The benign humanistic, holistic wisdom that is discussed here is the diametric opposite of our collective newsfeed! Our apparent differences are exploited and amplified. Instead of acknowledging our human commonalities and mutual interests and NEEDS, our global power centers focus (and capitalize) on our perceived and manufactured differences. The growing focus on our picayune differences rather than our collective needs, is tragic and profoundly disturbing.
Nate, I am very impressed with your openness and ability to integrate these practices into your solution set. It’s not always about hard science and data, but about the hearts and spirits of those who capture, interpret, and most importantly act on this. Bravo.
Wow. I wasn't going to listen as I had preconceived ideas around this subject. I'm so glad I was able to override my own biases! But that's part of the inner work, right? There was so much depth, knowledge, compassion, and integrity in this conversation. My curiosity has been ignited. Thank you to both of you. ❤
I can't say a number or percentage of times Nate and his guests have done this to me, but it's not uncommon and it's extremely rewarding and illuminating!😊
Nate this is an absolute gem of an interview. Priceless. Alexandre is brilliant and wise and this conversation is a keeper; the epitome of gnosis and grace. Must be shared widely and listened to more than once. Thank you.
A lifelong practice of meditation may be what enabled me to face the current human predicament. I hope that all you followers of Nate and TGS who are experiencing despair, grief, or mental health issues take Alexandre's words to heart, and find a practice you can commit to. I wish his message would speak to the hundreds of millions who are still in denial, who need a practice of some sort to allow themselves the space to grieve. Unlike despondency, grief heals.
Hoopla! Pandemonium! Run around in a circle like an over excited pup! Nate, you fox! I never would have imagined you'd have somebody like Alexandre on your podcast. Listening to him reminds me of the first time I saw the movie "My Dinner With André." Every other thing he says, I just want to climb up onto the middle of the dinner table, and jump up and down for joy. And affirmation. And relief: Holy toledo, Buckaroo! Somebody else knows. My Masters thesis back in 1976 was, no kidding, trying to be a summary of everything Alexandre is talking about. The whole package, including the science of acoustics and harmonic resonance, the human physiology and evolution, the mountains of loosely organized and then barely examined field recordings. My major was in "World Music" (a public-relations friendly term for ethnomusicology), and my premise was exactly the same: that what human beings universally experience as musical sound is, in essence, synonymous with what religion calls "the word of God." I've continued the study throughout most of my life, though I'm not nearly as advanced or articulate as Alexandre. I could go on for two full screens about my experiences (never mind that I usually do), but I'm mainly here to attest that everything Alexandre is talking about is right on point. I started life listening to, then playing classical Western music on piano, then violin. When I went away to college I wasted no time getting into shamanic/esoteric research, which, among other things, eventually led me through jazz to Indian music. And I was hooked for life. In the music of raga, I had found the kind of "entrainment," (to use Alexandre's term), I had been looking for. A whole new world of cultural expression on the meaning of human being opened up for me. I still listen now primarily to music of other cultures. Most of it is modally based rather than using only the harmonics of Western music, which resonantly speaking is a whole different ballpark, as Alexandre points out. Which is by way of saying that now when I go back to listen to the music of my favorite Western classical composers, everything, including the entire orchestra, sounds horribly sour and out of tune to me. The tones are bent, like it's something trying to be what it isn't... And that's exactly what it is, speaking in terms of absolute, or acoustical harmony. I find that it disturbs everything in my body -- all my organs feel somehow like they're going off kilter, and my kinesthetic sense of equanimity, of being connected to everything, is completely disrupted. I have to immerse myself deliberately for an hour or two in diatonically based music, force myself to ignore the feelings of offness, and eventually I can readapt and listen. But at times I just can't stand it, and have to turn it off. The point here is that this business about diatonic harmony being out of tune, in turn affecting our sense of harmony with the world is very real. This wasn't anything that anyone told me. It's just something that happened in the course of my listening. Alexandre's ideas about the connection between harmonics, language, and the nature of human communication are all right on. It's why I spent hours at one point in school teaching myself to drone "aum" so as to perfectly include every vowel, then tried to extend the sound down into the range of Tibetan throat singing, while taking notes on the effects on my body. His assertion that ethos creates pathos, also spot on. Musical sound, especially when it is attuned to the primal harmonies of physics and nature, is connected to the body through intimate synesthetic pathways between hearing and kinesthesia (very loosely, our sense of pressure, or touch, and by inference, sense of movement. The ways we sense pressure are far more complicated than what we normally think of as touch.) Before I drone on into a 3 screen treatise, which I could easily do: As a somato-emotional teacher/therapist, I'm excited for you, Nate, that you've discovered within your own body this incredibly beautiful experience called "resonance." And that Alexandre has introduced you (and the community) to the marvel that is the internal landscape of musical sound. Potentially this can open up a rich new world of experience for you. As any internal marshall arts master will tell you, kinesthetic sensitivity potentially extends far beyond the boundaries of the physical body, and its development beyond what we normally sense can be very rewarding. The truth is that the majority of us Westerners are walking around very shut own from what we actually could be experiencing. That's not a criticism -- it attests to our true potential. The depth of emotion and sense of connection that can become available is beyond words. Thank you and your team for introducing Alexandre and his work to all of us. 🌾💚🐦 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Nothing is more beautiful than the revelation of truth.
Wow!!!! I have spent a good part of my 75 years searching and exploring, for what life is all about reading hundreds of books on philosophy, Buddhism, psychology, Biology and other sciences, taking drugs in the 60's in California counterculture days, and doing some meditation. Alexandre in three hours has given us the most articulate, widest perspective and, and most wisdom I have ever experienced. Now I have to go and feel harmonics and resonance.. Thankyou ever so much.
