TERRIBLE Decision by Air Traffic Controller
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- ATC is there to keep planes and pilots safe and they have a very stressful job that requires a lot of focus. The job isn't for everyone but this controller gets into it with a examiner representing FAA.
Be Part of the 74 Crew:
IG: / 74gear
Twitter: / 74gear
Facebook: / 74gear
Flight Simulator Gear I use:
Yoke: geni.us/SimYoke
Computer: geni.us/Gaming...
Flight Gear I use:
Aviation Headset: geni.us/Aviati...
Backpack: geni.us/PilotB...
Traveling headset: geni.us/DHheadset
Video Gear I use:
Camera: geni.us/VideoC...
Action Camera: geni.us/Action...
Flight Audio Connector: geni.us/Flight...
ND Filter: geni.us/NDFilter
I may receive a commission on some of these links but it will not change the price you pay for the items.
We had a controller at my training airport that was a miserable SOB. When he retired the local pilots threw a retirement party, but they didn't invite him.
That's the way to do it!
😂
Fantastic
🤣🤣
I love it 🤣
Reddit comment on the incident above, with links to more of the backstory:
"I own San Carlos Flight Center (Bay Flight callsign). This controller is the Air Traffic Manager at SQL. This incident happened over a month ago, and nothing has changed. Senior Management in the FAA's Air Traffic Organization is aware of the issues and has directly acknowledged this incident. Following the incident, I called the tower to express my concerns and the controller responded by telling me that I'm a "princess" for caring about this, was told that it's "bullshit" that I report safety incidents, and was told that if he was fired his bosses would be "doing him a fucking favor". The same FAA management acknowledged the phone call and are fully aware that this controller is the manager at San Carlos. They still haven't taken any action."
Please tell us you're kidding.
@@FlyingDoctor60let's hope so, but my gut says he's not joking.
He's not joking. That POS controller is still there
Oh. MY. That is bad enough that the tower deserves to have everyone at the highest level fired and replaced, and the tower taken off work for a few days in order to do that.
Sounds familiar, there are a number of important jobs where those charged with oversight are JUST as ignorant as the individuals causing the issues. In my case, government officials who neither know nor care about the rules & processes put in place to protect the public. So, I refer to attorneys - a lawsuit in the end gets the job done. It's bullsht that we pay people to enforce the rules only to waste money on a bunch of useless users.
If I was that trainee pilot, I would be so relieved having a DE having my back like this DE does, just knowing I wasn't taking all that heat myself
Like this guy, most DPEs will just quietly observe for a while and speak up at the end. It allows them to see your composure and judgement when you handle real adverse situations.
Yeah, it seemed like the examiner played it perfectly, let the pilot catch enough heat to gauge how he handled it, then stepped in to crack the whip a little. I hope that, even if the ATC didn't get fired, they let that DPE have a little "chat" with him.
Retired controller here. That controller’s attitude and unprofessional behavior is a disgrace to my profession. Unfortunately there are people who get off on humiliating others, and they tend to gravitate toward professions like ATC and law enforcement. We need to be more diligent about weeding them out of such jobs.
The problem is, in law enforcement, that's the personality they are looking for.
He even tried to humiliate the examiner who represents the FAA
It's such a high accountability job. Some people can handle that with the understanding that it's a team effort, some people let it go to their heads and see themselves as the star of the show. In my industry, whenever something goes crazy wrong it's a sure bet that the person fancying themselves as Amazing McKnowitall had a hand in the disaster.
@@av8rdavincredibly ignorant comment but I'm sure in your ignorance you don't value truth.
@@SpicyTexan64keep eating that boot bro, the flavors not gonna change
The “Kaiser Hospital” is not depicted on a VFR Sectional - the Cement Plant is. There is no requirement for the pilot to know where the hospital is.
Kieser sucks. They charge you for flying over it!
@@timtreeborgsonjen1533 what about flying into it?
You have to have Kieser insurance to fly into it. Lol
I suspect you could find the hospital by looking for the building with a helipad on the roof.
@@robertabarnhart6240 I think your guessing, I don't think that's good for flying.
One aspect that wasn't mentioned: It's not just about the _potential_ damage the guy may cause in a future incident. It's also about his impact on culture. Like how one rude guy at the office slowly poisons the climate if he goes unchecked, and eventually it becomes the new norm.
This ^. It only takes one bad apple to rot the barrel
This is the "impatient controller" who most intimidates rookie pilots into NOT admitting when they don't know the area or are unclear on something, NOT helpful at all.
Absolutely amazing point. As someone in healthcare I have seen just how bad it can get. In high stress fields, teamwork is so crucial.
❤
Such a good point- such a good point!
Well said, I wish police would be held to the same standard
Damn that controller needs a reality check, there's no way you can work such a sensitive job with such a bad attitude.
The problem is..... the guy who was on the frequency isn't just some random controller, he's actually a manager at the airport.
There have been major problems with ATC at this airport for a while now. It's been discussed a lot in California aviation circles.
@@warren_r-- Ah, and typical corrupt Commiefornia has to protect their dictators.
@@warren_r With the controller being a manager that is even more concerning because he is more likely to foster a culture of disrespect, unprofessionalism, and lack of attention to safety as he has a leadership role. He could be a cause of the proverbial fish rotting from the head down.
Being a manager, he has probably been on the job for awhile now. I wonder if his behavior has always been like this or did it change at some point. If it changed at some point, there could be a psychological or even biological reason for his improper behavior.
@@Eternal_Tech It is almost never good for a manager to try to do the job they manage.
There are three reasons someone would become manager:
1 - they have people skills and enough knowledge about the job to manage the people doing the job.
2 - they have seniority so you can't fire them, but they are losing their edge (especially for a job like air traffic controller)
3 - they are good at their job, they have seniority and it is the only way to make more money.
#1 Should never try to do the job. They might be great managers, and popular as long at they listen to the people that actually know all the ins and outs of the job.
#2 These are the worst, they are not management material, they will interfere with job, micro manage and continue to be a general nuisance. Best case, they can be replaced as management are easier to fire (but instead have huge severance packages).
#3 These can go both ways, they can be great bosses, especially for someone that is new on the job, they will recognize skills. But they could also be terrible leaders, and after a few years they will have lost the edge, and now they are just mediocre management. But in the end, they will probably quit once they realise that they wanted to do the job. not be managers.
@@warren_r Get it out of the aviation circles and in to the public domain. Call the local news stations. Invite them on a ride along.
Wow. "You fly the airplane, I'll fly the Tower." Um, yeah, CLEARLY this controller should NOT be in this job. Imagine how this person would handle an emergency. At night. In bad weather. With a rookie pilot seeking assistance. Just sayin'...😳
I guess he would be that bad, but i think he is likely gonna create a disaster!
Everyone winds up dealing with people like this at times, but hopefully most of us won't be caught in a potentially life threatening situation when it happens. This ahole has no business being ATC. Nothing will ever overcome that level of arrogance, at least not in my own personal experience.
Very dangerous.
I want to know how well he flies the tower.
@@franciscampagna2711 lol, agreed.
