I am moved listening to this. At 58 years old, 22 years sober, lots of therapy, a solid loving marriage and grown children, a life of conscious service, i wonder whether the healing EVER gets down deep enough to prevent in lower moments the slide down the steep glass sides of the mountain. The ego just makes such monumental efforts to get in the way! It's exhausting, and listening in to this conversation helps me to realise that i lack a life goal at this time. Actually I am waiting, because i've been advised to wait rather than to initiate. But without a meaningful goal, there's a creeping feeling that it's all over, pointless to continue, little to look forward to, no surprises or revelations to access. Not true, i know. But whoever said 'If you're not busy being born, you're busy dying' had a point. Thanks to this team for reminding me that soul healing is a meaningful goal in itself.
As Jung himself said: ‘Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside, awakens.’ I often feel similar to what you’re expressing, it’s like ‘what am I actually doing?’ And, that’s useful, but only to an extent. We need to be doing things externally for sure. However, seeking to understand ourselves is I believe the biggest purpose of all. Without doing this, we cannot learn, grow and improve. If we can’t do these things, we cannot help and impact others in the way we would like to. We need to look inwards, then pass on that wisdom to our children. So, fellow stranger on the internet, you’re doing well. Don’t be hard on yourself for not having some sort of tangible higher purpose or ‘life goal.’ You’re raising and nurturing a family. If there’s anything more important in life than this, I’m yet to see it. You’re doing your best, and when you’re not, forgive yourself and keep going.
I KNOW, 51 and I've been in therapy twice and I have all the awareness but I am still trying to undo the WOUNDs. I'm happy and confident until somebody projects their wound on to me. I have a cousin who has not worked on her wounds at all and she gives me the silent treatment when she sees me (while love bombing everybody else) and suddenly the content, easy going, warm person who can connect easily with other people just withers. This woman whose wounds are similar to my own but never dealt with and projected on to me in the form of a silent treatment, I seem to wither in her presence and she takes over in a very socially dominant way.
I think it's really important to discern between goal and meaning...for me Joseph Campbell said it best..' we are looking not for meaning,but to feel alive."
This is so true, my mother doesn't even allow me to have my own perspective and if I do, I get the silent treatment. I have gone through life feeling that If I assert myself, that's an aggression and I'll be shut down for it.
"The silence treatment" that so true as well as asserting myself will be an agression and shuting down my will and voice ! But now I'm in conflict of expression (conflict is a good thing) and do hold and will facing this mother.
@@brandonleroux6059 agree...i'm in 12 steps adult children and I need more to help my comples PTSD from severe child abuse by sperm donar and abandonment by mom (alcoholic) and I don't have the $$ to get pro help, so I wait till I get older and pass on and get free of my damage
This was an amazing talk. The healing of the feminine is crucial to humanities evolution. The feminine flows, is intuitive, creative, trusting the cosmos, not living in fear, resentment, shame or anger. This is representative of a larger issue of men and women not being in touch with that aspect of themselves and women being mistreated by that distorted masculine. Then not healing from this before cultivating romantic partnerships and bearing children. It's like a vicious cycle as the self realization many times comes later in life after the damage has already been done to the next generation of men and women. It's up to us to break the cycle once there is conscious awareness and that requires reflection and cultivated stillness. It requires personal will to change and break from the illusion.
My mother had a narcissistic mother herself. Her needs were not met beyond the physical, so emotional and mental needs were neglected. That was my experience with my mother. Physical needs were met but with little emotion beyond feeling sorry for me. I'm now becoming aware of those unmet needs, namely emotional and mental, which I'm addressing now after all these years. It has brought up tremendous anger then sadness but with that I'm starting to meet my own needs and becoming more open to asking my needs to be met. Conversely I'm more there for others - my wife and family. I've never found a career that was fulfilling nor felt I carved a place for myself in the world. The terrible mother would tear me down when I tried because I lacked the stability of a well developed ego thus ran from my dragons. I didn't have the support and confidence to pushed through. While my mother wasn't a witch, just exhausted and clueless, my father on the other hand was terrible - rageful, self centred, spiteful, abusive. As I connected with my childhood trauma I somehow found the strength to see myself and undertake the task of developing myself and connecting with the unconscious, personal and collective.
My Jungian Analyst asked me once if I had a special friend, you know, someone to confide in? I said no, she said she would be my friend then. I don't know if this is good practice or not however she did make it clear to me that I was pretty much unparented, my mother is a right cunt particularly as far as I'm concerned. Nevertheless this 'Boy Named Sue' story has produced great artistic creations, as James Hollis once wrote to me 'amazing what can come out of these situations' and told me he'd put one of my paintings as his screen image, all well and good but nothing in this life for me really
I think you and I had the same Mom. My Dad was generally wonderful, but had all the S/S of Bi Polar breaking through at times. I'm 56 and had no clue it was Mom's issues (deprived childhood) that caused so many of my issues. About 60 / 40, I'd say. It's so hard sometimes coming to Truth, I think. Do you agree ? Cheers to us...
Sam, that's a long, arduous road. Congratulations. Some of our childhoods overlap My Dad was passive, with empathy. Mom's mother had 7 kids and was ill and unavailable throughout Mom's childhood. It's a generational thing. By now you must have been through lots of depression, as have I. Hopefully, they are down, now, to an off day. You sound good. 🤗 Be Proud of your significant progress. You are STRONG.
Wow, almost exact same story for me! Maternal grandmother was a narcissist, mother emotionally wounded. Always loved us but she couldn’t deal with the emotional realm. Father was abusive and matched the narcissism of my mothers mother (Jung said an unfortunate potential consequence of “resistance to mother” complex which described my mother well). Have done great healing with this and has impacted relationship with my mother very positively! Amazing to see someone go from psychological stagnation to evolution later in life. 💕
"Being in a garbage disposal " was perfect descriptions MY life with my narcissist drunken mother was worse then multiple year incarcerate in Texas & New Jersey for a few years
I have listened to this podcast three times. I take notes. I write in my dream journal. I write in my PINK BOOK journal. Thank you and all your clients who have made a trail I can follow.
