HOW Did They Get It So WRONG?! The Cautionary Tale of Aerosucre Flight 157
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
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Like in a nightmare, so many things went wrong on Aerosucre Flight 157. But Why? And why is it that despite having to follow very similar standards, some airlines seem to get themselves into trouble more often than others?
In today's video, we review how a flight involving a Boeing 727-JO operated by Aerosucre went so badly wrong, it can be held up as a perfect example of why the aviation industry's many regulations are so important to follow.
#mentourpilot #aviation #planes #airplanes
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Below you will find the links to videos and sources used in this episode:
Final report:
www.aerocivil....
Air Safety Network - Aerosucre S.A.
asn.flightsafe...
RZJets - Aerosucre Fleet
rzjets.net/ope...
B727 Quick Reference Handbook
www.scribd.com...
B727 Flight Crew Operations Manual
www.scribd.com...
B727 Boeing Release
www.boeing.com...
Aircraft models:
FlyJSim B727
www.flyjsim.co...
FLyJSim
www.flyjsim.co...
B-rolls:
/ @qantas
/ @airnz
/ @etihad
• Aerosucre compilation ...
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@MentourPilot at approx the 4:15 mark, "sundries" is pronounced "sun-dreez". Hope this is helpful, my friend!" Great work, as always!
Please do DHL 611 and BTC 2937 mid air collision 💥
Aero "not so" sweet...
I like those transition to sponsor better than those "fake interruption" thing you did for a fair few previous videos
But seriously, no redundancy for losing entire parts of the plane? What if a whole wing just pops off? No backup for that either? Haha!
You can account for every possible scenario, but the user-sorry, the pilot-will always find a way to make something fail… or, you know, the entire plane, for that matter.
You know an airline is problematic if they've never flown a passenger flight but have at least been responsible for the death of 20 passengers.
How much did they pay in bribes in order to continue operating after all of this, I wonder
They've had 20 more passenger fatalities than Ryanair, the third largest airline by passengers flown....
@caimin15221522 the fact that ryanair by some miracle still haven't had a single casualy is crazy to me
They literally are the most economic airline, cutting costs on everything.
The fact that airfrance had infinitely more crushes and incidents then ryanair is crazy
@@olm8829 In a country where they are the only lifeline for many businesses and communities? Zero.
@@shawnpitman876
Another commenter disagrees, claiming bribery from the company was very common and well known.
ah yes aerosucre. he could do a 3 hour special on them.
Three part series....
fr
I love ur pfp
At 32:40 "Fly it gently amigo!" lol
Sweet.
Given their history of skimming the ground on takeoff, they should have had a "hit tree on takeoff" checklist with memory items :/
"We missed the trees!" "Should we go around?"
@@ronjones-6977 😂🤣😅
2:23 seconds! OMG - no wonder they were having trouble concentrating and they didn’t realize the damage. Yes, mistakes were made, and they should have been calm, but it was too much in too little time, because they had less than 2:23 when everything happened. The planners of the airport also have take a lot of the blame!! Those poor guys.
I was really able to follow what was going on - you are amazing. Thank you much :) 🌷🌱
Typical Aerosucre operations always involve a minimum of a full-length runway takeoff, a fence strike, and an engine flameout.
And don't forget taking off above max weight.
You forgot "grossly overloaded plane."
Let's be fair; their checklists only require ONE of these conditions.
Don’t forget the friends and family sitting on the floor in cargo.
Do not forget the unsecured load shifting the center of gravity mid take off, it is described in the Aerosuce pilot manual A 38.
In engineering we call this sort of thing 'tolerance stacking' when all the margins you allow yourself add up in one direction to an unexpected dimension.
At Reed Boardall Cold Storage, they call it "efficiency." Bent uprights, cracked uprights, holes in the warehouse floor, only using half as many bolts as the design specified, nuts and bolts and washers and whole light fittings falling out of structures, using one rack to push another because the motors have failed, missing "kick bars" so if a rack hits something or someone it'll just keep going, a little plastic shed over the battery chargers where the rain comes through the building roof and was falling onto them, engineers having to grind off the bolts where someone smashed a bollard, sending showers of sparks across giant lead-acid batteries being charged, fork lifts going full speed with pallets ten metres up in the air: "efficiency."
For those who don't know: Another term to use in some cases is "tolerance build up". This is when a design depends on a list of numbers each with its typical value and a tolerance for how far out from the typical it can be. It can happen that you get the unlucky combination which takes the design to its limit away from the typical total. In something like and aircraft you may have your flap angle setting of 30 degrees really only giving you 29.7 degrees, the engine thrust may be 2% below what you have set it for, the day may be hot making for thinner air and the overload may be a little more than you think it is. The result can be that a takeoff run that should be a bit shorter than the runway is effectively bit longer because all the numbers are on the bad side.
Aero Swisscheese.
I remember a story a professor told us about 2 levels of engineering bosses who each doubled the AC requirement they were given to build in margin, after thr initial engineer doubled it to begin with. The result was a very cold office with 8x the necessary air conditioning 😂. So it goes both ways.
@@AustralianOpalRocks that's only a problem if they didn't consider the margins of the minimum setting of the aircon. An aircon system operating at 12% maintaining a comfortable temperature works fine. Might be a bit expensive, but you'll be glad of the extra capacity if you get hit by a heat wave.
If it can't be set below 30% without turning it off entirely though...
As a Colombian, Aerosucre flights are immediately recognisable by their insanely loud overworked engines
1960's and '70's engines are always very loud. Even when new. No bypass to speak of.
Takeoff thrust is always maximum thrust with Aerosucre. Hey at least they won't ever have those input errors! They'll confidently overrun the runway with the engines trying their best.
Whenever all the windows in Bogotá get rattled, you know an Aerosucre 727 or Jurassic 737 has taken off!