On the other hand, based on the audio, that student handled being berated...under the nose of a Designated Examiner...extremely well. He was already under a tremendous amount of pressure already and seems to have handled this controller well on top of it. He landed the airplane, he continued to communicate appropriately...hope he passed his check-ride.
Yes, he didn't get argumentative or lose his cool and he maintained composure. Good attributes for a pilot.
no sir, on the other hand we have 4 fingers and a thumb.
The thin skinned DE didn't.
I’d argue he actually benefitted quite a bit from this exchange. Since the controller was so out of line, he may have garnered some sympathy from his examiner during the flight. Not that the examiner would have passed him had he made an error, but rather the examiner probably told the pilot he handled himself well under poor conditions.
Sorry but the DE only said to keep it off the air which was totally the right response. How you get thin skinned from that shows that you are probably thin skinned. @@TheBlueScarecrow
I’m a controller in the UK, 28 years valid, and this controller is an absolute tool. We’re on the same team as pilots, not trying to make them look stupid. If a pilot needs help, give it.
This guy needs a different job.
selling burgers...!
@@colinfigures6272 better sweeping streets. I wouldn't trust him with my food 😐
He needs to be working in retail.
Everyone has bad days, but based on the comments, seems like this controller is exhibiting a pattern of this behavior. This needs addressed by the FAA.
I am not a pilot, but in any business, there are people who should not be operating in the front end of the business. This ATC should be controlling the movement of the mophead on the airport floor.
Oh lighten up. The air traffic controller maybe had a bad night sleep or death in family. Or the airport is real busy. And the pilot messed up, ignoring the request to turn at hospital, that was a far worse mistake.... All the comments say this controller " shoudlnt be allowed in the job". We ALL have snapped at someone on the job, right??? Should we all be fired?. This pilot did wrong, on a sunny safe day why not yell at him a bit? In France they will call you a moron if mess up, when did America get full of snowflakes. Soon only meek women with bad actual skills will be in all jobs, if 1 rude comment for minute gets ya fired. I want a genius but rude atc, not a meek polite person.... Fun to see all the snowflakes who somehow got to adulthood being such wussies,us humans are weird. Is New York where all are rude the last place without snowflakes.... Go jump in the Hudson you guys.. A pilot should be tough, the toughest,
@@citylockapolytechnikeyllcc7936hahaha i like that
@@mbengambenga-xi6dp we literally know about this controller BECAUSE of the length of time and severity at which they've been a toxic scumbag. If you'd cared to learn about this beforehand, you wouldn't have had to go on that crazed rant.
And idk what triggered you but it's hilarious you are trying to call others snowflakes while acting like that when we are talking about a toxic controller going unpunished with plenty of evidence if you cared to look.
@@cherriberri8373the person you responded to is not visible in my feed. Can you tell me what they said?
DE to controller "Get a pen..I have a number for YOU to write down..."
Every pilot's fantasy . . .🤣
They're called DPE's in the States btw. P being Pilot.
@@ziggystardust4627 🤣🤣🤣
Oh, how I wish
"Possible controller violation, advise ready to copy number"
As a contoller I've listened to many pilots talk about ATC. From what I've hear pilots really appreciate when ATC is the comforting voice that treats everyone alike. Doesn't matter if you are a first solo flight or piloting air force one. I will still treat you the same with the same tone in my voice and help you do whatever you set up yo do.
@HenkeB we really do acknowledge and appreciate the 99% of controllers who act professionally. And we're also aware that there is a percentage of pilots that could work on their attitude and professionalism.
@HenkeB the manner and behaviour you describe is how I’ve experienced every controller, thankfully. But I haven’t flown in the US for many years. The kind of behaviour on show here is truly shocking!
Thank you
I used to know how to talk to you people from a pilots perspective. But because I don't use it everyday (not a pilot, but wishing I was) I have lost most of the lingo u.u I hope one day to be a pilot..
Now that's the kind of controller I'd like to talk to but I don't even have a pilot's license. Still, good work! I'm sure there are a lot of people who are just learning and need someone on the ground who is a controller because they give a damn.
I flew into San Carlos yesterday and just as an experiment asked where the cement plant is when he gave the clearance. The supervisor immediately jumped on and gave the location and said something like "I'll keep an eye on you and tell you when to turn". It seems like they're making an effort to do better.
Word, does get around! lol.
In the past it seemed that this contract tower almost went out of their way to be terrible despite the publicity. It's one data point, but it seems that someone is trying to do better.
Turn right at Kaiser hospital, straighten out when you see Carlos's taco wagon. Continue to the Burger King and make a right there. Then line up your approach with the Popeyes chicken just past the end of the runway.
@@RRaucinayou missed the left at the Planet Fitness between Carlos’ and the Burger King… lol. Your comment made me really laugh out loud 😂👏🏻
@@Lisalvsjohn If you're going through Burger King and Taco stands you 50/50 know where planet fitness is.
I currently work right next to San Carlos airport. There is a school with a stable of various planes. I watch touch-n-go's or full stops all day and the pattern is always pretty full. I would not be surprised that a pilot was renting a plane to get checked out and was not familiar with the local area.
I have a number of friends who are controllers and they are some of the nicest, most helpful people I know. They say they give teaching moments, not criticism. This guy deserved what was coming to him for his attitude.
DPE's as they're properly called in the states do check rides for a new rating or license. Only regular CFI's do check outs for rentals.
And some DPE's are FAA people 100%. Most however are high time highly skilled airline Captains or Master CFI's.
When I was doing my CFI training, my instructor was a Master CFII and DE. Compliments from him were rare.
We went on a training flight in a TB-20, prop control cable failed. I immediately looked at him and asked if he should take control. He just shook his head and said, "you're the pilot-in-command."
We returned to the home field with a semi spicy landing, but the debrief is what got me. "You're more scared of me than the airplane. You are a master of any aircraft once you stop thinking about me."
It sounds silly, but being terrified of a DE can also be counterproductive, because they often have a lot of wisdom to offer. For me, it was to be more confident in my knowledge, skills, and experience.
@@derekaldrich330Thanks for sharing your experience. I would think that was an incredible boost to your overall confidence (along with a drop of wisdom). Glad to hear that you handled the emergency yourself.
@@derekaldrich330 "semi spicy" cool. Remember, your examiner was putting his safety in your hands, as well.... he had already determined you were qualified to handle the situation.
As a retired air traffic controller with over 40 years of experience I completely agree with Kelsey's assessment of this "controller". Totally embarrassing to the aviation community and a potential danger that this type of person is permitted to remain on position.
Right? I remember a time when mature adults roamed the Earth. I'm a recently retired pilot with over 40 years. Back when I first started people would make it a matter of pride to be unfailingly polite on the radio, and even if someone got out of line to not react in kind. More to the point, if someone was obviously unfamiliar or got flustered, both controllers and pilots would for the most part maintain professional decorum out of respect.
Toward the end of my career I saw a rapid ramp up of both pilots and controllers acting like 10 year old children on the radio and in exchanges. No excuse or room for this kind of embarrassing conduct. Unfortunately I think this mirrors a coarsening of society and civility in the general population.