I just discovered your podcast and it’s just great. I’m currently exploring my mother complex since it seems I’ve buried it completely, but as Jung said, it’s very much alive and a driving force. Thank you.
Thank you so much. The three of you are just amazing, what a powerful concept, the three of you discussing psychological subjects with so much knowledge, wisdom, insight and warmth. It is always tremendously enriching and also fun to listen to your talks.
I have both... Emotional and psychological neglect with my mother and complete disconnect with my daughter, from the day she was born it was that way. An astrologer once told me that are charts were squared eachother, so hence the friction. Yet I have a devotional relationship with the Divine Mother. So happy I found this even 4 years after being put out. I will say I have a super hard challenging journey forgiving my mother, so many wounds. Listening to this was so affirming and healing. I was a colicky baby and cried a lot so much so that I had to have a hernia operation when I was 6 months old. My mother had me when she was 21 years old, she once said to me, that she couldn't handle my crying anymore and she said to my grandmother I understand why mothers throw their babies against the wall. Needless to say my grandmother picked me up and took me home to her house
I practiced ob-gyn for 30 years. Looking back I think it was an attempt to heal and make peace with the feminine after being raised by an unpredictable mother and disabled sister- a disability my mother blamed on me. At the very least I am now open to questions and a range of answers.
I’m, after two years working on my shadows and reintegrating parts of my self, in a stage where the mother complex (travestied) since it was the mother I created to take care of me while i was in the survival mode in the absence of love in my younger life, started showing up in my dreams trying to impose me to old habits but my reaction was fighting back. That’s why I started doing the work for the mother complex, understanding that i creat this spectrum to take command in the pass but that’s not useful anymore in the adult life and with me building self love. I had occasions where i was possessed for this angriness in moments that I allowed myself being insecure in this process of understanding and avoidance to this spectrum that keeps trying to make me avoid any situation that makes me vulnerable and try to sabotage any kind of relationship. It’s a lot of work but it’s amazing that i can even in my dreams to fight back this impulses and that it gets weaker with my progress.
I must listen to this again. And again. So much speaks to me! At age 75, having done so much inner and outer work already, I am getting a glimpse of how I might be acting out certain of my mom's qualities that either attract or repel others. I can be terrifying or charming in my affect!
I dare to say as a response to us “protecting the therapists by not revealing much”. I’ve been in therapy when I didn’t want to risk being rejected and I didn’t say much and I noticed the only therapy that worked for me was when I was being constantly affirmed. It feels awkward at the beginning but then one day it feels normal. Afterwards I needed to be treated like an adult, but I never thought not to hurt the therapist, I thought they were strong, I just didn’t want to hurt myself by saying too much.
I understand. I withheld much when in therapy for various reasons. The more open and honest you can be, the better chance you will have to make progress for emotional growth. Maybe work on the mutual trust to allow yourself to access deeper levels within yourself. ❤
This is excellent and highly illuminating You seem to omit is the effect upon men of the mother complex that is often expressed through misogyny and violence against women. In an increasingly people centred society that places emotion as central to experience the inability that men have to metabolise emotion has often tragic results for both men and women.
Could it be that men in our society fear the innate wisdom of women? Because they are threatened by women's intuitive nature. They do their best to put us down. Not all men hate their mothers...😮 They feel more powerful by sticking together. There are many different ways to look at all problems. Let's face it...men have lost much of their identities in the last 25 years! Therefore, everyone is a bit confused.
When I'm not sure what the "work of the day" looks like, I draw upon my intuition to select a meaningful Episode. If there were a transcript of this Episode, I would highlight so much there would be little not designated! I am in the middle of the task of making something meaningful of my mother's "inheritance" before I die!
Been strong in my choosing to never sign up or into anything ever. I made a TH-cam thing and actually linked an email TODAY. NOW, JUST TO COMMENT HERE. Ok, im sorry its so dramatic but im scared for my babies! Im so broken and affected from my mother and its affecting and my parenting abilities. I am like watching this dumpster fire paralyzed from afar and all i can seem to do is freaking cry, avoid, and numb. Im isolated, and not mobile and I know im completely blowing it. I do not want my children to be negatively affected from me! I am trying to be as willing and vulnerable and open to whatever it takes to stop this fire and rebuild!
I'm open to all suggestions or help please and thank you. I'm grateful for all the amazing compassionate research and understanding that you all are sharing.
It does take a very long time, healing a Negative Mother Complex. I was able to identify my version. It's amazing that you not only described it, but gave me some unheard, and not known things to ponder. Certainly the three of you can understand how convoluted and confusing the Negative Mother Complex is. Since originally writing here, I've decided that mom never bonded with me. I am the 4th and last child. She was told that I would be a boy (who would have been her second son, not her 3rd daughter.) She always took care of physical needs, and maintained a lovely home. All emotional defining growth and tender loving care were absent. I'm wondering of she projected her unfulfilled sexuality onto me. I was "boy crazy" from age 4.
omg! I think I've resolved the negative mother complex. But, now, what about the Father Complex! It simply goes on and on. I agree. We never can end self analysis because each day, I uncover some other piece of my puzzle that I've been attempting to understand since my mid 20s! We can only become wiser than our complexes. This is as good as it gets. ❤❤❤
@ayesha8809 thank you for asking. I read your comment early in the morning today. I was not ready for the day, so I drifted off again to sleep. Your comment must have triggered a dream. Here it is: I was in a room where a tiny baby was quietly sobbing. This upset me, so I gently picked the baby up and began to soothe her/him with rocking and talking. Surprisingly, the baby 👶 stopped crying and reached out, touching my face. There was also a young woman in the room. I asked her if she knew why the baby was distressed. She said that it was because her mother never comforted her baby. (17.5 was when I finally escaped living at home - I was off to college.) I asked the young woman her age. She looked 19 but was only 17.5 years old. (The baby was not hers.) I woke up and attempted to listen to this dream. (I'll relay the short version.) I've had my baby picture on a bookshelf many years and only occasionally glanced at her. A month or so ago, I began talking 👄 to her, telling her that I love her and that I understand how she must feel. Could the dream be telling me that my analysis of being psychologically rejected by my mother is correct, and now baby self has heard me speaking to her? Has this very old and deep wound been healed? I feel that my morning dream is saying to me that we are now one, both healed. Thank you 😊 so much for asking about the resolution. Sometimes, dreams are gifts from the universe.