Typical JT8D engines 🫠
Boeing always put roaring, extremely loud engines on their planes. Airbus has started to reverse that, the RollsRoyce Trent series on their widebodies and the CFM Leap engines that power their A320family are very much an improvement.
Anyone on aviation youtube has seen a infamous Aerosucre takeoff clip that barely clears the perimeter fence.. and this is how it inevitably ends. Safety rules are written in blood
Aerosucre SOP not only checks runway length but perimeter fence height.
Safety rules are for crybabies :D
Nah they just didn't follow didn't follow SOP which dictates 5m OVER the fence is fine not 5m BEHIND the fence
@@Dilley_G45 Every take off:
Pilot: Higher! Higer! We need to get higer!
Copilot: I can't sniff faster!
That's why...
Anyone on aviation TH-cam has seen dozens of clips of them skimming the perimeter fence.
During safety training at my company it was emphasized several times that one of the key phrases to look for is “I’ve done it that way a thousand times”. This is a major flag that you are letting safety standards slip.
It was identified by a group of ex-firefighters in Texas that had formed their own safety training company. They had gone through 30 years of accident investigations.
When they focused on survivor interviews, they ran across this phrase over and over. In some cases, the survivors stated that their trainer had told them the safe way to do something, but then told them they could save time or effort by doing it in an unsafe manner and that they had “done it that way a thousand times”.
In the case of this airline, it is obvious that this was a common phrase. If you ever hear someone use that phrase or think it to yourself, it is time to stop and reassess your behavior.
Another thing they taught us is that humans are very bad at risk assessment. There is a simple formula and table based on game theory that does this very well though.
If there had been a company officer tasked with risk assessment, this accident might not have ever happened. That is, if they could be troubled to actually perform that risk assessment.
Did the safety training company publish any of their findings? Or is there at least a summary you can point me to? I'd love to read more about them.
@@PurelyCoincidental The training was in 2005, and I retired in 2018, so I don’t even remember their name, but the training they gave us has become industry standard in the oilfields.
Nowadays, any OSHA 300 incident is enough to get contractors blacklisted. Much of this is driven by an incident on the Olympia platform in the North Sea. After Piper Alpha blew up, there was a big push for safety, but it was largely paid lip service in the day to day. When the gas turbine stack was blown up on Olympia, the English government put teeth in it.
If you want to do business with the English oil industry, you have to comply with their safety standards throughout your company. This means you have to verify your vendors are also in compliance, which means their vendors have to be in compliance, which means everyone has to be in compliance to do any business in the industry.
Turns out it saves money also, since the hidden costs of an incident far outweigh the cost of prevention. Makes it ironic that British Petroleum was responsible for Deepwater Horizon.
I do have a vague memory of “Charlie Talks”. Charlie Morecraft was an incident survivor who had told investigators he had “done it that way a thousand times”. He barely survived his accident and went on to give safety lectures. You can find reference to him on the net. Perhaps this can point you in the right direction to look.
Thank You.
I have stories about bad risk management. That is both bad safety risk management and bad financial risk management. And there being a general toxic work environment. These things do tend to go together. These are stories of a figurative thousand paper cuts with no major drama. Just lost contract bid and high employee turn over. I will not bore people with the stories.
Please don't make the mistakes I made. If you find yourself in these types of situations get out of the situation.
Makes sense. When driving, I often think to myself that a thousand to one odds against an accident are actually pretty risky odds. Think of say how many left turns you rack up driving and you get to that thousand pretty quickly.
@@lewismartinez5130 Depending on where you drive, the odds of an accident while driving are probably better than 1000:1.
In the US, the statistics on miles driven per accident are published by the government. Local traffic statistics are usually also published.
By dividing the miles driven per accident by the number of automobiles per day on your usual route, you can get the number of days between accidents for that route. There are also statistics calculating the higher probability of accidents at intersections, so the number of intersections must be taken into account. Third, there are statistics on how much more likely an accident is for every 5 miles an hour over the speed limit people are traveling.
BTW, traveling at 10 mph over the speed limit for 45 miles only saves you 4.5 minutes, but significantly increases the severity of an accident. Not worth it, but if everyone else is doing it, it becomes dangerous to drive the speed limit (plus, around here, a road rager is likely to pop a cap in your ass!).
Before I retired, most of us drove a 45 mile length of highway with 18 intersections, an average speed of 65 in a 55 mph zone, about 3 times the traffic than the highway was designed for, an average of one accident every 4 days, and 1 fatal accident every 6 months. It had a reputation of being a very dangerous highway.
We were fortunate enough to have one employee who was a math wiz, and another who was a semi-professional gambler. With their assistance and about 2 weeks of arguing we were able to calculate a reasonable probability of one of us getting into an accident. (Don’t ask for the formula, I don’t remember, and it covered most of a page in an Excel file). Since risk assessment is probability x severity, we were then able to do an assessment.
When we did the risk assessment, it was right on the edge of being unacceptable. After analyzing methods of reducing the risk, we noticed that most accidents happened because all of the oilfields (about 16 different companies) changed shift around the same time, causing three separate “surges” of heavy traffic that each lasted around 2 hours. By changing to non-standard shift rotations we reduced the risk greatly.
A necessary but often neglected step after any assessment is to make sure your mitigation strategy worked and didn’t create other problems.
We had changed the rotations to 2 AM, 10 AM, and 6 PM. During the followup interviews, we found that other oilfield workers on 12 hour shifts rotated around 6 PM, and there had been one near miss with a drunk since the bars closed at 2 AM. We rolled our rotations forward 1 hour and on the next followup there were no complaints.
Of course the problem with probabilities is they aren’t set in stone. Just because the probabilities say 1 in a million doesn’t mean it wont happen in the first 100. One month after the assessment was finalized, one of our employees was killed at 3:30 AM in a head on collision. The other guy was working two jobs, had just finished an (ill advised) double shift, and fell asleep behind the wheel despite being stuffed to the gills on methamphetamine. Life is what happens when you are making other plans. His company was blacklisted for an inadequate drug testing program. Things like this is why the safety margins spoken of in the video are so important.
