At the age of 75 I am utterly stunned by the parallels between Fritjof Capra's intellectual epiphanies and my own. I have never written a book, and I have only a layman's grasp of quantum physics, but beyond that our evolving grasp of the human predicament has been quite similar. Strikingly so. In recent years I have often wondered If my own mental faculties were diminishing, especially in light of recent events and the current trajectory of the human species and American domestic and global politics. I am NOT crazy! But I fear the world has gone mad.
As a young man I was to busy earning a living to provide for my family to focus pacifically of the changes going on. I'm in my late 60s now and it boggles my mind how I missed it? At least it comforts me I'm not alone thinking that whole World went crazy in a short period of time...
@@steveo5295Many people are like that and you can’t blame them. They have to work very hard to make it through for themselves and for their family. They don’t have the luxury of time to philosophise about life and to contemplate the future. I was always a bit different and always questioning what was going on. I think all my lifetime the world is mad but more recently things are getting quite a bit worse.
I don't comment on your channel often (altho I do watch) but Nate, you are amazing. I love so many of your ideas and wonderful guests. My god, if only ppl like you guys ran our world. Please don't stop. Many thanks for all that you do.
I read The Tao of Physics about 45 years ago and was blown away by it, I haven't heard anything about Capra in a long time because I obviously wasn't looking. I was so so thrilled to be sent the link to this interview by my daughter who said she thought I would like it. Boy, did I ever!! The interview is Wonderful!! Fits exactly with my thinking and reading and writing now. I listened to it twice and have started reading The Systems View of Life. Thank you, Nate. I just subscribed. I've now been sent links to your show by several people so it's clear that I need to get on board. Looking forward to your next show!!
Amazing- Fritjof Capra. I read his book The Tao of physics over 30 years ago. And then went on to get a degree in physics. was a high school scienceteacher and now I'm in acupuncture School. Wow it's so great to hear him speak.
His book is also one of the reasons I went to study physics, although I am a bit more standard worker, working in Hydrogen engineering other than acupuncture haha but never forgot the concepts of Wu Wei and how spiritual our science can be!
The Turning Point was a one of the book that fundamentally affected way I see the universe. Many of the authors discussed by Capra also had a profound effect on me: Gregory Bateson, Hazel Henderson, Maturana and Varela. I first came across many of them in my grad work in studies of the future at the University of Houston, Clear Lake. Thank you for the interview.
Fritjof's ideas and writings have been an inspiration for years now. One day I hope to attend one of his courses. Thanks for inviting this fantastic guest to your channel for a discussion.
Wisdom comes not by unhinging our emotional selves from a siloed existence, but by immersing ourselves in multidisciplinary learning and by not being so full of our own cleverness that we allow our barriers fall away and gain fulfillment by working and joining with others and recognising that fact. We are not apart from, but a part of the greater whole of nature.
Mind blown again! Its so exciting and makes good sense to see Capra here. I've been following him since he founded the Elmwood Institute in Berkeley, 1984. That's 40 years. What was radical then was his ability to get people from across a wide variety of disciplines to discuss and explore and exchange knowledge with one another. A great eclectic meeting of minds not easily or frequently accessed prior to the internet. Bravo!!!
Beautiful wide ranging conversation with Fritjof Capra! Hanging on every word. I have encountered Fritjof's writings in bits and pieces over the years, but never heard him speak. Lucid, precisely spoken explanations not cluttered with useless rhetoric. Your questions Nate are precise and relevant. One the most enlightening podcast interviews I've encountered of late. Thank you Nate and Fritjof 🙏
I studied with Fritjof at Schumacher college as he was publishing his book the web of life in 1996. It was such an honor. Moving societal values takes a long time. Having the hippie mindset now be our elders and the people with power in government, gives me a glimmer of hope. The youth will always push for a better future as they are not burdened by such silly things as mortgages… But knowing that we are all connected to each other and the planet is what will make the difference. Be ok with less convenience and work towards living locally.
Great interview with Fritjof Nate🙏. Thank you for bring in him to the discussion. We missed the opportunity to turn our civilization back in the 60’s/ 70’s for sure.
This is great!!! Fritjof Capra has been a huge influence on my journey!! I lived in the Land of Enchantment AKA New Mexico in the late 60's early 70's So much consciousness was rising back then - 50 plus years later I am still on the Bus!! As Western society and Industrial Corporate Capitalism begins to collapse it is minds like Fritjof and yourself that will inform the Deep Adaptation necessary for Humans of the Eairth to continue. Thank you Nate for bringing us this wonderful conversation!!
In Fritjof Capra’s book “The Turning Point”, I found mention of J Krishnamurti and that was a turning point in my quest for wisdom that led to the understanding of awareness in daily living which fundamentally altered my personal life as a carer of a family member who was labelled paranoid schizophrenic.
Ideally, this would be ideal, yet, there appears to be a flaw in this belief. I have no idea where it's incomplete and I'm not smart enough to know. Maybe ask Fritjof Capra; he would be the teacher.