LOL! I thought it would be just a fancy explanation of sounds, but it turned out to be one of the most profound podcasts I've ever listened to. Thank you! I'm very grateful to you both :)
My inner child is jumping up and down with joy while I'm crying like a baby. This is so hopeful to see awareness expanding. Now I'm going to watch again,and again.
Same I so Live Love and Breath music in its so many forms as does Gaia’s natural vocal world Enlightenment does too Through especially Birdsongs of our precious planet 🕊🦜💃🪘🌏❤️
And so this is why singing especially is So important in our Indigenous story telling Learning for our next Generation of what to Learn and to Survive into our Future with Looking after our Grandmother has never been so Important as Now Gaia Bless us All 🦋 🐝🐋🦜🐆🌏❤️
Alexandre was a guest teacher in the Sonic Theology program at 9ways academia which I attended in 2023. A true teacher that transcends & includes all of the inner teaching ( mysticism) of sound. There are 3 aspects to sound, one which you can hear ( auditory & brain, mind) the second is how sound transport you to your inner voyage and lastly the secret level, how master’s teaches through the wings of the sound. It all comes down to what he implies with Ethos, Pathos, Gnosis. Alexandre is a shaman shaman’s , that is a teacher of teachers. And we are thankful for that.
This was an extraordinary interview - I especially love the comments at 234 & 235. I’m listening from Ibiza - I feel so lucky to have my child in alternative education here -a school that focuses on independence, spirituality, empowerment, positive values, meditation, mindfulness - all things I believe will be needed in the coming times.
I have been playing blues harp (blues harmonica) for 50 years. Alexandre, thank you for teaching me why I always knew that blues harp was music from my soul, played on an instrument built to play songs on the diatonic scale. Blues harp is based on the ability to "bend" the small brass reeds so that the sound can be made to move up and down the scale, widen, and the diatonic "position" is just where one starts or moves through. Thank you for teaching me about the feeling I have always had when playing music, that it is enough in itself. Thank you for sharing wisdom.
I’ve had the pleasure of working with Alexandre on multiple occasions, both one-on-one and in group settings. They have been the most impactful experiences in my life… and I don’t say that lightly. Truly compass-shifting… they showed me why I am here and what my bliss is. No price you can pay for that.
I heard that there was a professor at the University of Hokkaido doing research on various music effects on water. Some music (classical, for example) caused water to freeze in symmetrical fractals, but punk and heavy metal causes water to freeze unsymmetrically. Our bodies are mostly water! So sounds definitely affect us physically!
Music is helpful for sure, but so is simply listening to nature. I’m a composer and I love to make field recordings and share them with others. I was a concert violinist and when I moved to a more rural part of California, where I can listen to nature outside my window throughout the day, my perspective on music changed. This is a very complex topic in and of itself so I’ll just leave it at that.
Here is a simple mathematical example of western false harmony. The C major chord is C, E, and G. C= 261.6256hz E= 329.6275569hz G= 391.9954hz When combined they are not quite in the ratio of small whole numbers. E/C = 1.25992105, but 5/4 = 1.25 G/C = 1.498307077, but 3/2 = 1.5 G/E= 1.189207115, but 6/5 = 1.2
It's amazing, isn't it, that that seemingly slight a variance in frequency can throw everything off... And that our sensitivities are so finely tuned, we can clearly experience the difference.
As great as it was to have a career as an electrical consultant, designing NZEBs, K-12 and university building electrical, lighting and low voltage systems, nothing in my career ever informed me of my humanity like drumming with friends on weekends, going on amazing, magical, mystical rhythmic journeys.
Sometimes I have wondered if study of peak oil, collapse, social breakdown, pollution, climate breakdown, econcomic unravelling are all forms of addiction and suffering. We know we should live with less, but we spend more hours than most contemplating the loss of what we have. Are we on the right path? Of course, with this knowledge we are preparing, but have we been until now by way of ignorance arrested?
Absolutely what everyone needs to hear and learn! Thank you, Nate for having Alexandre on! You could have multiple episodes with Alexandre for sure! As for music, I play multiple musical instruments as well as am someone that has experienced transcendent states through sound and music! May I also recommend something called "Holotropic Breathwork" which is a form of therapy developed by Dr. Stanislav Grof a Psychiatrist that is one of the principal developers of Transpersonal Psychology and one the earliest people to work with Psychedelics with patients. Holotropic Breathwork combines Breathing and Music and Art. Music is a very important and integral part of the experience while breathing. I've experienced it many times and recommend it to anyone that has experienced traumas and/or is interested in deeper levels of the mind/body connection!
We actually need to have small sustainable gardening education of being at one with our ecosystems not poison it with chemicals into our soils as like our Neanderthal did and enlighten each other with joy of not needing but giving in love of music grow lung foods and enlightening those who are needing of support to learn in trust of a empathetic Love for all living things and challenges 🕊🌏😇💖
In regards to the sound healing benefits of the ducks and chickens, I think another large part of the benefits is that similar sounds are coming from many directions which allows our minds to feel enveloped in a world as a kind of calibration and attunement. We are often lacking a lot of directional data from sound/music. Or overwhelmed by a variety of sounds in a city. I get this effect when listening to the leaves ruffle through the wind when lying under a tree or from being surrounded by frogs or crickets. Those are more precisely and subtle sounds that I feel begin to paint a sonic landscape and get us out of the visual realm. Lastly as a musician studying Cognitive Systems Theory and Process Philosophy it would seem that visuals are representational (left brain projections) whereas music/sound is a processual.
Visuals in our modern culture are generally representational, but not necessarily. What most laypeople call "abstract", as in "abstract expressionism" is actually non-representational, and one of the most interesting art exhibits I ever visited was an exhibit of "concrete" art. Composition, facture, color, and other factors of visual ethos in fact do affect pathos. Even representational artists understand that the most important aspects are not found in the depicted narrative.