We had already done another risk assessment that caused us to implement a policy that no employee could work more than 14 hours in every 24, and no more than 6 days a week.
After this accident we expanded that instruction to state that this included if they were working multiple jobs, including jobs for other employers. Violation of this rule without approval from your supervisor (which you weren’t going to get, since they could go to jail if something happened) was grounds for immediate termination.
Less than a year later, that policy had been adopted by most of the oil companies and their vendors and contractors in this area. I imagine it has spread to other oil producing regions since.
In the old days (late 80’s), it was common that nobody cared if you worked triple shifts. The safety statistics reflect this.
After an accountant sat down and (cold bloodedly) calculated the hidden costs of a lost time accident, compared to the time and money it took to do more than pay lip service to safety, the executives sat up and took notice. The safety culture went from “just get the job done” to “if you don’t take all necessary precautions we will fire you” in just a few years. It is a pain in the butt, and requires a whole separate department, but I retired alive, with all my fingers and toes, and only age related health problems. Worth it.
It is pretty plain that this particular airline hasn’t been exposed to any of this type of info. Especially the hidden cost assessment.
Pedro Duarte was the Flight Engineer,he flew for Avianca around 20 and Aces, he was a flight simulator instructor for flight engineers at some point. I flew with him when I was a 727 f/o for one of those airlines. Nice guy and very knowledgeable. Aerosucre’s owner has allegedly bribed Colombian Civil Aviation authorities for decades and used also powerful political connections to allow his airline go unscathed. this is widely known in the Colombian aviation community.
20 years*
First I’ve heard that, but it doesn’t surprise me in the least
Let's be realistic: That's the only explanation why they are still flying. No sane aviation regulator would allow them to continue operating. I mean...even some countries in AFRICA have banned them as a precaution 😂😂
ACES S.A. was a wonderful airline.
They need to move that "agricultural product" with few questions asked, after all.
Its Aerosucre, thats what went wrong
Random fact. Sucre is actually a french word. It means sugar.
Exactly!
@@vintagetriplex3728
The planes dissolve in the clouds
@@vintagetriplex3728 Probably because AeroAzucar doesn't roll off the tongue as smoothly.
But Perplexity AI says it's named after a currency Sucre which was in use in Latin America, not the word for sugar directly.
The "3 Minutes of Aviation" guy and Lucaas been paying their rent for years thanks to Aerosucre 😂
They always deliver... Material for TH-cam
Yeah 😖😖
😂😂😂
@@MentourPilot😂😂😂😂
Yes - unfortunately.
Was going to post this but decided to check comments first. 3 min of aviation seems to have Aerosucre featured every 2nd or 3rd episode. Usually captioned something like "overloaded plane struggles to climb" or "Overloaded plane barely gets airborne in time".
I am a sucre for these videos.
😂😂
Sweet.
Aerosucre is a Colombian cargo carrier with criminal behavior and suicidal crews that can still risk the innocent peoples life thanks to the mediocrity or corruption of the government authorities. As simple as that. If they continue flying the possibilities of a tragedy taking of over a city is huge.
Kennedy Steve ATC: "That airbus 380 was smart enough to fly itself in here but the crew cant figure out how to pull it into the ramp"
Yes, indeed😅 - but a 727 isn´t able to do it similarly when it is overloaded and on a too short runway.
I can't believe it took this long for an Aerosucre flight to be featured on this channel. They basically have content weekly of dangerous flights and malpractice of piloting!
I mean it's a channel primarily about learning from these disasters, if we're all just going to shake our head and exclaim pilot/organisational error there's not much to get from that
About time I see the Aviation TH-camr GOAT cover this madhouse of a cargo carrier. Gonna be a good watch with coffee.
Colombian coffee I hope, you know for the experience enhancement.
Colombian coffee? You know, for an even better immersion into the story.
@@Fluffy-Fluffy better than some other famous colombian product.
@@conny.rapp.tattooyeah, I see what you mean 🤫🫣🤨
So sad. There are comments about "well it's Aerosucre" but I was with an airline with an L100-30, L188, DC8 and B727 fleet in the '80s and early '90s in Africa. We lost several aircraft, mostly to hostile actors or mechanical failure, and our crews saved a bunch more. It's an entitely different aviation world. I remember flying jumpseat into an airport at night with no ATC radar in a thunderstorm and the runway was in sight only at 300' and 1/2 a mile (NO ALTERNATES) and our 65+yo captain with 18,000 hours kissed the threshold like a baby.
That's both scary and impressive!
They still do this btw. Losing planes is just built into their economic model.
I'm trying to focus my mind on what it is to be an Aerosucre flight crew and knowing that I have to be 100% correct on my every decision because there are likely no margins of safety at all and certainly no corporate backup to ensure safety.
@@benrussell-gough1201 If you apply for Aerosucre, you probably aren't placing much value on your life anyway.
@@benrussell-gough1201 you do this and your family is well treated or you don't do it and be homeless. Pick one. Capitalism without safety nets.
@thewhitefalcon8539
Capitalism by definition has no safety net (for the poor. The rich has TOOOOOOONS of safety nets)
Safety nets in a capitalistic society is just socialist policies implemented by the government.
Aerosucre is the defacto drug mule of the skies. 😂😂😂
And your local postage service provides all the logistics needed to get anything you want without leaving your house... it's a new world and humans will always adapt to the environment to get what they need.
I know a guy well who used to work for the Australian Federal Police and then Interpol and now he's an academic who studies the supply chains of illicit products. He said to me once, "trying to stop the flow with force, is like trying to empty a river with a soup ladle and a bucket. That's how much gets stopped from getting where it's going to go."