My mother was great, why cant i remember her at all lol. But seriously , you should mention Pink Floyds song Mother, , the overprotective fearful mother, and also the book The drama of the gifted child, those are what I can relate to the most. After a lot of therapy our relationship is pretty good now
Alice Millers 1st edition was great. I have no idea why she rewrote it. Hint- her son found her rather unpleasant and frustrating. Idk she wasn't my mother. If I recall correctly it could be she was taking about anxious preoccupied attachment and their ability to read people; especially put others first before themselves. It does have a borderline quality.
The Haghia Sophia is not a temple to the goddess Sophia, but to Holy Wisdom, one of the attributes of God. Wisdom is anthropomorphized in Scripture, but that has always been understood as poetic license. Intellectual rigor should never be replaced by wishful thinking.
This is indeed a mesmerizing illustration of Maternal Archetype. Jungian analysis of mother complex & role of animus is intense than object relation theorists. Thanks❤😊
Nope: I had a horribly intentionally abusive mother that knew exactly what she was doing. No children’s services to get a child away from that. The damage is horrendous. The idea that it is not intentional sometimes is ludicrous.
I'm consuming these ravenously! I love Jungs work and I'm really into Psychological Types and everything that stemmed from that, as well as archetypes.....its the only kind Psychology I relate to and that actually makes sense to me xx
I'm not sure if these are the ones on Spotify but I'm pretty sure they are, my only gripe is the audio on Spotify It sounds like it's reduced when it was uploaded
This is Deep...The whole part of denying oneself is something I'm seeing with a friend of mine at work. And he revealed to me that his mother was very physically abusive....
The lived experience felt-sense of being ground up in a garbage disposal, or (as I felt a few years ago during an intense period) being chopped up and one's body parts pressed through a colander, may be interpreted as an initiation into shamanic realms.
I love these talks and am happy to contribute on Patreon, but I've noticed that ads are getting so frequent that they are nearly untenable. I'm seeing them appear now every FOUR MINUTES, which seems excessive to me and is such an interruption to the flow of the conversation.
my dad went to a psychiatric hospital with paranoia and depression but my mum and dad are a real unit and it is my mother who won't allow me my own perspective. Somehow, I have emerged in the family with the label ''paranoid'' and none of them sees anything strange there, even though I put it to them that it was something to think about surely. It just made them angry of course. My mum and Dad kept their respectable family together by projecting all of their low self esteem on to me and when I called time on it, they called me sensitive, emotional, angry and now they and my enmeshed golden child brother are all 3 giving me the silent treatment! All because I said stop calling me paranoid. And I wouldn't back down and say sorry.
In many ways bringing a child into the world is a very selfish thing to do...im not sure ive ever heard any parent admit or address that..most of the time they only recognize their sacrifice and that underlies the abuse they inflict on their children
So which is it, the animus saves us or the healing that comes in relationship does? Maybe it's both. My understanding of the animus is that is the woman's relating function. Perhaps if you slay the complexes and allow the positive forces of the animus to animate you as a woman, you will then be able to properly relate to others.
Trigger warning - Sexual Assault ............. .............. ............. Right on. It took 44 Ayahuasca ceremonies for me to get at some of my mother complex, and that was after several decades of trying other methods to work on it. My mother complex involved a sort of extreme neglect and touch deprivation. I’d read that it was so, but was surprised to find that ultimately the neglect was worse than the abuse. I did my ayahuasca ceremonies privately with two trauma-informed ministers, and we spent hours practicing safe touch, doing sensory integration work. A lot of purging (throwing up) of disgust and other intense feelings that were very deep and very hidden from me. My complex included a lot of covert incest (not sure what the Jungian term for that would be), and several times literally re-enacting, four-on-the-floor, of being sodomized in tandem by my parents. The latter was not a literal memory, but was a metaphor for the kind of psychic rape that my parents together (who were of a persecuted minority during their formative years) enacted on me. "Recovered memories" can be literal but can also be not literal but psychologically accurate. Now I’m studying Jung and finding that my plant ceremony (which I still do regularly) experiences become much more useful as I learn more and integrate them using aJungian perspective. I love thinking of Jung as an alchemist and also shamanic. One of the elements in the dream that stood out for me was the mosaic. Mosaics are made up of little pieces of broken glass that are organized into beautiful, powerful art, here archetypes including Lilith or Ishtar. A nice representation of the collective work of integrating collective, deeply unconscious material into archetypes, a lovely depiction of the painful, digestive, immensely powerful process of archetype formation - one can imagine that those little pieces of bright, broken glass formed into Ishtar or Lilith and several other archetypal images deep in the cave undergirding the contemporary church represent how many untold ancient religions, communities, heart break and death that through long, almost geologic cultural pressure were formed into bits of bright, reflective broken glass. Glass itself is actually in the frozen state of matter - the melting point of glass is well above room temperature but it is in the solid, "frozen" state no less than ice. So all those beliefs, movements, lives, deaths, heartbreaks and hopes of millions and millions of people over thousands of years are "crystallized" into brilliant shards of glass, seeming cacophony and waste, yet formed through the archetypal patterning mechanism into Lilith and Ishtar and the other archetypal images in the collective unconscious, the cave.