Congrats on your retirement. I've always been very impressed by "old school" controllers.
@@pi-sx3mb I'm still on the job, coming up on 30 years now. I absolutely agree with you that the airspace used to be a whole lot friendlier. I think it is unfortunate that this is a sign of the times. I miss the "old school" aviation professionals as a group. Not many left out there.
@@mountainrunner6922 Absolutely. It was a more civil time all-around, and maintaining radio discipline under fire was the mark of a true professional. Things always work out better when people show grace under pressure. I was fortunate to be based in ORD most of my career, and those controllers could handle a crushing workload with aplomb and a sense of humor and never miss a beat when things started to unravel. Hang in there - blue skies and tailwinds until retirement!
🙏 😌
Bingo!
kick this guy off to Mcdon
My Grandfather was an FAA DE. He failed a woman on her twin engine exam. The next day, he went to the hospital for chemo, and the nurse administrating chemo was that woman. He laughed and said that he hoped she didn't hold grudges. 🤣🤣🤣
LOL
The nurse should appreciate your grandpa didn’t send an unprepared pilot to die😀
@@dtsh4451maybe, but since you pay for check rides she felt that she was ready. I am confident in hindsight she would agree and appreciate his judgement.. in hindsight
@@dtsh4451 She passed it on her second try. He had a photo of the two of them on the runway and in the hospital. 🤣
@@RugNugwholesome
Center controller here. When a pilot asks me to confirm their assigned altitude I always say " maintain.... thank you for checking". A busted altitude could lead to a midair and I don't want pilots to feel intimidated to ask.
Thanks for your commitment to keeping us safe
Fantastic.
Bless you.l
thats climate and culture brother!!!
I went to a pilot-mill school where the training went way too fast and my instructor specifically told us during our instrument training, "Don't bother reading the section about holds in the textbook tonight, I'll teach you "the pen trick""... this resulted in having NO situational awareness during the hold and using the GPS map as a crutch (or rather as the basis of everything).
Unbelievably I had no awareness or understanding of how to enter a hold on a DIRECT entry if the turn exceeded 180 degrees.
During my checkride hold the GPS map was in "north-up" instead of "track up" as I was used to and (unbelievably!) no one had shown me how to change it.
I failed the checkride for failing to enter a hold on a direct entry because a turn in excess of 180 degrees was completely confusing using "the pen trick" taught by my instructor.
I felt like a complete failure when I failed, but it made me a much better instructor than I might have been otherwise.
I made sure that no other instructor in the entire world would teach hold entries and practice them as thoroughly as I did with my students.
And none of my students failed their checkrides. None!
You are exactly right that failures are extremely valuable learning experiences that make you better.
FYI: This controller is a tower mgr and nothing absolutely nothing has been done about him. The big flight school there, the owner called because it was one of his students. He told senior mgmt to remove him or demote and was called a Karen princess, lol. Honestly that controller does need to be canned because it's obvious he's been getting away with a lot.
There is a shortage of ATC, so doesn't surprise me that unless he puts peoples lifes in danger nothing will be done
@@kinai01This does put lives in danger because people can’t call mayday conditions during such arguments due to the line being busy.
After this? His infamy might just cause him some trouble. 😅
@@paulstelian97 If you need to call "mayday," you can always go to 121.500
It is a good practice to have it dialed up in com2, even if you keep the volume down.
(Of course, if you call "mayday" on 121.500, you're likely to be bombarded with "You're on guard!" by the numbskulls who do that kind of thing.)
@@paulstelian97There’s also the risk that pilots may not call out emergencies because they’ve scared of the ATC. It’s like the consequences of bad CRM, but with the ATC.
The hospital part reminded me of an old joke:
Speedbird 206: "Frankfurt, Speedbird 206 clear of active runway." Ground: "Speedbird 206. Taxi to gate Alpha One-Seven." The BA 747 pulled onto the main taxiway and slowed to a stop.
Ground: "Speedbird, do you not know where you are going?" Speedbird 206: "Stand by, Ground, I'm looking up our gate location now." Ground (with quite arrogant impatience): "Speedbird 206, have you not been to Frankfurt before?" Speedbird 206 (coolly): "Yes, twice in 1944, but it was dark, -- And I didn't land."
I was racking my brain to post that exact story.
Lol
Hahaha 😂
Heard a similar joke not related to aviation:
An 83 year old Army Vet arrived in Paris by plane. As he was fumbling in his bag for his passport, a stern French customs agent asked if he had been to France before. He admitted that he had been previously.
The agent sarcastically said, "Then you should have known to have your passport out and ready, Sir."
The old timer says "I didn't have to show it last time I was here."
"Impossible!" the agent shouted. "ALL foreigners have always been required to show a passport to enter the country."
The man responded "Well, when I came ashore in June '44, I couldn't find any frenchmen to show it to."
@@expert_fretwork 100% accurate! J
As an air traffic controller one of the things I tell student pilots is; when in doubt, ask. Sure it may be an annoyance when you have aircraft lined up one mile apart for ten miles, but it's a lot better than the alternative.
This controller gives all of us a bad reputation.
“When in doubt, ask”. I’m a professional machinist, closing in on 20 years being paid to do it, longer learning my craft. I get prints from some customers that have that exact phrase on it. We machinists do indeed have opinion on engineers, but I probably ask more now in my career now than I did 10 years ago. I strive for excellence, so making sure my questions are answered aids in that. I have yet to contact an engineer that was condescending. “When in doubt, ask”, best advice you can take in your life.
There was no indication of any stacking at all.
As you get older you arent afraid pf ant retribution while asking. Ive always said to young ppl startjng out. Dont sit feeling you may sound stupid, youre not; please ask me
Turn right at Kaiser hospital, straighten out when you see Carlos's taco wagon. Continue to the Burger King and make a right there. Then line up your approach with the Popeyes chicken just past the end of the runway.
@@joelmacdonald6994 Exactly... the people that mind don't matter and people that matter, don't mind.
You’re a cool guy,willing to admit mistakes you did in your career is more than what most people would do.
From the Management of San Carlos Airport (SQL): "In early October, SERCO replaced its management team and hired new controllers for the San Carlos FCT. Since then, a new air traffic manager and three controllers have been hired and fully trained at SQL. Two additional air traffic controllers are currently being trained at SQL."
You are not answering the question. Was the controller fired or removed? The posts say he is still there.
Its obvious he has a very serious personality disorder and should not be in ATC.
@@ramjet4025 what question has been asked of me that I have not answered?
@@CristobalSanPedroyou didn't answer if this specific ATC/manager/whatever this person is has been removed from duty. Has this person been removed from duty?
@@stevensmith8666 You two sound exactly like the controller in this video. Who's question was he supposed to answer and why should he answer at all? He has no connection to the incident. If you use your head a little you could look it up yourselves if you're curious.
Let me help you out a little; only someone on Reddit has said that there was not any change in management, and that the snarky one in this video is the air traffic manager. There's no way to confirm or deny this, unless you contact the FAA or the airport.