Way cool pod today, Me & the Goats dig it Wild days here Little Ducklings popping lol 15 little Indian runners so fare & many more about 15 Have a great day all well here in S.OR .You Can Feel the Rhythm of Space & Time on a Glass Lake No Moon Just clear Sky & Stars Crater Lake ?
Thank you, Alexander, for the valuable work you contribute to the field and for your integrity. This was the best podcast I’ve listened to in a long time, and it’s worth revisiting again and again to fully absorb the wisdom shared. Alexander masterfully blends neuroscience, music, physics, esotericism, and spirituality, and it’s truly inspiring to hear him unveil such profound knowledge. Thank you both for this gem-we are deeply grateful.
Wow, this one was so multi-dimensional and inspiring. Alexandre goes deep on many aspects of culture that need attention and deep curiosity. SOUND LEADS THE WAY!! SING EVERYDAY! This cast was so inspiring as a musician myself. Thanks so much Alexandre and Nate. May we seek out and Listen to master musicians, chant and purify the body and mind! Johnathan Goldman explores this realm deeply as well. Some of my favorite master musicians are Dhafer Youseff, Mike Love, Groundation, Bill Frisell, Brian Eno, Nils Frahm, Rakesh Chaurasia, Ali Akbar Kahn, Anoushka Shankar, Ali Farka Toure and so many more!!
Omg...This is your best one yet Nate...SOOO interesting, surprising, educational, awe and hope inspiring...PLEASE have Alexandre back soon...I am now going to his website to explore...Truly such a service you are performing for so many Nate...I would never have come across Alexandre even though I study, read, am curious, well educated, have the time, etc This is exactly what I needed to hear at this point in time and at this point in my life...I am SO grateful to both you and Alexandre...💙
I've been to many concerts in 70's or 80's. But one of the most moving is Jordi Savall, he plays medieval music with musicians from around the world, mainly in cathedrals around Europe with no amplification. It's incredible, and moving.
Here's a video I made to relax with a kaleidoscopic underwater environment. The music was made in an interesting way: I created a piano track and recorded 2 string tracks based on the piano track but that were unaware of each other and then muted the piano: th-cam.com/video/0mThQXFhdEg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=HMMJJtJnX2acklOr
[I was intermittently listening to this while also reading Federico Campagna's Technic and Magic, and I ran into this excerpt which was eerily appropriate] "Drawing on its Latin etymology, per-sonar, a 'person' is just the first point through which the ineffable resounds"
I really wasn't expecting this topic would appear on your podcast Nate. I've listened to the whole thing and what Alexandre is talking about here totally validates what I've been doing the last few years. Which is something I call Listening Meditation. Thank so much Nate and Alexandre! Fantastic!
This dud dismisses the claim that Ptolemy Philadelphus commissioned the Septuagint as " legendary" but leaves out that there has hardly been a bigger patron of literary works them this particular Ptolemy. Some say he ordered all manuscripts entering Egypt to have been confiscated and copies were returned in guise of originals. The same Ptolemy has his name inscribed on Ashoka's edict as being the willing recipient of Buddhist missionaries. Max Muller and several learned Jewish scholars claim the first legend of King Solomon deciding the true mother claiment was lifted from a Buddhist jataka.
1. Sound and music have been used by humans for thousands of years for healing, spiritual practices, and altering consciousness. Ancient cultures understood the power of sound and resonance better than modern Western society. 2. Western music has deviated from "true harmony" based on natural harmonic series. This happened around the 11th-12th centuries with the development of equal temperament tuning. While still powerful, Western music may be less impactful on human consciousness and healing than music aligned with natural harmonics. 3. Sound meditation and sound healing practices using instruments like singing bowls, gongs, and overtone singing can have profound effects on quieting the mind, reducing stress, and promoting healing. The physical vibrations and harmonics impact the body and brain. 4. Entrainment - how music and sound affect our physiology and mental state - is a powerful force that shapes our experiences, from films to religious services to advertising. We are constantly being entrained by sounds around us. 5. Many modern health issues stem from trauma, stress, and disconnection from our true nature. Sound and music practices, along with meditation, can help heal trauma and reconnect us to ourselves. 6. Personal healing through sound, music and other practices could have wider societal impacts if more people, especially those in positions of power, engaged in these practices. Collective healing could potentially address larger societal issues. 7. The speaker advocates for a more holistic approach integrating science, spirituality, and ancient wisdom to address human and planetary challenges. He suggests our pain and destructive behaviors may stem from a collective trauma in humanity's past. 8. For individuals, cultivating curiosity, openness to new experiences, and practices like sound meditation could be beneficial for personal growth and healing. This is especially important for young people. Sound and music are powerful but underutilized tools for individual and collective healing, with potential relevance to addressing larger societal and environmental challenges.
If I listen to music while playing chess, I play much worse! If it's music with vocals, then it's a total disaster. This is a very interesting phenomenon for me, because I calmly read, write and work while listening to music.
Learn to play an instrument, especially instruments where you can play chords especially stringed instruments. If you think ringing a bowl is exciting, wait until you experience impovising in a jam session with players who really know their stuff. Its becomming a smaller and smaller community of folks who learn and put in the work because they can type notes on a computer and basically build music like player pianos but are helpless in jamming it out. So many people can only watch and wish they could sit in. They think because they didn't start as kids it's too late. I've seen folks start in their 40s and make amazing progress. Its the most satisfying thing in my life. I can play a guitar or piano just by looking at the fretboard or keyboard and hear the notes in my head.
I think that the detour that music in europe took in the 11th/12th centuries might be the root explanation as to why WEIRD people are so messed up, and has thus brought the world to its present state of peril. This interview was mind blowing, thank you so much! I am going to pay much more attention to what I listen to and how I listen.
Walking in our forest with birds singing. The second tune was water, a lake, soft rain. Yet he reminds me of back in the seventies they cut music to save money and mathematics suffered.