My mom likes to make up false narratives, my sister cheats a lot and makes up excuses blatantly meanwhile my dad frequently abuses my trust and is very egoic and power hungry without doing anything worthy of merit.
The psychiatrist who wrote a book about Scott Peterson says, "always look to the mother..." I think his name is Ablow. I had a beautiful mother who taught me self confidence and encouraged me until her last breath. She walked through hell and never complained...selfless. 🙏🏽❤
Around 9:00 - "Life is traumatic, deal with it"...? Umm, ok. Clearly, people like therapists, which as the author says, have themselves gone through a lot of mother trauma, might, like all survivors of abuse be expected to have a diminished sense of empathy towards other abuse victims. That is how you perpetrate the cycle of abuse, "it's just traumatic", "deal with it", no parent is good or bad...? Please try to have some empathy for your patients.
The difficulty is that, if you were abused as a child, you WERE a victim. 100%. Don't shift blame, anything else would be shame-based delusion and the insanity defense fallacy. However, we do need to accept that we are no longer victims and have to let go of the resentment that is perniciously gnawing away at us. Our resentment is bigger than we are and requires external intervention, both through therapy and a Higher Power of your choice. Childhood trauma healing is a mammoth undertaking that is our necessary responsibility to undergo. Break the cycle.
Oh my god. You guys are wrong. I know about this stuff, I would have been fine. My needs would have been met. I didn't need much, I only wanted to see if I could do more to help out. When I looked into the anxiety, I realized that people's inability to be brutally honest when needed is what holds them back from changing. My mom is fine. My visions of her became exaggerated along with other girls when I couldn't find a deeper problem to solve. My situation became worse when I saw others' attachments to me. There is nothing wrong so long as there is detachment. Detachment would be better if we learned how to resolve the messy ways in which we detach. I don't seek out people with my emotions. Other people sought me out. I act on my emotions. I observe and accept others. I did nothing wrong, girls are just scared.
This perspective was my way too. It took many years to realize that I was easily targeted by those who could manipulate me for their nefarious needs. Please look up Lisa Romano on TH-cam. She will help you see your kindness from another perspective. In the meantime set Boundaries for yourself. Best wishes!
Ok🫢 this is a very uncomfortable listen😳 'Killing me softly' is the meme😩 my mum died in April, it was such a psychic weight lifted off me, everyone said she was such a wonderful mother, such a wonderful person. I thought she was performative, narcissistic and pretty shallow🤦 some weird stuff kept happening after she died, I ended up going to a clairvoyant to tell my mother to fuck off because she's dead! Its OVER! The clairvoyant said my deceased Dad was pleased I did that because he was trying to tell her 'but she wouldnt listen to him' (story of their marriage🤦) but the weird stuff ended. I had a massive panic attack a couple months later when I heard an intonation that sounded like an inaudible comment from her and I thought OMG she's still alive😮😧 that was a scary realisation - lol PTSD about a person I neither admired or respected🤦 my take is PTSD is the outcome of a unprocessed moral dilemma - working quite hard on that just now, feels a bit like looking for medieval 16C ottoman coins and finding Gobekli Tepe 10 000BC 😮
Wish I'd listened to this when I was 30 rather than 50. Extremely helpful.
I am moved listening to this. At 58 years old, 22 years sober, lots of therapy, a solid loving marriage and grown children, a life of conscious service, i wonder whether the healing EVER gets down deep enough to prevent in lower moments the slide down the steep glass sides of the mountain. The ego just makes such monumental efforts to get in the way! It's exhausting, and listening in to this conversation helps me to realise that i lack a life goal at this time. Actually I am waiting, because i've been advised to wait rather than to initiate. But without a meaningful goal, there's a creeping feeling that it's all over, pointless to continue, little to look forward to, no surprises or revelations to access. Not true, i know. But whoever said 'If you're not busy being born, you're busy dying' had a point. Thanks to this team for reminding me that soul healing is a meaningful goal in itself.
As Jung himself said: ‘Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside, awakens.’ I often feel similar to what you’re expressing, it’s like ‘what am I actually doing?’ And, that’s useful, but only to an extent. We need to be doing things externally for sure. However, seeking to understand ourselves is I believe the biggest purpose of all. Without doing this, we cannot learn, grow and improve. If we can’t do these things, we cannot help and impact others in the way we would like to. We need to look inwards, then pass on that wisdom to our children. So, fellow stranger on the internet, you’re doing well. Don’t be hard on yourself for not having some sort of tangible higher purpose or ‘life goal.’ You’re raising and nurturing a family. If there’s anything more important in life than this, I’m yet to see it. You’re doing your best, and when you’re not, forgive yourself and keep going.
@@eddy7ronaldo Cheers, I needed to hear that exactly now.
I KNOW, 51 and I've been in therapy twice and I have all the awareness but I am still trying to undo the WOUNDs. I'm happy and confident until somebody projects their wound on to me. I have a cousin who has not worked on her wounds at all and she gives me the silent treatment when she sees me (while love bombing everybody else) and suddenly the content, easy going, warm person who can connect easily with other people just withers. This woman whose wounds are similar to my own but never dealt with and projected on to me in the form of a silent treatment, I seem to wither in her presence and she takes over in a very socially dominant way.
Yes, yes,yes.I see myself and issues in all of your response. 57. Been healing actively for last 30+ years.
I think it's really important to discern between goal and meaning...for me Joseph Campbell said it best..' we are looking not for meaning,but to feel alive."
This is so true, my mother doesn't even allow me to have my own perspective and if I do, I get the silent treatment. I have gone through life feeling that If I assert myself, that's an aggression and I'll be shut down for it.