For those with reading comprehension challenges, he DID answer. It clearly says SERCO replaced its management team. This particular controller was management. Not too difficult to use some deductive reasoning here.
Kelsey is correct, the more incompetent the controller the more arrogant and defensive they become. I have worked with many during my career as Controller and Air Traffic Manager!
It's like this in many other fields of work, also.
@@AndrewGrey22 Exactly!
I agree 100% with @citizenGreyAG. This is the way of American work culture. It may be of others as well, but I'm American. Arrogance is very unattractive, and does nothing to improve the overall situation.
Needed to hear this today. Thanks.
@@AndrewGrey22 I don't know if I'm an exception or competent because I'm not a very defensive person. If anyone says otherwise then you're wrong and an idiot! 😆
Jokes aside college definitely took away a lot of my arrogance. The best thing I learned in college was how dumb I was/am. Really gave me an ego check.
That controller was extremely unprofessional.
“Everyone knows where the that is that flies out of here”? This is what I hate about pilots and controllers that use reporting points that the locals know. It’s an airport. Airports attract people from other places. Kinda the point of airplanes. Controller should of asked ‘are you familiar with the hospital’ or ‘I’ll call your base’.
If you are not familiar with the landmarks, simply state that you are not familiar with the landmark, please call my base.
@@chrisstromberg6527yep, that would have prevented the argument. The controller had a valid point, he just went about it the wrong way.
I’ve flown into SQL a couple times. The first time I flew in, I didn’t know about the cement plant (what the controller started to call), and I couldn’t spot the “diamond-shaped waterway” (not in the video). I wasn’t aware of the hospital either. There is nothing about it in FAA publications. I must’ve been lucky, because they didn’t give me any shit, but seeing these recordings from them, I am very unimpressed.
@@AviationJeremy the cement plant is marked on the sectional, but i don't see the kaiser hospital. Either way, all one has to do is say "unfamiliar."
And still no reason for the controller to be an A$$hole.
"Extend downwind four miles" would do fine too.
Okay, I was curious and looked up both the airport and the hospital. The hospital is entirely unsuitable as a reference point as it is not discernible as a medical facility. It doesn't have a helipad or large red cross painted on its roof. How on earth is anyone supposed to guess that the bunch of low-rise building blocks amongst other low-rise commercial buildings is a hospital, if you're not familiar with it. The cement plant, which is actually stated on sectional chart is clearly visible on the other hand. So why go out of your way to make it harder?
When i am driving in traffic and i see someone get riled up about something very minor, the thought always crosses my mind;
"if this is how they react in this small situation, how will they react when someone does something far more egregious, will their head explode?"
This is the exact same question that runs through my mind regarding that controller?
You make a very good point. Than you.
I had something similar happen to me. I was on a highway with 3 lanes each direction in a smaller city here in the US. A truck came out of nowhere and got real close to my bumper and then finally got over. He may have even flashed his high beams like it was MY fault I was in his way (doing the speed limit which is more proper here vs. flow of traffic due to laws). I got upset and was ready to follow him when my wife simply said "he might have a gun. Please don't." I was like "oh crap, thank you" and backed down.
We have to remember to not let things get to us when operating machines that can kill us. Cars are not as deadly as airplanes in terms of ways to die, but they are still dangerous just the same.
@@paulstejskal Here in Australia the favorite thing to do when you do the wrong thing behind the wheel is to hurl abuse at the other person who was just minding their own business not harming anyone.
I got so many examples of this, i could go on all day, but here is one of my favorites;
I am driving the speed limit on a 2 lane road (4 lanes including the other way). But the outside lane has parked cars ahead. A speeding garbage truck comes up behind me and moves to the outside lane to pass despite the parked cars ahead. He comes parallel to me and starts trying to merge, expecting me to brake and let him in... I'm like, "not gonna happen buddy". He has to merge behind me, then he overtakes me on the other side in the turn lane hurling abuse at me. All i did was mind my own business driving my car at the speed limit.
What i think is the fundamental reason these wah wah babies throw tantrums, is that you failed to recognize the presence of a superior being and do what they want.
@@mystikmind2005 Haha. People don't do that in my state because we have really loose gun laws and the chances of the other person having a gun are really high. Not all states are like that, but we are seeing an increase of people pulling guns out in some states.
Very unprofessional controller, he was completely burying himself just as you said, wasting time on frequency about something that was no longer relevant which is a major safety concern. Thanks Kelsey, very interesting story about John McColgan! Rest in peace.
Geez.. reading earlier comments here it appears that controller was THE MANAGER of the tower.. Its bad enough when the controller behaves like this, but doubly so when its the tower manager..
@@lvsluggo007 Wow! I didn't see that in the comments, that's pretty shocking! if he wasn't removed entirely from his position I would hope he was at least demoted, that is no way for someone in a management position to be acting. Regardless of all of that, If he can't even handle one minor course/heading deviation without putting on horse blinders to everything else that is going on around him, then he is in the wrong business to begin with.
Yes absolutely it comes from a place of insecurity. I used to work at a grocery store and nobody is ruder than a customer who has found out that they are the ones who made a mistake and not the cashier. Rather than admit they made a mistake, they double down and get MADDER
"Sir, you fly the airplane I'll fly the tower." That'll go over well.
Tower, prepare to copy a number
Reminds me of an argument with a boat captain.
Turn to port immediately. No you turn. No you turn. No you turn. Sir, I'm a lighthouse!
I wonder what the takeoff speed is for the tower!
"Tower, cleared for takeoff runway 30"
Might be interesting at the airport close to where I live, it has TWO towers, one of which was decommissioned a few years back when the other was built. I can well imagine, "Tower cleared for take off on runway 29" "which tower?"
@@owensparks5013 Btw that never happened, its a sailor story
Kelsey - when I hear these ATC/pilot "dust-ups" it makes me wonder. Regardless of who started it, does the ATC really want to piss-off, embarrass and otherwise distract a pilot during a critical phase of flight (in the pattern) when sterile cockpit rules are in effect? Will they feel like a winner if the pissed-off and embarrassed pilot ends up punching a hole in the dirt (i.e. my house) or involved in a mid-air?
I live next to Santa Barbara Airport (SBA) and the center of my street is the exact extension of runway 07/25. I kind of frown on pissed-off pilots flying down my street. Know what I mean? 🤠
This reminds me of one time when I was at this (physically) bigger airport that I was unfamiliar with and when I had landed ground asked me to Taxi via like 3 different taxiways and cross a runway. This just broke my brain, I would normally have my iPad to write it down but it had overheated and so I was just doing it on memory. I knew the directions they wanted me to go, but I continued to screw up read back. At the time I was just getting more anxious because everyone was listening to me on frequency be an idiot, but I just took a second and decided to ask for progressive instructions. They weren't terribly busy and after that I kept a notebook with me.
Also I realize that ground references are easy but I always feel they are too specific. Like "Kaiser Hospital" vs "The medical complex", I hate flying in somewhere new and they are saying "Yeah cross Farmer Jim's Farm and then tear drop in over the water tower that Suzie and Jimmy made out with during prom" I get that most flights are operated by people who have been to this airport before and are aware but then these places should be indicated on some kind of map that can be looked up before.
