funny.🙋
Love your painted fingernails! The church is pretty smart telling members to avoid reading or watching anything against the church because it just isn't true. That is why eliminating the need for the church is taking so long; But it IS happening!
I've been reading through Bamboozled by the CES letter. It frustrates me that these LDS scholars give such long answers, they might be right be no one is going to spend the time reading it. Example in Alma and the Great Spirit, the CES letter says see the Book of Mormon teaches God is a spirit. The truth is at that moment in time Jehovah/Jesus was a spirit, he had not yet received his body. But the know it all scholar cant just say that.
as a mormon who has actually read it, a lot of the things are explainable. Every time there is an explanation the author writes it off as a theory of a "Church apologist". Not to mention the misconception that the church "lies" to us, when half of the information is pulled straight off of the church website. His biggest concern with the book of mormon is that its too similar to the Bible, which doesn't make very much sense considering that it was translated into modern English for that time, like the Bible. The entire thing pokes holes at the history of the founding of the church and not the gospel as a whole. The only time it ever mentions anything about the practices it only compares them to how they were originally done when the church was first discovered, which I personally find incredibly unfair considering that no church or religion practices exactly the same as they did when they were first founded.
Hahaha, I talked to my step dad about the Nauvoo Expositor and how Joseph had it destroyed. My step dad said it was because it lied about him. I asked if he read it and what the lies were... he never read it and couldn't say what the lie was 🤣🤣
No, we do talk about it. In fact I have read it numerous times and found that as far as scholarly work goes it is definitely lacking. Search for a channel called Kwaku, he exposes Zelph in his new video.
"What'd they say in the debunking?" "I haven't read it." The embodiment of the church, everyone! Mindlessly not even researching anything in their own "sources."
Hi! I love your channel so much. If you search up the hashtag, “LDS” into Instagram, a lot of memes made by Mormons who are still members of the Church, come up. The interesting thing about these memes is that in the captions, they kind of recognize a certain weird aspect of the Church, but then just the let meme kind of draw people’s attention (including their own) away from that weird thing, by poking fun at it (because the memes themselves are enjoyable but the things they’re making light of and ignoring are really kind of sinister and at least, weird). It’s so interesting and I would love to see your reactions to them if you have time to make that kind of video at some point. The Mormon meme accounts I’ve seen are: @molleemormon on Instagram and @laughingoutloudlds Thank you 💖
I've never heard anyone make these comments. I have heard people roll their eyes at the entire first chapter, which is easy to dismiss if you know what the italicized words mean and dont believe in biblical inerrancy. Then theres the map, which is the least compelling argument ever made. Then theres the fact that the whole thing was literally a Frankenstein of reddit comments. Then theres the "master egyptologist" whose actually a theatre major who specializes in musicals. Then theres the seven citation of a single source that's literally my anonymous friend said he knew a guy that knew Martin Harris being treated as more trustworthy than Harris' own statements reaffirming hist testimony. Then theres the paintings of a guy throwing up in a hat being touted as better than the art we have when each of them get the scene completely wrong as well. Then theres... I could literally go on all day. Buy Godmakers, stop wasting my time with your childish drivel.
So, explain it to me. You are Atheist (no god) and a pantheist (all is god) This seems confusing but I am sure it works somehow so just wondering. I take it you were a member of The Church of Jesus Christ.
"God" has historically been a word humans use to describe an all-knowing, omnipresent being. Pantheism equates "God" with the forces and laws of the universe-aka, everything. Given that everything in the universe is interconnected (as in, there's not separation between things like we think there is because it's ultimately just one giant mass of energy constantly being transferred from one source to another), "God" can be a word that encompasses that "everything". That's not to say that the universe (or "God", if you like) is sentient or conscious, just that "the universe" is one giant system which we are parts of and not separate from. Anything WE know, it can be said that the universe knows, because we are an inseparable part of it. We ARE the universe. Kind of like how if your brain knows something, you'd say that "you" know it, despite the brain being just one part of your body/you. It's a tough concept to explain in a youtube comment but hopefully that gave you some idea? Haha
@@ZelphOntheShelf Good enough explanation for me. I think in regular religion that people, even "mormons" will be somewhat surprised in the "next" life. I will stay with the Church and the idea of life after this earth. I understand atheists don't have hope of life beyond what we have here but are alright with it. Peace.