"The Turning Point" has changed my perspective of world view when I first read it, when I was 19. Now I'm 45 and I am still recommending it for everybody to read it before we can have several conversations. Kind of "If you haven't read it already, you are far behind, babe! You kind of don't get the world". Anyone of you, if you haven't read it yet, DO IT! Awesome work.
It's also possible "to get it" from living life experientially will personally processing all one's experiences and world observations. I never read that book, nor have I heard of it. If only there were such a book for "love" relationships. One partner is often far ahead of the other.
Capra is one of the few scientists and thinkers who recognized very early the lack - and the need - for ecological literacy in our society. It remains marginalized and largely voluntary within education systems today as we now confront what you call the 'polycrisis' - and educators who pay any attention to the state of the world call climate change and biodiversity loss. Very few people discuss the need for general ecological education to understand how we might protect the world we depend on for our survival. All students should be taught ecology and thinking in systems. But politically, it goes in direct opposition to the neoliberal market fundamentalist economy we are forced to live in - and be educated in - with perpetual growth as our collective goal. We need to be educated to be aware of that problem in order to work on it.
Very worthwhile interview. I remember Capra being an important figure back in the late sixties and seventies, but didn't then understand what his message was. Your interview with him fills that gap. I agree with just about everything he had to say. But like just about all the thinkers trained in physical science that you interview, he neglects the humanities. Yes, we need to know the general principles of all life systems, but we also need to know specifically how human life systems operate and the humanities are a window on that which is more revealing, I think, than the so-called social sciences.
One of the worthwhile hours I spent today. Thank you so much for this conversation. “Tao of Physics“ certainly changed my perspective. Keep up with your good work. Thanks to the AI algorithm that threw this at me today.
Nate like many here I have been a systems thinker for many years catalyzed by frijof's tao of physics- but he is a superbly elusive or reluctant public figure SO GOOD to see and hear him with you. A delight listening to you two evolve your connection Thankyou.
Excellent, and I thank you for the memo. This TH-cam is one I will share widely. Earthman since 1957, here for the innocent since 1967. (when I first heard about Thylacine, Passenger Pigeon etc,..
Listening for the second time. Thank you for speaking with these beautiful thinkers. I now again feel less isolated, even though I am living surrounded by climate change deniers. Two years to go before I - hopefully. - move into Witchcliffe Eco Village, Western Australia and begin to share time with kindred souls. X
Hi Fritjof , i read your book uncommon wisdom , and i learned so much from it particularly at that time of my life , thankyou so much , i will like before watching , you are a legend imo .
Thank you for this interview Nate! My mother died 5 years ago She had Mr. Capra's books. This interview has been so wonderful---superb and high quality.
Great session, Nate and Fritjof! BTW, 1969 was profound experience the connectivity of life, too. It involved psychedelics at what may have been too tender of an age in terms of brain development and wisdom. I was only 15. Fortunately, in 11th grade our school offered a choice for a science credit of either Ecology or Chemistry. I took Ecology and it changed my life goals, blending with the connectivity experience in terms of academic interests and activism (Earth Day, for example). Much to the angst of my parents, the premature awakening led me to drop out of high school to quell a Quixotic goal of experiencing all the biomes of North America. I must remind all that we have the wicked problem of our own human numbers, and it dwarfs economic growth. People are already dying from hunger and the fight for lands globally are obvious. The superpowers are acting like children, especially the USA, and that must evolve significantly towards peace and collaboration soon, as we are on the precipice of WW3.
Perfect Timing Nate and in Awe of Fritjof’s describing our Conscious and Subconscious state of mind I myself have on numerous occasions been as he puts it In the Flow or In the Zone Whether it’s walking along the beach and being so mesmerised by the rhythm curling of the pounding waves or even when I used to Flowing mind state while shingle surfing on my old Dirtbike down a shingle riverbed I felt so relaxed a as if I was Flying Also doing sculptures has a profound creative effect for me too etc… As I mentioned before reading Dr James Dotys first book called Into The Magic Shop also mentions Consciousness Meditation and Manifesting An incredibly wonderful book of the Power of Love ❤
I particularly love his strategy of collaborative dialogues to learn about all the related fields. I have done that instinctively too, and it's so satisfying. I guess that's your strategy too, Nate! Our world is so complex - we need this approach. I'm convening processes and roundtables towards civilizational shift. Your podcast is a huge resource.
It’s wonderful to hear yet another OG on systems thinking and connectedness. Thank you Nate, as always, for your creative thinking and persistence in seeking such guests. I’m applying to the Capra Course so I can broaden and enrich my thinking and, hopefully, integrate it into my modest community- building efforts in my little (but interconnected) pocket of the world.