I’ve been standing up to my mother she’s 90 and sharp as nails… she’s actually listening a bit. Best of luck on your journey💜
this made me smile 90 and so sharp but still lets in some new information. @@NownZen
"The silence treatment" that so true as well as asserting myself will be an agression and shuting down my will and voice !
But now I'm in conflict of expression (conflict is a good thing) and do hold and will facing this mother.
the child's needs *injure* the mother. Wow. That really hits home.
The childhood trauma you experienced was not your fault.
Healing from it is your responsibility.
But ultimately impossible without the money to buy professional help
@@brandonleroux6059 agree...i'm in 12 steps adult children and I need more to help my comples PTSD from severe child abuse by sperm donar and abandonment by mom (alcoholic) and I don't have the $$ to get pro help, so I wait till I get older and pass on and get free of my damage
I hate that saying. I’d be more ok with if I could kick my mother’s teeth out. See extreme pain in her. Then I’d accept shit like that.
Feels unfair 😄
Sad life.
This was an amazing talk. The healing of the feminine is crucial to humanities evolution. The feminine flows, is intuitive, creative, trusting the cosmos, not living in fear, resentment, shame or anger. This is representative of a larger issue of men and women not being in touch with that aspect of themselves and women being mistreated by that distorted masculine. Then not healing from this before cultivating romantic partnerships and bearing children. It's like a vicious cycle as the self realization many times comes later in life after the damage has already been done to the next generation of men and women. It's up to us to break the cycle once there is conscious awareness and that requires reflection and cultivated stillness. It requires personal will to change and break from the illusion.
My mother had a narcissistic mother herself. Her needs were not met beyond the physical, so emotional and mental needs were neglected.
That was my experience with my mother. Physical needs were met but with little emotion beyond feeling sorry for me.
I'm now becoming aware of those unmet needs, namely emotional and mental, which I'm addressing now after all these years. It has brought up tremendous anger then sadness but with that I'm starting to meet my own needs and becoming more open to asking my needs to be met. Conversely I'm more there for others - my wife and family.
I've never found a career that was fulfilling nor felt I carved a place for myself in the world. The terrible mother would tear me down when I tried because I lacked the stability of a well developed ego thus ran from my dragons. I didn't have the support and confidence to pushed through. While my mother wasn't a witch, just exhausted and clueless, my father on the other hand was terrible - rageful, self centred, spiteful, abusive.
As I connected with my childhood trauma I somehow found the strength to see myself and undertake the task of developing myself and connecting with the unconscious, personal and collective.
My Jungian Analyst asked me once if I had a special friend, you know, someone to confide in? I said no, she said she would be my friend then. I don't know if this is good practice or not however she did make it clear to me that I was pretty much unparented, my mother is a right cunt particularly as far as I'm concerned. Nevertheless this 'Boy Named Sue' story has produced great artistic creations, as James Hollis once wrote to me 'amazing what can come out of these situations' and told me he'd put one of my paintings as his screen image, all well and good but nothing in this life for me really
I think you and I had the same Mom.
My Dad was generally wonderful, but had all the S/S of Bi Polar breaking through at times.
I'm 56 and had no clue it was Mom's issues (deprived childhood) that caused so many of my issues.
About 60 / 40, I'd say.
It's so hard sometimes coming to
Truth, I think.
Do you agree ?
Cheers to us...
Sam! You and and have the exact same story. Not just the narc mother but also father. Fun times
Sam, that's a long, arduous road. Congratulations. Some of our childhoods overlap My Dad was passive, with empathy. Mom's mother had 7 kids and was ill and unavailable throughout Mom's childhood. It's a generational thing.
By now you must have been through lots of depression, as have I. Hopefully, they are down, now, to an off day. You sound good. 🤗
Be Proud of your significant progress. You are STRONG.
Wow, almost exact same story for me! Maternal grandmother was a narcissist, mother emotionally wounded. Always loved us but she couldn’t deal with the emotional realm. Father was abusive and matched the narcissism of my mothers mother (Jung said an unfortunate potential consequence of “resistance to mother” complex which described my mother well).
Have done great healing with this and has impacted relationship with my mother very positively! Amazing to see someone go from psychological stagnation to evolution later in life. 💕
I'll be listening to this again & again. So glad I found this place of sanity, solace & peace. ❤❤❤
"Being in a garbage disposal " was perfect descriptions MY life with my narcissist drunken mother was worse then multiple year incarcerate in Texas & New Jersey for a few years
Loved it! As a therapist who has a patient with an extremely negative mother complex, this has been so helpful. Thank you!
esta canal es la cosa más profunda que he podido escuchar en cuanto a podcast se refiere
I have listened to this podcast three times. I take notes. I write in my dream journal. I write in my PINK BOOK journal. Thank you and all your clients who have made a trail I can follow.
I just discovered your podcast and it’s just great. I’m currently exploring my mother complex since it seems I’ve buried it completely, but as Jung said, it’s very much alive and a driving force. Thank you.
Thank you so much. The three of you are just amazing, what a powerful concept, the three of you discussing psychological subjects with so much knowledge, wisdom, insight and warmth. It is always tremendously enriching and also fun to listen to your talks.
I have both...
Emotional and psychological neglect with my mother and complete disconnect with my daughter, from the day she was born it was that way. An astrologer once told me that are charts were squared eachother, so hence the friction. Yet I have a devotional relationship with the Divine Mother. So happy I found this even 4 years after being put out. I will say I have a super hard challenging journey forgiving my mother, so many wounds.
Listening to this was so affirming and healing.
I was a colicky baby and cried a lot so much so that I had to have a hernia operation when I was 6 months old. My mother had me when she was 21 years old, she once said to me, that she couldn't handle my crying anymore and she said to my grandmother I understand why mothers throw their babies against the wall. Needless to say my grandmother picked me up and took me home to her house
God Bless 🙏 your grandmother 👵 🥹❤
this cracked my soul open. glad I found it.