@@ZelphOntheShelf funny, my husband and I have been talking about God for awhile trying to figure out what we believe and we came up with this exact explanation without hearing it anywhere before. I didn't even know there was a name for it.
The CES Letter is a product of the all-or-nothing dichotomy that I never bought into as a member. I heard it preached but I put it in the white shirt box of other stupid ideas. I knew I liked the Book of Mormon and doing Family History and Temple work for myself and others. If the church would be happy with people, especially kids, just finding what they like about the church you wouldn’t have so many people getting squeezed out. And FTLOG get an actual theologian in a leadership position. If Hugh Nibley became president instead of Gordon B Hinkley, oh man.
@@ZelphOntheShelf The evidence is clearly presented, how could they possibly be ''intellectually dishonest''? By the way, the Egyptological assessments Jeremy Runnels included in the CES Letter have backfired.
@@smdh99 To say ''Mormon'' is just like saying, oh you can just equally say Mayhem, mean all Black Metal. Mormon was just some guy in the Book of Mormon, Mayhem is just one Black Metal band. By the way, Joseph Smith predicted the war between the states, the civil war as it is called, didn't he? The anti-Mormons say he just took what was at that time common knowledge, called it prophecy, I ask, how could Just Joseph Smith decide that?
Haha, you're not wrong ;) I guess the "never looking back" means not doubting our decision. We still care deeply about Mormons and ex-Mormons, hence why we make this content right now.
Not for criticizing us on Twitter. For making fun of the appearance of one of our friends who was vulnerable and undeserving of the attack. People who do things like that shouldn't be funded by a university to build their unkind platform.
@@loqutor Oh poor Kwaku! 😭😭😭 😎😎😎 Yo.. ya mess wid Jimmy da Greek n Fat Tony, yoos might fine urself swimmin wid da fishies. Capisce! Ok, I need sleep. 😴😪
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The CES letter changed my life in the most positive way I never expected!
Jesus Christ himself blessing us with his presence in this channel.
You know I have never actually read it I started to just go into church history not from books put out by the church. I started to just look on the internet I started in 2008 and by the end of 2012 I was I just came to the conclusion it was Lie. To me it was looking at the DNA evidence and reading about actual archeology of the Americas nothing fitted.
Thank you, savior of mankind
Jesus, are you still fucking Christ?
@@thuggie1 for me, it was my own family history. Brigham sent them to Dixie to die
"It is AMAZING people can't think for themselves." LOL
"i haven't read it"
the tea is PIPING hot
You're piping hot
I'm absolutely loving how much Zelph content has come out this week.
I love these "how mormons talk about" videos. Keep 'em coming!
"It's satan I guess." The default answer to anything that challenges LDS doctrine.
I need like 45 more of these. Minimally. “How Mormons talk about / justify policy changes”
The Church can be progressive.
"What does it say in the debunking?"
" I don't know. I haven't read it. "
OMHell , I genuinely laughed out loud. Good thing I wasn't drinking coffee when I heard that!!!
Drinking my apostate coffee, that is
I'd never actually read the CES letter as I left the church before it came out (I saw the light in 2011).
That is one of the most comprehensive and complete, but also concise consolidation of all the problems with the church.
It's actually changed my thoughts on some things. I used to tell my husband that I thought the leaders probably didn't know the church is false. I'm much less certain of that now. Especially with the types of fields these people have been in.
Anyways, thanks for mentioning it again. I'd heard enough mentions from you guys and Mr Atheist that I figured I should read it. Been out of the church 8 years and it still blew my mind.
I read it recently but I've been out of the church for 3 years. It blew my mind too. It makes sense why that one scource has made so many people leave the church. I would have left the church after just the first 30 pages Haha.
Google ''Answering the CES Letter youtube'' Those videos EXPOSE the deceptive tactics employed by the author of the CES Letter Jeremy Runnels.
I love you guys so much! I've been out of the church records for over a month now! (stopped going three years ago) your videos help me a lot so thank you!
Go back bitch!
Google ''Answering the CES Letter youtube''
@@richardholmes7199 no one cares.