It is indeed a mystery the making tolerable that which should be intolerable. There is a reason for pain and a value to suffering and a value to making others suffer as well. This is the knowledge we resist not analgesia.
I ring my dogs ceramic bowls together at their feeding time to let them know that it is time to eat. I have to be careful when washing the bowls to not let them clink together or I have to give them food, otherwise they are inconsolable.
Obviously your self imposed sabbatical trip to India seems to have had quite an effect on you Nate, but I’m not sure where Alexandre Tannous fits into the ideology of “The Great Simplification”. Alexandre Tannous’s talents are not unique, in the 70 and 80’s I studied Transcendental Meditation (TM) of the form taught by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. At a group meditation one weekend I met Muz Murray, a very charismatic young man, who taught sound (shouting) yoga and stress relief through mass hypnotism (it was the first and last time I’ve ever been hypnotised). Muz Murray is now known as Ramana Baba in India, an internationally recognised spiritual teacher, mystic and Mantra Yogi, maybe check him out. Referring back to TM they had political ideology it ran under the name of “The Natural Law Party” I’m just wondering if this is maybe the direction you now see The Great Simplification” involving itself in🤔
No. I just learned new things. And I think music/resonance are a basic practice we’ve forgotten. This is one of a thousand themes relevant to the great simplification 🙏❤️🌎
Awesome conversation! I really appreciated the information about entrainment. I had understood that more narrowly in relationship to rhythm but hearing this made me think of it more broadly. The comparison of empirical knowledge versus knowledge through gnosis was fascinating too. I felt a minor objection to hearing equal temperament talked about as a “degrading” of harmony. To me it is another system of harmony, and while it is not directly derived from the overtone series, it allows for a different kind of flexibility and affordances through music. Just intonation gives you pure intervals, but if you stray out of key, you get way out of tune. Equal temperament compromises the pure interval ratios, but it allows you to play with harmony in new ways like freely moving keys. That’s still harmony and it’s not wrong. You can clearly make emotionally resonant music using equal temperament. There are powerful things harmony can do when you using contrasting keys. Just look at Beethoven, Coltrane, Pixinguinha, or The Beatles to name a few. Music is complex and different kinds of music value different things and expresses itself differently. All that said, equal temperament has become the dominant system of harmony in the west and most people don’t know it’s not the only way to go. Glad to see you sharing the harmony we get from the overtone series!
Also casting my vote for Ted Gioia as a potential guest perhaps for a future round table. He’s a music writer and historian with a phenomenal breadth of knowledge about history and culture. For anyone interested, he’s got an incredible Substack or here’s him talking about some of the history of music used to produce altered states of mind. th-cam.com/video/IQpeKZE8iXA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=qOcKyDL81wK0mD5I
The first chimes Alexandre played, brought my "energy" up. The second chimes brought some sadness, and questions. I cannot stress this enough: "Listen in the non-doing state. Listen without trying to label things". To me, this is where the journey is. and, I disagree: You can know something without measuring it. Listen to sitar player Ravi Shankar: Raga Bhimpalasi💖
Yes am watching your incredibly heartfelt warming podcast now Nate and funnily enough I have of late have discovered so much throw my Love of music in so many ways Whether it’s to dance by myself to a particular song in the falling in Love of someone or through the loss of grief of loosing someone close I actually came upon by accident with Peter Pringle and he brings emotions of past ancient music of voice and renditions of old instruments into the closet of how different cultures sang in this period Peter researches deeply with learning in the true pitch of how these ancient worlds sang Very mesmerising in need ❤️
I got so over excited in trying to listen to beautiful inspirational podcast last night that I lost myself into playing my Bongos Having a couple of red vinos didn’t help lol but am watching this sober second time round 💃🪘🥰💖
I just listened to the two different chimes. The first one spoke to me as clarity in thought while the second suggested a crowding that I found disconcerting.
Beautiful man, beautiful music, consciousness, harmony and hair, Alexandre! Spirituality into science, bravo.....!
Nate your pursuit in inquiry and understanding
in the great simplification is amazing!
The benign humanistic, holistic wisdom that is discussed here is the diametric opposite of our collective newsfeed! Our apparent differences are exploited and amplified. Instead of acknowledging our human commonalities and mutual interests and NEEDS, our global power centers focus (and capitalize) on our perceived and manufactured differences. The growing focus on our picayune differences rather than our collective needs, is tragic and profoundly disturbing.
Nate, I am very impressed with your openness and ability to integrate these practices into your solution set. It’s not always about hard science and data, but about the hearts and spirits of those who capture, interpret, and most importantly act on this. Bravo.
Wow. I wasn't going to listen as I had preconceived ideas around this subject. I'm so glad I was able to override my own biases! But that's part of the inner work, right? There was so much depth, knowledge, compassion, and integrity in this conversation. My curiosity has been ignited. Thank you to both of you. ❤
I can't say a number or percentage of times Nate and his guests have done this to me, but it's not uncommon and it's extremely rewarding and illuminating!😊
Nate this is an absolute gem of an interview. Priceless. Alexandre is brilliant and wise and this conversation is a keeper; the epitome of gnosis and grace. Must be shared widely and listened to more than once.
Thank you.
A lifelong practice of meditation may be what enabled me to face the current human predicament. I hope that all you followers of Nate and TGS who are experiencing despair, grief, or mental health issues take Alexandre's words to heart, and find a practice you can commit to. I wish his message would speak to the hundreds of millions who are still in denial, who need a practice of some sort to allow themselves the space to grieve. Unlike despondency, grief heals.
Hoopla! Pandemonium! Run around in a circle like an over excited pup! Nate, you fox! I never would have imagined you'd have somebody like Alexandre on your podcast. Listening to him reminds me of the first time I saw the movie "My Dinner With André." Every other thing he says, I just want to climb up onto the middle of the dinner table, and jump up and down for joy. And affirmation. And relief: Holy toledo, Buckaroo! Somebody else knows.