TRUE!!! I have really felt less alone watching it (not that I feel "lonely", i don't, but I don't feel most people "get me", and it can be very frustrating sometimes...). Fact is, every time I try to talk about a planetary consciousness ( or even interplanetary consciousness) people reacted as if I was telling them I saw an E. T. or an UFO. And it was really not the case (although I believe they may exist, despite not believing any human has already seen one... yet.). Thanks, boys! 🥰
Good morning Nate and Fritjof Wellbeing indeed. Think we need to re think Adam Smith's thinking. Lots of thinking!😀 Thank you for this shared conversation. Again for me sanity sensemaking brain gym. Truly grateful. 💜
Amazing amazing amazing. Perhaps my favorite episode of all. As someone straddling science & spirituality - ecology, yoga, tantra plus movement & nervous system sciences - it’s all pointing to the same thing: relationships and flows between them- networks inherently regenerative, creative & intelligent. Hearing him speak to the power of shifts in consciousness resonates deeply. Thank you Nate!
listen to Mr Capra talking i felt reminded to Mr. Lovelock‘s Gaia theory - shortly after he mentioned Mrs Lyn Margulis, who is the co founder of the Gaia theory. He also reminds me of Mr. Ophuls background of far eastern practices culminating in „Buddha takes no prisoners“. Enlightening stuff this is! Gratitude!
The film Mindwalk (1990) changed my life when I was very young. It is based on Capra's book The Turning Point. Psychedelics came later, along with literature, philosophy, and poetry and I've never been able to capitulate to our culture. My psyche had cast it's vote.
Before watching, I want to say that I was expecting this interview for a while I think you are the best in the field to interview to interview Capra Thanks a lot for bringing such a great hosts all the time
Absolutely agree had same thought and wondered if Capra and Lovelock met…but glad to know he knew Margulis…and to read these comments of other people whose lives have been influenced by Capra’s work. I keep hoping for more signs of the Turning Point.
I bought it forty years ago, and The Tao of Physics set me on a journey which continues. I owe Dr Capra more than I can say, I just hunted the book down and will read it again. I have become interested in the ancient teaching that consciousness, energy and matter are aspects of the same thing, that consciousness facilitates the transformation of energy into matter, and that consciousness itself is fundamental. Since matter is derived from consciousness, there is sentience in all matter, relative to its situation. I´d like to see if the Tao resonates with this.
Awesome episode! I noticed a couple of your guests are saying to get money out of politics. I think that’s an important major step. I worry tho that many in our society would stop listening to politicians if they weren’t blatantly corrupt. A lot of people still live in the old worldview where money and technology are everything. I think politicians should have to be barred from all commercial activity, posses no currency, be barred from land ownership, and be practicing ascetics.
Nate, he has so much to offer in this discussion needs to go so much and 20th to discuss how we need to develop biological networks and natural networks feel like you barely scratch the surface of everything he has to offer. Maybe you need to have them back as quickly as possible this is such a critical piece of the puzzle that we need to explore.
When Capra refers to the huge swings he’s witnessed in just the last fifty years, it’s very Hegelian. We grapple, almost violently shifting from one extreme to another, all the while struggling to embrace the nuanced wisdom of ‘the middle way’ (recognising that is used in different ways across time a philosophical contexts).
I connected with this podcast, which is becoming more rear the older I become. Finding connectivity with others is nearly impossible, so this is proof for me it's not as bad as I thought...
I wrote a lot of letters to The Economist (Cheap Cloud) about their attachment to economic growth. Kate Raworth's "Donut Economics" is a good systems view of a balanced economy.
People are treating their children like the farmers treat the cattle and chickens in CAFOS, packed in and medicated, industrialized and streamlined for economical models
Delightful! Thanks Nate. I read TToP as a sprout in the 80s - a elegant bridge between Alan Watts' "The Book" (wishy-washy fun) and Feynman's "QED" -just-calculate.
Problem with genetic change and evolution is that people interpret "Random" as "Rare" and "Mutation" as some noticeable difference that either helps or hinders the individual. Random = no noticeable pattern. It's all over the place. Mutation = incorrect copying of the DNA. It doesn't have to be different enough to be noticeable. With one mutation per day (that's one mutation for every 2 trillion copies), it would take 55 years for your body to mess up once on every one of your 20,000 genes. There's up to 300 million sperm in one ejaculation. Most likely, there's many mutations in every ejaculation. Often and random mutations keep the variation in a species. Without mutations, species variation would quickly decrease under stable natural selection conditions. Changes in environmental conditions (aka. natural selection) causes a species to evolve and/or split into one or more different species.
I greatly enjoyed this conversation. I certainly would not count on billionaires having a change of heart. But I'm going to try doing a little more meditation & writing myself.
"Where are the Gandhi's today?"... as an Indian, i can say that talkers/thinkers are put on pedestals instead of the doers getting dirty in the work to change the systems
I've got his first two books, The Tao of Physics and The Turning Point. It is incredible how old they are, yet the learnings are still immeasurable. Maybe the best author to introduce people to real Systems thinking, not this modern systematic, bullet points thinking.
Interconnectiveness is the reality. Our economic reality doesn’t reflect physical reality. It’s gross consumption, economic efficiency and private ownership. What’s missing is the restorative and life giving element.
Great show. Listening to this my weird mind started thinking, you ought to have best selling author Margaret Atwood on your show. Her Madd Adam trilogy is a distopian look at the poly-crisis. Well, distopian, depending on your perspective. A group of greenies manages to survive a global pandemic by integrating an ecological religion, practical survival skills, and science into their daily lives. It is in a fantasy, sci-fi genre, but also a satire of our present corporate culture of growth at any cost.