Dealing with the issues that cause the demand, will always be a better investment than punishing those who take advantage of opportunities to meet the demands.
Food for thought.
But that almost never happens, government agencies refuse to tackle the problems at their root cause. Or maybe a lot of good people are working there, but they're understaffed, their budgets get constantly cut and nobody really values their hard work. So even the really dedicated ones burn out fast. And the criminals called "politicians" often are entangled in the world of organised crime. A vicious circle.
That was pretty obvious as soon as he mentioned several hundred kilos of cargo that wasn't on the manifest for some strange reason.
@@RobertBDC And a person who was along in the cargo area to watch it - just in case... lol.
@@C.Fecteau-AU-MJ13 the problem is that not all the sources of demand are "solvable". Sure lots of demand is a symptom of addiction, depression, poverty, poor education etc which can all be alleviated by government action (at least in theory), but some demand is just people with enough money who know the health implications and on balance still want the feeling the stuff provides.
I don't see how a government can remove that source of demand, other than by applying an additional down side to the equation (legal consequences if caught).
Any approach to stopping the illegal drug trade that does not involve using force has to include an element of legalisation, or else the illegal drug trade will continue.
And we've seen over decades of trying that force doesn't seem to be able to stop it either. Or at least not the level of force that our society is willing to sanction. It may reduce the trade somewhat, but there are always people willing to take the risk for great rewards, and you can't catch them all.
You made my day with a new video today 🥳
My Day to
Check out Pilot Debrief now; there’s a new video out.
Mentor Pilot - BIG planes.
Pilot Debrief - small planes.
And you thought Spirit Airlines was bad. The worst you have on (every) Spirit flight is a gladiator match in the passenger area.
Maam Spirit is bad
@@sharinaross1865iv flown spirit several times from lga to mco and back. Never had a problem only small seats but im skinny anyway
How is this a valid comparison???
LOL 😂
Petr, I always appreciate the human empathy you bring to your analysis, particularly regarding the humans involved. Thank you.
Yes! Petr really does this all the time....such an awesome human being...
As a COLOMBIAN, we DO NOT claim Aerosucre or "casi Me choco" = "I almost crash airlines".....
My personal favorite: Aerosucre. If anyone ever tells me that I’m the “Aerosucre” of my profession then I’m retiring
I had to smile a little to myself in Australian when you posed your question to the audience about airline safety record, while showing footage of Qantas aircraft. If there is one thing Qantas isn't shy about telling their customers, is their history of never having a fatal crash. Given how old they are as an airline, I suspect this has more to do with dumb luck in those early decades than their modern safety standards.
They haven’t had a fatal _jet_ crash. They have had several fatal crashes, but none since the 1950s
Gravity works in opposite direction Down Under - as any fule no.
And the Kiwis came right after!
Quantas have also spent millions on planes to fix them so that they can say they never lost a plane to a crash. They spent more than the plane is worth in some cases.
@@offshoretomorrow3346 “This is your captane, Fotherington-Tomas. Hello clouds! Hello sky!”
Aerosucre: Inspecting your localizer array on every flight.
Which are the safest and most dangerous airlines?
All airlines are forced to comply with the same rules...
"Ah okay Aerosucre and Pakistain International Airlines......"
(Kind of a joke, definitely personal opinion)... It's not quite true that all airlines follow the same rules - it depends where they operate and also many airlines exceed the mandatory requirements.... (buy some that don't too....)
The story of the owner getting awards, lots of thigns not being checked - sounds like there was a considerable amount of bribery/corruption etc. going on, for a columbian cargo airline you can extrapolate why....
Aero flat probably unsafe too
@@dosmastrify from what i can tell, they're quite safe nowadays
It's not all bad here in Colombia guys... yes we have Aerosucre... but also, Avianca, our flag carrier, second oldest airline in the world, founded on the same year as KLM.
And Avianca's last fatal accident was Avianca 52 in 1990. They haven't lost a plane in 34 years
Avianca is top notch in terms of safety
I’ve flown on avianca and I would never again. I was miserable for every min of the flight. I got there safe tho.
@@Fifthelement203 So far the only airlines I have been on are Korean, Asiana, Jeju, Westjet, and Air Canada
@@Fifthelement203your talking about a lot of airlines today. Westjet, air Canada, even American sometimes
Avianca had several near misses and crashes. And as everything in that country, it sucks as service and punctuality.
Copa is way better.
Colombian airlines are a bad punchline in a terrible joke.
Aerosucre's slogan: IF the aircraft is not overweight, it's not worth flying it. Also: Calculating take off thrust, is a waste of time... When in doubt, flat out! Always take off at 100% thrust!
Now, Aerosucre's planes aren't your usual planes. These go up to 110% thrust.
Another Mentour Pilot video! I’ve rewatched so many episodes this past week, this was first in my feed this morning! Thanks Petter and team!
Glad you enjoyed it! And I’m so happy to have you here, supporting the channel With your views
I hope you enjoyed it!
@@MentourPilotIt was absolutely fantastic!
It’s a shame there was a loss of life… but at least the mechanic made it! Cautionary tale indeed…
Thanks so much for the analysis and all the effort you and your team put into your content! Your guys produce some of the highest quality educational and entertaining content on the platform and I am so grateful to be able to enjoy it!
We always knew how they got it wrong, it's Aerosucre.
Aerosucksre
10:18 early hunch: those charts were not used 😂
Guess and go.
Which shows accurate charts are important for any performance (80/20 regular) 😊
Yes! Another video! Lets goooo!
Aerosucre is a slap in the face to everything aviation has worked so hard to build.
Indeed - and that it is still up in the air.
We should have a Normalization of deviance BINGO card for this stuff 🙂
Written off more than they've owned💀
If I ever need to dispose of an airplane and make it look like an accident, I know what airline I should call
@@olm8829 they don't even have to "make it look like" an accident
@@olm8829 right😂😂😂
No. Written off more than they own at any one time.
