@@dylanlac765n6 But isn't the shell case the majority of the weight? He could be a navy vet, there's videos of gunners on destroyers handling the modern 70lbs 5" shells like they're nothing
I find it staggering that those men could maintain such a high rate of precision fire, with all the complexity`s of the system used at that time. Total Respect to them.
Fantastic. My girlfriend and I visited about 2 years ago. We were fortunate in that the after 16" turret was open to visitors. Fantastic ship to tour. !
This brings back a lot of memories, we had the same 5"38 like most American warships. I think we had 6 twin 5"38 mounts, 1 super firing T2 and T3, then 2 port and starboard, fore and aft. USS Newport News (CA-148) my time aboard 1968-69-70 Call sign THUNDER flag hoist; November - India - Quebec - Quebec Our guns were fully automatic with brass powder charge, loading and firing in any position. We could theoretically fire all 1400 rounds of 8" in 15 min. but I don't think the crew could keep up with the guns. Then onboard the USS Springfield (CLG-7) 71-72 Flag Hoist/Radio Call Sign: November - Whiskey - Delta - Mike. . "Fair Winds and Following Seas" Brothers
@@faranger First of all, I thank you and your family for your fathers service. Another coincidence here is that I live 50 miles south of Indy and my ride to the VA every few months takes me near Ft. Benjamin Harrison, in Indianapolis. From me to your father, "Fair Winds and Following Seas" Brother.
@@faranger LOFL, He seems like a real character, my middle son spent 12 years in the Army, I could have not been more proud. I have been to Pearl Harbor, and got to see a few things, my dad was there during WW2. My first GQ station was 5 levels below the main deck between an oil bunker and powder magazine, at least I think that's right (more than 50 yrs ago) so I understand your feelings about being trapped below, sort of the same way I thought about crawling around in the mud and your own excrement. Thank you for your service to, brother.
My boss was on her same time ,he remembers loading the shells up every night. He told me how many shells the USS Newport News could put on a target in 1 minute.....
I've got a base turned into an ashtray, and a full one I use as a funky door stop. My dad collected them, and gave them to my grandfather when he would visit the ship down at Long Beach. Grandfather would craft all kinds of crap out of them.
@@chrispileski6640 I had a couple of those too. House was burglarized years back, and the punks stole those. I always wonder, with all of the other valuable crap I have, why take those? Lol
@@themonolithian My dad's destroyer had a bad rap in the fleet for always crashing into shit while in port there and elsewhere - The pier, buoys, barges, launches, sampans and other destroyers, regardless of who was at the con - hence the nickname 'Rammin Sammy' (USS Samuel N. Moore)
Wow, the design, the building and field engineering of this is amazing. The 5”/38 single and twin mounts were on everyplace that could fit them which meant many custom configurations.
I went through FT "A" school in 1970. Some of my classmates went on to "C" school for the Mk 37 system which was still in use on many WWII vintage ships, especially older DDs. At that time WWII had only ended 25 years before. We always heard the story that the man who invented the MK 1 Able computer went insane after completing the design. I do have a powder case from a 5" 38, used of course.
@@BattleshipNewJersey I can vouch for that, it was at the captains discretion, whether we tossed the brass or not, during Vietnam aboard the USS Newport News (CA-148), one of the times we went to Hong Kong, we traded brass for a company to paint out the ship. That way the deck force got more liberty as well, we supplied the paint, brushes, rollers etc., Funny thing, they painted every thing with their hands and kept the brushes and rollers. We also had to stop them from stealing the ships bell.
I was a FTM on the USS Somers (DDG-34, ex-DD-947) from '71 to '73. We had a 5"-54 mount forward. We made one WestPac cruise in '72 off the coast of Vietnam where we did many call-for-fire missions and harassment and interdiction missions with our gun. By '72 most of the power shells were not brass, they were steel. Occasionally, a brass one was received and the spent shell was quickly grabbed by one of the officers. #RHIP. When we were on the gun line, we frequently shot so many rounds that the paint on the gun barrel blistered. We had all-hands working parties every other night for hours hand passing 500+ 5" rounds and then 5" power canisters from the at-sea replenishment deck down to the magazine deck. The jock officers would be the ones hand passing the 5" shells or power canisters from the hatch above to the hatch at their feet. There were no hoists for rearmament on a tin can; all 5" ammo was hand-passed.
every other morning, my 6 hrs out of the handling room was spent reloading the mag's during resupply. We would get done just in time to eat and get back in the mount. Couln't sleep in the bunks because of the fiberglass falling out of the overhead.
Thanks for putting these videos up, I only saw the New jersey for a distance when I was in the USA, but got to tour around the open space on Missouri when I was there, but there were some parts of the ship that weren't open access, so these video let me see some of that, Thank you.
The Ford Mk 1 (later MK2) was a analog computer linked to the air search radar for anti air and anti ship fire. The axis powers never developed a similar system which gave the USN a first round hits when the target at night or in dense fog or smoke and was only visible on the radar screen. In the AA mode all the 5’’ were linked together to attack incoming targets. It was so effective that it’s one of the reasons the IJN turned to the Kamikaze operations. This system basically this was a genius invention which shortly the war and saved lives
I wanna thank you for what you do to educate people on those ship and by that I think you are saving for many years to come and if navy ever needed them again they will still be around to do so. Thank you for preserving the best ships ever made.🙏😇🤘😎🤘
It's been a long time since I saw these guns in action...my ship, the Mason (DD-852) had twin 5"38 mounts fore and aft and I recall when push came to shove once the rate of fire was quite amazing. I recall that the 5" shells came with brass hats or covers and we stored that brass and traded them in Hong Kong for work that Bum-Boat Mary's people did on the ship. I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of those 5" guns.
You would be exhausted as a loader on 60 or m1 tanks loading 22 rounds a minute . You would have to start tossing empty casings on the 60’s out the loaders hatch
@@genegleason4987 Saw the 4 sec reload in the 1/1 CAV and 11th ACR. Agreed, not sustainable for any length of time, but if you miss the first the second will be on target before the other guy can react.
Thinking about how these firing platforms were designed and built nearly 90 years ago, and were able to achieve a firing rate of one round every 4 seconds by using the brute strength of men and mechanical methods of that time is stunning.