:) Just my random rant about location names.
Fully agree. If the landmark isn't on the approach chart, ATC shouldn't use it as a reference. In this situation it would have been much better for the controller to have said something like 'extend downwind by 2 miles'. That way there is no room for confusion and no reliance on local knowledge.
Yup. It's like the old joke about giving directions to tourists driving through a small town. "Yup, you just drive a couple of miles that way, turn left at the hayfield, go a mile or so to where o'l man Simpson's barn used to be, then it's the next right after the cows. Not the brown ones, the black and white ones. Can't miss it."
Keep a pen and pencil ALWAYS in the plane and paper because an iPad is and CAN NOT be used for ANY navigation other than a assist. You should be using/carrying a AFD and have a copy of landing arpt out on your knee board. Electronic hand devices are not to be relied on.
@@murraystewartjwhich means……..I’ll miss it! Haha. Great example!
@@MasterCarguy44-pk2dqI’m new to procedural stuff. Are electronic devices not approved for official use? Or are you saying it’s best practice to have hard copies of approach plates, taxi charts, etc?
The controller is also getting confused about FAA regulation 91.123. this regulation covers both ATC clearances and following ATC instructions. In the case of a clearance, if the pilot does not understand, they are required to request clarification. As for being given an instruction, the regulation only requires that you follow the instruction, however, as this video points out, the readback was not in alignment with the instruction, so you could easily assume, there was no recognition of the particular instruction in the first place.
What Kelsey is referring to is controller guidance 5-5-2 , paragraph B, numbers three, and number four. In that guidance, the controller is responsible for verification of any instructional readback, and to advise the pilot of an incorrect readback or such readback missing components, which is exactly what happened here, so despite it all, the controller was not doing a very good job, his words now: flying the tower.
If someone asks "what do you want me to do", just tell them what you want them to do. The Tower has the advantage that they can roll their eyes with no one seeing, but there's no point in dragging things out.
that was a point where if I'd been the controller, I would have either said, "you can proceed with landing" or "I want you to add track miles, and I'll let you know when to turn in for landing."
but then, I'm not a hothead who just used an improper landmark that the pilot didn't understand.
"What do you want me to do?"
"Turn your base in 1 mile."
Situation resolved.
Seriously. If someone is saying that to you it means you stop what youre doing too and fix the problem as imo that phrase is like extending your arm for a truce handshake lol.
“Sequencing?”
“I’ll call your base”
I was in. pan pan weather situation near an airbase once - I simply reverted to simple language, signalling to the controller that I needed plain speaking - she replied with " what do you want to do", and my reply was "land at your airport right now" - simple short and sweet. No Problem.
I live in the flightpath of SQL (and that Kaiser is my hospital). The culture in that control tower has been bad for a long time and it's only been getting worse. As I understand it, the controllers here are employed by a subcontractor that staffs the towers at many smaller airports. The company is known to understaff their towers. The airport is also between three major commercial airports, the airspace is quite complex the airport has come up with their own semi-official approaches, procedures, and landmarks. Anyone who is not familiar with any of these will frustrate the overworked and unprofessional controllers. This is not the only incident of an argument with an instructor/examiner, and even one time the sole controller had to hold all clearances because they had to take a bathroom break with no one there to replace them.
SQL is unprofessional, overworked, understaffed, and the contracting company doesn't care.
Sounds like it’s not only hospitals that outsource labor. It’s very common for hospitals to dump their in-house Biomedical Engineering (also called Clinical Engineering) departments and techs to “save money”. This very often affects the patient’s margin of safety. Usually it’s a bean counting CFO wanting to impress the hospital CFO and Board of Directors. I live near Little Rock and am retired but understand that the only Arkansas hospital/medical center that still retains a viable in-house CE is the VA.
So basically put... this controller wasn't FAA approved to begin with.
@@allen480 It's capitalism. Everyone does it and our civilization is falling apart.
@@thewhitefalcon8539 How many thriving socialist countries are there ?
@@stevecooper2873 We're talking about capitalism, not socialism. Try to keep up with the conversation.
I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but this contract tower was severely short-staffed, with only two controllers to work all shifts seven days a week. When the airport reopened after pavement rehabilitation in the last couple of months, a bunch of new (experienced) controllers had been added to the staff, and I've heard that the rude controller is no longer working traffic there. Whether he is still there in a managerial capacity, I haven't heard. In any case, the quality of service is hugely improved!
Wow.. a manager.
@@DocHellfish the peter principle hard at work! Promoted to the point of incompetence. Dx
@@Night_Hawk_475 In case it wasn't clear, I don't actually know whether the grouchy guy is still there in any capacity.
@@richardpalm3202 He is not.
@@rickstein8081Thanks for the info.
Sadly... there are multiple videos of this guy on VAS Aviation.
I knew I'd seen an analysis of it before but couldn't remember where. That'll be it.
I live in the Bay area, and San Carlos has a lot of campuses spread around, mostly for tech companies, with Kaiser Hospital being mixed in, and if you haven't flown into San Carlos before, you would be quite lost. The behavior seems extra odd, because that airport hosts a lot of pilot schools. Unfortunately, this type of attitude is becoming a lot more common, not referring to ATC, but in general, not sure why, maybe it is Dunning-Kruger, narcissism, or a quirk of the area, but I left the Tech industry because I couldn't deal with people that had maybe a year in the industry that thought they knew everything possible and were treating me as if I was a trainee, when I had been in the industry since 1997.
My brother was an ATC and he spoke of it like it was a calling - a specialized job for a unique group of people. This guy sounds like he has no respect for the job or the industry, least of all for the responsibility of keeping us safe. Thanks for your video, Kelsey: someone out there is looking out for us in the skies.
Yes it is a calling, this guy is very lucky and behave like a douchebag
"Story time"
Im a controller as well. I once had an allegiant airline pilot (on taxi) ask me when "how long will it be once i get to the hold short before i can take off?" I informed them that i had only 2 aircraft inbound and that it should only be about 5 minutes. ( 1 vfr 1 ifr ) proceeded to watch the 2 aircraft invound as i coordinate for a release for him. I continue to keep thebpilot up to date by giving him position of the aircraft hes after and that i have his release. In the mean time approach throws an airliner AT46 directly behind the vfr with only 3 miles to spare and speed exceeding double the preceding aircraft. I tell allegiant that he will now have to go after the air carrier due to spacing conflict that was just introduced. Pilot gets upset bc im informing him of a change in sequence. When his original interval landed the air carrier was was at 2 miles. While talking to other aircraft allegiant (A319) jumps down my throat saying " i could have gone between those 2 aircraft! im low fuel and need to get airborne" (he just left the gate less than 10 minutes ago) i explain that his sequence was set until approach failed to protect for his release time. He didnt like that either and begins to tell me yet again that he could have made the push. Theres no way an A319 is going to beat an AT46, from a static position at a 110 degree angle from the runway. I had to tell this particular pilot (which is why im telling this story and how it kinda relates) " unfortunately sir, im in charge of determining departure and landing clearances, and not you"
Other pilots behind him began to berate him saying things like, "maybe next time you can fill up your aircraft appropriately / why dont you wait your turn like everyone else, cant you hear the controller is trying to help you"
Ive never before or ever again had to speak like this with pilots backing me up
I guess he will always be the guy who flies the tower.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt!