New life goal: distribute the CES letter in front of an LDS church, but with “the Book of Mormon” written on the front cover
Google ''Answering the CES Letter youtube''
@@richardholmes7199
Google "SouthPark"
🎶Joseph Smith was called a prophet
🎵Dumb dumb dumb
dumb dumb
🎶Started the Mormon religion
🎵Dumb dumb dumb
dumb dumb
@@richardholmes7199 The Fair Mormon responses to the CES letter are not answers. Each video response is a textbook example of a method used by cults and narcissists to confuse people into questioning their own cognitive process. Called gas-lighting, it's a typical practice of the mormon church. Examples would be when Joseph to Emma that God wanted him to have sex with Fanny Alger in a barn, or BYU claiming that the reason that they didn't sell caffeine until recently is because there wasn't a demand on campus for caffeinated beverages or the way that the church changed it's stance of medical marijuana in Utah as soon as it used the Utah legislature to make sure the church gets it's cut of the profits. The attitude went from one where 'marijuana is most evil' to 'God wants us to alleviate all people's suffering.' The church is desperate to change it's entire history because people are starting to study it.
@@areafifty Oh, is that what it is? Like I haven't heard that from your anti-Mormon cult before.
@@areafifty By the way, you didn't refute the video titled ''Answering the CES Letter''. Appears FairMormon won.
Y'all's videos seriously help me so much in getting thru the week, thank you guys for your hard work!
PLEASE KEEP COMING OUT WITH MORE MORMON SKITS I LOVE IT ITS HILARIOUS AND I LOVE YOU GUYS
They say " You must be really lonely or deceived " or " There must be something wrong with you " or " it all comes down to faith " " Now they day you cannot criticize or even question " . Also please talk about the most recent priesthood session, Nelson called the teachers to spy on and oppose criticism, skepticism and questions in the church.
What talk was that?
Oh my gosh hahaha! The end... "I haven't read it" cracks me up!!
I saw Costco today had this new "study" book of mormon. I wish I had cards printed that said "CESletter.org" or something like that. Then I could put them in every BoM in Costco. That woudl be nice
Jeremy Runnels is my most favorite person ever
"People can't think for themselves" Exactly how I felt in the church.
You guys are fckin killing it!!
Love these videos
The CES letter needs some updating. I hit up Jeremy up but he never got back to me. I wanted to provide some website work for him to update the html version of the ces letter. Easer ways to link to specific sections and such. There needs to be upkeep to the CES letter as too many members of the church believe its all been debunked.
Fuck the members. If this isnt good enough then they deserve to get ripped
@@personalvideos213 Google ''Answering the CES Letter youtube''
Dude most of the arguments have been debunked. I've read through it numerous times.
@@williamhenley8593 Alright, give me an example of something in the CES letter that is wrong. Lets start a discussion on it
@@richardholmes7199 Just listened. All I heard was indoctrinated people trying to make sense out of what happened in the past. If a woman was supposed to marry Joseph Smith, she would have been told by god to not marry another and wait till Josep approached her. But even after marrying another god "told" Joseph she was still supposed to be his. Riiiiggghhhttt. Totally how a loving god would act
hahahhahahaha. lol took me a while to catch on to what you were doing here. this is great stuff! much love, from South Africa.
Give us more !!
😂😂😂😂 I can't stop laughing
99% of mormons: oh my gosh, why are anti - mormons always talking about the CES letter?
also 99% of mormons: haven't read the CES letter or anything about it
They're shown a well written, sourced, credited letter proving that their organization is false and all they see is a grocery list.
My mother gave me that “it’s been debunked” lone when I told her I didn’t believe and she asked why and I said that a big reason was the CES letter (I’m still not out as trans but that’s the main reason). I said I was interested in reading the debunkings she’s said she read but it’s never been forwarded to me
*Another Zelph on the Shelf masterpiece.* Funny thing, I was in a high demand religion, but not well known at all (I think at the peak in 1979 we had a million members world-wide - in any case I don't want to give them any freed adverts).... anyway - your conversation here basically mirrors a discussion I had with an old and long distant friend talking about a similar thing as the CES letter to our little group. Other than terminology - the conversation went pretty much the same. LOL. I left 1 year later. She left 2 years later.
You guys are amazing ❤️
My mom read it she said that there is a lot of holes in the letter and that "We don't know how many wives Joseph Smith had and we don't know that Emma Smith didn't agree to a Joseph Smith was doing." and such...