A turret is part of the Ship. A 5/38 is a Gun Mount and can be lifted off the ship by a crane. It could still elevate that night. We just threw the "Brass" over the side. Not really Brass any more its an Alloy.
On the show The Last Ship, they had a reason to fire the 5" gun several times in rapid succession. The Arleigh Burke's 5" is in the center of the forward deck and if someone was unfortunate enough to be standing in front of it, if the shock wouldn't be enough the rapid ejection of the shells would have knocked that person overboard. Big guns are nice, but more than one enemy learned to not dis the 5".
I think its funny when you mention something to someone about these old fire control computers, and people say something like "Computers didn't exist back then".
Computers has existed a long time. Think a human with the ability to count,add,multiply,subtract and divide ? That is the real definition of an computer when New Jersey and the atomic bomb were designed and built. So were the B-52 and Glamorous Glennis, Chuck Yeager's Bell X aircraft, they were designed and dimensioned by hand using brain, fingers, pen, logarithm tabels (and in some cases table calculators and card machines.) An UNIVersal Automatic Computer (or UNIVAC) is something else.
@@TheStefanskoglund1 Don't know about the real definition of a computer but what you describe can simply be called calculators. The difference between calculators and a computer is that calculators can give you the value of A and B and the sum of both; a computer can tell if A or B is the greater value. In other words a calculator handles 1 computation/calculation at a time but a computer can handle multiple lines of calculations and combine their results. People think "Personal Computers" and "Computers" are the same thing. And PC's didn't exist back then. I always found it funny that our very important fire-control-computer was comparable to a Commodore 64 with 64kB of extra memory. This was in the late nineties when people had pc's that were far more powerful computation-wise.
@@DreadX10 The personnel doing calculations in an engineering and/or research shop were called computers. With regards to fire control computers: Things doing ballistic calculations DON'T need that much memory. Well known and defined speed and correct results is far more important. Neither were it necessary that they were simple to program in - well trained people did the programming (compare the Bendig G-15 with a VIC 20 for example. The G-15 were the first computer which was easy enough to use and cheap enough so that one example could be reserved for the usage of ONE engineer. Though it wasn't easy to program so it soon got obsolete.)
My dad served on a 1600ton destroyer during WW2, his first GQ station was in the 51 mount handling room. While in action against a U-boat in the med (it was probably U-63 based on the stories he told vs the ship's history I can find) word was passed to clear all forward spaces as the skipper felt they might end up ramming the German. My dad said the guy in the powder magazine came through the scuttle and was on the ladder before my dad could turn around and take the couple of steps to the ladder!
@@stephenbritton9297 The wisdom of the USN stationing an enlisted navigation and seamanship specialist in the deepest part of the ship slinging shells... Shall not be questioned. There's a good reason for everything. Someday that reason might be declassified.
@@teller1290 1600 ton standard displacement (Benson/Livermore/Gleaves classes) 2400 ton full loaded (Buckley class DE was 1700ton full loaded, so you’re not off base) Tonnage is a confusing subject...
Operation "Oceanview" was the name used by the Marines that night ! FYI. The rammer's part was called a "Spade" when the breach block pushed it up it caught the big long brass "Cam"and rode it up and back to the ready position, Easy to see in the video. As it returned it rose up so when gun was fired. The ejector Pauls of the breach block then pushed the empty brass back out. It easly slide under the Spade as it was now up. Expended brass slide out the back of the gun into a chute then out opening demonstrated in video. What else do you want to know about the 5/38's in Viet Nam We were the 5th Div. "Salts of the Earth"
In 1969 our naval gunfire team called in 0ver 5,000 rounds of 5 and 16 inche off the new Jersey and 3 artillery batteries of 105 howitzers and 8 inch.the firefight lasted all knight when the NVA tried to over run us at Charlie 4 just below the dmz..awesome!!! get some!!😊😊😊
I saw one big mistake on loading the 5" projectiles. When loading in projectiles on to the loading tray you would not have your fingers flat unless you want your fingers smashed flat or worse loosing a finger or two. This is an excellent way to getting your fingers smashed between the loading tray and the 5" projectile. The correct way to guide the projectile is to make a cat's paw and guide the projectile into the position to be loaded with the hand closest to the breach. Then with the opposite hand use that hand to ram home the projectile and powder case. Former GMG3 on USS Rogers DD 876 a Gearing Class Destroyer.
I live in Bremerton, Wa. Where these ships were maintained- where I work actually. Around town there are old 40mm Pom Pom guns. Wonder if those are from the Iowa class??
Okay as far as it goes. Could have provided more info concerning the ramming and case ejection. The chutes that would have been rigged to the rear of the guns directing spent cases out of the mount. Also no mention made of the upper case ejection ports, when the barrels were at too high an elevation for the case to be ejected from the lower port. Hot shellman would clear the case from the pit and throw it out the upper ejection port.
And what about the buffet? According to my dad, on his can they would spend hours upon hours in the mount while at GQ or chasing trains up and down the North Korean coast. Cooked up their own grub in there.
It is amazing to me how many sailors are required to be on station for any critical shipboard task. The powder and shells are passed from man to man numerous times in this process, rather than simply rolling onto a conveyor belt one time.
I love the history and deep dive into the ship. However I would mention there is great value in putting someone used to delivering info and with some on camera experience in front of the camera. Yes I know it costs money ectect, but the fact remains.
I always took for granted that the 5 inch guns were similar to the 16 inch guns. I never knew there was a metal casing for the powder. I assumed they used (smaller) powder bags. The 5 inch guns almost seem more labor intensive than the 16 inch guns.
Playing World of Warships with the USS Kidd, I was thinking, "these 5 inch guns reload super quick are they sure they could do it this fast?" Its set to 4 seconds per shot and it is absolutely devastating.
My favorite story is from a reddit user, u/Anathemamaranatha on r/militarystories, with the post named "Bridges". It's a very long story so i cut it down a bit. He was a Army Artillery officer attached to USMC at the time. The Marine Amphibs had a fire mission, plotted about 800m from 1 of their infantry patrols. They were adamant to use the New Jersey. So, he called his AVRN officer (Trung úy aka 1st Lieutenant) to authorize it. AM: (pointing at the spot on a map) "Hăi pháo (navy gun), shoot here" TU: "Yah. Shoot". AM: (i don't think he understand me) "Hăi pháo" TU: "Yah. Shoot". AM: (take a piece of pen and paper, wrote 406mm on it) "Hăi pháo" TU: (eye wide) "NO SHOOT!" So, in the end they use 5 inch guns to do the job.