Interesting, as a system thinker, I agree with this, wealth is about power and until they change their view of potential growth, the earth will eventually force change...
Just get constantly exposed to all kinds of different topics/subjects/people and their opinions, make sure to cultivate a general curiousity about anything from A to Z and get at least basic understanding in all these different areas and arenas, even intellectually challenging ones... make sure to always pause in between, take sufficient time to take in the input, reflect upon it, introspect and think about all these.. try to find similarities, connect the dots, build & enhance your mental model and afterwards try to apply new ideas incoming regularly on that mental model to further enhance/refine/shape it... and then go out again and repeat the same over and over again --> this is how anyone can become a systems thinker naturally and inherently and sees the environment/world/universe as what it is..
There are studies that show that cities actually have a wider variety of birds than suburbs! I live in a city and iMerlin has detected dozens of birds during my walks in nearby parks. Isn’t that something! Very counterintuitive.
Fantastic conversation! thanks, Nate 30:00 The work of Michael Levin shows that this understanding of biological development is still too limited. There are lots of things happening that cannot be understood in terms of the genome. His team is demonstrating this experimentally and has good evidence (e.g. two-headed planaria) that the environment is an essential aspect of the development of the organism, not simply a canvas the gene expresses itself onto.
I love what Capra has said about qualities of "aliveness" (was it: the dissolution of differentiation? I've got to go back and take some notes on that).
At 34:00 Nate asks, "So is it possible that we could have culture wide or even in pockets such a radical shift in perception as you describe in the system's view of life." The counterculture had these radical shifts in perception and was well on the way to building this new world from 1966-1970. I know this because I was part of it. What happened was that federal, state and local governments - from Nixon on down - adopted an integrated campaign of quashing this new world. The Army, National Guard, state troopers and every police force in the country crushed us into bloody little hippie radical meatballs. Some of us surived intact; others sold out and became willing accomplices in the System; while others deteriorated into shattered husks that still live under bridges and in vacant lots. Here's a little advice for young activists and others who are still trying to build community. Be careful. Develop the mental toughness to be resilient. Most of all, don't quit.
Erm... I don't always think "in language". Sometimes I actually have some difficulties in finding the words to express to another person what I was thinking. So I believe thoughts are abstract (i feel mine as "clouds", as "visualizations", I could say, but not with words at first). Then I need to organize my thoughts to "translate" them into words if I want to write them, or talk about them to another person. This is specifically a problem I have with Wittgenstein (although I love his "idea streaming" - term that in my head looked like something as a river of words gushing down from the image of his face, and it took me about some time to come up with words to put it to a term). I don't think with language at first. This is a second moment of the process.
Thank you for the beautiful content. Remember the rough quote to the effect that liberal democracy rides on the back of carbon pulse. Do you think this type of academia, research also rides on it too? But for it, don't you think humans will be too busy working away of our lives without philosophizing too much?
At the age of 75 I am utterly stunned by the parallels between Fritjof Capra's intellectual epiphanies and my own. I have never written a book, and I have only a layman's grasp of quantum physics, but beyond that our evolving grasp of the human predicament has been quite similar. Strikingly so. In recent years I have often wondered If my own mental faculties were diminishing, especially in light of recent events and the current trajectory of the human species and American domestic and global politics. I am NOT crazy! But I fear the world has gone mad.
“A sane person to an insane society must appear insane.”
― Kurt Vonnegut
@@Slick-666"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
-- Jiddu Krishnamurthy
As a young man I was to busy earning a living to provide for my family to focus pacifically of the changes going on. I'm in my late 60s now and it boggles my mind how I missed it? At least it comforts me I'm not alone thinking that whole World went crazy in a short period of time...
I have been questioning my sanity too, and I am only sixty.
@@steveo5295Many people are like that and you can’t blame them. They have to work very hard to make it through for themselves and for their family. They don’t have the luxury of time to philosophise about life and to contemplate the future. I was always a bit different and always questioning what was going on. I think all my lifetime the world is mad but more recently things are getting quite a bit worse.
I don't comment on your channel often (altho I do watch) but Nate, you are amazing. I love so many of your ideas and wonderful guests. My god, if only ppl like you guys ran our world. Please don't stop. Many thanks for all that you do.
I read The Tao of Physics about 45 years ago and was blown away by it, I haven't heard anything about Capra in a long time because I obviously wasn't looking. I was so so thrilled to be sent the link to this interview by my daughter who said she thought I would like it. Boy, did I ever!! The interview is Wonderful!! Fits exactly with my thinking and reading and writing now. I listened to it twice and have started reading The Systems View of Life. Thank you, Nate. I just subscribed. I've now been sent links to your show by several people so it's clear that I need to get on board. Looking forward to your next show!!
Fritjof Capra and his book The Tao of Physics was my inspiration for many years. I'm so delighted to see him here. Thank you both so much.
Amazing- Fritjof Capra. I read his book The Tao of physics over 30 years ago. And then went on to get a degree in physics. was a high school scienceteacher and now I'm in acupuncture School. Wow it's so great to hear him speak.