My Masters thesis back in 1976 was, no kidding, trying to be a summary of everything Alexandre is talking about. The whole package, including the science of acoustics and harmonic resonance, the human physiology and evolution, the mountains of loosely organized and then barely examined field recordings. My major was in "World Music" (a public-relations friendly term for ethnomusicology), and my premise was exactly the same: that what human beings universally experience as musical sound is, in essence, synonymous with what religion calls "the word of God." I've continued the study throughout most of my life, though I'm not nearly as advanced or articulate as Alexandre.
I could go on for two full screens about my experiences (never mind that I usually do), but I'm mainly here to attest that everything Alexandre is talking about is right on point. I started life listening to, then playing classical Western music on piano, then violin. When I went away to college I wasted no time getting into shamanic/esoteric research, which, among other things, eventually led me through jazz to Indian music. And I was hooked for life. In the music of raga, I had found the kind of "entrainment," (to use Alexandre's term), I had been looking for. A whole new world of cultural expression on the meaning of human being opened up for me. I still listen now primarily to music of other cultures. Most of it is modally based rather than using only the harmonics of Western music, which resonantly speaking is a whole different ballpark, as Alexandre points out.
Which is by way of saying that now when I go back to listen to the music of my favorite Western classical composers, everything, including the entire orchestra, sounds horribly sour and out of tune to me. The tones are bent, like it's something trying to be what it isn't... And that's exactly what it is, speaking in terms of absolute, or acoustical harmony. I find that it disturbs everything in my body -- all my organs feel somehow like they're going off kilter, and my kinesthetic sense of equanimity, of being connected to everything, is completely disrupted. I have to immerse myself deliberately for an hour or two in diatonically based music, force myself to ignore the feelings of offness, and eventually I can readapt and listen. But at times I just can't stand it, and have to turn it off. The point here is that this business about diatonic harmony being out of tune, in turn affecting our sense of harmony with the world is very real. This wasn't anything that anyone told me. It's just something that happened in the course of my listening.
Alexandre's ideas about the connection between harmonics, language, and the nature of human communication are all right on. It's why I spent hours at one point in school teaching myself to drone "aum" so as to perfectly include every vowel, then tried to extend the sound down into the range of Tibetan throat singing, while taking notes on the effects on my body.
His assertion that ethos creates pathos, also spot on. Musical sound, especially when it is attuned to the primal harmonies of physics and nature, is connected to the body through intimate synesthetic pathways between hearing and kinesthesia (very loosely, our sense of pressure, or touch, and by inference, sense of movement. The ways we sense pressure are far more complicated than what we normally think of as touch.)
Before I drone on into a 3 screen treatise, which I could easily do: As a somato-emotional teacher/therapist, I'm excited for you, Nate, that you've discovered within your own body this incredibly beautiful experience called "resonance." And that Alexandre has introduced you (and the community) to the marvel that is the internal landscape of musical sound. Potentially this can open up a rich new world of experience for you. As any internal marshall arts master will tell you, kinesthetic sensitivity potentially extends far beyond the boundaries of the physical body, and its development beyond what we normally sense can be very rewarding. The truth is that the majority of us Westerners are walking around very shut own from what we actually could be experiencing. That's not a criticism -- it attests to our true potential. The depth of emotion and sense of connection that can become available is beyond words.
Thank you and your team for introducing Alexandre and his work to all of us. 🌾💚🐦
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Nothing is more beautiful than the revelation of truth.
Wow!!!! I have spent a good part of my 75 years searching and exploring, for what life is all about reading hundreds of books on philosophy, Buddhism, psychology, Biology and other sciences, taking drugs in the 60's in California counterculture days, and doing some meditation. Alexandre in three hours has given us the most articulate, widest perspective and, and most wisdom I have ever experienced. Now I have to go and feel harmonics and resonance.. Thankyou ever so much.
LOL! I thought it would be just a fancy explanation of sounds, but it turned out to be one of the most profound podcasts I've ever listened to. Thank you! I'm very grateful to you both :)
My inner child is jumping up and down with joy while I'm crying like a baby. This is so hopeful to see awareness expanding. Now I'm going to watch again,and again.
👍
Same I so Live Love and Breath music in its so many forms as does Gaia’s natural vocal world Enlightenment does too Through especially Birdsongs of our precious planet 🕊🦜💃🪘🌏❤️
And so this is why singing especially is So important in our Indigenous story telling Learning for our next Generation of what to Learn and to Survive into our Future with
Looking after our Grandmother has never been so Important as Now Gaia Bless us All 🦋
🐝🐋🦜🐆🌏❤️
Amazing Nate we all need to hear this !
You are helping so many people !
Alexandre was a guest teacher in the Sonic Theology program at 9ways academia which I attended in 2023. A true teacher that transcends & includes all of the inner teaching ( mysticism) of sound. There are 3 aspects to sound, one which you can hear ( auditory & brain, mind) the second is how sound transport you to your inner voyage and lastly the secret level, how master’s teaches through the wings of the sound. It all comes down to what he implies with Ethos, Pathos, Gnosis. Alexandre is a shaman shaman’s , that is a teacher of teachers. And we are thankful for that.
Good stuff. I'm totally sure that frequency is key to life. Modern society has blinded us to the power of light and sound in our life.
This was an extraordinary interview - I especially love the comments at 234 & 235. I’m listening from Ibiza - I feel so lucky to have my child in alternative education here -a school that focuses on independence, spirituality, empowerment, positive values, meditation, mindfulness - all things I believe will be needed in the coming times.
I have been playing blues harp (blues harmonica) for 50 years. Alexandre, thank you for teaching me why I always knew that blues harp was music from my soul, played on an instrument built to play songs on the diatonic scale. Blues harp is based on the ability to "bend" the small brass reeds so that the sound can be made to move up and down the scale, widen, and the diatonic "position" is just where one starts or moves through. Thank you for teaching me about the feeling I have always had when playing music, that it is enough in itself. Thank you for sharing wisdom.