Been to the New Jersey and it was a good tour I also have been on the Alabama and there was much more open to the public on that tour.. they are awesome ships! Can you tell me why so much more was available to see on the Alabama
Alabama has been a museum a lot longer so they've had more years to do the restoration. However, in the last 2 years we've opened ALOT! We have more open than they do now.
ONRUSH is correct for the new Jersey l was there in 1968-1969 as a naval gunfire shore fire control party usmc-mos 0849 3rd mar. div.vietnam 1968-1969.
USS Alabama BB 60 in WW2 - During a Japanese air attack on the fleet on 21 February, Alabama's No. 9 5-inch turret accidentally fired into the No. 5 mount, killing five and wounding eleven men. That day, Alabama took part in a sweep to the southeast of Saipan to search for Japanese vessels that might be in the area. There is a plaque on the gun mount in Mobile, Alabama as a memorial to the men that lost their lives due to friendly fire.
What happened to all those brass casings ejected onto the deck? If a ship engaged in uncontested shore bombardment there would be after action time to gather them up as valuable strategic material, I hope (WW II). Would they they be stowed in the empty magazines, or more easily stacked elsewhere?
Can you do a video regarding the removal of the four 5” turrets and how the spaces below were changed / utilized for running the cabling for the new missile systems. Also, were the removed turrets scrapped or are they still around somewhere?
@@BattleshipNewJersey Thanks 🙂👍🏻. That was very educational. Nothing was mentioned about the 5” turrets so I assume they were probably scrapped along with the hoist machinery.
question - at 3:22 you lift a powder canister up from the hoist, with the rim up. I assume the other end is open. Won't the powder etc fall out of the brass at that point? Or was that a mistake (putting it in the hoist upside down)?
@@BattleshipNewJersey LOL; the powder-cartridge had a cork plug to keep it's contents inside. www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_5-38_mk12.php , the penultimate image shows "Cutaway sketch of 5"/38 (12.7 cm) ammunition."
My uncle was a 5" shell striker on the Alabama. I think I know what that means. As a retired theatre/film professor I was aware that to "strike the set" meant to dismantle it. Pertaining to "striking" shells I would like to know precisely what my uncle was doing. Thanks in advance for an answer if you would be so kind.
I do not know that job title, but here is a link to a training manual for 5" gun crews. Perhaps one of these will fit what you know. maritime.org/doc/destroyer/fiveinch/index.htm
My father was in World War II. He served on the USS Chilton, APA 38, as a “hot shellman on the forward five inch” as he put it. The picture in my mind was that his job was to grab the hot shells as they came out of the gun and throw them overboard, but I could be wrong. Can you please clarify what he might have been doing?
"Shellmen, powdermen, and hoistmen make up the ammunition supply system. The shellman supplies properly fuzed projectiles to the shell loader via the fuze pots. On all twin mount guns and on some single mount guns the fuze pots are a part of the projectile hoist. In this case the shellman loads a projectile into the fuze pot and fills the projectile hoist simultaneously. At "secure" the shellman replaces the safety pins, nose caps, and grommets after checking that all nose fuzes are set on "Safe." The powderman supplies fresh powder cartridges to the powder loader directly or by means of a powder scuttle. At "Secure" the powderman replaces the primer protecting caps on the cartridges and stows them in the powder tanks. The hoistman operates a projectile hoist or powder hoist, or a combination projectile-and-powder hoist, to hoist ammunition up to the gun. At "Secure" the hoistman secures hoist in accordance with ship's doctrine and turns off power motor. Sometimes the shellman or the powderman acts as a hoistman, too. Without proper knowledge this would lead to confusion. If you are in the ammunition supply crew, know all three jobs well: shellman, powderman, and hoistman" Check out this manual on 5" guns from 1943 for more info: maritime.org/doc/destroyer/fiveinch/index.htm
For even more information, because we have it, we have an entire digitized 5in gun manual that has way more pictures but is less searchable at: drive.google.com/drive/folders/1CwKak3U-N8poRoakp_0IdoPvZUNTT7Wv?usp=sharing
@John Smith they also cost a lot more. Cheaper to use guns for naval support during beach landing and you can carry more shells than missiles. Id rather have a 5-8in gun with a couple hundred rounds each to cover my beach landings in a major war that a handful of missiles
@John Smith That is not entirely true. The use case Congress brings up is an opposed landing - where you don't have precise info on things that are happening, but you have a general area where you want to cause trouble. We haven't done an opposed landing since Chromite back during Korea, but they always brought it up, keeping two battleships active until the Soviet Union collapsed.
I know that the deal with the Navy prohibits you firing the boilers or shelling Philly what else aren't you allowed to do? Can you activate a small dredger hoist or simulate shell handling or is it just a lack of money that stops some of these?
almost? only the 38 caliber versions of the guns are retired, the last retired in 2008. their younger brothers, the 54 caliber, are active and thriving on the guided missile destroyers and cruisers
4-sounds/round?! This a fully manual process. Current 5-inch/54-caliber, Mk 45 navy gun advertises 3-seconds/round; and this is automatic for a 20-round loader. *Gunner’s mates* _seriously_ earning their dinner rations during those evolutions.
It's even cooler than that. The 3second rof is because the barrel vibrates from the projectile interacting with the grooves and even with modern metals it still takes that long to dampen down so precision is not affected. They were a second off from matching the limits of the guns themselves.
what id like to know is how comes in the film battleship they only needed 10 people to fully crew the entire ship? i thought the full compliment was around 2500?
I've always been curious how those weapons achieved dual purpose status during WWII, given the need for turret to keep pace with planes. I didn't know those guns stayed active after advent of jet age. Always wanted to talk to WWII gunner to learn how those worked.
These are some exceptionally common guns throughout the 20th century, for shore bombardment, primarily, but also for anti-ship defense. These guns worked against planes as part of a larger defense platform that included the 40mm and 20mm guns.