His book is also one of the reasons I went to study physics, although I am a bit more standard worker, working in Hydrogen engineering other than acupuncture haha but never forgot the concepts of Wu Wei and how spiritual our science can be!
@@from_el_douradoWoo Wei and Woo Woo 😂
Great interview. Heartwarming to hear about that feeling of spiritual kinship. These are the best parts of humanity.
Yes, да, ja, tak, ano, si ,Wii, zúnquedi
Great subject, great guest, great host. Thanks for doing this.
I remember reading him as a young physics student in the late 80s. Amazing how what was once very exotic to me became gradually foundational.
"The subatomic world cannot be described in terms of isolated objects, but is an interconnected web of relationships." 🎯
The Turning Point was a one of the book that fundamentally affected way I see the universe. Many of the authors discussed by Capra also had a profound effect on me: Gregory Bateson, Hazel Henderson, Maturana and Varela. I first came across many of them in my grad work in studies of the future at the University of Houston, Clear Lake. Thank you for the interview.
Fritjof's ideas and writings have been an inspiration for years now. One day I hope to attend one of his courses. Thanks for inviting this fantastic guest to your channel for a discussion.
Same here….
I love these conversations ... the depth of the knowledge and wisdom is enriching to one's soul.
Surprisingly, I just realized that I have been channeling Fritjof Capra for the last 50 years...; ). An amazing interview, Thank you Nate.
Wisdom comes not by unhinging our emotional selves from a siloed existence, but by immersing ourselves in multidisciplinary learning and by not being so full of our own cleverness that we allow our barriers fall away and gain fulfillment by working and joining with others and recognising that fact. We are not apart from, but a part of the greater whole of nature.
Mind blown again! Its so exciting and makes good sense to see Capra here. I've been following him since he founded the Elmwood Institute in Berkeley, 1984. That's 40 years. What was radical then was his ability to get people from across a wide variety of disciplines to discuss and explore and exchange knowledge with one another. A great eclectic meeting of minds not easily or frequently accessed prior to the internet. Bravo!!!
Amazing conversation. Thank you so much for sharing.
What an awesome conversation! Thank you
Beautiful wide ranging conversation with Fritjof Capra! Hanging on every word. I have encountered Fritjof's writings in bits and pieces over the years, but never heard him speak. Lucid, precisely spoken explanations not cluttered with useless rhetoric. Your questions Nate are precise and relevant. One the most enlightening podcast interviews I've encountered of late. Thank you Nate and Fritjof 🙏
I studied with Fritjof at Schumacher college as he was publishing his book the web of life in 1996. It was such an honor.
Moving societal values takes a long time. Having the hippie mindset now be our elders and the people with power in government, gives me a glimmer of hope. The youth will always push for a better future as they are not burdened by such silly things as mortgages…
But knowing that we are all connected to each other and the planet is what will make the difference.
Be ok with less convenience and work towards living locally.
In just 50 years it's quite staggering. I love learning from our elders. Thank you gentlemen ❤❤
Great interview with Fritjof Nate🙏. Thank you for bring in him to the discussion. We missed the opportunity to turn our civilization back in the 60’s/ 70’s for sure.
This is great!!! Fritjof Capra has been a huge influence on my journey!! I lived in the Land of Enchantment AKA New Mexico in the late 60's early 70's So much consciousness was rising back then - 50 plus years later I am still on the Bus!! As Western society and Industrial Corporate Capitalism begins to collapse it is minds like Fritjof and yourself that will inform the Deep Adaptation necessary for Humans of the Eairth to continue. Thank you Nate for bringing us this wonderful conversation!!
What bus? Bozo’s or…
In Fritjof Capra’s book “The Turning Point”, I found mention of J Krishnamurti and that was a turning point in my quest for wisdom that led to the understanding of awareness in daily living which fundamentally altered my personal life as a carer of a family member who was labelled paranoid schizophrenic.
Much inspiring. Looking forward to starting the Capra course 🙂 in order to colearn with a community.
Glad you are interviewing sages.
Interconnectedness, I believe that from the smallest atom to the entire universe is one. If we are one, we are interconnected and inseparable.
Ideally, this would be ideal, yet, there appears to be a flaw in this belief. I have no idea where it's incomplete and I'm not smart enough to know. Maybe ask Fritjof Capra; he would be the teacher.
"The Turning Point" has changed my perspective of world view when I first read it, when I was 19. Now I'm 45 and I am still recommending it for everybody to read it before we can have several conversations. Kind of "If you haven't read it already, you are far behind, babe! You kind of don't get the world". Anyone of you, if you haven't read it yet, DO IT! Awesome work.
It's also possible "to get it" from living life experientially will personally processing all one's experiences and world observations. I never read that book, nor have I heard of it. If only there were such a book for "love" relationships. One partner is often far ahead of the other.