After hour 2 it really ramps up! Good to see your progression, Nate. Thanks for the intro to Alexandre.
Profound effect conversation, thank❤🌹🙏 you, Nate and Alexandre 🤗
Absolutely loved it, Nate!
More of the like, I’m here for it 🌞
Much love from Berlin Germany!
Great interview Nate. 🙏. Such a wise man with a gift for humanity all should comprehend.
I’ve had the pleasure of working with Alexandre on multiple occasions, both one-on-one and in group settings. They have been the most impactful experiences in my life… and I don’t say that lightly. Truly compass-shifting… they showed me why I am here and what my bliss is. No price you can pay for that.
I heard that there was a professor at the University of Hokkaido doing research on various music effects on water. Some music (classical, for example) caused water to freeze in symmetrical fractals, but punk and heavy metal causes water to freeze unsymmetrically. Our bodies are mostly water! So sounds definitely affect us physically!
Thank you so much for this captivating and very necessary conversation
Music is helpful for sure, but so is simply listening to nature. I’m a composer and I love to make field recordings and share them with others. I was a concert violinist and when I moved to a more rural part of California, where I can listen to nature outside my window throughout the day, my perspective on music changed. This is a very complex topic in and of itself so I’ll just leave it at that.
Here is a simple mathematical example of western false harmony.
The C major chord is C, E, and G.
C= 261.6256hz
E= 329.6275569hz
G= 391.9954hz
When combined they are not quite in the ratio of small whole numbers.
E/C = 1.25992105, but 5/4 = 1.25
G/C = 1.498307077, but 3/2 = 1.5
G/E= 1.189207115, but 6/5 = 1.2
It's amazing, isn't it, that that seemingly slight a variance in frequency can throw everything off... And that our sensitivities are so finely tuned, we can clearly experience the difference.
As great as it was to have a career as an electrical consultant, designing NZEBs, K-12 and university building electrical, lighting and low voltage systems, nothing in my career ever informed me of my humanity like drumming with friends on weekends, going on amazing, magical, mystical rhythmic journeys.
I loved this and noticed you changed the music at the end. More of this please.
Sometimes I have wondered if study of peak oil, collapse, social breakdown, pollution, climate breakdown, econcomic unravelling are all forms of addiction and suffering. We know we should live with less, but we spend more hours than most contemplating the loss of what we have. Are we on the right path? Of course, with this knowledge we are preparing, but have we been until now by way of ignorance arrested?
I think I speak for everyone when I say that Alexandre has phenomenal hair.
🙂
This has been the best talk. It felt like he was speaking directly to my soul.
That 30,000 year old bone flute was built in tune to the human voice. 0_o
Absolutely what everyone needs to hear and learn! Thank you, Nate for having Alexandre on! You could have multiple episodes with Alexandre for sure! As for music, I play multiple musical instruments as well as am someone that has experienced transcendent states through sound and music! May I also recommend something called "Holotropic Breathwork" which is a form of therapy developed by Dr. Stanislav Grof a Psychiatrist that is one of the principal developers of Transpersonal Psychology and one the earliest people to work with Psychedelics with patients. Holotropic Breathwork combines Breathing and Music and Art. Music is a very important and integral part of the experience while breathing. I've experienced it many times and recommend it to anyone that has experienced traumas and/or is interested in deeper levels of the mind/body connection!
We actually need to have small sustainable gardening education of being at one with our ecosystems not poison it with chemicals into our soils as like our Neanderthal did and enlighten each other with joy of not needing but giving in love of music grow lung foods and enlightening those who are needing of support to learn in trust of a empathetic Love for all living things and challenges 🕊🌏😇💖
In regards to the sound healing benefits of the ducks and chickens, I think another large part of the benefits is that similar sounds are coming from many directions which allows our minds to feel enveloped in a world as a kind of calibration and attunement. We are often lacking a lot of directional data from sound/music. Or overwhelmed by a variety of sounds in a city. I get this effect when listening to the leaves ruffle through the wind when lying under a tree or from being surrounded by frogs or crickets. Those are more precisely and subtle sounds that I feel begin to paint a sonic landscape and get us out of the visual realm. Lastly as a musician studying Cognitive Systems Theory and Process Philosophy it would seem that visuals are representational (left brain projections) whereas music/sound is a processual.
Visuals in our modern culture are generally representational, but not necessarily. What most laypeople call "abstract", as in "abstract expressionism" is actually non-representational, and one of the most interesting art exhibits I ever visited was an exhibit of "concrete" art. Composition, facture, color, and other factors of visual ethos in fact do affect pathos. Even representational artists understand that the most important aspects are not found in the depicted narrative.
@@robinschaufler444 ahh fair, thanks for the response
The second one was Harry Potter for me, might be the minor keys?
Those chimes made me get goosbumps
Way cool pod today, Me & the Goats dig it Wild days here Little Ducklings popping lol 15 little Indian runners so fare & many more about 15 Have a great day all well here in S.OR .You Can Feel the Rhythm of Space & Time on a Glass Lake No Moon Just clear Sky & Stars Crater Lake ?
💚✌️
Thank you, Alexander, for the valuable work you contribute to the field and for your integrity. This was the best podcast I’ve listened to in a long time, and it’s worth revisiting again and again to fully absorb the wisdom shared. Alexander masterfully blends neuroscience, music, physics, esotericism, and spirituality, and it’s truly inspiring to hear him unveil such profound knowledge. Thank you both for this gem-we are deeply grateful.