I mean according to all of my BYU professors we do know sooo
@Teddygalbis and @Sierra Aranda this is what I told her but she won't listen to me lol it's not like Emma has shared her own side of the story before... lol
@Melodi Adams Yes! Exactly it's nice to hear from people who actually know Emma's story and not the stupid lies the church keeps telling about.
Google ''Answering the CES Letter youtube''
@@richardholmes7199
Google :
I'm trapped in a cult and I can't get out.
I've lost my "agency"
Mormons don't even know about the CES letter
The CES Letter is all lies.
@@richardholmes7199 The book of Mormon is all lies.
@@kaylaadams9413 No, it's not either.
@@richardholmes7199 Have you read the CES letter? How can a list of questions be lies? 🤣 #Brainwashed
@@kaylaadams9413 Google ''Answering the CES Letter youtube'' Those videos EXPOSE the deceptive tactics employed by the author of the CES Letter Jeremy Runnels.
I am ALL over the idea of making the CES letter into scripture so I can quickly and easily reference it and quote it. ;-p
As facts! And they are ignorant biggots for not even reading the truth
Google ''Answering the CES Letter youtube''
@@richardholmes7199
Google ;
Watch Mormon spokesmen attempt to explain away another "church of a false Jesus Christ of latter day saints" scandal.
OMFG you guys! Love it 🤣🤣🤣🤣
“Just people parrotting what other people say” EXACTLY!!!
I mean, they should really doubt their doubts.
So if someone pointed out errors they are hateful?
I got a book of mormon ad on this...
Let em waste their money. Lol
I love when members say I have read everything, I dont get why that person left the church over that stuff. I used to be one of them. And guess what, I barely scratched the surface of what there is to read. The members are just afraid that they are wrong, why they trust everthing they hear like "its been debunked" and then they dont even read the debunking.
That's disingenuous, There are numerous members like myself who have read countless original sources and still believe the Church is true. Most people just don't want to put in the hard work of reading through hundreds of pages of old documents. There is nothing I have come across in my studies that suggests the Church isn't true.
@@williamhenley8593 And what suggests that it is more than it just being another church to come out of the 19 century? Did you grow up mormon?
@@ex-mormonthanos9439 In my opinion, one of the biggest things that distinguishes the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are the witnesses of a physical aspect (the plates) as well as the spiritual aspect (the angel). The Book of Mormon is something that can be tested. Most of the religions that I have studied from the 19th century are bottom up, people have their own theologies and work with their well intentioned but often incorrect opinions. There are several reasons I think the restoration was done at this time in America. It was the only time the Church could have survived and even still it was almost wiped out. With the LDS Church I see something different, it was built from the top down, direct revelation from God. That doesn't mean it was always perfect, revelation is not necessarily a linear process. People think prophets are just mouthpieces that convey infallible doctrine but in reality they are trying to make sense of the revelation they receive just like everyone else is, but they have authority to direct the Church. I did grow up Mormon but I moved away from all religious stuff for a while so I think I definitely understand the opposing beliefs as I have held them in the past. You may try to employ the genetic fallacy but I don't believe that is a relevant argument. Out of curiosity, are you religious?
@@williamhenley8593
"the truth isn't always useful"
Yeah....who needs the truth?
Thanks Dallin Oaks
@@williamhenley8593
Christianity works slightly different. We read God's work and the verses that aren't clear to us we pray for understanding. When God reveals it to us, it's crystal clear.
It sounds like you're saying, you receive revelations that are confusing, then struggle to figure out just what it means and that's why the prophets get it wrong sometimes.
Isn't the purpose of a revelation to give you a clear understanding?
Color me confused. 🙆
Also, it seems like from the beginning, the prophets have had their own philosophies and well intended, but sometimes incorrect, opinions.
Google ''Jim Bennett refutes the CES Letter''.
Love you guys!
I love your films, I love your comments about mormons, I love your new and old movies as well, but to be honest I would love to see something different on this channel too. Like your personalities is not only about LDS church. I want sth else too!
What about cooking videos? Or book recommendations? That'd be dope
Wow This is really made me “doubt my doubts”
"What did it say in the debunking?"
"I don't know I haven't read it"
Most theists lol
The 'Letter' wasn't addressed to me so I haven't read it. I don't open other people's mail because I strive to 'be honest in my dealings with my fellowmen' so I won't lose my temple recommend.