1:01:35 Such a beautiful moment. Fritjof's delight is palpable. TGS doing its job in real time! 🥰
Capra is one of the few scientists and thinkers who recognized very early the lack - and the need - for ecological literacy in our society. It remains marginalized and largely voluntary within education systems today as we now confront what you call the 'polycrisis' - and educators who pay any attention to the state of the world call climate change and biodiversity loss. Very few people discuss the need for general ecological education to understand how we might protect the world we depend on for our survival. All students should be taught ecology and thinking in systems. But politically, it goes in direct opposition to the neoliberal market fundamentalist economy we are forced to live in - and be educated in - with perpetual growth as our collective goal. We need to be educated to be aware of that problem in order to work on it.
🎯💯
What an amazingly enjoyable positive meeting!
Nate that was fabulous, inspiring, informative and hopeful. What a great guest and human being!
beautiful and profound messages of WISDOM and INTERCONNECTEDNESS. Deep bow to you both Fritjof and Nate. So grateful.
Very worthwhile interview. I remember Capra being an important figure back in the late sixties and seventies, but didn't then understand what his message was. Your interview with him fills that gap. I agree with just about everything he had to say. But like just about all the thinkers trained in physical science that you interview, he neglects the humanities. Yes, we need to know the general principles of all life systems, but we also need to know specifically how human life systems operate and the humanities are a window on that which is more revealing, I think, than the so-called social sciences.
One of the worthwhile hours I spent today. Thank you so much for this conversation. “Tao of Physics“ certainly changed my perspective. Keep up with your good work. Thanks to the AI algorithm that threw this at me today.
Tha I you Mate and Fritjof.
I always learn from Fritjof whether in books, the course or interviews like this.
Nate like many here I have been a systems thinker for many years catalyzed by frijof's tao of physics- but he is a superbly elusive or reluctant public figure SO GOOD to see and hear him with you. A delight listening to you two evolve your connection Thankyou.
Spectacular interview. Fascinating, insightful and strangely uplifting.
Excellent, and I thank you for the memo.
This TH-cam is one I will share widely.
Earthman since 1957, here for the innocent since 1967. (when I first heard about Thylacine, Passenger Pigeon etc,..
Interesante como siempre fritjof...Cada vez + compactas y claras sus reflexiones/Afectos desde el Caribe estimado Profesor.
Listening for the second time. Thank you for speaking with these beautiful thinkers. I now again feel less isolated, even though I am living surrounded by climate change deniers. Two years to go before I - hopefully. - move into Witchcliffe Eco Village, Western Australia and begin to share time with kindred souls. X
Damn Nate you hit one out of the park with this guest. Holy Awesome 🤩
Hi Fritjof , i read your book uncommon wisdom , and i learned so much from it particularly at that time of my life , thankyou so much , i will like before watching , you are a legend imo .
Wonderful conversation, thank you. His point about embodied intelligence is such a crucial one.
Wow...I had goosebumps at the end...Thank you to both of you so much!!
Thank you for this interview Nate! My mother died 5 years ago
She had Mr. Capra's books. This interview has been so wonderful---superb and high quality.
Great session, Nate and Fritjof! BTW, 1969 was profound experience the connectivity of life, too. It involved psychedelics at what may have been too tender of an age in terms of brain development and wisdom. I was only 15. Fortunately, in 11th grade our school offered a choice for a science credit of either Ecology or Chemistry. I took Ecology and it changed my life goals, blending with the connectivity experience in terms of academic interests and activism (Earth Day, for example). Much to the angst of my parents, the premature awakening led me to drop out of high school to quell a Quixotic goal of experiencing all the biomes of North America.
I must remind all that we have the wicked problem of our own human numbers, and it dwarfs economic growth. People are already dying from hunger and the fight for lands globally are obvious. The superpowers are acting like children, especially the USA, and that must evolve significantly towards peace and collaboration soon, as we are on the precipice of WW3.
If land was used with awareness nu m bers could I crease. The nuclear family is nuts in so many ways
Perfect Timing Nate and in Awe of Fritjof’s describing our Conscious and Subconscious state of mind I myself have on numerous occasions been as he puts it In the Flow or In the Zone Whether it’s walking along the beach and being so mesmerised by the rhythm curling of the pounding waves or even when I used to Flowing mind state while shingle surfing on my old Dirtbike down a shingle riverbed I felt so relaxed a as if I was Flying Also doing sculptures has a profound creative effect for me too etc…
As I mentioned before reading Dr James Dotys first book called Into The Magic Shop also mentions Consciousness Meditation and Manifesting An incredibly wonderful book of the Power of Love ❤
I particularly love his strategy of collaborative dialogues to learn about all the related fields. I have done that instinctively too, and it's so satisfying. I guess that's your strategy too, Nate! Our world is so complex - we need this approach. I'm convening processes and roundtables towards civilizational shift. Your podcast is a huge resource.
It’s wonderful to hear yet another OG on systems thinking and connectedness. Thank you Nate, as always, for your creative thinking and persistence in seeking such guests. I’m applying to the Capra Course so I can broaden and enrich my thinking and, hopefully, integrate it into my modest community- building efforts in my little (but interconnected) pocket of the world.