For air targeting they had a MK37 director. An officer used a periscope to pick the target. Three sailors were each tasked with train, elevation and range tracking with radar. Train and elevation cranked handwheels to aim the director and used a scope that they kept the peak centered on to keep the dish pointed at the airplane. The range used a delay line to adjust delay to match the delay line distance with the radar return to get the airplanes distance. All three were then fed to the computer in fire control. The MK1 computer figured out where to point the gun so that on the present course of the airplane a shell would intercept it. It also calculated the range to set the timer to so the round would burst near the airplane. All of that fed to the turrets to point them and set the timer on the shell.
The 5" 54 rounds on my ship were 72 lbs if memory serves. BTW does anyone know the difference between 5" 38 and 5" 54 ammo. I know the 38 and 54 refer to the length of the barrels in calibers. But they are both 5" ammo (they should be able to fire out of any 5" weapon) yet they have different weights. For instance, the new 5" 62 Light Weight mount on new Arleigh Burkes can fire 5" 54 rounds, but with a higher initial velocity due to the longer barrel. Are there any other differences to 5" 38? Could you fire 5" 54 out of a 38 mount (or vice versa)?
@@barryd.thomassr.9156 No, I was an FTG aboard a DDG. The 5" 54 is semi fixed and the HE round itself is 72 pounds. Lugged enough of those during unrep to be sure. I just read the 5" 38 HE was 55 pounds, but still no definitive answer on interchangeability. Any old time Gunners mates know?
@@wilsonle61 interchangeable yes but the powder would make a difference considering the 38 used a less powder, considering barrel lengths 5 x 38 vs 5x54, Jersey was my first ship
![เป็นไปได้ไหม - WanMai [Performance Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Eh5hItD4Mr0/mqdefault.jpg)
"The shells, like this one, weighing 55 lbs" this man is holding it with his fingertips lol
It’s hollow
@@dylanlac765n6 But isn't the shell case the majority of the weight? He could be a navy vet, there's videos of gunners on destroyers handling the modern 70lbs 5" shells like they're nothing
This is a full weight shell even though it's inert. Hes just strong!
Clearly it's not loaded with powered ect.
Its a BL&P round, note the blue color of all those types of shells. Which means its inert, but full weight.
I find it staggering that those men could maintain such a high rate of precision fire, with all the complexity`s of the system used at that time. Total Respect to them.
Your welcome.
Fantastic. My girlfriend and I visited about 2 years ago. We were fortunate in that the after 16" turret was open to visitors. Fantastic ship to tour. !
Visited the USS New Jersey summer of 2019. She's a beautiful ship. I scraped my head climbing into the 5 inch gun. haha.
I want that 30-dollar 90-minute guided tour.
@Graf von Losinj I wanna shoot a 16 inch gun but I know dang well that’s impossible
@@invadegreece9281 yep. That would set off every single car alarm in a 1 mile radius
@@ffandrewd2986 would be more worried about how many windows it would shatter in the area
Holy shit. My uncle was one of those Marines. I heard that story multiple times, how they called in a fire mission from the New Jersey.
This brings back a lot of memories, we had the same 5"38 like most American warships. I think we had 6 twin 5"38 mounts, 1 super firing T2 and T3, then 2 port and starboard, fore and aft.
USS Newport News (CA-148) my time aboard 1968-69-70 Call sign THUNDER flag hoist; November - India - Quebec - Quebec Our guns were fully automatic with brass powder charge, loading and firing in any position. We could theoretically fire all 1400 rounds of 8" in 15 min. but I don't think the crew could keep up with the guns. Then onboard the USS Springfield (CLG-7) 71-72 Flag Hoist/Radio Call Sign: November - Whiskey - Delta - Mike. . "Fair Winds and Following Seas" Brothers
@@faranger I was aboard her in 68, 69 and early 70, is there a chance we were on the NN, at the same time?
@@faranger First of all, I thank you and your family for your fathers service. Another coincidence here is that I live 50 miles south of Indy and my ride to the VA every few months takes me near Ft. Benjamin Harrison, in Indianapolis. From me to your father, "Fair Winds and Following Seas" Brother.
@@faranger LOFL, He seems like a real character, my middle son spent 12 years in the Army, I could have not been more proud. I have been to Pearl Harbor, and got to see a few things, my dad was there during WW2. My first GQ station was 5 levels below the main deck between an oil bunker and powder magazine, at least I think that's right (more than 50 yrs ago) so I understand your feelings about being trapped below, sort of the same way I thought about crawling around in the mud and your own excrement. Thank you for your service to, brother.
My boss was on her same time ,he remembers loading the shells up every night. He told me how many shells the USS Newport News could put on a target in 1 minute.....
@@dalekonicke7918 Great ship, and you couldn't ask for a better bunch of guys to work with, I was a 2nd class ET in OE division.
All of which proves how much training is needed to work effectively and maintain a high state of readiness.
My Coast Guard cutter had a single 5”/38 mount in the early 70’s. Our powder casings were aluminum - still have one that was cut down on a lathe.
I've got a base turned into an ashtray, and a full one I use as a funky door stop. My dad collected them, and gave them to my grandfather when he would visit the ship down at Long Beach. Grandfather would craft all kinds of crap out of them.
Our medium endurance had the 3" 50 cal. I have 2 shell casings.
@@chrispileski6640 I had a couple of those too. House was burglarized years back, and the punks stole those. I always wonder, with all of the other valuable crap I have, why take those? Lol
@@RW4X4X3006 I lived in long Beach my whole life and never knew there was a military ship
@@themonolithian My dad's destroyer had a bad rap in the fleet for always crashing into shit while in port there and elsewhere - The pier, buoys, barges, launches, sampans and other destroyers, regardless of who was at the con - hence the nickname 'Rammin Sammy' (USS Samuel N. Moore)
Wow, the design, the building and field engineering of this is amazing. The 5”/38 single and twin mounts were on everyplace that could fit them which meant many custom configurations.
I went through FT "A" school in 1970. Some of my classmates went on to "C" school for the Mk 37 system which was still in use on many WWII vintage ships, especially older DDs. At that time WWII had only ended 25 years before. We always heard the story that the man who invented the MK 1 Able computer went insane after completing the design. I do have a powder case from a 5" 38, used of course.
We used to make ashtrays out of them, the 5" and 8" brass that is.
Was on dd830 5s were right on took down a drome
After firing the 5" guns, were the empty powder cases reused and refilled or just tossed over the side?