Good point.
Great comment 😅
Confucius quotation - misquoted as usual.
@@messrsandersonco5985 There is a biblical proverb that expresses a similar idea, namely Proverbs 17:28. the King James Version, "Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding."
@@messrsandersonco5985no that's a Bible verse. It's a loose translation of the Hebrew.
“You fly the airplane, I’ll fly the tower.”
How the heck do you fly a tower, *sir*
The other issue with escalating like this is that it would make anyone reluctant to re-engage. If the pilot had another concern, or change of plan, or needed clarification, it would be really difficult to push the button and talk to that twit again. So communication degrades dangerously, and there's nothing else between a pilot and ATC except communication.
Like a failure of CRM, but extended outside the cockpit...
Very good point!
This is very much a safety issue. The controller needs to be removed and at a minimum retrained and put on probation.
@@lanceav8r I agree ☝️
This controller sounds like someone you could just keep repeatedly hitting with "Unable, non standard phraseology" a few times, and you would get to hear what hardcore mic clipping sounds like.
As a bonus, that makes it easier to find the tower. Just look for the steam coming from the controller's ears.
That controller's combative nature is doing nothing but inviting those responses. If he can't handle something that simple in a professional manor, he's going to put lives on the line if there's an emergency.
I didn't pass my check ride for my commercial helicopter the first time. When the examiner asked me to perform a running landing, I did the exact same thing I did on my private exam and let the helicopter touch down then slid on its skids for about 20 feet on a grass portion of the airport. The examiner was looking for the commercial pilot standard of safely expediting a maneuver so that you are not taking extra time and costing your imaginary customer more money than necessary. I had a few practices with my instructor to make sure I could do a running landing in about a foot of slide, and then took the exam again and passed. 👍
Embarrasing yourself on social level in ordinary daily life circumstances may be one thing, but this one is definitelly terrible way to throw proffessionalism outta the window.
And everyone hearing it knows he’s finished. 😂
ב''ה, Oppositional Defiant Disorder is a medical condition and protected class California relies on pretty heavily.
Respect for your honesty , regarding your failed cx ride. Most of us , who experienced this trauma , never talked about it afterwards. Cheers from a French 748F freight dog !
I dont mind grumpy people but I cant stand people that are both gatekeepers and try to make it impossible to get things done. The pilot has to work with the ATC to get on the ground but the ATC is setting up obstacles to them doing it. He wants an argument but the pilot has to still go through him to acheive the goal. I meet far too many people that do that.
John McColgan was a very thorough DPE. He may have been the greatest instructor and DPE but if a private pilot like JFK Jr goes out and gets into IMC without the training, that is not on the instructor, it is completely on the untrained private pilot. For years and years after the JFK Jr accident, reporters, writers, journalists, and conspiracy people would show up at John's personal residence demanding he talk to them. He was hounded for years even after giving many statements, it was never good enough for some folks. He was a little grumpy, but he was fair and thorough with practical exams. He never wanted the infamy from the accident. RIP Mr. McColgan.
Kels ....glad you got over you flight test with John. He fell asleep during mine. 😂
If this controller kept their job, at minimum, they should’ve had some retraining, in proper protocols, emotional deescalation tactics training, and closely monitored, for 6-12 months after this incident. This controller was rude and lacked basic professionalism. You never know who you’re talking to, and what kind of power they hold. If this controller had simply treated everyone with dignity and respect, this wouldn’t have been a thing, at all. Being nice and respectful is free!
The tower is a pro, snowflake. U and that pilot need a safe space?
Apparently, so far they have kept their job. See comment by @wenghiskhan3084 who owns the flight school.
When the examiner asked the controller to repeat, maybe that was a chance for the controller to quickly rethink and rephrase. But I guess that hint (if it was) was completely ignored and the controller just keeps digging the hole deeper.
Former USAF controller here...
Someone stick a fork in that controller, he's DONE! Prolly a little crispy now actually.
I'm a student pilot at the San Carlos Flight Center (they own the Bayflight callsign), and this controller got.......... fired!!!!
It took them a while to do this but it happened around October after the airport reopened due to runway renovations. They hired 3 or 4 new ones and they are working there now. Happy ending!!!
That's excellent news! First Rule of Life: "What goes around, comes around."
Good to know, the skies are that much safer.
This comment should be higher ahahahah glad to know and not surprised...
Guess he's not flying the tower now.
@@PlasteredDragon: He landed his termination, I suppose.
This is the best example of ATC behavior of this low level I have ever heard. A bad attitude as an ATC creates a pink slip. It always has and it always will, because everybody is listening. Excellent show Kelsey. Keep the blue side up.
The entire San Carlos Airport needs to be shut down. The controller is a manager and the airport management above them are just as toxic and irresponsible. Numerous complaints have been made and FAA has done nothing. The state should step in and pull their business license before someone gets killed by this incompetence all the way up in that airport.
😮 I sure hope that controller was fired, these aircraft flying out of San Carlos and into San Carlos fly over my house numerous times a day. That controller was totally out of line and scary for me. thanks Kelsey you’re so humble and you do such a good job I always learn from you❤
Controller is the manager at that tower. He’s still the manager there, nothing happened.
I wonder if McColgan would've been more lenient on your check ride if it was before JFK's accident. (I'm assuming you flew with him after, you don't look old enough to have been flying that long, but I could be wrong.) I imagine having a former student crash, especially a president's son, wasn't easy on him.
I’m not a pilot, but I find ATC and pilot communication very fascinating.
Love it. If you're good at your job, You don't have to tell anyone. Same goes for if you're bad.
Many years ago, 59, to be exact, I was on my solo cross country in a Hughs 269 and was trying to land at Long Beach Airport. Because of the smoggy conditions, I was told I would have to get in the pattern but as a student pilot I did not feel comfortable with that, and I asked permission to fly through the control zone and was told, because of the weather and how busy they were, I would have to fly around the control zone, and was given instructions. After some time passed by, Long Beach ATC came on the air and said, "all aircraft, hold your position, we have an unidentified helicopter in the control zone", after a brief pause, came back and asked, "helicopter 875 foxtrot is that you?" At which time I responded, "yes" and he responded, " why, you ding-a-ling," at which time I apologized and told him I was a student pilot on my solo cross country and needed his help, not his sarcasm. He then apologized and gave me the help I needed. I had so many issues and problems that day, I never flew again. I'm probably the only pilot that was ever called, a ding-a-ling. Doesn't do much for a guy's ego.
So sorry! That was so unfortunate. It says more about him than you. You didn't deserve that.
That sucks.
Some people have never been punched in the face, and it shows.
I'm sure the tower would handle u easily with a punch in the face tough guy trevor
@@Peter-w4s1eare you the controller then, softlad?