OG😎
TRUE!!! I have really felt less alone watching it (not that I feel "lonely", i don't, but I don't feel most people "get me", and it can be very frustrating sometimes...). Fact is, every time I try to talk about a planetary consciousness ( or even interplanetary consciousness) people reacted as if I was telling them I saw an E. T. or an UFO. And it was really not the case (although I believe they may exist, despite not believing any human has already seen one... yet.). Thanks, boys! 🥰
Check back in another century. Surely, by then the human species will have evolved into a form with higher consciousness.
Good morning Nate and Fritjof
Wellbeing indeed. Think we need to re think Adam Smith's thinking.
Lots of thinking!😀
Thank you for this shared conversation.
Again for me sanity sensemaking brain gym.
Truly grateful.
💜
That was a good one Nate. I hope you you can have him back and perhaps strengthen those systems connections!
inspiring to see all the positive comments on this episode 🥰
What a wonderful, inspiring interview! Thank you!
Amazing amazing amazing. Perhaps my favorite episode of all. As someone straddling science & spirituality - ecology, yoga, tantra plus movement & nervous system sciences - it’s all pointing to the same thing: relationships and flows between them- networks inherently regenerative, creative & intelligent. Hearing him speak to the power of shifts in consciousness resonates deeply.
Thank you Nate!
Beautiful conversation.
Loved this! ♥
An absolutely wonderful conversation - bringing my long-ago learning and my current learning together.
Thank you so much Nate!
Awesome! Thanks a million!!!
So far, most profound conversation.
This is an excellent discussion and I look forward to more. Thank you!
listen to Mr Capra talking i felt reminded to Mr. Lovelock‘s Gaia theory - shortly after he mentioned Mrs Lyn Margulis, who is the co founder of the Gaia theory.
He also reminds me of Mr. Ophuls background of far eastern practices culminating in „Buddha takes no prisoners“. Enlightening stuff this is! Gratitude!
Brilliant!
Thank you for this interesting interview which I have been watching in night hours in Southern Germany. ❤
The “patterning instinct” co-authored with Jeremy Lent is my most inspiring book in the last 10 years
The film Mindwalk (1990) changed my life when I was very young. It is based on Capra's book The Turning Point. Psychedelics came later, along with literature, philosophy, and poetry and I've never been able to capitulate to our culture. My psyche had cast it's vote.
Thank you Nate. Thank you Professor Capra. Best wishes.
Before watching, I want to say that I was expecting this interview for a while
I think you are the best in the field to interview to interview Capra
Thanks a lot for bringing such a great hosts all the time
Absolutely agree had same thought and wondered if Capra and Lovelock met…but glad to know he knew Margulis…and to read these comments of other people whose lives have been influenced by Capra’s work. I keep hoping for more signs of the Turning Point.
I bought it forty years ago, and The Tao of Physics set me on a journey which continues.
I owe Dr Capra more than I can say, I just hunted the book down and will read it again.
I have become interested in the ancient teaching that consciousness, energy and matter are aspects of the same thing, that consciousness facilitates the transformation of energy into matter, and that consciousness itself is fundamental.
Since matter is derived from consciousness, there is sentience in all matter, relative to its situation.
I´d like to see if the Tao resonates with this.
Awesome episode! I noticed a couple of your guests are saying to get money out of politics. I think that’s an important major step. I worry tho that many in our society would stop listening to politicians if they weren’t blatantly corrupt. A lot of people still live in the old worldview where money and technology are everything. I think politicians should have to be barred from all commercial activity, posses no currency, be barred from land ownership, and be practicing ascetics.
Nate, he has so much to offer in this discussion needs to go so much and 20th to discuss how we need to develop biological networks and natural networks feel like you barely scratch the surface of everything he has to offer. Maybe you need to have them back as quickly as possible this is such a critical piece of the puzzle that we need to explore.
When Capra refers to the huge swings he’s witnessed in just the last fifty years, it’s very Hegelian. We grapple, almost violently shifting from one extreme to another, all the while struggling to embrace the nuanced wisdom of ‘the middle way’ (recognising that is used in different ways across time a philosophical contexts).
That was amazing! I’d love to hear a discussion between him, Schmachtenberger and Vanessa Andreotti! ❤❤❤
Simply great
I connected with this podcast, which is becoming more rear the older I become. Finding connectivity with others is nearly impossible, so this is proof for me it's not as bad as I thought...
I wrote a lot of letters to The Economist (Cheap Cloud) about their attachment to economic growth. Kate Raworth's "Donut Economics" is a good systems view of a balanced economy.
People are treating their children like the farmers treat the cattle and chickens in CAFOS, packed in and medicated, industrialized and streamlined for economical models
Too good!!!
Delightful! Thanks Nate. I read TToP as a sprout in the 80s - a elegant bridge between Alan Watts' "The Book" (wishy-washy fun) and Feynman's "QED" -just-calculate.
Oh this is going to be a good one!
Problem with genetic change and evolution is that people interpret "Random" as "Rare" and "Mutation" as some noticeable difference that either helps or hinders the individual.
Random = no noticeable pattern. It's all over the place.