They're not really personal letters, it wouldn't be dishonest to read them.
+guytoe - that is right. We commend you for your integrity
Ok ok I guess it's OK. I'm reading it now...Oh Lord, my God!!!
Sorry guytoe but, "the letter wasn't addressed to me" ??
I gotta ask, what else is on the internet that you won't read cos it's not addressed to you?🙆
Just messin with you.
That was pretty cute and funny.🙋
Love your painted fingernails! The church is pretty smart telling members to avoid reading or watching anything against the church because it just isn't true. That is why eliminating the need for the church is taking so long; But it IS happening!
Awesome! Gotta work on those hard Rs. Wait...not with all words.
First? Awesome channel!
Love it!
I sent you a million dollars...in Kirtland bank notes...
FAIRisees "debunked" the CES letter.
Hi Tom 👋
How they say a Mormon reacts:
How a smart Mormon reacts: Time to debunk! this should be fun
Oh shoot that's funny!
Well the CES letter isn’t made by one guy, it’s l crowd sourced, but yeah.
I've been reading through Bamboozled by the CES letter. It frustrates me that these LDS scholars give such long answers, they might be right be no one is going to spend the time reading it.
Example in Alma and the Great Spirit, the CES letter says see the Book of Mormon teaches God is a spirit. The truth is at that moment in time Jehovah/Jesus was a spirit, he had not yet received his body.
But the know it all scholar cant just say that.
Hey can you guys link the letter? Wanna read it as an ex Mormon 😏
as a mormon who has actually read it, a lot of the things are explainable. Every time there is an explanation the author writes it off as a theory of a "Church apologist". Not to mention the misconception that the church "lies" to us, when half of the information is pulled straight off of the church website. His biggest concern with the book of mormon is that its too similar to the Bible, which doesn't make very much sense considering that it was translated into modern English for that time, like the Bible. The entire thing pokes holes at the history of the founding of the church and not the gospel as a whole. The only time it ever mentions anything about the practices it only compares them to how they were originally done when the church was first discovered, which I personally find incredibly unfair considering that no church or religion practices exactly the same as they did when they were first founded.
Hahaha, I talked to my step dad about the Nauvoo Expositor and how Joseph had it destroyed. My step dad said it was because it lied about him. I asked if he read it and what the lies were... he never read it and couldn't say what the lie was 🤣🤣
This should’ve just been click bait to a black screen that just says “they don’t. They don’t talk about it.”
But Jk this was perfect!
No, we do talk about it. In fact I have read it numerous times and found that as far as scholarly work goes it is definitely lacking. Search for a channel called Kwaku, he exposes Zelph in his new video.
Hilarious
"What'd they say in the debunking?"
"I haven't read it."
The embodiment of the church, everyone! Mindlessly not even researching anything in their own "sources."
too funny
I loved the irony here.
So ironic
Paging Kwaku, Stephen Smoot, et al.
lol
The brother of Kwaku has seen Jesus' fingers!
Kwaku has exposed Zelph in his newest video.
@@williamhenley8593
No... Kwaku exposed himself
@@smdh99 How can you say that when Kwaku was able to objectively point out the things Zelph got wrong and lied about?
If it is Satan, he sure is good at citing evidence.
Hi! I love your channel so much.
If you search up the hashtag, “LDS” into Instagram, a lot of memes made by Mormons who are still members of the Church, come up. The interesting thing about these memes is that in the captions, they kind of recognize a certain weird aspect of the Church, but then just the let meme kind of draw people’s attention (including their own) away from that weird thing, by poking fun at it (because the memes themselves are enjoyable but the things they’re making light of and ignoring are really kind of sinister and at least, weird). It’s so interesting and I would love to see your reactions to them if you have time to make that kind of video at some point.
The Mormon meme accounts I’ve seen are:
@molleemormon on Instagram
and
@laughingoutloudlds
Thank you 💖
Google ''Book of Abraham pt 1 (Why Egyptologists are wrong) youtube''.
Sounds fun
I've never heard anyone make these comments. I have heard people roll their eyes at the entire first chapter, which is easy to dismiss if you know what the italicized words mean and dont believe in biblical inerrancy.
Then theres the map, which is the least compelling argument ever made.