The disappearing mother caused by your father dying when you're 12. Never really discussed how you can lose 2 parents at the same time.
I practiced ob-gyn for 30 years. Looking back I think it was an attempt to heal and make peace with the feminine after being raised by an unpredictable mother and disabled sister- a disability my mother blamed on me. At the very least I am now open to questions and a range of answers.
I appreciate u for sharing your story.
I send loving healing energy to your journey
So unfair to have your sibling’s disability blamed on you. Who does that???!!!!
Yes… That’s a terrible thing to hang on a child!!!! 😢
I’m, after two years working on my shadows and reintegrating parts of my self, in a stage where the mother complex (travestied) since it was the mother I created to take care of me while i was in the survival mode in the absence of love in my younger life, started showing up in my dreams trying to impose me to old habits but my reaction was fighting back. That’s why I started doing the work for the mother complex, understanding that i creat this spectrum to take command in the pass but that’s not useful anymore in the adult life and with me building self love. I had occasions where i was possessed for this angriness in moments that I allowed myself being insecure in this process of understanding and avoidance to this spectrum that keeps trying to make me avoid any situation that makes me vulnerable and try to sabotage any kind of relationship. It’s a lot of work but it’s amazing that i can even in my dreams to fight back this impulses and that it gets weaker with my progress.
I must listen to this again. And again. So much speaks to me! At age 75, having done so much inner and outer work already, I am getting a glimpse of how I might be acting out certain of my mom's qualities that either attract or repel others. I can be terrifying or charming in my affect!
Feeling those feelings means collapse
I dare to say as a response to us “protecting the therapists by not revealing much”. I’ve been in therapy when I didn’t want to risk being rejected and I didn’t say much and I noticed the only therapy that worked for me was when I was being constantly affirmed. It feels awkward at the beginning but then one day it feels normal. Afterwards I needed to be treated like an adult, but I never thought not to hurt the therapist, I thought they were strong, I just didn’t want to hurt myself by saying too much.
I understand. I withheld much when in therapy for various reasons. The more open and honest you can be, the better chance you will have to make progress for emotional growth.
Maybe work on the mutual trust to allow yourself to access deeper levels within yourself. ❤
Thank you for this discussion. I see my own mother in an entirely new light.
This is excellent and highly illuminating You seem to omit is the effect upon men of the mother complex that is often expressed through misogyny and violence against women. In an increasingly people centred society that places emotion as central to experience the inability that men have to metabolise emotion has often tragic results for both men and women.
Perhaps this is true, yet we can't fix the world. We can only learn to understand ourselves. Try, you will feel better living in this chaoticworld. ❤
Could it be that men in our society fear the innate wisdom of women? Because they are threatened by women's intuitive nature. They do their best to put us down. Not all men hate their mothers...😮
They feel more powerful by sticking together.
There are many different ways to look at all problems. Let's face it...men have lost much of their identities in the last 25 years! Therefore, everyone is a bit confused.
I feel understood, thank you💖
Very powerful discussion and personally poignant in various ways. Thank you.
Yeah, I needed this....
Thank you for this really interesting podcast. I'm about to start an MA on Jungian and Post - Jungian studies so this channel is a great find.
When I'm not sure what the "work of the day" looks like, I draw upon my intuition to select a meaningful Episode. If there were a transcript of this Episode, I would highlight so much there would be little not designated! I am in the middle of the task of making something meaningful of my mother's "inheritance" before I die!
Beautiful piece. Thanks for the work that you do!
Thank you for this video. I want to know more.
My sister doesn't remember any of her childhood she blocked it all out, but I remember everything and had a beautiful inner world and dreams!
Maybe these different outcomes have something to do with the family roles?🤔 golden child, Scapegoat etc
This is a really amazing talk. I'm still new to all this Jungian thought and processes, your guys are fluent and understandable. 👏🏻✨
Been strong in my choosing to never sign up or into anything ever. I made a TH-cam thing and actually linked an email TODAY. NOW, JUST TO COMMENT HERE. Ok, im sorry its so dramatic but im scared for my babies! Im so broken and affected from my mother and its affecting and my parenting abilities. I am like watching this dumpster fire paralyzed from afar and all i can seem to do is freaking cry, avoid, and numb. Im isolated, and not mobile and I know im completely blowing it. I do not want my children to be negatively affected from me! I am trying to be as willing and vulnerable and open to whatever it takes to stop this fire and rebuild!
I'm open to all suggestions or help please and thank you. I'm grateful for all the amazing compassionate research and understanding that you all are sharing.
It does take a very long time, healing a Negative Mother Complex. I was able to identify my version. It's amazing that you not only described it, but gave me some unheard, and not known things to ponder.
Certainly the three of you can understand how convoluted and confusing the Negative Mother Complex is.
Since originally writing here, I've decided that mom never bonded with me. I am the 4th and last child. She was told that I would be a boy (who would have been her second son, not her 3rd daughter.) She always took care of physical needs, and maintained a lovely home. All emotional defining growth and tender loving care were absent. I'm wondering of she projected her unfulfilled sexuality onto me. I was "boy crazy" from age 4.
omg! I think I've resolved the negative mother complex.
But, now, what about the Father Complex!
It simply goes on and on. I agree. We never can end self analysis because each day, I uncover some other piece of my puzzle that I've been attempting to understand since my mid 20s! We can only become wiser than our complexes. This is as good as it gets. ❤❤❤
@kirstinstrand6292 how did you resolve it please do tell
@ayesha8809 thank you for asking. I read your comment early in the morning today. I was not ready for the day, so I drifted off again to sleep. Your comment must have triggered a dream. Here it is: I was in a room where a tiny baby was quietly sobbing. This upset me, so I gently picked the baby up and began to soothe her/him with rocking and talking. Surprisingly, the baby 👶 stopped crying and reached out, touching my face. There was also a young woman in the room. I asked her if she knew why the baby was distressed.