Both were done, depending on what was happening. If there were too many stacked up they'd be tossed, if they could be saved they would.
@@BattleshipNewJersey I can vouch for that, it was at the captains discretion, whether we tossed the brass or not, during Vietnam aboard the USS Newport News (CA-148), one of the times we went to Hong Kong, we traded brass for a company to paint out the ship. That way the deck force got more liberty as well, we supplied the paint, brushes, rollers etc., Funny thing, they painted every thing with their hands and kept the brushes and rollers. We also had to stop them from stealing the ships bell.
I was a FTM on the USS Somers (DDG-34, ex-DD-947) from '71 to '73. We had a 5"-54 mount forward. We made one WestPac cruise in '72 off the coast of Vietnam where we did many call-for-fire missions and harassment and interdiction missions with our gun. By '72 most of the power shells were not brass, they were steel. Occasionally, a brass one was received and the spent shell was quickly grabbed by one of the officers. #RHIP. When we were on the gun line, we frequently shot so many rounds that the paint on the gun barrel blistered. We had all-hands working parties every other night for hours hand passing 500+ 5" rounds and then 5" power canisters from the at-sea replenishment deck down to the magazine deck. The jock officers would be the ones hand passing the 5" shells or power canisters from the hatch above to the hatch at their feet. There were no hoists for rearmament on a tin can; all 5" ammo was hand-passed.
every other morning, my 6 hrs out of the handling room was spent reloading the mag's during resupply. We would get done just in time to eat and get back in the mount. Couln't sleep in the bunks because of the fiberglass falling out of the overhead.
I am quickly falling in love with the 5"/38 with every video I see.
Great video - straightforward & really informative!!! Thank you
One round every 4 seconds is absolutely insane!
Expert crews could load one in 3.3-3.5 seconds. The USS Samuel B Roberts did this fast rate of fire in Battle off Samar 1944
Thanks for putting these videos up, I only saw the New jersey for a distance when I was in the USA, but got to tour around the open space on Missouri when I was there, but there were some parts of the ship that weren't open access, so these video let me see some of that, Thank you.
The Ford Mk 1 (later MK2) was a analog computer linked to the air search radar for anti air and anti ship fire. The axis powers never developed a similar system which gave the USN a first round hits when the target at night or in dense fog or smoke and was only visible on the radar screen. In the AA mode all the 5’’ were linked together to attack incoming targets. It was so effective that it’s one of the reasons the IJN turned to the Kamikaze operations. This system basically this was a genius invention which shortly the war and saved lives
I wanna thank you for what you do to educate people on those ship and by that I think you are saving for many years to come and if navy ever needed them again they will still be around to do so. Thank you for preserving the best ships ever made.🙏😇🤘😎🤘
It's been a long time since I saw these guns in action...my ship, the Mason (DD-852) had twin 5"38 mounts fore and aft and I recall when push came to shove once the rate of fire was quite amazing. I recall that the 5" shells came with brass hats or covers and we stored that brass and traded them in Hong Kong for work that Bum-Boat Mary's people did on the ship. I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of those 5" guns.
Having served on both the 105mm M-60A3 and the Abram-saurus, four second reloads are admirable.
You would be exhausted as a loader on 60 or m1 tanks loading 22 rounds a minute . You would have to start tossing empty casings on the 60’s out the loaders hatch
@@genegleason4987 Saw the 4 sec reload in the 1/1 CAV and 11th ACR. Agreed, not sustainable for any length of time, but if you miss the first the second will be on target before the other guy can react.
Love this vid! Missing my grandpa...
I was on the USS Bristol, a 2250 class destroyer. We had 3 twin 5"-38 mounts. Also 40 mm, Torpedo tubes, & 50 caliber guns.
Was on dd830
Uncle Ray the chip maker was on the Bristol as a cook!
Thank you my sumner and gearing sailors!
If either of you are interested in selling cruise books I’m interested.
Great video, and what a magnificent ship. The quality, weight and strength of build shines everywhere you look.
Great editing work! You can tell that the shots and sequences were planned and it really made the action flow
Thank you for these fantastic videos!
Thanks for joining us!
Another great video
Thinking about how these firing platforms were designed and built nearly 90 years ago, and were able to achieve a firing rate of one round every 4 seconds by using the brute strength of men and mechanical methods of that time is stunning.
The shell casings were "densely packed" around the turret and it couldn't "traverse or elevate" freely because of it. I can see that happening.
A turret is part of the Ship. A 5/38 is a Gun Mount and can be lifted off the ship by a crane. It could still elevate that night. We just threw the "Brass" over the side. Not really Brass any more its an Alloy.
On the show The Last Ship, they had a reason to fire the 5" gun several times in rapid succession. The Arleigh Burke's 5" is in the center of the forward deck and if someone was unfortunate enough to be standing in front of it, if the shock wouldn't be enough the rapid ejection of the shells would have knocked that person overboard. Big guns are nice, but more than one enemy learned to not dis the 5".
GHAAA. Having found this channel in late 2020 seeing you in a mustache was jarring.
I love all things battleship and battle cruiser, would love to visit the New Jersey BB-62
Looking forward to your visit someday!
I think its funny when you mention something to someone about these old fire control computers, and people say something like "Computers didn't exist back then".
Computers has existed a long time. Think a human with the ability to count,add,multiply,subtract and divide ?
That is the real definition of an computer when New Jersey and the atomic bomb were designed and built.
So were the B-52 and Glamorous Glennis, Chuck Yeager's Bell X aircraft, they were designed and dimensioned by hand using brain, fingers, pen, logarithm tabels (and in some cases table calculators and card machines.)
An UNIVersal Automatic Computer (or UNIVAC) is something else.
@@TheStefanskoglund1 😆 I know that. Just some that don't want to listen.
@@TheStefanskoglund1 Don't know about the real definition of a computer but what you describe can simply be called calculators. The difference between calculators and a computer is that calculators can give you the value of A and B and the sum of both; a computer can tell if A or B is the greater value. In other words a calculator handles 1 computation/calculation at a time but a computer can handle multiple lines of calculations and combine their results.
People think "Personal Computers" and "Computers" are the same thing. And PC's didn't exist back then.