Then theres the fact that the whole thing was literally a Frankenstein of reddit comments. Then theres the "master egyptologist" whose actually a theatre major who specializes in musicals. Then theres the seven citation of a single source that's literally my anonymous friend said he knew a guy that knew Martin Harris being treated as more trustworthy than Harris' own statements reaffirming hist testimony. Then theres the paintings of a guy throwing up in a hat being touted as better than the art we have when each of them get the scene completely wrong as well. Then theres... I could literally go on all day.
Buy Godmakers, stop wasting my time with your childish drivel.
This is fake but it EMITS the bad vibes I get from people in the church so much, holy heck
😆
WHEN are you going to do a video on the Egyptologists being debunked?
So, explain it to me. You are Atheist (no god) and a pantheist (all is god) This seems confusing but I am sure it works somehow so just wondering. I take it you were a member of The Church of Jesus Christ.
"God" has historically been a word humans use to describe an all-knowing, omnipresent being. Pantheism equates "God" with the forces and laws of the universe-aka, everything. Given that everything in the universe is interconnected (as in, there's not separation between things like we think there is because it's ultimately just one giant mass of energy constantly being transferred from one source to another), "God" can be a word that encompasses that "everything". That's not to say that the universe (or "God", if you like) is sentient or conscious, just that "the universe" is one giant system which we are parts of and not separate from. Anything WE know, it can be said that the universe knows, because we are an inseparable part of it. We ARE the universe. Kind of like how if your brain knows something, you'd say that "you" know it, despite the brain being just one part of your body/you.
It's a tough concept to explain in a youtube comment but hopefully that gave you some idea? Haha
@@ZelphOntheShelf Good enough explanation for me. I think in regular religion that people, even "mormons" will be somewhat surprised in the
"next" life. I will stay with the Church and the idea of life after this earth. I understand atheists don't have hope of life beyond what we have here but are alright with it. Peace.
@@ZelphOntheShelf funny, my husband and I have been talking about God for awhile trying to figure out what we believe and we came up with this exact explanation without hearing it anywhere before. I didn't even know there was a name for it.
The CES Letter is a product of the all-or-nothing dichotomy that I never bought into as a member. I heard it preached but I put it in the white shirt box of other stupid ideas. I knew I liked the Book of Mormon and doing Family History and Temple work for myself and others. If the church would be happy with people, especially kids, just finding what they like about the church you wouldn’t have so many people getting squeezed out. And FTLOG get an actual theologian in a leadership position. If Hugh Nibley became president instead of Gordon B Hinkley, oh man.
Google ''Answering the CES Letter youtube'' Those videos expose the deceptive tactics employed by the author of the CES Letter Jeremy Runnels.
Lol nah they don’t, they’re intellectually dishonest. And we know Jeremy, he’s a wonderful person.
@@ZelphOntheShelf The evidence is clearly presented, how could they possibly be ''intellectually dishonest''? By the way, the Egyptological assessments Jeremy Runnels included in the CES Letter have backfired.
Google :
Where my life went wrong;
Mormon mayhem/
Prophets gone wild 😲
@@smdh99 To say ''Mormon'' is just like saying, oh you can just equally say Mayhem, mean all Black Metal. Mormon was just some guy in the Book of Mormon, Mayhem is just one Black Metal band. By the way, Joseph Smith predicted the war between the states, the civil war as it is called, didn't he? The anti-Mormons say he just took what was at that time common knowledge, called it prophecy, I ask, how could Just Joseph Smith decide that?
@@richardholmes7199
😂😂😂😂
U funny Boo! 🙆
You guys have a pretty weird definition of "leaving the LDS Church and never looking back".
Haha, you're not wrong ;) I guess the "never looking back" means not doubting our decision. We still care deeply about Mormons and ex-Mormons, hence why we make this content right now.
@@ZelphOntheShelf Oh really? Is that why you report them to their universities for criticizing you on Twitter?
Not for criticizing us on Twitter. For making fun of the appearance of one of our friends who was vulnerable and undeserving of the attack. People who do things like that shouldn't be funded by a university to build their unkind platform.
@@loqutor
Oh poor Kwaku!
😭😭😭 😎😎😎
Yo.. ya mess wid
Jimmy da Greek n Fat Tony,
yoos might fine urself swimmin wid da fishies.
Capisce!
Ok, I need sleep. 😴😪