@@TommyWylie you just said the same thing I said😂
Thank you Petter and team for always giving us these top quality presentstions 💞
Our pleasure!
The thing is, I don't really forgive the pilots for their lax attitude. There is this thing that isn't always fashionable these days called "Personal integrity". These pilots, before they even got out of 2 seat trainers, would have HAD to know the importance of weight and balance, runway length, etc. I understand peer pressure and all that, but still.
Indeed, exactly.
Honestly I always say something like "Integrity is nice in a pilot but I can live without it. I'm not so sure I can live if the pilot has no risk assessment. So If I have to pick one or the other I'd take the pilot who likes being alive and will do all in their power to keep it that way."
Halo.
Please make a video about Polish flight
LO 5055 Warsaw - New York
IL-62M SP-LBG "Tadeusz Kościuszko"
Deadliest air disaster in Polish History.
Thank you
There was also interesting accident in a Katowice, when they hit multiple ILS antennas, but they didn't know that until they left the plane. Somewhere I have pdf with report from investigation, but it will be difficult for me to find it.
I'd love to see that as well
Would be great to see a video on that!
They have no plane models to record such a flight. I keep asking them to do soviet and russian tu-154 accidents and it's hard cause they don't have the Soviet planes in MSFS 2022.
@@justvid366 MSFS is a crap. X-Plane maybe is not perfect, but it's more realistic. Anyway, there is a Tu-154 for an X-Plane.
Aerosucre is like the scariest flight you can take.😂😂😂😂😂😂
-Give me a ticket to Bogota.
-Ok. You have a flight in Aerosucre....
-Forget it. I walk.
-But you will cross the Darien Gap.
-I take the risk.
@@Miparwo "Wait. I know a guy whose uncle has an old Tiger Moth and sometimes leaves the keys in it. Maybe you can take that."
Considering it is not a passenger airline, how can you even take it??
@@chukwudiilozue9171 did you even watch the video? Their cargo flights have carried passengers
@@chukwudiilozue9171they pack you in a luggage box between boxes with alcohol and explosives.
Props to Aersource for making sure Half of the NTSB have job
That's painful 😅
NTSB only operates in the US.
@@Dirk-van-den-Berg NTSB is gets involved in investigations when it involves any aircraft manufactured by a US company
@@Dirk-van-den-Berg ntsb gets involved in accidents with aircrafts that are made by a us based company
@@goldy_on_pc930 Thanks for the clarification.
Hmm.. the context of the country being in civil was and poor infrastructure and Aerosucre basucally providing a vital service despite its poor standards (in our eyes) is quite an eye-opener. We laugh at them, but if the real truth is not as much "corporate greed" but "it's this or hunger/poverty for hundreds of people", then it's different.
Reminds me of a story from one of the post-communist countries - a state inspection closed down a primary school because of some bureaucratic hygiene-related reason (like, they did not have the proper amount of toilets for the number of pupils as required by the norms, or something like that)...
However, for most of the kids (it was in one of the poorest regions of the country) the school had been THE place where they did their only proper hygiene... (like, the school had running water, they brushed their teeth there in the morning... the school had some soap in there as well which they used... while at homes they had maybe an outhouse and a bathing in a lake/river or something).
So this caused quite an outrage against the bureaucrats.
So yeah, while adhering to standards and regulations is definitely better than not doing so, we need to consider the people and regions who may be thankful to have at least some service, be it a substandar school building, or substandard airline operator...
We often laugh at Aerosucre. Perhaps we should pity them (the pilots and the people there) instead.
Could be. However, if it is true, as others here claim, that Aerosucre's owner used bribes and political connections to keep the airline flying, then they are making money off of it, likely a lot of money. So their motivations may not be quite as noble.
Still, if they provide a vital service no "serious" airline can or will provide, then just shutting them down is not a great option either...
You are right. But, as a colombian, I can assure you that corporate greed and corruption are at least 50% of the problem here
Colombian here, too. It is true that the colombian aviation industry was born due to necessity and lack of basic infrastructure. That is the reason why Avianca is the second oldest airline in the world: basic necessity. However, this is not just a simple civil war of State vs some group. It has been an incredibly complex network of actors with their economic, political and personal interests which has crept up through illegal economy and official political spheres. The owners of Aerosucre are far from innocent, as they, too, have seeked profit from the regulatory and general chaos.
I reckon the reason Aerosucre is still up is because they do still provide a basic service no other airline has taken up, and I am not sure anyone will do it anytime soon.
@@LillaIgelkotten Yes, I did not mean to imply that the owners of Aerosucre are angels doing it from the pure goodness of his heart. I don't know anything about them, and I suppose that some level of corruption and greed is there (as other commenters have mentioned about the bribes etc...).
I was partially talking about the pilots (like, we make fun of them on the internet, but some of them might not be as careless (and part-of the greed-machine) as we think; they may simply be trying their best in the conditions they have, maybe they are praying too before each flight, knowing that they are pushing the limits of the swiss cheese...).
And partially about the authorities, who may be more reluctant to shut the airline down, if they know that it would create more problems for the people who rely on the transport services...
Yes, I mentioned that it might not be that much "corporate greed", perhaps I could have explained it better. But you know, when you learn new information and are still processing it, the thought evolves as it goes along... (and I typed that whole paragraph on my phone, so I did not see it in its entirety when I finished, lol :D)
🔊🗣️🗣️Aerosucre mentioned 🗣️🗣️🔊 what the hell is Safety?!?!
“At some point, safety is pure waste!” Stockton Rush
Aerosucre?
'Sucre' is the French word for sugar.
To my Quebec ears, that sounds like a flight company you'd find in the Strawberry Shortcake tv series.
Someone actually thought calling their company "Aerosugar" would sound serious and competent?