When I’m landing I want to focus on landing, not focusing on debating a controller! So glad our controllers at my airport are the best, opposite to that
That controller should be fired. That was a terrible display of unprofessional and unsafe behavior.
It's "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate." Notice "Debate" is not on the list.
Good one! 👍👍👍
I think if I had been that examiner, somebody, maybe me, maybe somebody I knew with more authority than me, would be in the tower later that same day with a chart of waypoints around that airport asking him to show me which waypoint was designated Kaiser Hospital. because I'm pretty confident that it is an informal landmark, and not an official waypoint.
but on an aside, there are two kinds of people with authority there are the ones who open with "do you know how I am?" and the ones who open with a polite suggestion. the ones who open with a polite suggestion are the ones you never want to force to say who they are, because they are usually the ones at the very top of the food chain; and if they have to tell you who they are, you have done screwed up by the numbers.
How or Who?
@@mickieswendsen1302 that would be who i am.
Good morning from Chicago Kelsey. I hope you had a great Thanksgiving weekend, BROTHER!👍
KEEP THE BLUE SIDE UP 🛩🫡
Kennedy Steve is the only exception to the “let nobody know your name” rule
As ATC (ret) I just needed to look into this and the info I found sounded like a controller I worked with at a Tower/TRACON a bit further south. It wasn't that person. But, SQL tower is not an FAA facility but a contract tower with the controllers hired by a private company. They're usually retired controllers, or maybe ex-miltiary but I've been out for too long to make an accurate call on that. The contract facilities follow the same rules as an FAA installation and they pretty much govern themselves but are, or were, usually associated with a nearby FAA ATC facility that did periodic checks for compliance. A problem would need to go to the company doing the hiring, probably Serco, or to the FAA facility manager who does the compliance checks.
I had a similar incident a few years ago. Upon a landing done by my first officer while very early in the landing roll at relatively high speed, tower controller gave us an unusual taxi instruction. I then asked to repeat that unfamiliar taxi instruction. The controller stated arrogantly (I didn’t know this was so complicated). First thing I did after disembarking the passengers and putting the airplane to bed was to write a SMS (Safety Management System) report. This way, everything is recorded to prevent any further incidents that could be potentially serious. I later met that controller as a follow up to my report and had an interesting discussion about human factors in a tense environment when captains must take control after landing. Lesson learned for everyone. Safe flights to all.
Did the guy pass the check ride?
The ATC sounds like the old man in the middle of a cornfield in Iowa where a stranger asks for directions, "It's simple. Just head down the road a piece, then turn right where the old Wilson barn used to be. After it burned down, instead of corn, they planted it in soy. Don't worry, you'll find it."
Aside: I am an amateur radio operator. I have studied radio for 30 years, and while we have designated license grades, I have gone through all of them (Novice through Amateur Extra), and am a volunteer examiner. When I put on that badge, and administer that test, I am a representative of the FCC. I have to sign my name, give my call sign on the paperwork, and certify that the examinee has passed the qualification test. (That is the FCC CYA: if the examinee F*s up, they can find me very quickly.)
to give proper backwoods directions, you always have to include an instruction to turn a mile before an obscure landmark.
Hey how are you doing?
I have been trying to get into amateur radio for a while now but I just can't get it. I read a few books but they were from the library and really old. Would you mind helping me out a bit? Is there an easy to read book that I cam read or even a yt video I can watch? I have heard that kids get licensed so I should be able to as well. I thank you in advance.
Go on your rig and listen for lots of time first...
I used to do service calls while working for International Harvester. Frequently, I would get instructions to the location,who would say to drive to where the church used to be, then turn where something else used to be. Pre gps directions.
@@robertheinkel6225 similarly, no location is referenced by the current owner. It's always the old johnson place, even if Mr smith has been there for 50 years.
5:07 Kelsey hits the nail on the head here. One of the biggest truths I've learned in my career and life in general is this.
I’m very impressed with your humility Kelsey. Not very many people in your position would admit to failing.
I truly enjoy your podcasts, keep them coming 😎
This video just popped up in my recommended, and I know VERY little about airplanes (I've never even been next to one). However, even I know that this ATC was highly unprofessional.
We need a “karen” type name for these kind of unprofessionals we all run into on their bad days.
Airen
@@MobiusMelancholia 10/10
We already do. Kevins.
@@jeromethiel4323 No. A Karen/Kevin is a patron or random civilian trying to enforce their nonexistent authority on others.
@@MobiusMelancholia Nice Airen or Errin
I would imagine that the examiners have more hours than I do and since they are still alive and have this responsibility, it would be a great idea to listen to them.
That sounds like the voice and attitude of someone who has never been held to account for their attitude/actions in their life, and is used to being protected from any consequences, I'd be willing to bet that nothing has been done to him.
based on other comments, nothing has happened to him and he is the managing atc there.
@@heinzerbrew yeah that doesn't surprise me, it seems to be a common thing in lots of organisations, there's always someone who seems to be untouchable and they know it.
This is a contract tower, not an FAA tower, for whatever that’s worth. I have worked with a handful of a-hole controllers and it’s always embarrassing for me and frankly the profession. There’s never a reason to be a jerk, and if the pilot is flustered or not doing things right, this behavior only makes things worse. Plus, you (the controller) might be in the wrong and it’s that much more embarrassing.
I actually heard a controller in the Air Force one time say this:
Controller: “Fox14 go around.”
Fox14: “You know it costs the taxpayer $2400 every time I circuit in the pattern?”
Controller: “Roger Fox14. Expect to spend another $4800 and we’ll get you in.”
On my private pilot check ride, I was told to land on the numbers, full flaps (single engine C-150) this was around '82. So I'm driving in, I'm at 20 degrees of flaps and I'm waiting to roll to forty and the examiner tells me 'you're going to land long, you need to roll full flaps.' I had to tell him IO was fine and even though he told me two more times I was going to land long, I ignored him, rolled them when I thought I needed to, and I landed ON the numbers, like he'd told me to.
He looked at me as we were rolling out and said 'Guess you know this airplane better than I do!'
NOTE: He used to OWN that very airplane!
Yes, I passed :-)
When I was doing my training around 1982-83 out of an AFB flight club, one of the trainers (not my regular) took me to the local major airport after a few landings at our practice field. He showed me the visual marker tricks to hit the same spot every time (using the engine cowling as a reference.) It worked and made my landings much better.
My next ride with my regular trainer had him impressed with the precision of my touchdown points. So upon our return to the base, I decided to shoot an approach to touch down on the numbers. My trainer was getting more and more nervous as we descended...at the last moment I held my flare until after the numbers and touched down.
Why was he nervous? Because there was an aircraft arresting cable strung across the runway, the mark I aimed for would have had our Cessna 152 crossing that cable, which would not end well. (The nose gear would get trapped in it.) I literally floated just over it before flaring and touching down.
I did get some concern from him at debrief, but he still passed the landing. I did find out from our Deputy Maintenance Commander (I was active duty at that base) who saw the whole thing from his truck on the ground that I cleared that cable by about 3 feet. The tower also saw it, luckily I didn't get the "Stand by for a number to copy" call, but when I met one of the controllers a few weeks later, he did bring it up to me. They had though for sure I was gonna grab that cable and shut the base down. Several of the fighter pilots also found out about it and ragged me for months.