I always found it funny that our very important fire-control-computer was comparable to a Commodore 64 with 64kB of extra memory. This was in the late nineties when people had pc's that were far more powerful computation-wise.
@@DreadX10 The personnel doing calculations in an engineering and/or research shop were called computers.
With regards to fire control computers: Things doing ballistic calculations DON'T need that much memory. Well known and defined speed and correct results is far more important. Neither were it necessary that they were simple to program in - well trained people did the programming (compare the Bendig G-15 with a VIC 20 for example. The G-15 were the first computer which was easy enough to use and cheap enough so that one example could be reserved for the usage of ONE engineer. Though it wasn't easy to program so it soon got obsolete.)
USN operated computers on their submarine fire controls circa 1938 or '39, the TDC(torpedo data computer)
My dad served on a 1600ton destroyer during WW2, his first GQ station was in the 51 mount handling room. While in action against a U-boat in the med (it was probably U-63 based on the stories he told vs the ship's history I can find) word was passed to clear all forward spaces as the skipper felt they might end up ramming the German. My dad said the guy in the powder magazine came through the scuttle and was on the ladder before my dad could turn around and take the couple of steps to the ladder!
Oof, he was in the deep mag?
Yes, that place is still considered a death trap for mt51(the only mount retained by Burke DDGs).
@@Grimmwoldds yeah, initially, then they realized he was a QM and moved him to the wheelhouse.
@@stephenbritton9297 The wisdom of the USN stationing an enlisted navigation and seamanship specialist in the deepest part of the ship slinging shells...
Shall not be questioned. There's a good reason for everything.
Someday that reason might be declassified.
1600 tons sounds more like DE.
@@teller1290 1600 ton standard displacement (Benson/Livermore/Gleaves classes) 2400 ton full loaded (Buckley class DE was 1700ton full loaded, so you’re not off base) Tonnage is a confusing subject...
Operation "Oceanview" was the name used by the Marines that night ! FYI. The rammer's part was called a "Spade" when the breach block pushed it up it caught the big long brass "Cam"and rode it up and back to the ready position, Easy to see in the video. As it returned it rose up so when gun was fired. The ejector Pauls of the breach block then pushed the empty brass back out. It easly slide under the Spade as it was now up. Expended brass slide out the back of the gun into a chute then out opening demonstrated in video. What else do you want to know about the 5/38's in Viet Nam We were the 5th Div. "Salts of the Earth"
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_View_(Vietnam)
In 1969 our naval gunfire team called in 0ver 5,000 rounds of 5 and 16 inche off the new Jersey and 3 artillery batteries of 105 howitzers and 8 inch.the firefight lasted all knight when the NVA tried to over run us at Charlie 4 just below the dmz..awesome!!! get some!!😊😊😊
Thanks for the video. And I’m sure that those Marines appreciated the fire support against attacking NVA forces.
love this channel
The 5 inch gun fires a shell slightly larger than what the 120mm main gun on the m1 abrams..
I saw one big mistake on loading the 5" projectiles. When loading in projectiles on to the loading tray you would not have your fingers flat unless you want your fingers smashed flat or worse loosing a finger or two. This is an excellent way to getting your fingers smashed between the loading tray and the 5" projectile. The correct way to guide the projectile is to make a cat's paw and guide the projectile into the position to be loaded with the hand closest to the breach. Then with the opposite hand use that hand to ram home the projectile and powder case. Former GMG3 on USS Rogers DD 876 a Gearing Class Destroyer.
Was on dd830
Tin can sailor newspaper Roger s was in it
I’ve got news papers from my family from consolidated steel in Orange , Texas announcing the launch of the Newman K Perry.
This guy: today I am gonna show you a 5 inch 38 caliber gun.
Me: is it a Colt Cobra?
I live in Bremerton, Wa. Where these ships were maintained- where I work actually. Around town there are old 40mm Pom Pom guns. Wonder if those are from the Iowa class??
Okay as far as it goes. Could have provided more info concerning the ramming and case ejection. The chutes that would have been rigged to the rear of the guns directing spent cases out of the mount. Also no mention made of the upper case ejection ports, when the barrels were at too high an elevation for the case to be ejected from the lower port. Hot shellman would clear the case from the pit and throw it out the upper ejection port.
And what about the buffet? According to my dad, on his can they would spend hours upon hours in the mount while at GQ or chasing trains up and down the North Korean coast. Cooked up their own grub in there.
Excellent! Would you mind shelling Trenton and Newark now please? Thank You.
Trenton and the New Jersey Department of State provide operational support for the museum and this channel.
@@BattleshipNewJersey Ok. No problem. Right across the river there's a ripe target of opportunity. Fire at will.
Why do you hate America? Other people are literally dying to come here while you hate it.
@@tonymanero5544 - you have no sense of humor. And you obviously have never been to New Jersey 🤣
@@petersouthernboy6327 That, or he's never left the state :-)
Fantastic footage, thankyou
Great job on the video.. My son and I will be visiting sometime later this year I hope.
It is amazing to me how many sailors are required to be on station for any critical shipboard task. The powder and shells are passed from man to man numerous times in this process, rather than simply rolling onto a conveyor belt one time.
I love the history and deep dive into the ship. However I would mention there is great value in putting someone used to delivering info and with some on camera experience in front of the camera. Yes I know it costs money ectect, but the fact remains.
I wish NC would restore more of their 5-in gun system.
I always took for granted that the 5 inch guns were similar to the 16 inch guns. I never knew there was a metal casing for the powder. I assumed they used (smaller) powder bags. The 5 inch guns almost seem more labor intensive than the 16 inch guns.
In a way, they are, they definitely rely on manpower more and they have a much higher rate of fire. But a smaller impact.
Playing World of Warships with the USS Kidd, I was thinking, "these 5 inch guns reload super quick are they sure they could do it this fast?" Its set to 4 seconds per shot and it is absolutely devastating.
Great video. Thanks for sharing.
Can you do a video about autoloader of 8" guns on USS Salem and the loading procedure for the 3 inch AA gun
They did that now
The 5 in gun was the back bone of navy guns the big boys did there job but the 5 an 3 with about an beyond
The USS New Jersey,her powerful and accurate 16 inch and 5 inch guns are a great morale booster claimed the USMC
My favorite story is from a reddit user, u/Anathemamaranatha on r/militarystories, with the post named "Bridges".