She said that it was because her mother never comforted her baby. (17.5 was when I finally escaped living at home - I was off to college.) I asked the young woman her age. She looked 19 but was only 17.5 years old. (The baby was not hers.)
I woke up and attempted to listen to this dream. (I'll relay the short version.)
I've had my baby picture on a bookshelf many years and only occasionally glanced at her. A month or so ago, I began talking 👄 to her, telling her that I love her and that I understand how she must feel.
Could the dream be telling me that my analysis of being psychologically rejected by my mother is correct, and now baby self has heard me speaking to her? Has this very old and deep wound been healed? I feel that my morning dream is saying to me that we are now one, both healed.
Thank you 😊 so much for asking about the resolution.
Sometimes, dreams are gifts from the universe.
This was very helpful, thank you!
I'm so glad!
I AM . . . therefore I am bigger than my problems!
Thanks so much for this video! It was really eye-opening. Just found your channel and I'm looking forward to listening to the other podcast episodes
Glad to have you aboard!
im 51 undergoing psychotherapy twice a week..its been a very painful endevour..and so liberating..
More fairy tales please!
I agree!
My mother was great, why cant i remember her at all lol. But seriously , you should mention Pink Floyds song Mother, , the overprotective fearful mother, and also the book The drama of the gifted child, those are what I can relate to the most. After a lot of therapy our relationship is pretty good now
Drama of the Gifted Child is so helpful. It is good to hear you have restored yourself ~ Joseph
Alice Millers 1st edition was great. I have no idea why she rewrote it. Hint- her son found her rather unpleasant and frustrating. Idk she wasn't my mother. If I recall correctly it could be she was taking about anxious preoccupied attachment and their ability to read people; especially put others first before themselves. It does have a borderline quality.
If you can't remember than repression and high amounts of denial are present
The brain wants to keep bad experiences hidden.
This one landed with me in a personal way.
Same man..
so hard to imagine another human could or would meet my needs…
Brilliant! Thank you; thank you , thank you!
Excellent content
Thank you❤
The Haghia Sophia is not a temple to the goddess Sophia, but to Holy Wisdom, one of the attributes of God. Wisdom is anthropomorphized in Scripture, but that has always been understood as poetic license. Intellectual rigor should never be replaced by wishful thinking.
This is indeed a mesmerizing illustration of Maternal Archetype. Jungian analysis of mother complex & role of animus is intense than object relation theorists. Thanks❤😊
This really resonates with me.
Nope: I had a horribly intentionally abusive mother that knew exactly what she was doing. No children’s services to get a child away from that. The damage is horrendous. The idea that it is not intentional sometimes is ludicrous.
What if you never find that mother relationship
I'm consuming these ravenously! I love Jungs work and I'm really into Psychological Types and everything that stemmed from that, as well as archetypes.....its the only kind Psychology I relate to and that actually makes sense to me xx
I'm not sure if these are the ones on Spotify but I'm pretty sure they are, my only gripe is the audio on Spotify It sounds like it's reduced when it was uploaded
This is Deep...The whole part of denying oneself is something I'm seeing with a friend of mine at work. And he revealed to me that his mother was very physically abusive....
I haven’t listened to the podcast yet but I’ve observed a similar phenomenon within myself. I just call it self-sabotage.
@@sminter7521 And it stems from early childhood abuse it seems....
@@Ken-iu2zp Yeah! Sure does😅
The three of you are good people
I would remind my mother that we had a father-
When mother would say,
What did i do to deserve these children who grew up to be.......
Unfortunately, as a adult son of a classical devouring mother with strong narcissistic traits, I can tick all the boxes.
The lived experience felt-sense of being ground up in a garbage disposal, or (as I felt a few years ago during an intense period) being chopped up and one's body parts pressed through a colander, may be interpreted as an initiation into shamanic realms.
It's not only the child's temperament; toxic (e.g. cluster B) mothers have their golden child, their scapegoat...
I love these talks and am happy to contribute on Patreon, but I've noticed that ads are getting so frequent that they are nearly untenable. I'm seeing them appear now every FOUR MINUTES, which seems excessive to me and is such an interruption to the flow of the conversation.
He’s describing projective identfication.
my dad went to a psychiatric hospital with paranoia and depression but my mum and dad are a real unit and it is my mother who won't allow me my own perspective. Somehow, I have emerged in the family with the label ''paranoid'' and none of them sees anything strange there, even though I put it to them that it was something to think about surely. It just made them angry of course. My mum and Dad kept their respectable family together by projecting all of their low self esteem on to me and when I called time on it, they called me sensitive, emotional, angry and now they and my enmeshed golden child brother are all 3 giving me the silent treatment! All because I said stop calling me paranoid. And I wouldn't back down and say sorry.
In many ways bringing a child into the world is a very selfish thing to do...im not sure ive ever heard any parent admit or address that..most of the time they only recognize their sacrifice and that underlies the abuse they inflict on their children
So which is it, the animus saves us or the healing that comes in relationship does? Maybe it's both. My understanding of the animus is that is the woman's relating function. Perhaps if you slay the complexes and allow the positive forces of the animus to animate you as a woman, you will then be able to properly relate to others.