Well... we won't need to sugarcoat this one, now, do we....
What do you mean?? 👀😮
Air Sugar is the sweetest ride you'll ever experience....! 🤩
/'s 🤡🤭
They couldn't very well call it Aerococa(ine), could they?
In Colombia we speak Spanish, not French. Sucre is the surname of one of the liberators of several south american countries. Nothing to do with sugar. Come on.
@@petergamache5368 Ah, yes, xenophobia, wonderful joke.
YAY, NEW VIDEO!!! 😄😄😄
Apart of everyone making a lot of fun about the reliable stream of (luckily mostly benign) Aerosucre mishaps constantly filling YT plane-related videos - it's both pathetic and tragic that they serve such an important role with such an attitude of negligence.
It seems to me that it's cause and effect. They're irreplaceable so they can fail to comply with whatever and they'll still operate. If they're constantly overweight, the need for moving cargo is actually bigger than what they can provide.
@@CieloNotturno86 Indeed.
I have engineering friends working in Aerosucre today, and something that we used to joke about the copmany, before they entered there, was that they would lose all their fleet in crashes rather than age or airworthiness.
Now they're adamant that the company has change substantially and that they avoid committing those mistakes ... and the fact that they invested on newer aircraft and that my friends are working their asses off in maintenance, to me it's saying something.
I hope the best for your friends.
As long as they work on the ground and not in the air, I guess they'll be safe 😅
Jokes aside, I hope the company really has turned around, and I commend your friends for doing their part to make sure it stays that way!
🫶🏼
35:58 notice how they excluded the badly position military post
The plane took it out...
The Armed Forces are untouchable here, unfortunately. Their whims are the main reason why El Dorado isn't much bigger.
Ha. Like I tell the kids not wearing safety gear. It's not a problem until it is, and now you don't have a finger or an eye.
4:41
Aerosucre-CHOOSE YOUR FIGHTER
This one starts with a 'Yikes!' and gets 'Yikes-ier' by the second. Also, I've checked 'plane spotting' off my list of things to do when bored. As an aside, every one of your videos inspires me to take better care of even the most mundane daily activities, and I am grateful.
Usually I have atleast a decent knowledge of an accident before the video, but with Aerosucre it can any of atleast a dozen incidents.
I have seen so many videos of their aircraft barely making it off the runway, that i wonder how they are still allowed to operate.
Cold hard cash in the regulator's hand or a horse's head in their bed via a narcotics cartel.
I guess the answer is "That cargo isn't going to fly itself and we NEED it moved"
My brain won't let me stop seeing Aerosauce.
Thank you for not taking sponsors of better help.
Yeah sure. Whatever. Because trusting your security to some sketchy VPN company based on, essentially, the lie that your ISP "can read all your data", is so much better.
I don't blame creators for taking the money. Most don't know enough to know VPNs are 99% worthless, but everybody getting mad about Betterhelp and ignoring the scores of other sketchy advertising going on, drives me slightly mad.
I was disappointed in that. They're a good resource, and he let you bully him into that. Would have prefered him to stand his ground. It's not up to you who he chooses as a sponser, and I personally would have have rather seen him stand his ground, not give into bullies.
take off from shorter runways ❌
take off with heavier payloads ✅
What a nice video. And I can't imagine how you were containing yourself in order not to say after each safety barrier that had been crossed "but you know, it's aerosucre".😂😂😂😂
As Petter said, "... even if they followed all the safety procedures. And that's a big if."
Gorgeous animations. Amazing and kudos to the team making the videos.
Impeccable video and explanation very professional and very informative in a very good pace ! Thanks!
Thank you too, glad you enjoyed it!
They peeled that carrot until there wasn’t much carrot left
I flew a Malaysian Air Services flight from Penang to Kuala Lumpur in 1982 when passengers were sitting on the floor because it was overbooked.
And here I thought Garuda was the worst airline! Garuda, you have not lived until you experience a 747 stretch make a hard landing causing the front to snap down hard and then entire plane bounce up like it's a Cessna with a trainee pilot, and then finally collect itself and make the roughest landing you have ever experienced. Kudos to 1999 Boeing, I thought the front landing gear would snap on that first hit. Also, thanks to a long runway at Jakarta, we sure needed it.
Garuda is still better than any Pakistani or godforbid Afghani carrier
Small comfort, but still
Completely agree Garuda was awful, with no other options ……..
Made it early for once haha😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄
The thought of airlines pilots losing situational awareness and causing a deadly crash scares the heck out of me.
Just last summer, me and my wife was on a voletea flight from paris orly to lourde tarbe. It was an a320.
The flight was supposed to be 57 minutes but we were stuck in a holding pattern for an hour and 30 minutes on arrival.
Afterwards the pilots tried to land but all of the sudden they yanked the nose all the way up. We were going on a steep climb and we were pinned to our seats. I could not move my body.
And he would pull the nose down and and up again with the engine at full thrust.
I thought we were gonna end up crashing like fly dubai 981.
But luckily the pilot landed on the second approach attempt. But it was nerve racking.
My wife later Joked that our flight almost became another mentour pilot episode. Lol.
I mean it's Colombia, it's corrupt as hell so it's not really surprising me when I hear stuff like "carrying of undocumented passengers" and general lack of information on employees, the fact they're boarding personal connections is enough for me. It's sadly didn't surprise me to hear what happened to this flight and sadly I'm not convinced the next one will be far away. Really sad.
15:35 Extra cargo not on the manifest, at the Columbia/Venezuela border? I wonder what *that* could be...
Columbia University?