Wow, this one was so multi-dimensional and inspiring. Alexandre goes deep on many aspects of culture that need attention and deep curiosity. SOUND LEADS THE WAY!! SING EVERYDAY! This cast was so inspiring as a musician myself. Thanks so much Alexandre and Nate. May we seek out and Listen to master musicians, chant and purify the body and mind! Johnathan Goldman explores this realm deeply as well. Some of my favorite master musicians are Dhafer Youseff, Mike Love, Groundation, Bill Frisell, Brian Eno, Nils Frahm, Rakesh Chaurasia, Ali Akbar Kahn, Anoushka Shankar, Ali Farka Toure and so many more!!
Omg...This is your best one yet Nate...SOOO interesting, surprising, educational, awe and hope inspiring...PLEASE have Alexandre back soon...I am now going to his website to explore...Truly such a service you are performing for so many Nate...I would never have come across Alexandre even though I study, read, am curious, well educated, have the time, etc This is exactly what I needed to hear at this point in time and at this point in my life...I am SO grateful to both you and Alexandre...💙
I've been to many concerts in 70's or 80's. But one of the most moving is Jordi Savall, he plays medieval music with musicians from around the world, mainly in cathedrals around Europe with no amplification. It's incredible, and moving.
Here's a video I made to relax with a kaleidoscopic underwater environment.
The music was made in an interesting way: I created a piano track and recorded 2 string tracks based on the piano track but that were unaware of each other and then muted the piano:
th-cam.com/video/0mThQXFhdEg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=HMMJJtJnX2acklOr
[I was intermittently listening to this while also reading Federico Campagna's Technic and Magic, and I ran into this excerpt which was eerily appropriate]
"Drawing on its Latin etymology, per-sonar, a 'person' is just the first point through which the ineffable resounds"
I really wasn't expecting this topic would appear on your podcast Nate. I've listened to the whole thing and what Alexandre is talking about here totally validates what I've been doing the last few years. Which is something I call Listening Meditation. Thank so much Nate and Alexandre! Fantastic!
Thank you from my heart, Nate and Alexandre, for this exchange.
Spectacular!
thanks Nate... invaluable informations
This dud dismisses the claim that Ptolemy Philadelphus commissioned the Septuagint as " legendary" but leaves out that there has hardly been a bigger patron of literary works them this particular Ptolemy. Some say he ordered all manuscripts entering Egypt to have been confiscated and copies were returned in guise of originals.
The same Ptolemy has his name inscribed on Ashoka's edict as being the willing recipient of Buddhist missionaries. Max Muller and several learned Jewish scholars claim the first legend of King Solomon deciding the true mother claiment was lifted from a Buddhist jataka.
1. Sound and music have been used by humans for thousands of years for healing, spiritual practices, and altering consciousness. Ancient cultures understood the power of sound and resonance better than modern Western society.
2. Western music has deviated from "true harmony" based on natural harmonic series. This happened around the 11th-12th centuries with the development of equal temperament tuning. While still powerful, Western music may be less impactful on human consciousness and healing than music aligned with natural harmonics.
3. Sound meditation and sound healing practices using instruments like singing bowls, gongs, and overtone singing can have profound effects on quieting the mind, reducing stress, and promoting healing. The physical vibrations and harmonics impact the body and brain.
4. Entrainment - how music and sound affect our physiology and mental state - is a powerful force that shapes our experiences, from films to religious services to advertising. We are constantly being entrained by sounds around us.
5. Many modern health issues stem from trauma, stress, and disconnection from our true nature. Sound and music practices, along with meditation, can help heal trauma and reconnect us to ourselves.
6. Personal healing through sound, music and other practices could have wider societal impacts if more people, especially those in positions of power, engaged in these practices. Collective healing could potentially address larger societal issues.
7. The speaker advocates for a more holistic approach integrating science, spirituality, and ancient wisdom to address human and planetary challenges. He suggests our pain and destructive behaviors may stem from a collective trauma in humanity's past.
8. For individuals, cultivating curiosity, openness to new experiences, and practices like sound meditation could be beneficial for personal growth and healing. This is especially important for young people.
Sound and music are powerful but underutilized tools for individual and collective healing, with potential relevance to addressing larger societal and environmental challenges.
If I listen to music while playing chess, I play much worse! If it's music with vocals, then it's a total disaster. This is a very interesting phenomenon for me, because I calmly read, write and work while listening to music.
Learn to play an instrument, especially instruments where you can play chords especially stringed instruments. If you think ringing a bowl is exciting, wait until you experience impovising in a jam session with players who really know their stuff. Its becomming a smaller and smaller community of folks who learn and put in the work because they can type notes on a computer and basically build music like player pianos but are helpless in jamming it out. So many people can only watch and wish they could sit in. They think because they didn't start as kids it's too late. I've seen folks start in their 40s and make amazing progress. Its the most satisfying thing in my life. I can play a guitar or piano just by looking at the fretboard or keyboard and hear the notes in my head.
I think that the detour that music in europe took in the 11th/12th centuries might be the root explanation as to why WEIRD people are so messed up, and has thus brought the world to its present state of peril.
This interview was mind blowing, thank you so much!
I am going to pay much more attention to what I listen to and how I listen.
super ambitious from Nate and I was surprised by how great the result was. Thank you. It's not something I would normally seek out at all.
Good overview. There is a microtonal piano that was built called “the fluid piano” which allows for microtonal scales, beautiful sound.
A clear explanation, thank you 🌹
Impressive. Even so, Bach is probably highest of all, so the rest may need some adjusting.
It’s been a while. Glad to hear this team of amazing humans in this interview. ❤
Walking in our forest with birds singing. The second tune was water, a lake, soft rain. Yet he reminds me of back in the seventies they cut music to save money and mathematics suffered.
This was such a fantastic conversation that weaves together so many strands. Thank you so much, and looking forward to part 2 ;)
2:19:52 This is the exact sound I hear sometimes (in the air?) when I sit silently and focus only on listening to air. Just a gentler version.