Mutation = incorrect copying of the DNA. It doesn't have to be different enough to be noticeable.
With one mutation per day (that's one mutation for every 2 trillion copies), it would take 55 years for your body to mess up once on every one of your 20,000 genes.
There's up to 300 million sperm in one ejaculation. Most likely, there's many mutations in every ejaculation.
Often and random mutations keep the variation in a species. Without mutations, species variation would quickly decrease under stable natural selection conditions.
Changes in environmental conditions (aka. natural selection) causes a species to evolve and/or split into one or more different species.
I greatly enjoyed this conversation. I certainly would not count on billionaires having a change of heart. But I'm going to try doing a little more meditation & writing myself.
"Where are the Gandhi's today?"... as an Indian, i can say that talkers/thinkers are put on pedestals instead of the doers getting dirty in the work to change the systems
I've got his first two books, The Tao of Physics and The Turning Point. It is incredible how old they are, yet the learnings are still immeasurable. Maybe the best author to introduce people to real Systems thinking, not this modern systematic, bullet points thinking.
I would love to add Richard Dawkins to this talk (another one I like really much, although they have different approaches to life)!
Interconnectiveness is the reality. Our economic reality doesn’t reflect physical reality. It’s gross consumption, economic efficiency and private ownership. What’s missing is the restorative and life giving element.
Great show. Listening to this my weird mind started thinking, you ought to have best selling author Margaret Atwood on your show. Her Madd Adam trilogy is a distopian look at the poly-crisis. Well, distopian, depending on your perspective. A group of greenies manages to survive a global pandemic by integrating an ecological religion, practical survival skills, and science into their daily lives. It is in a fantasy, sci-fi genre, but also a satire of our present corporate culture of growth at any cost.
Interesting, as a system thinker, I agree with this, wealth is about power and until they change their view of potential growth, the earth will eventually force change...
Just get constantly exposed to all kinds of different topics/subjects/people and their opinions, make sure to cultivate a general curiousity about anything from A to Z and get at least basic understanding in all these different areas and arenas, even intellectually challenging ones... make sure to always pause in between, take sufficient time to take in the input, reflect upon it, introspect and think about all these.. try to find similarities, connect the dots, build & enhance your mental model and afterwards try to apply new ideas incoming regularly on that mental model to further enhance/refine/shape it... and then go out again and repeat the same over and over again --> this is how anyone can become a systems thinker naturally and inherently and sees the environment/world/universe as what it is..
I’m lucky to get three species of bird with Merlin in my back garden. Riches indeed Nate!
There are studies that show that cities actually have a wider variety of birds than suburbs! I live in a city and iMerlin has detected dozens of birds during my walks in nearby parks. Isn’t that something! Very counterintuitive.
Fantastic conversation! thanks, Nate
30:00 The work of Michael Levin shows that this understanding of biological development is still too limited. There are lots of things happening that cannot be understood in terms of the genome. His team is demonstrating this experimentally and has good evidence (e.g. two-headed planaria) that the environment is an essential aspect of the development of the organism, not simply a canvas the gene expresses itself onto.
I love what Capra has said about qualities of "aliveness" (was it: the dissolution of differentiation? I've got to go back and take some notes on that).
Capra said it was the spirit.
@bellakrinkle9381 ah, thanks yes, I believe he said that also in the same few minutes there
Truly captivating talk Nate. One of the best, eloquent and we'll spoken guests you've had on. He knows how to tell a story!
At 34:00 Nate asks, "So is it possible that we could have culture wide or even
in pockets such a radical shift in perception as you describe in the system's view of
life."
The counterculture had these radical shifts in perception and was well on the way to building this new world from 1966-1970. I know this because I was part of it. What happened was that federal, state and local governments - from Nixon on down - adopted an integrated campaign of quashing this new world. The Army, National Guard, state troopers and every police force in the country crushed us into bloody little hippie radical meatballs. Some of us surived intact; others sold out and became willing accomplices in the System; while others deteriorated into shattered husks that still live under bridges and in vacant lots.
Here's a little advice for young activists and others who are still trying to build community. Be careful. Develop the mental toughness to be resilient. Most of all, don't quit.
Erm... I don't always think "in language". Sometimes I actually have some difficulties in finding the words to express to another person what I was thinking. So I believe thoughts are abstract (i feel mine as "clouds", as "visualizations", I could say, but not with words at first). Then I need to organize my thoughts to "translate" them into words if I want to write them, or talk about them to another person. This is specifically a problem I have with Wittgenstein (although I love his "idea streaming" - term that in my head looked like something as a river of words gushing down from the image of his face, and it took me about some time to come up with words to put it to a term). I don't think with language at first. This is a second moment of the process.
We are metal shavings, coming inexorably closer. When we collide ❤✌️❤
50:50 '...I'm so rich...' rich in birds is real quality-of-life rich.
At 28:40 “Descent through modification”
Thank you for the beautiful content. Remember the rough quote to the effect that liberal democracy rides on the back of carbon pulse. Do you think this type of academia, research also rides on it too? But for it, don't you think humans will be too busy working away of our lives without philosophizing too much?
🙏🌞