Been there, done that, but really, the pilot should have asked for clarification: "extending downwind, unfamiliar, please call my base turn", but I agree, the controller's attitude is not conducive to safety.
This might be the first testy ATC controller he meets, but I guarantee you, it won't be his last!
Exactly correct. "Unfamiliar, please call my turn to base," would have added some clarity to the situation. But, the controller also missed a cue from the pilot when he asked, "Sequencing?" I took that to mean that the pilot was asking for a quick explanation as to why he was being asked to extend, and was trying to maintain situational awareness. A better response by the controller to that question would have been, "IFR traffic on short final, you're number 3 behind the Cherokee turning base right now," or whatever the circumstances were. That way, the pilot knows where he is in the lineup and both he and the controller are looking in the same general area and are trying to achieve the same goal: safe separation of traffic. Another issue here is the US standard of issuing landing clearances in advance. The controller really told the pilot two different things: 1) extend your base [presumably because it's not safe for you to land yet]; and 2) you're cleared to land. Well, which is it? The pilot's next question essentially asked exactly that: what do you want me to do? The use of this type of landing clearance is, in my opinion, unsafe and should be prohibited.
The only good thing in this scenario is, if the controller really is a contractor, he doesn't have the same employment rules and protections that FAA controllers have as civil servants and the contracting company can (and should) boot his ass out the door ASAP. After that, I hope that the DE was able to get the FAA to pursue an enforcement action against the idiot's controller ticket.
I always ask for ATC to call my base if there is any doubt
It sounds like the person in this incident was a student pilot and may not have realised that. The controller's attitude is not merely obscene, it could potentially be dangerous. What if this was a pilot in a fuel emergency who needed to get down in a hurry and didn't know where Kaiser Hospital was? If he acted like that in that scenario the end result may have been a smoking crater a mile short of the runway.
I saw this months ago and was so frustrated at the time! Good to see something came from it.
Another retired controller here. And even longer as a pilot. As such, I have dealt with these situations from both sides of the microphone. I have had controllers try to tell me how to fly my airplane and I have had pilots who wanted to do ATC by committee. Neither situation works. A clear understanding of roles and responsibilities in needed for the system to work properly. Unfortunately, the aviation community attracts an inordinate number of people with large, overly sensitive egos. When two inflated egos collide, crazy things happen. As individuals, it is each of our responsibilities to evaluate every situation we are in and seek the most effective route to a desirable solution. If your ego prevents you from doing that, maybe you should stick to building dog houses or some other such non-consequential occupation.
My first flight into Medford (Class D) I was on long straight in final and given an altitude and to “report abeam the Manor”. I read back the clearance and without releasing the PTT added “I’m unfamiliar with the airport and Manir, is that the big building on top of the hill?”
Controller was great. Verified that and said thanks for asking. He also asked if I’d like progressive taxi on the ground and I told him I had the airport chart but accepted the offer and thanked him.
Teamwork to make things work smoothly.
Thankfully we don't have these types of controllers at least currently in our area. Informing the tower when there is a solo or check ride in progress also helps ATC be clearer on their instructions and make the experience better for everyone.
If it was an faa examiner then they would want to see the pilot manage without ATC softballing them, but if the "examiner" was really just a flight instructer then you are probably right.
@@heinzerbrew Not softballing, just being clear and professional. They do things like extending downwinds and the like, but it helps everyone in our busy patterns if there is no drama.
Why didn't the Controller just give the pilot vectors to fly. A landmark on the ground is not my idea of a definitive flight path for a landing.
Yeah, he could have said extend downwind half a mile or something also
That is not how it's done by a tower controller. You learn in your basic training how to fly a traffic pattern, for this very reason. The pilot could have requested that the tower call his base turn. Controller was out of line with his attitude, probably overworked and stressed out working an airport with lots of student activity.
Most piston powered planes like Cesnas fly VFR not IFR the ATC could of gave them mile markers instead
Interesting how the controller puts the blame on the pilot for not understanding the instruction. Don't controllers know that the prime thing a pilot does is aviate? Communicate is secondary. The pilot did not read back the complete "hospital" instruction, so it's the controller's responsibility to re-issue it, and to get the pilot to fully understand it, not the other way around.
It’s aviate, navigate, communicate.
@@paulstelian97 Exactly my point ... thanks!
Even as a viewer my heart sank when I heard the dead-serious voice of the examiner. The controller must really have anger issues or wanting to be fired. In either way he is a safety hazard. He was chatting with pauses as if he was in a bar, not a radio frequency.
I fly out of a smaller class D with a flight school on the field...these controllers are some of the most patient I ve communicated with. I thank them every chance i get.
2023 ATC bidder here, most of the controllers who have heard of this tower know about the "subpar" controllers there, as it's a contracted tower, and not directly under the FAAs gavel, according to the FAA. San Carlos is kind of known at this point as that "worst case scenario " of ATC. To all pilots, crew, and controllers, I have no experience, so take my word with a grain of salt. I hope things get better there before a more major incident occurs.
Ahh THAT explains it.. A contracted tower. I'd heard other stories about this tower.. When my family lived in San Francisco, around 1957, my father owned a 1948 Luscombe and kept it at San Carlos. I was 7 years old at the time, and often rode with my father in the right seat. There was no control tower or any ATC. The plane was barebones, a 65hp engine that had to be hand cranked to start, as there was no electrical system. Right after buying the place (for $1,300), he took his flight test to get his license in the plane, and had to jury-rig a borrowed radio/battery to allow him to pass the vor portion of the test at the time. I marveled at the constant stream of DC7s/Constellations overhead, going into SFO. Now I guess it sits under a 2500ft tier of the SFO class bravo.
@lvsluggo007 As a Contract Tower controller at one of the top 100 busiest facilities in the US, I assure you we are not all as bad as the controller in this video.
This is absolutely correct, they're a contract outfit: Traffic Management Inc. Its right on their website. In fact they're hiring for San Carlos. I think I would pass on that job myself. But they've received no pressure on Twitter or FB or IG so they have somehow managed to dodge the storm but being a private company they have bids and clients to consider so I don't know that I would want that guy working for me. Potentially bad press.
Ideal situation: you fail, you accept it, you pay a price, and you get better. Worst case: you cop an attitude, blame the expert for being too tough, and eventually lose your own life and perhaps that of others. Attitude is everything in life.
💯
@@toddsmith8608 Gracias!
I like that the DE actually said "let's do the "controller" training off the frequency". Strongly says there will be something to answer to coming up. 🤔
Another excellent, fantastic, engrossing, captivating, spellbinding video. I was hooked the whole time! Great job, Kelsey!
I note the DE said "let's keep the *controller* training off the radio" - assumed that was an early hint to the ATC guy to take it down a notch - which he didn't.
Not saying the controller wasn’t way out of line but if the pilot was unfamiliar with the location of the hospital, he should have spoken right up and said “unfamiliar with that landmark, please call my base”.