Trigger warning - Sexual Assault
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Right on. It took 44 Ayahuasca ceremonies for me to get at some of my mother complex, and that was after several decades of trying other methods to work on it. My mother complex involved a sort of extreme neglect and touch deprivation. I’d read that it was so, but was surprised to find that ultimately the neglect was worse than the abuse. I did my ayahuasca ceremonies privately with two trauma-informed ministers, and we spent hours practicing safe touch, doing sensory integration work. A lot of purging (throwing up) of disgust and other intense feelings that were very deep and very hidden from me. My complex included a lot of covert incest (not sure what the Jungian term for that would be), and several times literally re-enacting, four-on-the-floor, of being sodomized in tandem by my parents. The latter was not a literal memory, but was a metaphor for the kind of psychic rape that my parents together (who were of a persecuted minority during their formative years) enacted on me. "Recovered memories" can be literal but can also be not literal but psychologically accurate. Now I’m studying Jung and finding that my plant ceremony (which I still do regularly) experiences become much more useful as I learn more and integrate them using aJungian perspective. I love thinking of Jung as an alchemist and also shamanic.
One of the elements in the dream that stood out for me was the mosaic. Mosaics are made up of little pieces of broken glass that are organized into beautiful, powerful art, here archetypes including Lilith or Ishtar. A nice representation of the collective work of integrating collective, deeply unconscious material into archetypes, a lovely depiction of the painful, digestive, immensely powerful process of archetype formation - one can imagine that those little pieces of bright, broken glass formed into Ishtar or Lilith and several other archetypal images deep in the cave undergirding the contemporary church represent how many untold ancient religions, communities, heart break and death that through long, almost geologic cultural pressure were formed into bits of bright, reflective broken glass. Glass itself is actually in the frozen state of matter - the melting point of glass is well above room temperature but it is in the solid, "frozen" state no less than ice. So all those beliefs, movements, lives, deaths, heartbreaks and hopes of millions and millions of people over thousands of years are "crystallized" into brilliant shards of glass, seeming cacophony and waste, yet formed through the archetypal patterning mechanism into Lilith and Ishtar and the other archetypal images in the collective unconscious, the cave.
My mom likes to make up false narratives, my sister cheats a lot and makes up excuses blatantly meanwhile my dad frequently abuses my trust and is very egoic and power hungry without doing anything worthy of merit.
JUST SO HARD to live with this😩 its ok to forgive yourself for moving on😳 just saying👍👍
This is incredible work thank you
9:24 note to self : The disappearing Mother
Reference guide 2022
Another good source is Pete Walker...amazing, truly.
It flows? Really?
The psychiatrist who wrote a book about Scott Peterson says, "always look to the mother..." I think his name is Ablow.
I had a beautiful mother who taught me self confidence and encouraged me until her last breath. She walked through hell and never complained...selfless. 🙏🏽❤
God Bless 🙏 your mother 👵
Dream 51:56
feel like you have accidentally harpooned a whale and you're in a dinghy !^^
Around 9:00 - "Life is traumatic, deal with it"...? Umm, ok. Clearly, people like therapists, which as the author says, have themselves gone through a lot of mother trauma, might, like all survivors of abuse be expected to have a diminished sense of empathy towards other abuse victims. That is how you perpetrate the cycle of abuse, "it's just traumatic", "deal with it", no parent is good or bad...? Please try to have some empathy for your patients.
Being an eternal victim is not helpful or healing
@@saraparham3156 this approach does not work for everyone
The difficulty is that, if you were abused as a child, you WERE a victim. 100%. Don't shift blame, anything else would be shame-based delusion and the insanity defense fallacy. However, we do need to accept that we are no longer victims and have to let go of the resentment that is perniciously gnawing away at us. Our resentment is bigger than we are and requires external intervention, both through therapy and a Higher Power of your choice. Childhood trauma healing is a mammoth undertaking that is our necessary responsibility to undergo. Break the cycle.
5:30
Oh my god. You guys are wrong. I know about this stuff, I would have been fine. My needs would have been met. I didn't need much, I only wanted to see if I could do more to help out. When I looked into the anxiety, I realized that people's inability to be brutally honest when needed is what holds them back from changing. My mom is fine. My visions of her became exaggerated along with other girls when I couldn't find a deeper problem to solve. My situation became worse when I saw others' attachments to me. There is nothing wrong so long as there is detachment. Detachment would be better if we learned how to resolve the messy ways in which we detach. I don't seek out people with my emotions. Other people sought me out. I act on my emotions. I observe and accept others. I did nothing wrong, girls are just scared.
This perspective was my way too. It took many years to realize that I was easily targeted by those who could manipulate me for their nefarious needs. Please look up Lisa Romano on TH-cam. She will help you see your kindness from another perspective. In the meantime set Boundaries for yourself. Best wishes!
Gay guy named Clay Weiner sounds made up lol
Look it up
th-cam.com/video/HAxfh8ukosQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=N42dFP4juh2WRa4Q
30:01
😷😃
11:00
24:20
Lol my moms name is Lisa I almost changed it
14:00
Your mother can do no wrong, huh? lol Why can't women hold themselves accountable for anything?
Ok🫢 this is a very uncomfortable listen😳 'Killing me softly' is the meme😩 my mum died in April, it was such a psychic weight lifted off me, everyone said she was such a wonderful mother, such a wonderful person. I thought she was performative, narcissistic and pretty shallow🤦 some weird stuff kept happening after she died, I ended up going to a clairvoyant to tell my mother to fuck off because she's dead! Its OVER! The clairvoyant said my deceased Dad was pleased I did that because he was trying to tell her 'but she wouldnt listen to him' (story of their marriage🤦) but the weird stuff ended. I had a massive panic attack a couple months later when I heard an intonation that sounded like an inaudible comment from her and I thought OMG she's still alive😮😧 that was a scary realisation - lol PTSD about a person I neither admired or respected🤦 my take is PTSD is the outcome of a unprocessed moral dilemma - working quite hard on that just now, feels a bit like looking for medieval 16C ottoman coins and finding Gobekli Tepe 10 000BC 😮
51.56 The dreamer is called to back to return to balance and wholeness. I resonate with her dreams very well.