It's a very long story so i cut it down a bit.
He was a Army Artillery officer attached to USMC at the time. The Marine Amphibs had a fire mission, plotted about 800m from 1 of their infantry patrols. They were adamant to use the New Jersey. So, he called his AVRN officer (Trung úy aka 1st Lieutenant) to authorize it.
AM: (pointing at the spot on a map) "Hăi pháo (navy gun), shoot here"
TU: "Yah. Shoot".
AM: (i don't think he understand me) "Hăi pháo"
TU: "Yah. Shoot".
AM: (take a piece of pen and paper, wrote 406mm on it) "Hăi pháo"
TU: (eye wide) "NO SHOOT!"
So, in the end they use 5 inch guns to do the job.
Be interesting to see how much damage the shells do when they hit land.
@@faranger I was hoping to watch the shells explode from the remoteness of tv :-)
That was GREAT!!! Thank you!
If you had made this video three seconds shorter it would have been 5:38 long...🙃🙃
Awesome. Live this stuff
Been to the New Jersey and it was a good tour I also have been on the Alabama and there was much more open to the public on that tour.. they are awesome ships! Can you tell me why so much more was available to see on the Alabama
Alabama has been a museum a lot longer so they've had more years to do the restoration. However, in the last 2 years we've opened ALOT! We have more open than they do now.
I always wanted to see inside the 5 inch guns. My only regret is I have but 1 like to give.
Thanks to the Ship's Bugler we now know the Ship's Call Sign back then was " ONRUSH "
ONRUSH is correct for the new Jersey l was there in 1968-1969 as a naval gunfire shore fire control party usmc-mos 0849 3rd mar. div.vietnam 1968-1969.
USS Alabama BB 60 in WW2 - During a Japanese air attack on the fleet on 21 February, Alabama's No. 9 5-inch turret accidentally fired into the No. 5 mount, killing five and wounding eleven men. That day, Alabama took part in a sweep to the southeast of Saipan to search for Japanese vessels that might be in the area. There is a plaque on the gun mount in Mobile, Alabama as a memorial to the men that lost their lives due to friendly fire.
Great vid, thanks.
Amazing! Thank you
What happened to all those brass casings ejected onto the deck? If a ship engaged in uncontested shore bombardment there would be after action time to gather them up as valuable strategic material, I hope (WW II). Would they they be stowed in the empty magazines, or more easily stacked elsewhere?
If possible, they could gather them up and they could be recycled. If they fired a lot of rounds, they get in the way and they go over board.
Can you do a video regarding the removal of the four 5” turrets and how the spaces below were changed / utilized for running the cabling for the new missile systems. Also, were the removed turrets scrapped or are they still around somewhere?
You can find that video right here: th-cam.com/video/aZPLtiQ3DX0/w-d-xo.html
@@BattleshipNewJersey Thanks 🙂👍🏻. That was very educational. Nothing was mentioned about the 5” turrets so I assume they were probably scrapped along with the hoist machinery.
The squids put in some work firing 1100 rounds. Sadly, we will never have fire support like that anymore from the sea.
question - at 3:22 you lift a powder canister up from the hoist, with the rim up. I assume the other end is open. Won't the powder etc fall out of the brass at that point? Or was that a mistake (putting it in the hoist upside down)?
For us its upside down to hide that its empty
@@BattleshipNewJersey LOL; the powder-cartridge had a cork plug to keep it's contents inside. www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_5-38_mk12.php , the penultimate image shows "Cutaway sketch of 5"/38 (12.7 cm) ammunition."
Awesome... thanks. That was great.
Would be nice to have video of them firing.
Check out our more recent videos, you'll see a clip of them firing in the first 5 seconds.
My uncle was a 5" shell striker on the Alabama. I think I know what that means. As a retired theatre/film professor I was aware that to "strike the set" meant to dismantle it. Pertaining to "striking" shells I would like to know precisely what my uncle was doing. Thanks in advance for an answer if you would be so kind.
I do not know that job title, but here is a link to a training manual for 5" gun crews. Perhaps one of these will fit what you know. maritime.org/doc/destroyer/fiveinch/index.htm
Did project KATIE have special powder handling requirements? or assembly requirements, something i saw on another video is starting to make sense.
Heres a whole video on that: th-cam.com/video/Pq3WYY9Aiys/w-d-xo.html
22 February 1969. Could that be the engagement where Wesley Fox earned his medal of honor?
Is it 500 rounds PER gun tube or PER gun MOUNT?
How do you ignite the powder bags?
Nevermind! I looked it up, a primer charge.
My father was in World War II. He served on the USS Chilton, APA 38, as a “hot shellman on the forward five inch” as he put it. The picture in my mind was that his job was to grab the hot shells as they came out of the gun and throw them overboard, but I could be wrong. Can you please clarify what he might have been doing?
"Shellmen, powdermen, and hoistmen make up the ammunition supply system.
The shellman supplies properly fuzed projectiles to the shell loader via the fuze pots. On all twin mount guns and on some single mount guns the fuze pots are a part of the projectile hoist. In this case the shellman loads a projectile into the fuze pot and fills the projectile hoist simultaneously. At "secure" the shellman replaces the safety pins, nose caps, and grommets after checking that all nose fuzes are set on "Safe."
The powderman supplies fresh powder cartridges to the powder loader directly or by means of a powder scuttle. At "Secure" the powderman replaces the primer protecting caps on the cartridges and stows them in the powder tanks.
The hoistman operates a projectile hoist or powder hoist, or a combination projectile-and-powder hoist, to hoist ammunition up to the gun. At "Secure" the hoistman secures hoist in accordance with ship's doctrine and turns off power motor.
Sometimes the shellman or the powderman acts as a hoistman, too. Without proper knowledge this would lead to confusion. If you are in the ammunition supply crew, know all three jobs well: shellman, powderman, and hoistman"
Check out this manual on 5" guns from 1943 for more info: maritime.org/doc/destroyer/fiveinch/index.htm
For even more information, because we have it, we have an entire digitized 5in gun manual that has way more pictures but is less searchable at: drive.google.com/drive/folders/1CwKak3U-N8poRoakp_0IdoPvZUNTT7Wv?usp=sharing
How are the powder canisters primed for firing?