That comment is offensive. The drug trade exists because you in the US and Europe refuse to take the logical step of treating drugs as a medical addiction problem imposing on us an impossible regiment of law enforcement. The impact on us is not just corruption but over sixty years unspeakable violence and uncountable deaths. It should be noted the Alvaro Uribe Velez was once the director of the Aerocivil in Colombia. That post was his first political appointment. Though Colombia has a long history of civil aviation dating back to December 1919, a lack of investment in airport infrastructure and modem technology plagued the country until the Juan Manuel Santos Administration (2010-2018) who modernized airports across the country as part of a national infrastructure project that also transformed ports and nearly doubled the mileage of paved roads. The transformation of El Dorado International Airport into a world class airport began here. BOG is currently the second largest in Latin America in passengers and number one in cargo. The failures at AeroSucre are unacceptable for which they are legally accountable. But I emphasize that snide remarks about the drug trade in Colombia demonstrate a profound ignorance of the very real suffering that our country continues to endure because policy makers lack the courage to change a failed war.
@@charleslemos7972 Actually it was a funny comment. And you have no sense of humour. And no sense at all perhaps.
@@roderickcampbell2105 It's not funny for normal people in Colombia who are horribly affected by that trade.
@@davidkavanagh189 Sorry, you are wrong. And not funny either. But it was a funny comment.
This is just one disaster after another. 😢
I would say that all airlines are relatively safe if they are certified by a high-quality certification authority. If not, all bets are off.
That’s correct
Great video, as always! :3
Tl;Dr: Thanks for explaining why being "knit-picky" in aviation is important! :)
The explanation from 12:33 ff. about the safety margins in *every* part of the operation was especially enlightening! Technically there wasn't anything new being said compared to past videos, but in the past I've been thinking "wait, isn't this criticism a little knit-picky?" about several points you raised which appeared small to me. I NOW understand that this alertness towards even the minutest of errors is part of the safety precautions which make aviation so statistically safe. (...I suppose statistics is really the best way to see it: Undertaking a gigantic effort to lower the incident probability to LITERALY ZERO!)
I have to wonder if they DID calculate out the correct speeds. As pointed out the V1 was likely supposed to be 122. They Captain was calling out 23 (very close) and the FO corrected him to 127 (25 degree card settings). It think it was at this point the last chance to avoid an issue was passed, as the captain should have confirmed "127? I thought we had determined 123 for flaps 30 at our weight". But he took the 127 as religiously and .. presto.
The loss of hydraulics, and I’m not a pilot, makes my blood run cold every time it’s even mentioned-probably the most terrifying thing that could happen besides maybe fire.
This is why oversight (enforcement) and a good safety culture are important. It is also why I would not be concerned about safety if I were to fly with Mentours (former?) employer: whenever I have delivered papers in the cockpit (including weight and balance that I calculated), there was always a professional attitude with high regard for safety. As it was for most airlines that I dealt with.
I have also dealt with airlines where I made a personal note that "neither myself nor anyone I know should ever fly with this airline as long as I can help it" because it seemed to me that their pilots lacked a good attitude to safety. Thankfully, I haven't heard about any serious incidents with these airlines, and the ones that worried me the most are no longer active.
It's a relief that it's only a cargo airline.
Agreed that small mistakes in isolation don’t seem like much, but things escalate quickly when they start compounding
Indeed.
I am actually surprised that any / all 727's were / are in operation anywhere... The last time I flew on the 727 was "CON-AIR" in 99'. We actually entered the rear stairs due to the obvious considerations... No air stairs on the tarmac.. Just US Marshals with shotguns and M4's, and a bunch of unhappy passengers.. I have a tiny bit of an affinity for the 727.. NOT what I'd want to fly today.. I just thought the last of the 27's were in use to ferry prisoners... D.B. Cooper likely would have been disappointed... Always great coverage, Mentour Pilot!
Flight engineer inconveniently quiet during this. In a three crew aircraft, isn’t their job to worry about the hydraulics and missing appendages, and merely advise the flight crew on what they can and cannot do any more? As you said, there was a rudder standby system, front and centre. This man had one job.
Apparently at AeroSucre, CRM means “Can’t rationalize movements”.
Indeed. - It would have been really interesting to know what his previous job/s was/ were.
I'm more shocked the captain didn't rotate properly....
At least that was an action he'd done on every single flight before, instead of a pensioner finding that one crucial button that he probably had never needed in his entire career.
@MrNicoJac I keep asking the same question. Why did he not rotate properly? Was it the weight of the aircraft?
@@MrNicoJacif u watch aerosure take offs on TH-cam, you will see that usually they do take off at a low angle then raise gear and fly straight for a while, basically using ground effect to get airborne, then they climb.
This is probably due to unrecorded overloading of the aircraft
36:29 ah yes an industry where safety matters
I just can't believe the mechanic even survived. That's crazy(fortunate)!!
18:40 speaking from experience peter?😅😂
My first thought too! 😂😂
"Undocumented passenger" 🤔
Some cargo airlines are notorious for that. One infamous Aeroflot Cargo fatality back in the early 1990s read like this with a Tu-154 that had a full load of crated tea and 14 unmanifested passengers and their baggage. It never even rotated and drove right off of the end of the runway in West asian Russia into a cluster of airport worker housing at 105% thrust.
@@benrussell-gough1201 Let me guess, loaded to the roof and definitely nowhere near max take off weight? Way too common in 80`s, 90`s and even 2000`s.
They blew through the swiss cheese with an RPG, then followed up with a few shotgun blasts.
😢😢😢Such an intereting video, but also very sad to watch the scenario. Greetings from a Super Caravelle 12 fan in Denmark ❤
So how does Aerosucre get the money to keep replacing planes after they crash them?
Ah yes, overweight, slow rotation speed, tailwind, short runway, obstacle at the end of the runway, airplane thats too big for the airport, perfect recipe for disaster,
You know it's a cool sunday when Peter uploads!!
I am 72 and still working as a software engineer. While there’s a world of difference between being a flight engineer, it does indicate that age is not necessarily an indicator of incapacity. Individuals should be evaluated on their individual skills and abilities.