This episode keeps coming back to me in my brain. I listened to it on a car ride from Oregon to California.
The helmoltz frequencies that he used in two tone singing are actually the western scale. There's a lot of bais against western scales unfortunately.
It is indeed a mystery the making tolerable that which should be intolerable. There is a reason for pain and a value to suffering and a value to making others suffer as well.
This is the knowledge we resist not analgesia.
My goodness Nate please at least first thing in the morning be at peace in meditation even if it’s with your animals 💖😇
Thank you for this conversation ❤️. I would like to hear more 😊.
One good thing about music; when it hits you'll feel no pain, so hit me with music!
I ring my dogs ceramic bowls together at their feeding time to let them know that it is time to eat. I have to be careful when washing the bowls to not let them clink together or I have to give them food, otherwise they are inconsolable.
On first listen, at the second note from the second set of chimes, I found myself sobbing for the rest of the demo.
Lmaooo
Obviously your self imposed sabbatical trip to India seems to have had quite an effect on you Nate, but I’m not sure where Alexandre Tannous fits into the ideology of “The Great Simplification”. Alexandre Tannous’s talents are not unique, in the 70 and 80’s I studied Transcendental Meditation (TM) of the form taught by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. At a group meditation one weekend I met Muz Murray, a very charismatic young man, who taught sound (shouting) yoga and stress relief through mass hypnotism (it was the first and last time I’ve ever been hypnotised). Muz Murray is now known as Ramana Baba in India, an internationally recognised spiritual teacher, mystic and Mantra Yogi, maybe check him out. Referring back to TM they had political ideology it ran under the name of “The Natural Law Party” I’m just wondering if this is maybe the direction you now see The Great Simplification” involving itself in🤔
No. I just learned new things. And I think music/resonance are a basic practice we’ve forgotten. This is one of a thousand themes relevant to the great simplification 🙏❤️🌎
Awesome conversation! I really appreciated the information about entrainment. I had understood that more narrowly in relationship to rhythm but hearing this made me think of it more broadly. The comparison of empirical knowledge versus knowledge through gnosis was fascinating too.
I felt a minor objection to hearing equal temperament talked about as a “degrading” of harmony. To me it is another system of harmony, and while it is not directly derived from the overtone series, it allows for a different kind of flexibility and affordances through music. Just intonation gives you pure intervals, but if you stray out of key, you get way out of tune. Equal temperament compromises the pure interval ratios, but it allows you to play with harmony in new ways like freely moving keys. That’s still harmony and it’s not wrong. You can clearly make emotionally resonant music using equal temperament. There are powerful things harmony can do when you using contrasting keys. Just look at Beethoven, Coltrane, Pixinguinha, or The Beatles to name a few. Music is complex and different kinds of music value different things and expresses itself differently. All that said, equal temperament has become the dominant system of harmony in the west and most people don’t know it’s not the only way to go. Glad to see you sharing the harmony we get from the overtone series!
Also casting my vote for Ted Gioia as a potential guest perhaps for a future round table.
He’s a music writer and historian with a phenomenal breadth of knowledge about history and culture. For anyone interested, he’s got an incredible Substack or here’s him talking about some of the history of music used to produce altered states of mind.
th-cam.com/video/IQpeKZE8iXA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=qOcKyDL81wK0mD5I
Brian Eno! 👌👋🤘 Nate, check out "O Yuki Conjugate". They're in the same vein as Eno.
This is essential for mental health
So profound. Thank you so much for sharing this.
Thank you Nate and Alexandre. The current average song or music taste in the US is telling of where we are as a culture. It feels very alienating.
Thanks Alexandre 💜♪♫*¨*•.¸¸ ॐ
Thank you so very much ❤️❤️❤️🙏🙏🙏
Walker Jason Lee Scott Lopez Mark
It's alllll about nature ❤ great education
Playing an instrument is fabulous for trauma.
That was awesome Nate please have him back
1:30 can I have brass bowl bicycle bell ?🙂
I've not watched this video for the 6 days it's been in my feed and I will continue to not watch it.
Same here. But then I started watching it and got hooked.
Seen Māori do kapa haka you tube it magic healing power😊
Tāonga puhoro all have very special resonance.
To much god talk. I'm out.
Try skipping to the conversation about harmony
Bring Ervin Lazlo
"Beautiful"
❤❤❤❤❤❤
Love this !
Thank you
The first chimes Alexandre played, brought my "energy" up. The second chimes brought some sadness, and questions. I cannot stress this enough: "Listen in the non-doing state. Listen without trying to label things". To me, this is where the journey is. and, I disagree: You can know something without measuring it. Listen to sitar player Ravi Shankar: Raga Bhimpalasi💖
E
Yes am watching your incredibly heartfelt warming podcast now Nate and funnily enough I have of late have discovered so much throw my Love of music in so many ways Whether it’s to dance by myself to a particular song in the falling in Love of someone or through the loss of grief of loosing someone close
I actually came upon by accident with Peter Pringle and he brings emotions of past ancient music of voice and renditions of old instruments into the closet of how different cultures sang in this period Peter researches deeply with learning in the true pitch of how these ancient worlds sang
Very mesmerising in need ❤️
I got so over excited in trying to listen to beautiful inspirational podcast last night that I lost myself into playing my Bongos Having a couple of red vinos didn’t help lol but am watching this sober second time round 💃🪘🥰💖
Sound can act as a painkiller. To date we do not have music sufficiently powerful enough to act as a practical weapon. 👂🧠👂
I've been listening to a lot of your stuff, and this has resonated with me more than just about anything. Thank you for doing this
I just listened to the two different chimes. The first one spoke to me as clarity in thought while the second suggested a crowding that I found disconcerting.
Nate, this is your best episode ever. Can't wait for part 2 ✨
Great information! I'm excited to know more!
Best podcast to date !!
Love this!