I always wondered what the brass was from. What sets of those 5 inch rounds? Didn't see a percussion cap.
@@Foxxo_42 it's a test canister for pre fire checks, a primer is placed inside inorder to make sure you have a good circuit when firing
How different is this setup from modern 5’ guns?
You’d think they’d have put a mat down to protect the deck from the spent casings.
The teak does a pretty good job of it!
Unfortunately, the museum is located in New Jersey, so I will never see it.
Virtually it is! Welcome aboard!
@@BattleshipNewJersey Your guys' work is definitely appreciated.
Thanks!
To think that 5-inch guns are currently the biggest main guns in our navy. (Besides the 6.1"/155mm guns on the Zumwalt-class destroyers)
@John Smith missiles are not guns
@John Smith they also cost a lot more. Cheaper to use guns for naval support during beach landing and you can carry more shells than missiles. Id rather have a 5-8in gun with a couple hundred rounds each to cover my beach landings in a major war that a handful of missiles
The Zumwalt guns are purely decorative - they don't have ammunition. The Navy ended up getting smart shells moving for the existing 5" guns.
@John Smith That is not entirely true. The use case Congress brings up is an opposed landing - where you don't have precise info on things that are happening, but you have a general area where you want to cause trouble. We haven't done an opposed landing since Chromite back during Korea, but they always brought it up, keeping two battleships active until the Soviet Union collapsed.
I know that the deal with the Navy prohibits you firing the boilers or shelling Philly what else aren't you allowed to do? Can you activate a small dredger hoist or simulate shell handling or is it just a lack of money that stops some of these?
This should mostly answer that question for you: th-cam.com/video/lK9ofM6ef5g/w-d-xo.html
almost? only the 38 caliber versions of the guns are retired, the last retired in 2008. their younger brothers, the 54 caliber, are active and thriving on the guided missile destroyers and cruisers
Those men must have been busier than one-armed paper hangers.
if there were 20 divebombers this demo might take 5 seconds
This guy is holding a 55 pound shell as if it were a medium sized bucket of popcorn. First this my visionary caught .
4-sounds/round?! This a fully manual process. Current 5-inch/54-caliber, Mk 45 navy gun advertises 3-seconds/round; and this is automatic for a 20-round loader. *Gunner’s mates* _seriously_ earning their dinner rations during those evolutions.
It's even cooler than that. The 3second rof is because the barrel vibrates from the projectile interacting with the grooves and even with modern metals it still takes that long to dampen down so precision is not affected. They were a second off from matching the limits of the guns themselves.
what id like to know is how comes in the film battleship they only needed 10 people to fully crew the entire ship? i thought the full compliment was around 2500?
Keep in mind the movie also had the 5 inch gun on a Burke being fired from the optical sight by a GM.
So that’s where the inspiration for the 1950’s electric range came from...
We called the blue rounds puff rounds, easy to see hits.
Blue means training doesn't it?
@@SOU6900 yes
Secondary builds usually are only good on the Massachusetts, French and German BBs. World of Warships reference......
I've always been curious how those weapons achieved dual purpose status during WWII, given the need for turret to keep pace with planes.
I didn't know those guns stayed active after advent of jet age. Always wanted to talk to WWII gunner to learn how those worked.
These didn't track planes and shoo at them like lighter 40mm or 20mm guns. They fired area barrages that enemy planes would have to fly through.
These are some exceptionally common guns throughout the 20th century, for shore bombardment, primarily, but also for anti-ship defense. These guns worked against planes as part of a larger defense platform that included the 40mm and 20mm guns.
For air targeting they had a MK37 director. An officer used a periscope to pick the target. Three sailors were each tasked with train, elevation and range tracking with radar. Train and elevation cranked handwheels to aim the director and used a scope that they kept the peak centered on to keep the dish pointed at the airplane. The range used a delay line to adjust delay to match the delay line distance with the radar return to get the airplanes distance. All three were then fed to the computer in fire control.
The MK1 computer figured out where to point the gun so that on the present course of the airplane a shell would intercept it. It also calculated the range to set the timer to so the round would burst near the airplane. All of that fed to the turrets to point them and set the timer on the shell.
@@matthewbeasley7765 wow, amazing stuff for '45. I wonder they became obsolete for AA purposes...jet age?
Yeah, modern jets just move too fast for these guns to really be effective.
very cool
Were the empty 5" powder cases reused and refilled or just tossed over the side?
Tossed over.
Is the RoF number you cited per gun or per turret?
30 seconds per gun
Did BB62 shoot proximity fused 5" rounds at aircraft?
Absolutely
@@BattleshipNewJersey Any chance we could get a video on how the proximity fuse shells worked?
The 5" 54 rounds on my ship were 72 lbs if memory serves. BTW does anyone know the difference between 5" 38 and 5" 54 ammo. I know the 38 and 54 refer to the length of the barrels in calibers. But they are both 5" ammo (they should be able to fire out of any 5" weapon) yet they have different weights. For instance, the new 5" 62 Light Weight mount on new Arleigh Burkes can fire 5" 54 rounds, but with a higher initial velocity due to the longer barrel. Are there any other differences to 5" 38? Could you fire 5" 54 out of a 38 mount (or vice versa)?
5" 38 are semi fixed (2 piece ) ammo I belive the 54 is fixed (1 piece )
@@barryd.thomassr.9156 No, I was an FTG aboard a DDG. The 5" 54 is semi fixed and the HE round itself is 72 pounds. Lugged enough of those during unrep to be sure. I just read the 5" 38 HE was 55 pounds, but still no definitive answer on interchangeability. Any old time Gunners mates know?
@@wilsonle61 interchangeable yes but the powder would make a difference considering the 38 used a less powder, considering barrel lengths 5 x 38 vs 5x54, Jersey was my first ship
Are the 5" guns on the BB compatible with the modern Ammo on current destroyers?
No. But, in theory, you could fire the older 5/38 ammunition in 5/54 or 5/62 guns.
Sir, would there be a seperate magazine for the AA rounds or was it just one magazine for all rounds?
One magazine.
Check this out
th-cam.com/video/jMkFGKFXa20/w-d-xo.html
Did they paint the New Jersey’s shells in accordance with NATO guidelines for Vietnam?
They were painted for the type of munitions that the round contained .