I agree, but the regulations are in place becouse it is too aexensive and time consuming to examine everyone individually so the age cutoff is placed when the average person will experience notable effects from their age
I'm a retired engineer. I definitely was finding myself making mistakes at the end of my career that I wouldn't have made 20 years earlier.
I'm sure that, if you need it, you can take a couple of minutes to think about a problem without your office crashing to the ground
Software engineers generally don't have to operate under the same time constrainst flight crew has during an emergency
And if you drop dead at your desk you're not going to take anyone else with you.
The fact that I check ATIS while taking off or landing in DCS (and have zero formal flight training) and they didn’t is absolutely mind blowing.
Great video Mentour, but I’m a colombian and the context that you gave about our safety standards doesn’t tell the whole story about aviation in my country. Yes, Aerosucre is famous for their lacking safety standards and reckless behavior but that doesn’t represent the state of aviation in the whole country. Our main airport, Eldorado (SKBO) manages over 35 million passengers a year with dozens of destinations to North America and Europe. We also have a strong local air safety record, where yearly over 45 million passengers soar through our airspace safely. To anyone who doubts about flying into Colombia, be sure that we are up to the global safety standards and that our beautiful country would love to welcome everyone who wants to visit it. 🇨🇴
❤❤❤
love how you live in a country where everything works and this is inconceivable to you 😂😂😂😂😂
im sooo jelous, this could have happened here, i mean since the LAPA accident in august 31 1999 (hope to see it on this channel sometime) anything is possible here.
3 minutes of aviation has entered the chat.
When an airline's problem is so infamous that it has a kind of "meme status" on the internet, you know it's bad (but of course, they'll keep doing it and downplaying it for as long as possible to maximise profit). For Ryanair, it's how they come down too hard; for Aerosucre, it's how they go up too soft.
2:45 “local products” you forgot the most lucrative cash crop lol
That may be the reason the crew didn't know the true weight. They had agreed to some illegal load with legal things but didn't know of the illegal load of illegal things.
I think that's what he meant
Colombia’s biggest international export starts with a C. Can you guess what it is? Coffee! The local products must’ve been coffee lol.
There is zero reason that product would be going from Puerto Carreno to Bogota by air. Nice try at a c@ppy joke though...
@@maryeckel9682 Yes, indeed - and also the reason for the myterious six person on board which was not on the scheduled crew list.
for the editor (the video one): GOOD JOB!!! Not only for this video, all of them, nobody says anything about the editor, I felt that is needed to say that is good about what is happening on the editing part.The music, the recordings from the whatever simulator, the timings, everything, good. Just works.HUUUGE LIKE
It’s humorous but unfortunate that you can accurately guess what’s going to happen based purely on the airline 😅
Major western carriers: “There was a freak one in a million malfunction, but the brave and incredibly experienced pilots did everything in their power to save the plane!”
Latin American: “They didn’t maintain the plane or train the pilots, they lied on government documents that weren’t being checked anyways, and then they attempted to fly difficult routes through the mountains. What could possibly go wrong?”
Asian: “The planes are generally fine but we’ve managed to find the most hostile and dysfunctional flight crews possible. wtf is CRM?”
Africa: “What if you took the issues of Latin America and Asia and put them together?”
Specifically Aeroflot: “The pilots were drunk again”
OMG, but funny enough...
I get it that you want more money, but four ads-- long ones--in five minutes just chases us away.
Good old normalization of deviance
The thing about working right next to an airport in the USA that is primarily cargo, there are the commercial cargo planes taking off and they are way up by the time they pass over our building on the other side of the street from the airport. They seem to prioritize altitude. Then there are the fire fighting planes flying low and fast over the building. They are obviously prioritizing speed with an obvious more fighter pilot mentality to their flying. You go to Columbia and there is Aerosucre on the edge of death seeing how much drugs or what have you loaded onto the plane and maybe clear the perimeter fence.
For landings I have joked that we need to install a security camera on the roof of the 2-story building to check for skid marks. Especially when a Boeing 747 cargo plane passes over, it is so huge that it seems like you could almost reach up and touch the plane as it passes over the building. With the whole Boeing and 5G cellular debacle, I have gone on about why it would be a bad idea for the phone company to upgrade its cell network around the building while they are in the building going over phone and wireless Internet service sales with us. We have had a good laugh over these things with my boss looking a little nervous, especially when I was talking about foggy days and what 5G service was supposed to be interfering with at the time (ground proximity radar). I have also brought up the whole deal where there is a large compressed natural gas filling station (where standard tank pressure is 3,600 psig) for semi-trucks right next to us with over 100 semi's there at any given time fueling up and have speculated what would happen if they had a mishap over there while a large commercial airliner was passing low overhead for approach. The general consensus seeing you can only legally drive in the direction of the fueling station when exiting the facility is to just drive the wrong way down the road to try to escape, hopefully before the explosions next door take down an airliner into the building.
Comforting thoughts, right?
I suppose this brings up a question about safety. As we have seen these compressed natural gas semi trucks catch on fire before and explode with huge explosions, what is your take on the lack of regulations allowing for one of these large compressed natural gas fueling stations to be located along the flight path of a major airport, literally across the street from the airport? I just don't think this is a good idea. There has got to be a better place for something like this.
As a Swiss your constant negative connotations to our national cheese pains me 😥 otherwise an enjoyably informative documentary, thank you.
I love your cocoa (hot chocolate) and pocket knives. Your cheese, not so much.
If it's any consolation in this case there was very little actual cheese, just a lot of holes.
Well, if we're paying in Swiss Francs, we want actually cheese, not air pockets 😜😂
I agree with MrNicoJac. If you'd give us the entire cheese block without deceptive holes, well....maybe then......
You know you are doing something wrong when every plane spotter is watching you because of the frequent close calls.
So happy the maintainer made it